Have you ever felt the cathartic power of penning down your deepest fears and triumphs? Cheryl Bannerman certainly has, and she joins us to reveal how the art of writing became her sanctuary amidst the chaos of betrayal and abuse. In an intimate conversation, we traverse Cheryl's poignant journey, where journaling morphed from a simple act of expression to a transformative tool for healing. Her story is a vivid illustration of the strength found in vulnerability and the silent, yet profound, power of the written word in piecing back a shattered self-worth.
As we share experiences and delve into the complexities of emotional recovery, Cheryl's insights shed light on the resilience of the human spirit when faced with societal judgment and personal turmoil. Writing serves as a compass through the storm, helping to navigate the murky waters of triggers and intrusive thoughts that often plague our minds after a difficult relationship. Listeners will walk away with a renewed sense of hope and an understanding of how storytelling—through journaling or otherwise—can be an anchor of gratitude and a bridge to connect with others who share similar paths of pain and perseverance. Join Cheryl and me as we uncover the liberating journey of healing through writing and the gratitude that comes with emerging on the other side.
If you're ready to heal your trauma, and find a community of like minded women, come join us for the one day event "Divine Daughter" in Utah on August 3, 2024. Get your tickets here: MyDivineJoy.com
Have you ever felt the cathartic power of penning down your deepest fears and triumphs? Cheryl Bannerman certainly has, and she joins us to reveal how the art of writing became her sanctuary amidst the chaos of betrayal and abuse. In an intimate conversation, we traverse Cheryl's poignant journey, where journaling morphed from a simple act of expression to a transformative tool for healing. Her story is a vivid illustration of the strength found in vulnerability and the silent, yet profound, power of the written word in piecing back a shattered self-worth.
As we share experiences and delve into the complexities of emotional recovery, Cheryl's insights shed light on the resilience of the human spirit when faced with societal judgment and personal turmoil. Writing serves as a compass through the storm, helping to navigate the murky waters of triggers and intrusive thoughts that often plague our minds after a difficult relationship. Listeners will walk away with a renewed sense of hope and an understanding of how storytelling—through journaling or otherwise—can be an anchor of gratitude and a bridge to connect with others who share similar paths of pain and perseverance. Join Cheryl and me as we uncover the liberating journey of healing through writing and the gratitude that comes with emerging on the other side.
If you're ready to heal your trauma, and find a community of like minded women, come join us for the one day event "Divine Daughter" in Utah on August 3, 2024. Get your tickets here: MyDivineJoy.com
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Other Side of the Struggle Guys. I'm really excited about this episode. Today I have with me Cheryl Bannerman, and Cheryl Bannerman is a prolific and versatile author with a portfolio of 10 published works across various genres, including mystery novels, a children's book. She's like. I totally love this because she does a lot of things that I want to do here. I'm just going to be honest. In 2018, she received the prestigious 2018 Book Excellence Award for her poetry collection Words Never Spoken. And in 2020, bannerman's book Black Child to Black Woman Woman an African American woman coming of age, story Garner to claim winning the best books award in African American fiction and the reader's favorite international book award contest in urban fiction 2021.
Speaker 1:
And readers can really connect with Cheryl Bannerman's work. You can purchase signed copies of her books, subscribe to her newsletter through her website, battermanbookscom, and when she's not writing for her next book, she is running her 28-year-old virtual B2B training and development company based out of her Orlando, florida home. So I'm really excited, you guys, because Cheryl has quite a history, she's got quite a story, she's been sharing a little bit of it with me and she can definitely connect with you, wonderful people, my beautiful, beautiful audience, because she understands betrayal. She understands, you know, the mild medium and the jalapeno which we talk about quite a bit on this podcast, and she definitely understands one of the things that we talk about a lot is how healing writing can be when you are going through just some really difficult relationships, and so I'm really excited to have her on the podcast with me today. So welcome, cheryl.
Speaker 2:
Hi, thank you for having me Appreciate it.
Speaker 1:
You're welcome. I'm really excited for this, truly I am, because you know you're, you talk you've been talking about, like um, you know breaking the silence, you know, and, and you know breaking the silence, you know, and, and you know when speaking isn't safe. Because in your situation and without getting into a ton of detail, you know that was something that you definitely weren't allowed to do, right. And so when you started writing your books and you started writing and journaling and and and getting this out, that getting it out is a way for you to break the silence, correct yes, once I finally got out.
Speaker 2:
that's when I wrote my first uh journal words never spoken. So, uh, it was definitely healing and I would healing, and I would say up to that point, journaling was a big part of getting those feelings and thoughts down on paper to kind of validate what I was feeling, what I was feeling. And so I would encourage everyone you know to take advantage of journaling. It's you could do it anywhere, you know. Of course you have to keep it safe, but you can do it anywhere at any time.
Speaker 1:
Right, Right, Absolutely. And you know, I will say like this is like that was definitely one of my most powerful tools, like just journaling, Like for me it was letters to God. Right, I would write down my letters to God and it was awesome.
Speaker 1:
Like nonjudgmental, I may or may not have asked for a few lightning bolts to strike a few people before you know. You know ringing my hands and maybe a little bit of guilt, but it's, it is what it is and you know the thing is is you can just literally write down whatever comes to your mind, pour it out to God and the the thing I loved about it is the journal kind of became like a source of love and wisdom for me because after I was done writing it all out, I finally had this ability to hear and receive answers, receive wisdom, and I would write them down as a response back from God, right?
Speaker 2:
I love that.
Speaker 1:
That was my journaling process. I'd love to hear about yours. Like you know, you talk about your writing process a little bit and you know how does that help, how did it help you and how did it, how does it help your clients?
Speaker 2:
My writing process whether I'm journaling or writing poetry is very similar. So a lot of people they like music, they like to be in a formal setting kind of lean more towards hand writing with a pen and paper and curling up in bed or on the couch. I just find it's a little more for me. I can definitely relax more and it doesn't feel as formal as typing and then I kind of focus on exactly what is hurting. When I was in that situation, what did I feel the most pain from? You know it's easy to write poetry when you're going through something.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
If you're not going through something, then you have to think about what gets you up in the morning. What are you passionate about? You know it could be a cause that you're very dear to. You know it's very near and dear to your heart, that you advocate for and you can write about that. But in an abusive relationship or situation you want to focus on the pain. My pain for me mostly came from emotions, verbiage that was negative about me, that my mind was believing me that my mind was believing Um and so I was programmed to believe that, um, I was worthless.
Speaker 2:
Nobody would want me because of my medical conditions. Uh, you know I've, I was fat ugly, whatever you name it and you're so gorgeous too.
Speaker 2:
Like definitely not something I would have it's true, it's so funny, but once you're reprogrammed, especially after a decade, it's pretty much etched in your brain as true. So that's what I pulled and I wrote about how that hurt me and how I wanted to believe better about myself. It was. It was definitely a lot of reprogramming that had to happen after I got especially. You know, doing one-on-one counseling is very important, but it's it's a reprogramming that you have to do.
Speaker 1:
It absolutely is. And you know, and you mentioned, you know it was different because you could type it out or something, but just taking the thoughts from your head and getting a pen and paper and writing it out was so different and you know the reason. Like so, I went to school to be an elementary teacher, Right, and here I am, I'm doing a podcast about healing from betrayal trauma. Right, I get it, I totally get it. But the thing is is one of the things I've learned when I was teaching was was the importance between you know, the brain hand connection. Yes, Right, and I see this nowadays with with children who are trying to do all their homework and everything like that on on a computer. See this nowadays with with children who are trying to do all their homework and everything like that on on a computer and they're just like it doesn't make sense, I don't get it right, and it's because they're, they're not getting that brain to hand connection anymore.
Speaker 1:
And the thing is, is um the brain actually to, in order to be able to organize, actually needs the, the ability to write it down, and this is part of the reason why it's so healing is because and it's so fast too, yeah, it's because you're actually, as you heal, you're creating or as you write, I should say, you're creating space for those, for your synapses, to reconnect, you're creating space for the reorganization of thoughts. You're creating so much more space, and that's one of the things you absolutely need, you know, when you're dealing with um, you know those, those intrusive thoughts that you believe are true, is it? It's, it's like chaos up there, and the opposite of chaos is organization exactly that's right, and I you know it's also about being heard.
Speaker 2:
you know, if you're putting it on paper right, then that validates it. That means that, um, these are real. You know, a lot of times you know the saying why did you stay so long? I don't understand. Yeah, that whole thing. I must have heard it a million times, I'm sure After, even now, to this day. Like you know, when I talk about it, people are like why just days are long?
Speaker 2:
I'm like you just don't understand get it it is, I mean no, and so putting it on paper, you know, allows you, like you said, to organize your thoughts and and really validate what you're feeling and what you're going through.
Speaker 1:
and I also want to say I think it also helps you finally start to realize truth. You know, because you know you were talking about like those, those thoughts that you bought into you know that I'm not pretty enough, I'm not fat like or I'm not. I am fat, I'm not pretty enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not enough, I'm not enough, I'm not enough, I'm not enough, I'm not enough. All of these things. And you know, I, I think every woman you know today, has to deal with that kind of stuff because we're told we have to look a certain way, we have to be a certain way. It's like all totally surface value stuff it is right.
Speaker 2:
That's why I don't spend. I really am calculated about how I spend my time on social media. You know, I make sure that my feed is full of positive affirmations and religious quotes and nothing you know I don't want to see. You know, if somebody I follow posts something that I find you know triggering or negative, you know I just unfollow so it doesn't show up. For me.
Speaker 1:
So you know, and I have to do the same thing. I absolutely do and I will be honest, like I totally understand. You know when, when, when, saying like, people are asking you like, why didn't you leave? Well, duh Right.
Speaker 2:
Right how.
Speaker 1:
You know how hard it is, yes, how, but, like there's still aspects I don't understand, because I've never been through domestic violence, right, yeah, that being said, it's just that I do understand, like you know, those those intrusive thoughts, you know, and, and like how, how the writing flips those intrusive thoughts into actually understanding. That's a lie, you know, and I talk about, like, even affirmations are really hard for a lot of people because you've got that voice in the back of your head, right, you know that's constantly like this isn't true, right, and it's a little bugger, and so affirmations oftentimes don't work for people because they haven't dealt with that, oftentimes don't work for people because they haven't dealt with that. However, I feel like you know, when you get down and you actually write things out, there's a couple of things that happen when you start to acknowledge actual truth because, like, honestly, are those like still thoughts that and this is kind of a personal question but are those still thoughts that you feel like you deal with?
Speaker 2:
And this is kind of a personal question but are those still thoughts that you feel like you deal with? I think only if I'm triggered. You know that that type of thought comes back in my head. But no, it's. You know I've. I've reprogrammed myself. I have my confidence back. I'm the old Cheryl that I was before I went into that relationship. But yeah, sometimes it does rear its ugly head. Just to give an example, I was with a girlfriend. I had just met her honestly, through a women's group, and we went to lunch and she was talking about her beliefs and how she doesn't eat. I think it was just everything. It was just, you know, no meat. No, you know, she was 100% vegan and she also did not do dairy. And so I was like, well, I'm glad, this is a great spot for you. They have a whole vegan menu. And so afterwards I was walking. I was going to walk next door. She had to go, but I was going to walk.
Speaker 2:
Next door there was an ice cream parlor and I wanted to yes, and I wanted to get my dessert and I, you know, texted her that they had a whole like vegan section that was also made with a coconut base, that was not dairy and it was homemade, and so, yeah, and it was homemade, and so yeah, and it was so good by the way, yeah, you're making it like I got a pint to go home, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:
So she responds, and, by the way, I got digs about this throughout the entire meal, so it was not helpful. So she responds well, thank you anyway. But I personally do not do dairy because of my beliefs, and it doesn't really matter what it's made with, and the reason why I don't have health problems and weight problems is because of my beliefs and how I treat my body, and so that was the whole meal. By the way, it was just all about shaming me for what I was eating my, you know, my fish tacos and, um, yeah, yeah, so that, so my horrible choices is why um, you're not going out to dinner with her again?
Speaker 2:
oh my goodness, no, oh, please no. The next day she texted me, had a really great time, we should do that again, and I never even responded. I think the young kids call that ghosting yeah, yeah, like no sometimes in life you will get a situation where all of a sudden you have a flashback right and it's like, oh my gosh, maybe I am ugly and fat. You know it's crazy, it's so crazy. But yeah, everybody has very strong beliefs, oh, that's okay, that really okay.
Speaker 1:
That makes me mad, oh, okay again. So like whoa, like seriously, just whoa. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm glad you're not going to dinner anymore with that person, like what the heck. But so you know, I this is kind of brings in in a good topic because, like you know, this is this is where we get out that journal again. You know what I mean Like to reset ourselves, because after I mean, that brought up a lot of triggers. You personally have been through a lot as a child, you know, into marriage and all these different places. So what did you do after that? Like, how did you reset yourself?
Speaker 2:
So when I am triggered by any type of situation similar to that, I have to go back to what I call positive self-talk for me, and so I look in the mirror and I start with my affirmations, like talking to myself. So hey, look at you. You know looking great in that shirt today, feeling good. You know, look how you're walking. You're not walking, your knee's not even hurting today. You're walking so good and I try to encourage myself that way. So that's what I do for myself, and usually it just gets me right out of it After about this time. It took about four days to to reverse what she did to me.
Speaker 1:
Wow, and how, like you know, four days is you know to to to someone could be like a long time, but like to other people, that's like really really fast. Right, it totally is. And so my, my next question is is like did you, did you do any of the writing processes for that? Because I know like kind of like what we were talking about, like you get that voice in the back of your head, right, like did that?
Speaker 2:
show. I started writing a short story about it. You changed the name. She's going to be a character in one of my books. Yeah, just part of the character list of people who are overly critical and just insensitive and no empathy, right, no social skills. You know it's okay when you're a kid, you know they blurt out anything they want. You know. But as an adult that's not acceptable.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, you've got to definitely watch, like what you say, because you know you're supposed to have a little bit more more, you know awareness yeah you know, at least, at least we would hope, wow, just just wow.
Speaker 1:
Okay, well, there we go. But you know, I love, I love the fact that you know you are putting her in a book. I've been told I, so I've been doing some writing and I've been told that, you know, when you use somebody in your books and things like that and they behave like that, right, they've kind of waved their right of. I behave like that, right, they've kind of waved their right of not being a character.
Speaker 2:
You become a character. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:
That's a good way to explain that. That's a really good way to explain that. Ok, all right. So you know a lot of my listeners they are women, you know, whose husbands have cheated on them. You know, maybe they're going through pornography addiction. You know, maybe they're going through, you know just definitely some relationship dynamics happening. You know just definitely some relationship dynamics happening.
Speaker 1:
And you know there's also all that self-belief that's being brought up. Like you said, the reason why it's triggering often is because of something we personally have experienced or gone through and it comes to some type of a meaning for us, right, and that's not to downplay. Like what anybody goes through, like anybody that's going to go through your situation is going to say holy, you know, bleepity, bleep, bleep, like this is hard, right, we don't swear on this podcast, anyway, you know, and the same thing, like for anyone, any woman that's going that her husband is is looking at pornography or cheating on her or doing those things, that's hard, that's hard crap, you know that's hard, that's hard crap, you know. So what can they do? You know, like what kind of a journaling process or what would you suggest to have them write out?
Speaker 2:
Well, everyone's going to write whatever they're going through. First of all and I just want to address the first part of what you said and how it's affecting me now so there was pornography addiction, there was alcohol addiction, some drugs, or sending images of himself to someone through a text message, or just plain a woman calling the house and finding out, you know, he had, you know, done something with her, oh man, so it was just constant, and this was during our dating, engagement and marriage. Wow, oh man, then I'll jump back again. So the writing for me, through the journals that I have created for my readers, allows you to analyze things, whether it's your childhood versus something as an adult, and why you do the different things that you do. But that's what I've put down in my books to help readers today.
Speaker 2:
For me, my father cheated on my mom a lot and I had experienced it a couple of times when I came into full contact with the woman and I flipped out yeah, so I guess it, you know, held something for me. You know that was very close. You know that I experienced as a child and a preteen, and so for me I had to, through counseling and a lot of different written activities that she helped me through, I was able to understand why that was triggering because I hadn't even made the connection, you know, with my childhood and this with my dad and this and why that was so upsetting, how it made me feel and how I can combat those feelings Right that you have to let go so that you don't apply it to your next relationship. Yeah, yeah, that's that whole healing process. You got to go through it all. You got to make the connection, understand the feelings you know, write out the feelings Right. It's a long process because you don't want to take that stuff to your next relationship.
Speaker 1:
Well, you don't want to take that through life in general.
Speaker 2:
Right, right, let's just not do that relationship. Well, you don't want to take that through through life in general.
Speaker 1:
Right, right, like, let's just not do that and the thing is, yes, you know, I love what you're saying is because when you started writing it down, you know and like getting that validation and starting to understand, like, like your thought patterns and things like that right, yes, you also start to sit in the emotion and one of the things that I tell people consistently is, if you're going to heal from this, you can't run from the emotion. You can't, you can't like just consistently hold it forever either. So you know, this is one of the reasons why I love the idea of journaling and writing things down is number one it starts to give you a story to tell.
Speaker 2:
Right.
Speaker 1:
And how many times do we actually have stories that need to be told? Yeah, and you know, I, for me, personally, you know, just telling my story. That's, that's the reason why I'm doing what I'm doing today, right, cause my story has been so prolific. Same with you, right? If we actually got in and told our stories, whoa, what a shift this entire world would have right.
Speaker 2:
You don't know what your story, your story could meant. You know is meant to be told for a reason.
Speaker 1:
There are people that are listening, that are like oh my goodness, I thought I was the only one. Yes, yeah, and you know, that's the craziest thing, like I hear this all the time from women is is like I thought I was alone. Yeah, I thought I was alone, I thought I was the only one. I did too.
Speaker 2:
I thought I was right when I started with the book promotion and talking to readers that there are other people that have been through very similar situations yeah, yeah, and you know, and I I'll tell you, I chatted with a cat with a gallon.
Speaker 1:
I can't share her entire story because it's number one she hasn't given me permission to but number two, like, it's just freaking horrific, you know, let's just say it had a lot to do with satanic ritual abuse, wow, right, and it was like, oh my gosh, so gosh, so, so, so bad. And the thing is is like, even though, like, we're going through absolute hell, you know, there's also the, the people who are going through so much worse than what we have even experienced. You know, right, and that's not to downplay our stories either, but just a simple fact, like, even though my story wasn't anywhere near as bad as hers, right, right, nor even close, it's just, my story was still so impactful for her because, you know, she basically said that it taught her how to turn back to God.
Speaker 2:
Right, because, yeah, and that just leads, that really leads me into my second part of the journal, which is a grateful journal. Yeah, what are the things that I'm grateful for?
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
I, I, um, I recently, uh, last week, I had a friend pass from cancer Sorry, she's a very dear friend and, um, I think about the pain that she was in and she was going through it alone. She had no family support. And I say to myself you know you're complaining about diabetes and your fibromyalgia pain, you know it. You know know. Look at what she's going through Chemo every single day, you know so it really makes you just stop and thank God. You know what I'm grateful for waking up this morning. Thank you, I'm grateful.
Speaker 2:
That's why I always bring in the fact that I can walk without my cane. Today, you know, like anything to do with my health. I try to bring that in because some people are in a wheelchair and can't walk Right. So I have to remember to be grateful, because one thing you don't want to do is get a complaining heart. See, I don't. You don't want to complain. Oh, woe is me. You know why did I go through this? Why me? Right, we have to focus on the positive and improvement well, you know, okay, I um there's a.
Speaker 1:
Do you watch the show? Have you watched the chosen, by any chance? Yes, it's so good, it's so good and. Christ asked a very, very powerful question to one of his apostles and it was do you have the faith to not be healed?
Speaker 2:
Hmm, I remember that.
Speaker 1:
Right, Like I was, like my jaw dropped.
Speaker 2:
I'm like what. Yes.
Speaker 1:
Like whoa. That stuck with me and the thing is is like his story was so like. That apostle story was so powerful.
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Speaker 1:
And that's why, right here he is, he's crippled and he's still proclaiming with joy and gratitude and love. Like these are, like the cornerstones. These are the keys to finding joy, to finding yourself, to understanding who you are, to understanding who you are. And you know, and I'm not saying, like you know, do you have the faith to stay in that kind of a marriage or that relationship? I'm not saying that at all. No, you like no, no, no, let's not even go there, but it's. It's just that I do think sometimes do we have the faith not only to be healed, but to also be grateful for the thing that we're going through?
Speaker 1:
you know to, to just to give a little context, to, like, um, without without sharing a ton, my family's going through one of the worst trials of our lives right now right, it's, it's, it's hell in every shape and form, um, but I actually just did a post on this the other day about, like, how grateful I am for this trial, even though, like, even though what had happened, like I, I that never should have happened, it never should have been done, um, but it's given me the ability to get closer to my kids. It's given me the ability to really connect with them, to to be open, to teach them about healing, to teach them deeper about god. We've had some really spiritual experiences, you know, all of these things that wouldn't have happened had we not needed to turn Right, and we talk about, like you know, turning the other cheek Right. Well, when you do that, like just turning your cheek, it completely changes your focus. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:
And one of the things that I say is you know what? It was a horrible situation. First of all. What did I learn from it? Right, I learned a lot. I learned that I am't setting boundaries well.
Speaker 1:
You probably couldn't set boundaries with this person either.
Speaker 2:
to be honest, no, from the very beginning.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
It's not like we don't see the red flags, we just ignore them. We see the red flags. Let's just be honest with ourselves. We see the red flags. Let's just be honest with ourselves. And so setting boundaries in relationships, whether it's family, friends, you know, just like I cut that woman off, you know.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
You know, you just do what you have to do to protect your mental health. Yeah. And then the other thing I wanted to say about turning the other cheek and people to this day they don't understand. But I don't. I never hated my ex-husband. Yeah, to this day I still want him to be happy and healthy and I pray for him with his addictions and I love him. So we love each other in Christ, we don't hate. I have no hard feelings when I walked in, when I walked into it, but when you see the first red flag, that's when you're supposed to set boundaries. You don't settle. You don't say, oh, no one else is going to come along or make any other excuse. You set your boundaries. If someone is doing something unacceptable, then you cut it. Yeah. And then all of this wouldn't have, you know, happened. But I learned a lot and I took what God wanted me to learn and I turned it into a positive.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely. And what a beautiful thing. And it's like I've said so many times, you know, had I not gone through and still going through a lot of things, you know, yes, I would not have realized how deeply I needed God in my life, you know, and how deeply I needed him. This is going to be ongoing.
Speaker 2:
Oh yeah. I mean right in the Bible it says you know it will be trouble, you know in this world, and so we're not, we're not going to not see trouble. No, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:
And you know the.
Speaker 2:
Thing is, is like I, oh yeah, no we're.
Speaker 1:
We're definitely going to see stuff, and the thing is, this is what I say to people too, like saying that trauma is a one and done is is unrealistic. That doesn't happen. You're going like I'm a trauma coach. I still get traumas, you know, but once we start learning, like tools like the journaling- yes. You know meditation, meditation, you know EFT we talk a lot about tapping here.
Speaker 2:
Yes, you know um, meditation, meditation.
Speaker 1:
You know, eft, we talk a lot about tapping here. You know all of these different tools and different modalities and and mindset through, through it all makes such a difference when you literally are going through hell and even though it's hard and even though it really really sucks and I think sometimes people just suck I can tell you it is these tools that, when I refer back to them, it keeps you out of an emotional withdrawal you know, it totally does, and that makes all the difference when you're dealing with trauma.
Speaker 2:
That's right yeah, we live in a world where everyone speaks their own you know mind, with no filter, and we're judged on everything. We're judged on our hair, our, our eyes, our clothes, everything. You know, and you have to really protect yourself. If social media is triggering to you, do something about it. Limit your followers, you know, limit what pops up in your feed or, you know, delete your account if you feel like it's not beneficial.
Speaker 1:
Right, right, absolutely, and get out a pen and a piece of paper and start to write.
Speaker 2:
That's right exactly. I always say when you're writing um, if you're not uncomfortable, then you're not digging deep enough.
Speaker 1:
Right, right, right, totally true, totally true. And the thing is, is the writing will give you a place to still be safe? Yes, exactly that's what it does. Cheryl, thank you so much for being with us today. What a great conversation and a wonderful tool to be helping people use. Where can people find you?
Speaker 2:
Oh goodness, I'm all over the place. The website is BannermanBookscom, and then under Amazon, you can just look up Cheryl and then Instagram. My handle is Bannerman books 18. And then Twitter. You can find me at C Bannerman. Oh one.
Speaker 1:
Go check her out, you guys, because she definitely has got some great tools for you If you're dealing with any type of trauma, any type of abuse, any type of betrayal. And lastly, like I said, if you guys would like a little one-on-one help, you know, reach out to me and let's get a call scheduled and get you going for sure with some great tools to help you get into these spaces of healing as well. Cheryl, thanks so much for being here and hopefully we can have you back soon.
Speaker 2:
What a great podcast show. I love it. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:
You're welcome. Okay, guys, from my heart to your heart, I'll see you on the other side. Bye.
