Unlocking Podcast Monetization and Engagement: Insights and Success Stories

Unlock the secrets to successful podcast monetization and audience engagement with insights from Traci DeForge, a trailblazer in the podcasting industry with a stellar background in broadcast radio and executive management. Traci's journey from managing radio stations to founding Produce Your Podcast, a top-tier consulting and production agency, offers invaluable lessons for anyone interested in leveraging podcasting for business growth. Learn how her extensive experience with Fortune 500 companies shapes her effective digital marketing strategies and discover her deep-seated passion for audio storytelling.

Curious about how to monetize your podcast, even if you have a small audience? Traci reveals the critical mindset shifts and practical steps needed to start earning from your content. Through compelling case studies, including a divorce attorney who draws 60% of her clients from her podcast despite fewer than 500 downloads per episode, we discuss how quality audio and video can significantly boost your marketing efforts. Traci also shares strategies for seamlessly incorporating ads and sponsorships, ensuring you don't alienate your devoted listeners.

You'll be inspired by real-life success stories that prove the potential of podcast sponsorships, regardless of your audience size. Traci recounts how smaller podcasts can secure substantial sponsorship deals by emphasizing audience engagement and value. From a PR Maven's $3,000 sponsorship triumph to an NHL-themed podcast's $20,000 pre-launch success, these stories illustrate the power of leveraging your unique value and connections. Traci wraps up with her reflections on overcoming perfectionism and her dreams for future projects, all while encouraging new podcasters to keep pushing forward. Tune in for a blend of strategic insights, motivational stories, and practical advice that promises to elevate your podcasting journey.

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Transcript

Krystal Proffitt: 0:00

I know I say this all the time, but I get so excited when I find other people that are just as nerdy about podcasting and marketing as I am, because it makes me feel like I'm not so extra. Can we just call it that? Maybe that's how you are you feel super passionate about the message that you're sharing and you're like I just don't know that other people get how much I love this. Well, today's guest is on the same level with me as like just loving podcasting, loving content creation, loving talking about strategy and marketing and building a business, and I am just so delighted to have Traci DeForge today on the episode because we had so much fun. So Traci is someone who is very unique in that we have not had anyone like her on the podcast before. I know, with over 450 episodes that we've recorded, that's pretty shocking right that we can still find people that have an expertise or a very unique strategy that they're using for their podcast. That is exactly what Traci is bringing to the conversation today Because, with over three decades of experience in broadcast media, executive management and Fortune 500 business consulting, T raci is the founder of Produce your Podcast, a premier podcast consulting and production agency that incorporates podcasting into the digital marketing strategy of B2B and B2C companies, with a diverse career spanning startups to Fortune 500 giants like Google and Hilton. She's renowned for business development insights that drive innovation, and I had the pleasure of just exploring her whole journey and you're going to hear it unfold in today's episode, but having a background that really incorporates radio and behind the scenes of ad spend and what that looks like, not only for you as a creator, but also for what are these companies looking for? What are these bigger companies that you want to collaborate with or partner with or be an affiliate for, whatever that relationship looks like. And so I was so excited to really explore this talk. I just feel like I'm like and we said it multiple times, tracy, you're going to come back. You're going to come back because there's seven more hours of content that we could create together, so I will not make you wait any longer.

Krystal Proffitt: 2:38

Here's my conversation with Traci. Welcome to the Profit Podcast, where we teach you how to start, launch and market your content with confidence. I'm your host, crystal Profit, and I'm so excited that you're here. Thanks for hanging out with me today, because if you've been trying to figure out the world of content creation. This is the show that will help be your time-saving shortcut. So let's get right to it, shall we shortcut? So let's get right to it, shall we All right Profit Podcast listeners. We have a special guest today, so welcome to the show, traci. How are you today?

Traci DeForge: 3:19

I am so great, K crystal Thank you so much for having me on and I get to talk about my most favorite thing, which is podcasting, to a podcasting audience and a person who loves podcasting as much as me, so what could be better?

Krystal Proffitt: 3:26

I mean, isn't it so much fun? I have the exact same reaction whenever I know someone is just as passionate and nerdy and geeky and loves all things about podcasting and content creation, but also is someone that's been in the industry for a while Like I think that this is the big thing. So tell the audience a little bit about your own podcasting journey and how long you've been in the business.

Traci DeForge: 3:52

Oh well, thank you, I know. Recently someone called me a pioneer in the podcasting industry and I was like, no, that's just you saying that I'm old. But no, I'm not old, I just. But I have been doing this for a long time.

Traci DeForge: 4:03

But the precursor for podcasting for me was broadcast radio and I spent the majority of my career in broadcast radio, primarily on the media management side. I actually, before I left to start my own business, I was running the operations of 12 radio stations in the Atlanta Metro, which involved all formats, some sports News, talk, country, pop Rock. We produced the University of Georgia Sports Network and I just have, even before that, just had a massive love for the audio medium platform. I often share the story that I used to sleep with the radio under my pillow and it was audio storytelling even then, because it was ghost stories on an AM radio station and I just fell in love with radio, calling in, making requests, like all the things, and I was so grateful when I got the opportunity to go to work in broadcast radio right out of college and that was such a great catalyst for me professionally in so many areas. It led to me ultimately starting my own business and I did a lot of business development strategy with startups, entrepreneurs and, ultimately, fortune 500 companies, and I share that.

Traci DeForge: 5:13

To say that when I decided to start my first podcast, I was in the process of working with Weight Watchers International on a project around their in-person meeting model, and it just gave me this like a. It was an amazing experience to work with them. But what also was amazing is just like it really triggered my idea for my very first podcast, which was Journey to there Exploring the Intersection Between Personal and Business Growth. And when I decided to start my first podcast, you have to understand I knew a little too much about what it was going to take to produce a broadcast quality radio show as a podcast. So I pulled a team together and launched my first podcast and then, right after that and this was in 2015, in 2016, right after that, I launched Producer Podcast, which is my company that I run. Today we're nine years in and we're a full-service podcast production marketing agency and we focus on business development strategy for our podcasters. So all of that to say it all came full circle.

Krystal Proffitt: 6:17

Oh, I love this so much because I think that you may be one of the first guests that we've had. We've had audio engineers that previously were like music producers, then they found their way into podcasting, but you may be like the first true radio person that has stepped into it. It's almost like you've leaped into this other medium, having a background in audio. And so, with that being said, um, you know cause you said you know you wanted to produce a high quality podcast.

Krystal Proffitt: 6:47

There's so many people listening that are like oh no, this is not me. Like they just kind of went up like oh, tracy is a pro, like she is a professional, like she's next level already, and maybe they've like have this imposter syndrome that already started. And I'm just curious, if you run into that a lot, when people find out that you have a background in radio or that you have this longstanding career of working with these amazing brands, I wanna know where is the imposter syndrome? In your own journey, did you have any moments where you're like what the heck am I doing? Like what's going on here? Like wait, wait, hang on, hang on?

Traci DeForge: 7:27

Oh my gosh. Well, that's such a fun question and thank you for asking that. You know, I think for me, I think, first of all, I think, as a female entrepreneur, and then also starting and doing cutting edge and innovative things in an industry that wasn't quite ready for it at the time, then I definitely feel like I don't know, I mean imposter syndrome. Have I had it? Do I continue to have it? Absolutely, I mean. It's even funny because I do all the strategy sessions for our clients.

Traci DeForge: 7:56

So when you come through Producer Podcast, if you don't have an existing podcast, we build it with you from the ground up and we do the strategy in two ways business development focused and format and radio.

Traci DeForge: 8:08

I mean not radio show focused, but podcast format focused, along with business development strategy. All that to be said, every single time I show up for a discovery call, even today, after I've been doing this for so long, I'll be like this is going to be the one, this is going to be the one that I'm not going to be able to make it happen. This is going to be the one where I'm not going to be able to build the show or give the aha or have the light bulb come on and at the end of every one of my discovery we call them discovery sessions, but they're essentially podcast launch strategy sessions I ask for our clients to provide a takeaway from that particular session and so many times it's really almost more for me than it is for them, like I love hearing them say back what their takeaway is, but it also like I can exhale at that point.

Traci DeForge: 8:52

It's like okay they had a takeaway, I provided it for them. We're good. I can keep going one more day. So I think to say you don't have imposter syndrome would be like you lack self-honesty, but I think, in terms of where that parlayed into launching Produce your Podcast was, I'm an entrepreneur, so I'm a visionary and because of my history in broadcast radio as a medium and as a business and all the intricacies of running 12 radio stations at the time at my highest point in my professional career, I just knew what was coming for podcasting.

Traci DeForge: 9:25

I just knew what was coming for podcasting and I especially knew what was coming for podcasting for business owners, because I had the ability, with the knowledge and the expertise, to know that where we are now is where we were going to be and we haven't even gotten started yet. My challenge was I was ahead of the curve, perceptually, so I was having conversations with people who were giving me dare in the head like, look like, and I'm talking about major broadcast companies at this time back in 2015 and 2016. And so it was so frustrating for me because I was like you know, I was talking about monetizing podcasts and business development tools, integration into podcasting, before people really even understood how to bridge that gap, and so I feel like now I feel validated, but at the same time, I'm like we could have been doing this 10 years ago.

Krystal Proffitt: 11:59

Well, I think what's so interesting, like when you're talking about doing things in 2015 and 2016,. I started in 2018 and I look at all the tools of 2024 and I'm so jealous, there's no other word to say it. I look at the repurposing, the beautiful, like we can record in high definition and we have video and we have audio and it sounds amazing and with the click of a button you can do this Y'all. None of that was around.

Traci DeForge: 12:29

None of it was around in 2018.

Krystal Proffitt: 12:31

Like Skype may have worked whenever you tried to like you had to like hope and a prayer that things were going to happen and you would actually have audio files when you were done, recording Like that's how we were bootstrapping it back in the day. Was there something from the beginning of your journey like that that you're just like, oh my gosh.

Traci DeForge: 12:52

So fun that you bring that up, because we were actually one of the first podcast production companies to do remote engineering. Before remote engineering was a thing. So we are so blessed right now because we're on Riverside right now. It's like you said, it's a click of the button.

Traci DeForge: 13:08

But when we, when we produced my own show which was the you know, obviously the first one we honed a technology out of the UK and our engineer was because it's somebody that I had worked with in radio since the 90s, like so it's somebody I had a very long-term relationship with. We had done a lot of production work together over the years, and he honed a technology and licensed a technology out of the UK that was designed initially for radio broadcasters but it gave us the technology and the platform to record our hosts and their guests virtually right out of the gate. So when we launched, when I very first recorded my first interview with Journey to there, my co-host was in Fort Lauderdale, I was in Georgia and our first guest was. I actually have to remember who that first guest was, but anyway, this was. They were somewhere else in the US and so we actually were very innovative in being able to do that out of the gate.

Traci DeForge: 14:11

Then, when the pandemic occurred, that was so helpful for us because we had already been doing it for several years, offering this remote engineering, because all of our clients, for the most part they, will take advantage of recording with a live engineer in the studio with them. But that was virtually unheard of because the technology didn't exist at that time. But we basically re-engineered other technology that was made for radio into podcasting and that was a really big leap for us to do that.

Krystal Proffitt: 14:44

Yeah, I mean and I love you already said this word earlier is like the innovative approaches to doing it. Because, like you are, I mean just hearing you say that I'm like, oh my gosh, I wish that we would have been friends back then, cause I'd have been like Traci, I don't know what the heck I'm doing, but this is broken, it's not working. And then you know, as more and more of these companies have come online, it's just been so fascinating to watch In real time the whole industry evolved. But, T tracy, I know that you are so passionate about monetization and specifically helping creators podcasters really get paid for the content that they're creating. So is there something specifically that you've seen in the last six months or maybe the last 12 months that you're like, oh my gosh, like this is so innovative. It's such a cool way for people to monetize their content, whether they're a beginner podcaster or maybe a more seasoned one.

Traci DeForge: 15:41

Yeah, great question. So one of the things that I think you know, in building that bridge between the advances in technology and where we are with opportunities for monetization, I think the hosting platforms have really stepped into a powerful in a powerful way into the space and being able to have not only take advantage of dynamic ad insertion, program, programmatic ads and things like that, only take advantage of dynamic ad insertion, programmatic ads and things like that, and those work really well for podcasts that have large audiences, like, in some cases, 10,000 downloads a month or 10,000 downloads an episode, which wouldn't we all aspire to, want to be in that level consistently. But what we found is that there's some really specific and low-hanging fruit ways to monetize a podcast for a smaller audience, especially if your podcast is focused on growing your business. So if you are a business owner, if you're a coach, if you're a consultant, if you offer product and service, if you're utilizing your podcast to grow your business, then the first thing that I want to say is that you really do have to have good audio quality and video quality, which is one of the reasons why the technology has made it so much easier, and piggybacking on that is that, in addition to that. You have this oceanfront property your podcast is your oceanfront real estate to market your own products and services.

Traci DeForge: 17:09

So a lot of times when people think initially about monetization, they're thinking about the traditional radio model where they have advertisers buy ads and the ads go into the podcast. Well, thinking back, one of the reasons why radio lost its luster was because it oversold multiple commercial breaks and really just oversold everything within the stop sets, that the 10, the 20, the 40 and the 50. Like you were looking at some cases in radio that, especially during that high peak of eight minute commercial sets four times an hour, like that is a lot of minutes, you know, allocated to radio programming. But with podcasting you first and foremost, before you branch out into bringing other people into your show, look at what you have to offer to your audience. So it's so often overlooked that you have your own inventory, that you can market your own products and services, and you can do that through showcasing testimonials. You can do that through teeing up your own live read within your own show or having your own recorded show dropped into your show.

Traci DeForge: 18:15

So I think that's like one of the first things I want to say to people is never underestimate the power of your own property inside your podcast for monetization that you can tie back to an ROI and a specific story in that area. You know a lot of people go I just don't have enough downloads, I just don't have enough audience. Well, that's really relative to and it's all about perspective. Because we produce, I share the story quite a bit because it's an extremely powerful story about the power of her podcast growing her business and so divorce attorneys typically, or any attorney, is typically focused on a specific geography and if you're a divorce attorney, you're niched down to the type of firm that you have and you're geographically restricted to where you can work with your clients.

Traci DeForge: 19:01

Uh, this particular divorce podcast that we work with 60% of her customer base comes from directly from her podcast and she knows this because when she meets with them and she says something to them, then they either say back to her oh, I heard you talk about that on your podcast or they say something to her, which is so refreshing when someone will say something back to you that they heard you say on a podcast.

Traci DeForge: 19:23

So that's definitely and we're talking about. You know, less than 500 downloads an episode where she's getting 60% of her business from, and so the stats are really, really amazing that 63% of people say that they are more likely to purchase or support a brand that supports the podcast that they listen to. So that's your brand, your own brand and other products and services. And then, secondarily, which we can totally get into as well, is how to monetize that audience by bringing in brands and partners and sponsors when you have a smaller audience, because we're seeing really really great results with people that have smaller audiences 1,500 and less, 1,000 and less downloads and I like to talk about those numbers because I want people to understand what's possible and not feel like they have to wait to monetize till the right time.

Krystal Proffitt: 20:21

Oh, this is so good. And actually I do want to stay here for a second, because I think that this is where a lot of the audience is. Traci and I were talking before we started recording and I said I think that this audience is split kind of right down the middle of people that are just getting started, and then there's those people that are maybe you've been podcasting and you're at that catalyst moment. You're like okay, I am ready to monetize, but, T tracy, they are terrified to flip that on their audience because they haven't really had those skills to monetize up to this point. And now they're like okay, I think I'm ready, like I'm ready to bite the bullet.

Krystal Proffitt: 20:59

Whether it's a confidence piece that they were lacking before and now they have it, or maybe it's. They're like no, my numbers are really solid and I feel like it. How did you tell people or coach them because they don't know how to go about monetizing if they've never done it before? They're like I feel bad. Like I feel bad because I never talked about anything or my audience expected me to just give this away for free forever. And now I'm asking ads and sponsors do you have any advice for that person? That's like oh, this feels sticky, this feels really awkward to do it at this stage.

Traci DeForge: 21:38

Yeah, wow, I have so much for that. So first of all, I want to kind of highlight what you're saying. So mindset is everything. We talk about it. I know in one of your episodes that you were talking about, you know, with the financial expert it's like mindset is everything right, and you also have to apply that to your own podcast. So when you're creating your content, you're in a certain mindset around that and really embracing that.

Traci DeForge: 22:04

Your audience. Not only do they come to you and they are engaging with you because of the content that you create, but the more podcasting becomes popular, the more people understand that there are hard costs associated with podcasting. So that's where that high percentage of people 63, in some cases we've even seen 73%. So that's a pretty significant range 63 to 73% of listeners of podcasts want to support the host of their favorite podcast because they want to continue to get that information. I think being armed with data is power.

Traci DeForge: 22:39

So if you've never been a person who made their entire career off selling air which exactly is what advertising sales are when you're dealing with an audio-only platform, especially if you think about it so you have to make it a tangible experience for yourself and for the potential sponsor that you're talking to. But we do work with, like you're saying, in our Sponsorship Circle program we are coaching podcasters who may have never had any kind of business development or sales background before, or if they did, it was in their specific industry and it doesn't really necessarily cross over into branding and sales and marketing, which can be its own beast. So what we recommend and I use this phrase a lot, which is start where you are, and a lot of that is start where you are with your comfort level, but then also start with where you are, with where your show is, in terms of really doing a good assessment of what's you know. Where is your show, where are you right now? And then the third aspect of that is start where you are with your own network, because there are so many people most people, actually they will overestimate the number of people who know what they do and they will underestimate the number of people that they know. And I really feel like I want to say that again for emphasis you have a tendency to overestimate the number of people that know what you do and you underestimate the number of people you know.

Traci DeForge: 24:09

And that's important in this conversation around monetization and sponsorships and monetizing, because the best way to start the conversations about branding or with brands or having to talk about someone aligning with you and sponsoring your show, is to talk to people that you know and that know you and know the quality of your work and being able to inspire them to come along with you on your journey, because they already know you and the quality of what you do and your work and they know that aligning with you is going to be beneficial for their products and services. In a way, if they can get 63% conversions, the audience numbers go out the window at that point, right. So you really have to start where you are with your mindset data and get some research in numbers, like what we're talking about. Edison's research came out May of 2024. The most current data is accessible.

Traci DeForge: 25:46

Just familiarize yourself with the power of these podcasting stats, because then you get excited when you're talking to somebody, and it's not about cost per thousand at that point. Not about cost per thousand at that point. It's about I have really amazing, highly engaged, mighty network of people that are ready to do business with you and here's how I can support you in doing that. So it's like what's in it for you. So you know there's just there's so many different layers to it and I think with anything, you just have to start with the conversations that feel confident and comfortable for you, and those are. With anything, you just have to start with the conversations that feel confident and comfortable for you, and those are typically with people you already know.

Krystal Proffitt: 26:25

Yeah, and I mean to even take it a step further, like what you were talking about earlier about, you know, because I love talking about promoting your own products and services.

Krystal Proffitt: 26:34

I think that is the best way to get started with monetization and then take those numbers to the brands and the companies that you're working with and you can say, hey, these are my percentages, these are my data points that I'm already starting with when I talk about my own digital course or my coaching services or whatever it is that you're offering and showing them. Hey, these are the types of results that we can expect, and the whole original model of the CPM just goes out the window, like you're saying, like you can offer so much more value. But I'm curious if you have any examples of, like a client or someone that you've worked with, or maybe even one of your own shows, where you were surprised by how quickly a brand was like I don't even care about your downloads, like I just want to work with you, like they were excited to work with that person, that brand, that podcaster. Has that ever happened for you? Oh my gosh.

Traci DeForge: 27:26

So so so many interesting stories around this and I kind of want to start with one that's really small, so for relatability purposes, because it's such. It was just one of our most favorite client phone calls I've ever received and she left the most fun voicemail and it was the podcast is called PR Maven and she's based out of Connecticut again, like very small majority of her clients come from her own backyard and she we were working and coaching her through sponsorship. She worked with her to get everything set with her show in order to be ready for sponsorship and she got the first appointment, the first prospect call. She emailed us the day before completely angsty, like they're going to ask me about my downloads and I don't know what to tell them. And I've got the call, what do I do? And so you know we coached her through and said you know, talk about the value of your audience, talk about how engaged they are with you, talk about your success stories in PR and what you've been able to do for your clients. And then the conversation at that point wasn't about the downloads, it was about the movement of her audience and the tactical ways that she has been able to serve them.

Traci DeForge: 28:46

And the very next day she closed a sponsorship and it was a $3,000 sponsorship on an audience numbers of less than 300 downloads per episode. And so she closed a $3,000 sponsorship on this very first sale that she'd ever had on it. She called and like she was giddy. She was like they said yes and everything you told us worked. But and that's great for us Like yes, that's a humble brag, not or not so humble brag. But what I want everyone to take away from that story is is that she had the nerves, she had the angst. That story is is that she had the nerves, she had the angst. She was really like not comfortable going into the conversation, but she felt confident in her data, her numbers, like what she could do as a host, and her audience and how she had supported them. And then she was able to communicate that, along with her passion and enthusiasm, that they bought the sponsorship and she was off to the races. So that's a literal example of a very small, specific, geographically and niche targeted subject matter that she was able to claim that level of sponsorship for.

Traci DeForge: 29:54

And then you go to the opposite extreme, which is our NHL wraparound podcast, which just in itself, having the name NHL in it does not hurt. Sports marketing has a tendency to be more enthusiastically received for sponsorship, but this particular podcast did not have anything to do with the NHL in terms of brand affiliation, so it's not an NHL-financed podcast. It's not an NHL-endorsed podcast. It's a two-host. One was an ESPN broadcaster in the hockey space and then the other, the host, is Neil Smith, who was the general manager of the New York Rangers at the time. They won the Stanley Cup 30 years ago, which was in a if you're a hockey fan, you know this but it was just an historic, like amazing victory for the Stanley Cup win in 1994. And as a result of that, he has been an icon in the hockey space.

Traci DeForge: 30:55

So we were, and I love to share this story for people who are like I'm never going to be able to get sponsors for my podcast. The important pieces are that this wasn't an NHL finance. Like I was saying, there are two guys who have a big brand in the hockey space. But you can have a big brand in your space anywhere. It can be in the tech space, it can be in the interior design space, it can be in the coaching and consulting space. Theirs just happened to be in the hockey space.

Traci DeForge: 31:23

So when they came to us to launch their podcast, we started talking about monetization out of the gate. They were looking at maybe over the course of six to 12 months they would be able to monetize it. They knew it was a long game. We came out of launch with that podcast with over $20,000 in podcast sponsorship, from personal network relationships all the way up to UBS corporate and a game-worn jersey very niche, specific Like they were willing to take a chance.

Traci DeForge: 31:56

There were so many people that were willing to take a chance on this podcast because they knew Neil's reputation, they knew Vic's reputation, they knew that they were going to I mean it didn't hurt that they had Wayne Gretzky on the first episode, which I'm not even a hockey person. I grew up in the South where there wasn't ever any ice, for goodness sakes. I mean not to say that there weren't hockey teams, but in all seriousness, like I even knew who their first guest was going to be Right. But again it was people taking a chance on a podcast that had zero downloads because it had not even launched. And I would even love to even break down their monetization strategy for everybody, because it wasn't just the UBSs and the game-worn jerseys. It wasn't just them that were buying into it. We also had other monetization strategies lined up for them as well.

Krystal Proffitt: 32:50

Yeah, I mean, I would love to dive into any more of those, because I know that there's people that are listening right now and they're like okay, this, this sounds like the podcast launch of my dreams being able to have sponsors before I even put this out but they're also again, the imposter syndrome is hitting them hard. But I want to go back to what you said earlier and I love this so much. It's about the people that you know like, who are the companies at me, and I've actually I thought about this a few times. I have this dream and, like all of my free time that I don't have, I'm like I'm gonna create this podcast about Texas.

Krystal Proffitt: 33:28

I live in Texas, I love Texas and I have multiple family members that are obsessed with Texas history, and the first thing that I thought about was oh, I know like four or five entrepreneur friends that own businesses that are specific to Texas and they would love to have a marketing platform to share their businesses. So I'm just so curious and fascinated if someone's listening and they're like okay, I need to think about sponsorships in a different way. Do you have any like of the tools and strategies that maybe the hockey podcast used or other ways that they can go about dipping into their network without things getting awkward. Because again my audience they're like oh, I don't have a sales background, I'm just, you know. It makes them feel all squirmy and cringy.

Traci DeForge: 34:16

Yeah Well, I think that the reason for that is all the stereotypes that are associated with quote unquote sales. But here's the thing podcasters and business owners, if you're not selling, then you're not in business, and so you have to first redefine what your perception is of what selling is, because selling, in my opinion, is having a conversation like we're having right now that's fun and upbeat and enthusiastic about what we have to offer and the years of expertise that we've invested, like we are experts in our own right and we have the opportunity to have these conversations. So I think you have to like first shift your perspective about it's not cringy if you do, if you do things in a cringy way, they're going to be cringy. But if you're not a cringy oriented person you're not, I'm not, most people ideally aren't then you just have to think about it as having a conversation where you're presenting a scenario that's a win, win, win for everybody.

Traci DeForge: 35:17

Another example of a really great um opportunity around podcasting that I want to share has to do with a podcast called Berry Nation. Again, they are very focused and they have a community that serves people that have experienced um gastric bypass surgery, gastric, you know any kind of weight loss. You know, dramatic weight loss surgery. That's their, that's their surgery, that's their people, that's who they talk to. They have a highly highly engaged community outside of just their podcast, and their podcast is really great as well. So when we were working with them, they have never had the opportunity to do any kind of advertising sales. It was really kind of a foreign conversation for them. But how we worked with them and really instilled in them is like look how powerful your community moves when you recommend something, when you have a product that like there's some I've learned a lot about this as a result of producing this podcast but there are some certain products that are like ride or die products for people who have this type of surgery or struggle with the issues that come along with it, both psychologically and health wise. So when there's a product that works really well for this community, they are your biggest advocates and your biggest advocates and your biggest evangelists. So we've started working and talking through to them. Like what are some of these products that aren't you know that aren't maybe like the brand brand name Procter Gamble, brand names, like what are some of? Like the boutique brands that are really service, you know, servicing this niche and when we started to peel the onion layer off of and getting into the ability to have conversations with smaller businesses, the overwhelm just dropped significantly.

Traci DeForge: 37:41

And we did the same thing with the Outdoor Biz podcast. You know, when you think about sponsorships and I see this happen all the time and I've been guilty of it myself it's like an outdoor biz podcast. Oh, we should talk to Patagonia, we should talk to North Face, we should talk to Subaru. Well, those would be great conversations to have. But what about the boutique surfboard artisan craft hiking boots that like?

Traci DeForge: 38:04

There's so many cool small businesses that do not have the friction or the red tape or the you know that you can actually connect with and say I have this mighty community of outdoor evangelists. Or I have this mighty community of people who eat your protein bars every single day because it works for them. Wouldn't you love to have that conversation with more people to to that could, that could engage with your product? And then you're excited, right Like it's like you're doing something for them. It's not about what the cost is to sponsor the episode or what the downloads are. It's about helping people. Helping people and when you can think of sales in that way and it's authentic for you, then that's where the win-win-win comes in.

Krystal Proffitt: 38:51

Yeah, and I love this so much. It's like just the mindset shift. You know we've talked about mindset so many times today and it's just like that shift in perspective of offering value and helping everyone involved and everybody wins. Like I think that that is just the way and then just lean into the authentic thing, like cause. We all know, like you, I bet everybody listening right now can think of five different things that your audience would love, whether it's a product, whether it's a service, it's just a book you know it could be a book on Amazon that you wanna recommend. Like there are so many things that they're the tools that are in your toolkit that you could offer to your audience, and I think that approaching brands and sponsorships that way as well is just going to help you land those deals just many more times than you would without them. But I absolutely love this conversation. Were you going to add something else, T raci?

Traci DeForge: 39:44

I was because I wanted to circle back to what you were saying around, like um, specifically about the NHL and podcast, and not necessarily about pre-launch, but I wanted to talk about special series for a moment, because there was something that you said that triggered me about content creation and creating series. One of the things that I'd love for people to think through is, like, when you have an idea to create a special series, think about it in the way that television is pitched, for example. A lot of creators, they will create a pilot, they will have a concept, they will think about a show that they want to take to Apple TV or to Netflix or to the networks, and they're pitching the show and then, once the show gets funded, then the show goes into production. Well, you do not have to be a big NBC, netflix, apple podcast executive to apply this theory to your own podcast If you have a special content series that you think would be beneficial to your audience.

Traci DeForge: 40:51

A very specific example I'm thinking about is we work with a podcast called Fertility Cafe. We actually launched them five years ago and they're going into season six and she is really expanding. She's expanding internationally. She's expanding and doing live summits in person in the US, australia in the UK, live summits in person in the US, australia in the UK. So she has five seasons of this amazing content around surrogacy, around IVF, egg donors, and so what we're working together on is monetizing these special series. So she has enough content that she can repurpose some. So, efficiency purposes, she can pull some archived content, repurpose it, bring in some fresh guests, redo new intros on some of the repurposed content. But she can build out these very specific fertility focused special series. But before she's actually going to go to the investment of time, resources and bandwidth to create these series, she's going to pre-sell them, and that's one of the things where we are seeing a lot of good momentum and traction.

Traci DeForge: 42:01

You have your regular maybe you release once a week, maybe you release every other week, and that's your regular episode releases. You can monetize those by putting special segments inside of them, by having people sponsor individual episodes or a bundle of episodes. But then you have this other idea and this feeds that entrepreneurial, like shiny object syndrome so much. That's why I love it. It's like, oh, I have an idea for a series and how am I going to make this fit into my editorial calendar? But you can take that shiny object syndrome and turn it into a sponsorship package, have a conversation who might be a really well aligned, like in her case. You know finance there's special financing for fertility journeys now there's. You know the law attorneys are really focused. You know that's a heavy law firm focused pathway so you can have these conversations about I'm going to create this special series. Do you want in? Yes, okay, great, you get the green light. Then you produce the series and it's funded.

Krystal Proffitt: 43:03

Okay, I love this so much and I have like 17 more questions, but one specifically that I want to know is when you say that you're pre-selling them because I know that my listeners are listening they're like does that mean it's baked in? Is that dynamic? What are the actual ad packages looking like for some of these promotional sponsorships that you typically see?

Traci DeForge: 43:26

Yeah, such a great question. I'm so glad you asked that because this is just something I eat, breathe and sleep and I kind of I forget that not everybody. Just you know like, oh, you do that, okay, great. So what you want to look at, you want to, first of all, you want to okay, I have a special series. I really want to. This will integrate into you know how to write a book or how to launch a podcast or how to you know whatever your products and services are fertility journeys, finance journeys, like anything.

Traci DeForge: 43:53

You create your special series around that. Then you're going to want to break it down and say, okay, how many episodes I recommend in a special series? That you have about five episodes, like anything. I mean minimum of three, but you don't really need to go outside of like five, seven at the most for this type of, especially if it's your first rodeo with this right. So let's say you land on five episodes in this special series.

Traci DeForge: 44:20

You can then start breaking down what the content will be and then identifying, based on the content, what type of experts you could align yourself with for sponsorship experts you could align yourself with for sponsorship. So you might want to have a premium sponsor, who would be the person who is the premium. They would have the title series. If you will, we call it the Arena Rights Sponsorship. We don't think you should necessarily compromise the name of the series because of SEO, but you could always say your podcast is powered by or the special series is powered by, so you have somebody who has presence in all of the episodes there. Then you have the opportunity to have a guest appearance baked into the special series. So if you have the opportunity to be able to bring in an attorney or a finance expert or a certain coach or a certain expert in the industry, part of their sponsorship can include an appearance within the special series, so that it's something that's working with them.

Krystal Proffitt: 45:26

So I love it when these things happen in real time, especially with two podcast professionals. Of course, we had internet issues and things dropped, but this is the transparency that I love to share on this show. It's like, hey, if this happens to you, it is not the end of the world, because it happened to Traci and I, it happens to all of us.

Traci DeForge: 45:44

Yes, and that is unfortunately, that is the reality, which is very helpful when you can just again like just not have. I used to say tech challenges just make me a better human.

Krystal Proffitt: 45:58

A hundred percent, a hundred percent, a little bit more patient, you know, a little bit more like, but what you were sharing is you were sharing about monetization and with limited series and really just to round out the whole idea of bringing together companies and brands and the message that someone is so passionate about. Is there one last thing that you'd like to share that could just really help someone shift that mindset again, Because we've talked about so many times from I don't know if I'm ready for this to maybe this is something that I should explore.

Traci DeForge: 46:33

Yeah, so what? So we were talking about probably like one of the most elaborate sponsorship strategies which is involved. Just to recap, in case that the our tech issues challenged us. You know you were talking about the possibility of a title sponsorship. You're talking about the possibility of integrating a guest appearance into a special series and all of the things that go along with that. Those are aspirational levels.

Traci DeForge: 47:01

Coming back to the start, where you are, the best recommendation that I can make for where you are right now, if you're just starting out, is if you don't already have a special segment inside of your show that start there. So if you, at the end of every episode, ask a question, you know what does a richer life mean to you. If you're a financially focused podcast and you're you know what is living a richer life by design mean to you. Which was one of our podcasters. We integrated that as a special segment. If you have a special segment was one of our podcasters. We integrated that as a special segment. If you have a special segment, one of our podcasters Salad with a Side of Fries does the nutrition nugget.

Traci DeForge: 47:38

So the first and easiest thing that you can do is create a special segment inside your podcast that is a benefit to your audience that they're going to really love, and start doing that consistently and then start offering that special segment for sponsorship because you can.

Traci DeForge: 47:57

Something like that could be sponsored for $250 or $450, you know, and those are easier conversations to have than do. You want to sponsor my special series for $7,500, right? So don't you know, unless you're just a jump off the deep end kind of person which some of our podcast clients are, and they're like, let's go for the 20K, right, but just start small so that you start getting the kinks out, because a lot of the other things that you have to think about is the sponsorship starts when you close the sale. So we've talked a lot about, like, what it takes to have the conversation, to pick up that hundred pound gorilla phone or send that thousand pound keyboard email, but then, once you sell it, you also have to service it, right, so you? So that's why. That's why I want to say, like, start with a small little special segment, get that sponsored, then get episode sponsored, then get it powered by sponsored, then do a special series, like, just work your way into it, like with anything else.

Krystal Proffitt: 48:55

Oh my gosh, like Traci, I feel like we could talk for seven more hours about this because, like we said earlier, I love finding people that can just talk podcasting and we just I mean, we could just go so many rabbit holes Like there's so many opportunities and maybe we'll have to have you back on the show again because this was just so much fun. So much fun, but I do want to wrap up today's episode with our three rapid fire questions that we ask all of our guests. So are you up for those?

Traci DeForge: 49:25

I am always up for a rapid fire question Okay awesome, awesome.

Krystal Proffitt: 49:30

These will be a lot of fun. I can't wait to hear your answers for this. The first one is what piece of advice would you give to a brand new podcaster or content creator?

Traci DeForge: 49:41

Keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. Yeah, hashtag, keep going. Like it's like just keep in mind that starting a podcast is like starting anything. It's like starting a fitness routine. It's like starting a diet, it's like starting a business. It's like it's a start of something. The beauty is in the beginning and it's fun and it's exciting, but the rewards and the impact and the ripple effect all come as a result of just keep showing up and keep doing what you're doing and just yeah, keep going.

Krystal Proffitt: 50:14

Oh, I love that. I love that. The next one's a two-part question. The first one is what is the dream podcast you would love to be on?

Traci DeForge: 50:28

Oh, that is so unfair. Oh my gosh. Um, the dream podcast that I would like to be on. Um, but I would just like to hang out with the guys that do smart list. Like they don't. They don't have guests. But cause I'm such a producer, like for me to like that's who I want to be in the studio with Right. Like I don't know that I like for me to like that's who I want to be in the studio with right.

Traci DeForge: 50:51

Like I don't know that I want to you know, like I don't think I'm I don't think I'm a fair person to answer that question, because my mind goes to who do you want to hang out in the studio with? And like that would just be, like I can't even imagine how much fun that would be to hang out with them in the studio while that show's being produced. And what was the second part?

Krystal Proffitt: 51:10

So that's your dream podcast you'd love to be on. And then, who is the dream podcast guest you would love to interview?

Traci DeForge: 51:17

Oh my gosh, oh wow, man, there's so many. Who is the podcast guest that I would want to interview? Okay, this is so radical and bizarro, but this is what came to my mind, so I would like to. I would like to interview um jelly rolls wife bunny that does the dumb blonde podcast. I love this. I have a passion for the music business, being in radio for so long, and I've followed his trajectory through and he's you know they. They are controversial to a degree, but at the same time, like the, I would really really like to interview her because I believe in my heart that she is as authentic as she comes across and I just want to see it for myself.

Krystal Proffitt: 52:06

I love this. I love the indulgent answers here and, by the way, smart list has been listed so many times that people are like I'd love to be on smart list, and it's the same reason. It's like just to hang out with them. It's the first time we've had Jelly Roll's wife on here, though, so you're very unique in that answer.

Traci DeForge: 52:21

Yeah, yeah, okay, bunny from the Dumplin' podcast, yeah, she's doing some really interesting things with her chef, so I love that, okay. My last question is do you consider yourself a perfectionist? I consider myself to be a recovering perfectionist because I have seen firsthand of how it has held me back, been destructive, in my own personal and professional hurdles and it's just something that has been an absolute nemesis, achilles heel for me. And I think a lot of that comes back to being really young in a broadcast career, being female, being Southern, you know having to just really just work so hard to stop being management at a really young age and and just overcoming and like just having thinking. You know it's a perceived perfectionism, is a perceived element of control, but there is, you don't have, you don't have control. So as soon as you can accept that and realize that it's really about procrastination, perfectionism also creates a tremendous amount of procrastination. I think once you understand perfectionism, it loses its luster.

Krystal Proffitt: 53:34

So yeah, Ah, I love that and such a great answer. And, like I said, T raci, we could talk for five more hours just about this. This was so much fun, but if people are listening they're like, yeah, I think I wanna work with Traci.

Traci DeForge: 53:56

I think I would love to learn more about what she does. Where can everyone learn more about what you do and how they can connect with you? Well, the best way to connect with me is to go to our website, which is produceyourpodcastcom, and you can connect there. There's a lot of great videos from clients telling the stories, like I shared with you today, and you can book a call, you can fill out the contact information, you can learn more about our Sponsorship Circle coaching program and all of those things, but everything is really robustly laid out at ProduceYourPodcastcom.

Krystal Proffitt: 54:25

Awesome, awesome, and we're going to have links for that and just some other fun ways that you can connect with Traci and learn more about all the cool things that she's doing. But thank you again for being on the show today. This was so much fun, thank you.

Traci DeForge: 54:40

It was just a blast.

Krystal Proffitt: 54:42

Wow, wow, wow. I mean that was just such a fun conversation. I loved meeting Traci and we were both like how have we not crossed paths before and shout out to Angie? So, angie Trueblood. She made the introduction and she's from the Podwise group and she was like you need to have Traci on the podcast. Like how have y'all not met before? Y'all, you need to connect with her.

Krystal Proffitt: 55:09

And I'm so grateful that she did, because this conversation was again just so fun, minus, you know our our little technical glitches, but that's fine, you know it happens and that's why we like to talk about it and say that. You know, even those of us that have been doing this for a long time have the technical hiccups, and it's just funny how it just happens to be the time when it's like oh, it's two podcast experts and then we have issues. Yes, we do too. So quit being so dang hard on yourself whenever you have issues, because it happens to all of us. But make sure you go check out Traci and the awesome things that she's doing over at Produce your Podcast. You're going to find links to everything in the show notes, so make sure you go check them out. But that's all I have for you today. So if this is your first time tuning into the show, make sure you hit that subscribe or follow wherever you are listening and, as always, remember, keep it up. We all have to start somewhere.