The Reformed Deacon

The Heart of a Deacon

• a Podcast from the OPC Committee on Diaconal Ministries • Season 3 • Episode 18

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In this episode host, Pastor Chris Cashen talks with Elder Jeremy Huntington and Deacon Scott Cormier from Covenant OPC, New Bern, NC to discuss Matthew 15:21-28—where we find Jesus modeling true compassion and how that example can help shape the heart of a deacon. 

Chris, Jeremy and Scott look at this passage about a Canaanite woman who comes to Jesus crying for help for her daughter who is demon-possessed. The discussion is focused on the application of this passage as it relates to a deacon's heart.

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Scott Cormier:

One of the biggest things that is necessary is preparing the heart beforehand so that you can respond in the right way at the right time. So a lot of times I like to go back and just review what is important in the office of deacon, or, you know, I'll go back myself and reread through the documents that we have and think about it and meditate upon these things so that my heart is ready for those needs.

David Nakhla:

Welcome to the Reformed Deacon, a casual conversation with topics specifically designed to help local Reformed Deacons. There are nearly a thousand deacons in the OPC alone, so let's take this opportunity to learn from and encourage one another. We're so glad you could join us. Let's jump into our next episode.

Chris Cashen:

Welcome to another episode of the Reformed Deacon Podcast. My name is Chris Cashin and I serve as pastor of Trinity Reformed OPC in Lanham, maryland. I also serve on the OPC's Committee on Diaconal Ministries and it's my privilege once in a while to host this podcast. Today with me are Jeremy Huntington and Scott Cormier.

Chris Cashen:

Jeremy is a ruling elder at Covenant OPC in New Bern, north Carolina. He grew up in North Dakota, so he's not a native of North Carolina. His father was a Presbyterian minister ending up in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. He was a church planter. His mother is still a member of Bethel OPC in North Dakota. Jeremy builds boats in North Carolina. He's been doing that for many years now and when he came to North Carolina he began attending a mission church there in New Bern, which became a particular church which is now Covenant OPC, and he was ordained as a ruling elder in September of 2002. So Jeremy's been serving as an elder for many years a couple of decades now been serving as an elder for many years a couple of decades now. He is also a member of the Presbytery of the Southeast Home Missions Committee and with his wife Janine, they have nine children ranging in ages from two to 20. It's a busy household, welcome.

Jeremy Huntington:

Jeremy, thank you. It's good to see you again, chris, and good to be with you.

Chris Cashen:

Scott is a deacon at Covenant and New Bern. He was a Marine and, scott, we're not going to hold that against you. I was in the Navy for a few years, but you were a Marine for eight, and so I've got a lot of respect for you. Brother, thank you for serving. He's married to Adria, with four boys. I don't know what are their ages, scott four boys I don't know what are their ages, scott Fifteen down to seven. Okay, also a busy home. You're an occupational therapist focusing on upper extremity rehabilitation, and you were ordained as a deacon in July of 2018, so you've been serving for six years now and in two different churches currently at Covenant OPC, but also at Pilgrim OPC and Bangor, maine. Welcome, scott.

Scott Cormier:

Actually the 2018, I think, was in Maine and I was actually a deacon here at Covenant OPC for a number of years, moved up to Maine for about three years and I was a deacon up there and then I've since moved back down here again.

Chris Cashen:

All right, so there are many more years of being a deacon. About how many years have you been ordained as a deacon?

Scott Cormier:

I think it was 2008. I'd have to go back and look at that.

Chris Cashen:

All right, we'll take that 2008. Welcome man. Today we're going to be discussing, in broad brush fashion, the heart of a deacon, and we're going to do that, or at least try to do that, by considering a short portion of Scripture to see how it's going to help us think through this topic of the heart of a deacon. Now, from time to time on this podcast, we want to take an in-depth look at Bible passages and theological topics to strengthen a deacon's understanding of and purpose for his office. In other words, we plan to invite some of our guests to open up Scripture or doctrinal topics which have a particular application to the work and the character, the qualities of a Reformed deacon. In today's podcast, we're going to be taking a look at Matthew 15, verses 21 through 28. This is about the Canaanite woman who comes to Jesus crying for help for her daughter who is demon-possessed. Most of our discussion is going to be focused on the application of this passage as it relates to a deacon's heart, and so we have the two men here, jeremy and Scott, who have been serving the church for many years, to help us walk through this passage with an eye toward the work of a deacon, particularly with regard to a deacon's heart. Well, let's begin. I'm going to read this portion of Scripture, matthew 15, beginning at verse 21,. And this was from the English Standard Version. Let's give attention to God's holy word from the English Standard Version. Let's give attention to God's holy word.

Chris Cashen:

And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon. And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying have mercy on me, o Lord, son of David. My daughter is severely oppressed by a demon. But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying Send her away, for she is crying out after us. He answered I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But she came and knelt before him saying Lord, help me. But she came and knelt before him saying Lord, help me. And he answered it is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs. She said, yes, lord. Yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table. And Jesus answered her oh, woman, great is your face. And Jesus answered her oh, woman, great is your faith. Be it done for you as you desire. And her daughter was healed immediately. Jeremy, would you pray for us please?

Jeremy Huntington:

Yes, I'd be glad to Lord, our God. We rejoice in the word that you've given us. We rejoice that you are our God. We rejoice, Father, son and Spirit, that you have revealed yourself to us in wondrous ways and that we can open your word and find new meaning, new understanding, new revelation, not because you have created something new, but because you are continuing to sanctify us and give us greater understanding. And so we thank you for your word and you pray, as we consider it and discuss it and its application for our lives and the lives of the offices and especially the deacons of your church, that you would continue to work in us. Greater conformity to your will, but a greater burden and desire and love for your church and for Christ himself. We ask this in Christ's name, amen, amen.

Chris Cashen:

Thank you. Thank you Well, brothers, this is an interesting passage as Matthew presented. This event, this interaction, this conversation follows immediately on the heels of Jesus' interaction with the Pharisees and scribes regarding ceremonial hand washing. If you remember, they were complaining that the disciples weren't washing their hands and that was really a ceremonial washing before they ate. And then Jesus explains that, well, that's not where sin comes from. It's not what goes in but what comes out from your heart. But it's also after that interaction between Jesus and his disciples where he feeds the 5,000.

Chris Cashen:

And we see in that passage where again the disciples are saying to Jesus with regard to the people send them away. We don't have enough for them here. Just Jesus, send them away. It's desolate the day's over. And so there's a bit of repetition here as we get to this interaction with the Seraphim woman, or the Canaanite woman, where the disciples are once again coming to Jesus and actually the text says begging him send her away. She's crying out. Well, jeremy, initially Jesus doesn't respond but remains silent. What was going on? I know we don't have it in the text, but was this a lack of mercy by Jesus?

Jeremy Huntington:

well, the obvious, the obvious answer is that it's not a lack of mercy in jesus, and that's obvious just from just from the whole record of scripture. But uh, I I think that, uh, especially as you read on, and in that chapter we come just a few verses later, we've had, in just previous chapter, the feeding of the 5,000 in Matthew's record. Then we come to the feeding of the 4,000, and Jesus tells his disciples, he calls them to him and says I have compassion on this multitude. So it's obviously not a lack of mercy on the part of Christ, see, on the part of Christ. As to what's going on, it's interesting because you're asking a question from an attitude, from a perspective that most commentators don't actually even contemplate this passage. But there's a great deal of discussion as to why Jesus was silent here.

Jeremy Huntington:

I think that there are times, when it comes to the disciples, that it's apparent that he's desirous of seeing their response, and their response immediately was to urge him I'm using the New King James, but they urge him to send her away. And it's that urgency with which—and again, it's interesting in Matthew's record we have this sandwich between the feeding of the 5,000 and the feeding of the 4,000, where at the feeding of the 5,000, the disciples want to send them away to go take care of their needs. You know, we don't have anything to feed them, send them away. They're neat. We don't have anything to feed them, send them away. They obviously don't have anything with which to provide an answer to the request of this Canaanite woman. So their immediate response is what it was with the 5,000, send her away. Send them away.

Jeremy Huntington:

And they haven't learned from the feeding of the 5,000, the capacity that Christ has to respond with compassion and mercy. And so it may very well be that Christ is trying to stir up in them recollection of that work that he did with the feeding of the 5,000, when their immediate response was something similar to this send them away. We don't have the capacity to provide for their needs, we don't have the capacity to care for them. Send them away. And they haven't learned that lesson. They didn't take that lesson to heart from the feeding of the 5,000. And I can't say I necessarily blame them. We have the advantage of reading this record and being critical because of how it's presented to us, but it's hard to be confronted with situations and your own immediate capacity to answer the problem, to not answer in the way that the disciples answered this.

Chris Cashen:

So yeah, very good. Where might we go in Scripture if we're wondering, you know, was Jesus not being—where might we go in Scripture to say, of course, jesus is merciful. Scripture has opened that up to us and we need to bring some other passages in to maybe not reassure ourselves but to say, yeah, we need to put that guardrail up here that Jesus is merciful Brothers. Where might we go in Scripture to find those kinds of texts which would put up that guardrail for us Jesus is merciful.

Jeremy Huntington:

Well, I think that we can see it from the whole of Scripture. You know, even from the very beginning of Genesis when man falls, god doesn't leave him without hope, but he promises one to save and redeem. We have the record of God's work preserving Israel throughout their wilderness wanderings wilderness wanderings. But we come to Isaiah and those great passages of Isaiah picturing Christ and the suffering servant and what he's going to do. And then in the New Testament we have it opened up to us that Christ is the fulfillment of those promises. My kids know we're coming to the end of summer. They're getting geared up for the next year of school.

Jeremy Huntington:

My least favorite verse at graduation time is Jeremiah 29, 11. Every Christian and homeschool graduate is overwhelmed with cards that say I know what I have planned for you. You know and so they all walk away with this great passage from Jeremiah that God has great plans to prosper us. Except that's not really the context. Right, I'm about to send you into 70 years of captivity. It would be terrible, it would be harsh, but I've got a great plan for your life. He says to the Jews I'm going to restore you.

Jeremy Huntington:

And so we see that, though. Now I'm bringing that to a real application. We see that borne out, though in that applicable way to the church. The trials that God brings us through are, for our purpose, right. And then we tie that in with Paul's letter to the Romans All things work together for the good of those called according to his purpose. All things work together for the good of those called according to his purpose.

Jeremy Huntington:

And so when you take the whole record of scripture, we tie it all together from the beginning to the end, and we see that Christ is that fulfillment of the promises that we have from the fall of man through the redemption and the restoration. He's the Messiah, the promised one that we have in Isaiah, and so all of these promises are fulfilled in Christ. And so you can't come to a place and say Christ is without mercy, especially when you see the charges set against Israel and Judah. And yet the promises of the Messiah and the suffering servant and you know to bring that in even to the Canaanite woman the promises of Messiah in Isaiah are not just a restoration of Israel, but that this promise and the fulfillment and the restoration will be to the ends of the earth and he's going to bring in the Gentiles and build his kingdom from the nations.

Jeremy Huntington:

And so here we can tie that in here as well with the Canaanite woman. Right, send her away. He says to her, you know, but what have I to do with you? I'm here for the sheep, I'm here for the lost children of God. And she says but you know, have mercy on me, I'll take it from. And he responds to her that it's her faith, right, so it's not a different means, it's not a different method of incorporation, but it's the same faith that brings her in, which we'll see then in Acts being fulfilled, and then through the missionary journeys of the apostles fulfilled and then through the missionary journeys of the apostles.

Chris Cashen:

I appreciate your going to the Old Testament first and bringing us through that to the New, and I also appreciate your reference to Romans 8, for at the end of that chapter we see that there's nothing, nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ, which obviously establishes His mercy. That's unbreakable. Well, scott, this was as far as Matthew records the event. The second time that Jesus' disciples respond in this way send them or her away We've just established that Jesus is a merciful God-man. What may have been going on in the hearts of the disciples during these moments? Now, I know we don't have a picture, we don't have a verse that says, okay, here's what was happening, but what do you think what might have been going on in their hearts during these moments? Not only just the 5,000 to be fed, but now very particularly with regard to this Canaanite woman.

Scott Cormier:

Well, I think you know when you're put into this kind of situation and something like this comes up quickly, there's just a lot of pressures going on, they're very busy. In this particular case A lot of needs from within the people who are surrounding them and outside, and so that busyness may be pushing them, causing stress and causing them to not see the need for them. Also, they may consider that this particular need is beyond their ability to help and not looking outside of themselves as far as how to help with this particular need. They're not yet in the mindset of looking to Christ to supply the need to bringing this person to Christ, to speaking to Christ about this at this point in their ministry. Person to Christ, to speaking to Christ about this at this point in their ministry, and so that can be a part of it. Just not thinking, maybe thinking about their own strength, how would I accomplish this? I'm not able to accomplish this and not seeing how it is that, how they can go to Christ for their need.

Scott Cormier:

And you know, I also think, as we were talking about, they still have a lot more to learn. There's a lot of ministry yet to come, a teaching from Christ. They don't know all there is to know about Christ. Later we'll see how strengthened they are at the later parts of their ministry, but early on they don't know that he is to die, that he will rise from the dead. He hasn't taught them from all the scriptures and they don't have the full outpouring of the Holy Spirit to strengthen them in that particular way that they will later. So I think there's a lot of all of that going on and not able yet to respond to those kinds of pressures.

Chris Cashen:

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree, jesus, but even the dogs feed on the crumbs, and she's suggesting that even the crumbs will be sufficient for me, because I know who you are. Do you see a contrast, scott, between her faith and the faith of the disciples at this point, scott?

Scott Cormier:

Well, I do, of course, early on in this interaction. She just has this she has a strong need that nobody else can fulfill and no one has been able to fulfill up to this point, and there's only one person who can fulfill this need that she has and that's Christ. This need that she has and that's Christ.

Scott Cormier:

And so I think this, as Jeremy was saying, this faith is developed as he draws it out of her little by little and she's verbalizing it more and more clearly and showing the example of her faith. But early on there's this desperate need that she has Again, nobody else can supply the need except for Christ. So I think that is one thing here that's a difference between her and the apostles. She has a desperate need. She sees where she can have that need met and she has to go to that person in Christ. And you know, you can't see into the disciples' minds and everything, but often we are used to doing things in our own strength, our own power. So they don't quite have that same need here that is driving them to Christ that they see. In fact they do have a need, but maybe they don't see it clearly that they need to. They need him for help in this matter.

Chris Cashen:

Yeah, very good. Well, I think, at least from my perspective, the overall theme of this passage seems to be the compassion of Jesus. This Gentile woman, this Canaanite, this Seraphim, this dog, she's seeking it and the disciples were trying to avoid it, and yet in the mercy were trying to avoid it, and yet in the mercy, the compassion of Jesus, it just shines through brightly. Jeremy, do you see in Christ's response the depiction of the heart of Jesus as recorded by Matthew, set forth here as a model for certainly all Christians, but in particular deacons?

Jeremy Huntington:

all Christians, but in particular deacons. Well, certainly, as the one who sets the example for us in the offices of the church, as those are set out by Paul in his letter to Timothy and in his letters to Timothy and Titus, we're not supposed to be making up our own way. We're not creating something new and entirely different just to satisfy our logistical needs and purposes. But when we take these texts, you know, christ says to her in the very first I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And she says Lord, help me. And again he's doing this for her benefit. Her prayers are increasing in their fervor. And he responds with great is your faith, Let it be to you as you desire.

Jeremy Huntington:

But then again we come down, just a few verses later, to the feeding of the 4,000.

Jeremy Huntington:

And Jesus calls his disciples to him and says I have compassion on the multitude right, and so it's this because they've been with me for three days and have nothing to eat, I don't want to send them away hungry lest they faint on the way.

Jeremy Huntington:

There's this compassion and the desire that he has for his people, and that, then, is the great task that the deacon is supposed to have that over, that compassion, that desire for the people, first the people of Christ, but remember it's first the people. But then that ministry spills out of the church into the community, beyond the church right. So we begin with the house of God and then it extends to those outside, even in an evangelistic way. And so we have that sort of representative for us here, christ with his compassion for his sheep, but demonstrating as well that it's a passion not just for the sheep who are already in the house, but for those whom he's elected, those who are outside. And so it certainly sets that sample for us and picture for the work of the deacon right Not just a new office with new logistical problems to solve, but certainly a fulfillment of that ministry of Christ.

Chris Cashen:

Excellent, yeah. So I want to dig now a little bit deeper into the deacon's heart. I think we've set the table as we've considered, christ and his compassion certainly showing forth powerfully in this passage. Real question is what follows it, and this is for both of you. Would you agree that the heart of a deacon begins with a true saving faith in the Lord Jesus?

Jeremy Huntington:

Well, yes.

Chris Cashen:

Okay, good, so here's what I want to get at. How would you describe that faith in Jesus? Now, I guess what I'm looking for is something very particular. Not that a deacon has a different faith, but, given this passage, there just doesn't seem to be any recognition or acknowledgement by the disciples that Jesus could do anything to help this woman, not even a passing thought that he was able to or willing. Do deacons need to know and believe that Jesus is able? I mean, is that part of a deacon's heart?

Jeremy Huntington:

I think that we must say it certainly must be part of the deacon's heart. Paul tells Timothy, concerning the deacons that they are to hold fast, that they are to hold the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. So it's very near the beginning of those qualifications that he gives hold fast that mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. And what is that mystery of the faith if it doesn't include a belief that god is sovereign, that he is powerful? This is the heart of the prayer that that the believer is to bring.

Jeremy Huntington:

Why do we pray to god if he isn't sovereign over all things?

Jeremy Huntington:

And why do we pray to God if he isn't sovereign over all things?

Jeremy Huntington:

And why do we pray to God if we don't believe he can't do the things that we're asking him to do? And so, you know, the Puritans were, they were big on prayer and, for all of their opposition to foreign prayers, they left us with many books of written prayers, written prayers, but at the heart of them was this belief in God's sovereignty and his power to do, as Paul says exceedingly abundantly, above all that we think or ask. And so that's certainly part of this mystery of the faith that the deacon is to hold, not because, as you said, it's a different faith, but that's what Paul is setting forth by the Spirit of God. That is required of the deacons that they must believe in the doctrinal standards of, if you will, the doctrinal standards of the church, but then really believe in their heart that God is who he says he is, and that God was able to do what he says he can do, and that he is often able to do what we don't believe he can do.

Chris Cashen:

Very good.

Chris Cashen:

On this passage we have described for us a mercy seeker in the Canaanite woman. She sought mercy actually for herself, because she was helpless. She had no way to help her daughter who was cruelly demon-possessed. And then, in contrast, we have the disciples who wanted to have earplugs to stop the sound of her crying out for mercy. For crying out for mercy, scott, in your many years of diaconal service, what does a heart of mercy look like? How does a deacon hear such a cry and respond in mercy? What does it take within your heart to respond with compassion? Mercy.

Scott Cormier:

What does it take within your heart to respond with compassion? Well, I think one of the biggest things that is necessary is preparing the heart beforehand so that you can respond in the right way at the right time. So a lot of times I like to go back and just review what is important in the office of deacon, or I'll go back myself and reread through the documents that we have and think about it and meditate upon these things, so that my heart is ready for those needs. As we've talked about before. We first look to Christ, and so we remember that Christ was always ready to show compassion and we can think on this deeply. And what did that look like at the time? And what does that mean for me? As he went around and healed every kind of disease or washed people's feet or gave them food or gave them the word, whatever it might be. And you know, think on the fact that he came to serve and not to be served, and that he is interceding on our behalf and prepared to strengthen us. So first it's a looking to Christ, but also I like to go back to the book of church order to remind myself, you know, what is it that is required of me as a deacon. What is it that I need to strive for?

Scott Cormier:

And the opening part of the form of government. When they talk about what will be said about a deacon, it starts off like this the office of a deacon is based upon the solicitude and love of Christ for his own people. So tender is our Lord's interest in their temporal needs that he considers what is done unto one of the least of his brethren as done to him. For he will say to those who have ministered to his little ones I was hungry and you gave me to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me to drink. I was a stranger and you took me in and I was naked and you clothed me. I was sick and you visited me, and I was a stranger and you took me in and I was naked and you clothed me. I was sick and you visited me and I was in prison and you came on to me. And it goes on from there. And there's many other good parts there in that section, but it helps to get my mind and my heart in the right place for service.

Scott Cormier:

And also I remember an excellent book that we've read here and I know it's been talked about on the podcast before the deacon, by cornelius van dam, and one of the tasks he talks about there for the deacon is to safeguard the communal joy of the fellowship of believers and, uh, sort of to be a joy detector and to find out who has needs and to seek to address them, to lift the burdens off of their shoulders so that they too can function according to God's responsibilities that he's given to them, that they can use their gifts because the burdens have been lifted off of their backs, they can go to worship on Sunday with joy and not be distracted by all the cares of the world because they've had the assistance of the congregation or of the deacons. So there's aspects like that that get me thinking in the right way. Obviously, the means of grace. I almost feel like you could do a whole podcast on the deacon and the means of grace. We were lucky, we're blessed, one year to have a conference here with Dr Piper from Greenville Seminary on the means of grace and all the aspects in the church and for the believer and for the church and things like that, and so as a deacon, we need to be in the word ourselves, in prayer, in worship, praying with others and being strengthened by all the means of grace so that we can do this work.

Scott Cormier:

It's a spiritual task. We have to prepare our heart ahead of time and then we can respond with the right heart. Our heart ahead of time and then we can respond with the right heart. Also, I think back to the last summit that we had and people may have heard this already. If not, they may want to go and listen. There were very good messages that were given, one in particular by Pastor Ron Pierce on the ministry that deacons need, and that could be a good message for preparing your heart for serving in the church. And also I remember that Pastor Bill Shishko talked about, had an excellent talk on deacons, but specifically he mentioned many books, devotional materials that deacons can read and meditate upon Christ, see how he served to prepare themselves to grow in their love for Christ and be ready to then serve others. And so I think all of that hopefully that answers a little bit of what you're asking after that question, but definitely preparation and seeking to have the heart ready ahead of time is what is neat.

Chris Cashen:

That's a full answer, Scott. Thank you, Jeremy. Is there anything you would want to add to that? If you were training a new deacon or a prospective deacon to anticipate events like this one, how would you advise him to prepare his heart for something like this?

Jeremy Huntington:

Oh, scott's touched on it already. The first thing is to remember that the office of a deacon is a spiritual office. We might get caught up in all of the works of mercy, all of the waiting on tables that the first deacons were appointed to do, but it was for the purpose that the apostles could devote themselves to prayer and instruction. So it is a spiritual office. It's spiritual for the congregation, for the recipient and for the deacon. And so in the first place, you know, to considering training for a deacon place, to considering training for a deacon, there are many men out there who are gifted to do things and a deacon needs to get things done. So our temptation may be immediately to say if someone can get something done, he should be a deacon, and that fails that first observation that it's a spiritual office. If the deacon again going back to 1 Timothy if a deacon doesn't hold fast to faith with a pure conscience, and how does he do that if he's not spending time in the Word and in prayer? Now, these are the things that we tell everyone in our congregations. Right, you need to spend your time daily in the Word, daily in prayer, you need to devote yourselves to these things. So in one sense it's not any different command than is given to anybody else in the Church, but to a deacon there's the special import, and as a minister you know this. It's not because the ministers alone should read the word and should seek to understand the word, no, but there's a certain task that you've been given in your ordination to divide that word and make it plain to the congregation so that they would understand it. And so, in a similar way, for the office of a deacon, reading the word, spending time in prayer, these are all essential to them to fulfilling his ministry. And so that's where we would start, because then, as James says, if any of you lacks wisdom, pray for it in the Lord, and God, who gives liberallyally, will give this to you. And so that's the beginning of the deacon's work. If he's not in the word, if he's not in prayer, if he doesn't have wisdom to discern the need, then how can he fulfill the need? A man who simply does we may need men to do, but the deacon is the one who can then discern the need.

Jeremy Huntington:

The woman comes to Christ and the disciples and says have mercy on me. But she had a true need. She had a real need for mercy, not just and here's part of the wisdom that the deacons are going to need not just somebody who came to the church to say I want a bigger TV, I don't have the means of paying that. But that's not the spiritual ministry. And so the deacon is as much about meeting the temporal need as showing them their spiritual need. And so the Canaanite woman she had a need. It was a true need, it was a spiritual need, and she had faith.

Jeremy Huntington:

But through that process the disciples' eyes certainly had to be open that it was a spiritual need, not merely the temporal need, but the spiritual need that was at the heart of Christ's compassion. And so that's certainly what the deacon needs to develop. And so, to begin with, you need to spend time in the Scripture, spend time in prayer, pray for that wisdom that God promises in James. We have a dear man here in the congregation who has the biggest heart. He will help anybody who he thinks might need help. He's got a great desire to help people, but in the past it's also meant that people have tried to take advantage of him, and because there are people that in a fallen and corrupt world, will do that. And so the deacon needs to have wisdom to discern those, those occasions. But again, it's not merely the temporal need, it's coming back to that spiritual need that's at the heart of right.

Jeremy Huntington:

So Christ's response to the Canaanite woman was to commend her faith. So in counseling a new deacon, training a prospective deacon, to first set forth the that idea that it's a spiritual office that he's being trained for, that he's that he's fulfilling and not not just a. I mean mostly he's dealing with temporal needs, but not to lose sight of the fact that really at the heart of the care of the deacon is the spiritual need.

Chris Cashen:

Yeah, that's very helpful. Thank you Well, before we go, scott, I want to kind of drill down into some nuts and bolts, so to speak. This Canaanite woman seems to have had a lot of strikes against her as she comes to Jesus and the disciples. As you've already noted, they were likely busy. There was a lot going on. We never read about exactly what the disciples were doing, but we're sure they're doing something and they've got lots of going on. There are lots of people, but this was a woman which, in that time, brought particular things with it, but she was a Gentile. She wasn't one of them. Them, and so that happens quite often in diaconal ministries that you're presented with a sinner in need, and many times not within the church, and deacons are busy, busy, busy people. With regard to nuts and bolts, how you, when you've got a lot of good, important work that you're seeking to accomplish and now you're presented with an urgent request which wasn't planned for by some sinner, what's your heart look like when you receive that?

Scott Cormier:

Well, that is something that happens and it's something that we've had happen here at our church, and I know that this happens all over had all the OPC churches all over the country. I remember the first diaconal summit I went to, there was a time for question and answer and I think someone raised their hand and said I have this situation going on and what do I do about it, kind of a question. And it was exactly what I was thinking from my exact example that I had here, and then somebody else asked a similar question, and somebody else asked a similar question, and then when we had time to talk, all of this had come up obviously. So this is the kind of thing that comes up and I think we have to stop and step back, maybe have a quick prayer and then seek to advance or to address that issue. We've often had it where somebody will come in just before worship or in the middle of worship sometimes even In the past we've had that happen and so I'll have to step out of the sanctuary to talk with that person, and so it's just like what you're talking about, where it's kind of out of nowhere and it comes up like that. So we obviously we deal with that differently than people in the church, and the people in the church are, we know, we know their life story, we have a relationship with them, and so often when it's somebody coming in the church, we can err on the side of being generous, without questions maybe, or helping them later to think through the matters or to see what the issue is.

Scott Cormier:

But when it's somebody coming from outside the church, often that takes some care to make sure that the church's finances are not being used for something inappropriate. And we've had that happen at various times when I've researched, been able to look up information about a person and find out that there's other things going on there, legally or otherwise. But we have to remember that we don't know the eternal state of this person. The person that we're going to talk to may not have come to Christ. They may not be a believer yet. Christ, they may not be a believer yet, but it may be that our interaction with them, sharing the gospel while we show the love of Christ, may be the thing that draws them into the family of God. So I think that that is an important thing to remember when you're busy, when you have a lot going on and this immediate need comes up. This is a great opportunity that the Lord has put into your hands, and you've been given an opportunity to deal with this particular person. You don't know how it will end up, but you can seek to address it.

Scott Cormier:

Also, we often will tie these kind of needs when it's somebody coming from outside the church with worship, and so one aspect of receiving funds may be well, come to the worship with us, sit in with us, and then we'll talk about this after the worship service today or that kind of thing. And it's surprising how many times people are not willing to do that. They might show up just before worship, but they're not willing to come in to worship. They might show up in the middle of worship, but they're not willing to come in to worship. They might show up in the middle of worship, but they're not willing to come into worship. And so I even take that, as you know, something to be looked at. If someone is willing to come to worship and meet with me after and comes back multiple times, you know that can be dealt with in one way. If the person is just wants something right now and is going to leave if it's not given, obviously you handle that a different way. I'm not sure if that answered the question.

Chris Cashen:

but Well, yes, yes, of course you did. You already indicated, even in your busyness, you have got to be concerned, as Jeremy said, about the spiritual estate and how you're presenting Christ to this person, when this was not on your schedule, and that is part of the deacon's heart that you're able to say. You know what, lord, you've placed this before me for your purposes and I'm submitting to you and I need to minister to this person that you've given to me in such a way that Christ is exalted. Yeah, that's what I heard you saying, scott, and I appreciate that.

Chris Cashen:

You know, sometimes we can throw darts and arrows at the disciples, but they're such wonderful examples for us to use, in the positive and in the negative, and I think that's what this passage has done for us today to bring out first the heart of Jesus and then, what should our hearts look like? What should our deacon's hearts look like as they're presented with difficult diaconal issues? Well, thank you very much, jeremy and Scott, for taking the time to discuss a very important aspect of the heart of a deacon. I know there's much more we could discuss, but this was great and thank you for being with us and for your ministries there in North Carolina.

Jeremy Huntington:

Thank you, chris, thank you.

Chris Cashen:

And deacons, we hope this episode was and will be encouraging to you in your ministries and your labors for the Lord, and may the Lord bless you.