Top of Mind with Tambellini Group
Top of Mind with Tambellini Group
Digital Accessibility: What’s Next for Higher Ed?
While there isn’t one single definition of digital accessibility that applies to all higher education institutions, there are guiding principles that all should follow. Our Top of Mind guest this month, Brian Fodrey, Carnegie Mellon University’s Assistant Vice President of Business Innovation, shares the guidelines and steps his institution followed in creating their Digital Accessibility Office.
Hello, and welcome to Tambellini Group's March Top of Mind podcast. I'm your host, Liz Ferrell. This month we're exploring the topic of digital accessibility on campus. We all know that when the pandemic forced an abrupt pivot to remote learning, it serviced a lot of challenges and limitations that were stemming from the widespread use of teaching and learning technologies. And we also know that the remote environment had uneven and often detrimental impacts on many students and faculty for various reasons. Despite their best efforts, many colleges struggle to create a more equitable virtual campus on the fly as they took an ad hoc approach to finding workaround solutions to the problems that arose during a quite unpredictable time when everyone was clearly overextended. But as a silver lining, faculty and institutional leadership across the country were forced to more closely examine how issues of diversity, equity, accessibility, and inclusion were affecting their communities on multiple fronts, especially when it came to technology. As things settled into a new normal, we saw more institutions formingDEI committees and elevating DEI leaders to explore more ways to remove barriers and improved digital accessibility to help all students succeed. So, where are we now in a world where AI and data analytics are becoming all the more pervasive, along with concerns about their biases? What steps can and should institutions take to ensure digital accessibility? Our guest today is the ideal expert to answer those questions. I'm so excited to be joined by Mr. Brian Fodrey, who serves as Assistant Vice President of Business Innovation at Carnegie Mellon University, where he has been a key leader involved in building CMU's Digital Accessibility Office since it was founded in 2021. Welcome, Brian.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Liz. I appreciate the opportunity to be here.
Speaker 1:Well, we appreciate having you. Let's start off with some level setting here. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and the institution you're at?
Speaker 2:Sure. So, I've been very fortunate to work in higher education for over 20 years now at all different types of institutions. Over the course of that time, I've had the opportunity to grow as a leader and gain experience in working formally as a CIO and Vice Provost for Educational Technology, as well as an adjunct instructor. In my current role at CMU, I've had the chance to work with partners all across our campus, and including along with the responsibility for the digital accessibility office, which has really allowed me to draw on my experience and, and help in leading what is considered to be a, a very important initiative here at CMU.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great way to start us off because you mentioned there the opportunity in this role to work with a, a lot of partnerships, collaborate with a lot of different groups. So love. Why don't we begin with a definition of digital accessibility in the broadest sense. I've read this great article with predictions from all these experts and Campus Technology Magazine, and actually our CEO was one of the people quoted there as well. But, there was something you said that really struck me. You said digital accessibility is far more than a regulatory and compliance measure associated with risk mitigation or a content design strategy. So what do you mean by that? Like, what is this again, broad definition of digital accessibility?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, when I think about digital accessibility, I really think of three words. Understanding access and equity. Digital accessibility shouldn't be considered, you know, when just a software application is written or a website designed or a PDF composed. It's really everywhere in our lives from how we evaluate and procure digital solutions. For our respective organizations, consume digitized content, you know, technology is simply a tool and it certainly has a role in digital accessibility. But in the end, you know, where I come from is a shared place of understanding that digital presence and content should be and can be accessed equitably by all.
Speaker 1:It's very holistic understanding of how it works. It's not just sort of a check the box on, does this tool have close captioning? It sounds like.
Speaker 2:Right. Although an important aspect.
Speaker 1:Very important aspect, which I hope we get to more in a bit. What is the ideal state of digital accessibility? We've got a definition there, right? If you're thinking of, gosh, you could have everything at every institution in the most ideal way to serve every student, what would that look like from a digital accessibility perspective?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is a great question. And, giving it some thought, I tried to make a, compare contrast. So, you know, the best way I can describe it is something that is innate to how we interface with digital content and other technology driven functions. I sometimes think about digital accessibility similar to how a lot of organizations aspire their information security program, for example, a hallmark of good information security program is it's baked into how a person leverages a particular tool service to achieve their respective goal, right? Whether that's through access, content delivery, you know, just to name a few examples. But, you know, with an underpinning that there's a shared value for both the organization and the person of their own digital safety. I would love to be in a place where digital accessibility was top of mind, again, to steal from your podcast title. Those that think about and are responsible for the design of technology, as well as sort of more broadly digital content in general. Because ultimately design and consumption are codependent.
Speaker 1:I like that. Can you explain to us a bit bit what you mean by that? That statement design and consumption are co-dependent?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, I think one, it forms the other, right? So I think the natural dependency between the way we develop something and the way it's ultimately consumed through any development life cycle, it's a cyclical feedback loop, right? So making sure that we're considering the end result in the manner for which we're designing, w e'll p rove for a better result all around. And, you know, my thinking is you know, digital accessibility, just as if we wo uld t hink about user experience and making sure, you know, the button's on the right versus the left, the person reads left or r ight, you know, we're baking that into the way we're thinking about, y ou kn ow, our designing of technology and ultimately the way people, we intend people to consume it, but frankly, how we're meeting them, where they'll consume it.
Speaker 1:It's interesting as you say that I see this parallel between what you were saying earlier about the information security program. Like it seems to be the same thing would apply to information security, right? Because you've gotta think about, well, this is how we would hope people would use it, but ideally, like maybe we do need two factor authentication there, because of what could happen
Speaker 2:Ex Exactly. E exactly.
Speaker 1:So I would assume, just because this is true of everything in higher ed, there's probably a lot of variance and how institutions, operate when it comes to their awareness and how far along they are in the continuum for digital accessibility. Like, do you think that this is something that's there's widespread awareness of the need for it? Like would you say there's a continuum and there's an average university sort of where they're at or in any sort of post-secondary institution?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, certainly think there's an awareness and I certainly think that there is, you know, kind of room for growth across the board for all, all across higher ed. Thinking about, you know, kind of beyond awareness and sort of how you kind of take the general sort of special understanding that digital accessibility is out there moving into action. You know, digital accessibility is a team sport. Just like cybersecurity, community involvement is a hallmark to how successful any one institution can be. From content creators like faculty and instructional designers to technicians that could include software developers, technical support to procurement, legal and finance teams contracting compliance policy. All pillars to any institution that you would find and including vendors. And where most institutions rely on the vendor for more than just licensing. I mean, everybody should have an awareness, but you know, also a role to play in digital accessibility at that institution.
Speaker 1:So when you say everyone should have awareness. But there's a role that they have to play, that takes me to, you know, you came on to CMU when this digital accessibility office was just getting off the ground. Do you think that many institutions have this type of office designated?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I certainly don't know, you know, have any visibility into, you know, which and how many or even institution types, you know, have specific digital accessibility offices or operate within a name or title as such. But, you know, thinking about it more broadly, you know, the absence of the title or office at any one institution, I don't think should imply disinterest or not compliant. So if you're listening today and thinking, I don't have a digital accessibility office, I would probably argue and firmly believe that most if not all institutions do have advocates throughout their organizations that are encouraging others to think about and influence their work in a, in a, in a way that, you know, would, would meet digital accessibility standards, but but also have processes and work tasks that support digital accessibility in some way. They, we, they might have just called it that, or it might be baked into a larger effort. And I think, you know, there's, there can be reward and oftentimes a good place to start and sort of sussing that out and sort of starting to sort of see what, what work is already being done on your campus and how you can either build on that momentum or start to catalog it in a way that, you know, allows you to kind of, you know, take audit and decide where to go next.
Speaker 1:And I think you had mentioned too that there are the focus, particularly with the office at your institution is threefold on this out outreach awareness and compliance. Yep. Can you explain those sort of three legs of the stool there? A little bit about each, each?
Speaker 2:Sure. Yeah. I mean, I love being a part of a formal digital accessibility office. So as much as I say, you know, I think there's a lot of work that's probably already being done. You know, having a formal, you know, digital accessibility office within, within our campus community, you know, to achieve those three 10, you know, to work towards or should say achieve, to work towards those three, those three tenants, you know, really does allow us to empower our campus community to move forward in a positive direction and create a shared understanding and appreciation for how digital accessibility fits into that role. You know, the outreach, specifically outreach awareness and compliance, you know, you can, if you take the time to, I mean, they're all interrelated and co-dependent of each other, right? So one informs the other, you know, a similar way we talked earlier, but in different ways, you know, for, for, for outreach, for, for the digital accessibility office, I'm a part of now, you know, really taking the opportunity, when it's afforded to us or, you know, kind of pursuing them when they're available is really connecting with our community in a way that sort of announces both our presence, but also the resources and support we're able to provide. From an awareness standpoint, you know, again, things that we've talked about already, but really, you know, starting to find that people start to think about digital accessibility in a more proactive and deliberate way. But then also more than that, you know, find ways to sort of scaffold them up and offer opportunities for people to sort of really take steps in their, in their growth in this space in terms of technical training and things like that. And then compliance, of course, is an underpinning for a lot of it, because it's really like most, most things, you know, it allows us to really have footing and sort of something that kind of draw back to and refer to as we think about how we prioritize resources a nd the work that we need to accomplish. You know, that that governs things that far beyond our one institution.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that's, I think of compliance as always the trickiest thing, and I don't wanna get into the weeds on that or anything, right. But it must also be helpful that there are, you know, some external standards. So it's not all just on the institution to decide how it's defined that there are national best practices or standards in place.
Speaker 2:Right. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and one thing I even, you know, failed to mention at the question about sort of the digital accessibility presence within office presence within even a campus. Digital accessibility office is just in general also don't always sit organizationally in the same place, too. So I think about there are people that are probably at an institution that may not even be aware that there is a digital accessibility office because of their visibility to any one different part of the institution. So, you know, I think there's also, you know, a lot of creative freedom and sort of licensed with any one institution, sort of the way it aligns itself. So again, it's just another lessons learned than I've had is tthat there is no one standardized way of the way these offices sort of take shape and sort of take hold into one institution.
Speaker 1:But as you mentioned, you know, the awareness being a big part of the approach there. To your point that, you know, if they sit in different places and people aren't aware of them, it's not so much where they sit, it's, well, how much visibility do people have of the services available and how to take advantage of them, right. No matter where it sits, sounds like. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:So not every institution is exactly where it wants to be on all this. Some are probably pretty far behind. I mean, why do you think that? We've had two year, now three years now actually of trial by fire with everyone having, it seemed like on a daily basis things were popping up. Gosh, we never thought about, we never thought about the fact that some of our students like, don't have any quiet place to, you know, take a course, interact with their classmates, do other things remotely at home. We didn't think about how certain students with learning differences might be impacted by proctor and software, software or other things. Why do you think still to this day, after all that time and effort that some institutions are still behind or not where they'd like to be? Like, why do you think this is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think most institutions have a lot coming at them at one time. And you know, like time, money, resources are limited. And so I think it goes back to what we talked about earlier and, you know, a formaloffice, a formal office or title isn't necessarily the only barometer to how an institution approaches digital accessibility. But I do think, you know, we all could agree, like you mentioned earlier, this already, that we could more can be done. And in some cases it is being done, but the process iis iterative and hopefully more and more institutions started making investments in this space in a way that makes sense for them. Versus the sort of one size fits all. This is the only way we can move forward thinking. Because again, like I said, I think there is no done in this space. It's continues to be an iterative opportunity for everyone,
Speaker 1:With everything with technology, right? Because the ground zone moving beneath our feet. So we have to figure out how, how these various things can help hinder or augment other priorities. There was something else I noticed on Carnegie Mellon's digital accessibility office webpage. I read that improving accessibility improves the user experience for everyone. And that to me seems like something like, well, I hadn't thought about that. Like, why would I need something, you know, for someone who's hearing impaired, I'm not hearing impaired or other examples of that. I mean, can you explain what you mean by that?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or, what the office means by that rather?
Speaker 2:Right, right. That's right. Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. I'm glad you asked it. And, you know, our intent was really to sort of bring visibility to digital accessibility in the fashion that you're bringing. Right. Sort of open the dialogue and, you know, it's something I've learned working in this space that how people interact with technology and consume digital content is personal. And it doesn't always look the way you might traditionally think about success. Accessibility, excuse me. I think about things like comprehension, learning style, situational setting context, learning environment, or frankly just a person's general comfort, like you mentioned in terms of sort of their personal situation of where they study, where they work, where they, you know, do these things. You know, ensuring we are offering experiences to our community that meets them where they are is critical to their success and ultimately ours. Because that's why we're here. So, why not think about digital accessibility through the lens of approved user experience for all rather than as an accommodation or exception?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Because it is something we all need. I mean, we all have the ways we're most receptive to gathering information. Like I know I'm very bad at. Which is ironic to say we're having a podcast conversation, but absorbing information orally, like it is better for me to read right along to something. Which brings me to something I also noticed on the website page that speaks to your point. And it said 90% of students use closed captioning to improve their comprehension of multimedia. That's not 90% of students who have some sort of processing challenge. That's just students in general. So I think that that speaks very aptly to the point you're making there, that there are things that improve and give options to everyone.
Speaker 2:Well, it does and and I think it goes back to what you and I mentioned earlier about sort of the idea that design and consumption are hand in hand, right? It's, it's, it's, there is purpose and practice for understanding the way, designing our content with the idea of at least having some informedness to how people, we expect people to consume it mm-hmm. Rrather than how what we expect people, the ex you know, the expectant way to how, how we think people will consume it. And you know, and I think that's a great, I mean, that statistic alone should, should sort of enlighten that, right? That, you know, closed captioning, you know, is being utilized by population of people that you might not otherwise think that element, maybe 5% is using it or something like that. So, so being sort of deliberate and thinking about that on the front end I think really does sort of open your eyes and ultimately make for a better user experience for everyone. Which, like I said, you know, go back to our, what I just mentioned, you know, why not think about digital accessibility as an improved user experience rather than just as a, as an accommodation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it's just even sometimes a convenience thing. Like I think of right, when I'm scrolling through my phone, I follow a lot of media sites and news sites and they'll have great little video stories, but I don't usually have the sound for my phone on. And I love that it always has the text scrolling, but I would never think to ask for that or to configure it to do it. But it's just, it means I'm going to get more content than I normally would cuz I may be doing something else where the sound is on. So it's really, really cool the way you've described that there. There's also a fundamental principle I know you all have at CMU and think that this is a best practice a lot of people would say, and that is that everyone is responsible for making sure the resources they create are digitally accessible. But then I also think of, you know, oh, that's great in practice, but then there's that old saying that when everyone is responsible, no one is accountable. So, clearly there is a need for programs and standards. So you're coming off of, and I know you're presenting on this at a conference in, in the very near future, like the first year of building this, this big program. So it can be daunting always to know where to start. I mean, where do you begin in building this? Is it the culture? Is it something else where you have this collective responsibility, but also there's clear roles and accountability for honoring that responsibility?
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. Again, I appreciate the question and you know, and I think...I'll start by going back, you know, to something we talked about a second ago.,Digital accessibility, like information security, is everyone's responsibility, right? So, and most institutions are big places and everyone has a hand in making sure we're doing our best in making it accessible as possible. Just like in cyber, you know, if you get a spam email and don't click on the link and enter your login credentials. You know, instead you report it. Same i s true i n digital accessibility, right? So if you find yourself or others around you with an accessibility or experience limitation as it relates to content or access, speak up and work with those at your institution that might be able to help. I mean, it's ultimately the responsibility of the institution. You know, to your point about, well, at the end of the day, it's when it's everybody's, it's nobody's. I think at the end of the day, it's ultimately the responsibility of the institution or the content owner, the organization, to make sure those reporting structures exist. The outreach and training development are offered. Compliance is understood to help us prioritize and, you know, scale effort But ultimately, you know, foster a culture of shared responsibility. And let it be celebrated and appreciated as a community of effort and learning. Rather than sort of a very...
Speaker 1:Top down.
Speaker 2:Compliance-driven measure. Top down. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's the, if you see something, say something
Speaker 2:You, right, right. Exactly. And I think there's just this innate fear of sort of reporting, either way. And, I know there are, there are contexts for why that some of that is. And, you know, the reporting things and things like that. So, you know, I think, you know, going back to the reporting structures, you know, I think there's even opportunities there for people to provide that feedback without feeling connected to it in a way that makes them uncomfortable. So, so again, all spaces for learning and growth, but I think we just need to think of it as that way rather than sort of, sort of works or it doesn't
Speaker 1:So what would you say are the key components to a digital accessibility program? Like, I know at Carnegie Mellon, it's in the Office of the CIO. You've held a CIO role before. You've been a teacher. You've been in edtech. So again, knowing that there are variances, there's no one right way to do it. Can you talk about what are the different campus stakeholders and departments that do need to be involved for these efforts to work?
Speaker 2:Right. Yeah. I mean, you know, so many efforts, and it's like the award show at this point. If I start listing people, I'm almost, almost inevitably going to not list someone, but they're going to say, someone listening is gonna say, oh my gosh, what do you mean you didn't say them? So I will say it is a, I think it should be a healthy dose of both administrative and academic units. Okay. But in thinking about, you know, I think, but think it might be a little different based on institutional work chart, like you described and you know, what coordination needs to take place. So in thinking about it a little bit more sort of abstractly but with a takeaway is, you know, my recommendation would be is if you think of it like a governance model, you know, build recommend mechanisms like leadership groups, advisory councils, working groups, executive sponsorship. In this case, you really are embracing the community and shared responsibility way of thinking, like we talked about earlier. You're also creating a structure that would allow you to develop, you know, charters of work roadmaps, assessments, you know, kind of brass tacks rubber meets the road type of outcomes that start to bring efforts to light that, you know, may already be happening. Like we also mentioned earlier, I mean, it also allows you to make the case of inevitable, uyou know, further investment and support moving forward. I think, you know, if you can get the right initial select view of people participating in a structure that of some kind like that, that fosters collaboration, you know, with clearly laid out goals, you can capitalize on their passion and advocacy, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:A momentum towards the digital accessibility, again, in a context and way that makes sense for you and your institution.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It seems like from what you're saying, you can, you know, there's not always one place where you have to start. It's more important just to start somewhere and build on that.
Speaker 2:Right? Yep. Well said.
Speaker 1:What about with students? That is one thing, you know, not to say the award thing, the one you forgot, right? I mean, it seems like it's important to have their input as well.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. So, you know, we currently participate at CMU, we participate in a few different student-driven organizations that allows us to, you know, have feedback, but you know, more than, you know, just sort of use them as a way to sort of solicit feedback and sort of trial ideas and policies and initiatives and things like that. They really are partners. We have had plans and a re a ctually, we have in the past and as well as h ave plans to work with students as subject matter experts in this area. I mean, CMU of course, you know, has a lot of, you know, super smart, talented people, u p and down the organization a nd including students and, y ou know, being able tto leverage them f or more t han just t heir perspective and sort of allow them to show leadership in this space, j ust like we would in most other governing boards that we would have. You know, in my past in IT, it is, I think it is when you think about resources and people and sort of trying to build a coalition of people that can actually do the work, I think your point is well taken. I think students can be an engine. Can help with that beyond just sort of be the-final end product feedback group that you get to find out if you did it right or wrong. It really does offer new, different opportunities as well.
Speaker 1:That's really interesting. So, at CMU, you have, you've talked about, you know, there's students who are involved in other things, and you've mentioned so many different people involved. It must have been very dynamic here, and I know this isn't all you're doing. So I guess the next question could be when do you sleep? But go ahead. Let's just talk about let's, what has been accomplished thus far Yeah. By the office here at CMU. Like what was, was there a first milestone you've reached? Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that's a great question and this is gonna be a direct shout out. One of the first accomplishments was hiring a digital accessibility coordinator. When we did that, we brought her in as both a subject matter expert as well as someone who could sort of bring a passion and commitment for working with the CMU community. Our goal at the time, what our goal was, and still this is to build the trust with our campus partners and prioritize what we can do to help inform and support them where possible and empower them to continually do the great work that they do for our community. We want, you know, digital accessibility to be viewed as not, not viewed as another duty as assigned or barrier, but really as sort of as a resource and opportunity for people as they create their content. And the digital accessibility coordinator is immensely key in that. She is by far, you know, kind of the driver for so much of that. Some other milestones sort of beyond sort of that is, you know, seeing our influence beginning to inform the community bringing digital accessibility in the conversations that otherwise may not have been as prevalent, or just as a risk mitigation or compliance mechanism. And instead, you know, as a proactive interest and desire—a desire. My proudest moments are—to be perfectly frank—my proudest moments are when someone from the campus community reaches out to us okay. And says, Hey, we've attended one of your workshops, subscribe to your newsletter, attended one of the meetings we've presented, visited our website, you know, what have you. But it's caused them to think about their work differently. And they want to talk with us about what might be possible for not just them, but the whole section of the campus community that they might be a part of or represent. And, you know, and again, to the point about students, you know, this ranges faculty, staff and students. One more is the facilitation of upbringing, digital accessibility expertise to the campus through formal education. So everything we've talked to up until now has been sort of very informal—for the lack of another way to describe it. Right. But it's, you know.
Speaker 1:Organic I would say.
Speaker 2:Organic, yes.
Speaker 1:You're not giving yourself enough credit there. There has been a lot done. But you're right. Yeah. I know what you mean.
Speaker 2:But our digital accessibility coordinator partnered with a professional association, i n the field and they were, you know, she's recruited key contributors across our spaces on campus and, you know, f ormed essentially what, you know, we call professional learning community that is designed as such that will yield them an opportunity to take an assessment to earn a related digital accessibility certification that's industry recognized. Right? So this is a way for us to sort of have this coalition effort of people across our campus that share an advocacy, share a passion, have a general interest and ability to influence t heir work, but now we're bringing new skills a nd that sort of, you know, to their otherwise non-digital accessibility role, right. And it informs their work. So, th at one I w e're particularly excited about as well. And I think that will again, just continue to build the credentials of digital accessibility within our institution in a li ttle m ore formal way than sort of some of these other ways we've talked about.
Speaker 1:It sounds, it's very much an agile model thing, you know? Yeah. You're trying a lot of different things. It's That's right. Let's experiment as we go and iterate as we go. I mean, it's really Yeah. Cool. That way. And I, I love this barometer you have of, you know, when someone of their own accord reaches out. That's a great, I think, if I were doing this work that would be for me, oh, this is sticking, like Right. They're coming to us now. Right. It's not just all flowing one way.
Speaker 2:That's right. Have meeting. That's right. Just showing up at every meeting we can, right? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Someone actually listened and thought about this. Wow. That's right. Right? So what are the offices' priorities and goals for the coming year now that you've got this groundwork laid, you know, you've got people coming into the molds, you've got a lot of—or coming into the fold, rather,— you've got a lot of informal education going on. What's next?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the biggest next thing for us is, you know, in the coming months we, we plan to support together a campus-wide event focused around global accessibility Awareness day, which is on May 18th. Okay. This'll be a great opportunity, you know, this'll be a great opportunity for our campus community to get, you know, gather around, share, you know, share topic of digital accessibility, workshop that learn from each other, as well as from important contributors like we talked about earlier, you know, in terms of people, you know, getting certifications and sort of that group. But then also we're hoping to bring in some leading experts, some with particularly, you know, within the CMU world and, you know, kind of have a day of digital accessibility and global awareness. And yeah, I think we're excited about it. It's something that expands our portfolio in terms of the way we've done outreach to our campus community. So I think that is certainly a date we have circled coming up in the coming year.
Speaker 1:Nice. What would you say is the most important lesson you've learned after this? What, now you've been there two years and with this office from the beginning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think the most important lesson I've learned is that, you know, while I think everyone can agree on this, on its importance and every, especially when you think about, you know, the, we all work in higher education or, you know, the folks I work with work in higher education and not everyone shares that passion or mandate for wanting to make or be a part of the change in work necessary. I mean, and again, I don't think it's because of a devaluing, but because not making the connect, because I'm not sure they are always making the connection of how their work relates to ensuring it's digital digitally accessible. Okay. And I think that's our mandate, right? That's our challenge, right? It's our job to help close that, that understanding, misunderstanding and, you know, and change approach. So, you know, I think that is the one thing, you know, you get this new office, you think, well, of course, you know, we're gonna just kind of, you know, we build it and they will come. And I think there is, I think there's more work to be done there than think, you know, eyes wide open is always probably the best approach for most things, and it certainly is here as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it's interesting when you say you think you get this office and everything else, we always hear people say, I only had the funding for this if I only had, and it's never just that, right? You've got to. It's got to be more of that holistic cultural change and awareness that let's face it, always takes time to build, no matter you could have unlimited funds unless you're gonna go around and pay everyone a million dollars to care about everything. It's not possible.
Speaker 2:Right. Like you said, even then there's only so much time in the day. You're right. No, it's right.
Speaker 1:Exactly. That's right. Well, before we close things out. Really enjoy this conversation with you, and I think it'd be great if you could share any advice with our listeners from this experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know, I think, you know, be patient calculated. I mean, the narrative you said early in the role of, you know, digital accessibility has within your institution is key. You know your organization's culture best, right? So take comfort in that and find ways to fold digital accessibility into the conversation if it isn't already. And, build the support rapport you think is necessary for moving your priorities forward. Understanding that, again, everything looks a little bit different within the walls of any given institution. So, you know, and, but, but you know, that being said, I will say one of the things that I took comfort in and sort of tried to conceptualize and sort of help build this forward is, you know, I reached out to a lot of different colleagues at partners and peer schools. Early in the process just to understand, you know, what they're doing and you know, and you know what, and then take that information and sort of inform my approach and, you know, and I'm still doing that today. So, and that's one of the great things about higher ed is there's such a community that's, you know, beyond just any one given institution. So I think, you know, this is no exception to that. And you know, I think the more you can learn from others and then apply it in the context of your own setting, the better off you'll be.
Speaker 1:That's great advice, Brian. And I really appreciate you taking the time to, to share your insights and experience with all of us. So thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, Liz. I appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 1:And that concludes this month's Top of Mind Podcast. Don't forget to check out our other podcasts, blogs, and videos at thehetambellinigroup.com.