Top of Mind with Tambellini Group
Top of Mind with Tambellini Group
The Unicorn CIO: Combining IT and Instructional Design Expertise
A CIO with academic technology expertise is a rare yet valuable asset to any institution. With a PhD in instructional design, Dr. Patricia Kahn, CIO at College of Staten Island-CUNY, is one of those IT unicorns.
In our latest Top of Mind podcast, she shares her method for collaborating with leadership peers in vetting and choosing the right mix of academic technology tools to ensure flexibility in teaching, learning, and working environments in an unpredictable world.
Welcome to the April Tambellini Group Top of Mind Podcast. I'm your host, Liz Farrell. This month we are examining how collaborations can and should work between CIOs and academic technology leaders. As we reached the three year mark, since COVID began, higher education has had the chance to closely evaluate how various technologies they experimented with on the fly have worked and not worked. One big area where the air continues to be rapid evolution is in how institutions are changing their modalities and structure for delivering courses, as well as the various teaching and learning technologies they use to meet their constituents needs. With the benefit of hindsight and the experience of mass experimentation over the past few years, we've reached a golden opportunity for institutional leaders to work collaboratively to make better and more strategic decisions about the mixes of courses they offer and the related technology investments in teaching and learning technologies. But who makes these decisions about how to move forward and how much in input should come from a CIO and IT leaders, and how much should be driven by a provost or an institution center for academic technology? Are there any other people who should be involved? We know that the answer doesn't look the same everywhere, but it's clear that no matter how an institution is structured or what its future priorities might be, there needs to be collaboration across the technology and academic sides to best align these decisions with overall goals. That's why I'm so grateful that we have Dr. Patricia Kahn here with us today to share how her college's leadership and in-house experts work collaboratively on academic technology strategy and decision making. Dr. Kahn serves as the c I O and AV P for Information Technology services at the College of Staten Island and has over 30 years of service and higher education. Prior to coming to CSI, Dr. Kahn served as the Executive Director of Information Technology Services at Brookdale Community College and the director of training technology and integration at Montclair State University. Welcome, Patty.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Liz. It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1:So let's start off by talking about your institution. Can you tell us a little bit about the College of Staten Island?
Speaker 2:Yep, sure. So we have a little over 10,000 students. We are considered a comprehensive college in the CUNY system, which means that we offer a variety of degrees from associate degree to bachelor's, master's, PhD, EDD, and also a variety of certifications. We are mostly a commuter campus, but we do have some residents and we have a diverse population of students, and we are driven by providing services to our student according to the strategic plan, it strategic plan, as well as CUNY strategic plan, and obviously the college's strategic plan. And again, as I said, our main emphasis is providing service to our students.
Speaker 1:Great. Now, I think it's important that we discuss a little bit about the affiliation with CUNY and how it works.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, CUNY is a very large university. We serve. They serve more than 2,800 majors in programs across 25 colleges in New York City. We actually are the largest urban university, and we offer, as I said, a variety of undergraduate and graduate degrees and continuing education over 243,000 students are part of the CUNY system. So yeah, so CUNY is very large and we're very excited to be part of that system. And they often provide us policies and guidance on how we need to operate in regards to the daily operations and obviously, of course, in regards to pedagogy and teaching and learning.
Speaker 1:So I think you had mentioned to me as well, there's, you're still mostly remote.
Speaker 2:Actually, we're 70/30. What that means is over a two week period, we are on campus 70% of the time and we are remote 30% of the time. And again, that is the guidance that we received from CUNY.
Speaker 1:Okay, great. So that gives us a little level setting there in terms of decision making for, you know, how much is dictated by an individual institution in the system, and how much is dictated by from above. So let's talk about the pre COVID state of online and remote learning courses at CSI. I mean, did you, were you all involved in online learning at all? And if so, how much?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so prior to COVID, I would have to say that we, the majority of our classes were offered face-to-face in-person. However, we did have a cohort of online classes, but they were mostly, you know, ad hoc. There was no really formal process in place. But we were working on that. We worked very collaboratively with the faculty for center professional development, and we started to create an online presence where we had a peer mentor group from faculty. We had instructional designers and trainers. We had an online template. We created a website. So we were really doing our best in order to formalize our online learning environment. But still the majority of our classes prior to COVID were still face-to-face.
Speaker 1:And you mentioned that you were involved with these groups?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I worked very closely with the faculty center professional development, and I worked very closely with faculty as well and and administrative staff across the campus. So we were taking the lead, working together and creating this formal process, if you will. This way we can move forward iin a larger online presence. But obviously when Covid hit, that's when we really had to make the transition to fully online.
Speaker 1:So we know, speaking of that, that most institutions, at least in that first phase of COVID, had to take very ad hoc, some would say frenzied approach to rolling out tools and platforms to facilitate remote learning and teaching. How did CSI handle that, and what was your role in that process during that first time when it was so hectic and no one knew how long this was going to last?
Speaker 2:Yeah. During the time of chaos, if you will, right? Yes,
Speaker 1:<laugh>.
Speaker 2:So, basically, you know, we just flipped the switch to an online learning environment. And I guess because, you know, faculty were used to teaching face-to-face. They wanted to remain synchronous in that type of online environment. So our biggest ask from faculty was, how do I recreate that synchronous learning environment? And so that was us pivoting to providing the training and support basically for Zoom and Blackboard collaborate, becuause that's where you were able to provide that synchronous environment. I think the, the formal process that we started to create prior to Covid, I think that kind of like led us to be successful when we fully went online because we had, if you will, the foundation in place. It wasn't like we had to create these training sessions from scratch. They were already there. So it was just a matter of, you know, gathering the, gathering the team, and to be able to make these training sessions become more prevalent. I have to say, they were packed. It wasn't unheard of that we would have a Zoom class with faculty with over a hundred participants. Obviously when things started to get a little easier, then the amount of training participants decreased. In addition to offer training, we also had device distribution. So basically we offered students and faculty and staff wwho needed devices. We were able to provide Chromebooks iPads on occasion. We had hotspots for students who needed internet connectivity. And for some, some issues. Sometimes we also offered laptops. But again, we worked very collaboratively across the college working with administrative offices, academic offices in order to be able to provide the support that we needed. And sometimes it wasn't unheard of that we actually dropped the device off at someone's driveway because they weren't able to come to campus to get the device. Later on, we started to ship the devices to their home. So it was, as I said, it was, it was a very, challenging, exciting time, if you will. But we all came together and we were able to provide the support that we needed. Ultimately, I would have to say over 1400 devices were distributed. So we, we did a lot.
Speaker 1:It does sound like a lot and it's interesting to hear it's, it's such a reminder. We forget so quickly though, how, you know, a lot of these weren't the issues of necessarily the training, right? For, for the different tools and everything in, in some respects, it seems like that was easier than figuring out the logistics of device distribution.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I don't if it was easier, I would've to say that it was equally as challenging, right? Because you have to remember a lot of our faculty, they may not have used technology because we were primarily an in-person class institutions. So, for them to start having to learn how to use technology on the fly, you know, our best advice was, let's keep it simple. Let's get you over the hump, let's do what you have to do, and then we'll start learning the bells and whistles. But I think depending upon, you know, I think everything was equally a challenge because we really, you know, we really, it was in an unknown environment that we were dealing with. And obviously we also were dealing with safety concerns. You know, in the beginning, do we, do we distribute these devices at the college or do we ship them to the home? You know, like, and if we do it at the college, what are the regulations that we have to follow, wipe down the devices? So there w as so many things that were being taken into consideration.
Speaker 1:So, and, and again, there was a very steep learning curve there. And you mentioned even the evolution in the distribution of the devices from picking up to dropping off and, uother details like that, even, you know, sanitization of them, as you mentioned. Yeah. So as the devices were being distributed and training was happening to enable everyone to engage, can you explain how that use of remote online learning evolved? You had mentioned there hadn't been, you know, a lot of that done at CSI prior to then, and you had these very packed training courses. Like how long did it take for things to, I don't want to say settle, but become more manageable and Yeah. What did that look like too? Sorry.
Speaker 2:No, that's okay. It just seems like so far away, right? When you, when you reflect on what happened, you know, back in 2020. I would have to say though, the tipping point was probably, maybe a year, right? So, you know, obviously, you know, faculty and staff started to get used to the remote environment and our services as well. You know, what did we offer? It wasn't just about the training. I mean, how do we support the operations that we normally were handling face-to-face? How do we, how do we provide the services that faculty and staff and students were used to? Like, what do we need to do? And I think that led us to providing better services as COVID started to, you know, become less of an issue. You know, we started to continue to use those same types of opportunities that we learned during the pandemic. We took advantage of it, and we continued with that, if you will. So, you know, down the road, I would have to see a year maybe. And then, you know, we still remained remote, so it's not like we just stopped it. But we were able to leverage, you know, services remotely that we continue to do. So now, and we expanded on our training opportunities. So it wasn't just about Zoom now or Blackboard collaborate, you know, what are some of the other applications that we use that can support teaching and learning and operations? How do we leverage teams better? How do we lever leverage OneDrive better? How do we offer remote services if you can't come to campus? Do you use vdi? I can, we provide you with secure access through VPN. So all of these opportunities that we took advantage of during COVID, we continued, even though COVID has, you know, decreased.
Speaker 1:So there has been that, you know, as you say it, it's, it's never going back to, you just stopped doing any of these things, right? And there, there was this gradual tran transition that we've seen at a lot of institutions since we've settled into, you know, now I think we could safely call it perhaps a new normal, although we have no idea what the future brings. And when it comes to teaching and learning in particular, some institutions we know have gone back to the way they were before, and they have the vast majority of their courses face-to-face. At the same time, there have been others that have been able to build bridges and offer more flexibility and options for faculty and students. So, c s I certainly seems from what you've said, to be an example of the latter, as an institution that has seized opportunities to collaborate and grow in new ways, to I improve, improve services to students and in learning and teaching for faculty. Before we get into some of the ways that has happened at CSI, I think it's important to, for you to share with our listeners some context about how you as the CIO are involved with that academic technology and the academic side of your college in general in this new environment now.
Speaker 2:So,= in my role, my background is not only administration, but also I've worked a lot with academic technology. You know, I primarily when I was at Montclair State, I oversaw instructional designers and online learning in that environment. So that kind of like stayed with me. And also my, my doctorate instructional design and online learning. I would have to say that that's my passion. So, I worked very closely with academic technology. I work very closely with faculty and the center for academic Technology because of my background. So we learned a lot throughout during the pandemic, but as I said before, we try to continue with those new experiences and we wanted to transition over to face-to-face that we can continue with those services, even though we were primarily face-to-face again.
Speaker 1:And I know you have a PhD in instructional design, education, instructional design, and that is not something we see every day in the CIO role. So, in a way, it sounds like you wear two hats here, do you think having that expertise in instructional design helps you to collaborate across the academic and technology aisles?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do. Because sometimes, you know, it's not just about technology, but how do you use the technology? And I can have a conversation and say, well, have you thought about this? Or have you thought about that? And, you know, just to be able to have that back and forth, you know, conversation, I think really helps when it comes to implementing technology. And, you know, specifically when we rolled out the HyFlex Labs, you know, what, what are some of the things that we can do with limited resources and funds in order to provide a teaching and learning environment that works for both faculty and also for students as well. So to be able to wear that hat and say, Hey, you know, I, I understand where you're coming from. What if we do this? What if we do that? And again, it comes down to, you know, the training and, um, support that we provide. I emphasize that it's not about learning all the bells and whistles. Let's start small. Let's get our con, let's chunk our content. Let's do small recordings. Let's put let's see what we can do to make the environment as easy as possible for the student. Let's remove those barriers. And that's what we do. We remove those barriers and we work with faculty in order to make the teaching and learning environment as as flexible as possible. And that's the mindset that we continue. And any type of technology that we roll out, it's fully transparent. We have conversations across the college, will this work? Will this not work? What, you know, tell me what you think. And I think that that's kind of like how we operate and why it's successful. And maybe it's because of my background, I'm not sure, but I can say it's definitely, a collaborative environment that we tried to continue with that engagement as we move forward with new initiatives.
Speaker 1:That all makes a lot of sense. I mean, let's talk a little bit about the nuts and bolts of structure here. So as CIO, I know you sit on the cabinet with the provost as well that seems to allow for more collaboration. Do you think that that's important? And can you talk a little bit about the various teams and leaders involved and where they sit in all of this?
Speaker 2:Sure. So yeah, of course sitting on cabinet, it definitely allows me to, continue with that collaborative environment. Having a conversation with the provost, having a conversation with the Chief financial officer, having a conversation with the VP of Student Affairs. I mean, that is all part of, of, you know, what makes us successful. You know, I also talk about not only the good things, but the challenges that we're experiencing in my weekly reports. So to make everybody informed as to what's going on also helps in my, in my role as well. I also serve on many CUNY committees as well. And because of that, I'm able to share what I learn from CUNY across the college as well. So for example, I serve on the Center for Academic Technology. I serve on the Committee for Accessibility. I serve on the online taskforce. There's also a group that meets on a monthly basis called CIO/ITSteering. So anything that I learned from these committees, I share openly during Cabinet to keep everybody informed.
Speaker 1:All right, well, there seems to be one area where there's the greatest need, speaking of bringing people together. And that's when it comes to selecting technology vendors. And this involves making budget decisions, which is where we often see the tension arise the most when even when people are working collaboratively, you know, who pays for what, who makes those decisions, how much budget do they have? It can really be a cause of friction, as I'm sure you and everyone else listening to this is, is more than well aware of. So especially in our resource constrained environment, which basically every institution is in right now, there can be power struggles and disagreements over priorities. Can you share with us how you work with the academic side on making these investments decisions at CSI?
Speaker 2:So, you're right. Working in a, in a limited budgeted environment is tough. And, we have to sometimes think outside the box and we have to learn to do more with less. So, if I have to say, you know, let's take a look at HyFlex for example. What can we do to implement, enhance smart classrooms across the campus with a limited budget? Were we able to provide, souped up technology in every single classroom? No, we certainly didn't have the funds for that but were we able to leverage the stimulus funding as best as we could in order to provide enhanced technology in these labs? So this way we can provide a service to the students. That's basically what we did. And we were basically living with the unknown, because with Covid, we weren't really sure when we were coming back. So how do we get the most bang for our buck, if you will, limit using funds that were available to us and able to serve the community at large. And again, going back to myself wearing two hats, what is it that a faculty and a student would require in these classrooms? This way they have a, a good learning experience. So, again, having the o opportunity to leverage a variety of funding resources, that's basically what we do. So obviously stimulus funds were a huge component to get us over the hump. But you know, we have access to our operating budget. We have student technology fee which we leverage as well. And how do I use those funds? Again, it's an open collaborative process, specifically with the student technology fee. We receive requests from the academic divisions across the college. We review those requests, we meet with the provost, we look to see what's feasible, what's not feasible. And it all comes down to being tied back to our strategic plan, whether or not, you know, what is, what is our long-term goal and, and what can we can, what can we accomplish? So, that's basically what we do. And you know, sometimes we al also use capital funding depending upon the project. And, also being a CUNY partner is very helpful as well. They have the ability to get better pricing because of all of our, all of the colleges that are comprised of cuny. So we're able to leverage that as well when it comes to working with our vendor partners in order to get the best price.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting, you mentioned thinking out of the box, and I'm catching on one thing you said there, in terms of using capital funding instead of operational funding. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Because I think that's something, just to give you a bit more context, we're seeing happen a lot more.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there's lots of capital projects that happen across the college, and sometimes those capital CRO projects require a technology component. So let's, let's add in that extra line for that technology component that you may not have thought of, and therefore we can now include that in the capital budget as opposed to me having to put it in the operating budget. So that's kind of like what I mean. And capital projects could run from f mostly facilities, if you will, of the upgrades that they do security. So, you know, there's lots of opportunities where it can leverage capital projects in order to expand, you know, what our technology needs are.
Speaker 1:And it also, I think that this whole time that we've been through has really made people see when we're talking about facilities, you know, we've got to redefine what that means.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, for sure. Definitely.
Speaker 1:So, lot of lessons learned, lot of evolution at your institution, collaboration being so key there. One of the biggest areas of growth that you've mentioned to me at CSI is going to this HyFlex learning model, emphasizing that more and adding these smart classrooms. Can you tell us more about those and you know, why the institution decided to go in that direction?
Speaker 2:Well, again, I think it was not having a clear concept of what the future was bringing us. I mean, we were dealing with the unknown. Are we coming back to campus? And when we do come back to campus, how many classes are going to be face-to-face? How many are going to be online? And then when we do come back, are there going to be students that may not be able to come back because they may have COVID or something else that's going on in their lives? So how do we promote flexibility and still allow for a learning environment to continue? So that was kind of like the mindset that we had. And, so we took a look at our infrastructure and we took a look at our classroom environment and we said, well, where can we get the most bang for our buck? And that's when we decided to expand on our smart classrooms and implement HyFlex technology in there. So we were able to support a HyFlex learning environment where we were able to put webcams, document cams, enhanced microphones, things of that nature so a student could attend remotely if they had to while the class was continuing face-to-face. And what we found was even as we started to return back to campus, faculty are still using that technology, so it's not a big deal. If they want to integrate with their lesson with Zoom, record it and put it into their LMS. This way, students can watch it at a later date. So we were providing this flexibility, you know, without even realizing that that was going to happen even though we were back face-to-face, you know, for the most of our classes now. So that was a nice result from having this enhanced technology. We also have five classes, which are really state-of-the-art technology for HyFlex, where you have, you know, the PTZ cameras that follow the faculty when they walk around the room where you have the interactive whiteboard where you have a control panel. So we do have those classes as well. But again, because of our limited resources, we obviously could not implement that type of technology across the entire college. And also we were hesitant because we really couldn't be sure, you know, would it be used. Is it going to be a smart use of our funding to be able to put all of that high-end technology across a large amount of labs? It may not have been worth it. So we really wanted to see, you know, first let's, let's see what we can do with the limited resources that we have, but still provide the flexibility, which was important to us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's such a hard call to make, right? Because you've been in this very unpredictable situation, there's not an unlimited amount of funds going around, you know, that you've got to be prepared for everything or anything rather, but you can't just invest in every possible technology out there that might be able to deal with every possible situation. And you don't want to be then in a situation where afterwards, well why did you, why did, why did you put all this money in that when you don't even really need it? And it's interesting too to hear like, one of the things, I guess just backing up a bit, can you provide, because everyone seems to have a bit of a different definition of this, when you say HyFlex, how, how does that work or is defined at CSI?
Speaker 2:So to us, HyFlex means that you have a student that is participating remotely while students are on campus simultaneously in the face-to-face environment. So you may have a student, for example, who has COVID and can't come to, can't come to campus for two weeks, let's just say, but the class is still going to continue so that student can participate remotely as if they were physically in the classroom and see and hear exactly what is going on without physically being here. That to us is what HyFlex is.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting, you mentioned it first with all the training and other things that were being done in that, you know, first part of the pandemic, another issue was everyone wanted to or faculty rather wanted to teach synchronously. Is this seems like there's been an evolution of that as well in terms of asynchronous that HyFlex allows for?
Speaker 2:Yes. So I would have to say that faculty are still very leaned more towards synchronous learning, which is understandable because we are a face-to-face, primarily college. However, you are correct, I think that the ability to provide asynchronous learning s an opportunity which I think is starting to be leveraged more and more. So, for example, because of all the lessons are integrated with Zoom and you can easily record a lesson with closed captioning and transcription, and to be able to upload it into a learning management system to be viewed later on, it's not a big deal anymore. So, all you're basically, everything is integrated with Zoom, so all you have to do is just hit record. So, we're finding that that opportunity is, is going to be used more and more. And we're also finding that larger classes are going to be implemented more and more. And because of that, we're going to have to, really show faculty again how to use technology correctly. And again, I go back to my other hat. It's not just about hitting the record button and speak for, you know, 50 minutes and expect the lecture to be 50 minutes long to be something that a student is going to view. How can we, you know, implement a teaching and learning environment that is more constructive to what students can really learn from, you know, let's chunk these lessons, let's talk about how we can leverage the technology to help you in that regard. So I do believe that more asynchronous learning is going to become more prevalent, I think, in the future. Yeah,
Speaker 1:That makes a lot of sense, because you do need that flexibility. You mentioned a lot of the synchronous things happening. So for instance, if a student has COVID and cannot attend classes while they can still log in, in attendant, excuse me. One of the other issues though seems to be accessibility. Can you talk about how these technologies, whether it's the smart classroom or the HyFlex, help students with accessibility issues and how that has changed?
Speaker 2:Well for two ways, when don't you say accessibility? You know, we did have one student who broke their leg and they could not come to campus. So they were able to attend remotely. One actually attended remotely from the hospital room. So, it was actually, yeah, so it was actually a very pleasant experience for the student and for the instructor. And when you talk about accessibility, yes, we have students who have accessibility, requirements and normally it, that would mean that a person would have to physically come to campus, listen to the lesson, and physically transcribe it. Now that doesn't have to happen. That individual can stay remote, log into Zoom, and the student can physically be in the classroom while the transcriber is remote. So the cost associated with that has gone down significantly. So the Center for Accessibility is really excited about using this HyFlex environment and has been very successful in doing so.
Speaker 1:It's such a great illustrative example to me of how there's something that maybe there wouldn't have been the impetus or the, the mass movement towards if COVID hadn't happened, but when everyone had to do that, it actually ends up being a great example of how you can save money through these investments and through getting everyone on board.
Speaker 2:You know, not only that, but the fear factor of using technology, I think has not never, it'll never be eliminated, but it certainly decreased significantly because they had to use technology. And I think, you know, as I said, the approach that we provide, you know, let's keep it simple first and then we'll expand, I think was really continues. And I don't think that the fear factor of technology is as much as it used to be in the past. And, you know, I think the initiatives that we continue to move forward on, I think is going to, is going to demonstrate that for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great. And one of the other areas, speaking of moving forward and doing things differently is with online course offerings. So how has that changed at CSI?
Speaker 2:Well, as you know, we're part of the CUNY system and CUNY has embarked on a very huge initiative which they call CUNY online. In fact, they just launched their brand new website. So students can actually go there and they can search across the entire CUNY system as to see what online programs, certificates, degrees, are available to them. And it's a very cool way that they could filter to whatever criteria they want and see what colleges are offering the specific need that they require. So right now, you know, all the colleges are involved in this initiative, CSI as well. We're focusing mainly on certifications right now and autism, business analytics and TESOL. but future online initiatives, I believe is going to be moving towards health management.
Speaker 1:Great. Let's also talk about some specific technology tools. What are some other areas, aside from the HyFlex and the smart classrooms that have had the biggest growth and change in terms of widespread adoption? Because as we all know, the technology tools that are used by students, faculty, staff are not just the ones that are used in the classroom. There are a lot that have to do with the workplace, how we communicate when we're not all in the same place at the same time. Like maybe a lot had been prior to that. Can you share some examples of those?
Speaker 2:Sure. Well, one of the biggest ones obviously is Microsoft 365. I mean, you and I are currently in a Teams call right now. Great. Because, we just recently migrated our on-prem email to Microsoft 365. So now I think that what teams is going to become more popular and more widely used, not just for, email, if you will, but I think, you know, to promote the collaboration, whether or not they want to use, file sharing or they want to do note taking or they want to do polling. I think that as they get more comfortable in teams, that might become maybe equally as prevalent as Zoom because it has a little bit more, offering, if you will, in order to provide it. You know, a truly simplistic teaching and learning environment that runs across all, you know, the entire gamut. In addition to teams, I want to talk a little bit about our virtual reality environment. We have a VR lab now that we're back on campus. ICVR becoming more popular as well, specifically students who are getting ready to embark on their careers, how can they use VR to enhance their soft skills, their interview skills. We're able to promote that in our VR lab, and that's becoming very popular. Our virtual desktop initiative, d uring COVID, all of our public labs were converted to a virtual environment. So this way students can l og i n remotely to those labs and have access to those applications as if they were v isibly on campus. Well, now that we're back, those labs have returned to their normal state. So what we did was we migrated that VDI, virtual desktop initiative. We migrated over to the server-based. So we continue those services and that continues to be popular as well. And in addition to that, we have staff also VPNing into their desktop, because as I said, we're not 100% back. We have that 70/30 working environment. So the times at their home, if they need to access files from their computer at their workstation, they can do so, through a secure VPN connection. So, you know, we're leveraging those those technologies that we, that we implemented during COVID. They're not going away, we're just using them in a different way now.
Speaker 1:And another sleeper hit. I know you've mentioned it before, but I think it's important to revisit this, which is Zoom. Yeah, it seems so obvious now, but can you talk about where you were all at on Zoom during the beginning? I think you had mentioned to me it wasn't a tool that you had expected would become so central to remote teaching and learning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's funny, and even though the, even though we're back, zoom is part of our life, I mean, it's not unheard of that when you schedule a meeting, you have the option of attending face-to-face or remote. You know, that's basically, you know, that's all the time. And from a student perspective, as I said that with these large classrooms, we're going to, they're going to need to use Zoom because they're going to want to record those sessions. This way a student can revisit them at a later date in an asynchronous learning environment. Let's take that lecture and let's record it. Let's pop it up into the discussion board and let's, let's continue the learning, even though we're not, we're not meeting in a face-to-face during this, you know, so it, it has opportunities. And because it's so easy to use, it's gone. Hopefully it will continue, but if it doesn't continue, that's okay because we have teams, we have other options which weren't available to us before. So, that, again, it's not about the technology, it's about how you are using the technology. And Zoom and teams could be replaced with something else, but that type of learning environment is only going to expand, I believe.
Speaker 1:Yes. Well, speaking of expanding too, there's also areas where we saw a lot of tools when they were used in this, this mass setting, became less popular. Are there any for your institution that you phased out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, unfortunately we did. We had to phase out our lecture capturing tool. Although believe me, it was a wonderful tool, lots of great possibilities and integrated easily with our learning management system. But I think because of the complexity of its use, comparatively speaking to Zoom, which also had similar functionality, faculty were migrating more towards Zoom than to use this lecture capture system. Perhaps when we have more of an online presence through this CUNY initiative, we'll be able to bring it back. Or maybe this is something that CUNY might institute, you know, university-wide. So yeah, unfortunately again, we're always looking at numbers and we're looking at usage and to see whether or not it's warrants the actual continuing of a product. And unfortunately having this electric capture system just wasn't being used as hope as we intended it to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes it's, you've got to go with the numbers instead of maybe the quality of the tool. Beause as you says, it's more about usage than the actual features Yeah. Of the tool for sure. It seems like there's so much great collaboration going on at your institution, and I know you give a lot of credit to your, your peers and others in the community there, but we can't deny that. Part of that has to do with your background in instructional design. That's definitely unique and something that's sought out in a CIO role that we don't see in a lot of places. With that in mind, and having worn both of these hats, do you have any advice to close out our conversation for your peers on both the academic side and in the CIO roles or on the IT teams on how to best collaborate with each other?
Speaker 2:One of the things that I do a lot is ask questions and that regard, and that is not just from outside of it, but within it as well. And you cannot communicate enough over-communicating is a good thing. Don't assume that individuals, the college community understands what is going on g o u nder the impression that they, they don't. And the best way to do is just to continue to collaborate as much as possible. Don't do anything in an isolated fashion, continue to get feedback. One of the big successes that we had was o ur M365 migration. And I think that's because we collaborated so much across the campus, but we also collaborated internally with my team. We continue to ask so many questions and, and just p iloted the heck out of it until we w ere comfortable with the actual migration. And I think it's important that being open and transparent and honest, you know, I'm not one to sugarcoat, so if something is not going to go right, you're going to know that it's not going to go right. But I'm going to explain to you why. And hopefully I'm going to have an explanation, but also a solution to what the challenge is and how we're going to address it. That's also key. So, you know, yes, there is a timeline, but make sure that the timeline is realistic. Don't always be in a rush, just like to get things out and check that box. We were not one of the first institutions to go live with M365. We, there were a lot of there were a lot of kinks that had to be addressed. And even with HyFlex, like I explained before, don't feel that it's necessary to put every single classroom with state-of-the-art technology. Be realistic in your approach because you don't want to do something that's not going to be used. And I think that, you know, that's always like a biggest mistake where it's like lots of bells and whistles. It's wonderful to use, let's get that out there, but then in the long run it just doesn't get used. But how do you prevent that happening by communicating, being transparent, being honest, and working together as a team. I think that is critical.
Speaker 1:That's all very sound advice, Patty. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to share your insights with us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I was, it was great talking to you, Liz.
Speaker 1:Well that concludes this month's Top of Mind Podcast. Don't forget to check out our other podcast, videos, and blogs in our resource center at thetambellinigroup.com.