ReligionWise

Religion, Politics, and Vocation - Sarah Trone Garriott

• Institute for Religious and Cultural Understanding • Season 3 • Episode 4

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Every four years Iowa takes its stage in the national spotlight as the United States presidential race starts to heat up. This first opportunity for voters to choose a candidate to run in the national election, the Iowa Caucuses have an outsized place in our political geography. 

In this episode of ReligionWise, State Senator Sarah Trone Garriott and host Chip Gruen discuss many issues at the confluence of religion and politics. From the more diverse electorate than many would expect to Senator Trone Garriott’s unlikely path to state politics, today’s conversation provides context and local flavor to state politics and one politician who strives to make a difference in her own community.

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Chip Gruen:

Welcome to ReligionWise. I'm your host Chip Gruen. One of the central themes that we consider on ReligionWise is a question of religion and public discourse, that is to say, within our public lives, right, not as individuals, in our families in our own communities, but as we live publicly. How do we talk about religion? And it's one of my contentions that we don't really talk about it particularly well, we have this whole dictate that it's not polite to talk about religion and politics. And I'll tell you from extended family conversations throughout my youth, I can attest to the wisdom of that. But it also has a downside, it has a negative consequence. That is that we're not particularly good at talking about religion or politics, leading to disagreement, misunderstanding, fights, and the polarization that we have in our contemporary world. One of the ways in which we might have been remiss on the podcast thus far is that we have not had policymakers. And I am happy that we will be able to remediate that problem today. I'm very happy to welcome Sarah Trone Garriott who is a state senator from Iowa, and she is a trained minister in the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America. And so that dictate about it being impolite to talk about religion and politics, we're going to violate both of those today, and talk about not only religion and politics, but the confluence between the two. I think there are a few things that make our guests today really appropriate to the time one is being in Iowa, going into 2024. We know that there is a presidential election, and that because of the caucus system in Iowa and the calendar, that the population in that State have an out weighted influence on presidential primaries. And so I think thinking a little bit about Iowa about how that state functions about what that population looks like. That's a really interesting project for us right now. I think that's even more the case, because as you'll hear, Senator Trone Garriott has on two separate occasion flipped state senate seat from being held by a Republican member to to herself to a Democratic member. And that had that had to happen twice in two consecutive elections because of redistricting. And we know the kinds of things that can happen in those redistricting situations. I think the other thing that is interesting about Senator Trone Garriott is her vocational path. And she being a Lutheran I think is very comfortable and happy to talk about vocation it is one of those big commonplaces of the Lutheran tradition. But she is someone who never really intended to become a minister, it certainly wasn't a pipeline situation. And then after that, never really intended to become a politician. That was just something that grew organically out of her own experiences and about her desire to be involved in public life. And in fact, I think she would say, to practice the, the tenants of her faith to see that how that faith sort of works out is a part of policy, not something that should be distinct from it. So for both of those reasons, I think that this conversation represents something very different than we've done before. One of the other issues that, you know, I face as as an educator and one of the classes in fact, I just got finished teaching my class on Christian traditions to a group of undergraduates here at Muhlenberg College is misunderstandings or oversimplifications of Christianity or Christian traditions as we like to talk about it in the plural. If I told you that the guest for today is a state senator from Iowa, and in fact, not only a state senator from Iowa, but someone who is a ordained clergy member. I think that you very well might have a lot of preconceptions or prejudices about the type of Christianity that is represented there. Just by sheer demographics and voting patterns and thinking about the way that Iowa has tilted very conservatively and right leaning in recent years. It would not be out of the question, right to imagine that that guest would would similarly be very conservative and right leaning. And one of the things that I find myself having to do when I'm talking about Christianity to people who don't know a lot about Christianity, or at least only know about their varieties of Christianity is talk about the diversity that is present there as well, so that we know that there are Christian groups who will work very hard for a pro life agenda. But it is also the case that we'll have Christian groups who see it as a part of their Christian mysid mission to work very hard for a pro choice agenda. Likewise around sexual and gender diversity or any number of social issues that are the political footballs of the contemporary situation. So with that being said, it's a pleasure to welcome Sarah Trone Garriott onto the podcast, not only for her experiences, and what she can share with us about serving in that legislative role in the 2020s. But also because she represents a kind of progressive Christianity, that is not always what people imagine when they imagine people involved in policy and governance who also happened to be Christian, or it's not what people imagine when they think about someone who sees their faith as a motivating factor for their involvement in policy and governance. And I'm very happy to welcome Sarah Trone Garriott to ReligionWise. Sarah Trone Garriott, thanks for appearing on ReligionWise. We appreciate it.

Sarah Trone Garriott:

Thank you so much.

Chip Gruen:

So, as we just heard in the introduction, you have a lot of titles. You're an ordained Lutheran minister, you serve as the coordinator of interfaith engagement at The Des Moines Area Religious Council Food Pantry Network. And now you're an Iowa State Senator. Can you talk a little bit about your vocational trajectory? How did your career path turn from the pastoral to the political?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

So I never started out wanting to be a minister, or a state legislator. None of that was in my career plan. It just kind of happened. So I was an AmeriCorps VISTA volunteer after college. And I was working for a legal aid program on a domestic violence project. And there were all of these religious issues that kept coming up, specifically how religious communities were not being resources, or even being obstacles for folks trying to leave violent relationships. And so I got very interested in trying to educate these religious leaders about how to do a better job for their communities. And then eventually ended up deciding that I just needed to become one to do the job. A similar thing happened with politics. My state senator invited me to come pray for the daily prayer at the State Senate. And I started paying more attention to what was happening in that chamber in that building, I started getting more involved in advocacy. And while he was a very nice man, I didn't like what I was seeing in his votes in his actions. And so I decided to run against him.

Chip Gruen:

Wow. So that must have been a tough decision.

Sarah Trone Garriott:

Well, it was over several years. So it came about gradually. And the more involved in advocacy I got, the more people I met, who were running for office, helping others run for office. And I realized that it didn't have to be some other kind of person, it actually could be me. And I think that was the same for being a faith leader is I always thought, Oh, that's a different kind of person than who I am and then realized, I had the gifts to actually do that job quite well. And that maybe I could do it better than some folks in the role.

Chip Gruen:

So I want to get to some of your experiences as a, as a legislator, I want to put that on the back burner for a minute, because particularly, we're on the cusp of a presidential election year. Obviously the Iowa caucuses serve an outsized role in that process. And just to give a context for your place within the legislature, your place in the in the State Senate, as well as to help our listeners think a little bit about the political landscape in Iowa more generally. Can you give us a little bit more about what you've seen, as a resident of Iowa, now a legislator in Iowa about what that political context looks like and how it might have changed over the last, I don't know, decade or two.

Sarah Trone Garriott:

So I have lived in Iowa since 2013. So I really only have first hand experience with Iowa over the last 10 years. But everyone knows about the Iowa caucuses. And that is changing pretty dramatically, at least for the Democrats because the party is shifting that around. And so I don't really know what that's going to mean. For Iowa for the Democratic Party. It's just going to be different. But all that focus on the national political scene, the presidential elections, I think it's detracted a little bit from people focusing on what's happening in their local and state government. And so while I'll miss all of the media and all of the candidates and all the opportunities that come with the caucus, I appreciate the opportunity to remind folks, hey, a lot of the really important decisions are being made at the state level. And we see that with some federal decisions, kicking issues down to the states. And for years, the Republican Party has really been focused on local elections, state elections. And that's something that all people all parties need to be thinking about, because that's where it's happening. So especially in the last few years, a lot of my neighbors are becoming more aware of the really consequential issues, and sometimes very divisive issues that are being decided at the state level. And they have a lot of power, and they have a lot of access to state level politics. So I have been very focused on how do I help people get involved, be informed, use their power, because you can make a big difference. Because our state government is so right here, it's very accessible to the people of Iowa.

Chip Gruen:

And it's my understanding that that over time, the population of Iowa as a whole, or at least the way that that has resulted in in election results, that there's been more of a push, I don't know if you'd say, towards conservative leanings, or if you take towards the Republican Party, but Iowa has shifted a little bit in the last generation or so is that fair to say?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

Yeah, so Iowa is a state that voted for Obama, and then turned around and voted for Trump. And I think it has, you know, it's definitely there's been some shifting party registrations, the rural areas are kind of emptying out. And we're seeing more folks living in our metro areas. We just had redistricting in '22. So that means that things are a little bit more fair now. But for years, they were not so fair, the rural communities really had an outsized impact, outsized impact on state elections. And so I think it has a little bit more to do with, Iowans just don't like politicians necessarily. They want people who feel authentic to them, they want folks that they can connect with that there's a story that somehow they, they can really, you know, just feel inspired by. And, you know, for both of those candidates, there was something there that folks resonated with. And, you know, you know who Trump is, I mean, he is authentically who he is. And I think a lot of people really appreciated that. But, you know, folks want somebody that they have that emotional connection to. And so I think it's possible to have other candidates representing different values who resonate with folks. And I feel like that's what I've tried to do in my candidacy, and in my work is connect with people first, and help them, you know, feel like, I'm accessible, I'm present to them. I'm a real person. And I think that's what they appreciate.

Chip Gruen:

So let's think a little bit more about your your place in all of this in that larger context of not only Iowa politics, but the landscape of the country generally. You won your Senate seat, your state Senate seat in 2020. More than that, you were the only candidate statewide in Iowa to turn a previously red state blue. So given that you were swimming against the stream here, I mean, Iowa went for Trump in 2020. So you were this was split ticket voting. Can you tell us about what your message was to your constituents that, you know, made them split that ticket that allowed you to sort of swim upstream and turn a Republican district into one that was happy to vote for a Democrat?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

So I've actually flipped two districts in the last four years. So in 2020, I ran and was one of the few I think, maybe the only to flip a district in that year. And then the redistricting process meant that I had to move a little further west and run against the state senate president that year. And I won that election as well. And for both of those elections, I mean, the timing was really right. The political balance was shifting in my favor, though, in both races, it wasn't a slam dunk, and it was going to be pretty hard. And in '22 the the numbers it's a it's a lean Republican district. It's plus five registrations in on the Republican side. So I had to get folks from the Republican Party the independents to vote for me as well. But I think it goes back to that idea that people in Iowa really don't want politicians, they want real people making these decisions for them. And I was known in the community as a minister, as a nonprofit leader first. I had a lot of connections in that region. And I had made a lot of really positive connections with folks because I was out door knocking, especially in '22. '20 I couldn't because of the pandemic, but in '22, I was on thousands, of doorsteps showing up for people talking to them. And they could see that I was working my tail off. And that was the biggest part of it was, I was showing up and talking to folks and doing the work. And it really paid off. And I was paying attention to constituencies that often get overlooked. So I work with all of these diverse religious communities in my day job. And so I have some long standing relationships with newer Iowans, diverse religious communities, folks who often get ignored in the electoral process. And these are people who often will not vote in midterms or don't vote down ballot in the presidential years. But because I have strong connections, because I value their presence in the community, they matter to me, they voted for me, and they showed up for me. And I know that made a difference in my election.

Chip Gruen:

So can you tell us a little bit more about about your district? I mean, I think it's safe to say that a lot of people don't know very much about Iowa, we imagine, maybe some of the statewide demographics are not really reflective of the district that you're describing. So could you get us into a little bit more than nitty gritty of who these people are and what matters to them?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

So a lot of people think Iowa is so white, but we do actually have quite a bit of diversity in our state, and in this metro area, in particular. And so I am in the growing edge of the suburbs of our Des Moines metro area, a lot of people who are professionals, we've got quite a bit of I guess I'd say white collar diversity. So we've got people who are educated, who are working in white collar jobs, who've chosen to make their home here for the schools for the community, the quality of life, those those, those financial and job opportunities. And so we have folks who've moved to this metro area, from all over the state, from all over the country, from all over the world. And we also have a pretty significant population of folks who have been refugees. In Iowa, we've got a long history of that. And so many of those folks have stayed generations have built their lives here, or I see other people relocating from other parts of the country and gathering here in Iowa, because there's community for them. And so, you know, there's a lot of diversity in Iowa, and in my district in particular. And so I would see that when I was out door knocking, I met the priest of the Coptic Orthodox Church while I was out door knocking, he lives in my district. He's from Egypt, originally. And we actually have a significant population of folks from Egypt, living here in the metro area, quite a few in my community.

Chip Gruen:

So you've mentioned already, that you felt a little bit like your political life, the foundation for that was in some of that pastoral work and some of that community work. Can you talk about some of that interfaith work you've done? And how that affected the way you pursue your political goals? You know, what are some of the lessons that you learned about people in the communities that you represent? That carried forward from, from that different vocation from that pastoral vocation to your political office?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

Yeah, so my interfaith work is all about showing up. I mean, relationships are the thing. You can learn about a community from a book or from a documentary, you can tour a building, but until you actually meet the people, you don't really understand and you don't get to grow in your understanding. And so for years, I have been showing up and building connections with folks and in my interfaith work, I create opportunities for other people to get to know their neighbors. And so that is something that I'm known for is if you invite me to something, I do my best to get there to be there. I try to show up everywhere I can, you know, even places that might be a little uncomfortable for me, it's no big deal for me to be in a gathering, where I'm the only white person and nobody's speaking English for two hours, it's fine, but that's just something I'm used to. And so I practice that regularly getting out of my bubble, spending time with folks in their spaces, because you really gotta meet people where they're at. And then another piece from my interfaith work is, you know, we all have similarities, but we also have differences. And those differences can be really significant. But we've always got those opportunities to connect around those similarities. So I have a lot of interesting relationships with groups that on some issues, yes, we don't agree. But there is respect. There are connections, there are those times we work together. So I try very hard not to count anyone out or not to take anyone for granted.

Chip Gruen:

Yeah, so it's, I'm glad to hear you mentioned the, what you say about similarities and differences. I've kind of in my work thought for a long time that the way that we talk about difference is not always healthy, right, by minimizing it, you know, the discourses or rhetorics or about, you know, people being fundamentally the same, which on one level is absolutely true. But if you don't, you know, make room in your, in your thinking about the varieties of human experience for difference, then you're really surprised when people don't react the same way that you would so really heartened to hear you talk about, you know, not not trying to sweep those differences under the rug, but recognizing them.

Sarah Trone Garriott:

Well, and it's important to be able to manage your discomfort, because we're gonna encounter challenging situations, difficult conversations, if we're working with folks who are different than us, really, with anybody. But it's helpful to have that practice so that you don't shy away from those relationships, just because that potential is always there.

Chip Gruen:

So to go back to the events that got you into politics, and that led up to your your serving in the Iowa State Senate. I'm imagining what it must have been like after you won your race. What was this like? You know, considering that this was not your plan, but something that you felt compelled to do? Because you saw that it needed to be done? What was that transition, like as you moved into this role in public service?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

So the thing about election nights is they are awful for candidates. I mean, you just truly feel sick all day. And in 2020, that first election was really terrible, because the results just came rolling in that everyone else had lost decisively. And we couldn't find my results. And a friend from the Sikh community actually texted me and said, you won by 167 votes, I was like, what, and I had been pulling ahead by six points, and so that I had only won by just barely it, it was so shocking. And the next day, I found out that my opponent was going to put me through a recount. So it, it dragged on for a couple more weeks, I never really celebrated. And I think there were so many folks disappointed by the results, they kind of forgot about my win, at least in the party. So you know, I came into a very different situation than I had imagined in 2020, we thought we would have a blue wave, we thought we would have a different prep, you know, a different situation to to work with. And it was worse than it had been before. So, you know, I really had to adjust my expectations for what was possible. And really had to reorient myself about what were my goals, because there's always something you can do. And there are always opportunities, but they just weren't going to be taking back the majority in one of the chambers or being able to pass the legislation we wanted.

Chip Gruen:

Yeah. So then beyond that, so you are adjusting expectations. You've just, you know, unseeded, what for the second election in a row, somebody who had, you know, been long standing in the in the chamber. How are you received by the other legislators from your your party or from the other party? What was the experience like of actually, you know, walking in, you know, in either election for the first time.

Sarah Trone Garriott:

So the very first time, I hadn't been in rooms of people for a very long time because of COVID. And so I was kind of shocked by that being in the chamber with everyone for the swearing in, but it was the whitest, oldest, male-est room I had been in in a very long time. And I said, Wow, this doesn't look like Iowa. And so one of those opportunities that I found right away was how can I bring in the people that I know like, get them to the Capitol, get them in the process, get their voices here in the chamber? What were those opportunities? And you know, all the legislators are coming from such different backgrounds, and it's been a challenge to get to know the Republican legislators because even at the state level, we have some division. And so folks have been kind of confused about me being a minister being a woman, you know, seeing Christianity in a very different way than they do. Some of my Democratic legislators, I think, maybe are also a little weirded out by me because I'm a religious person, but I'm also a Democrat. And, you know, so yeah, in both places, I'm kind of kind of an oddity.

Chip Gruen:

Yeah, that's, that's, yeah, absolutely. I just, you know, finished up, we're in our last week of classes here at Muhlenberg and just finished up my Christian traditions class, and I always and always in the plural, right, there is not one Christianity. And that surprises students, right, that you can have people across the religious landscape, or the Christian landscape, for that matter, who think very differently about, you know, political issues, social issues, etc. I mean, so. So you ran into that full steam ahead in what I would presume to be a pretty conservative, pretty what evangelical kind of Christianity in that chamber?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

Yeah. So the Republicans that I know, for the most part, are very comfortable talking about their faith, being public, in their faith, sharing prayers in the legislature, you know, because that happens every day, and people can volunteer to sign up, but a lot of my Democratic colleagues do not. But I, you know, in my interfaith work, you know, I understand that I can appreciate and respect and be interested in my neighbor's faith. And it's not something that is a threat to my faith and it actually can be an inspiration it can make make me stronger, in my own particular beliefs. And, you know, so it, you know, for me, it's like, okay, how can we really give opportunities for the religious diversity of our state, and the non religious perspectives as well, you know, in these public realms, because we're only often hearing one kind of way of being religious in politics. And there's so much more out there that doesn't get a voice.

Chip Gruen:

So when we first met one another at the American Academy of Religion Annual Meetings, we you told me actually a little bit about that tradition of the Iowa State Senate opening with prayer, and that that was a tradition that you had a lot of feelings about, can you can you tell us about how you interacted with that?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

So, you know, for a lot of state legislatures, there will be a prayer. This is something that hasn't happened since the beginning of our state, I think it really only came about in the 1980s. So it's always kind of interesting to look at that history and say, why did why did that start happening? I don't know the answer to that. But it's this is the way it is, every legislative day in the house, and the Senate starts with a prayer, and previously used to be able to invite someone, a member of the community or religious leader to actually come and say that prayer. So that's what happened when I was invited by my senator, I was standing on the floor of the Senate chamber, sharing that prayer in front of everyone. Now, we can't do that we're not allowed since COVID. So the senators themselves are the only ones allowed to pray. And I want to bring in those other voices. That that diversity that is not really who I am. But I want to give my neighbors a chance to be heard in that moment. So I invite religious leaders or members of religious communities to write a prayer for me, I invite them to be there in the gallery when I read it, I note who it's from, I share a little something about that community, and share that prayer. And I've worked really hard, you know, I prioritize the prayers from diverse religious communities that are not my Christian background. So it's pretty rare that I share a Christian prayer. And when I do, it's often one of those Christian communities that you don't think of like the Coptic Orthodox Church.

Chip Gruen:

And when you did this, when you took this initiative to include those voices, in the in these prayers include the voices of some of your constituents who are otherwise not represented, how was that received? What was the the reaction to that, that inclusion?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

So one of the first prayers that I shared was actually a poem written by a Muslim constituent young woman I had worked with through my interfaith work, and it had all of these attributes for God in Arabic that I read those words of she helped me with pronunciation, and it was kind of a scandal. I got added to the jihad watch website. Um, There were some conservative blogs that wrote stories about me. And then we had some people cc'ing all legislators saying, How dare this happen in the Iowa Senate. And I had one legislator who replied-all because folks are really bad about doing that, saying that he basically agreed with the person making the complaint. And I could tell that it really bothered him that he did not understand the connections between the Jewish, Christian and Muslim communities that they are Abrahamic faiths that they have some common origins, and overlap, even in people and ideas. And so I had the opportunity to talk with him about that, I don't think that I've changed his mind. But it's definitely given me the opportunity to have some conversations with folks. But there's something about bringing that diversity into that traditionally, Christian prayer time, that I think is really important, because when people react strongly to it, it reminds me how much it matters, to make it clear that, hey, if we're going to have a prayer time, it should be for all people. These people are part of our community, they live in Iowa, their religious freedom matters as well. And so it makes me even more motivated to continue to do it. But I don't just experience pushback on that, from the conservative side of things. I have a lot of progressive folks saying How dare you pray, you should be protesting the fact that there's prayer, you should be doing this or that. But I feel like from for what is true to me, and how I want to spend my political capital, I think this is a better approach for me. And I think it's, it's, it's a way to honor my neighbors. And I hope that by being present in that chamber, it inspires them to think about state government. It's, it's just a lot of fun to invite my neighbors down to the capitol and involve them in this way. And they really enjoy that opportunity. You know, it's something that I can give them, when I can't pass the legislation that I want, I can include them, I can honor them, I can share about them to my colleagues in the legislature.

Chip Gruen:

So you know, the way that you've described your district, I mean, you've mentioned Sikh community members, for example, and you know, that there are certainly, you know, communities that are further afield from Christianity than Islam. What was it about that particular prayer that was so offensive? I mean, was it theology? Was it the use of Arabic language? Was it just the representation, this different worldview? I mean, one could imagine I mean, as you say, there is this common denominator of the shared Hebrew bible old testament tradition, right? The idea that these are Abrahamic faiths that, that worship the same God, I can almost understand it more. If it was, you know, even, you know, more farther afield like Hindu or Sikh or Buddhist? What was it about this, you know, inclusion of the Muslim community, do you think that was so offensive that drove people even to put you on this watch list?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

So there are folks in the community that are just very biased towards certain religious groups. And so there's just a lot of animosity towards the Muslim community, which is very unfair. I think there's a lot of folks who just don't understand. They don't realize that there is this relationship, this connection between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. That, a lot of our neighbors are just not educated about it. So I heard people expressing things about the Muslim community that were just not true at all. And they did not understand the roots of those Abrahamic faiths. And so it was an opportunity for me to try to share with them about that. But there's this sense that the only real religion is Christianity, and the only real Christianity is a certain variety of Christianity. And so every time I share a prayer from a different community, it really challenges folks who are feeling that way. And I know it, it makes makes some folks pretty uncomfortable.

Chip Gruen:

You know, I think, given how you described your, your constituency, I would be surprised if there wasn't, say a Hindu temple society. I mean, that's even more far afield than than Islam. Do you think that it is about that relative distance from Christianity or do you think there's something in particular about Islam that was kind of triggering for for this for reaction?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

You know, I just feel that the way the media has portrayed the Muslim community, you know, those kind of deep seated biases that came out of September 11. There's, there's just, you know, there's more negative resonances that folks have. And often in the Muslim community, you know, folks might dress differently. The women might wear the hijab. And so that is unsettling to folks, because it's just so different. But I know, we've also seen some pretty strong anti Asian bias in the last few years as well. And so, you know, when I'm inviting folks from the Asian community to participate, I know that that that's there, too. And for the Sikh community, you know, they wear the turban, I've a lot of people don't understand who they are. And they experienced a lot of bias, violence even after September 11, as well.

Chip Gruen:

Yeah, which is just the poster child for religious ignorance, right, that people responded to the Sikh community the way that they did after September 11. I mean, obviously, this doesn't have anything to do with Islam, not that it's okay to respond to Muslims negatively after September 11 either, but, you know, simply because someone wears a different headdress, right, wears the turban, you know, people imagine them as as somehow being connected to this thing that was scary, and other, and you know, like I say, a poster child for, for why we need more religious literacy in this country, I think.

Sarah Trone Garriott:

Many of our neighbors don't even think about the significant Indian population we have in the metro area, they don't, they don't realize that we do have a large temple outside the metro area that we've got two Sikh temples here. Because they're, they're there, but you have to kind of go out of your way to drive past them. And so they're there, but they just might not realize it.

Chip Gruen:

Yeah, it's interesting. And in my work here in the Lehigh Valley, you know, I, I think I've run into into some of the same things, right to make people like there's certain kinds of religious diversity that people are aware of, and certain kinds that you have to have to show right have to demonstrate, you know, and I think it is one of these ways that we are trained that we think in percentages, you know, if x percent, of people identify as Y, X and Y percent, identify as Z, right, maybe you get down to that .5%, and you just don't care anymore, you know, or that point, 1.2%, and you just don't care anymore, because it's not a super significant number of people in your community? But at least from our perspective, here in the Institute for Religious and Cultural Understanding, you know, it's not about the numbers of people but the variety of beliefs and practices and worldviews that we want to expose people to it sounds like you have a pretty similar attitude.

Sarah Trone Garriott:

Well, and, you know, folks are just not used to seeing these religious communities in these spaces, because we have a majority white Christian legislature. And, you know, the folks who had been offering prayers, for the most part were those white Christian legislators. And so it, it's, it's been a change, because I'm pretty active in offering prayers, I try to do it several times a year, because I've got a lot of communities that I'd love to give the opportunity to. And as a Christian leader, I think it's really important for me to talk about these communities and show them in a positive light. Because in my interfaith work, I'm inspired by my neighbors, and how they live their faith. I feel that getting to know my neighbors and respecting them and appreciating them actually makes my faith stronger, that I don't have to see the faith of others as a threat. And it's not, you know, it's challenging me to think about my faith, but it doesn't, you know, it doesn't challenge me in a way that hurts my faith.

Chip Gruen:

So you mentioned that you like to include, you know, these neighbors from other religious traditions in this, this ritual in this prayer, in lieu of, you know, because you feel a little bit, you know, remiss that you can't pass the legislation you would want to pass. Do you have any examples of the kinds of legislation that you feel like would be beneficial to Iowa into these communities that you have been unsuccessful in passing, given the climate in the in the legislature?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

So every state legislature works differently, and in Iowa, if you're in the minority party, and you file a bill, it never has to get a hearing, it can just go in a drawer. And so it's really the prerogative of the majority party, what bills get a public hearing, everything does not have to get its opportunity to be heard. And so for me, I am really concerned about health and human services issues, we have not expanded Medicaid postpartum care for 12 months, which a lot of states have done that. And, and so that's an opportunity to really care for a lot of lower income folks, there's, gosh, almost 40% of Iowa births happen on Medicaid. And so to make sure that, you know, those parents have care that they're, they're getting access to care, that makes that child healthier, as well. And so that's, that's a big one for me. I really want to make sure that our public school system is as strong as it possibly could be. But unfortunately, in the last few years, we've seen a lot of legislation that really attacks public schools, makes it harder for them to have diverse materials, really just puts our educators under a microscope if they're going to be talking about diversity, which is that that's not good for our whole community. But that also makes, it makes it harder on our diverse communities as well. And the funding for our public schools has not kept up with inflation for the last 10 years. So that means each year they're getting an effective cut. And, you know, most of my neighbors, they they moved to this community because of good public schools, and they are very good. But every year, the schools are doing more with less. And it's really having an impact across the entire state. And so I want to make sure that everyone, no matter what their background is, no matter where they came from, they have good opportunities in Iowa to be healthy to get educated to have a future here. And I also really want to make sure that our state government is sending a message to people that they're welcome here. And unfortunately, we've seen a lot of legislative action that tells people from diverse communities that no we really don't want you here, and I've had friends moving away. As a result of that. And the GLBTQ is community has really been targeted, in the last two years. And there's a lot of folks from diverse religious backgrounds, different racial or cultural or language backgrounds that are also feeling feeling that discomfort too.

Chip Gruen:

So you talked about some of the initiatives that you're interested in, I mean, health care and education, I mean, those benefit Christians, Muslims, Hindus equally right? You know, why do you think you run into the problems that you do when you're wanting more support for programs that just benefit humans?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

Well, there there are some differing ideas about how we should spend our resources, what really benefits the community. But even when we're talking about feeding people, it's it's kind of amazing to me that I have colleagues who are very public about their Christian faith. They might host Bible studies in the capitol they like to pray in public. And yet, feeding people is something that we really disagree on. When you look at the Christian scriptures, you know, there are two miracles that show up in all four Gospels. The first one is the resurrection. And the second is the feeding of the multitudes. I mean, what could be more important in our faith and feeding people in need? And I have Christian colleagues who say, Nope, we are not going to do that. They need to go out and get jobs there. They don't deserve to be fed, unless they're, they're doing this that or the other thing, we can't trust people who say they need food, which is not what Jesus commands the disciples, in the synoptics, at least, you know, they say, send them away Jesus. And Jesus says, No, you give them something to eat.

Chip Gruen:

So this podcast, ReligionWise, and our work here at the Institute generally is interested in the place of religion and public life, right the way that religion is imagined, in the public conversation. Given that you now have a foot firmly both in religious leadership and political leadership. What is your perspective? And maybe how's that changed on this confluence of religion and politics? How do you think about that intersection differently than you might have a few years ago?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

So I'm a Lutheran. And we are kind of awkward, uncomfortable about thinking about politics, and religion that comes from our history. And I think it's good to be wary, to be thoughtful about your boundaries, because there are opportunities for political power to corrupt religious practice and faith. And there are real problems with, you know, using the power and resources of the state to promote one religion over another. And so I firmly believe that both politics and religion are simply about how we live together as a community. And so, you know, the matters of faith do speak to the decisions we make in our governments. And we should be thinking about how do we faithfully engage in that civic life. And so I've had a lot of faith communities, a lot of churches, especially reaching out to me and saying, you know, how do we do this in an appropriate way, because we're really uncomfortable with being people of faith in these public realms, we're really uncomfortable with talking about political engagements in our church community. There's nothing wrong with being political, it's being partisan that's the problem. And the thing about faithfulness is it will always cut in a way that's kind of challenging and uncomfortable for you. And so you, you know, you, you're going to have to look at yourself and your beliefs and your political decisions in a in a in a challenging and hard way. If you're truly being faithful, it's not going to all feel easy and great.

Chip Gruen:

So I think on that note, we've talked a little bit about some of the struggles, right, some of the loggerheads that you've come to. And, you know, we all know that that is not simply a function of the Iowa State Legislature that this is everywhere. And I think a lot of people are really discouraged about the state of our country right now. And maybe even worse, they're discouraged and pessimistic, that there is any hope that there's a way out of our polarization and division and room to heal and move on. What do you think about the future? Are you hopeful that there is a path forward from this place that we find ourselves in now?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

Ah, yes, I was a hospital chaplain at Children's Memorial Hospital in Chicago for two years. And I know that even in the worst situations, where the is the the worst possible outcome that will happen, there's always the opportunity to make things better. So we always have the opportunity to, to do something, make things better, in any situation, so that that gives me some hope from those experiences. And those opportunities, they can really matter, they can really make a difference for people, even if it's not the big thing, or the better outcome that you wanted. Another thing from my interfaith work is that I know we need to practice being uncomfortable. A lot of times, when folks talk about wanting to overcome division, and have, you know, across the aisle conversations and relationships, they want it to be free from discomfort. And that's not really possible, because then we can't talk about the things that are really important and hard. So I think as a culture, as a society, we have some work to do in practicing, practicing how to have challenging conversations and be in relationship with folks who are different. And being out of our comfort zone. Because so much about our life, we can pick and choose and design the way that we prefer. And, and, and we need to have more engagement with folks who are different. There aren't a lot of public spaces that are throwing us together in that way. Religious communities can be one of those ways, but often we're self selecting to the community that feels more aligned with our values, which makes sense, but then we might not be meeting people who are different and remembering that we're all human beings together.

Chip Gruen:

Yeah, it seems you know, you think about I liked what you said about how there are not a lot of public institutions that that expose us to that difference. I mean, you know, one of the things you drive to the suburbs and you notice, right that a lot of people have a swimming pool or a playground in their backyard. or, you know, order books from Amazon or whatever? And to the detriment maybe of the public pool, of the public playground or the public library. It seems like maybe maybe this is something to continue to think about, as we think about what our public spaces look like and how much we're supporting them. Because as you say, I mean, religious institutions that might have the best intentions. I mean, I think it was Martin Luther King who said, No, nowhere is United States more segregated, or at no time is the United States more segregated than on a Sunday morning.

Sarah Trone Garriott:

And so a lot of work in my day job in the nonprofit world is about creating opportunities for people to get to know their neighbors and go places outside their comfort zone. In my legislative work, I try to bring some of that to my colleagues, but I'm always pushing myself to get out into the communities. I'm showing up anything that I get invited to all these different communities, and then showing up on people's doorsteps trying to talk to them face to face where I can find them. So I feel like as a legislator, I really need to work hard to do that. So I can connect with all these different aspects of my constituency in my community.

Chip Gruen:

Yeah, I'm with you about you know, going where you're invited and being in those public or quasi public spaces, you know, to be uncomfortable. You will not convince me to go door to door though. I'm afraid I draw the line there. So you're stronger, you're stronger there than I am, I'm afraid.

Sarah Trone Garriott:

So door to door. I actually really enjoy it. And when I'm feeling discouraged, the thing that helps me the most is getting out into my community. Because what you see on social media and in the news is not really what's going on on the ground level. And there's something really wonderful about just talking to your neighbors. Most people are happy to meet me every once in a while I have some bad experiences. But for the most part it's it's really affirming and encouraging to get out there.

Chip Gruen:

So what and maybe you won't be able to answer this but or maybe you'll answer it and it won't come true, but what do you think is next for Sarah Trone Garriott? Professionally and or politically? Where does the road lead to from here?

Sarah Trone Garriott:

I feel like I'm constantly in a midlife crisis. Always asking myself that question. I don't know what the answer is. I never planned to become a minister. I never planned to leave parish and work in the nonprofit world. I never planned to run for office, I certainly never planned to live in Iowa. But life is this series of opportunities callings for me that I see a way that I can be of service. And I get some nudges in that direction. So my next thing is I've got to run again in 2024. Get through that election, and I will get my first full four year term. And then maybe I'll have a little bit of a breather to think about what's next.

Chip Gruen:

All right, that sounds like as good a plan as any I think my dad used to say humans make plans and God laughs And so maybe maybe just one step at a time is the best way forward.

Sarah Trone Garriott:

Yeah.

Chip Gruen:

Well, thank you so much for coming on ReligionWise, this has been great. I think you're the first policymaker who has made an appearance and we're talking about the influence of religion and public life. I don't know of a better place to do it. So we really appreciate your time.

Sarah Trone Garriott:

Yeah, thank you.

Chip Gruen:

This has been ReligionWise a podcast produced by the Institute for Religious and Cultural Understanding of Muhlenberg College. ReligionWise is produced and directed by Christine Flicker. For more information about additional programming, or to make an inquiry about a speaking engagement, please visit our website at religionandculture.com. There you'll find our contact information, links to other programming and have the opportunity to support the work of the Institute. Please subscribe to ReligionWise wherever you get your podcasts. We look forward to seeing you next time.