How To Develop Emotional Safety and Become Famous at Home - Josh Straub

Today's guest is Josh Straub. 

We go deep today talking about:

• How to become Famous At Home
• Emotional safety and how to build it for deeper relationships and connection with your wife and kids
• The importance of meta-communication for leadership and limiting conflict
• How to connect with your family on an emotional level without being overwhelmed by your own emotions
• Navigating explosive emotions in kids
• Rekindling trust and connection after your wife has seemingly checked out

Joshua Straub, Ph.D. is a husband, dad, speaker, author, and family and leadership coach. A champion of human empathy, Josh leads Famous at Home, a company equipping leaders, organizations, military families, and churches in emotional intelligence and family wellness. Josh also is a Fellow of the Townsend Institute for Leadership and Counseling. As a marriage and family coach and consultant, Josh coaches leaders to be famous at home so they can thrive on their stage. He also speaks regularly for Joint Special Operations Command and serves military families across the country. Josh is author/ coauthor of seven books including Safe House: How Emotional Safety is the Key to Raising Kids Who Live, Love, and Lead Well and coauthor, along with his wife Christi, of two children’s book, What Am I Feeling? and What Do I Do With Worry? He and Christi also host the weekly Famous at Home podcast.


Find Josh online at:
Website: famousathome.com   
Instagram: @famousathome
Podcast: Famous at Home
 Email:  josh@famousathome.com


Resources mentioned:

• Safe House: How Emotional Safety Is the Key to Raising Kids Who Live, Love, and Lead Well
• What Am I Feeling?
• Boundaries Updated and Expanded Edition: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life

---


Welcome to the Dad.Work Podcast, where men are forged into elite husbands and fathers by learning what it takes to become harder to kill, easier to love, and equipped to lead.

Get ready to start building the only legacy that truly matters - your family.

[Free Resource] Family Leadership Blueprint

https://dad.work/blueprint/

Resources, Links, Show Notes:

https://dad.work/podcast/

Follow Dad.Work:

https://instagram.com/dadwork.curt/
https://youtube.com/@dadwork/

Transcript

0:00

We seek fame everywhere outside the home, our time, attention, our identity. It's just torn. And yet at the end of life, when you look at end of life research, it really is about, I wish I would have lived the life I wanted to and not what others expected of me. And the world outside is expecting other things of us rather than, you know, and at the end of life, I mean, it's all really all about. How, how well you love your family and how well you showed up for your family and your biggest fans live under your roof. All right, guys, welcome back to another episode of the dad work podcast. This is Kurt Storing, your host of the founder of dad work. And today I'm joined by Dr. Josh Straub. We met in Colorado at this mastermind, which the listeners will know all about because I've had so many dudes from integrated on, but I'm really excited to have you because you kind of like, what did I say before squared the circle of all this healing work, all this emotional work that I did. When things were really hard, but you've also then showed me that this is actually like, there's a biblical truth to this and that connection sort of like, it just made everything right in my world. So first of all, man, welcome.

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 1:07

I wonder if you could just tell people what you're about, what you guys do at famous at home. And then we'll be jumping in the conversation.

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 1:12

Yeah. Thank you Kurt so much for It's an honor. And, you know, I love that this whole biblical narrative around emotions, set you free in a lot of ways, especially as you talk about the work that you do. So my wife and I lead an organization called Famous at Home. And one of the biggest things that we found is that there's so much vying for our attention in the world around us. We seek fame everywhere outside the home, our time, attention, our identity. It's just torn. And yet at the end of life, when you look at end of life research, it really is about, I wish I would have lived the life I wanted to and not what others expected of me and the world outside is expecting other things of us rather than, you know, and at the end of life, I mean, it's all really all about. How well you loved your family and how well you showed up for your family. your biggest fans live under your roof. And that's kind of the biggest thing that we talk about is how do we, we end all of our podcast episodes with, the greatest red carpet you'll ever walk is through your front door. you gotta find what biggest fans are already running as you walk into your house figuratively down the red carpet every day, whether you're coming home from work, whether you're coming home from the grocery store, whatever it is, you know, or your kids are coming in that red carpet, you know, they're coming home from school or whatever. They just want you, they want you and they want your attention and the same thing with husbands and wives. And so we're just really all about helping people prioritize famous at home because when we see. When we are famous at home, research shows over and over again, it shows up how, how we, how we serve other people, how we show up on our respective stages, wherever that We're

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 2:48

awesome

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 2:50

respected, well known scene or things more blessing

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 2:58

this. the I'm

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 3:01

out into the world

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 3:07

which will about work were hard there's a this

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 3:34

really what we're all

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 3:35

And

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 3:37

have their marriages strong and have that, have a trickle down effect onto their relationship with their kids.

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 3:42

That's so good. And what a perfect name, man. I love that because it just makes everything like so exactly where you need to be looking. And for me, I think the distraction is a huge part of how we don't show up and how we do not become famous at home. And that's one of the things I hope to dive into. But as you were saying there about. That, almost like this curb appeal of life, not matching the living room appeal. That's something that I, I guessed Christian winger was like, yeah, if, if everyone's looking on the outside and they think it's good, but you know, that as soon as you get inside, it's not actually what it looks like from the, from the curb, there's a misordered thinking there. And I think it's so interesting to see just all the second order effects of like, well, I'll just focus on my business. Well. Maybe not, man. Like maybe that's not actually going to go as well as it would have if you just focused at home. And that's what we do this podcast as well. So, could you give us like maybe a 30, 000 foot view of just some of the points that we can touch on here? Because I want to take this a little bit more personal in a moment, but I also want people to know what's coming. So if you, if I'm like, okay, I'm just, I'm a dad, I'm a Christian leader. I'm like, I'm just trying to start leading because the world around me has always told me. You're not supposed to lead your, your, my dad never taught me how to lead. I'm just kind of going, how do I hold this all together when everything's against me? What is your sort of 30, 000 foot view of how to be famous at home? And then we'll go deeper into all those.

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 5:05

Well, yeah, it's a pretty big Pretty big, softball there in terms of how you look at that. You know, I think number of years ago, I was, when I first got my start, in counseling, I was counseling juvenile delinquents and I was like 21 years old. I'm fresh out of college. I'm working in a maximum security juvenile detention center. And then I quickly progressed. Once I started working and working on my counseling degree. I became a chaplain at a juvenile detention center, started working with those with misdemeanors, but every juvenile delinquent I ever worked with, I can look back and go, and I've never met one who had a great relationship with his dad. Every single one had a, either didn't know who their dad was, or just had a poor relationship. And I remember doing fatherlessness research at that time and looking at really the, the social ills of our day and looking at the lack of fathers, in, in the lives of, in, within these statistics at a core, core level of all these statistics, you saw fatherlessness as, as, as a real big, almost cause to this and, and, and, and I

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 6:08

and name man to be and

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 6:16

I looked my own life,

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 6:18

don't home

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 6:28

the

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 6:35

think that it looks the there to see just of Like that's going as it have

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 6:52

where passion

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 6:54

that's 000

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 7:00

saw how, how

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 7:02

that. Because want this a

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 7:08

so on so forth

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 7:09

if trying me You're

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 7:18

my dad

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 7:20

me. how hold this when everything's against sort of

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 7:26

didn't that other men did through the church, through the years that really helped me to grow in my spiritual growth. And so I think that community of men, I think all of this really comes down from a 30, 000 foot view. How can we really support and champion fathers, not just in their own homes, but also within the community of believers so that I'm a spiritual father to other young men, other. Boys, my son's age and all of dads come together and we get the support in a community, a local community where we have other fathers who are championing the same things that I am in my home. I have other men speaking those similar values into my son's life, where they might listen to him before they're going to listen to me, or those dads are providing something, a strength that I don't have, an area, a hobby, something that maybe, you know. There's all kinds of, hobbies like music, music would be a great one. I'm not, I'm not musically inclined. I have a lot of great musician friends who my kids can look up to and learn from, who are also incredible dads. And so I think from a 30,000 foot view, our passion is, yeah, let's help people. Let's help men show up well in their own homes and lead well, lead their wives well, lead their kids well. But then also, how do we show up in a community of other men where we can really support the community of believers?

josh_3_12-01-2023_140249: 8:47

guys

ADS 1: 8:47

Hey guys, it's Kurt Storing. I want to take a quick break to tell you about our family leadership blueprint. If you want to lead your family better, if you want to build an intimate marriage, if you want to confidently raise great kids, then I highly suggest you download the family leadership blueprint by dad work. You can find that for free at dad. org slash blueprint. It includes five main pillars that you need as a family leader to thrive and see success. Head on over to dad. work slash blueprint to download your free copy today. That's dad. work slash blueprint. All right, let's get back to the show.

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 9:22

And a lot of that work, if I am correct on this, is emotional safety, emotional regulation, nervous system stuff, presumably. And for me, when I think about all this kind of stuff, because this was where I needed the work, I was like, I was super hard. Until I wasn't then I was mean and angry and explosive and then the shame spiral would come But the word that comes to mind with all of the actual work itself Is influence and the reason that I like the word influence is because it's a little bit more masculine And I think it gets guys attentions a little bit more then you're like, oh emotional intelligence guys are like, I don't need that But if you're like, bro, if you want influence over your teenage sons, if you want influence in your wife's heart, then you're going to need to know how to show up in a way that is emotionally connected and safe. And I think, tell me if I'm wrong, but like, there's just no way to go about building connection, relationship, and intimacy without this emotional piece. Do you have anything to add on to

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 10:20

Oh, it's 100 percent accurate. I just got out of a, I do a lot of work with Joint Special Operations Command. I, I just did a marriage intensive, a couple weeks ago. And, and I do a lot of work with, these men who are literally trained to capture or kill. That is their job. And I remember in 2015, I wrote a book, on emotional safety in kids and, and showing up well with emotional safety and how to cultivate that in the home. And I remember, showing up. At Fort Bragg asked to speak on this whole idea of emotional safety. And I had never been more nervous in my life because I'm, I'm talking to these men who are trained to capture or kill. And it's re it's resonated ever since. I mean, I've been doing this work now for nine years within the military, almost nine years. And the reason is because the very thing that they're trained to turn off to survive on the battlefield is the very thing they have to turn back on to survive when they get back home and, and their wives get that their, their kids understand that. And even they get that. And the cool part about our military is they want to be the best in everything. And so when they grab a hold of this, I mean, these men, manliest of men that I've ever met in my life, they grasp ahold of this emotional safety thing and man, it's just cool to watch, them, them show up. like they do. I remember, this impacting me personally. First of all, back shortly after, so I had learned all this, right? I'd learned all this in my doctoral research. I'd learned all this intellectually, right? You know, Ephesians 3 19 says, Paul writes to the

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 11:49

this presumably this kind

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 11:57

your heart

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 11:58

where like I

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 12:04

all this stuff a

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 12:09

comes work

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 12:11

just had our first

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 12:15

is like you your to

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 12:33

puree, spackle it her shirt. I remember

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 12:43

Do you anything add on

josh_3_12-01-2023_140249: 12:44

his emotions and

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 12:46

And the, the wild part about that is it was about a week later that I left for a week to go to a leadership retreat. Because that's what, that's what you do. You leave your wife, your, your lonely wife at home and you go to a leadership retreat. But the, the preface of that leading up to that, a good friend of mine, Dr. John Townsend, he wrote a book. With Henry Cloud called Boundaries, he had told Christy and I, he said, if you let Josh, he told Christy, he said, if you let Josh come to this retreat, I promise you in 10 years, it'll pay off. And what happened at that retreat a week later was fascinating because one of the key pieces I learned at that retreat. I mean in some townsend was that the world's top leaders from Ford 500 Forbes 500 leaders, military leaders, business leaders, you name it, athletes, their ability, the neurobiological research was that their ability, the highest capacity leaders had the ability not just to do clinical content based conversation, in other words, just the business of the day, but they had the ability to do process based conversation. In other words, how they felt about the business of the day. They had the ability to see what another person was feeling about that transaction. Business transaction or that, the, the, you know, what, what was the fear? What was their, what, what did they feel brave about, you know? And I remember hearing that and thinking, if I want to be a great leader, I got to get this right in my home first. And so I left that retreat and I went home and I told Christie, I apologized to her and I said, I'm so sorry. D in April I for the ways that I have not pursued your heart or asked you what was going on in your heart. And she said to be fair, she's like, I don't even know what's going on in my own heart. We write about this, she writes about this in our book, Famous at Home, and just kind of that, that, that crossroads that we were at at that point in our lives. But I remember going home and saying, here's what I'd like to do. I'd like to spend 15 minutes a day where we sit down and I listen to one Positive emotion that you had today. What was one good feeling you had? You felt brave, you felt content, you felt happy, you felt joyful you were, expectant, you know, looking forward to something. And then I'd like to hear one uncomfortable emotion that you had today. What is an emotion where you felt sad? depressed, rejected, jealous, embarrassed. I really want to hear what's on that next level down. And that was an exercise. We started doing that 15 minutes a day where I would share, she would share. And what it did was it took us beyond content based conversation. How many times our son needed to be fed when we were feeding them and how much sleep he was getting and how many minutes in those infant years to. The feelings of those moments to how are we actually doing? And I believe when scripturally, you know, you talked about this as we take some of this research data and we bring it down scripturally, you know, the Bible says that, you know, when you get married, you become one flesh. And I think in Proverbs, when you read the whole of scripture, it says to guard your heart for it is the wellspring of life. And so when I look at my wife and I look at our marriage, and I know that we're one flesh, I've got one marital heart to guard, I'm gonna go back to what Tim Keller said when my marriage is. strong we step out into the world in strength. But in order for my marriage to be strong, I've got to be paying attention and fighting for what's going on in Christi's heart, and I've got to protect what's going on in Christi's heart and be prepared for maybe what's coming ahead. communicating and so to guard her heart is to hear, and sit, and listen, and be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. Because in verse 20, that's James chapter 1:19-20 verse 20 says, because human anger does not accomplish God's righteousness. And so often what we do is we get defensive. Why don't you ever ask me about what's on my heart? You know, are you kidding me? Like, why don't you, you know, and we get defensive as husbands and we, and we, and the next thing, you know, everyone's limbic system is, ratcheted up and we're going back and forth. We're defending, we're arguing, we're using sarcasm, passive aggression, whatever our dances, we get into these things. I think one proactive way to really enter into our spouse's world is this whole idea of just sitting and listening to one positive and one uncomfortable emotion because it's getting to the heart of our wives, and that in turn is getting to our own hearts as men as well, and I believe that's good leadership. some of our

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 17:03

That's so good. That's a very actionable thing that guys can start doing right now. And there's so many pieces to this in terms of you listed off probably more emotions and like the average American man would even know. So there's vocabulary there, which is very important. There's also then the ability to sit and listen and ask heart questions. There's also the ability to know what's happening in your heart. And so I think maybe I'm just trying to think about like the the pillars of this system here and I use system sort of loosely but let's go with the guy who is hearing this. He's like great. That's awesome but like I don't know anything about my feelings, I don't know anything about my emotions and When I try I immediately get defensive reactive, etc So we're going a little bit in the nervous system And for me, I just needed to know that this existed like just personally as soon as I heard Like about the nervous system and about how it was regulating. I was like, Oh, I don't have to judge myself anymore. I don't have to feel guilty about this anymore. I just got to do the work. And for me working, I was like, dude, let's go. But I didn't know what to do. So can you walk us through maybe a little bit of how to do some of that work and maybe just some of the background for guys to understand this and pursue it confidently.

josh_3_12-01-2023_140249: 18:14

of

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 18:14

Yeah, I think it all starts by understanding what we have come to believe about emotion. What, what were we taught growing up? You know, were we taught to not cry because men don't cry? The reality is, is that true emotional health is the ability to have a full range of emotion from positive all the way to uncomfortable. And I use uncomfortable cause I think every emotion is given to us by God for a purpose to teach us about our circumstances, our soul, and the world around us. And, you know, I think it's important that we first, Identify what were the messages that we were given because if you can't if you're sitting in a movie theater And you're fighting back tears, or you're with some people and you're fighting back tears Something's really moving you and you don't want to let those tears out Those emotions have more control of you than you have of them, and so I think it's important. You know I heard a great For me as a man, I don't want to be owned. Like, I want to own up to my stuff. I want to own my emotions. I want to own my, like, if I have sin in my life, I want to repent. I want to be aware of that. I want to, I want to make sure that I'm constantly working on who I am as a man. And, I don't want my emotions to own me. I want to own them. But if

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 19:32

that.

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 19:37

go to work

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 19:38

like man would

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 19:41

got to identify

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 19:44

to to your heart

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 19:52

know, what are we

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 19:55

this

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 19:55

what are we covering

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 19:57

system of

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 20:02

alcohol, I

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 20:05

know feelings defensive a little in the nervous this just

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 20:20

But they

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 20:22

how

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 20:23

don't

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 20:26

anymore so can

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 20:39

one of the best start, and I would, I would highly encourage this. We wrote it, my wife and I wrote a children's book called, What Am I Feeling? And in it, there's a pull out feelings poster in the back of the book. And you can, it's perforated so you can hang it on their bedroom or that wall or that type of thing. But I think a feelings chart is one of the most significant ways that we can enter into our emotions and our feelings. And so, I don't mean to be, please, I don't want to speak condescendingly. But in so many ways as men, I was this way. I mean, we're, we're kids when it comes to our emotions. Like we need, we need to rediscover that inner child. And so even by simply reading a children's book like that with your kids, it gives you the ability to also with your kids point to what it is that you've been feeling. And so a feelings chart is a great way to do that. You know, there's so many online you could also download and print off. The other thing that I would, I would encourage you to do or to think about is that true growth happens, like growth, like as leaders, you know, if you're a leader, you want to be growing and true growth happens when we're thinking, feeling and relating at the same time. So in other words. That's why stories are so powerful story. I told about my wife, you know, saying, why don't you ever ask me about what's on my heart? I guarantee you, if you're a man who's experienced something similar with your wife, you resonated with that story. And there was a feeling within you that now all of a sudden you're grabbing a hold of and going, Oh, that 15 minutes a day exercise. I'm going to, I'm going to go home and do that because it connected to an emotion and a story. And even though we weren't relating, you're relating. To me, as you listen to my voice. And so that's where true growth happens. And so I want to give you an example of this. I'm going to go back to the juvenile delinquents that w that I used to work with. I remember I would sit with those, with those guys. And, and the very first thing I would do is give them a feelings chart because my job was to get them to feel remorse for their victims. But the reality is, is. I can't help somebody else feel something for somebody if that person has never felt what it has been on the receiving end of that feeling. So in other words, my ability to help them feel like that for me to feel empathy for them for not having a dad show up for them in their lives, me, or seeing their dad leave their mom or whatever they have experienced, whatever pain and heartache they've experienced in their lives. They need someone to feel that with them. And I remember one particular situation where I had, a kid, a court appointed to me, to do counseling hours. And then also they would get community service and then they would also have hours, for counseling. And I remember counseling this one kid and. He, we were getting nowhere. It was all content based, right? We're talking about content and process based conversation. We were just in content. He, he was incognitive. He wasn't in the emotional. And I remember one day he wanted to play basketball with some friends and he asked me if he could, we could switch our time. I think we had like a five o'clock appointment. He wanted to bump it up to seven or something. And, and, and I knew that it would make them angry if I did it. It's kind of one of those situations where I knew that I'd be. You know, almost walking on eggshells with this kid because I hadn't gotten anywhere, but I could feel the tension and I chose, even though I could, I chose not to I held the boundary of the time. Number one, I wanted to teach him the healthy boundary, but number two, I was okay with his anger towards me. And so we get into session. And I remember him just looking down. He had his arms crossed and he's staring down to the ground and I'm asking him questions. And all of a sudden I move it to the here and now. And I just said to him, I said, I get the feeling that you're angry with me. And he, and he, and he looks up at me and he looks me square in the eye and he cusses at me. And, and he says, no, you know, And he let me know how really angry he was at me. And in that moment, it was really beautiful because now he was feeling. So now he's not just thinking, now he's feeling and he's relating to another man. And we got to a place that by the end of that session, He said, I've never had another man sit with me and allow me to be angry without getting angry back and without cussing me out back. He said, this is the first time that's ever happened. And, and he thanked me for sitting with him and we got further. He told me all about his dad. He told me all about his broken relationship with. Men in his life, we got further in that day than we had at any other point because he was able to get into the emotion, thinking, feeling, and relating at the same time. And that's why a lot of times are so, so I could go into another conversation with that. I'll hold it for a second, especially with parenting. I think as men, for us, you asked the question, how do we identify it as men? I think we have to pay attention to, if you really want to grow as a leader. You've got to step into this and you've got to be able to identify when you're feeling those emotions, just take a step back, find a feelings chart or a feelings list somewhere and just, just even verbally out loud. Journaling is a great way to do this, by the way. Journaling is a fantastic way to do this and I would highly encourage any man, listening to this right now. If you're a leader in any way, just even taking a couple minutes a day just to journal a few feelings you had. especially in a prayer of examine with God and asking God how he, how, how he was showing up in that emotion. That'll take your, that'll take your relationship with God to a different level.

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 26:12

Man, that is, I've just been introduced to this kind of prayer. I think that you're sort of alluding to you here where it's a relational, it's not just the voicemail, but it's asking what's the lie I'm believing. And what is your truth? And what do you have me to learn here? That's, you know, I'm not feeling peace and joy. Why not? What do I need? And that's, man, it's so good, and I'm looking around, I've got like 18 journals, and I'm actually putting a journal together right now, just because I needed, I, yeah, I'll talk about that later, but, there, there's a number of things you said in here, and this is one of the things, man, that, honestly, it's so hard for me, because I, this was everything I had to do, and it's like, the last 10 years of my life, it's very difficult for me to condense it down to like, Oh man, I needed to know this. I needed to know this. And so I'm really glad you're using stories because those are going to be more impactful anyway, but everything you just said about that interaction, I think is really important for guys to hear for interactions with other human beings generally, but for your wife and for your kids. And what I heard there was empathy and validation. And you're able to just hold space. I've heard it called. Can you give just a quick overview of like the specifics of how you interact with this, this kid? Because I see so many people unwilling and unable to sit with their kid's emotions and their wife's emotions. And like you said, they get defensive and blamey, or they come down hard on their kids. Like I used to when I would yell because they were making me uncomfortable. And I wasn't willing to sit with that. So can we work towards comfort in other people's emotions? Like probably through our own comfort first, so that we can hold space and empathize because that was a game changer for me,

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 27:50

Yeah. I think that you have to first understand that you can't take it personally. You can't take someone else's emotional. lashing out on you personally, same thing with my wife. And that's very difficult to do because that's where it gets the closest, right? Is with your, with your spouse or even with your kids, but we've got to be able to, and again, I say this, I want to be careful how I say that we got to be able to, it's a journey and I think that unless you realize what you're signing up for, if you're new to this, what you're signing up for, you said. Even Kurt, for you, it's 10 years, you know, I'm, you know, I'm 44 years old. I'm just, you know, I've got, you know, I remember entering counseling. My parents took me when I was, when they were going through the divorce back in my, you know, preteen years, but I didn't really enter

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 28:40

of think to you what's you I'm feeling

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 28:53

it

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 28:58

I've journal And this man for to like life to for it with to they

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 29:56

that's

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 29:59

come kids. making that own

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 30:15

I simplified it down into emotionally safe for my kids, I can help them self regulate, I can help them, and the reason that every major outcome was linked to that, is to emotional safety, is because when you have a calming part of your brain, so the brain grows from the bottom to the top, I, I think it's important to explain this, the brain grows from the bottom to the top, so that back part of the brain, the amygdala, it's a lower functioning part of the brain, it's the fight or flight or freeze response. When that kicks in is when we're overreacting, that's when we get emotional, that's Okay. That's where the verse, you know, be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry comes in because human anger does not accomplish God's righteousness. And so whenever someone is emotionally lashing out, especially a close loved one, what it does is it raises that they're speaking out of their amygdala, their, their limbic system, then Our limbic system goes up and if our limbic system goes up and we react in anger, it's just ratcheting everybody up. And so as the, as, as a parent, or even as a spouse, we want to sign up to a lifelong journey of being comfortable when someone's emotionally lashing out at us so that we're helping bring down their amygdala. We're helping bring down their limbic system and that the, the atmosphere in the home, the environment. home. The energy in the home, if you will, is coming down into more of a sense of understanding, a spirit of peace, a spirit of understanding where we can connect and talk as opposed to everyone ratcheting up into our dance of Back and forth, passive aggression, you know, sarcasm, everything that we use, martyrdom, you know, we use these tactics to try to, I call them the, the, the idiotic ways we try to get our spouse to love us deeper, or the idiotic ways we try to get our, we try to get our kids to obey, right?

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 31:59

That's really good. Cause that's exactly what's happening. You're like, I'm so mad, but it's because you're not seeing me. It's because you're not giving me what I need. It's because I don't feel loved. So I can attack you. was

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 32:07

going to attack you.

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 32:08

Yeah, like it doesn't make it doesn't make any sense, but it doesn't my wife and I had a conversation where we went Here's what I'm likely to do when I'm triggered If you see this just be aware and so that conversation allowed us when we got there to be like, oh It's not me and what you said before I was gonna ask like I tell this to my guys to like it's not Like it's not you That she has a feeling about it's her feeling but that's really hard Is there anything that you've seen that would like help guys get around that if they've never experienced that before cuz mom would yell at Me dad would yell at me. Whatever. Of course, it's my fault How do you even like explain to someone that no? She's allowed to have emotions and while you might have done something to get those like it's not your fault So to speak so maintain that calm. Can we like build

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 32:53

Yeah Let me let me finish this real quick because that that whole idea of of emotional safety with kids What it does is when we cut when we come down and everyone else comes down that actually triggers the higher Functioning parts of the brain behind the eyes, which is the prefrontal cortex It's responsible for emotion regulation cognitive flexibility social skills Self control and problem solving. Well, that's exactly what you want to do. You want to engage your kid's brains. You want to engage your spouse's brains. I mean, this, this is across, I mean, you can, I talk about it in parenting. I talk about it in, in marriage. Essentially what we want to do is we want to be able to bring everybody to a place where we can actually have emotion regulation. We can think straight, we can problem solve, but that requires, and you said it so beautifully, and I think this is the key, if we could simplify this, is for our wives and our children to be seen, that they feel seen, that they, and this is where 15 minutes a day with your spouse actually helps this process, is because they know you're being, my wife knows I'm being intentional, she knows I'm pursuing her heart, she already knows these things, and so You know, I, what you mentioned, this is, I'm going to go to the, I'm going to answer your question here by going to this whole idea in marriage of, of communication. I think communication is so overrated. And the reason I say that is because it's not communication. That is the issue. What it is. There was a, a study done recently that said that, the, the, the thing the couples argue

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 34:31

you're not It's don't and was make any us I was like. to like

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 34:55

I react. to our

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 35:05

cuz

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 35:09

in

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 35:11

like that

josh_2_12-01-2023_131736-1: 35:18

their heart see you. Let me come alongside you in this journey, and I don't need to fix it, I just want you to know I'm present with you, I'm here beside you, and let's figure this out. And 99. 9 percent of the time, that's all Christy needs and it's all I ever need. I don't need Christy to fix me, she doesn't need me to fix her, we just need to know that we're in it together, and that we're there for one another. And that's gonna, that's gonna, you know, so, so, that's gonna heal 99 percent of your arguments, is just making sure the other person feels seen. And, but I, but as I said, it's easier to talk about this stuff than it is to live it out. And that's why I said, this is a lifelong journey of really choosing to enter into the emotional world and not see emotions as a, as an enemy or as something you need to avoid, but is something that if you embrace, you will find more joy in your life and more connection in your relationships than you ever knew existed.

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 36:19

Yeah, and I think that's really good to see because if you turn that into what you need rather than just looking out Go like well, what do I need? And I think that's what helped me get more comfortable with that. Oh, I have an emotion right now That's okay, because I'm having a reaction to something. So when other people have that emotion Oh, it must just be how they react to it. And I've got a different life experience than they do So it'll be different things Okay. So it might not be my fault, so to speak, but I can be there. And this is really good. I, an example of just this morning, we just got a puppy and everyone's like a little bit, dude, everyone's a little bit on edge. Like we sort of, I was praying and God was like, do you trust me? And he's like, I was like, yeah, he's like, go get a dog. And I was like, No. Like, why would you make me do that? And so we have this puppy now and everyone's been on edge. Everyone's like, it's hard to put the baby down because the puppy's there. And my wife sort of left the house this morning to give me some time in a little bit of a huff. And what I saw was, Hey, I'm also feeling that I'm feeling overwhelmed. I'm feeling heightened in my reactive state. The kids are feeling this way. And so instead of me, I could tell, I was like, Oh, I want to tell her like, don't talk like that. Don't talk to the kids like that. You know better than that. But what I did was, Hey, there's only going to be a few more weeks of this. And I see you're really overwhelmed right now. That's okay. I'm also feeling this way. The kids are also feeling this way. So let's just have a breath together and do our best to stay connected. And it didn't fix anything. She didn't be like, Oh, thank you. But it didn't escalate. And it showed that I was noticing. And I know that she's doing her best. I know that she's trying. So in terms of stories that like literally just happened and it took me being able to see it.

ADS 2: 38:03

Hey guys, Kurt here. Just wanted to take a moment to tell you about our private training community, Dadwork Legacy. If you're a married Christian father, I want to invite you to join us inside of the Dadwork Legacy community. Joining us inside Dadwork Legacy gives you the full Dadwork course library, giving you everything you need to know about family leadership, fatherhood, marriage, communication, emotional mastery, and so much more. But you also get access to a community forum of like minded. Christian fathers. This is a place where you can come to learn everything you need to become the role model for your children, the shield for your wife and children against the degenerate culture. We're doing it all inside of this private community. If you are ready to level up your fatherhood, marriage, and leadership game alongside other good men, join us over at dad. work slash legacy, hit the button to apply, fill out a quick form, and we will get you in the doors. That's dad. work slash. Legacy. Enjoy the rest of the podcast.

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 39:03

Today or sorry yesterday when I was sort of I was in a hard place because things weren't working the way I wanted them to And I went and I talked to my to my mentors And by the end of the day, I was like, wait a second. I just talked to four men Between 50 and 78 years old. I have four men in my life who are willing to do that. I just talked to a number of local friends. I went out for coffee today with a friend. I journaled, I've got guys in my online group. I've got, and I went, Oh, I've done it. God's provided this group of men to surround me too. I mean, cliche, iron sharpens iron. So absolutely fundamental. So you said like all my favorite things, journaling, being surrounded by other men, actually like. Yeah, just just doing all of that on an intentional path to grow And I think if you're listening to this podcast, you probably already understand the growth mindset versus fixed mindset but if you haven't you can get better at this and that's what i'm trying to do here is like Nobody ever told me that I could be a better dad I just saw my dad and I was like, the only thing I learned was if you get tired of your wife, you get another one. And I didn't want to do that. So I guess I just suffer. And so hearing all of this stuff, it's like, guys, there's action steps. There's literal things you can do, but they take discomfort. And then I think about like, well, I had a coach one time and they said, don't strong men do hard things. I was like, yeah. They're like, well, why don't you feel your emotions then? I was like, Oh, don't say that. Like that's too hard, but it was exactly the right thing. Right? So you got to do the hard thing to feel uncomfortable so that when it actually gets uncomfortable, you can be okay with it, man, this is so good. But I love what you said about that primary relationship. I think, and this is just my own journey and I'm sure I've heard this somewhere, I don't know where to give credit, but I think that God, the father is the only one who can ever fill that father sized hole left in your heart from an infant. A father who never showed up. And I know I felt that, I know I was looking elsewhere to fill that father sized hole, like, Oh, does this work? Does this work? And it was always no, but God, the father came in just like overwhelmingly abundantly cup overflowing filled that up. And I hope that if you're listening to this and you don't have that relationship, please seek it. And if you do, remind yourself of the truth, and that's what my journey has been about recently. Is what does God say about me? What does God say He is as a father? And then just like abiding in that. And you're right, man. I'm just like, what do I have to worry about? Like, this is awesome. And of course, I trip all the time. But you're so right. That is like primary to all of this. So thank you for bringing that up.

josh_3_12-01-2023_140249: 42:08

and reading David and King David's, it's kind of like a voyeuristic look into his journal, into his diary, where he's facing, as a leader, literal death by his enemies. And you see him show up. talking about how he drenches his couch all night long in tears. And this is a man who killed a bear with his bare hands, and yet also writes poetry, and talks about his emotions, and known as the man after God's own heart. And so, reading just a psalm or two every morning, as a man, as a father, as a husband, has been one of the most significant game changers for me in terms of my experiencing, a love letter from the father and how he's fighting for me and how he's showing up for me. And so, I just find, again, you gotta find what works for you, but that's, that's a practice that has really stuck with me, and has helped me, as you were saying, Kurt, just experiencing the father and that God shaped hole in our heart that

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 43:15

Yeah, it's so interesting that you said love letter, because that is the, the word that came up with this journal idea that I'm creating right now. It's basically love letters in the margins of a journal from God, because I noticed that I write and I'll forget, I'll be like, I'll be lamenting on my blank journal pages. God, why are you doing this to me? What am I missing? What do I need? It feels like you're not there. But imagine if every page in the margin was just a little love note a little psalm from from the father So anyway, i'm gonna release that in a little bit. I'm figuring that out right now but I have a couple of questions from guys that I work with a couple of last minute questions here and one of them is if let's say, you know, you you've got older kids and i'm just gonna say Let's just, I'm not even gonna say older kids, let's say like 5 to 15 and you haven't been doing this, you've been reactive, you haven't known about emotions, and now your kids show that because your kids are the way you, they are because you're the way you are typically. So let me just read this. My biggest challenge right now is my two older sons, neural pathways are so well worn that the instant they don't feel safe, they dysregulate and go into fight, flight, screaming, rage, damaging brothers or property would like to know strategies for teaching them to feel what's happening in their bodies and be able to off ramp before raging. And he says, these are the same skills that I'm learning as a dad, but I don't know how to do it for their brains being less developed.

josh_3_12-01-2023_140249: 44:40

and his 14 year old daughter had come home from school and she wanted to go to a Friday night football game And her dad said No, and she looked at her dad and she said dad I hate you and she went storming to her bedroom and now you can imagine as a dad you know the reaction the amygdala the the the The fight, fight or freeze response that we would have to that, you know, I want to describe emotional safety here because the posture of emotional safety is not punishing the negative emotions. You have to realize that when your kids are reacting the way that they are, there's something going on within their inner world. That is, that is happening that they might not even know how to put language to. And so, you know, the negative emotion might be looking at her and saying, don't you ever speak to me that way again. You go to your room, I'm taking your phone for a month, and no, you're not going to that Friday night football game. Do you understand me? And so often what ends up happening is, is we punish the negative emotion and it builds a wall between our heart and our child's heart. so the other way that we do this is to dismiss the negative emotion. Dismissing a negative emotion would be saying something to the effect of, don't be mad at me. Or minimizing it would be saying, it's just a Friday night football game, who cares? But the posture of emotional safety is our ability as a father to enter into our child's world and to say, honey, what is it about that Friday night football game that matters to you so much? And in this instance, this girl had been rejected by a group of friends that she hung out with in the. And this was the first Friday night they invited her to be a part of something, and her dad said no. so, know, here she is seeing them posting pictures on Instagram and Snapchat, they're hanging out without her, now they're inviting her into something. And her overreaction wasn't because she hated her dad, it was because she wanted so badly to be accepted by these friends at school. And he, you know, as dads, we could even be jumping in and going, well, what if they reject you there? And they don't, they aren't really true friends. And we can jump into advice giving and we can jump into, you know, well, my experience with this, but they're, they're not listening to that because they're not feeling seen. Remember it comes back to. And so helping your kids feel seen by saying what really is going on with X, Y, or Z, whatever that situation is. In this case, it was a Friday night football game. Tell me more about that. And I say to dads, you know, your three greatest words, really in a situation like this are tell me more. Tell me more. And, and it allows our children to feel seen as they reveal what is going on in their inner world. And then once they feel seen. Then we have the all the clout in the world because to enter in and start giving it, you know, maybe you're not giving advice right away, but at least guiding decision making and coming together and problem solving because now our brains are all at a place where we can actually they're calm, you know, and we can communicate in a healthy manner. And so I think just that posture of emotional safety of saying what is it about this? It's important. Tell me more.

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 47:52

And so let's I just, I know a little bit about this situation. So imagine, let's say, you know, eight and 10 year old boys really hyper reactive because of dad's former way of dealing, which would be yelling and anger and overwhelm, and they just like really quickly go to anger and fighting and it's almost making the, the home. Run from the children's perspective because they're so disruptive. This was kind of my story. So I resonate a lot with this but in those moments where like some kid does something wrong The other one goes what are you doing that for and there's fighting and stuff like that What what are you recommending to get there to have that conversation to say? you know tell me more when they're just like super elevated. Do you have any suggestions on that?

josh_3_12-01-2023_140249: 48:34

they're super elevated, the elevation has to come down. And so you've got to be able to bring it down in some level in order for there to be any conversation or helpful conversation had in that moment. And so, you know, there's there's a couple different ways that you can do this. And one of those ways https: otter. ai Ahead of time and being proactive, it's similar to 15 minutes going, okay, the next time this happens, when you feel like you have been, you know, you got a toy taken from you and that just ticked you off because your brother took a toy and you lost it. Next time your brother takes a toy, what would be another way? What do you need the next time your brother takes a toy? What do you need in order to be able to not react in anger, but to take a moment and calm down? Are you feel the anger boiling up? What? What is your go to? Do you need a punching bag to go punch? Do you need to just get outside and go for a run? What do you need to rechannel your anger and for that dad to be open about guys? I'm really sorry because I wasn't a great model for you for this. I. I reacted this way for so long and I'm learning and, and I really want to help you guys learn a new way as I'm learning a new way. I want to help you guys learn a new way to channel your anger. And so here's mine, right? And so it's almost like, Hey, I'm going to be vulnerable enough. Now, obviously you're not putting your, you know, your emotional overwhelm on your kids or your. Burden, you don't want to burden your kids with your journey, but at the same time, you're teaching your kids about your journey so that they realize, Oh, dad's dad's on this journey too. And now we're coming up with ways when we're not in the overwhelm, because when everyone's overwhelmed, it's nothing positive is happening in that moment. There's nothing good being accomplished. And so to be proactive with it, to. To look back on when it did happen and say what would be a way? How do you need to be seen here? What is it that you care about and what is it that you need to be seen from your brother next time? And then, you know, have them learn how to communicate about it. Well, you know, I feel like he doesn't care about my toys. Well, okay. So, you know, and now you're, now you're, you know. role playing you can even role playing is huge for this like so not only are we talking about it now We're also going to role play if this happens next time Let's role play it out So that what would be a healthier more helpful option for you to feel seen for your brother to feel seen and for you guys to come down and and and have a newer way to navigate your anger and over in the moment

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 51:06

Yeah that's really good. And I can throw my personal way behind that. Cause that's what we had to do. There's a lot of that kind of stuff. And is it ever too late to reconnect?

josh_3_12-01-2023_140249: 51:17

mean, you

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 51:18

Let yeah. Yeah,

josh_3_12-01-2023_140249: 51:25

60, 70, 80 year olds. I just can't even begin to describe that.

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 51:32

that's exactly what I was hoping you'd say, because I get this man. Like when you're in it. The, the, the redemption arc that I had a guy in my podcast, Rory recently. And he said, you know what he said? I don't know, but maybe your redemption, maybe God's redemption story for your life is going to be more impactful on your future generations than if you had been good this whole time. And I was like, Oh man, that is so good. And that same thing I see my mom, I see like all, all these things, all these people in my family going through. So if you're in that moment where you're just like, Oh, I don't know what to do. This is never working. It's not too late. It's never going to be too late. And if you've got time for one last one. All right. All right. First, I thought you were just like, nope, never got in time for another question. See ya. anyway, I've got another question from a man who's had a hard time connecting with his wife. He's trying to communicate, but it comes off, almost, a formulaic and not really on the connection level, not the, not the next level of seeing. And she's almost. Withdrawn so much that she has no more interest in listening. Is there a way, or have you seen ways, for men to rebuild emotional safety with a wife who seems to be kind of checked out?

josh_3_12-01-2023_140249: 52:50

see this a lot, I see it a lot where a man finally is coming back to, for the first time in his life, he's coming into a place of seeing his emotions, feeling his emotions, and his wife has just been, you know, at him for years to see her. And he just didn't and now all of a sudden she's checked and and it's a hard place to be because you have to I think the first place you have to realize is is your emotional awakening if you will as a man cannot expect our wives to respond immediately and get angry immediately to all of the years of of of our own neglect, our emotional neglect in a way, and I don't, I hate to say it as neglect. I mean, in some cases it might be neglect, but where our wives feel neglected, they, they legit feel neglected. so we can't expect them to just all of a sudden, you know, for an, I'm sorry to right the ship after years of, of brokenness, especially from her end and the perceived. And so I think that's a key one. I think another thing is to give her time to say, Hey, listen, I want to pursue you. I'm sorry. It starts with repentance. It always starts with repentance. I'm sorry. And I want to make this right. And if there's ever a part of this journey that you can help me make it right, please tell me what's working and what's not working you. You know, how do you feel seen? I want to know. I want to learn. I want to, I want to learn how, how I can help you feel seen. And so. You know, our friend, our mentor, Jeremy Pryor, I remember him saying one time with his wife April, he said, I want to get a Ph. D. in April. I want to get a Ph. D. in, you know, and I'm like, I tell men, like, that's such a great phrase, to get a Ph. D. in your wife, so that you can really know her, know her heart, and really enter into there. So I think that's the first one, is expectation, is to really Pay attention to your expectation because that's just gonna build a bigger wedge in and it can feel formulaic. That's often what happens. And so I tell guys a lot, you know, to really do your best to find what really helps her feel seen. And then Baby steps take small steps toward helping her feel seen so that it doesn't feel formal like the 15 minutes a day doesn't but simply just sitting down, you know It you know, random time spontaneously. Hey, you know, tell me tell me when you a positive emotion You had today when did you feel brave? Did you feel sighted? Did you feel I just want to you know here? And and if she doesn't like that, then don't try it again, you know, but just try it say, you know, let's just see you know To me, this really comes into play when you can know your wife's love languages, when you can know what your wife, how she feels seen, and just ask her and communicate about it. Remember, made a communication is the big deal. Made a communication. And it may get to a place too where you want to sign up for a marriage intensive or a group marriage intensive or that type of thing and say, Hey, I really want to pursue this. I know that I neglected this for years and you probably were crying for it or screaming for it or asking me for it for years and I didn't follow through and I'm really sorry. So if you don't want to do this right now, I understand that and I understand it'll take time. And so let me know when you're ready because I'm going to be ready because I want to pursue your heart. And sometimes that wives just have to grieve that hope those years that they feel like they lost before they're ready to move forward. And so I, I would just say tread cautiously, as you pursue her heart, but do so in a way that helps her feel seen and, and focus on meta communication, communication about how you're communicating so wrong and you're not even realizing it. You think you're actually being sincere when you're being sincerely wrong and how you're communicating.

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 56:41

That's really good. Thank you very much for that. And thanks for being here. I'm curious if, before we get to where people can find you, is there anything that you think from this conversation, and again, I apologize for my sort of verbosity on this subject, because it's so big in my life and I wanted To get so much of your brain and your wisdom that I appreciate you rolling with me. Is there anything from this conversation that you think would be a good next step that we haven't got to? And if not, please just let us know where we can get more of Josh and Famous at Home Amazing, man. I'm really glad that you guys do all of that because, I'm always looking for places to send guys. And now that I know this works with like, what worked for me with the Bible, I'm like, just go to, just go to Josh. It's going to be fine. All right, man. Thank you very much.

josh_3_12-01-2023_140249: 58:33

and spiritual growth with your home, you can check that out as well.

curt_1_12-01-2023_111508: 58:37

That sounds awesome. Okay, man. Thank you so much for this. I appreciate it.