121. Being an empath with Michelle Rowihab

In this episode, we have Michelle Rowihab, a mindset coach specializing in Highly Sensitive Persons (HSPs) and empaths. Michelle, a trauma-informed certified life coach, shares her insights on navigating the world as an empath and offers valuable advice on setting boundaries and reclaiming one's authentic self.

Tune in to explore the beauty and strength of sensitivity and discover how to harness it for personal and collective growth.

Chapters:

01:47 - Why is it important to celebrate sensitivity?
02:52 - Michelle Rowihab's journey
04:52 - Is high sensitivity the same as an empath?
06:39 - How do you know if you're an empath?
07:42 - What are the biggest challenges as an empath?
10:23 - Where to start if you identify yourself as a narcissist or codependent
13:27 - How do you know if you met a narcissist or if you're in a relationship with a narcissist?
16:25 - What's the first step to step out of a narcissist relationship?
18:37 - How do you protect yourself as an empath?
21:04 - Michelle's free resource
26:20 - Last message to all highly sensitive individuals
27:43 - Outro

Michelle's Free Resource: click here

Know more about Michelle's work at:
www.michellethemindsetcoach.com

Connect  on her social media account:
Instagram: @michelle_themindsetcoach

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Transcript

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Hi, it's Frida Kabo. I've had some great conversations with awesome people. And I thought, why keep the conversations in the archive, I want to share them with you. So here is one of the conversations from the Sensitive Success Summit. Enjoy. Welcome to the Sensitive Success Podcast, where we explore the unique challenges and opportunities that comes with being a sensitive changemaker in today's world. The I'm your host, Frida Kabo, and I have spent the last decade recreating my life. I moved from Sweden to New Zealand and now live in the beautiful bush with my husband and two kids, homeschooling and creating a life and business that works for me with the help of my sensitivity and support others to do the same. I'm excited to share conversations with experts, thought leaders, and fellow sensitive people who also see the world through the lens of sensitivity. Thank you so much for being here because it means that you're creating sensitive success too, which is precisely what the world needs. Let's get started. The E in Elaine Aaron's DOS acronym for highly sensitive people stands for empathy and emotional reactivity. In this conversation, we are focused on thing on what it means to be an empath. And to our help, we have Michelle, where we have. Michelle is the mindset coach for HSPs and empaths. She's a trauma informed certified life coach and mindset coach, and has helped hundreds of sensitive souls go from feeling stuck in cycles of toxic relationships to stepping into their calling as natural healers. Welcome, Michelle. Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here. I'm so excited to have you here. So welcome to the Sensitive Success Summit. Tell us first, why do you think it's important to come together and celebrate sensitivity like this? Oh, I, I'm a true believer that highly sensitive people and empaths are, can be the big change makers of this world. And the moment we start to really understand and see the value in our sensitivities, And, and heal anything that's kind of preventing us from fully stepping into our natural sensitivities. Then the more we can step into our calling in life and create change in the world, whether it's, you know, just to the people around us in our immediate surroundings, as well as bring joy to our own lives, or if it's greater change. And. And not enough highly sensitive people really step into that calling. So this is why I feel it's so important for us to really understand our sensitivities and see the value in it and heal ourselves so that we can bring out our sensitivities in, in the most beautiful ways. Yeah. I love that. That's why we're here and talking about this. So yeah. Tell us a bit more about yourself and let us know you and your journey and how you come to work with sensitives and empaths. So my personal journey, I, I found out that I was, uh, an empath originally. This was about over 10 years ago and then I started to understand what being a highly sensitive person is and read, you know, Book by Dr. Elaine Aaron and things all came together for me. So like most highly sensitive people, since I was very, very young, I always felt different and, um, I'm an introverted, highly sensitive person. So I was always very quiet, very sensitive. I also grew up in quite a lot of. Chaotic environments, both at home and in school, really, I never really fit in and I was always very intuitive and very in tune with other people's feelings and in tune with other people's needs and and all of that. So, What that meant kind of growing up in a, in chaotic environments was that I was, I became a bit of a caretaker and an emotional caretaker. And a lot of highly sensitive people do find themselves stepping into that role because of their kind of intuitive, uh, abilities and care towards other people. So that's kind of my background. And of course in school, I always felt like I didn't fit in and I was bullied for being different and I didn't really understand who I was. And all of that. So finding out that I was a highly sensitive person was extremely validating. I think like most HSPs out there, it's, it was extremely validating to really understand that there isn't anything wrong with me and that there is actually a lot of beauty in my sensitivities. Yeah, I think a lot of us can relate to your story. So how do you see the, the relationship between highly sensitive and empath? Is it the same or is it, how do you see that? For me, the word highly sensitive person allows us to really break down the neurological trait, right? To really understand what is going on in our brains and why it is that. We are made differently and it just so happens that even in, you know, the animal kingdom, there are, there are species who, there are certain, you know, animals just as well as humans who are more sensitive than others. And there are great benefits to that. It means that we're more cautious, you know, we don't jump into things too quickly. We process things very deeply. Being an empath takes things a step further in that. So highly sensitive people have deep empathy. Empaths. embody the, that, the other people's feelings and, and have a higher level of intuitive kind of feelings within, within themselves. So on the scale of sort of high sensitivity, if you think about it, you've got highly sensitive people and empaths are the very, very extreme scale. Yeah. So my mission is, involves helping highly sensitive people and empaths step into their, their calling as natural healers by healing themselves. Because like, In my own story, a lot of highly sensitive people and empaths have experienced a lot of sort of chaos or not feeling accepted, not feeling like they fit in or even, you know, I've been subjected to abuse, emotional abuse, especially so, and have developed certain tendencies, especially in relation to codependency tendencies, which I'm happy to explain in a minute as well, which really prevents them from. being their true authentic selves. But once they do heal themselves and heal the trauma of their past, then they can really step into that. And very much like my personal story, to be honest, I overcame all of these things, um, after doing a lot of self work and became a healer myself. And I encourage other people to, to really step into whatever purpose is calling out for them. But first. It involves taking care of themselves above everything. Yeah, definitely. So how do you know if you're an empath? How do you know if you're an empath? If you're an empath, you're a deep feeler. You're extremely intuitive. You recognize other people's feelings. You have those moments where you, um, are able to feel what they're feeling without words being spoken. You sense what they're And other people's energy. And yeah, and I feel that there is also a lot of confusion between. Uh, being an empath and being a codependent. So for clarity, an empath does feel what other people feel, but a codependent is a person who feels responsible for what other people feel. So there is a difference there just to kind of define that. Um, and that's why a lot of empaths do become codependents, but empaths, yeah, they're deeply, deeply intuitive and they have a big gift. So, um, and that, that gift deserves to be uncovered and, and they deserve to really fully live into their authentic selves. Yeah, so I agree. What is the biggest challenges that you, you see in your clients and you see in embed? First of all, it's really understanding who we are as highly sensitive people, especially in a world that has led us to believe that being sensitive is wrong or, you know, or is weak or worse that it's caused by trauma, which it's not. And even till this day, unfortunately, I hear a lot of empaths and highly sensitive people being gaslighted, even, even by their therapists and mental health professionals saying. You know, there's no such thing as being an empath or highly sensitive person that you're just traumatized. And that really is heartbreaking. So we, we work on really rewiring all of those beliefs so that they can understand what is the core of my identity, which many of them have become very disconnected to, especially if they are. Survivors of abuse where they've been, you know, gaslighted to believe things that they're, you know, that are not true about themselves. So really getting them to reconnect into their true identity and connect to their sense of self and, and also heal from the abuse that, that they may have endured, um, all of those. People who, you know, who, who've kind of gotten into their heads and all of those stories that they're replaying in their minds about who they might be and, um, That are getting in the way and sabotaging their relationships and, and unfortunately, you know, drawing them into toxic relationships much of the time. So one of the biggest challenges that those who come to me face is, is being in toxic relationships and finding this repeated cycle of reentering toxic relationships or feeling stuck in, in those types of relationships, narcissistic relationships, especially, and finding it difficult to break free from those patterns. And that is something that you have experience in as well? On a personal level as well, and I've, yeah, I've overcome it and, um, I think there is a lot that we can learn from books, but at the end of the day, if we haven't experienced something like this, especially when it comes to narcissistic abuse, then it can be very difficult to understand. well, how it feels to be in it first and foremost, as well as how to actually overcome it out of those trauma bonds and, and intense attachments to people who are just not healthy for us and, and abusive to us. So, yeah. Yeah. If someone is in that situation right now, if they're narcissistic or if they just feel like they're codependent, where, where can they start to, to break free from those bonds? First of all, it's really recognizing what's really going on because the reason why empaths and highly sensitive people get more drawn into these relationships is because they are givers. An empath or a highly sensitive person is a natural giver, but when they have When they develop codependency tendencies for survival, so for self protection in an environment, usually growing up, or even sometimes in school, trying to fit in, they learn how to people please. They learn how to adapt themselves and their character to suit the person that they think the other person wants them to be. So they really don't really know their true selves. And when you don't know your true self, you will enter relationships where you will willingly adapt to whatever the person wants you to be. Whilst you continue to over give to them, which a codependent does, so you give and give and give, and of course narcissistic people love to take and take and take, and that's why they magnetise towards each other. And so really first and foremost, yeah, understanding what are those patterns that are drawing me in. Because we don't want to change being highly sensitive. It's a beautiful gift, and this is why we have to recognize that is not what needs healing. What needs healing are the codependency tendencies that are drawing us in, that were developed as survival mechanisms that draw us in towards places that are not safe for us, not emotionally safe or physically safe. For us, so recognizing what are those tendencies and of course it doesn't mean taking blame for anything that happened to us because what happened to us was never our fault. But ultimately, if we don't take action ourselves, who will? So it's our job to make our lives better and make sure that we keep ourselves safe. Um, especially if one did when you were younger, right? So, um, understanding those tendencies and then learning how to, a bit of a big part of the process I lead my clients through is really starting to reconnect to their sense of selves because codependents lose any touch with their sense of selves and it might sound surprising, but a lot of empaths and highly sensitive people come to me and say, I'm wondering if I'm a narcissist myself, because that's what I'm being told, and that's what narcissists do best. They project onto others to make them believe that they're the problem. I'm very intuitive myself, so I'd be able to tell if a person is a narcissist or not, and it's very clear usually that they're not, and they're just in the state of self questioning their identity because they don't know who they are, and they've been gaslighted so much, and manipulated, emotionally manipulated, and controlled by other people. So, so a big part of the process. Um, aside understanding the patterns is starting to heal those codependency tendencies and reconnect to your sense of self and sense of knowing in who you are. I've heard that if you ask if you're a narcissist, then you probably aren't. Is that correct? Absolutely. Yeah. They're not self aware enough. Yeah. They don't self reflect like that. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah, so how do you know if you, you meet a narcissist or if you're in a relationship with a narcissist? In the beginning stages of narcissistic abuse, there's a lot of, so this is the idealization stage. It's what we call it, which is the, where they start to. Love bomb you. So that's where they give you lots of gifts or make you feel special, make you, put you on a pedestal to make you believe that, you know, you've finally found someone who can love you. So if you come from a background where you've never really had that consistent love, and you've always tried to, as a codependent, you've always tried to prove that you deserve love and work for that love. Because that love was conditional, maybe by a parent, maybe you had to try and please them or, or do something in order to get that love and validation from them. And in the idealization stage, they will make you feel really special because you've, you've, you've, you crave that, you've never had that consistent love or unconditional love. You'll be attracted to that kind of love bombing phase where you're made to feel special. And ultimately that's their goal. In that first stage of, of narcissistic abuse, their goal is to draw you in enough so that you can fully trust them, right? So a codependent will be someone who dives into things very quickly and fully trusts very quickly because they crave that kind of love, which puts the narcissist in a great position because by then that's it, you've, they've trapped you, right? That you're under their control and they can start to move on to the next stage, which is, you know, Devaluation. So that's when they start to emotionally abuse you by controlling you, by manipulating you, by gaslighting you, making you believe that you are things that you're not, really confusing your mind to believe things that are not true about yourself. And that's where all the self questioning comes from of, am I really at fault? Are they getting angry because of something I've done? Is there something I could have done better? And then for an empath or highly sensitive person, the reaction will be, well, maybe I can fix it by trying to love them even more, right? So they think that they will heal, they will heal the situation or fix the situation by loving them more because they will also empathize with the fact that the narcissist might have had a very traumatic past. Which the narcissist will also use as a method of manipulation as well to, to get you to feel sorry for them so that you can stay and try harder. So that's the kind of what the cycle of abuse looks like, but in terms of the qualities of a narcissist, they will usually lack empathy. They might be very good at showing that they have empathy, but it's not, there's no depth to it. It's just cognitive. They tend to gaslight and devalue you. Yeah, they, most of all, really, they don't take accountability for their actions and behaviors. And really, we cannot grow with a person who doesn't take accountability for their behaviors. Um, if someone is listening to this and feel like, yeah, that's me, I'm, I'm in that relationship. What is your first step that they can do? So every situation is different in that for some people it's, um, it's, uh, I shouldn't say easier. And I don't know if that's the right word, but easier to leave than others. I mean, some people have been stuck in it for a long time, uh, and they may have children with a narcissist or maybe it's your parent. Or, um, or even sometimes your child. So it can really depend on the situation, but the most important thing is to recognize what you need. So, like I said earlier, it really does come down to, and this kind of healing journey is about reconnecting to your sense of self, learning who you are. Because if you're a codependent, you'll probably not know what you want out of life, who you are. Uh, or what you even like, the simple things of making small decisions, like what restaurant do you like? What food do you like? You know, like it, they, they struggle with the simplest of decisions. So this discovery is really about learning who you are, what you look, the things that you need above all reconnecting to your, into your body when you've been out of your body for so long and reconnecting to your needs. And a good way to do that, or two good ways to do that is learning self regulation. So learning how to have moments to reconnect into your body and feel into your body to understand what it's needing, what it's wanting in that moment, even when someone else tells you something totally opposite. Uh, so recognizing your reality as opposed to their reality. And secondly, setting boundaries to give yourself that space of. To allow yourself to, to recognize those things within yourself. Um, because if we're constantly bombarded with someone who's gaslighting us, then it's inevitable that it will affect us. So setting boundaries gives us that energetic space to reconnect into who we are as human beings. Yeah. And when we talk about being an empath, usually hear that you should protect yourself and that you should put up boundaries and yeah, how do you, how do you see that? How do you protect yourself from the outside world? So with boundaries, they come in all natures. So first of all, there's setting boundaries with ourselves and there's setting boundaries with other people. I mean, they all come from ourselves and our needs in the first place, but, um, having a boundary with ourself might mean. You know, not overbooking ourselves, not overbooking our schedule, for example. Right. Um, so in the instance of, you know, having someone narcissistic in our lives, it might mean making sure that we know how long we are able to tolerate that behavior without it being absorbed. Um, because anyone who is around this person 24 7 will end up infected by it. So what is your tolerance threshold for a highly sensitive person? It will be a lot, probably shorter than others, but the highly sensitive people tend to not be able to recognize it. It seems that non HSPs are a lot better at having boundaries and just running away or not running away, but actually, you know, knowing their knowing their limits because they, they don't have that fear of how other people might feel. Whereas highly sensitive people are more in tune with however people feel and don't want them to feel hurt or upset and all of that. So when you start to go into that train of mind, you're starting to think more about what other people are feeling and needing than what you need. So really taking a moment to think of. In isolation of thinking about, okay, how long am I able to tolerate that sort of behavior for without feeling like I'm going to lose myself in it, um, which might be an hour a week or an hour a month or an hour a year, you know, that's the sort of boundary with yourself that I would recommend. And when it comes to boundaries with others, learning how to communicate your needs. So once you've established what your needs are. Learn how to communicate them. Say what you're okay with and what you're not okay with. And if they persist, follow through. Most people forget to follow through. If you're saying that you're not going to accept that behavior and are going to leave if it continues, then leave. If, if they, if it really does continue. Otherwise, You're exposing yourself to an environment where, you know, that is not healthy for you and no one will take your boundaries seriously if you don't take them seriously either. Yeah, definitely. And you also have a free resource to share about this work, the boundary work. Tell us a bit more about that and what that entails. Yeah. So I have a free resource, a free video training on my four secrets to setting solid boundaries and actually sticking to them. So, uh, if you don't know where to start, that is a good place to start. So this applies to whether, you know, what, whatever type of relationship it is of whatever nature, learning how to connect to yourself and your needs and your boundaries is the best place to start. So, um, yeah, so check that video training out on my four secrets to setting solid boundaries. Stick and actually sticking to them. Sounds perfect for what we're talking about. We'll put the link here and yeah, go check it out. So it's really easy to get stuck in the pitfalls of being an empath, but what are the strengths? with being an empath. The strengths are what we want to reconnect into, right? And if you kind of think of us as this, you know, at the core of our beings, as all of this beautiful gift of connecting to other people and having this, this deep ability to connect to other people and, and, uh, you know, ultimately help other people if that's what we want to do. And as many empaths do enjoy doing, you know, Having this deep inner world and deep connection to people and, and being highly creative and being able to see the little things out there in the world and nature that other people can't see. There is so much beauty in the way that we perceive the world and the way that we can feel music right down to our bones. And there is so much beauty in all of that. Once we are able to shed all of those outer layers of that, you know, that we've learned over time of all the, you know, the traumatic events that have built once we're able to shed those, then we can really expose the, the truth and who we are in our authentic selves as highly sensitive people who have a lot of beauty to, to share. feel into and, and there is a lot of joy in that. And I know that a lot of people don't believe me if they are early on in their journey, but once we are able to shed those layers that are kind of blinding us from seeing all of that, then we can really tap into that gift and not only experience joy on a deeper level, but also experience the joy of, of being around others and connections and. and the world that surrounds us. I love that. Yes. So much strength in that and so much beauty in that, as you say. So if, if someone is listening and they can't really connect to that, where, where can they start? Where can they start? First of all, it's okay to not exactly know what it might look like at the end of your journey. I mean, that's what kind of makes the beauty of the journey so wonderful to go on, but a good place to start is. To start grounding yourself in your reality. Um, I mean, it might mean seeking help, or if you're not ready for that, then there are smaller resources, you know, like, like the one that we just shared that, that can help you start doing that, learning how to establish boundaries and give yourself the care that, that you really deserve. Yeah, so, so important. And I like what you say about a journey. It is, it really is a journey and really just taking one step in front of the other to figure things out because there's not going to be a magic button somewhere that says, Oh, this, this is me. This is who I am. This is what I'm going to do. That's the right answer. So yeah, definitely a journey and just enjoy that. As long as there, I mean, you don't need to know exactly what the picture will look like at the end, right? But as long as there's that little bit of hope and knowing that there is something better ahead. Um, I mean, think about it. What this world needs most above all is empathy. And we are the people who have the highest levels of that. The more we can share that and encourage others to become more vulnerable and connected into their sensitivities, because ultimately, everyone, or most people, except for narcissists and sociopaths, do have empathy. And showing how, um, okay it is to be connected to your sensitivity and vulnerability, really can, can change the world that surrounds us, and it really is everything that the world needs right now. Yeah, definitely. And I love what you said in the beginning about trauma, that like knowing what needs fixing if it's not your high sensitivity that needs fixing. It's not. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, and this is where so many people become confused. Every day I get messages and comments saying, I want to be less sensitive. Uh, and I always say it's not, you know, someone yesterday said to me, uh, I want to turn down my sensitivities. And I always say your sensitivity doesn't need turning down your empowerment and your boundaries need turning up. We don't need to have less sensitivities. We need to be more empowered to protect our sensitivities and protect ourselves to feel safe. Yes, love that. Definitely. Is there anything else that you would like to add and say to the wonderful sensitives that are listening? There is potential for each and every one of you out there. Whether you believe it right now or not, there is nothing that makes you different to me. And if I and my clients have been able to work through this, from places of trauma, and being highly sensitive, and us highly sensitive people, let's face it, we find, You know, it's even harder for us to cope through difficult environments and chaotic environments. And if we've done it, then really so can you. It's just the process and knowing the process and having the right support, uh, and validation that, that you are needing right now. So there, there is a way, even if you don't know the exact way right now, that's okay. But then just, just knowing that there is a way. Um, just as there was for us and hold on to that hope. Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you for this conversation and sharing your wisdom and yeah, go check out the free resource about boundaries and yeah, thank you so much, Michelle, for being here, sharing this with us and doing the work that you do in the world. It's so important. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And, um, yeah, let's empower sensitivity. This is everything that the world needs, and we can all do it together. So thank you. That's why we're here. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Sensitive Success. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and share it with someone who could benefit from this message and come over and connect with me on Instagram @fridakabo and remember, sensitivity is neither good or bad. It's what we make of it. Embrace your sensitivity and use it to create sensitive success your way.