Cerian: Hi there and welcome to the Natural Resources Wales podcast miniseries on flood risk management. My name is Cerian Gingell and I work here at Natural Resources Wales. In this series you’ll hear from the people who work together to reduce the risk of flooding to communities in Wales. This will give you an overview of what flood risk is, what we’re doing to manage it in Wales and what impact the climate emergency is having on flood risk in Wales both now and in the future.
Hello and welcome to episode 6 of the Natural Resources Wales Flood Risk Management mini-series! Today I’m joined by Tim Owen who heads up our North Wales hydrometry and telemetry team. Welcome Tim, and thanks so much for joining us! To start off I think it would be good to hear a little bit about your background. Have you studied anything particular with this role in mind or if not how did you end up in flood risk management here at Natural Resources Wales?
Tim: Ok, so directly studying for this subject, no. I started a long, long time ago working for Welsh Water Authority back in 1982 and I’ve worked at the various predecessor bodies up to now. So mainly the National Rivers Authority for a seven-year period, the Environment Agency before we became the Environment Agency Wales and then Natural Resources Wales since 2013. So predominantly I’m from a water resources background working in hydrometry then moving across to work in various roles within water resources side of the business as was. Main part of that was doing some water resource licensing inspection work so at that point I became very familiar with the area of North Wales visiting various places, sites, organisations and farms, before moving on to a licensing role. Mainly issuing abstraction licenses on behalf of the organisation to the North Wales area. My Team Leader role started when the regulatory water resources team was created and that mainly looked after the licensing side and catchment abstraction management strategies that was in place before what was in the Environment Agency at the time, with the moving around of team leaders, shall we say. So that was predominantly done with the blessing of the then area manager who was keen to allow various people to gain experience of team leading. So I was involved in that and managed two environment teams, the Gwynedd team and the Conwy and Anglesey team, and I did a little with the north area environmental planning team, before returning to hydrometry to lead the team which I have been in since 2010 to date.
Cerian: So I suppose then that gave you a good, rounded background and it seems you worked yourself up from the bottom really up to where you’re at today therefore goes to show that it doesn’t have to always be a formal educational route. There’s lots of different career paths to come into a role like this isn’t there? So I think the next logical thing to ask would be what does your team do? So can you tell us a little about what is hydrometry and telemetry?
Tim: Well hydrometry and telemetry have been put together for many a year now. They predominantly were apart in previous reorganisations that was passed, but hydrometry in theory is the measurement of the water hydrological cycle so that’s the general basic way that we would describe hydrometry. Telemetry is using the systems to bring back information from the sites we capture information and data from and bringing it back into servers to be utilised internally within the organisation.
Cerian: So I guess if we’re putting it in Lehmann’s terms the hydrometry part of it is basically tracking the rain that comes from the sky and following the cycle I suppose.
Tim: That’s correct, yes.
Cerian: And the telemetry side of it is data that’s created from various machinery that we have that measures that water cycle then.
Tim: That’s correct, yes, and as I say it’s advanced a lot over the years and the telemetry aspect has become a lot more critical and prominent in the way the organisation has evolved. The historical hydrometrical data collection was all side charts and they had to be changed. It’s just the advanced technology that’s given us what we have to date really but that’s the basics really, to measure rainfall, river levels and groundwater levels, which are the three main components of our work generally.
Cerian: So how do we turn those into something that gets used in flood risk management?
Tim: Well in flood risk management obviously one of the things we have to do is we have to make sure that all the information we collect is for a specific purpose, the purpose mainly of data capture is that people in other teams can look at that data, use that data and manage it and use it in preparation of assisting with existing assets, the forecasting of rainfall, rents and the impacts of all of that really – therefore a mix of things really.
Cerian: So what do the telemetry sites look like then? What are they?
Tim: Basically we have a network in Wales which covers rainfall, river levels and flow and groundwater in sites. In total the telemetry aspects is something you don’t see as it’s captured by satellite geo-seven technology or with BT lines which brings back to the servers – two servers we have, both in South Wales, that manage the telemetry sides of things. In terms of information and data, the information is also captured on logging equipment as well and what’s happened over the last many a year really but is more prominent now is that we try and ensure that we have more than one set of equipment that captures data so that we dual sensor the sites so the information we collect has a back-up really and it’s become more important over the last several years with the changing climate we’re in for that to be the case. The telemetry side is what it does and it gives live information for those who use it and again very much so on the flood side of things with the warning and informing teams and any standby duty officer which needs to monitor river level has to utilise this system so it is pivotal in our role as a service for hydrometry and telemetry across Wales.
Cerian: And you’ve git what I think is called the hydrometric network. Can you tell us a little about that?
Tim: The network as we call it is the number of sites that is made up across Wales, we operate two teams, North and South, and we have a national team who manage the telemetry system and quality assurance of the data we capture. So in terms of Wales itself as a total we have 253 rain gages, 347 of level of flow sites and 139 groundwater sites so the data from these sites are collected by our systems and we process and archive it for internal Natural Resources Wales use. It does feed into various other uses as well and it plays an important part in providing information internally and externally as we have a river rainfall online service where members of the public can access and verify and check what they need to look at really from across Wales. That’s obviously being put out there that provides a lot more information now than we’ve ever been able to and that’s as good as the information that’s updated through our systems really. So it can be during flood events in particular where information is updated more frequently so gives more accurate information for the people who wants to look at it and observe it.
Cerian: That makes sense. I think we’ll put a link for the river levels online in the show notes for this episode and show notes for these episodes as well. It sounds like there’s a lot of complicated technology at play so how does that help us to manage flood risk in Wales? I know we’ve touched a little there on the teams that use the systems or the information that comes out of it but how does that feed in to managing flood risk?
Tim: Well as flood risk management as a whole we have different teams who does different things. We have our modelling and mapping teams who have been mentioned in previous episodes of this podcast, they use the data to update the flood risk maps. Flood forecasting teams have become a lot more prominent in the last ten years and is evolving. They prepare and plan and rune models where flooding may occur, during ongoing events they provide useful ongoing information and updates which allow teams like the warning and informing teams and duty officers who are on standby rotas to be able to make assessments and monitor the river and rainfall and its then information that’s used in conjunction with our telemetry system to issue flood alerts and warnings to members of the public who live in these areas to help them understand and prepare for any flooding which affect their areas and properties. There’s a lot there, obviously the data also helps us to produce other things as well where as soon as we’ve had a big event there’s usually a debriefing process where we understand how floods have happened, developed and how we can then continue to protect those communities in the future.
Cerian: It’s sort of using it as a learning tool also, I suppose?
Tim: Yeah, it’s definitely used for that purpose and without this information that is pivotal in informing the going forwards of things really. Obviously getting the UpToDate information with the rainfall and accuracy of the forecasts are assessed. Obviously there’s a lot more information and data to be able to have to convey and deal with for this to be able to put in place and for the public to understand what NRW is needing to issue.
Water resources is also another element of our work as well. Obviously it’s at the opposite end to flooding but it can also be quite important during periods of drought, which is the other end of the spectrum really to make sure there’s enough water in oyr rivers and streams to support fisheries, wildlife and ecology. Last year for example was a classic example when we went from a pretty wet winter with flooding to a pretty dry summer where we were in potential drought, so the extremes are very much part of what we’re about as well.
Cerian: Yeah and so you don’t really have a quite time because its busy in the winter because of the heavy rainfall in the winter and its busy in the summer too because of the drought so you kind of span all of it really and it’s a lot to keep you on your toes.
You mentioned there that you use the data you collect to measure rainfall and river levels and that is a way to track how flooding events develop over time and I would think that is ever more important with the climate change predictions. Is climate change already impacting on your work or if not do you see it having an impact as time goes on?
Tim: Yes, most definitely climate change is having an impact on our work. We are having more extreme rainfall events, river levels reaching their highest levels. Over recent years that has been apparent across the country really both in the north and south, and mid, so obviously with the onset of climate change it looks as if that’s becoming more of the normal situation really than what we’ve been used to. So its definitely changing which happens across Wales really and that’s what we’re seeing.
Cerian: Absolutely, and across the globe too. So I guess that’s why its important that you have this data and that you can track these things to be able to use as evidence to make the necessary improvements to the various systems that the systems your data feeds into. There’s a bit of a continuous process there where you don’t just make the improvement once but its more of a cycle of monitoring, analysing and improving..
Tim: Yeah, that’s absolutely right...
Cerian: So what do you think the answer is then? How do you manage the impact of climate change on your work?
Tim: So I think it already means a higher demand on our team and our staff time. We need to ensure we have the best and most appropriate equipment to allow us to analyse and measure the hydrological data we collect and of course we need to look forward and plan ahead. Currently there is a review going on across Wales of our hydrometric sites and this is being done so that we can identify the sites that are most critical to our flood warning and forecasting services, but are also vulnerable to damage or failure during extreme weather and we’ve had evidence of that happening when big events and storm events can wipe out sites that are so important to us. That’s something we have experienced, but obviously with more extreme weather it comes with it more extreme impacts and flooding and our equipment needs to be robust enough and maintained and checked regularly...
Cerian: Because it needs to work correctly when needed…
Tim: It does, yeah. There are times when we have to ensure that, as I said earlier, we need to have more than one way of measuring a site and it gives us more comfort if you like that we’re not pinning all our hope on one instrument. If that fails then we don’t have anywhere to go really, but obviously the changes that we’ve seen over recent years means our network needs to be managed, maintained and be up for the job that it needs to do really.
Cerian: Yeah, absolutely.
Tim: So upgrading our network and making sure our equipment is fit for purpose because we definitely are pivotal in ever aspect as flood risk is managed going forward with our systems. Another thing we are looking at from a climate change perspective, we are looking and work with universities across the UK to develop a flood hydrology roadmap and program and the idea with this is it sets out a vision for flood hydrology the UK for the next 25 years and this roadmap considers multiple sources of inland flooding like flooding from rovers and other sources of rainfall and surface water effects from sewers, groundwaters and reservoirs. So the intention with this roadmap is that it helps us to ensure that across Wales and the whole of the UK in fact that we have methods, standards, tools and data services that are fit for the future and able to deal with a changing climate and extreme river flows, which as I said earlier, we have already been recording and is likely set to continue.
Cerian: Yeah, there’s an awful lot to think about isn’t there and I suppose that its another layer to your work. You have your day-to-day job, but you also have this longer-term strategic approach that ensures climate changes is being factored into everything you do. And I guess all of that, no doubt, keeps your teams very busy.
So before we finish up this episode and I let you get back to that busy work, I’m really interested to know what keep you in this role so what is it that keeps you interested in the work and what is it you find most rewarding about it?
Tim: Well again first and foremost I think I very much enjoy being part of the hydrometry and telemetry area of work as it plays such a pivotal role for the organisation. I enjoy working with the people around very much me and in the team and leading a team that shares the same beliefs and passion about what we do really. Obviously, we work in changing times by adapting and modifying how we work, which in itself, is an ongoing process. It keeps you interested because things are changing continuously but the biggest thing for me is the area that we live in, work and cover you know we’ve got this fantastic country; fantastic environment and I consider myself fortunate that I’m able to work in such an area for the organisation.
Cerian: Yeah, it’s certainly a nice part of the world and if you’re able to be out and about that you recognise that as well that you’re playing your part and doing your bit in making it stay beautiful, well managed, keeping people safe and helping communities that’s got be lovely and really rewarding I would have thought?
Tim: Yes, most definitely.
Well thank you Tim for giving up your time to talk to me today it’s been really interesting to hear all about the work that you do and how its feeding into that bigger picture of managing the risk of flooding in Wales.
I hope you’ve enjoyed this episode if you have any comments or questions, you can contact us on Facebook, twitter or Instagram or by the email address that you can find in the show notes. You’ll also find links to our flood risk management pages where you can view some of the things we’ve talked about here today. Thanks for listening.
