The Reformed Deacon

Real World Cases: Long Term Dilemmas Part 1

• a Podcast from the OPC Committee on Diaconal Ministries • Season 3 • Episode 19

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In this episode, host John Stahl, deacon at Emmanuel OPC in Wilmington, DE, and member of the CDM, leads a discussion with three fellow deacons: Lynne Hunter from Harvest OPC in Wyoming, Michigan; Bob Keys from Grace OPC in Columbus, Ohio; and Jared Gregg from Acacia OPC in Manassas, Virginia. The group explores dilemmas with significant long-term implications. They first address a situation involving a member who, due to an accident, requires extensive assistance. They then consider the case of a couple expecting their fourth child who is struggling to make ends meet. These discussions represent the first part of a two-part series.

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Lynne Hunter:

Hey, we had a man that was a teacher and a coach and now he's doing nothing. Hold it. My job is to encourage him to go back and get him back into life.

David Nakhla:

Welcome to the Reformed Deacon, a casual conversation with topics specifically designed to help local Reformed Deacons. There are nearly a thousand deacons in the OPC alone, so let's take this opportunity to learn from and encourage one another. We're so glad you could join us. Let's jump into our next episode.

John Stahl:

Hello, my name is John Stahl and I serve as a deacon at Emanuel OPC in Wilmington, delaware. I also serve on the OPC Committee on Diaconal Ministries. For this episode of the Reformed Deacon, I'm going to facilitate a discussion group we call Real World Cases. This episode will include scenarios that concern members of a local church, the household of faith. I'll describe the cases to our panel of deacons and we'll discuss possible responses to each case. These are fictitious situations but I think you'll find them realistic and applicable to your congregation. With me today are three fellow deacons Bob Keyes from Grace OPC in Columbus, ohio. Lynn Hunter at Harvest OPC in Wyoming, michigan. And Jared Grigg at Acacia Reformed Church, a mission work of the OPC in Manassas, virginia. Welcome, brothers Howdy.

Jared Grigg:

Good to be here.

John Stahl:

Well, let's get started with the first scenario. Tim has been a member of your church for the past five years. He has been in a wheelchair for almost 10 years following a skiing accident. He receives disability payments from Social Security and is living on that plus what is left from the equity. When he sold his house after the accident, he had been working as a teacher and football coach but has been unable to find employment since the accident. Tim has no family living at home. He cannot walk but can use his hands and arms and can generally take care of himself, though he often needs transportation to get to church and to run errands. He needs to have help cleaning his apartment twice a month.

John Stahl:

The church has a schedule to help with both recurring issues. Although he has been trying, tim has not been able to find another career. He has become discouraged and really doesn't look as actively as he used to. Discouraged and really doesn't look as actively as he used to. He's running out of funds and will soon need to live only on the disability payments.

John Stahl:

You don't know the details of Tim's condition. He may or may not have future complications as a result of his injuries. It seems likely that there will be some medical issues down the road due to his long-term confinement to a wheelchair. He tries, but it is difficult for Tim to participate actively in the church because transportation is a challenge. He really doesn't feel comfortable having people visit him at home because he has difficulty cleaning his apartment. You don't know if he has health insurance. He doesn't really like to talk about his condition, either physical or financial. You assume that the situation may be worse than he is admitting. Tim is requesting assistance with his rent payments until he can find employment. How would you and your deaconate approach this request and this member's related needs?

Jared Grigg:

Well, I guess I'll start off. I think this is a complex situation, but I think at the top of it, what immediately caught my eye when I went through this scenario was the fact that Tim's discouraged right, and there's a host of things that are discouraging for Tim right, and so we have a tendency as men to come in because we do have a heart for God's people and God has called us to mercy ministry, and we have a tendency to maybe come in and want to fix the problem right, or think that we have the ability to fix the problem in some way. But at the top of what Tim needs, tim needs to know that he's loved by the covenant community, and so that's going to be at the top of my list, before we get into the logistical things, is how do we as a diaconate locally come together and pray together so that we can be and use the resources of the community around us in the congregation to show Tim that he's loved? Because Tim doesn't you know part of it was, you know he didn't want people to come into his house, which means that he there's a burden of shame that Tim has, and I don't want Tim to feel shame because ultimately, like we can't fix the problem for Tim. We can just come alongside him and, you know, unwrap those grave clothes that he has on him. And you know we can't fix people's problems, but what we can do is we can love people through them.

Jared Grigg:

So that was that's where I would start with Tim. Now there's a host of other things, but that would be my intro is to pray for Tim and just really let him know that he's not alone, because a lot of times people in this situation that have disability or they're heavily discouraged, they feel isolated, and so I think our job as ministers of mercy in the beginning is to come alongside these people and be cheerleaders and say, hey, you're not alone. Right, like Jesus wept, we understand the pain and the hurt that you're going through, and that kind of will motivate people to get in the right direction. It kind of gets their mind moving if they know that they're not alone in the situation. So that's how I would attack initially, this.

John Stahl:

Yeah, I like your answer there, so let's stick with just that. The first step really is encouraging this brother in the Lord. As a deacon, would you feel like it's the deacon's job to do that, or is there another way to incorporate maybe others in the church?

Bob Keys:

I thought about one thing in particular Tim needs God's people but, even more importantly, God's people need Tim. We need to help Tim. Help us learn to care for those who have a hard time caring for themselves, to teach us selflessness and true love, true godly love. I saw I've been getting ready to teach a course on Paul David Tripp's book Instruments in the Redeemer's Hands, and there's one quote in there that I saw just a few days ago. That just man, I wish I'm going to memorize this. This is diaconal ministry at the very heart, and I think it's good for all these scenarios, and this is a quote.

Bob Keys:

Diaconal ministry is not about always knowing what to say. It is not about fixing everything in sight that is broken. Diaconal ministry is about connecting people with Christ so that they are able to think as he would have them think, desire what he says is best and do what he calls them to do, even if the circumstances never get fixed. Even if the circumstances never get fixed, it involves exposing hurt, lost and confused people to God's glory so that they give up their pursuit of their own glory and live for his. I think that's what all of our jobs are as deacons, and the small deacon, in terms of all the rest of the congregation and this is the focus I think we need to have, especially on long-term diaconal needs is to realize that we are there and we connect the church with this need. But in the process we are encouraged and benefited as a church because we learned what the love of Christ really looks like.

John Stahl:

Benefited as a church because we learned what the love of Christ really looks like. Good, Any other suggestions on the practical side maybe?

Bob Keys:

I think he needs a van. Why did it take 10 years for him not to get a van? He could not handle a handicapped van. Why? I mean the church should have gotten a handicapped van for him some way, somehow with the Presbytery or the CDM, somehow some way, and the church has done this, the Presbytery has done this, but he needs a van. I can't believe it's taken 10 years not to get a van. He's not getting around, he's not able to get outside, he requires dependency and he needs more independence. That's just a clear one for me. It should have been done 10 years ago. And I know they're expensive, but it's expensive not to have one for this dear man that has many gifts and needs to be using them in life.

Jared Grigg:

And that's why it's important to have more than one deaconess, because other men have ideas that you didn't even think about. I didn't even think about a van, and it's like a blaring, like well, yeah, he should get a van.

John Stahl:

A van might even help, not just help him out with his personal needs as far as we've already been delineated in the scenario, but even if he wanted to get some kind of part-time job that he would be able to do from a wheelchair job that he would be able to do from a wheelchair and, even more importantly, he could administer help to those in the church by taking them places rather than them taking him places.

Bob Keys:

I mean, get him involved in ministry himself. He's a coach, he's a teacher. What in the world? He's got great gifts of teaching, encouraging and blessing other people.

Lynne Hunter:

He's a gifted man. I was thinking the same thing, bob. I look at this and I see, hey, we had a man that was a teacher and a coach, and now he's doing nothing. Hold it. My job is to encourage him to go back and get him back into life, and so if it starts with a van, that's a great place to start, but it's also we as brothers have to encourage him to realize life didn't stop because of an accident. God put you here for a reason. There was an accident for a reason. You still need to glorify God. How do you use your earthly talents? We're gifted and we're made to work.

Bob Keys:

Disability doesn't matter but he can use his hands and if he uses his hands and his mouth, there's a million, 300 million jobs he can do. Well, maybe 200 million, but you know there's so many things this Tim can do. He really needs to move ahead with life, finding the right job that'll give him a sense of joy and worthwhileness. Tim needs to somehow move ahead with what he loves to do and helping him find that is what the deacon should be doing Right beside him. Move ahead and find a job that you can really minister to other people with your heart and your soul.

John Stahl:

And it is possible. I didn't even think about this. He's a teacher and a coach. You can teach I would think that you can teach from a wheelchair, so he could have a job as a teacher. He doesn't have to even change his career. Necessarily. It wouldn't be focused on the sports, the physical, Absolutely indeed, he can still coach.

Lynne Hunter:

Sure he can, can maybe better as a referee. I know more than one wheelchair coach, both on the football field and on basketball court.

John Stahl:

These guys coach really well sitting in a wheelchair and this is why we have multiple deacons, because my approach would have been well, let's set him up with a government job training if he wants to go on a different career, but he doesn't have to, so why even bother going through that more difficult and maybe less fulfilling avenue?

Bob Keys:

I would take him towards a motivational coach. If he's taught and he's been a coach, I think he could really be an effective motivational coach in life. I think he could do all kinds of wonderful things to encourage people, bless people. You know they're going to look at him and go. If he can do it, then I can too. And I just think that you know this is the way to encourage this man is put him in a place where he but 10 years without a job. I mean talk about dependency. They've bred dependency in this man because they haven't walked beside him and encouraged him and blessed him. And I don't think it'd take that many people in the church to do this. A handful could really bless and encourage this Tim through this time and get him to help and minister in the church himself.

Lynne Hunter:

So you think about what we've just been talking about how do we get him from the point where he's at to back into his career? Well, the way I look at it is we need to get him reinstated into church life, coming to Wednesday night programs, and if it means that for a year Lynn or Bob or John has to go pick him up, that's what we do, because while we do that, now we're fellowshipping. Now we're getting him to think, hey, I can do this. We get him to start teaching Sunday school, maybe co-teaching, so that he can realize, oh, I still have my brain, I still can teach children or adults. And we get him so that he gets rid of his depression, gets out of his apartment and people you know. He realizes, hey, this is what I can do. And at the same time the deacons start working on some of those other bigger problems. And by the church people seeing him coming to church, they're more than willing to help on the van side, donation or, however, things like that. Progress, however, things like that progress.

John Stahl:

Now we can give him a van, we can encourage him to be involved in body life and all, but he still has the rent payments that he apparently is not able to make on disability. So it would seem to me that there might be more immediate suggestions.

Lynne Hunter:

Immediate need. I need rent payment, I need food, I need to help this man get re-involved in church life Rent payment and food. You can set up a timeline and say okay, hey, for this many months, while we start doing these other steps, this is what we're going to do and you set a time period three months, six months, nine months, 12 months and there's evaluation.

John Stahl:

Yeah, payments out of the Deacons fund for that.

Lynne Hunter:

Yeah, yeah, and there's evaluation through these months. The reason I have no problem paying for it is because every time I give him a rent payment, guess what he has to talk to me Gives me that opportunity to talk to him about. Hey, how are things going? How's your walk with Christ? What are we going to do to move you forward?

John Stahl:

Good point.

Bob Keys:

As soon as he gets a van. I think that we need to get him over to our houses and again get him in the house somewhat, have two guys lift a wheelchair and get him in Fellowship. Being in other people's houses as well, I think, is so important and talking to him and encouraging him, I think again, the body of Christ can have a great ministry here and get him through it so he really believes he can teach and he can do the things that we've talked about. What a blessing.

Jared Grigg:

Yeah, I think you know, with Tim's situation, you know, I think you guys are describing diaconal mechanics and you're describing, you know, leading by example, and I think we have to address the elephant in the room. It's, in some cases, right, like we may do all these things for Tim and encourage him, and then everybody, like we can do everything right and at the end of the day Tim doesn't progress forward. Right, like providing the assistance for the rent, the electrical, the things, the emergency things that come up. Right, like we can stop the bleeding. But ultimately we have to understand and be conscious that Tim has to make that decision to do better for himself. Right, we can encourage and we can push forward.

Jared Grigg:

And I think some deacons, I know, in the beginning, like that discouraged me because I felt like I did these things and I and I spent so long talking to other deacons and trying to work through this process to help this person. But some of these folks, even in the public community, it was almost like they didn't want to help themselves and I had to learn a very hard lesson early on that I'm not here to, even subconsciously, I'm not here to save people, I'm here to point them to Christ. But ultimately that decision to get better. Whatever their issues are, they have to make the decision to do it. I can only encourage them, but I can't make the decision for them to get better, and sometimes they don't.

Bob Keys:

That's the discouragements of being a deacon, and any deacon that's served for any length of time goes through those difficulties of seeing people not respond to counsel, to wisdom, direction, and there's multiple reasons of why they don't. But ours isn't, again, to fix. Ours is to encourage, to bless, to show mercy without creating more dependency, and I think all that we've talked about, I think, is exactly what we as deacons do. But if you haven't had a failure in terms of getting someone to do what's right and best, then you haven't been a deacon very long. It's hard, deacon work is difficult, and what was the verse that talks about the tears, the veil of tears, but we will reap with a harvest. It's a Psalm and it's wonderful. It tells us even in the battles of life, God will give joy.

John Stahl:

All right, good. Any other thoughts on that particular scenario? Okay, good discussion. Let's continue with the next case. Years Jerry works a full-time but low-wage job and recently started a part-time night shift at a local factory. Molly indicated she isn't able to buy the food that she needs during pregnancy. They're on a high deductible insurance plan and are concerned they won't be able to pay the bills for the birth. The wife's family lives locally but doesn't attend church. They've started to accrue some credit card debt also. What are your thoughts on handling this younger family's needs?

Lynne Hunter:

I can say from harvest experience. We have partnered with a couple local food pantries where we give special permission for our people to join that food pantry, even if they're out of region. And that's where we would start is we would help this because it looks like that's their main need at the moment. So by them going to a local food pantry they can probably get their food budget to spread out a little bit. And I think that's where we'd start the electric bill and mortgage. Again. We're going to sit down with them and then we're going to start encouraging them and look at their budget and I know the first thing that will be said is well, how can you budget when there's not enough money coming in? Well, you have to know how much money is going out before you can realize what to do with how much money is coming in.

Jared Grigg:

Well, just to add to that just kind of whatn was saying, I mean it's important that you know people. People need to figure out how to get to the bottom line, right like what's. Once you figure out where you are, then a lot of times people I've noticed you know, dealing with budgets and things like that, it's the fear that people have of the unknown because they get, they get into life and they're doing this thing and this thing and the money's coming in and out and they don't really know exactly financially where they're at. A deacon, in this case I would want to slow the pace down, because a lot of times when I work with people, it's always people that call in and my rent's due tomorrow, type situations. But even in people in the church they got to that situation somehow, and so it's almost like they're in panic mode when they get here and this seems like a very stressful situation both for cherry and molly that I could really relate to in some ways, and so the first thing that I want to get them to do is slow down, take a deep breath. Can we help you work through some of the financial things? You know, we've done that in some situations where we've helped people and like we we're like, hey, can, can we look at your finances with you? You know, like we're not judging you, we just want to see like how we can help you fix this. Maybe you're there's something that you have you're not seeing, like you're spending too much money over here which kind of gets in for me.

Jared Grigg:

Me when it says that she isn't able to buy the food that she needs during pregnancy. What does that mean? Are you not able to buy from Whole Foods? Maybe there's another discussion that has to happen. That maybe is not a diagonal discussion there, but what does that mean? Is there a way that we can help you balance your budget a little bit more? Yeah, it's a tight situation, but it's just the season, you know, and it seems to me that Jerry, you know he's not afraid to work right. It's not a lack of Jerry not putting in the time. It seems like he's doing what he needs to do. So that's kind of my thoughts on the intro and what you guys think about that.

Bob Keys:

I like your talk, what you're saying, but I see a much deeper need and what I see is a wife that will have four children in five years, and I see a wife that is desperate. This is hard. Four children in five years is tough. I don't care who you are, superwoman or whatever, this is tough. She needs other women beside her to help her through this, a godly, older lady that can encourage her and bless her. Then she has a husband that's working by the time he travels 14, 15 hours a day. You have two people that are exhausted. You have two people that are. This is hard and I'm not saying life is not hard, because I know it is but you've got two people that are running at the ragged edge.

Bob Keys:

I believe that Jerry needs a better paying job. I mean, I'm not saying he doesn't need to cut expenses, I'm not saying that but to work a job and a half with a family of four children is difficult and they need better benefits if they can get them as well. So I'm not sure how to. I would counsel him on what his gifts are and trying to find a better paying job as well, not only cutting the budget I'm with you guys, but he needs a better paying job where he can be home with his wife helping with the family and encouraging her, because she is going to get burnout and if they have more children, it's even going to be a deeper and a harder situation for her.

Bob Keys:

My family's gone through that in terms of my daughter and it's not easy. It's hard. Her family and his family need to help as much as they're able to as well, and the church. It's hard and I don't have all the answers here. But, man, these two, jerry and Molly, need wisdom and need direction in their lives, not only financially but in many, many other ways.

Jared Grigg:

That's fantastic points, one of the things that kind of brought to my mind that we do at Acacia. I've been so encouraged by these women in our church that take care of each other and love each other. It's really cool tight-knit community to see that as a man and it's for my wife. We struggled with fertility for 10 years and so I know some of that in a way in a different angle. But man, just the love that the women in our church have shown my wife and then they do like at our church they have like a ladies movie night and they do it. They watch old movies or whatever and they do it like they're pretty spot on.

Jared Grigg:

Once or twice a month they on Friday nights, right, and then we plan that as men and sometimes we get together, we have fireside chats and so you know that coming alongside. I know it was encouraging for my wife to be in that room with those ladies and she needs that. That's part of her being involved in the local church is that she's plugged in with those women that can understand her and love her as sisters in the Lord. I totally, this is excellent. Yeah, I want to point her to those kind of things too things too.

John Stahl:

It would be beneficial for him as, going back to your other thought, Bob to make it possible for them to have a job that is better paying and has better benefits. So encourage him to think further on job training. He doesn't have to necessarily go to school. He could choose a trade, to be an apprentice or whatever.

Bob Keys:

There's lots of opportunities for better jobs. Yeah, just work with someone that's wise in your church to decide what gifts you have and how you can use those gifts better to make more money, and God will bless those things. I know he does and it may take some time and they may need some, as we said, budgeting and assistance, but again, in the long haul I would hope he could find a better job with better benefits and provide for his family in a much, much better way.

John Stahl:

Another aspect might be some government programs that would be available, not just Food bank, but there's other nutritional aid through the government that's available to needy families.

Bob Keys:

Yeah, I looked this up and Medicaid and food stamps and other federal local programs with employment less than depends on the state between 50 and 65,000, you can qualify for child Medicaid and food stamps and other SNAP-type programs. So again, I'm assuming he's earning less than $65, but that's an assumption. If he's earning $65, I think again it's going to be difficult but I still think he can provide for his family at $65. So if he's earning less than that, then there's government programs that he's paid into with a social security that he is able to benefit from. So I would certainly be looking at that as a diaconate to help him into that as well. So again, those numbers are pretty high. For a family of six it's that kind of number.

John Stahl:

It's interesting we haven't yet discussed the one point and maybe you've already thought about it and just haven't had the opportunity to bring it out, but it's specifically. We've been talking about how the church can evolve, how the deacons can be involved in their lives, but can we, or should we, incorporate the Weiss family who's in town? How can they help in?

Bob Keys:

this. Well, one clear thing I think I kind of hinted at was the family needs to be in both. Families need to be involved. If they're anywhere's local, even if they have to drive, they need to be involved in their grandchildren's lives. This is important in the grandchildren's lives as well. One mother can't do everything for these four children, and especially these young children, so having grandparents involved it should be good for them and it should certainly be good for this family, and having even financial assistance from them now is so critical in terms of don't wait to give them money. They need money now to help them and encourage them through this time and always the first channel of help should be from family. Absolutely, this would be an encouragement as well. If at all possible, their family should be involved in this financial and this mentoring and encouraging of the grandchildren and their kids through this hard time.

John Stahl:

And it might be that the deacons, the church, becoming more actively involved in the family's life. That would be an encouragement, a stimulus to the wife's family, because it could be that they might have some negative reactions to Jerry for some reason and if they know that their church is on board with their situation, then that's an encouragement to the family who should be more involved. Any other thoughts on this particular scenario?

Jared Grigg:

The only last thought that I had, which at the end, where it says they have started to accrue some credit card debt for me, just from a logistical standpoint, I'm going to want to attack that first with them, like, let's nip this in the bud because of the. This is going to be a violent cycle. Credit card companies don't like you, they're not your friends. They're there to take advantage of people if they can, and so like. For me, there's going to be a lot of education on like okay, let's get out of that. Like this is the emergency is to get out of that. So we're not paying minimum payments and then we're never getting out of debt. So and that's where I think Dave Ramsey, her family, needs to come in and they need to be a line of defense for them as well. That's a biblical concept and I think it's.

Jared Grigg:

Oftentimes it is complicated because, you know, living in a fallen world is complex and sometimes people you know when you get married, you marry that family too, whether you like it or not, and sometimes they don't like you, and so that could like it or not, and sometimes they don't like you, and so that could be the situation for Jerry is that they don't like him and they're like see, we told you, and so maybe there's some resentment and bitterness, and where they're not, they're not going to get involved. And I think at that step that's a different scenario than them just being like well, I don't want to go to my mom because I'm embarrassed, I'm embarrassed. So I think you kind of got to read between the lines there and use wisdom and trust the spirit about how to approach that from a diaconal standpoint too.

Bob Keys:

There's one last big point here as well. She's having a baby and there is hospital bills coming and again I don't know, but I would certainly, as a deacon, try to look into all the options. They have to have this paid for by the hospital and by other means with their income. As it is, I think that's something that again, I don't know whether it will work, but you need to do everything you can to get those bills paid for and keep the bills as low as we can for them by looking at all the different programs that are there for low-wage families with five people in their family. So again, that goes along with what I'd said before You've got to be there to help them, because they probably aren't aware of what kind of help there is for their situation. So walk beside them, help them to understand and do everything you can to reduce those bills to as low as they have and then, if you need to help, and if the hospital bills aren't overwhelming for both church and family.

John Stahl:

My understanding is hospitals are willing to work out a payment plan or even not even pay at all. Yeah, eliminate some of the yeah, or even not even pay at all.

Bob Keys:

Yeah eliminate some of the yeah yeah, we had a member of our church and they had a large bill and the insurance company and the hospital forgave, I think, $20,000. So again, there are ways that this can all get worked out normally. And just look at what options you have and pray that God would provide for this family in ways that sometimes we don't even understand. But God can do.

John Stahl:

But just telling Molly, telling Jerry and Molly, that that's an option, that's a possibility to work out with the hospital would probably relieve a lot of Molly's stress at this point.

Jared Grigg:

Yeah, and that's the other thing too, like with the hospital bills. I mean, one of the one of the beautiful things about being in the OPC is that we have different levels diagonally, which you guys already noticed. But just for our listeners, if the local deacon is not able to meet that fund, then they can go to the next level, which is regional level, and then they can go to the next level, the national level. And so while I've had this actually happen to me, in 2014, I had a lung collapse which is kind of funny because I'm a short guy and stout guy, so it normally doesn't happen to guys like me but like that happened to me and I cured hospital bills that were $20,000, $30,000. And this is very personal to me and you know I didn't have insurance at the time and I was newly married and trying to figure life out.

Jared Grigg:

My local diaconate couldn't take that weight, and so they went to the presbytery level and then other churches helped pay for my bills and they helped us work out Even with the hospital. They had made some calls. I had some guys in here that knew what they were doing and knew how to talk, and deacons did that work. They said we're going to slash this bill. My wife did a lot of that too. She's pretty good at it as well, and they helped. I paid a good amount, but they paid for my medical bills, and so, particularly if they're in an opc church, it's not just your church in long range land way out there, there's a presbytery under here, it's a beautiful, you know, being a biblical church like that.

Jared Grigg:

Right, we're following what Paul did next, so we have the larger community with us.

John Stahl:

Amen, that's great. We're going to stop there with this episode, since it's running a bit long, but hang tight. Next week we plan to release the other two scenarios this group contemplated, one having to do with a year-long intern with car trouble and the other about empty nesters who are struggling to pay their bills. Be sure to come back for those.

David Nakhla:

Thanks for joining us. Go to our website thereformedeaconorg. There you will find all our episodes, program notes and other helpful resources, and please make plans to join us again next month for another episode of the Reformed Deacon Podcast.