The Word of God

Hector and Tyler discuss The Word of God and what the Bible is to us in 2023 from the perspective of grace revealed to us in Jesus and His finished work. 

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Transcript

So, yeah, man, how's things going for you? Good, good, good. Things are going good. I'm out and about right now, you know, just just running around doing some errands early this morning. Are you driving? No, I'm driving. I'm driving. I know how you California boys are. You don't live in California anymore, but I know that you're like, yeah, I mean, you're born and bred right? California, right? Right. That's right. Like the walk everywhere. Save the Earth. Yeah, man, you know, it's like, yeah. How have you been? Good, good. You know, I mean. Busy, you know, you know, how small kids are, you got them to. It's it feels like every day is like a second, you know, it's just like it is gone and you wake up this morning and then that one's over before, you know. Yeah, yeah, but it's good. It's good. It's busy. It's really busy. You're right. Me too, man. Like, yeah, I'm friends and everything. He just got married. Yeah. That's good. Good for him. Yeah, man. Yeah. She's good for him, too. I think I think he found a really good, good person. Oh, OK. Good. Yeah. Yeah. But Houston. Was he? I can't even remember. I was there. I literally I was physically in this city and I get it mixed up between Dallas and Houston. Pretty sure he's in Dallas. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's where he's at. Yeah. Speaking of which, OK, so just really quick, I was looking on LinkedIn and if my boss is listening to this, I'm not like looking, looking. I was just like on LinkedIn, you know, saying and I was on LinkedIn and I saw a CMM programmer position for Tesla. And that's what I do. That's what I've done it for a couple of years now. You know, I was like, man, I check it out. Let me let me apply. But like the pay range is like only 50 bucks an hour. It like tops out at like four an hour or something like that. And I was like, OK, it's in it's not Fresno, Fremont, Fremont, California, man. And it's only 50 something an hour. That's yeah, I mean, you can't know that. That's a very, very expensive area. Yeah. Now you're in the Bay Area there. Oh, man, that's super expensive up there. So what did I do? I went and looked at homes. That was. Oh, yeah. One point three million was like the lowest I could find. That's good living in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's wild out there. So I passed on that one. I was like, I'm not going to apply to that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We get paid a lot more out here for some reason. I don't know why, but I will. Yeah. Do this. That's cool. I mean, now you're a real estate guy now, right? Yeah. That's that's what I do. My man. Yeah. Huh. Competitive. It is. But but I feel like I'm in a good position and I found a good, good office, good broker and, you know, just staying busy, you know, too busy sometimes, you know, so it's good. It's good. It's going. It's going good. It's kind of like a like a like a shock to me because I felt like I just got thrown into it and just just learning a lot of things. You know, it's just a completely, totally, completely business for me. So but it's fun. I like it. I love it. Yeah. So. So would you say that real estate, like being a realtor, is more people or houses? Oh, people, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. You're just dealing with a lot of people, all kinds of people, all types of people. Yeah. You're a salesperson. So. Yeah. But it's fun. It's fun. You know, I like it. I enjoy it. Would you say the houses kind of sell themselves a little bit or? Yeah. Yeah. Of course. You know, I mean, people know what they're looking for, you know, so you only show them what they're looking for, you know, and you don't really have to sell a house. You just have to sell yourself. You got to sell, you know, yourself to the person. I mean, a house sells itself, you know, I mean, it's. You know, supply and demand, too. I mean, we don't have a big supply right now, so people take what, you know, what there is out there. And, you know, if you have an idea of what you're looking for, you know, just that's what you that's what you show them. That's what you give them. And. And, yeah, some of those you don't have to sell home, you know, especially nowadays, you know, with all the technology, all the market are the marketing, you know, that there is out there, all the all the research, all the options for research. You know, yeah, I believe that a realtor's job is more of a people people job instead of a selling homes job, just because because of that, if it was just selling a home, you don't need a realtor, but you do need somebody, you know, that's going to guide you through the process and is going to be there, going to look out for you, have your back, you know, and that's that's serving you and has the best interest for you in mind, you know, you do need that. Absolutely. So that's crazy. So would you like I don't know, we can stop talking about real estate. Would you say that most people have already like basically been through the house that they're that they're asking for you to like show them? Would you say that they've already kind of been there on Zillow or like Realtor.com or whatever, and they like they kind of know the house already? Or do you have to definitely like we just get the call, hey, can we see this house, you know? Yeah. Yeah. They've been they've been through it already. They just want to verify, you know, and then sometimes pictures are deceiving, you know. You know, pictures are more, you know, they add a little bit more color to them, you know, they brighten them up a little bit. And so they just got to see it for themselves, you know. So when I go, yeah. So so how I've learned, you know, like when you go see a house and I'm I'm seeing it for the first time, too, I'm on I'm on the client side. I go through it and I'm not going through it trying to sell it to them. You know, first of all, it's not my house. Yeah. I'm not trying to sell it. I go I go through it with them inspecting, you know, like, oh, yeah, this is nice. OK, this is what you're looking for. Oh, this is not going to work. You know, I'll tell them it's not going to work before they tell me it's not going to work, you know. So it's not like I'm trying to sell them a specific house. I'm just trying to get them what they want, you know. So, yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, fun. Yeah, it sounds honestly I've considered it myself like 10 times in the past couple of years. You know, one of those things that I like to sell. I just hate selling. I hate that, you know, I like I like the people aspect, but I also don't like the. I don't know. I hate selling. No. OK. I hate selling something I don't believe in. Yeah. You know, I hate selling it. I had other sales jobs and, you know, I had to go because I felt like it was a scam. You know, I don't believe real estate is a scam. I think it helps people. It empowers people. You know, I think it's bringing value, you know, financial value to your life. You know, real estate, you know, appreciates, you know, and even in the market that we're in now, you know, you can be real estate as far as a financial investment, whether you do it for a financial investment or not. It's still a financial investment, you know. So, you know, you can beat it. So I don't I don't feel like like I'm scamming people or, you know, so. Yeah, so that makes me enjoy it more. Yeah. Yeah, but it's good. But yeah, enough about real estate. Yeah, let's stop talking about that. It's like about Jesus. You know, like this this week, I was actually talking to one of my co-workers about what, you know, how how the Bible, like what the what the story, what the message of the Bible is, what the Bible actually is, because I listen to I mean, obviously, I believe this before, but you sent me the things about with Andy, Andy Stanton. Yeah. And like how he talks about the Bible being, you know, it's it's several different collections of documents over a long period of time. And it's, you know, I don't know. I guess I said this to you the other day when we were talking about it, but like, you know, the Bible being like if you were to go up to God and be like, hey, God, why did you give us the Bible as we know it in 2023? He probably would say, I didn't give you the Bible as it is in 2023. You know, I gave you men who. you testimony and wrote down what, you know, what their experience was of me and what I told them to say in certain portions of it. And all of those different documents were then later compiled, you know, and they all make up this one seamless message of Jesus. And he had so many questions about that. You know, because the Bible is like the way we put it together. It's complicated. It's a complicated book. It's not in chronological order or anything like that. It doesn't make sense. Like, how does Israel tie into this or that? And I was like, look, man, it's real simple. You have God wanting to redeem mankind because of our lack of faith in him. That's it. And he did it through Jesus. And Jesus is the only message of the Bible that is like actually relevant and important. It's not a self-help book. It's not, you know, it's not a, it's not a, like, you don't, you shouldn't use it for prophecy and, you know, all of this stuff in your own life. I feel like most people, I can't understand that. I'm not going to. People have twisted that to no end, but, you know, it's like, you need to like understand that it's the message of Jesus. That's what it is. And Jesus is the only thing in that that's like actually, you know, relevant in a universal context to everyone on the planet. Yeah. You know, and that's, I guess that's what I tried to, you know, I'm trying to say, like, I don't remember everything I said to him, but like that is it. Jesus is the only thing that applies universally to everyone on the planet in all time periods. That's crazy to think about. Yeah. Crazy. Not the Bible because it's different different cultures, different, you know, situations, circumstances, context, but Jesus, yeah, Jesus applies to all people, all nations everywhere. That's, that's, that's wild to think of. I would even go as far as saying the universe, you know, Jesus, you know, that's, that's wild to think of. But yeah, no, I have a couple of questions for you about that. So, so yeah, because I talk to people like I've always talked to people, you know, about grace and, you know, what, what I guess many will consider the grace gospel to me is just gospel. And when we start talking about this topic of the Bible, I don't talk to anymore. Like I don't have much contact with, you know, my IFB friends or, and the ones that I still keep in touch, we don't really talk about, you know Bible or, you know my views on, on grace and Jesus. But what I do, who, who I talk to now is non-denominational, you know, I have a lot of non-denominational friends that, you know, and, and, and in my opinion, they're in, they're in the same boat or in the same type of bondage to the law. And, you know, they still have the guilt and that shame, you know, that we see, you know, where we came from, you know, the IFB movement. I mean, and, you know, I talked to them and I was talking, I know I'll be talking to some, I'm having dinner with, with my, my wife and I were having dinner with another couple this, this, this afternoon, this evening. And I know this conversation is going to come up, they go to church and, you know, and we, we've had this conversation before, but one of the things that we discussed was the topic of the Bible and, and, and it, it, we have complicated it so much. I think we have a, you know, no doubt that there is a church culture in 2023, like no, in no other time in history. I think there's also a Bible culture that we've created. And I, I believe religion has created this, this Bible culture, this church culture that kind of runs into each other. But what we tend to do with scripture is that we tend to impose that culture into scripture. We have come up with words and we put them into scripture. So now we give scripture the definition that we have in our culture for a certain word. You know, I was, I was thinking of this example this morning, you know, a parable when Jesus is talking about the, the, so the parable of the sower, you know, and it says some of them, you know, received the word but, you know, and then, you know, the world, the devil came and, and, and stole the seed. So we take that word, word, and we take it to mean, you know, oh, that's talking about the Bible. That's talking about, you know, Genesis through revelations, you know, somebody receiving the word of God, you know, the Bible. And we take words like word of God and word, and we impose them on scripture and tell something that means totally opposite or totally something different. Here's another one. You know, we take the word, and this is not for all the Christian world, but the word, the word, word is more, a little bit broad, but this is a little specific to a different denomination. You take words like soul winning and you go to Proverbs 1130, you know, he that wins the souls is wise. And then we superimpose this word that we know today as soul winning, which means going out on the streets and knocking on doors. And we superimpose it on the Bible. I'm like, that's, that's just silly, you know? I mean, that's just, that's just straight up ignorant. And we do that a lot. Those are just two, you know, really basic, really simple examples, you know, of it. But we do that a lot to, to, to scripture. And I think it is a lack of understanding of what the scripture really is and what, what's the purpose for it, which you were saying before, you know, before I started talking, you know, how it's, it's the story of Jesus. I think it's very important to clear what we're not saying. We're not saying the Bible is not inspired. We're not saying it's not preserved. I will, I would subscribe to it. It's, it's, it's inspired. It's preserved, you know, but it's the message. It's the message of the Bible that, that that's the purpose of it, you know, and it is God's, God's word is a God breathed word. I do believe that. And because it comes from God, we find, you know, wisdom in it and we find, you know, many, many good things, good principles in there. We find all those good things, but the purpose of the book is not principles. It's not wisdom. I think the purpose of the book primarily is Jesus. Of course, it's going to have those things because it's come from, it comes from God, but that's not the purpose of the book. The purpose of the book is Jesus. And, you know, these things have I written unto you that you might, you know, then, then you might have life, you know, the purpose of them is Jesus it's, it's to tell us, you know, the story of Jesus. And, and I mean, there's no other book like it, but I, I, it's been a couple of years now that I, I am done, you know, looking at the Bible, you know, opening it up every day and looking for wisdom and how am I going to get through this day and comfort. And it has those things don't get me wrong. And, you know, oh, you know, an instruction manual and how do I live? You know, it's going to tell me how to love my wife better and how to raise my kids better. And it has all that, don't get me wrong, but that's not the purpose of the book. You know, there's other books that that's the purpose of, you know, it's others, other books that, you know, tell you how to have a good marriage or how to tell you how to, you know, raise your kids or parenting books, but the Bible is not a parenting book. It's not a marriage book, you know? And like I said, don't get me wrong. I, although it contains, you know, good advice, but I don't think that's the purpose or the point the book was giving, you know? So in reading the Bible, I stopped looking for that, you know, I stopped looking for gold nuggets of wisdom and, you know, and stop looking at a principle or if I have a decision to make in my life, I'm like, oh, let's go to the Bible. The Bible is going to lead me and guide me, you know, to make a decision. Yeah, no, no, no, that's in my, but that's not the point of the scriptures. That's not the point of the Bible, you know? So my question to you is this, what would you consider the Bible a living book, you know? Because I've got that, I had that question asked to me this week, you know, and I answered yes or no, but I want to hear from you, like, would you consider the Bible a living book? No, I wouldn't. The reason for that is I am living and when I read it, I will see it from many different perspectives every time. I think the reason a lot of people would say that it is living, and I've heard this before, it's just, you know, it's like one of those things, it's like, okay, you know, that's your, that's your point of view and, you know, I'll have mine. But, you know, I would say no, because, you know, I've read it and, you know, I used to read it every day. Every day I read it, I needed it, you know, I felt like I needed it because if I didn't read it, I wasn't right with God, you know, I wasn't going to be walking on the right path. And now I know, I understand now that it's not the Bible that helped me do that. It was Jesus. in me. And that was, that was a key distinction point for me of like, yeah, when Jesus was talking about the word, he wasn't talking about the King James Bible or any other one in 2020. You know, they weren't close to existing. So he was talking about himself. And yeah, so, and even those documents of the, of the epistles and all the, the gospels actually say that, like, you know, they say Jesus is the word. It's like, you know, we missed that in a way, or I did back then. But now I understand. So no, I would say that, like, every time I read it now, or I hear it, I get a different perspective on what it was trying to say, maybe about Jesus. But nothing, I really don't look any deeper than that, than that. You know, but before it, it seems like it was transforming, you know, almost like a kaleidoscope, you know, but the thing about a kaleidoscope, and that's kind of a, it's kind of a good analogy, because the thing about a kaleidoscope is that the person looking into it has to turn it. You know what I mean? So like, it doesn't move, it's not dynamic, unless you're actually physically moving it. And I feel like that's what the Bible is. If I'm not trying to see something, you know, different from how I already know it, it's not gonna, it's not gonna be there, I'm not gonna see it, you know, some people, I feel like some people have done the Joseph Smith thing with the Bible. You know, how he put his, he put his face into like a hat with some with some crystals in it, and like, you know, hallucinated for a little while, and then comes out with Mormonism, you know, and that's like, why you have all these different cults, people have just locked themselves away with this book, that contains a ton of history, a lot of great events, but come out complete, I mean, forgive me for saying this, but almost complete wackos, saying a book is living, you know, that, that, you know, they can predict the end of the world, you know, stuff like that. And, and even down to the point of like, wanting to obey the Mosaic law, halfway saying they're right with God, like, you know, that's kind of nuts. Let's just be honest, it is. It is. So, but I think, I think the most, most people mean it, what they mean when they say the book is living, I think they, it's because they feel it talks to them, you know, they feel that God himself is talking to them through the Bible. And if that's your definition of it, yeah, I don't, I don't think it's, yeah, it's not a living book. It's, it's, it's, it's a document, you know, it's inspired, it's preserved, God has preserved it. But, but it's not, there's no continued revelation. God is not speaking into the Bible and speaking to you. And that's where it goes dangerous. That's what you, well, that's what happens when, you know, and then what, well, that's what you're talking about, you know, people just lock themselves in with this book, and then they start meditating and getting inspired themselves and motivated and start thinking and start twisting and start saying, Oh, well, this is what this means, because this is what God told me, instead of looking at it for what it is, and context and definitions, and they go into, you know, Oh, you know, I was alone. And, you know, yeah, like you said, they come out, you know, wacko. So I don't think it was a book meant for God to speak to you. In that way, you know, in a way where he's gonna, you know, tell you something, you know, special or unique or something that's gonna, you know, a principle or wisdom or, or something like that. No, I don't think that's, that's the purpose of it, you know. I would say it's living in the context of the author of the book is still alive. You know, I would say that, you know, with that, but even in that you're not saying that the book is living. Because I'm holding one of my hands right now. And like, you know, you're not talking about the actual item of the book, or are you? Right? No. That would be hard for me to define because um, the author is alive. You know, it's not a dead, and it's an ongoing, it's, it's a ongoing message. It's a, it's a, it's living in the, in the fact that it still has power. The message still has power to bring people from dead spiritually to life. You know, it's very powerful. The message is very powerful. The message that that book contains. And I think it's a primary source of that message. Now, that's not the only place you could find that message now, you know, but that's the source of it. The, I do believe that the Bible is the source of where that message has, has, has come from. Not the only source. Yeah. There's historical sources, but it's, I think it's the main source. And it, I think it's the most powerful, the most clear source that we have of the message, you know, of the gospel. So in that way, in that way, I would say it's living, you know, um, cause it's a, it's, it's, it's a message that's, that's continuing. It has, it has life. It's hasn't, the movement hasn't stopped. The message hasn't stopped. It's not a dead message, you know, but I believe that's the only, under that context, I would call it a living book, which in reality, yeah, it's, it's a living message, really, you know, if you want to get down to specifics, you know? Yeah. And then like it, I would say it even like, um, you know, it hasn't, it's a history book that has written the end, like humanity, you know, in, in a way, because like it predicts the, it talks about Jesus returning, you know, um, you know, millennial kingdom and stuff like that. And, and to our knowledge that has not occurred yet, you know what I mean? Like, I'm pretty sure it hasn't, but you know, it's like, it, it, it, it's, it's a historical document in most places, but it's, it actually is a futuristic document and others talk about things that are going to happen. So like, if you take it as a story from like beginning to end the story of humanity and, and our place in Jesus and what he's doing and God is doing and, you know, his, his affairs with humanity, not all of them, but some of them, some of the ones that really, really matter, I would think, yeah, it's the story hasn't ended yet. Uh, and it tells us what that end is. So, I mean, in a way, in a way, chronologically, and, you know, when you speak of in, in time as a linear fashion, you know, I mean, it's kind of still moving like you're saying, but it's not, let me ask you this, let me put it like this. Let's, let's go a little deeper. Let's take the book of Acts, you know, sometimes I hear like, you know, I hear teachers and preachers that are like talking about Acts chapter two, where like tongues of fire were on the people and like, you know, I even heard this recently at a church where it's like, they're talking about it as in that could happen again, you know, the Holy Spirit could come down and fill us again. And, you know, if my perspective of that is like, hey, that that's talking about an event that happened, that happened already. And it's a historical event and it's telling us about it, but it's not going to happen again. Yeah. Like that's, that's already done. We have it. We have the power of God. God is moving still in many different ways. We don't control that. They didn't control that, you know, stuff like that. Um, so like, what do you think? I mean, do you think that's? No, I absolutely agree with it. First of all, I think the spirit of God or the Holy Spirit or God, he can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, however he wants. But yeah, you're, you're absolutely right. And that just goes to what I was saying at the beginning, that we impose our church culture onto the Bible, you know? Um, yeah, take it for what it is. The, the acts is the book of acts is it's a, it's a document, historical document that, you know, it tells us about the church and how the church was started. And, you know, the, the birth of the church and, you know, how, how this movement started and spread, you know, that take it for what it is. It's not a, it's not a prophetic book. It's not a manual. It's not a how to be filled with the spirit or how to get, you know, how to speak in tongues. That's not the purpose of it. You know, it's in this grand story of Jesus, you know, part of it is the church and how it was birthed and, you know, and, and how the message has spread and that's why it's in there. Um, but yeah, no, totally, totally agree. It's not a, it's not a, it's not a book of, uh, samples of what we should do or what we should look forward to or what we should want. No, it's, it's just most of it, like you said, it's, it's, it's historical document. Again, I'm not saying it's not preserved. I'm not saying it's not inspired because people think it's like, oh, so you think it's not preserved or not, not inspired and not the word of a God, you know? And then I go, okay. Yeah. It's a fine word of God, first of all. But anyways, you know, you mean to tell me it's not all that and I'm like no it is I'm not it's not what I'm saying but you got to take take it for what it is you know you know and people just be throwing it all together this this book of thou that's thousands of years you know there's written over thousands of years by multiple offer authors and just throw it all together and just say the Bible says you know first of all the Bible doesn't say anything the Bible is what the Bible means is the definition of the word Bible it means a collection of books you know so that's what it is a collection of books can't speak a person could speak you know somebody that wrote books can speak but but uh but the Bible it's not a you know it's not something that's that that speaks or talks you know so but but we that's just church culture that's a word that we've taken you know to mean certain things you know to mean that this collection of books tells us this and it doesn't you know Matthew we got the account of Matthew we got the account of Luke said we John said you know Paul said Timothy said but not the Bible you know and again I'm not saying this is not inspired I'm not saying it's not preserved but um but yeah it's it's it's I think it's just silly you know what our culture has done with with the book you know I think we've elevated it to a to a spot that it shouldn't be elevated you know I think we worship it and like again I don't think that that that that was the purpose of of the book yeah yeah I don't I don't think so either and to be honest with you I think that turns off a lot of people yeah it either derails the gospel like in a way and in the eyes of a lot of people because then the focus is not on Jesus right like the focus is not what book do I have mm-hmm and am I performing things correctly according to the book yeah and then they miss the whole site miss whole the whole picture of yeah Jesus is and what he did and who we are because of him and yeah that's I think that's dangerous I think that when you do that as dangerous it is I think I think the the Bible as we know it you know whatever version you want to you want to pick it's the most danger one of the most dangerous books out there I mean and history will tell us that you know I mean there's been wars started you know like physical wars literally wars you know with bloodshed and you know and you know just because the people think they're that they're doing something that is in the book and they have to execute it and perform it so they're gonna go out and kill people there's cults and and people have died living that book you know people have died performing that book and killed and harmed many people performing that book in my opinion that that's that's very dangerous you know one of the most powerful books out there you know I mean don't don't don't get me wrong you know one of the most I believe you know supernatural in the way that again because of the message and because the power that it has had in spreading that message but one of the most dangerous books when it's taken out of context and when it's misinterpret and when it's not taken for what it is and you know when we impose our culture into it yeah yeah you know yeah a hundred percent yeah I think you just made a really good point there with the you know how great it is I mean it's influences just measurable you can't hear it you know and it's a great book I'm not against it you know like I think maybe some people would hear us talking right now right Bible I'm not I'm not a god love it you know the Bible has made me who I am today in many ways you know yeah yeah today you know so um yeah I mean the Proverbs are great you know you're not gonna find any any more wisdom anywhere else than you would right but but also you got to think about it I mean that's those are historic you know Jewish Israeli documents you know they were written by Israelite kings and transcribed by the the people there and it's all in their cultural context for Americans in 2023 you know under Joe Biden as president it wasn't you know it's like sit in church or whatever in our homes and we're gonna read it like it was you know sure at that point some people would be like yeah the Bible's living I can write you know no no in that way it's not that way yeah and that's and that's what most people mean yeah I was like oh it's it'll speak to me like it speak no because it's but it spoke to them in a totally different way than it's speaking to you now and they're okay but don't get me wrong there's like two minutes left but don't get wrong there's like you know there's some portions of it that's like hey it does apply to us today it's very clear-cut and dry you can you can take something from it I'm not saying you can't take something from it but it's just like we need to be really really careful as to what we're taking yeah yeah like the law of Moses is not for you it was not written to you you were not in mind when it was given the Bible actually even says that very in the New Testament that it was not for you it was else in a different time under a different covenant not for you and that that's like probably one of the biggest errors that's made truthfully yeah no you're definitely right and and like you said don't don't get me wrong I love the Bible I mean there was a point in time in my life that I used to believe it kept me from saying I used to sleep with the Bible you know I used to you know like I I grew up with this book you know when I was an infant you know my parents used to put the Bible under underneath you know my pillow at night and everything I grew up with a special bond and a special attachment and I do have a special love for the book but you got to take it for what it is you know it's inspired is it's preserved it's historical and they're documents written you know by men you know inspired by God of course but you can't take them to to mean something that they're not