The Art of Online Business

Close 100% of Your Discovery Calls with Caryn Gillen

• Kwadwo [QUĀY.jo] Sampany-Kessie • Episode 816

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Caryn has this amazing knack for closing 100% of her discovery calls without really having to sell. In the last 15 minutes she shares that funnel. Before that we talk about how she makes the invisible visible, turning hidden results and experiences into messaging that naturally attracts the right people. 


Get to know Caryn in the episode 'Before We Hit Record With Caryn Gillen'.



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Speaker 1:

Welcome back to another episode of the Art of Online Business. And if you can see me, then you can see us, because I'm here with Karin and she helps coaches make their businesses as great as their coaching. And in a moment you're going to get to hear some really good advice and strategies. Because she shocked me, like Karin, when you told me that you don't get any consults. That don't say yes. I'm like that's a hundred percent closing rate on a discovery call, strategy call, whatever you want to call that call to get a client. And I'm like okay, this I want to ask some more questions. And you told me it was because, well, you're going to share on this episode how to make hidden experiences and results visible. That way you don't have to sell. That way, your messaging and content is attracting the right people to you. And I'm like this, obviously because you're a coach, applies to coaches, because you coach coaches and work with coaches. But I also think it applies to somebody who has an online course or a membership but does say one-on-one strategy calls at a rate. So I'm excited to talk about that, me too. Thank you, yeah, before we talk about that, though, if my voice or face is new to you listener.

Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm Quajo. I'm the new host of the Art of Online Business and if you're like, where the heck did Rick go, head down to the show notes below. There's two links there. One's to an episode where you can find out where Rick went. Another is to an episode where he interviews me and you can find out why the heck I'm the host of the Art of Online Business right now. And if you're coming to this episode from the before we hit record segment where karen and I just got to know each other cool, good to see you again. And if you haven't heard that episode, it's a pretty cool episode head down to the show notes below and click there and listen to that episode after you finish listening to this one.

Speaker 1:

It it was my desire, my heart, when I started this segment before we hit record, just to be able to actually meet other online business owners, because I'm here down in Mexico singing that song to myself, lonely. I am still lonely, right, or maybe it was the hip hop version, but really I'm like I'm behind three monitors and that's all I see, and I see my team on the zoom call and I get glimpses of like these super cool people because I'm having guests on the podcast and doing the meet people and partner up and collab thing, but then I don't really get to know them and I'm like I miss. Like Karin, for real, I missed, like you worked in restaurants. Like me too, I missed the job and the I will admit that I was not 100% productive at the any day job for the whole time. Right, right, who is who is okay? Glad that you're in that camp too and you're willing to be transparent.

Speaker 1:

So what I missed a lot ever since this whole pandemic thing and working from home was that all of the exchanges are transactional, there is no BS. There is no BS and actually all of the conversations that are worthless or amount to nothing actually amount to a whole lot. They amount to relationships. You know, and I miss that, yeah, I miss that from having a regular job with people you know, with regular people, actually Real humans, real humans, right? Are you a real human? Yeah, definitely. Do you have a family job with people you know, with regular people? Actually, because real humans, real humans, right? Are you a real human?

Speaker 2:

yeah, do you?

Speaker 1:

have a family, yeah I didn't just land here.

Speaker 1:

Really, though, it's like real humans, because I don't know, I was just. I do know, but I can't remember her name. Oh, this is gonna. This is, at any rate. I was recording an episode two episodes ago with a really cool lady. I can't remember her name, but she said something that struck me, which was that she feels like it's taboo to talk about your family on a podcast, and she had thanked me for asking me about hers, and I was like, yeah, you know, in lots of podcast episodes we don't talk about our families, we don't talk about our beliefs, we don't talk about kids, we don't even talk about, like, what we really like to do. It's just business, business, business, or coaching, coaching, coaching, like how are we relating? And so that kind of all went into starting the before we hit record session.

Speaker 2:

I like it.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for being here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thanks for having me and for having all of me, not just the business nugget that you wanted to come in and get for your podcast, like I think that is worth a lot.

Speaker 1:

I believe so too. So we had this good before we hit record session, and then, before we hit record for this second session, we started talking about cool stuff too. So we're going to get to this strategy that makes the invisible visible as far as coaching goes, and the success that, when made visible, can get your content and messaging selling for you and we'll. I don't know if I can aspire to a hundred percent.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if you want to either, but we'll get there, okay.

Speaker 1:

All right, interesting, but before we get to that, we were talking about traveling and then that led to weddings and you were going to say something about your wedding and did you say it was a Norwegian wedding.

Speaker 2:

I had Norwegian themes to my wedding. I grew up in Alaska's little Norway, that's what it's called and my relatives some of my relatives from Norway came over for the wedding. Whoa, all right, yeah, and I did live in Ballard, which has a strong Norwegian component to it as well. I grew up in a fishing village, so yeah, I got married on a boat that I had worked on all through college to pay for my undergraduate degree, and it was a blast.

Speaker 1:

You got married on a fishing boat.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, not like a yacht. We're talking about a 76-foot built-in 1940s in Tacoma. The name of the boat is the Tacoma, and I worked on there for four summers, and so that boat and two other boats that are similar in age, old wooden boats all three of us went out to the sound and rafted up.

Speaker 2:

And I had my husband flying in on a float plane with his brothers. I like surprised him and set up a tour where they like went and flew over the glacier and then landed and had this like massive entrance. Later on people told me you know, it's really the bride who's supposed to have the great entrance, went and flew over the glacier and then landed and had this like massive entrance. Later on people told me you know, it's really the bride who's supposed to have the great entrance and I was like you're right.

Speaker 1:

Like all I did was sit in the folks all, or I was like up in the pilot house on my way out yeah, but I mean you set it up the way you wanted it to be and so apparently you wanted him to have the cool entrance yeah, I mean I didn't want to have that entrance, I'd already taken that to her, but they had a good time wow, okay, so how many people were in attendance on the boat?

Speaker 2:

there were 135 of us on the three boats, so split between three big back decks, what?

Speaker 1:

how, how so? So you got married on a boat and both parties were split between the other two boats and your boat yeah, so fishing boats aren't like yachts or whatever that have these huge cabins.

Speaker 2:

They have the cabins up front and then big open back decks. So we just had the big open back decks lined up with all these chairs and everybody fit and could see and all that stuff.

Speaker 1:

Oh, so like side to side, yeah, yeah, and then, and you're in the middle, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was in the middle, okay, all right, cool.

Speaker 1:

I guess that means if, like, one family gets out of line, you can just kind of wink at the captain and he starts driving them away. Yeah, anywhere remotely as unique as that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I hadn't really either, and you know, it's a rainforest up there too, and it was this amazing week of weather. Everyone was sunburned. Like people still talk about it this was 15 years ago, they still talk about the weather and like how many of the church ladies were praying for the weather to be good that day and how it all came together Like it was. It was pretty magical, wow.

Speaker 1:

I mean in that that that is, I would say, such a blessed experience in that area of the world to be out in the water and have sun, people getting sunburned, wow, okay, what month was this? You said 15 years.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it'll be 15 years in June.

Speaker 1:

Hey, it'll be 15 years for us in May May 23rd Awesome.

Speaker 2:

Soon Happy anniversary.

Speaker 1:

Well, happy early anniversary to you too, right? So we were on the same wavelength fishing boat. See, what's going to happen is is we're just going to keep connecting like we were in the previous episode, and the listener is like but when are you going to?

Speaker 2:

tell me all the books. Can we talk about business now please? And the listener is like but when are you going to tell me all the books, can?

Speaker 1:

we talk about business now, please. So why don't we just make a hard segue into the meat of the episode, or at least the part that I teased at the beginning of the episode, though I do want to know how could you ever survive on a fishing boat working Like that sounds?

Speaker 2:

so difficult and hard. I mean, I think there are hard parts to it. I think one of the things as a female in a fishing boat is a lot of people having higher expectations of you than of dudes. The benefit like if you're a woman on a boat, you have to be better than the men on the boat and at things are people like they're already expecting you to not pull your weight. So they, you know.

Speaker 2:

It's like oh yeah, so, and you have to cook. If you're the girl, you have to also, so you do everything and you cook. Oh, wow, all right, but I lucked out. I was on a really nice family boat and probably half of southeast alaska still thinks that the captain is my dad, even though he was not, but he did marry us out on his boat, so he's a very important person in my life still, wow.

Speaker 1:

Was this crabbing? Was it fishing? Was it?

Speaker 2:

This was salmon tendering for seine fishery, and I've done dungeon-esque crabbing black cod, halibut. And then I went up to Bristol Bay, which is way further north in Alaska, and did skill netting for sockeye Dang, so I've only seen boating like on TV.

Speaker 1:

though I did have one friend. His name was Dustin Zoda he's still alive, so it is Dustin Zoda and he would go up to Alaska on the summers and he would tell me what I think are horror stories. But what, what kind? You're gonna have to tell me what kind of boating he was doing. But he had to put on like a wetsuit and the thing over his head and he was on the seafloor with a tube. I think was a term called dredging or he was doing.

Speaker 2:

It was either sea cucumbers or something else. It was basically a vacuum he said yeah, whatever he was catching.

Speaker 1:

It was vacuuming effectively up off the floor so like they weren't super far out. But yeah, he was underwater in a suit and a tank in pitch black, basically walking around and he said these huge eels would like come by and bump him. Can you talk like more concretely about what I'm kind of doing, the third-party scene on? Like what are these things called? He said they were really big and since you couldn't see, it was kind of scary because they would like brush up against you. Like what is he talking about?

Speaker 2:

I've heard of the sea lions coming and messing with divers, but the eels, I don't know about the eels.

Speaker 1:

Maybe it was sea lions. I think it was eels is what he was saying. That sounds really freaky. It's not like something I would never want to do, whatever animal was bumping into him while he's like I wouldn't want to be there with nothing, like my mind wouldn't play tricks on me and I don't know. Yeah, you see the movies and well, you know how they work. Black people usually die first when it comes to these horror movies, or yeah, I think so don't want to go out underwater coaching we're going to talk about.

Speaker 1:

We're going to talk about coaching because so can we start with how you're getting 100% close rate?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

What goes into that?

Speaker 2:

Well, one thing I'm not doing is I'm not generating a bunch of cold leads, right? So if I don't generate a bunch of cold leads, I don't have a bunch of people showing up on the phone who don't know what I do or how I do it or what it's like, so that in itself, I think, illuminates a lot how I do it or what it's like. So that in itself, I think, illuminates a lot. I don't get a ton of consultations because people tend to wait to hop on the phone with me until they know they want to work with me. Okay, so I don't know exactly what that's about. If it's my energy or whatever, I think a lot of times people hire us for our energy. Like you notice, I'm pretty calm A lot of people hire me to bring that calm in.

Speaker 2:

But I think one of the things that I do and I'm always trying to figure out is because we work in these invisible arts is how do I bring what actually happens behind closed doors confidentially and bring it out onto the front stage so that people can see it and feel it and understand it, versus me trying to write good enough copy to talk about a transformational experience.

Speaker 2:

it versus me trying to write good enough copy to talk about a transformational experience. So I on my podcast, I bring people on and I coach them. So like one of the ways people can feel out what it's like to work with me is I'll be like hey, do you want to just come on my podcast and I'll coach you on that? And it's free and you get like a 30 minute coaching session and you can say what you do with your business and get that little bit of publicity if you want it, and you can have the free coaching and sometimes those people become my clients.

Speaker 1:

That seems like such a no brainer, like when you, when I had asked you and you like, responded about what we could talk about. How do we make the hidden experience and results visible? My mind just made up this complex thing that you probably were going to share. You know about, I don't know, taking and transcribing a session and chat, gpt-ing it to get the right messaging and put it, and you're just like I just have free consulting or coaching sessions on the podcast, right, and I have a freebie that's 30 days of powerful questions.

Speaker 2:

Coaching is questions, right. So I one day I got on Voxer and I just did a flow and I asked all these questions, thought about like my ideal client, and I created. This whole flow turned out to be 30. And so I put that. So audio or written people can go in their email. One day, like every day, they get one question to answer and at the end you're going to know a lot more than at the start. And so they're getting to experience what is it like to have somebody ask me big questions and, more importantly, what is it like for me to be held accountable to answer them. So that's another example.

Speaker 1:

The other one is like post a powerful question, a little image on Instagram or whatever people can answer it. Oh, like in stories, I think I'm going to have to get this freebie. That's not the one that you said you wanted to share.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I have the other freebies, just a lot about the five ways to do this and I give examples and I'm like the therapist, Nedra Tawab she's really good at this Like she's always talking about these therapeutic modalities and things she does with clients, but she's bringing it to the people in her Instagram stories and her reels all the time.

Speaker 1:

So there's the answer to our question Make the results visible, make the hidden experience visible by doing a free session.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, cause here's the other thing If you're, if you're a coach or you're a consultant and you're in this, we deliver these one-on-one, whatever kind of services. So much of online marketing is directed at people who are selling information. I'm not selling information, I'm selling transformation. So I need to make sure that my marketing gets that transformation. I can't go put out a listicle, I can't go put out like I'm gonna teach, teach, teach, teach, teach, and then you show up on a phone call with me and all I do is ask you questions. That's gonna be like a bait and switch.

Speaker 1:

It's intriguing the simple way you describe this. I couldn't figure it out on my own back when I was deciding who to focus on working with as a Facebook ad manager Though what happened is, I never was the best at getting results for a coach and then I figured it out later. It's that the language of ads, you know an ad copy tends to be like a concrete result, or it's like what's the core problem, and then like what are frustrations of that problem?

Speaker 1:

How does the solution that, like, we sell, serve the people who have that problem? And I realized, oh, that's why, like, I can't quite do as good of a job for coaches At least there's great ads managers that can work with coaches I never was able to get that great of results. And so when you said that, I was like how do you take what can be a transformational process for people with a myriad of different needs and tell that, yeah, it's awkward. That was more just a question. I don't know if it needed an answer per se, but that's. That's the challenge that, like, I had, and you figured it out. So another question that I'm curious about, because this would help anybody listening. You can do it in coaching. What does your Instagram content look like then? You're not reposting 30-minute podcast sessions to Instagram, but in a world where most listeners they know you want to be able to get your messaging dialed in on Instagram to attract the right kind of person. How do you do the Instagram thing? Coaching coaches.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the way I do Instagram is. Usually I will think about the coaches that I'm already working with. I will pick a theme that's coming up in all the sessions. I'll grab one idea that I just shared in a group coaching and I'll just get on and do that live or turn it into a reel. So I'm taking what seems relevant right now and just sharing it. So if you were my client, a lot of the things I'm saying on my reels are what I would be saying to you.

Speaker 1:

If they were your client. A lot of the things that you say on the reels is what you would say, so I just treat everyone as my client.

Speaker 2:

Basically, Like you get on my podcast, I'm like hi, I'm your host and your coach. Like you're here, I'm coaching you. Now You're in my inbox, you're getting my newsletters. I'm sending questions. I'm sending like ways for you to have greater awareness of yourself.

Speaker 1:

You follow me on social media. I'm going to talk to you like you're my client. Okay, all right. That that is. It is so clear and so simple the strategy. I guess it is when I say it like that it really it really is. I feel like we can make Instagram or make a podcast, or let's call it just sales and marketing so complicated, but I'm I want to take part of this element and maybe cause for my podcast. I was doing something called funnel fixing.

Speaker 1:

I was doing it more maybe several months ago where on an episode I would dive into the top of somebody's funnel or maybe to the middle point and just kind of dissect it and give my insights and my thoughts. But then I never thought, oh, I could do this with somebody. Live yeah. So, oh, I could do this with somebody live yeah, so oh, that could be fun. It could be fun. Now I'm thinking can I give somebody like a consultation on their ads live?

Speaker 2:

You can.

Speaker 1:

You can totally do it. Oh okay, wow, that was confident and a quick response.

Speaker 2:

Well, think about it Like if you do that and you have all these people listening, they're going to, because you're getting so specific into one person, they're going to be able to find themselves in the story. It's like have you ever read a memoir where you didn't, in some way or another, fall in love with the person?

Speaker 1:

I have never read a memoir. You caught me off guard.

Speaker 2:

Oh my God, you got to read a memoir because it's so weird, it can be any memoir of any person. Well, as long as they're like a decent writer. You read it and you're like you just have this sense of love for them because it's a human life. It's a human like their struggle there. You know whatever was going on for them. I think it's the same thing Like when I coach one person and you get to watch it. You can't help but translate it and like get into it. So if you do it with a funnel, I'm imagining it's the same thing.

Speaker 1:

Now I'm going to have to take the leap and attempt not attempt, just do it Find somebody who I could, because I do so many consultations with people's Facebook ads where we just hop into ad manager and it's like for me it's easy, for them it's it's worth paying for it, you know. And so to share that on the podcast All right, okay, I've learned. I'm here as the host and you're the guest. I'm learning the most. So cool, okay, all right.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think you said the magic word of like it's for me to hop into ads manager.

Speaker 1:

It's so easy and that's for me to hop in and just coach, like I can just coach anybody anywhere, anytime, in my pajamas, on the side of a mountain. I don't care, I'm like, I'm in. I'm going to ask like, what does your discovery call? What do you call them? First of all, Consultation calls Consultation call.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes I don't call them anything. I just go back and forth in the DMs and I say, like you know, if you want to hop on a call and talk about this and share more, let me know.

Speaker 1:

So I just called a call, it would be cool to talk about that in a moment. Okay, just what that process of being on a call looks like, because, again, for me, coaching can have a different result depending on the need, right, like a good result looks different, right. And so I'm just curious, like, how do you do those calls? But before we get there, now that we've talked about that, and then, like we'll wrap up the episode, we both have traveling in common and you've traveled. What countries have you traveled to?

Speaker 2:

I think I started with mexico and canada, and then brazil, norway, australia, thailand, new zealand, lao, argentina, whoa this was like we were single traveling, or you and your husband traveled together my husband and I traveled together to a bunch of places and we also went to ireland, but I also, in college, I went to new zealand and to brazil when I was younger, and oh and cuba before it was legal.

Speaker 2:

I had a I had a travel agent in mexico and I worked in the Sea of Cortez for the winter and my travel agent figured out how to get a few of us to Cuba. Yeah, that's intriguing. What did you do with your passport? You had your passport and you took like a little piece of paper and put it in and you handed it over to customs and they stamped your piece of paper. You kept that with you on your trip, but when you left they just took it back.

Speaker 1:

Oh, okay, so like what Israel does, standards, so that, like people can still travel to Muslim countries. That makes sense, yeah. It was scary though it was what was scary about traveling to Israel.

Speaker 2:

I just remember looking at that guy and being like what happens if this doesn't work? Like you know, I'm like how old was I 22, 23, standing in this country that I'm not supposed to be in? But it worked and it was great.

Speaker 1:

I feel like we experience life during the same time range. Believe it or not, we don't have to reveal our ages. That sounds like you were traveling at like the beginnings of the internet.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

When you couldn't just go and pull up pretty quickly like six blogs and find all the like proven travel paths and get all the information from YouTube videos. You know, like this is how it's going to be, like you know, it's almost like back then I feel like it was a special or a special or travel time, because there was just more unknown and you had to truck through more.

Speaker 2:

And you didn't have a computer in your pocket and you didn't have a laptop in your backpack. Like good luck. It was sort of like here here's a lonely planet. I hope you meet some nice people, otherwise your trip's going to suck.

Speaker 1:

You're right, lonely planet. I remember taking one of those to Paris. But, yeah, you had to trek through a lot more fear you had to overcome a lot more fear to do the kind of traveling you did. So, wow, let alone go to Cuba illegally. Yeah, I mean I'm sure you went legally. Just yeah, from a different country, different port of departure yep, cool.

Speaker 1:

The final question I had and then we'll wrap this episode up, which is what does your discovery call look like? As far as like the process from starting the call to to realizing, or I guess, yeah, realizing somebody's the right person to work with, because when I said, wow, I want 100% close rate, you basically were, like, do you? You might not?

Speaker 2:

so, yeah, what's your call look like? Well, I think it starts before the call. So just giving you that piece would be leaving out the pre-call stuff that I do, which helps the wrong people never make it to my Zoom.

Speaker 1:

Helps the wrong people. Never make it to your Zoom Okay.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So generally people will reach out in some way or another. Sometimes they end up on my calendar just and I'm like huh, I wonder where they came from. And that's fun too. But a lot of times we connect in some way and they indicate that they're interested in working with me and I have a few questions that I ask by email to get a back and forth going.

Speaker 2:

I do this for a couple of reasons. If they can't answer the first email, then they're probably not going to have a lot of success as a client. So if I never hear back from them, I'm like great, Then that was the end for you, Perfect. And I also ask questions that a lot of my clients haven't really thought about, Like I like to ask a bigger question, Like what does it look like six months from now If you've had this impact that you want to have? Like, what does that look like financially? What does that look like? In a lot of different ways, and sometimes it takes people three weeks to come back to that one, which I find fun so I go back right right and they're.

Speaker 2:

they write a lot, so I get a lot of information from them too about what they're doing, what they're up to, what they really want. So then once they've shared, like it's a couple back and forth, I've got this huge chunk of information usually and I say I get that sense of like I think I can help you. And so I say like I think I tell them, I think I can help you If you're interested in getting on a call and sharing more, and I'll share more about what I'm up to. You know we can book a call, but it's this process of really them saying yes to reaching out, yes to answering their question, yes to answering another question, yes to answering another question and then choosing the call themselves, which I think really helps weed out a lot of people.

Speaker 1:

You are describing a self-selecting funnel.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I have a self-selecting funnel.

Speaker 1:

Well, I made that term up the self-selecting part. Well, I made that term up, the self-selecting part, but based in the funnel. You're doing the same thing and people can kind of self-select themselves out of the funnel, or they can choose to engage and eventually have a call with you in a very low pressure way. And since you're asking questions.

Speaker 2:

It sounds to me like they're still getting value as they kind of make or go like further steps down the funnel towards a call, and it's my goal behind all of these things that I do, whether we get on the call and you say yes to working with me or not. Or we go through a couple of these emails that you're going to leave with more clarity about what you're up to in business, no matter what, like I'm cool if you leave the call and you say no from like a really great informed place. That's actually one of my favorite things. Or I get to send you to the right person for you to work with if, for some reason, you got to me and it wasn't a great fit. It's also fun when you become a client of mine too, but there's a lot of ways for these calls to be successful.

Speaker 1:

Well, that makes sense. I mean, we all in the online business space would love to work with more of the people that we love to work with more.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly it's like one of those really obvious things that we can all get on board with.

Speaker 1:

Cool, I like it All right. So you had talked about something that somebody could get from the description of this episode, and it was called the five ways to make coaching your marketing. You want to share a little bit more about that? I mean it'd be linked up in the description of this episode in the show notes.

Speaker 2:

I think the important thing about that for me for anyone who picks it up is that it's not a whole bunch of extra stuff you have to do. It's a few tweaks to what you're already doing that will make it feel easier for you. So it's about creating more ease and getting more of what makes you great at your coaching or whatever it is you do behind the scenes, and getting that out in front of people so they can really see what is great about working with you and you like. What I found is it's just easier to create content if I can do it about the thing I'm most passionate about and the thing I'm the best at.

Speaker 1:

Okay, All right, well, cool yeah, this was informative for me and I believe it was quite informative for the listener. So thank you for taking a moment to get to know me and then to share what you've just shared on this podcast episode.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thanks for having me and for letting me know I have a self-selecting funnel. I feel like that feels cooler than what I thought I had before. So that's awesome, all right.

Speaker 1:

If your Instagram bio changes to the self selectress, there you go. It could be a cool name. What's your podcast? Because somebody might want to hear your podcast too.

Speaker 2:

It's called the Remarkable Life Podcast. Cool, all right.

Speaker 1:

I am looking at it right now the Remarkable Life Podcast.

Speaker 2:

We'll probably rename it again sometime soon. But podcast We'll probably rename it again sometime soon, but for now that's what it's called.

Speaker 1:

That's okay. Yeah, everybody likes a different rebranding, thank you. Thank you for being here, thanks for having me. It's been fun For sure. And until the next time that you, the listener, hear me or get to see me, be blessed and we'll chat soon. Bye.

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Kwadwo Sampany-Kessie

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