BIZ/DEV
David Baxter has over fifteen years of experience in designing, building, and advising startups and businesses, drawing crucial insights from interactions with leaders across the greater Raleigh area. His deep passion, knowledge, and uncompromising honesty have been instrumental in launching numerous companies. In the podcast BIZ/DEV, David, along with Gary Voigt, an award-winning Creative Director, explore current tech trends and their influence on startups, entrepreneurship, software development, and culture, integrating perspectives gained from local business leaders to enrich their discussions.
BIZ/DEV
Finding Fulfillment on Your Own Terms w/ Alice Lutz | Ep. 88
In this episode David has a heartfelt conversation with former CEO of Triangle Family Services, Alice Lutz. From training puppies, to pouring your heart into a non profit endeavor they discuss the work life balance and what choosing fulfillment really looks like in corporate America.
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David Baxter has been designing, building, and advising startups and businesses for over ten years. His passion, knowledge, and brutal honesty have helped dozens of companies get their start.
In Biz/Dev, David and award-winning Creative Director Gary Voigt talk about current events and how they affect the world of startups, entrepreneurship, software development, and culture.
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Hey everyone, welcome to the biz dev podcast, a podcast about developing your business. I'm David Baxter, your host, and for the very first time, I have no Gary voice. And so I have no one holding me back, and it's gonna be great. More importantly, I have Alice Lutz with me. And she is joining me as the former CEO of triangle Family Services. And she is currently on sabbatical. And we're going to talk about both of those things in just a little bit. But before I dive into that first welcome, hi, outside. Thank
Alice:you. Thank you. Glad to be here. Thanks, David.
David:I wanted to talk about sabbaticals because I think that's very interesting. You're on one which have hope that's going well. But this is something that vacation and taking time off and all of that sabbaticals is something we don't talk a lot about American culture is work, work, work work. And I think it's some people are leaning into more life balance kind of stuff, more, more of a sabbatical to pursue personal, you know, goals. And I think that's awesome. My business group, I, I've said this a few times, but I'm a member of a group called C 12. And they encourage executives to take a week of vacation per quarter, which I struggled to do. i My wife has been very adamant that I need to try harder. So last year, I did it for the very first time. And this year, I'm working on it. It's always there's always a part of me. And I'd be curious, your thoughts here. There's a part of me that says, if that feels guilty for taking time off, because I'm leaving, and my team is not. It used to be that I was afraid that I would leave and the company would fall apart, right being a small business. But now it's kind of a guilt thing. Like they're not taking a week per quarter. They just don't we have unlimited PTO. But people take a couple of weeks a year generally. So I there's a guilt thing there. But I'm just curious, what are your thoughts on vacation? You ran triangle Family Services for 14 years? So you clearly had some thoughts on this, I'm sure with your executive team and whatnot. So what are your thoughts on vacation in general?
Alice:What are your student questions sabbatical on vacation? So the sabbatical piece of it, I want to address first, I think that that's really important to think about, like how I personally got here was the readiness of the agency, when you look at the turnaround that happen with the agency paying off the building the executive leadership in place, the you know, all of the goals, kind of no long term depth, the agency board had just redone. Thereby bylaws, a new board in place committed to two to four years, I mean, there were just a lot of factors. So when I did the kind of Ben Franklin thing and laid it out, there was not never been, there had never been a better time for the agency to go and do a search for the new CEO. The second piece of that was that the CEO was going to be given, as I say, like this nice wrap package of Oh, my gosh, move forward, it was just a readiness of the agency, especially coming out of COVID. I think that the other piece about it is that when you look at a sabbatical, the preparedness of what you need to do to enter that period in your life happens a long, long time. For me, it was three years, actually a little bit longer than that, and then COVID. And so then, after COVID, I looked again at Ben Franklin and said, okay, everything is in place now. So I really was looking to make a change years ago, and or take a break, and maybe some extended vacations. So then I want to speak to the vacation piece of your question is it's not about the guilt or the agency fault art. And, you know, candidly, I think that the next generation of workers coming in do have a lot more of a lens by which they view work life balance, they're not afraid to take that week, once a month, sometimes, you know, and so it's really looking at how can you regenerate and recharge on a regular basis. To me, that's the essence of what we as leaders need to be looking at. And so what does that mean? Does it mean you have to wait until once a quarter to take a week? Probably not. It means that you need to take these bite sized pieces on a regular basis to make sure that you are balanced.
David:Nice. There's so many questions there that that came to mind when you're speaking. I want to back up for a second you keep mentioning this Benjamin Franklin thing. I know who he is not that out of touch. But what do you mean by that? What is that?
Alice:So when you look at and what and this is what he used to do when he was looking at some of his analysis. He would do the pros and the cons on either side. And so that then that's when you would make some of your definitive decisions based on your Ben Franklin. Like where is your where's the weight? Have what you have. And so my pros far outweigh the cons of not moving forward with my Spanish.
David:So is that a business philosophies or a book on that? How did you come to be? Or do you just really enjoy Ben Franklin, and that that's just you're gonna go to?
Alice:It's been, it's a business philosophy, and I'm sure that there's books written about it. And I'm sure I must have read it someplace, because I've picked it up from somebody. So yeah, I just have always kind of looked at the analysis and really analyzing, so I didn't wake up one day and have that burnout feeling, I didn't want to wake up that day and think, Oh, my God, I've got to get out of here, I'm going to go crazy. I really worked into what I was going to be doing retirement, I'm going to use that in quotations and or sabbatical and or rake. And so for me, you know, to about a year ago, almost two years ago, I got a puppy, after my German Shepherd dog died. And in that I wanted to do therapy, visits, service therapy dogs. So I got my dog with the whole purpose of doing business of therapy, service therapy for people in business, as well as students as well as elderly, hospitals. And so I had to do, you know, eight, nine months of training for that dog. And so that was my outlet when you look at that balance piece. And that was my goal that I was leading towards. And so my dog got, you know, certified it a year old. And so I graduated, I graduated, I retired January 1, and January 2, I started agility work with her, which is another kind of discipline to do with dog training. And I do service therapy visits. So my outlet is that whole piece of giving back my passion for the work that we have doing, my whole life didn't go away. I've just pivoted to a new place. Now what's ironic about all of that, that kind of dawned on me, because I'm doing a lot of training now. And, and I went from being the leader making decisions to being the subservient being told what to do. It's a very humbling experience from a leadership perspective, and one that I'm enjoying, so I'm not having to make any decisions other than you know how to discipline my dog today. But yeah, it really is a planful way to approach the phases and journeys that we're going through in our life as leaders.
David:Man, yeah, I've said many times, I think I'm on hireable at this point, because I have been doing this now 10 years. And the idea of just being another cog in a machine kind of gives me hives. And I'm also now nomadic, like I just like, there are days I wake up and go, I don't have any means that I'm gonna go to a coffee shop. Like that's something I have done just now for 10 years. And so I imagined being the low man on the totem pole, I could see it as freeing in one way. But I could see it also very frustrated. I'm probably at some point, I could totally see what you're doing. So it's funny, you're talking about a new puppy. So we just got a new dog, we just signed that we only get shelter dogs. That's our rule at our house. And so we just signed the paperwork, we use a company called Paws for life. And we just had the paperwork, and you're talking about your dog being like certified, and agility training. We're just trying to not to get our dog to not like eat the furniture. You're in a very different space than we are. The funny thing is so our dog came to us from the shelter. She he was at a foster home. And his name was Baxter, which is unfortunate. That's my last name. And so we're like either that's a sign that this is our dog, but it was driving me nuts. I couldn't call him that because I just couldn't do it. My son is called Baxter at his school. So every time we bike No, Baxter don't do that. He was like, what would I do? It's all sorts of strange stuff. His name is now tux. Of course, he has no idea. That's true. And so we are in the throes of figuring out what to do. He's a year old. And just he's a pug adore. Which of course, he's a mutt. So who knows. But in theory, he has a pug Labrador, which is just the weirdest mix. He's like, got a big pothead and little bitty ears and he's, he's a hot mess. But it's kind of funny. That's awesome. So how did you get involved in like, was dog training dog service? Is that something you've always loved and just finally had the opportunity to do or is that a new hobby? Where did that come from? For you?
Alice:It's been a hobby. I've always done rescues as well. This is my first job that I've gotten that it wasn't a rescue. And so my mom was in the hospital about six years ago now and she was extremely sick and there was a therapy dog that would come in and visit and every time they came in, I saw the light in her eyes go on and I saw this love and this this moment of love Warm normality. You know, she was sick and dying. And you know, the world was crashing and around us, but yet you had this moment. And so I thought, Gosh, that would be so cool. And so I just started telling people, that's what I'm going to do. And then it became like, Oh, crap, that's what I'm gonna do. And so then I started doing research, and I started calling trainers. Again, I had never, I've always just had dogs, right, never trained them or whatever, I don't know what I'm doing. And there's a lot to training dogs just like training up leaders, just like training of employees, I'm sorry to make this comparison for some people that are dog lovers. But I'm telling you, there are so many similarities between what you do with training a dog and what you do with training staff and training kids, I would argue all three of those, because you have to really look at it from both sides and trying to analyze you can't think you can't understand what dogs are thinking sometimes. Right? Well, sometimes we superimposed what we think people are thinking, Well, you don't know what they're thinking. And so if you make it consistent, you make it persistent, you make it you know, predictable. thing, go, you've got it. And so um, a couple trainers, I very quickly, you know, put off because lots of different reasons. And so I found a trainer and so I started with she was eight weeks old. And so I've just kind of continued it. And I don't know, when I do these therapy visits, I truly don't know who is benefiting more the dog, the person or people I'm with or me. I leave so full.
David:That is so that is so cool. So my story on therapy dogs, my daughter years ago, she's 15. Now I think she was seven, she broke her leg very badly. And was in it was a compound fracture, she was in the hospital. And she gives me grief about this to this day. So she was in the hospital for two or three days. And every time the therapy dog would come over, it would come to me and I would love on it. And she'd be like, I'm the sick one here. Why are you taking the dog and I'm like, I can't help it if the dog loves me more. That's right. That's right. So she gets still to this day. So eight years later, she's still mad at me about the therapy dog. But he was so cute. And so but it's the same thing. I mean, she would line up because hospitals, I've been in the hospital before and there's nothing so lonely as sitting in a hospital bed by yourself. I mean, you know, family can come and visit for a couple hours here and there. But most of the time you're on your own. And the doctor of course is takes an act of God to come visit. So you don't see them, then the nurses are busy. And so any interruption in that monotony is wonderful. And then of course a dog itself is if you're a dog person, I would imagine if you're not a dog person, it's not quite the same. But it is such a wonderful thing because there's the all they are is love. They just want to be loved and to give you love, and it's a very, very easy thing. And so I've always loved that service that people offer. It always makes me chuckle there are people who make their own service dogs, right? Because not because they want to help people but because they just want to take their dog everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Like those give a bad name because it used to be you saw a dog with a vest on. Like, that was a big deal. That dog you knew was well behaved and was so amazing. And you would be like, Oh, that's so cool. And now you're like, is that real? Right? Are you just just doing that? But that's very cool. Very cool. So what's your Go ahead?
Alice:Well, I wanted to go back to your question about sabbatical again, just for a second. Because I think the thing that's really interesting that almost stops people in their tracks, because I was, you know, had such a high profile job. And I did so much of agency for so long. It's like what do you do in your in your retirement every time now? Like, I'm bringing love to people? What, what, and it really is like that moment where it's like, oh, my gosh, that's what you do. And yeah, that's what
David:I love to be able to have that. I mean, it's so rare that people are given or earned. I don't I shouldn't have given have earned the ability to do that. Right. You can you've been successful, you've been able to take the time and to do something that's purely altruistic. Right? And like, in my family, they work until they can't. Right and that you know, and I've because of the way my family has been, I've always been very cognizant of that as I don't want to end up that way. Right. I want to I want to be able to retire in an age at which I can still do stuff like that. Yeah. To help others or to just relax but still be active. You know, my father Other just he worked until he was too sick to work. And he's, you know, and he was because of that. And I think it was also a mind shift. I could go on this soapbox for days, but he was expecting you would ask him, Hey, are you what's your retirement plan, say, I'm gonna work till I die. That was his thing my whole life. And he would, but the problem is he got sick. And he couldn't work. And because that was ripped out, that wasn't in his plan that wasn't in his mindset. It really affected him from a mental perspective, because that was his purpose. That was the only thing that he got up in the morning to do, he sold houses. He's very, very good at it. And he would get up every day, put on a suit and go sell houses, right? That's what he did. And he lost that suddenly, no plan, no, nothing. And it just, it just crushed him. And it still is to this day. And so that's it's it's having that mindset of the job is not everything, which is for a small business owner, that's saying a lot, right? And it's one thing if you are working for someone else, and you love your job or not, right, a lot of people don't love their jobs. You can say, well, I'm going to quit someday, and I'm going to retire, it's gonna be great. And I'm going to play golf or whatever, up dogs, or pickleball. Like that, that yeah, pick up. You know, I did pick that up. My wife told me we we've been looking because our kids are getting older. And I can change subject on a dime. I apologize, Gary's not here. This is what happens. So my wife wanted to try pickleball. So she goes and tries it with a friend. I was not there, I was out of town actually decided that she hated it. So I never get to play pickleball ever.
Alice:So I picked that up in my retirement too. So I do that a couple of days a week.
David:So I still want to try it someday. I want to try it.
Alice:Anyway, sorry. We got off subject. No, it's
David:fine to it. It's all good. My podcast, right? So the man now lost my train of thought. So we've talked about retiring and having a mindset that your job is not your entire purpose. Man, that's big. That's a big shift. Especially if you've owned the business, you started the business, it's your baby. Like we've got, I've got some friends who their father, it's a family business their father is was the CEO for 2030 years, grandfather founded it. And the father is retired, however, he will not let his son run the business. He's not in the business, he doesn't come to work, his son is running it for practical, but he owns none of it. And the dead collects his big old fat salary, for no reason whatsoever, right? He's just, I, this is my company, I'm not letting it go. And so the company is suffering because of it. Because they have to pay this huge thing out with no return on it, right. And that's, that's also not what I want to do, right? I don't want to either I sell it or I give it to my son or child or daughter, whatever. But let go, right. And so it's just, there's all these things that as a business owner, I built this, this is mine, it's all mine, especially if you're first generation, this is all mine, this is what I'm here to do, I would challenge you that it's not, and find something greater in your golden years as whatever you want to call them. So that your if you have to stop working even unexpectedly, it's not so life altering in terms of you know, mentally crushing,
Alice:I'd love to reflect on that. Because I think that that's a really pivotal point on how I got to where I am right now. And being at peace with it all is because, you know, prior to try and find me services, I had my own consulting business, and I was doing organizational capacity building work for nonprofits around the state. And so I was being very successful, very happy over there came over to run the agency with the intent of turning it around. I did not anticipate being there longer than five years. And I was very vocal about that. I mean, they hired me, I'm like, I'm going to turn this baby around the ship was going down like a Titanic, we're going to fix this thing. And I'm going to move on. Well, then I fell in love with the population that I was serving. And I'm falling in love with the population I was serving, I stayed there for 14 years or whatever. And so in doing that, though, I always knew I would go on to something else. And so that whole transition of my passion didn't stop. And I still have that passion. And I'm still working with that population. And so I'm just doing it in a very different way. And it's freeing in some ways, I don't have 60 people I have to babysit a daily basis. I think the last piece of that I'd love to reflect on for just a second is when you're the person that comes in and is the turnaround person. So you know you're riding the ship, you're you know, really restructuring and eliminating a third of the staff consolidating three locations to one location, you know, and then you end up at the end of that 13 years or whatever having the building paid off no long term that then suddenly everyone thinks, oh my gosh, she's They're forever. Well, candidly, I did my word, you know that and then some you know, and so it's like that is the time to hand over the reins to somebody who can take it to a another level when the agency grew from about 1.61 point 8 million to six and a half million. And that's a big growth in a short period of time. At a time when COVID happened at a time when they were monitored disruptors, you think about mental health, you think about domestic violence, you think about child abuse, all of those things. This agency was like this almost mini case study for businesses to look at, like how do you take this, you know, grenade that's thrown at you and say, Okay, let's hold that off. Let's fix this over here. And so it's a little bit like, you know, that little Dutch girl with the, you know, finger in the dike, trying to figure out how to stop this main brain, this main, you know, water from breaking. But then when it's done, entrepreneurs in general, have that competitive spirit and a desire to make things better, right? When things get kind of all on an even keel. It's like, we're bored out here. Let me go do something different, you know. And so there's another project in me out there. I don't know what it is. And I'm certainly not looking at peace. And I'm happy with everything I'm doing in my life right now. I mean, I read seven books this last five weeks. And it has been Yeah, I love to read. And so
David:personal books like fiction, or was it like business growth books, both, or both.
Alice:So I did, braving wilderness with Brene Brown, I did the two West Moors, which is about this true story of these two black eyes I grew up in Baltimore, one was a Rhodes Scholar and one went to prison. I read we're not like them, which is a novel that looks at a shooting of a black boy by a police officer, white police officer talk about timely right now. So I read, you carry Soto's back, which is like this mindless novel that you can get through I mean, it was good. But so I just kind of just started. I've always loved to read, I rejoined my book club, I started a book club, like 26 years ago. And over the last 10 years, I put my life on hold, like many people who, again, are in the midst of turnarounds. And so then I went back to my book club, and it's just fun to nurture that side of me again.
David:That's very cool. So I do want to step back. So I know we've talked about the triangle Family Services. But we haven't explained what they are you were you ran it, but just a 30,000 foot view, what did they do? What what do they do?
Alice:So trying to Family Services, and 85 year old human service agency that helps families in crisis as essentially, we wrap our arms and our services around people. 85 years ago, when nonprofits were started, the norm not started when trying and found the services and started the norm was to have families in crisis go to a central point. And then that agency would be able to wrap services around the family instead of families around services. pendulum has swung way now people have to go here, there and everywhere in order to get services, and they really are in crisis. And if you've ever been in crisis, you don't even know where to turn. And so with the pendulum swinging back, I think that triangle Family Services position to be in reasonable growth period. And so the way that they provide those services is through mental health, domestic violence work or domestic offenders, the matters of domestic violence, supervised visitation, housing program, street outreach, and a couple other programs that supervised visitation. So just a whole host of programs, three service areas, 14 programs under one roof for $6 million.
David:Wow. So my ignorance has said to me, how do you get like the let me rephrase it. The path to CEO of a nonprofit is different than the path of a CEO of a for profit. And I don't know why I think that but I'm like, how do you you know, I guess the in my head, and I'm guessing I'm not alone, which is why I'm mentioning this. In my mind. nonprofits don't have any money. And therefore how do they bring in good talent? Right, that's in my head. Right. And I'm sure a lot of people think that because it's weird, like charities are such an interesting beast in that every single one of them you before you give money, you're encouraged to go and see how they're rated. And one of the big things that they're rated on is how much of the money you give goes to the service they provide versus the administration and And the higher that number is meaning like 90% of the money you give goes to the thing that they do, and only 10% or 8%, or whatever. And that gold standard is how small is that number for the administration? Okay, so that's in my head. So now I'm thinking, Okay, I want to get 10% of the money to run the place. So that must mean there's their nickel and dime imminent, and they don't have any money to pay top dollar people. So again, this is probably all falsehood, but this is how I imagined it. So how do you like someone who's talented and skilled and driven? Why would you ever want to be the CEO of a nonprofit? As opposed except for calling? Which that's an easy thing? And maybe that's always the answer. But but you're, you're an amazing human being who's very talented. You've got your pick of both. The money is, am I wrong? Is my assumption wrong, that there is no money? CEOs gotta get paid? Well, me Red Cross dudes got to be getting paid pretty decently right. But is everything I said? Correct? Or is that a fallacy?
Alice:Well, there's a lot in that that you said. And I think that there's not I think that perception of what you said is very real, I think there's a couple of things. One is that nonprofits doesn't mean non money is that there has to be money to operate. And so one of the things that I believe, and one of the things that really allowed me to step away from my business and run Toronto Family Services, is that there's this model that we need to look at that brings the entrepreneurial spirit, the corporate type of approach, the nonprofit sector, the philanthropic sector together and meshes into making it a sustainable organization. And so one of the pieces of trauma family services that I've, you know, candidly I'm very proud of is that I grew, the client generated the portion of what we did, so that it wasn't related on David giving 100%. And we're independent agency, about a third of 35% of that agency was through client generated fees. The second piece about it is by consolidating into one location and bringing all services underneath one roof, we will use the space seven days a week, from seven in the morning until nine at night. And so there were all these different agencies and programs operating on regular basis, some of which were billable. So then that last piece of it is that attracting and retaining talent, I think that that is probably going to be the single most challenge that we continue to have in the nonprofit sector with the current economic climate, which is positive for most people, but the unemployment rate is really low. And so that means that we have to figure out how to compete, right, and how to retain that talent. So I want to go back to that client generated fee. Well, then if I started justing, my, my clients scene, I call them butts and seats, so I therapists can see 30 people a week in private practice, we lowered to 20 a week, well, I've reduced my income. So that means either I need to raise rates, okay, people that come to us at 6% or Adebola, poverty, probably not something or I need to figure out how to subsidize, how do we fold some of the organizations, corporations, municipalities, government funders, kind of accountable to saying, you know, okay, we want you to had to help subsidize this. This kind of comes into the are we measuring outputs? Are we measuring outcomes. And I think that that's a real critical piece. And, and I think that when we look at some of the analysis that needs to happen, for nonprofit organization, I was extremely data driven. So when I went in to talk to the county manager, I brought my numbers with me, because that's what's going to resonate with them. What's not going to resonate with them is some of the heartstrings that might, you know, compel David to give money, but it's not going to propel David Ellis or county manager to say, Sure, I'll increase your your funding by XML. And so those are the things that I think that we as leaders need to look at how we're bringing leadership in to make these decisions. Unfortunately, what people tend to drive towards nonprofit organizations, and what drives people to nonprofit organizations is passion. And so I want to help people well, so what we all want to help people, you know, and so this bleeding heart syndrome of saying, you know, I just want to go to work every day and feel good. Well, no, you're not going to go to work every day and feel good about what you do. Because sometimes you're going to have to exit people out of programs, some people are going to have suicide, some people I mean, these are real things that happen on a daily basis, you know, and so you're not going to feel good every day. But what you are going to be able to do at the end of the day and the week and the month and the year and the quarter, whatever is to look at how can you take this and be able to visit Vision, the organization for long term sustainability so that that next generation can be seen. And that's what made me interested and intrigued and helping to turn the agency around. And then what kept me there was seeing that mother who finally got help for the daughter, who was sexually abused by the dad, you know, and all of those things that actually keeps it going. But it is going to be a challenge. The last piece I'll say, is that the retaining talent is going to get incredibly more difficult, because when you look at human services, and their credentialing that I believe needs to happen in order for you to hire the people in Human Services, is that there needs to be a funnel by which people are filling in the funnel is not full. The funnel used to be like this, the funnels like this. And so because of that, you don't have enough people coming into that industry. So how do we partner with organizations companies to make it palatable. And also, I hate to use the word sexy, that's not the word I want to people to leave with, but to how to make it enticing for people to want to stay in the sector,
David:that it's so interesting to hear the leadership side of nonprofit, most of our guests have been, of course, for profit. And so it's, it's a same concepts, but the lens is slightly different. And it's really, it's really fascinating. So on that note, I want to I want to end our conversation, we always ask the same question, but I want to put it in that lens. So let's say to most of the people who listen to our podcasts, or people who are thinking of starting a business, they've started a business, they're struggling, they're succeeding, whatever, right there. But they're usually pretty early on. And at least that's our goal. But I want to phrase your question through the nonprofit lens. If I am an aspiring entrepreneur, I have that mindset. But I really want to do good in the world. And I want to do it through a nonprofit that I want to start. What would be your top three pieces of advice for that person? Specifically?
Alice:Define what it is that you're most passionate about? Is it animals? Is it people? Is it kids is an adult? Is it dementia? Is it cancer? Or is there something that happened in your life, really narrow it down to what that is? Do your research, you know, I believe that what we as partners need to be looking at are the people that are providing the work that you're passionate about credentialed to do that work, if they're not credentialed to do that work, if they're not had training, had they not had some sort of, you know, outcomes, some sort of deliverables that proves that proves that what they're doing is not doing any more harm to the population being served. However, you find your passionate population, right? Walk away from them. Because I think so often people are like these do gooders who start these nonprofits or get into the business, and they're actually doing more harm, candidly,
David:because they don't know what they're doing. I mean, what is it that they're causing? They think if I ignorance that they're saying, If I do this, that's going to help, and they're just ignorant, the fact that no, because if you did this, these other ping pong balls is moved, and the population got hurt, is that what you're saying?
Alice:And all of that, and that they might have superimposed their experience, like, say that I was involved in domestic violence situation years ago, then I might say, I know what needs to happen with you. i This is what needs to happen. Well, actually, there's a lot of research that looks at ways that you can approach missing islands, it's not one size fits all. And so sometimes people who have that experience, whether it's being homeless, or hungry, or whatever, they superimpose their own kind of values and their own outcomes to what you need. And so where some of the evidence base or captains and some of that training happens, is around work that is evidence based. And there's a high probability not to say that I'm become prescriptive for you, David, but it's to say that these are the things that probability based on my knowledge, is going to help you the most.
David:Okay, make sense? So what would be your next piece of advice?
Alice:So then the third thing I would say is that you really need to start with having a conversation with a leader within that sector that you've defined. Number one is you define what that passion is. Number two, you've figured out like, okay, it's a reputable organization, they are doing the work that they say they're going to do, and the outcomes are really strong, and they're trained to be able to do that. Three is I'd start at the top and to have conversation. So oftentimes, the port of entry is at the volunteer level where you go out to a run or a walk or something like that, and you're not really getting into the nuts and bolts. So maybe starting on a committee, start on the Finance Committee and events committee, start on a you know, get in there and really get to know the leadership to see If this is something that you can align yourself with, there are some organizations that might be culturally conservative to what your personal views are, well, that's not really going to serve your soul to serve time with that organization. And to give your time, talent and treasure, you need to make sure that they're aligned with what you personally believe, then, you know, so I think that that would be the third thing. I think the thing that I would love to share for everybody is to stop and write your personal mission statement. Your personal mission statement, mine I wrote over 20 years ago, actually, it's probably been 30 years ago now is do something or someone else, every day, especially yourself.
David:I've heard the concept of a personal mission statement many times. I don't have one. I don't know why I don't have one there have no good reason.
Alice:That's your homework. David.
David:Do I get homework now? All right, man, what happened? My podcast, I get sideways, I get homework. Wait a minute. But it's
Alice:really a powerful way to say are you living into your personal mission? Think of how long it takes you to write your company, mission statements business, I mean, oh my god, there's retreats after retreats and writing. I mean, if I had sit in another room to write a mission statement, I'd probably go crazy out of that room. But um, but yeah, if you write that down, then back to your question to me about what piece of advice I give to somebody is, if you have that personal mission statement, then that makes your search of how to get engaged, pretty darn easy.
David:But it would have to be pretty specific, right? I mean, if if your thing is just, you want to help people, okay, that's cool, bazillion ways to help people. Right? So I mean, that's where that now we got to narrow down which was your first piece of advice.
Alice:That was my first piece of advice is to say, okay, find out, go into your soul, talk to your family, talk to your friends. Actually, here. It could be another homework assignment for you, David, is kind of liking this job is to say to people who know you most What do you think I care the most? What do you think that is my greatest interest out there? That
David:would be scary, right? I mean, you're really putting yourself out there, like what is important to me? In your eyes, right? Get everybody talks about what they're what's important to them. But for someone else to say what it looks like from the outside, someone told me if you ever want to see what someone truly cares about, look at their bank account. It's true. It's in you, you put that lens on yourself, man, that's powerful. Because you say one thing, but your bank account says you go out to eat all the time. You know, that's, that's a very sobering thing. And I think that's great advice is what is what do you think I care about the most man, that's powerful stuff? Well, I know that we need to wind this down because you have important things you need to get done. And, and I have taken enough of your valuable time, but it has been absolutely lovely speaking to you.
Alice:Yeah. Good Pleasure.
David:So if people wanted to reach out to you, Alice and ask questions get to know you a little bit better. How
Unknown:would they do that? By LinkedIn, LinkedIn, okay, which we will have
David:in our show notes for anyone listening. But this has been really wonderful. If you do want to get in touch with us. You can reach out to us on any of our social media platforms. We're everywhere, unfortunately, even including Tik Tok. We are on YouTube, you can click all the links below. And you can email us at Hello at the big pixel dotnet. So we're going to wrap this one up. Thank you so very much for joining us and everyone else. We will see you next time.
Alice:It's pleasure. Thanks, David.
