Crafting Compelling Stories That Sell Your Offer With Marisa Corcoran

Marisa dives deep into the art of storytelling. She shares her expertise on crafting compelling stories with her Story Stripdown framework. We explore how these stories can connect more deeply with your audience, helping you sell your offers more effectively.

Get to know Marisa in the episode 'Before We Hit Record With Copy Mentor Marisa Corcoran'.

Please click here to give an honest Rating/Review for the show on iTunes! Thanks for your support!

Links mentioned in this episode:

• Listen to episode 746 where Rick talks about passing the baton to me and his new direction.
• Listen to episode 720 to get to know Kwadwo. 
• Take your email from "maybe later" to "must read now" in seconds with the 50+ Scroll-Stopping Subject Lines
• Listen to Marisa’s previous episode and get to know her

Kwadwo [QUĀY.jo] Sampany-Kessie’s Links:

• Subscribe to The Art of Online Business’s YouTube Channel 
• Book a strategy call with Kwadwo!
• Grab the Facebook Ads Lead Gen Cheat Code course to cut your lead costs and double your email list!
• Visit Kwadwo’s website for Facebook Ads help
• Say hi to Kwadwo on Instagram

Marisa’s Links:

• DM Marisa: https://www.instagram.com/mtoni/
• Listen to Marisa’s previous episode: The Definitive Guide to Rocking An Online Summit | w/ Marisa Corcoran
• Copy Mentor: The Copy Confidence Society

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey, we're back with Marisa. If you can see because you're watching on the YouTube channel, then she is there smiling. She is a copy mentor and she's the owner of the Copy Confidence Society. And here is where, if you've been listening to the previous Before we Hit Record section, where we got to talk about all things that are life-related and not necessarily business-related then you've been waiting for her to share the story stripped down, and she's going to show you how to reverse, engineer your story and pull out the more captivating stories from your life, the ones that are easier to write craft, if you will, so that you're attracting the right kind of customer to you. You can sell more of your offer. Easier to write craft, if you will, so that you're attracting the right kind of customer to you. You can sell more of your offer and, at the same time, we're going to continue to do a bit of relating that we were doing in the previous episode. So, marisa, thanks for coming back.

Speaker 2: 0:57

Oh, I'm happy to be back this is really fun. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:01

I guess it would be really bad if because technically we just recorded this episode what? Like three minutes ago, even though for the listener some time has elapsed, it's probably longer, but let's see. Ah, yes, the whole housekeeping part. If you don't know who I am, hi, I'm Kwejo. I'm the new host of the Art of Online Business podcast, and if you want to know where Rick went head podcast and if you want to know where Rick went head, down to the show notes below.

Speaker 1: 1:27

And there's two episodes there. One is where you can see what new AI project he's working on, because he's still around and still doing good things for the online business, online course creator community, and another episode is where he interviewed me and shared kind of his thought process about having me as the new host to continue the legacy of this podcast, which still is to share tips and tricks and strategies and behind-the-scenes business peaks and, of course, facebook ads goodness, so that you, the listener, especially if you're an online course creator, can scale your business up from low six figures to high six figures and, with that, happy to be back in the episode with you, marisa. We were talking a bit about the experience of, and how powerful it was about traveling First of all, taking a year to travel around the US. While you're going through this or you're completing the, the DEI coaching certification yeah, it was my.

Speaker 2: 2:27

Equity. Equity coaching certification is like what my? You know what the certification is?

Speaker 1: 2:34

yeah gotcha and I was thinking about something which is everybody comes from a different background and we really do have to. I before, like we put our lenses on when we're meeting other people. We really just kind of have to wait a second and get to know them and see where they're coming from, like why they stand for, believe what they believe and like what this all means as far as how they view the world. And so when you were sharing about this, one story was popping up in my mind Is that me or is that you?

Speaker 2: 3:11

Oh, that's me, that's my. I'm at my mom's. Yeah, I'm so used to it because I grew up with it.

Speaker 1: 3:17

Okay, wait, what is it Every hour when?

Speaker 2: 3:19

the clock goes off, it plays this music and everybody in my family has this clock my grandparents have this clock. My mom has this clock, my uncle this is when you wish upon a star yeah, but every hour it plays a different song so I forget. It's even happening every hour that it goes off because I grew up with it yeah, my grandparents had the same clock.

Speaker 2: 3:37

my uncle, dan, and his house has this clock, so every hour I'm looking to see it'll'll play. Sometimes it plays, my heart will go on like Celine Dion. I can't remember the ones that are programmed to my mom.

Speaker 1: 3:48

Okay.

Speaker 2: 3:48

Yeah, but every hour is a different song, so there you go Now.

Speaker 1: 3:51

I'm intrigued. I feel like the podcast needed some background music and like we just got a little bit of that. Is this like a grandfather clock or are we just talking like?

Speaker 2: 4:12

It's like a big circular clock, though it's a wall clock, but it's. It's not small, it's big and it has like it's actually really beautiful. It has like this floating, like hot air balloon and like the stars. It's really beautiful and it plays songs every hour at night. I think it stops. My mom would know more than me, but my grandparents had this clock. Like everybody has this clock got it.

Speaker 1: 4:25

That's so cool. I feel like I need to give my kids things that like are just like my parents gave me toys, but they also gave me things. I didn't appreciate so much at the time but now I was like I think this, this item, has so much character and it's cool that I've carried it with me yes, I, I have my grandparents' clock.

Speaker 2: 4:46

now I have it.

Speaker 1: 4:47

Whoa.

Speaker 2: 4:48

I don't have it up yet because we were traveling, as you know. But yeah, I have my grandparents' clock.

Speaker 1: 4:53

That is cool, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2: 4:54

I wanted it. I wanted to have it in my house forever.

Speaker 1: 4:57

I don't have much because we were sharing before that. Both of our parents went through divorce and so we grew up with single moms and, unfortunately, when my parents got divorced, lots of the things that they had from their parents or like in their life together just didn't make it, and so I don't have anything from my grandparents. I think I have like a couple pictures that were real pictures that I took a picture of with my phone, so to speak, and then like that's, that's it, but like as far as items, I got nothing.

Speaker 2: 5:32

I understand a little bit different. So my parents, my dad, died, so my mom's a widower, so it's a little bit different, Assuming that's, yeah so my mom is a widower, so that comes with its own.

Speaker 2: 5:44

And I say this to say like, when you were saying so, there was lots of things you know from the time that my dad died. This is before cell phones, this is before we were recording every single moment of our lives, you know. So there's not. I actually have never seen a video of my dad, which is wild, yeah, Cause my dad died in the eighties. My dad died in 1986.

Speaker 2: 6:07

So my parents didn't have their wedding filmed when I was two, so I've never seen my dad on video before and I don't have conscious memories of hearing the sound of my dad's voice. I know that I did. I was actually at a two-year-old's birthday party last weekend and I was really just looking around like this is wild, because on my second birthday my dad had just died two months prior. Wow, so at the second birthday is for my niece, and obviously my niece like knew my brother-in-law and it was really wild to be like, oh, I definitely knew my dad and had the. But then, as you know, they're not like conscious memories, like obviously my niece can hear the sound of my brother-in-law's voice and like recognizes him. Like they were doing the cake and my brother-in-law was like sitting right next to her. It was a very wild experience for me because I was like this is wild. Like my second birthday party my dad was, you know.

Speaker 2: 6:58

So I say this to say that, yeah, I'm very much a person who is nostalgic to maybe a fault I want to keep and collect, just because I felt like so many of those things from my dad I never got to have. So I'm the person where I'm like we're taking the photos. We're recording the moment. Give me the clock that plays the music. I want it. You know I'm very much that way because I don't have a lot of those things from my dad, just from the time we weren't, like you know, living on our phones then well, did they have those big gray like?

Speaker 2: 7:33

video cameras they did, but my parents didn't have their wedding videotapes and we just weren't like a big. In fact, I think there are maybe two videos, but I've never seen them and in like the moving of my grandparents and things, I don't even know where those videos are, you know.

Speaker 1: 7:49

So nothing that I've ever really seen or experienced, you know I think we're fortunate to live in the day and age we do like, where we can record so much like. Yeah, I don't, I don't have any videos of my. Actually, the only videos I have of my dad are videos from, like you know, in the past 15 years, you know after cell phones, but definitely like when him and my mom were married. That it's just some pictures.

Speaker 1: 8:19

I remember being yeah so upset I didn't have more pictures like of me growing up, of them when I was growing up, but yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:26

Yeah, for sure, for sure. So, yeah, I'm definitely like, I'll take the clock. Yes, I'll take that too. I'll figure out how to you know. Yeah, yeah, I have like a lamp that was my grandparents. Like, I'm very much like, yes, I wanna.

Speaker 1: 8:41

I'm very nostalgic, for sure, yeah nostalgia, so I'll share a different short story. We're not even going to talk about the other china story I was going to share that came, that kind of came to mind. I'll save that for another time. But speaking of something nostalgic, and then I'm going to ask you how you can tie this in with a story that, like you, would share in an email sequence or maybe in copy elsewhere. But when my daughter so she would have been younger than three, and this was while we were still living in China, before we got stuck outside of China and here in Mexico, she did speak Mandarin and we'd always do this thing before she would go to bed where.

Speaker 1: 10:21

So I guess you get a little Chinese lesson right here, but like the word for forehead is okay, and the word for nose is beads, and then the word for mouth is and so, like, every time before we went to bed, like I would trace, like my fingers around her face and like, tell her I love her, and then I would always say like, and like she knows what's coming, because I would touch her forehead, like you have to be watching us on YouTube to see this, all right, listener. And so head down to the show notes, subscribe to the YouTube channel, watch this episode. But, like I would, she knows what's coming. So it's like I touch her forehead and then, like, I would say the word for beads and I would touch her nose, and then I would touch her lip and say it's way, because the word for like mouth, I guess, is like two words, so a bar or two syllables, and so I would say the first part, so, and then she would always finish it with like a bar. You know which is short for dad, I guess it's a homonym homophone in chinese and so then I would give her a kiss and say good night.

Speaker 1: 11:30

And we did that all the time, and I had this thought, like there will be a time in my life where, like, she won't remember that anymore, and so it's always something that's near and dear to my heart and it makes me think of, like I don't know, the relationship that you have or that I have with her growing up, when she was like try not to cry super little from a period that won't really happen again in our lives, right? So, yeah, sharing that.

Speaker 1: 12:01

I am very intrigued about your story, stripped down framework and my first question is is we come to online business with so many different stories that we could communicate, Like, how are you selecting the stories that actually make it out into our what's called the written word, the written communication, and then, please like, break it down?

Speaker 2: 12:27

This is why I created the story stripped down, because people would come to me and either they were in two worlds. One was, well, I have so many ideas of stories that I could tell. How do I pick the right one. Or people would come and say, well, marisa, I don't really have any stories, or my life is boring, I don't really have anything to share, and really I mean right out the gate.

Speaker 2: 12:50

There's just two quick things I want to say is that storytelling is our oldest form of communication. It dates back to the Chauvet Caves from 30,000 years ago. This is the way that we have communicated and some of our greatest leaders or people that we've experienced, some of our greatest you know orders or leaders or people, have really tried to create change through storytelling. So I, when we were talking before before we started, like before before the recording session, I told you that I come from a very like a super Catholic family. Right, I am not myself religious or really a practicing Catholic, but you know I was raised in that environment, so I always say I'm not super religious myself, but if we think about one of our greatest leaders or people that people you know know is Jesus.

Speaker 2: 13:36

And Jesus wasn't just like, hey, be, you know, you can mess up and God will still love you. No, he tells the story of the prodigal son, sure, and instead of just saying like, yeah, if you, you know, you know, take small steps, you'll, like, you'll, be able to succeed in anything you want to succeed in, he tells the parable of the mustard seed. So Jesus is really teaching and trying to activate change through storytelling. So we storytelling works. So, really, where people will get tripped up is they'll feel like, well, I don't have stories to share or I have so many.

Speaker 2: 14:17

And really, what I'm talking about right now when I'm talking about storytelling is I'm not talking about, like, your big origin story. I'm talking about these like slice of life moments that you can share in your email newsletters, that you can share in your social posts. Right, because people make purchasing decisions based on two things. One is what you're selling, something that I want. That's your messaging. That's why we want to make sure that's clear and specific.

Speaker 2: 14:28

And then, number two are you the person that I want to do it with? Do I get a sense of your voice, your vibe, your personality, and that's where the slice of life stories can really start to create that connection with our readers or the people that are experiencing our stories, and then finding that connection back. But if I just tell people like, okay, yeah, find some more stories or figure it out, it's like, well, you would have done that by now. So this is why I created the story strip down to actually reverse engineer your storytelling so that we start from the takeaway or the teachable moment or start with your audience and we kind of work backwards to uncover the story. That is that you can use for this. So that's where that four part that I can walk you through and then if you want Quajo.

Speaker 2: 15:13

We can use you as an example if you're down for it.

Speaker 1: 15:16

Hey, all right, I'm down for it so walk us through the framework. I know the listener is intrigued and I'm still a little stuck. Life can be sliced up so many different ways, so how are we deciding even what slice of life? The?

Speaker 2: 15:29

first thing you want to ask yourself is you want to start from that teachable moment place. So something that we talk about in the Copy Confidence Society is we help you kind of uncover what we call like your themes or your motifs, like the things that you want to keep going back to inside of your business. So you want to first uncover, like a teachable, like what is that takeaway or teachable moment? I'll kind of do this, I'll give, I'll use myself as an example and then we'll do do one with you. So the first thing is like what might be that theme or teachable moment that you want to share? This could be for an email, for a social post, what is that? Then you want to ask yourself okay, what is that's one Step.

Speaker 2: 16:05

Two is OK, what's in the way, what's stopping your reader or the person that's experiencing this from just kind of understanding that teachable moment or just being like, oh yeah, makes sense, I'm going to go do that thing or I get that thing. And then you want to ask yourself OK, what, what might be like? And within that part is like okay, what might be that feeling, what's the underlying thing that's stopping them? And then the third part is you got to take off your marketing hat for a second, for this part, and you got to put on your creative hat. And this is where you want to ask yourself okay, when have I ever felt that emotion or objection or thing?

Speaker 1: 16:47

And now.

Speaker 2: 16:47

Often it might not come from your zone of genius or what your business is on. It may, but it might not. It might come from another area of your life. That's where the slice of life comes in. It might not even be about you. It might be about someone else in your life, or a client or someone that you know. So this is where we want to like think for a second. What is the answer and this is where we often take that leap of faith is like honing in on that story and choosing it, because done is always better than perfect, and the more of those stories that we can share, the more connection that we start to create. And then the fourth step is then we put that together, we choose that story and we create that moment, and we create that moment.

Speaker 2: 17:45

So an example of this that I like to tell is that when so I was, I was going to be on my friend's podcast actually premiering. At that time, we had our brand new lead magnet about the 50 plus scroll stopping subject lines.

Speaker 2: 17:50

So one of the themes that I always go back to that I'm always talking about is emails how to make your emails stronger, and so one of the things that I always talk about is like you can write the best email in the world, but if it doesn't get opened or someone doesn't see it, then, well, we miss out on all the goodness.

Speaker 2: 18:02

So it's like, okay, what stops people from just understanding that, like why their subject lines are so important? So some of the things I walked myself through were like, well, they might feel overwhelmed. There's so many choices. Like how do they choose the right subject line? You know, they might feel like just that overwhelm of choice is what I really kept going back to. How do they know how long should it be? Do they put an emoji in, do they not? You know, like all the things that stop them from doing it. Do they do all caps, do they not? Right, where does the preview text come in? All that?

Speaker 2: 18:32

So then I said, okay, has there ever been a time where I felt that kind of overwhelm of choice? And actually something that when I then took my marketing hat off and put my creative hat on, it reminded me of a story, of a conversation I'd actually had with my mother-in-law. So my in-laws reminded me of a story, of a conversation I'd actually had with my mother-in-law. So my in-laws reminded me of my in-laws, while everyone else that they knew was like selling their homes when their kids, you know, were out of the house, and like moving to Florida and like downsizing, my in-laws kind of did the opposite. They built their dream home. Like they built their dream. This place is stunning, specifically their kitchen. It's beautiful. And I remember walking. I remember walking into this kitchen saying to my mother-in-law like how did you create this kitchen? I mean it like it looked like it was out of like a pinterest board, like industrial, like farmhouse chic, and I was like, how did you do this?

Speaker 2: 19:24

and I remember my mother-in-law saying well, I was overwhelmed at first but, they like a they let me choose between like three templates of what this kitchen could look like. I chose the second one. We customized it and boom, here it is, and that's the story that I chose. So the email basically opens up with me saying you know, there I was standing in my in-laws kitchen. You know, light cabinets that look like, you know, farmhouse chic, a sink so big I could bathe in it. And as I stood there, you know, with my Earl Grey tea, I thought, wow, my in-laws are absolute ballers.

Speaker 2: 20:02

And I remember asking my you know, I remember saying to my mother-in-law how did you create this place? And she said you know, it was overwhelming at first, but they gave me three layouts. I chose one and then I customized from there. And then the email goes on for me to say you know, in that moment I realized, like, how helpful a template or a formula can be on your way to creating the greatest of all time kitchen, all time kitchen. The same is likely to go for your copy. So the reader, I say the same is likely for your copy, especially when it comes to your subject lines. So I want to offer you a way to have that template so that you can create your like greatest subject lines.

Speaker 2: 20:39

And here and I'm going to talk about it on my friend's podcast. Today. I'm going to talk about the 50 plus scroll stopping subject lines.

Speaker 1: 20:45

All right.

Speaker 2: 20:46

So I use that story. That's way more interesting and engaging than me just being like hey, I'm on a podcast today and we're talking about subject lines and here's the link and go listen to it.

Speaker 1: 20:55

I can see that now, so walk me through again the four steps. The first one is the teachable moment right. Starting with the teachable moment, okay, and then the second is what's holding somebody back from learning from the teachable moment? Okay, and then the second is what's holding somebody back from learning from the teachable moment?

Speaker 2: 21:11

Yeah, from just taking the teachable moment and running with it.

Speaker 1: 21:14

Okay, taking it and running, applying, applying it. And then the third part is, if I'm understanding this right, how they feel because they are not taking that teachable moment. And then you're relating that to how you felt, like a similar feeling that you felt in your life, yep, exactly, yep.

Speaker 2: 21:32

That that part about their feeling kind of goes within step number two. And then step number three is okay, when have I ever felt that way? And is there a story? When have I ever felt that way? And then the fourth part is really putting the the two together gotcha okay so, for example, if you're up for it I'm what I have some ideas.

Speaker 2: 21:51

So if there's a recent you know no wrong answers, but like an upcoming email, you need to write, or a social post or something, what might be a teachable moment or a thing that you really want to talk about or hone in with your audience.

Speaker 1: 22:04

Well, let's say I have to write an email to promote a guest episode that, like I did with somebody else and we were talking about Facebook ads and testing actually on their podcast- Okay, so testing on their podcast.

Speaker 2: 22:19

So what I'm hearing you say is the importance of testing your ads, correct?

Speaker 1: 22:22

Yeah, this is what came to mind when you were sharing.

Speaker 2: 22:25

Yeah. So what do you think stops people from being able to just be like oh Kwejo, got it, I need to. I got to test my ads. Well, I got to test my ads.

Speaker 1: 22:39

Well, I feel like let's put it in the context of a launch it's very easy to do what has worked before and with your launch budget it's like tests can go wrong, so you don't necessarily want to test a bunch of different ad copy or ad creative, and then also time is limiting, so it's like not guaranteed that the test works, but then it also takes more energy and resources to test.

Speaker 2: 23:01

And so what do you think is that underlying emotion? There too, like you know, it takes, like you're saying, a lot of energy and time, while you've used something in the past, so why wouldn't we just go with that? Or it's risky. And so what do you think is kind of underneath that for people?

Speaker 1: 23:17

Well, for me it would be. Can I say it's fear Sure If something goes wrong or if it doesn't work out and then I feel maybe silly or like I wasted my time.

Speaker 2: 23:30

Totally so, that fear of like the silly or wasting your time. So then you ask yourself and you know we're kind of zipping through this for the sake of you? Know or time here, so we go okay. So okay. Has there been a time? Can you think of a time in your own life where you have felt that fear of my gosh, if I take this risk and it doesn't work out? And is this, the, is this truly the right step for me?

Speaker 1: 23:54

so when you were sharing I couldn't think of a specific time, but I thought of multiple times and that would be around the dinner or around the meal table in china, especially when I was treating, when I was treating guests, and how my mind put this together was you treat a guest, you want to make a good impression, and you want to make a good impression so you go and get the food, because many of the restaurants traditional Chinese style restaurants we would go to had so many different dishes and we would just end up ordering, like my wife and I, the same things because, like we knew we worked, like we knew that somebody who was new to China, you know, especially if they were coming there for business purposes like they hadn't tasted certain things and like we kind of understood the Western palette, we would just get the same things.

Speaker 1: 24:39

But then we never experimented with other stuff and we never realized, like, especially at this one restaurant that was our favorite, we never realized there were so many good dishes that we were missing out on, until we started sampling other things from the menu.

Speaker 2: 24:54

Yeah, and so that could be the story that you tell. Is maybe that time where you decided to, when you realize that there were these other options on that menu.

Speaker 1: 25:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:04

Right and the sampling and what happened for you and like expanding that like culinary experience, and then you can connect that back to your audience by saying and this is where that segue comes in, where very often I will even say to people why am I telling you this, why did I just tell you this story? Sometimes people think they have to have the most perfect transition and I always talk about you, don't. Sometimes you can say like, why am I telling you this? Or when this happened, or when I thought about this, it made me think of you and here's why. Or when I expanded that culinary experience, I was able to experience this dish, this dish and this dish.

Speaker 1: 25:41

So I guess the why am I telling you this is because I never experimented. When I was entertaining guests, I went with what worked. But when I was out with my friends, we experimented and tried new things. And so to me, my mind relates it back to testing and ads. Because it's high stakes when you launch, but testing can help you discover ad copy and different graphics, you know, or reels, combinations that work a lot better and lower your cost per lead. But maybe, like me when I did it with my friends, you would test in a lower stakes environment, like with your lead magnet that has, you know, similar messaging to your launch anyway, or helps people with a problem that is on the way to the problem that your main offer can solve and thus is related to your launch. And so you do the testing in a lower stakes environment. Like I tried new dishes with my friends. Some were great, others, because it was China were not so great.

Speaker 2: 26:38

Not so great, Right, so being able to share that with them. Like some dishes like and the more specific we can get, the better. Like some dishes like this dish, superb.

Speaker 2: 26:47

So, glad that I did, and other dishes like and you can put parentheses like this. I wish I would have skipped, you know. So how can you have this low stakes testing when it comes to your ads Tune into our latest episode where we're going to break down testing for your ads? When is a good time to? When? Is it not all that? All live on today's episode?

Speaker 1: 27:07

Boom, that Okay, all right, sounds good.

Speaker 1: 27:13

But but, how often do you share, how often can you reshare the same slice of life story? Because for me that took. You were here, you were helping me, right, so it was relatively easy. If I was by myself, this would take a long time to figure it out. So how often can I rehash one story in different ways, versus like do you have a process for pulling out the other stories that could relate to what you want to communicate around, these teachable moments inside of your business? Because it seems like time consuming for me.

Speaker 2: 27:47

Yeah, it's a great question. So what we talk about in the Copy Confidence Society is walking yourself through these steps. So in fact it didn't take that much time at all and I gave you an example. But then you very quickly were like, oh, this reminds me of when I was in China and we would entertain for guests and I would like boom within no time at all. So often I tell people like it's likely the first story you think of is the story that it should be. We can get so caught up in like, oh my gosh, what could be this story, could be this story.

Speaker 2: 28:18

Well, it's not the last email you're gonna write, it's not the last social post you're gonna write, so likely the first one that you think of is the one that it should be if you're walking yourselves through the steps okay, and let's like trust in on that and then let's carve that story, so a way that we talk about then being able to carve and do so without it being so time consuming is actually something that I learned from my former life as an actor. So when I was an actor, you were an actor. Yeah, I was an actor for a really long time a really long time. So most of my approach to copy really comes from my time as an actor.

Speaker 2: 28:48

So, when I was an actor, you a very famous acting teacher named Uta Hagen, very famous book that she writes about acting and it's all. How can you create real life moments on stage, like how can you reenact those moments? So she would give you these exercises in the book like hey, if you're in New York City and you're waiting for the subway, like you step forward, you look to the left, you look to the right, maybe you pace back and forth, like so that if you're on stage you can reenact that moment. And the way that she teaches you to kind of call back on moments is to ask yourself through the senses what did I hear, what did I see, what did I smell, what did I taste? In the same way, in the story stripped down, this is how we help people then carve out that moment, ask yourself what did I see, what did I hear, what did I taste?

Speaker 2: 29:37

And if you can, if you can drop into two of the senses, you've told like enough of the story. So, for example, when I told the story about my mother-in-law, I was like there, I was standing in the kitchen. What did I see? Light cabinets, like you know, the latest farmhouse chic that. The huge sink, so big I could bathe in it. You know I remember thinking how did I feel? Wow, my in-laws are absolute, like they're the greatest of all time, you know. So if we can hit like two of the senses, we've hit that moment. Then we can go back and say what you know, what am I telling you about? Oh, there was this time when my in-laws re, you know, revamped their home. Then you can go back and tell a little bit more of the exposition. But dropping your reader into that moment by choosing two of the senses really helps so that you can like create kind of this like micro story. You don't feel like you have to tell this like huge, long story two senses.

Speaker 2: 30:31

Okay, so even like where you were saying keijo, you were like, you know, when you were saying, later on in the conversation, when you were sharing, you were like, yeah, some dishes, you know what did I taste like this one was awesome, but this one wasn't, you know, giving the specificity of those dishes you know, and dropping them in that moment of you and your wife being there, and then you can say you know this, you know, back when we lived in China, we would, you know, educate for educate, we'd entertain for guests, and it was really scary to kind of step out of the comfort zone of the things.

Speaker 2: 31:04

we knew that would work. But with our friend, you know, then you can tell a little bit more of what you're talking about. But you can like drop them in that moment to start by choosing two of those senses Wow, to start, because that was something else that jumped out at me.

Speaker 1: 31:19

I believe you said in your email that you started with the story first, as then right out of the gate after the subject line, and then you went into why does this matter?

Speaker 2: 31:32

Yes, yes, always, always, so even for you, quajo, you would start by saying you know, even if it was like you know I'll never forget, when I was living in China, like you start with a story, you know we would enter, you know we would entertain for guests, and even if you could drop them into, like that one moment of you being at the, and even another way you could start it is being at the restaurant with your, with your wife, on the day. You know, there we were. Finally today, we were willing to like step out of our comfort zone and we tried this dish and we were like, why haven't we done this before?

Speaker 1: 32:08

Okay.

Speaker 2: 32:10

And then you can share, like what you know. I'm telling you this because back when we lived in China, when we would entertain, you know, but with our friends, we were more likely to do it and we're glad that we did. And you may feel this way when it comes to testing for ads.

Speaker 1: 32:22

Wow, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 32:25

So we always lead with the story first.

Speaker 1: 32:27

Lead with the story first. How does that relate to the subject line? Because it's outside of this episode, but subject lines are also super difficult for me. So now I've got a framework to have a good story that relates to a teachable moment and kind of expresses or communicates the feeling that I had, that I believe my potential clients or customers would have, because they're not making it through that teachable moment.

Speaker 2: 32:58

How do we tie that in with the subject line? So your subject line. There's three different ways to look at it. Your subject line could still be what we call. I call it the Cosmo concept because I think, like the cover of magazines are really set up for you to.

Speaker 1: 33:07

Cosmo.

Speaker 2: 33:08

Yeah, like Cosmo Magazine, women's Health, golf Digest, runner's World, they're all set up for you to be intrigued, to like open it up and read it. So you could still have. You know, you know how to test for your, your facebook ad, the best way to test for your facebook ads in 2024. That could still be the subject line, that very direct, like how to, or the top three ways to test for your next facebook ad. That can still be the subject line because you're, you're, you're not baiting, bait and switching them, you're telling the story and then you're going to, you're going to give them that. So you can still have a subject line that's like clear and direct. Then other times you can also play with having a subject line that's a little bit more outside the box. That's a little bit you know what this dish like, what's the name of one of these dishes?

Speaker 1: 33:55

oh, that's just one of the ones that we tried. It's called whoopie la jiao. It stands for like let's call it, tiger skin pepper, something, so you could even say like what tiger skin pepper taught me about facebook ads?

Speaker 2: 34:07

now don't you think people would open, that? They'd be like what we call?

Speaker 1: 34:10

that? Yeah, that's crazy. I would feel like that's wild.

Speaker 2: 34:13

Why is he saying this? That's called the international man of mystery. Subject line like what? Or? It could even be like tiger skin pepper and your facebook ads yeah or you know.

Speaker 2: 34:24

So that's, that's a subject line you could try and see and you just you start to see what your audience do they open more of those cosmo concepts? Do they open more of the international man of mystery? You can play with it and see, but I always write the email first and you can totally have that very straightforward subject line and still tell the story because you're, you're getting there. You're saying, why am I telling you this? Hey, today on the podcast we talked about these low stakes way to test for Facebook ads and get the results that you want to see. Click over here for the episode. So you're still doing that. But you can also play around with using some stuff from the story to kind of tease. And then, of course, you can talk about preview text too, like what comes even before. But in your subject line you can play with both of them and see what happens when you do this. You could test it and try both and see which ones get more opens.

Speaker 1: 35:14

So I'm like over here wondering please, for my benefit, also for the listener, though now that we've heard and begun to like digest the story stripped down framework, do you have something that helps us with our subject lines?

Speaker 2: 35:28

Yeah, so it's so meta Cause I was using that as an example. But yeah, we have what's called the 50 plus scroll stopping subject lines. And I give you three formulas the Cosmo concept, the Darlene and Clark method which we didn't talk about here, but that's on there and the international man of mystery. So I give you three formulas and then I give you like over 50 so that you can plug and play yourself, and I pair each of them with a few emails so you can see the whole thing in action.

Speaker 1: 35:55

That is what I need. Like to see the whole picture, so to speak, subject line plus the framework, and you have that in emails too, okay, cool.

Speaker 2: 36:02

Yeah, I give you emails and I show you you can use it for social posts. And in fact, this fall I was at a conference and two people came up to me and they're like, oh my gosh, I use the 50 plus scroll, swapping subject lines all the time. I was like, oh my gosh, that's so cool, I'm so glad it's like useful and helpful for you. You know, that's my goal. But yeah, I still sometimes bring it up too. I'm like wait, I need what do I teach? What the heck? What the heck do I tell people to do? I got to do it too.

Speaker 1: 36:26

Yeah Right, what's the link for that?

Speaker 2: 36:28

It's marisacorcorancom forward. Slash subject lines Simple, easy.

Speaker 1: 36:33

MarisaKorgerincom forward slash subject lines All one word. And I of course will link that up in the show notes. So I'm going to get it now, but then the listener can get it, as they now know about it down there.

Speaker 2: 36:47

Yeah, great, great.

Speaker 1: 36:49

Cool. Well, I want to thank you for sharing this. As somebody who struggles with the written word, maybe I should have quit speaking that, but as somebody in the past who has had a challenge with the written word in his business, I greatly appreciate this framework and how you touched on subject lines, because it makes it seem like I can do this, like I can go back and open up my welcome sequence that delivers my lead magnet and have a fighting chance at communicating what needs to be communicated so more people can get help, you know written.

Speaker 2: 37:21

That's not what people are going for. They're going for that connection, the story, that connection. In fact, sometimes, when it's too perfectly written, we lose that kind of that connection with our readers. So, being able to trust in that story in the way that you tell it and having I know it's like so specific of a tip, but like just having more fun with it because you'll be surprised by what your readers connect with or what they see, and then you just start to kind of test them, as we talked about the importance of testing, start to see what kinds of stories is my audience gravitating towards? What kind of subject lines do they open more than others? Are we getting more clicks from this, as opposed to just being like, hey, today there's a new episode on the podcast.

Speaker 2: 38:20

And just start to see what your audience is gravitating towards Well said, well said.

Speaker 1: 38:21

I think we're going to end here, thank you. Thanks for having me. Thank you for taking the time to come back again, but also to take the time to record these two episodes. I think they're really good and definitely worth the listener listening to, so I appreciate you being here.

Speaker 2: 38:35

Great yeah, thank you, this is really fun.

Speaker 1: 38:37

All right. Well, until the next time you hear from me or see from me, be blessed and we'll chat soon. Goodbye, bye.