Ep: 122 How to talk about sex & puberty with your teen? with Dolly Klock MD founder of Adolessons!

Dr. Dolly Klock, a family medicine physician and founder of Adolessons, discusses the importance of open conversations about sex and puberty with children and adolescents. Dr. Klock provides guidance on starting conversations at different ages and addresses the challenges of talking to shy or reluctant children. She also highlights the prevalence of pornography exposure among children and the importance of discussing it with them. Dr. Klock offers various services, including parent coaching, group workshops, and talks for teens and parents. In this conversation, Dr. Dolly Klock discusses the importance of open communication between parents and children, to help build trust and connection.

To learn more from Dolly:
Follow her on instagram @adolessonsla
Email her at info@adolessonsla.com
And check out her website: www.adolessonsla.com

Dr Jessica Hochman is a board certified pediatrician, mom to three children, and she is very passionate about the health and well being of children. Most of her educational videos are targeted towards general pediatric topics and presented in an easy to understand manner.

For more content from Dr Jessica Hochman:
Instagram: @AskDrJessica
YouTube channel: Ask Dr Jessica
Website: www.askdrjessicamd.com

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Do you have a future topic you'd like Dr Jessica Hochman to discuss? Email Dr Jessica Hochman askdrjessicamd@gmail.com.

The information presented in Ask Dr Jessica is for general educational purposes only. She does not diagnose medical conditions or formulate treatment plans for specific individuals. If you have a concern about your child's health, be sure to call your child's health care provider.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

Hi everybody, I'm Dr. Jessica Hochman, paediatrician, and mom of three. On this podcast I like to talk about various paediatric health topics, sharing my knowledge not only as a doctor, but also as a parent. Ultimately, my hope is that when it comes to your children's health, you feel more confident, worry less, and enjoy your parenting experience as much as possible. So for most of us parents, there are certain topics that feel especially awkward to talk about with our kids. Today's guest Dr. Dolly clock has spent the last 20 years on a mission to help kids and parents have these conversations, for example, about subjects like puberty and sex. In this episode, Dr. Clark shares ideas on how to discuss these tricky topics with facts and humour, and most importantly, how to keep the lines of communication open with our kids. You are going to love Dr. Clock. She's warm, she's funny, and she's knowledgeable. And I'm so thankful. She's our guest today on Ask Dr. Jessica. And before we get started, if you're enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to rate review and share this podcast. Reading kind reviews truly makes my day dolly Cluck. I'm so happy to have you here. Thank you so much for taking the time. This is a conversation I've been looking forward to having. I definitely think my audience will enjoy hearing your words of wisdom. But I also am hoping to glean from your advice as well. So thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to talk with you. So tell us who are you tell us what kind of a doctor you are and what do you do for work? Okay, all right. So I am a family medicine physician. And I run a business called adolescents, which is a play on words. And through that I do a lot of basically health education. So I do a lot of work with parents, lots of parent education and parent coaching. And also work with tweens and teens around a bunch of topics that have to do with adolescent health and behaviour. So lots of talking about puberty and childhood sexual development and teen sexuality in the digital age parenting in the digital age, teen party culture, all of that stuff. So kind of like all things adolescence. And it's, it's honestly, it's like the best the best job. So I transitioned out of clinical medicine about a decade ago to start this sort of wondering how it would go and, and people need a lot of extra support is what I what I've learned and, and so I'm here I'm here to be that cheerleader help parents along, have have a sort of more open ended time to have some really great conversations with with kids and adults alike. And I'm so curious, how did it come to be that you found this niche? Okay, well, so the Genesis really came from my clinical experience, which I know you will relate to because as physicians, you know, you're in paediatrics as family medicine. And so, you know, you you get exposed to like this full range of like parent caretaker child relationships. And I really realised in my clinical experience, what a difference it made when parents had an open, honest ongoing conversation with their kids, about their bodies about how their bodies were changing and about sensitive issues like sex. And, and I saw how actually protective that was in terms of, of kids health, because I would also say, as I'm sure you do the teenagers right who come in, and what a difference it is, if a teen is coming in, because they're concerned, they're pregnant, or they think they might have a sexual infection and how different it is and feels as the provider, if they're coming in with a parent who's supporting them, where they've already talked about it, where they're there as a team to like get the information they need to stay healthy and move forward, compared to the teens who came in alone and scared and could never have these conversations with their with their own parents. And it really it makes a difference in their health. And we know this from the world of sex education as well, right? We know that when adolescents get accurate information from the trusted adults in their lives, that they're more likely to be healthy, right, they're more likely to delay their first sexual interaction. And when they do become sexually active, they tend to have fewer partners, they're less likely to get sexual infections are less likely to be part of a teen pregnancy and so so these conversations are really protective. And so I became very, very passionate about helping families connect around this subject matter and having those open conversations at home and and so when I started this that my kids were in, like, you know, mid early to mid Elementary School, and honestly it started in a parent education. Meeting at my kid school that I was attending as a parent, a topic of puberty and talking about sex with your third grader came up. And I found myself, you know, like kind of adding to the discussion and piping and then after that people would just start to turn to me more and more for that kind of information. And I realised, okay, there's, there's, there's a need for for more of this. And that's, that's really how it all started. And you have a gift at talking about the topic, which is also so important, because I think you're right, there are so many families that want to talk about these conversations with their kids, but they don't know how to go about it. Yeah, I think a lot of parents are embarrassed or maybe they come with their own upbringing. I know everybody's different on how they feel about talking about sex with their kids. But I agree with you, as a provider, it feels so much better. When parents are involved in those conversations. For example, when we're talking about birth control, this comes up quite frequently, it's so it just feels so much better when parents are in the know. And we're having that conversation together as opposed to a kid asking me in private to be on birth control. So I totally agree, for parents to be able to talk with their kids, I just think that is so healthy for them as you as you as you brought up. Yeah. And it's you know, there's so many reasons why I, you know, the parents I work with are so well, meaning they love their kids so much. They want the best for their kids. But this is like difficult subject matter for a lot of people. And sometimes it's because their own parents didn't talk to them right when they were growing up. So this was never modelled for them. Or maybe there's like religious reasons or cultural reasons where there's some shame around around those topics of bodies and sex, right? Or sometimes there's their parents who have, you know, been victims of sexual assault. And that makes it it becomes a very loaded topic for them. Like, there's so many reasons. But I think the biggest reason is people just find it awkward. And it can be awkward, right? I guess I just like, I don't know, I love the awkward like I, I embrace it. So So I think that's what I try to get out to parents do. Because if you can, once you start chipping away at this, and once you like, get used to talking about this, if you can talk to your kids about sex, you can talk to them about anything really right and, and what comes from it, eventually, are some really wonderful conversations and funny conversations, you know what I mean? I think it can be, it can create a really bonding experience for parents and kids, once they get past that initial step of starting. No, I love that advice, embrace the awkward, I'm gonna keep that in my mind. Because I have to tell you, in my household, for example, we are a two physician household, myself and my husband. So you know, really, we should be comfortable talking about these terms and body parts and sex because it's biology. And it should be something that's not awkward for us. And I grew up in a home where my parents were very comfortable talking with me about these various topics about sex and whatnot. And myself as a parent, when my kids are asking us these questions, my husband, I kid you not His answer was call your aunt Jackie, he told my kids to call my sister to ask their questions to her. And so we should be a comfortable family to talk about this topic with but it still just feels awkward. So I am taking your advice, I'm going to embrace the awkward. And so this is a great pep talk for for me. So thank you so much. I love it when I hope you do. But I also want to say that that tactic, sometimes there are parents who can't just just cannot do it. And so what your husband was doing and sort of identifying who's the other trusted adult that that we think they'll hear the information from differently, right. So I think there's, there's something to be said for that too. And that's something I encourage parents to do is to like create the community of adults. Even if you feel like you can communicate openly with your kids, as they get older, there are certain things that come up where maybe they're not going to want to go to their parent, right. And so if there's an aunt or an uncle or a young adult cousin or someone that they you know, have a great relationship with, and they can be on your team, right and you let that person know that you're okay with them having these conversations and, and letting your your child know that those can become confidential conversations, right? Because everybody's trusting in these people so that having that team is also really helpful. Now that's a really good point. I remember as a child, my grandma trying to talk to me about sex and puberty and I was so uncomfortable talking to her. I looking back, I wish I was able to have those conversations with her, but it just felt really awkward. But I did have other family members that I felt more comfortable talking with. So that's a really good point that we should encourage kids to have their community and find trusted sources that they can have these conversations with. It just feels so much better than going to the internet, right? Oh my gosh, well, that's the other thing right? And sometimes, you know, Parents get so they feel like their kid's not ready yet for the information, or they just aren't comfortable talking about it. But then if you're not talking about it, you're missing that opportunity to make sure they're getting accurate information and also to get your values, right, like every family has different values. And, and when they, when children don't have that opportunity to talk with their own trusted adults, they're, they're gonna get the answer somewhere, right? So they're going to talk with their friends, they're going to get information from their friends, older siblings, or they're going to the internet, right? And I promise you that Google images or Pornhub, do not, you know, share your parenting values. So scary. Okay, so let's talk about where should we start? At what age should parents really be bringing up the subject of sex puberty, body changes? When do you recommend us beginning those conversations with our kids? Okay, so I really, I always say like, it's never too early, and it's never too late to start these conversations. And, and so when we're talking about very young children, oftentimes, you know, kids are really curious. And they will ask questions at ages 3456. Like that is not uncommon, particularly if maybe they have a parent who's pregnant, right? Because the next is baby siblings coming all the way out long. And so questions come up. And I think parents in those moments tend to freeze and they feel like, oh, no, no, it's way too early. But I believe that if a if a child is old enough to ask a question about bodies, about sex about where babies come from, then they're old enough for an age appropriate response. And those are like golden moments, right? Because you don't have to figure out how to bring it up. It's presented to you, right? And so, so answering them very simply, first of all, being curious about why they're asking because sometimes, like, in our adult brains, we think they're asking more than they really are. Right? So just sort of clarifying and meeting them with, like, that's such a great question, what made you think of it right, and see what is going through their minds, and then just giving them little bits, I think we, when we get nervous, as adults, and parents, we tend to over over explain, and it turns into this big lecture, and nobody can like process it, especially when they're young like that, right? So just little bits of information at a time, and let them ask for more. And so there's a great sexuality educator named Deborah Rothman, who has some wonderful books on this subject. And, and she talks about how, how age, you know, four is, is when kids commonly asked like, where did I come from? And she she frames it as this is the geography question, this is your chance to talk about, you know, the uterus, no matter what your conception or birth story is, like, that's where that's where the baby came from. Right? And then that is enough to satisfy like, a lot of young children, but others will move on to the next question, which is like how to get out of there. Right? And that's like, the transportation question is actually puts it right. And so this is the opportunity to talk about vaginal birth, even if your child was born by C section, right? Like, this is an opportunity to talk about we're naming anatomy, right? And we're talking about that. And then eventually, the question comes, like, how do I get in there in the first place, right? And even that, you know, depending on the child, some kids are going to want to know exactly, there's like a mechanic's piece of it, others are going to be you know, satisfied with learning about somebody's have eggs, and some have sperm and you need those two cells to come together, you know, like, that sort of thing. And they're asking because they're curious, and they don't, we don't have to go into great detail. We're just meeting them where they are, and then waiting for more more questions to come. I love that meeting them where they are, I think that is the perfect advice, because you don't want to shy away from their questions. And as you pointed out, you don't want to give them too many details more than they're asking for. But meeting them where they are sounds like a perfect response. I always say like, You're not old enough, or I'll tell you later, you know what I mean? It's, it's okay to say, I'll tell you later, because you want to like, compose yourself and you know, come up with your approach, or maybe there's a younger sibling around that's not ready for the conversation. And so that's okay, but you need to you do need to come back to it within a fairly short amount of time, right? Because when we don't, then they get this message that there's something about this, that shameful or there's something about this that makes my parent my caregiver very uncomfortable, right. And so we want we want to present ourselves as being approachable with these topics. I also love that you pointed out we don't have to give the talk where we set our kids down and give all the information, all the details in one long conversation because you're right, that would be very overwhelming for a child because I know a lot of us grew up and we'll talk to our friends and say did you get the talk from your pay? Aaron said, you get the talk. There's this term the talk when you're right, just giving little bits of information as they ask the questions going along through their childhood. That sounds to me like a more reasonable, comfortable approach. Yeah. And it's easier for them to process. They're not going to process everything. And even even when you just get little bits of information, it's really interesting. Like, they will hear it in that moment. And they might ask the exact same question a year later. And you're like, didn't we already talk? I thought I covered that already. Right. But it's like, now they're thinking about another aspect of it. And so we do have to revisit it. And that's the beauty of it. Because the conversation, especially when you have the advantage of starting early, then the conversation gets to very naturally evolve over many, many years, as their experiences change. And their bodies change. And they start, you know, crushes develop, and, and they start dating or having interest in that. And so that's the ideal way. So I feel like I got off early with my oldest child because she's now 13. And she really doesn't ask many questions when I bring it up with her. She's very shy. It's not a comfortable conversation for her. Okay. my eight year old, my youngest, she is the complete opposite. She asked all kinds of questions. And so I think this is where I'm thrown a little bit on how to respond to her because she's on the younger side. So for example, we went on a walk together. Yesterday, we took our dog out for a walk. And she said to me, mommy, how does our dog's name was Nola? How does Nola make a baby? If she could be a mommy? How would her daddy make a baby? What what happened? And I said to her, a penis from from another male dog would go in her vagina. And she looked at me with such I don't know if it was fear in her eyes concern in her eyes. She did not look comfortable with my answer. So I kind of left it at that. But I don't know if I gave her too much information or if I answered her, right, but I tried. Okay, well, number one, good for you. Like she, she looked at me like, what do you what do you mean? How does? How does that work out? How does that even come were where the penis would get near her vagina? She didn't understand what I was saying. So I don't know if I should have addressed it more gone into it more. But that's how the conversation went. Okay, I love that you you answered her right? And you answered her very simply, just like we talked about. Right? And but that's such a common response, whether you're talking about dogs making babies or adult, you know, humans making babies, you know, if you're talking about that kind of sets that for them, like when it's their first time hearing it like that is the wildest thing like no, that's like the how would they ever have imagined that right? And so oftentimes, kids will have all sorts of reactions to it. But it's not uncommon for them to be like, what? Or that's disgusting. That's like another very common one that comes out. And then parents get nervous, like, oh, my gosh, I just traumatise my kid. I gave them way too much information. But you didn't. You just gave them just enough. And now they're thinking about it. And now you it'll be easier to come back to that, like, you can revisit that at some point. When the moment feels right. You'd be like, remember when you asked me about how dogs make babies? Like, you seem kind of surprised? Like, what have you thought about it? Some more, you know, or, you know, at some point, you might be like, Have you ever thought about how grownups make babies? Right? You can like, get there when that feels right. But to to your earlier point about how we have to be careful not to give too much information. I worried that I did that. Because her follow up question to me was, but would they get married? Do they get married before they have a baby? And if she does get married to the other dog? Would they live together and not at our house? In other words, her curiosity and her questions were so much simpler than what I was thinking in my mind. Well, that comes back to like, Okay, if you could rewind the clock, even though you may very well have gotten to the same place. Right? You could have said like, that's such a great question. When she asked how to how do dogs make babies? Right? You could be like, that's an amazing question. What do you what do you think, you know, and see what she what she said? Because maybe maybe she wasn't looking for quite that, but I think she was. So I think he would have ended up in the same place quite possibly. Okay, so for those more precocious questions, I think this is a great point that we should first first ask them what they're thinking, figure out how far figured out exactly where their knowledge base lies, and then go from there. Yeah, but also know that at a certain point, because you've mentioned, you know, how your children are different in terms of their curiosity or their willingness to ask questions, right. And so, so when they're very young, we have the benefit of like, you know, the luxury of time to get there. Right. And so we can sort of meet them where they are at some point. We get to the place where it's probably a good idea to have the conversation even if they're not asking. And the other thing I want to just come back to because you You mentioned your older daughter is a little quieter about this. So you can also I feel like every child should get the privilege of having this like, you know, one on one conversation with their primary caregiver. But at the same time, sometimes you can use the chattier child to your advantage to approach the not so chatty one just by having them in earshot. So you're having the conversation with the one who wants to talk about it, and the other one is going to pretend they're not listening, right? They're over there, like frantically working on their Legos or something, but they are listening. And so now they're getting it kind of by osmosis. This definitely happens in our home, my youngest will ask questions, and I can tell my oldest gets quiet, but she's listening. She's definitely listening. And I'm actually glad that she's listening because I know this is my opportunity to let her know that we can have these conversations in our home. But yes, question for you. What if a family is listening right now they have a child on the shyer side, they don't have a younger, more talkative child? How should parents start those conversations? If that child doesn't seem open and interested or seems embarrassed to have these conversations? What What should we do in that situation? Okay, well, there, there are multiple approaches, but just a couple. So I think you know, context is helpful. So maybe if we're talking about this conversation, like, Where do babies come from that type of thing. So, you know, they're very well, maybe a pregnant Teacher, are you seeing a pregnant woman walking down the street, this is a great starting point where you could just say, like, oh, my gosh, I heard Miss so and so's having a baby. That's so exciting. And, and it just occurred to me, like, you've never asked me where babies come from, like, what do you what do you know about that, and you're gonna, from their reaction, like, have a sense if they've heard something already or not, right. And so you can sort of go into it that way. Another great opening to these conversations is, is puberty, right? Because by the time they're, you know, third or fourth grade, there are some children who have already started the changes of puberty. And so so that is something that's going to happen to all bodies. And even if you, if your kids seems to be completely pre pubescent, they're going to have peers that are are changing, and so that there's a lot of awareness around that. And so, there's so many wonderful books for children that are on these topics, I have a bunch of links on my website, if people want to go on there later on the in the resources section of my website. And, and those books are such a good, not only are they great for the kids to make sure they're getting this wonderful information, but they're really helpful for parents who are looking for the language to use. So I think that's a good thing when they're younger, oftentimes, kids will, like be happy to read them with a parent, not all of them, some are gonna be like, ah, but you could say like, Hey, you know, if you have a kid who were you start to try to have this conversation and they're very resistant, then that's okay. Right? You don't, I don't think you need to force them at that point. But you can say, like, I see, you're not really wanting to talk about this right now. That's, that's okay. I just want you to know that I'm here for you. I'm ready to have this conversation, wherever you are, you can always ask me any questions, and I'm gonna get you like a really great, great book. And they might be like, I don't need a book, but you can just get a book and just show them like, I think this is such a wonderful book. And and I'm just gonna put it like on the shelf in your bedroom, I'm gonna put it in the bathroom, you know, and it'll just sit there and put it somewhere where they can like, look at it on their own in private, right? So they don't feel like they're under the microscope that oh, now they're reading the book that they said they didn't want, I can definitely relate to what you're saying. My my oldest child, I asked her, do you have any questions about puberty? Do you want to talk about what it means to have your period? You know what that is? Because she's getting to that age, right? She just turned 13. She didn't really want to talk about it. But I did buy her the Care and Keeping a view and some other puberty books. And she read the care, care and keeping a view in less than a day she went in her room, she finished it. So to your point, even though she didn't feel comfortable talking with me about her questions. I know, she's definitely curious. She read the book. And so that's that approach worked for me as I think about my older child for sure. Yes, I think that's a very common way that goes down is that they're actually really grateful. And now even though you maybe didn't have the conversation yourself, she knows that you heard her you kind of anticipated her needs, and you supplied her with the information that she needed, and it's just going to make it that much easier than next time. The big question I have is when to talk to kids about pornography. I don't know. Do you know any of the statistics off the top of your head and to share with people listening about how, how common it is for kids to be exposed to pornography and by what age? Yeah, this was one of like, the biggest surprises when actually when I started adolescence is, even though I'd been kind of like talking about it a little bit. And in the clinical space, I remember I posted an article on social media, you know about children's exposure to pornography, I could not believe how many DMS and emails and calls I got from parents saying thank you. This was like years ago, I feel like now luckily, more people are talking about it. But saying like, Thank you, nobody ever talks about this. And then they would launch into the story of their eight 910 12 year old, you know, who had stumbled onto porn. And also, we have to, like, recognise that art. It's not that these young kids are like seeking this out. But our kids are on screens like they're, they just are they have to be for school, right? If nothing else, right there and for entertainment and whatnot. And so we know from Common Sense Media that kids are tweens are using screens, media for entertainment, like five and a half hours a day is average, and teens, eight and a half hours a day. That's not including the amount of time they're on screens for schoolwork, and everything else. So So now they're on these devices, and they're on various platforms. And what happens is eventually, the poor and even if they're not looking for it, we'll find them because it said this is like a giant business, right. And so so they have great search engine optimization, and they know how to how to get to the eyeballs. And so the statistics are again from Common Sense Media. They just did a whole report on teens and pornography, you can look for that if you're interested in going deeper. In fact, there's a link to I was moderated a discussion discussion about it's on my website. But the average age of first seeing porn is 12, according to their research, and 15% of teens said that they had seen it by the age of 10. So they are seeing it at a very young age by age 17 73% had said they had been watching porn, there wasn't a big gender difference, which is surprising to a lot of people. But there really there really wasn't where there was a gender difference was in intentional use. So sis boys were more likely to be seeking out porn than were cisgender girls. But it more than half of teens also, here's another statistic encountered pornography accidentally. And probably the most concerning parts of me as a physician and as a mom is that more than half of teens said that they'd seen violent or aggressive pornography, including media that depicted rape, choking or someone in pain. This is where it's so concerning, right? Because because it's not just that they're seeing people having sex their mainstream porn right now. Not all of it, but much of it depicts violence or aggressive sex, right? And so if you're a young child, or even a teenager who doesn't have like, real world life experience from which to process these images and to contextualise, right, and that's your first introduction into what sex is, then how are they supposed to know like that this is just a fantasy? Or how are they supposed to know that, that, you know, real life loving, intimate relationships don't necessarily mix, sex and violence, right. And so this is where it's really important that we talk to our kids, like we have to, we have to be having these conversations. And it's part of the reason why I do feel strongly that we need to start talking about bodies and start talking about sex at a younger age than we feel like we have to because we want our kids to know they can come to us we want we want to be able to share our values around it right and so, so at some point, we have to get past this this discussion of mechanics of sex and talk about like, all the other like positive, wonderful aspects of human sexuality, right? And how that is something that creates human connection and how that's part of intimacy and part of part of loving relationships. Right? And this is where you get to throw in your values if you're a family that feels like sex is something that should only be for married people talk about that if you feel like sex should be for only for people who are in loving, trusting relationships, talk about that, if you feel like sex should be is okay with whoever as long as there's consent, talk about that, right? Those are all different values, right? And so the only person who can share that is you, you the caregiver of your child, but we have to like start having as we have to talk about pleasure, about pleasure being a part of sex. That's how our bodies are designed. That's why we exist as a species, right? And so so none of that is apparent to these kids who are exposed to porn at a young age. So talking about it, having them understand those bodies are not what real bodies look like they've been surgically digitally altered, right? And that that's not what real life sexual interactions are like, so that eventually you're raising these critical thinkers. So if and when they do encounter porn, that they can sort of like, have that context have that in the back of their minds. And maybe that will help them process what they're seeing. And this is such a new age issue, because when I was a kid to find pornography, you you had to stumble upon it. It wasn't just so easy to search something and have it show up on your computer. So not too long ago, I was looking up dogs on our computer with my kids. And we were searching boxer dogs, because that's the kind of dog I grew up with. And my kids said, What do boxer dogs look like? We searched boxer images came up men in boxer briefs, and a lot of the pictures were very suggestive. And it said, oh my goodness, what's this, and I so quickly shut that computer down. And I that was my reaction. And maybe that should have been a time I should have, you know, opened up time for dialogue with the kids. But instead, I got really embarrassed because that wasn't what I was expecting to see. And instead, I felt shocked that it's so easy to be on the computer on the internet. And for my kids to find sexually suggestive images, there's such different issues that are in our lap than my parents had to deal with. Yes, and a lot of it has to do with the digital space, right. And I'm not negative about all digital spaces, but but it does create this thick extra layer with the parenting. And as a parent, you're seeing your child day to day and you kind of know, have a sense of where they are in terms of their curiosity about things and but we forget how easy it is right for them to stumble upon this, this imagery i at the end of I do these like, you know, puberty workshops that are kids and parents together. And, and at the end, I always bring up the subject matter, because it's really important. And so and basically my message is like, when you're on the computer, like sometimes stuff pops up that you weren't looking for, right? Like you are just doing a Google search for a project school project, or you're researching something or you're watching an entertainment video and something positive, just a video pops up. And and it has nothing to do with what you were originally there for. Right. And sometimes what comes up might be something violent or confusing or have to do with people's bodies or have to do with sex and, and so the point is to encourage them to if that happens to talk to like one of their parents, and I have and the parents are there and I say what do you want your kids to tell you if this happened? And they they always say yes, you know, and then I'm like, would they get in trouble because I want the kids to hear from their parents, like they wouldn't get in trouble. Because that's what happens, right. And so I have this conversation and, and I had a mom call me after one of these groups. And she said, I'm calling to thank you. And I was like for what you know, and she and she said, that conversation about the porn. Her son who's with fifth grader told her after we all talked about as a group that two weeks previously, he had seen something pornographic violent on on his computer. And he didn't know how to talk to her about it. He was like afraid to get in trouble. He was like trying to understand what he saw. And it was like this heavy load on him because he wanted to talk about it. But he didn't know how to start the conversation. But because I brought it up, but that was like the opening. And then they talked about and then he she said he just like broke down. But then he felt so much better because he had like he had been carrying around by himself. And that's what we don't want as parents, right? You don't want to like it's not their fault that this content is out there. Right. And so we need to say if they're old enough that they're on these devices, and you're not looking over their shoulder, right? Then you need to like have this conversation like, Hey, if you see anything weird on there, right or something violent or upsetting or whatever, it just come to me I don't want you to have to like, figure that out by yourself. Just come to me, right. And now you can have a have a conversation about it. So what I'm hearing from you is just making sure that our kids know that we are approachable, that we're not going to judge them that we're not going to get them in trouble. They don't have to feel bad for having those questions and that we're a trusted resource and we're on their team, we want to help them. That's right. That's right. Because that's at the end of the day, right? As parents, it's our job to keep our kids healthy, keep them safe, and to be that like loving steady presence for them. And and this is one way to do that. Right? It's just being approachable and being their person their go to person. Well, so this is this conversation has been coming up in my house more recently because my my youngest my eight year old she's got a very curious mind. And so she was asking myself on my husband about sex and about how to make babies She's, and she looked at us incredulously and said, Wait, every time you have a baby, you have to do that. And she said, she goes, You did that to make me and she looked over at me and she said, Thank you so much mommy like that, like that must have been really. She thanked me for doing that just so I can make her because she recognised that that doesn't sound to her that didn't sound did not sound like a pleasant thing to do. So she looked at me with this very serious face and gave me a very heartfelt thank you. So it was pretty funny. That is so relations are funny. No, they're so funny. Right? And that was like, What a special moment, right? And there's going to be more special moments that come when she finally you know, that that conversation over time will evolve, right? And she'll start to, to wonder, and so when she figures out, it's not just for making babies. Right. And and that's a whole a whole new compensation now. No, I use it in my favour. I said, You're welcome. And this is why when we asked you to do chores, and I'm just getting no, these aren't, these are funny conversations. And I think, thinking of it as as a nice opportunity and feeling grateful that she felt comfortable asking those questions. I think that's a really good approach in my in my view. Yeah. And coming back to like, sort of where we started with, you know, seeing in the clinical space, like how important that is, right. And I think, to me, like that's one of the big pieces of inspiration for families is just sort of looking at the long game and realising like that. In the end, it's all worth it, that embracing the awkward is worth it. Because because it is it's going to it's going to benefit them. And then eventually they'll have hopefully, there'll be adults who you know, have physically and emotionally healthy sexual lives. And that's a good thing. That's a good thing. So Dolly, for parents that may want to use your services, I want them to understand what you do and how to find you. Okay, great. So a lot of different things. So, so I do parent coaching, like private one on one, that's one thing that parents around the subject matter utilise me for so that can, you know, usually via zoom, I also do parenting groups. So sometimes parents get together the parents of their kids friends, or their own friends who are raising children of the same age, and we pick whatever topic and we, we dig in to that. And those can be in person or, or via zoom. I do, as I mentioned, like puberty workshops. So that's usually kind of like the 10 to 12 year old range. And those are children and parents together. So I'm based in LA so I do a lot of those in person and in Los Angeles. But I do them via zoom, I just had a group where like it was a bunch of friends and they were half of them were in LA and half of them were in Taiwan, everyone spoke English, but like, you know, I do them internationally. Thanks to thanks to technologies. And then I do I do groups with teens and I have some talks that are for teens and and parents together on like, teen party culture. So there's really there's a lot of our if you go to my website, I have in the offering section, you can get a better sense of all the different types of groups and work I do. I do lots of work with schools to so and so my website is adolescence. la.com A d o l e s s o n s la.com. Or you can email me at info at adolescents LA and, and I'm on social media, mostly on Instagram at adolescents LA. And I'll make sure and tag everything and put all of your I'll put your website, your Instagram, I'll link everything in the show notes below. And I'm just curious, how do you how do your own children embrace the awkwardness of what you're doing? Do they ever comment on what you're doing for work? Oh, they comment. Yes. Luckily, they were pretty young. When I started young enough that they were like they thought it was awesome and really cool. And I actually taught my son was a little older. By the time I started doing like the puberty groups, but but for my daughter's class I did I did those groups and and she was a little tenuous about it at first but she was excited about like this business I had started so she was my cheerleader. So but it you know, I I always talk about like using teachable moments. And so I have like an abundance of teachable moments to discuss with my kids you know, confidentially I can you know share some some of the stories that I hear and and I will say that there is a balance between like sharing the teachable moments and like going a little overboard and and I am human and and i It's like my love language I Let you know, I just like to share this information. And sometimes I get the, we know that already, like you already told us and I'm like, That's okay. You'll probably hear it 100 more times, I just, you know, I love you and I want you to be safe. And so it's okay. I dig into that awkward piece as well within my own parenting. I think I think I'd much rather have a parent be an overshare than shy away from conversations. Absolutely. I agree. 100% Any final advice that you want to share for parents listening that we didn't cover? I mean, I just I think, listen, listen to your kids, we talk so much so I think just listening to them more be curious about their experiences. I think as parents we get so focused on what we're just talking about, like making sure they're aware of the risks and like warning them about things and and sometimes we forget to just like be with our kids and enjoy them and and connect over just the little stuff, right? All those enjoyable pieces of life and like the more connected you are with your kid, the easier it will be to have these more tricky conversations. Dr. Dolly Clark, thank you so much for coming on as Dr. Jessica so enjoyed our conversation. I did as well. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for listening and I hope you enjoyed this week's episode of Ask Dr. Jessica. Also, if you could take a moment and leave a five star review wherever it is you listen to podcasts. I would greatly appreciate it. It really makes a difference to help this podcast grow. You can also follow me on Instagram at ask Dr. Jessica See you next Monday.