Natey & Katy: At the Movies
Natey & Katy are two friends who love movies and love talking about them. Join them on their cinematic journey!
Natey & Katy: At the Movies
Unforgettable Performances and Comic Book Revivals
What makes a film truly unforgettable? Join us as we explore David Lynch's masterful 1980 film "The Elephant Man," starring Anthony Hopkins and John Hurt, through our personal lenses. From Katy's hilarious camp skit to my deep admiration for the film's black-and-white aesthetic and powerful performances, we unpack the emotional and historical layers of Joseph Merrick's story. Hear our candid reactions as we grapple with the film's intense sadness, its commentary on societal cruelty, and the remarkable evolution of Anthony Hopkins' character.
But our conversation doesn't stop there! Get ready for a whirlwind of topics, from a passionate debate about Bradley Cooper's Broadway portrayal of Joseph Merrick to a lighthearted chat about our excitement for "Monty Python and the Holy Grail." And stay tuned for the bombshell news from San Diego Comic-Con: Robert Downey Jr.'s surprising return to the Marvel Cinematic Universe as Dr. Doom! Trust us, you won't want to miss our take on this unexpected casting choice and what it might mean for future Marvel storylines.
Hello everyone and welcome to a brand new episode of Nadie and Katie at the Movies. I'm your host, nathan aka Nadie, of course, and with me on today's episode is my good friend Katie. Hi Katie, how are you?
Speaker 2:I am doing very well, but I'm pretty tired. The camp that Nathan and I met doing the Great Escape with Youth Conference Ministries was here. There's like a new camp near my house, so popped over there and I got to do skits, which I really miss doing with Nathan, but I got to be a villain. Can you picture that, nathan? I got to be a villain in a skit.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, you're pretty mean most of the time, so kind of makes sense.
Speaker 2:Harness my personality.
Speaker 1:And speaking of people that might mistake someone as a villain just because of you know, maybe their physicality or things like that, let's, let's talk about the.
Speaker 2:Uh, let's talk about the movie we're gonna be. Did you just relate my face to the face of this character? Okay, no, I was trying Anyway. Wow, I'm personally offended, you know, but however, that's okay. This movie is going to. Really, I'll be interested to hear what your thoughts are. The movie is the elephant man, which has nothing to do with elephants.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, they kind of try to tie it to elephants a little bit. But we'll talk about that, I'm sure. But before we can talk about it we have to go over the synopsis. A victorian surgeon rescues a heavily disfigured man who is mistreated while scraping a living as a sideshow freak. Behind his monstrous facade there is revealed a person of kindness, intelligence and sophistication. The elephant man stars anthony hopkins, john hurt and bancroft and john gilgood. So john hurt was actually in another movie. We just reviewed V for Vendetta. He played the villain in that movie and so in this one he plays kind of the good guy. So again, this is the Elephant man, 1980, based on the real life of Joseph Merrick, even though in the movie he is called John Merrick. I don't know why they made that decision, but let's just get right into it. Katie, had you ever heard of the story of Joseph Merrick?
Speaker 2:I've never heard the name Joseph Merrick, nor had I heard anything about the movie Elephant man, but I after you, but after understanding there's a person that's face was severely disfigured and I guess we would call it has elephantitis is the phrase. I don't know if that phrase came from around that time, but yes, I've heard of the man who had a severely deformed face with these giant growths and of course there have been, unfortunately, people who have suffered from that since then. It's like I was somewhat familiar with the fact this can happen to someone that did not know. There was a long, sad, depressing black and white movie about it in the eighties. Like, I'll go ahead and say that's not a positive or negative, but the movie was done in such a way that I would have assumed this was done in the 60s or something and then realized later that was in the 80s and I guess that was just a stylistic choice yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:It was an interesting choice to do that way. I don't know if it was done for like a symbolism kind of thing, like the world was dark and all around him and everyone was just looking out for their own interests, trying to make money off of this guy, and so it was hard for him to see the light and colorfulness of the world. I don't know. But I'm just going to go ahead and say I actually thoroughly enjoyed the film. I thought the acting again was very good. I thought anthony hopkins did a great job. John hurt did a great job again. It's one of those movies and I love that.
Speaker 1:I'm able to say this with almost every movie we've talked about. There was no weak acting in this movie. Everyone did a fantastic job playing their characters, making you feel for this character. I was kind of worried at first because you can't really understand what he's saying, so I didn't know how I was going to be able to take that. I didn't know if I was going to be able to take it seriously. I didn't know what the voice was going to be like the entire film. But the more you watch it, the more you get used to that and so, yeah, I thought it was a great film acting wise. What did you think?
Speaker 2:I agree that the acting was incredible and I also had the same fear as you the beginning of the movie. Don't want to spoil too much, but the character John Merrick doesn't speak and you kind of aren't sure if he's all there. You know he obviously is severely physically deformed but you're not quite sure if he's mentally deformed in any way or has disability. But then he eventually speaks and you know he learns how to speak and it gets more clear.
Speaker 2:When I was researching you know of course, a truth based on a true story, I did a, I did find it very interesting, like I wanted to learn more about the real person because it was a very intense story, um, and apparently, as would be expected, he was not that articulate, obviously in real life, which of course, thank you hollywood. I don't want to listen to a person I can't understand. If I'm watching a movie, um, I like the acting a lot but unfortunately I just it's not my type of movie. It's it's so sad, like the acting is very good and it really did make me sad and depressed, which I think it was supposed to do.
Speaker 1:I'll give it that I just thought it was interesting to, because I had heard of this story before, I had heard of this movie. When I saw that we were watching it I was like okay, I'd never seen it before, which again is why I like what we're doing this season with all of these movies that I would think that I would have seen before because I had heard of them. But then watching it, I'm like, wow, I really had never seen this. So it's again, it's a hidden gem. Most people probably know about it.
Speaker 1:I I thought it was very good. I mean, I I'm more open to drama and sad stories as long as the story is compelling. And I think this story was compelling, and because of the acting, because of just the rawness of what was going on in this character's life, because I actually did research too after watching it. Because it is an interesting story because you know, apparently he was, he wasn't always like that he he actually had a pretty normal childhood and then all of a sudden this just happened to him. So there's no real explanation in the movie. They kind of try to explain it with using an elephant as the explanation, but doing research that had nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2:So I guess that was kind of a Apparently. That was a common thing. This is something I was looking at. That was a medical information. Back then it was not the same as now, but they thought that basically if something traumatizing happened to the mother during pregnancy then it could cause stuff like that, which is like guess what. They were trying to depict that like she had something traumatizing happening that made it that way.
Speaker 1:I mean, from all the research I found, there was never really any explanation. Well, yeah, not a real one?
Speaker 2:That's just folklore, Right?
Speaker 2:right but yeah, the story really is a great one. Like we talk about ones that are based on true stories. Sometimes they're ones I didn't care about. This is in the category of a true story I think needs to be told, but it also goes in the category of one I don't want to watch again. It's not a feel good.
Speaker 2:The basic premise I think you're supposed to take away with is understanding how cruel humanity can be and also how beautiful it can be to care for someone and love someone and treat them like with human decency. I think unfortunately, even still in our world today, not everyone's treated with that same respect. But I also don't know if it. It was sad, but I don't think it hit me as strongly, maybe because we've had so many movies like it since like this is almost like an overused trope now of like the person that is discounted and not treated fairly and bullied, and then someone's nice to them and you know so it's a bit overdone to me now feels almost over the top in some ways because they're so, so mean to him, and I just don't feel like in society today, in like 2024. One of the small positives about us being more sensitive as a culture is I really don't think this would happen in 2024, like I don't think people would be as evil as they were when this movie's happening well.
Speaker 1:Well and especially I don't know if you've seen the trailer. I can't remember what the name of the movie is, but there's a movie coming out soon with, I think it's, sebastian Stane, who played the winter soldier, and it's about a guy who has this deformity and he basically goes under plastic surgery and gets, you know know, his face redone, coming out as sebastian stan, and then he meets this other guy who has the same deformity and it's a real life guy, a real actor, who has this actual deformity and it's basically acting like people are, are more accepting of him than they are of Sebastian Stane, and so it's a really interesting sounding film. I kind of want to see it and again, I apologize for not knowing the title, but it kind of goes to what you're saying disdain nowadays, or would they try to prop that person up and give them, you know, a position and and accolades for being who they are and and being successful, despite the things that are going on, and so to to that extent, yes, especially since this is actually happening in real life with that actor that I mentioned. But again, going back to what you said about all these other films doing that kind of storyline, the majority of those are fictitious, and so the fact that this is a real life situation for all we know during that time period because I want to say this, the 1800s or something like this was a long, long, long time ago.
Speaker 1:It wasn't like the 1900s or something. And again, if I'm'm wrong then please correct me, but I'm pretty sure this occurred like way, way, way, way, way, way back in the day, and so I I would think people would be that cruel to someone like that. I mean, you have people like they made the greatest showman, pt barnum. He was not the nicest guy. He tried to exploit those types of people, those you know what people would call them freaks. He, he used, he basically used them and tried to exploit them. So I can see people in that time treating someone like that the way they did. And then fast fast forward to today we have a movie featuring someone who has that kind of deformity, and so obviously we've come a long way.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, I think it's also interesting speaking to taking ownership of it, like there's a kind of moment where you think, okay, well, this guy wouldn't have probably succeeded well in society, so maybe this was in some small ways a kindness, like at least he's making some profit, able to eat somehow. He wouldn't have been able to get a job. Um, and I even see that I have a few friends that have disabilities and they help raise awareness of what they call ableism, you know, helping us that don't have disabilities their world. But I also do see some people not abuse it, but they definitely take ownership of it, like they have gotten popularity, they have gotten famous, they have gotten followers because of having that disability. But back to the movie specifically. Yeah, the acting was great, tugs on your Heart, strings Like Crazy.
Speaker 2:I loved getting to watch Anthony Hopkins' character who's playing the doctor, kind of realize that he's not some savior. You know this is not like the savior complex, he's not. John Merrick was a kind, good man on his own and he just needed someone to see the light. But it's not like this doctor fixed everything. Yeah, and also he felt at one point he's like am I guilty of? Like? Why was he interested in the first place. He was kind of interested from a medical standpoint of wow, look at this medical anomaly.
Speaker 1:So him kind of realizing that about himself I think was powerful yeah, the only negative I have about this film is why was there a back door to his hospital room? Like you watch this movie and you know he ends up living in this hospital room Joseph Merrick does and there's a back door that these really shady people can just come in and out of his hospital room and do like bring people in, have them pay money to go see him. What kind of hospital has? Has has like no security whatsoever and apparent, and it ends up being someone who spoiler alert works at the hospital. Who's doing this.
Speaker 1:So that was my only hang. That that was the only thing I was like. I mean I don't know if that happened in real life or if that was my only thing. That was the only thing I was like. I mean I don't know if that happened in real life or if that was just Hollywood. I thought that was kind of kind of weird that that was able to happen so often. But I mean that was the only negative part. I thought it was a great film. I enjoyed it. I think some people would consider a classic film because of the acting, the actors that are in it and just the story it tells. I just think it was I thought. I thought it was great yeah, you know it's I'm.
Speaker 2:I love comedy, so this is not, you know, far cry from that, and it was just very depressing. I I don't know if it's a negative, but it was just almost so over the top Mean people being so mean to him that I had a literal visceral like reaction, like I had a hard time watching this and which, again, maybe that means it's a good movie, it's giving me that emotion, but it's again, I don't think that I I felt like I had to force myself to sit through and watch. Interesting other thing I didn't do a deep dive on this, but apparently this has been done several times on Broadway, including by who would have guessed Bradley Cooper, which I mean, I guess in the Broadway they're not going to do all the stuff like the makeup and all this stuff, prosthetics, uh, he just kind of like walked weird and like put his lips weird, but I saw all these clips of him like being john merrick and he said something about that being like the movie that launched his career and I was like I would have never guessed I.
Speaker 1:I wish I could find more clips of bradley cooper playing that character well, and I also know there was some controversy when, I believe, the bbc was going to do like a mini series and they were going to hire. I don't know the actor's name again, sorry, but he's in stranger things he plays, uh, the older he's a good looking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know you're talking about yeah, and so there's a good looking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know you're talking about yeah, and so there's a good looking guy. Well, yeah, and there was controversy that they weren't trying to hire someone with that disability or someone close to that instead of hiring this guy. Kind of like, when I didn't know, bradley Cooper played this character. So I'm surprised that that didn't get a lot of controversy because Bradley Cooper is a good looking guy too. Surprised that that didn't get a lot of controversy because Bradley Cooper is a good looking guy too, and and so it it does.
Speaker 1:You know, nowadays there there are those people that are like, why don't you just cast a person with that disability like this actor in the movie with Sebastian Stan? What? What I mean? Nowadays they might try to hire somebody like him to play this character, but also the people with those disabilities don't necessarily want to be typecast as those types of characters too. So it's kind of like a balance of you don't want to offend those actors by casting him as just those characters, but at the same time, if you don't cast those people as those characters, people get offended.
Speaker 2:So well, we, we won't go down that rabbit trail, but we could all be offended by things um and again. The key takeaway to me is understanding that, treating people as a human. But my biggest negative would be I almost felt like the takeaway of how horrible people can be was stronger, because I do feel like I already was born understanding we needed to treat people kindly, no matter what. I think our society has come a long way, so for me it was more just watching, going in a time machine and saying, wow, people have been very, very cool across time. And yeah, you're right, it was in the 1800s, so this was like just post-Civil War era and we don't like what we don't understand and what we don't know.
Speaker 1:And with that, let's go ahead and rate this thing. So what are we going to give the elephant man from our rating review system?
Speaker 2:Well, I think you know, we all know, what the elephant in the room is. I just, I just. I didn't care for this. I didn't care for this movie that much, but it was good. So once again, I have to give it that safe like 4.5. Unlike the one we just watched, what was before this, this is one I actually would say yes, you should watch this, and I think that gives it a little higher rating. I think people should and would benefit from watching.
Speaker 1:Yeah'm gonna give it probably a five. I'm gonna give it a strong five because the performances are great and but, like you said, it is a movie that I'm like. I don't think I'll watch it again because it is very depressing, it is very sad, but it's a true story. So I do think it's one of those films like, also, like you said, that people should watch and see how people live and how far we've come and how we treat each other. Yeah, learn, learn from cinema, learn from cinema. So that is the Elephant man and what we're going to be talking about. The first episode of August which I can't believe it's already August is this little ditty. Take a listen Between our quest, we seek to invest in a person. A clock able is a busy life in Camelot.
Speaker 2:I have to push the Primalot On second thoughts. Let's not go to Camelot, it is a silly place.
Speaker 1:Finally going back to some comedy, I'm so excited. It feels like it's been a while. We're going to be watching Monty Python and the Holy Grail, katie have you ever seen this movie before?
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, yes, it's British humor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. I don't like British humor.
Speaker 2:I've seen bits and pieces. I've never seen the whole thing, so I'm excited.
Speaker 1:Well, and before we end this episode, I'm totally going off script, even though we never have a script on this stuff. Anyway, I just want to ask just really quick Did you hear the big news at San Diego Comic-Con about who's coming back to the Marvel Cinematic Universe?
Speaker 2:I was not at Comic-Con, I did not hear it.
Speaker 1:No, Well, well, I wasn't there either, but it's like all over social media. Robert downey jr is coming back to the marvel cinematic universe, but he's not playing iron man, he's playing dr doom, the big bad from fantastic four, and it's going to be the big bad from fantastic four and it's going to be the big bad in the last two Avengers movies in the multiverse saga. A lot of mixed reviews about this decision. I'm excited. I love Robert Downey jr and I'm not a comic book fan, so I did do my research. But if they do the story in the comics, it'll make sense. But I just wanted to see if you heard about it and you didn't. So now I feel like that was just a big waste of time.
Speaker 2:No, but I do have my. I would like to do my best. Impression of the elephant man.
Speaker 1:I'm not an elephant, I'm not an animal, I'm a human being.
