96 Brienne M. Brown — Authenticity: Your Best Sales Tool

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To kick off season 9, we sat down with Brienne Brown, a plein air painter with a love for both oils and watercolor. Brienne shares her journey from a career in the sciences to becoming a full-time artist, explaining how her background in science has helped her art and teaching. She also discusses the the importance of finding one's artistic voice through consistent practice, comparing it to developing your own handwriting. She also described her transition from oils to watercolor and her introduction to plein air painting, which became one of her main callings. She also tells us about her sales strategies emphasizing the importance of connecting with people and how authenticity is your greatest sales tool. We also talked about the supportive nature of art communities, seeking out small-business classes, and the need to focus on personal fulfilment and authenticity rather than just financial success or pleasing others. Brienne also shares her advice for those seeking to become full-time artists, including the importance of improving their craft, networking, and finding supplemental income streams. Finally, Brienne tells us about her upcoming participation at the Catalina Wildside Show and the Laguna Plein Air Painters Invitational.

Brienne's FASO site:
https://www.briennembrown.com/

Brienne's online courses:
https://www.travelingcolorsstudio.com/

Brienne's Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/briennembrownartist

Brienne's Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/brienne.m.brown/

Transcript

Brienne Brown: 0:00

Might be tempted, and you see someone else, and you're comparing to them and thinking, Oh, well, I've got to do something like that when really just trying to be authentic to who you are, will be your best tool, because you have a unique voice. You have a unique thing to say we all do, and the buyers or the patrons, or whoever's looking at your art, they have their own experience, right? That they bring to something that they see. And that's what's great. It's that communication, right? It's just, we don't get to necessarily tell them what to think. But that's that's good, that's okay. You know, that's what makes the art world wonderful.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:43

Welcome to the bold brush show where we believe that fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Laura Arango Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others were in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights to kick off season eight, we sat down with Brienne Brown, a plein air painter with love for both oils and watercolor. Brienne shares her journey from a career in the sciences to becoming a full time artist, explaining how her background in science has helped her art and teaching. She also discusses the importance of finding one's artistic voice through consistent practice, comparing it to developing your own handwriting. She also described a transition from oils to watercolor and her introduction to plein air painting, which became one of her main callings. She also tells us about her sales strategies, emphasizing the importance of connecting with people and how authenticity is your greatest sales tool. We also talk about the supportive nature of art communities, seeking out small business classes, and the need to focus on personal fulfillment and authenticity, rather than just financial success or pleasing others. Brian also shares her advice for those seeking to become full time artists, including the importance of improving their craft, networking and finding supplemental income streams. Finally, Brianne tells us about her upcoming participation at the Catalina Wild Side Show and The Laguna plein air painters Invitational. Welcome Brianne to the boldbrush show. How are you today?

Brienne Brown: 2:13

I'm great. Thanks for having me. Excited to talk to you today.

Laura Arango Baier: 2:16

Thanks for being here.

Brienne Brown: 2:18

Yeah, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 2:19

I'm excited to have you, because you handle both oil and watercolor in Plein Air, which those are three very challenging things already on their own. So I think it's very commendable and amazing that you do those. And also your your plein airs are gorgeous. So of course, I had to have you on to discuss how you got there, and then, you know, discuss your influences and all of the beautiful things that come with being an artist. But before we dive into that, do you mind telling us a bit about who you are and what you do?

Brienne Brown: 2:56

I would love to Yes. So I am an artist, and like you say, I love to do watercolor and oil, and especially in plein air. I also am a mom, so I'm very busy. I have three kids, and you know, just kind of try to make it work. I do a lot of plein air events. I also sell my work in galleries and and other shows and also directly, but I also teach online as well as in person, so I love to do that. So yeah, a lot of different things that all make up what I do.

Laura Arango Baier: 3:35

Awesome. Yeah, yeah, I did see on your website, you have a mentorship program, both hands on and hands off, which is pretty cool. Yeah, yes, it's good to have the two options. But yeah, that's awesome. And then you have a very interesting past. From what I read. You actually were in the sciences before you landed in your path of the artist, but it seemed like you already had, like, a love for it. Anyway. Do you mind telling us also how you ended up on the path of the artist, or when you decided to pursue it? Yeah, that's a

Brienne Brown: 4:07

great question. And I did always love to draw. I mean, drawing was like my first love. I From when I was a kid, and so I always had an art class, always, you know, going through school. But it wasn't till I never thought of it as a career. I was never thinking, oh, I want to be an artist when I grow up. You know, I wanted to be a doctor. I wanted to go into research, and so I started in chemistry when I was in undergrad. But then in graduate school, it was the first time in my life that I had no time for art. So I was just so busy, like before, I'd always done it, but when so it was, that was the time, and that was in about 2001 2003 and I realized, wow, I need this for me. You know, at that point, it was just still not necessarily that I wanted to be an artist. I knew I had to keep painting, so I couldn't put it down. And so from then, I made it a point to keep painting, keep drawing, and I always made time for it. And so that was an important turning point for me. I graduated in chemistry, worked as a toxicologist for a number of years. Still painted while I did that, so I was still still doing that, but it wasn't till my oldest was born, which he is now 16. So 16 years ago that I quit my job as a toxicologist. Got to stay home to raise my kids, but then I had more time to paint, at least for a little bit, and so I I knew I wanted to keep doing it. And then from then, I just started, you know, a couple years later, then I started to really think, well, maybe I want to be an artist and actually turn this into a career as well as be a mom, I thought. And it actually has turned out to be a great career, as well as being a, you know, mom and raising my kids. So that's how it kind of happened,

Laura Arango Baier: 6:06

yeah, so it sounds like you basically landed back there after a whole career in a totally different thing, which, you know, it's, it's interesting that you mentioned that you got into the sciences despite, you know, having, like, this love in between the two things, right? You were handling art, handling scientists. Do you find that there are similarities between the two? I love that. Yes,

Brienne Brown: 6:27

I do, because I think in the So, my husband's a scientist too, and he's very creative. And I think to be a scientist, you do have to be creative, and you have to think outside the box, and you have to visualize things. And so I feel that like my background in art really helped my science. You know, back I could visualize what was going on. And when I was I taught science as well a little bit in grad school, and I loved it. It was really fun. But I found that my background in art helped me teach, because I could think of things in different ways and be able to explain that and so, but my science background has also helped my art in a weird way. But, like, I don't regret, you know, I don't regret the path that I took, because I have people that you know, do you wish you just went into art, but I don't, because it made me who I am. And so I think my science background has helped me to teach art as well. Because I'm able to compartmentalize things. I'm able to break things down. I can think through things in a very, you know, systematic manner, as well as just be creative, you know, kind of both sides of my brain to kind of work with. And so I really, yeah, I'm actually really proud of both backgrounds. And it kind of, yeah, creates me

Laura Arango Baier: 7:54

today, yeah. So, yeah, yeah. And it makes sense. I mean, you know, as artists, it's a lot of observation, right? And it's also, especially with, like, painting, there's actually a lot of use of the scientific method, literally, exactly, you Oh, I see that. Put it down. Is it the right values of that color? Is it working? Yes or no. Repeat until it's correct. Yeah, yeah. So it's very sciencey, actually, is,

Brienne Brown: 8:20

you know? And I love to say, because I love puzzles and math and science, to me, was always like putting a puzzle together. Well, painting is like putting a puzzle together. It's they're so similar, because it's like, you have all these pieces to work with, and you're putting them together to see how they work. And that, to me, is very exciting. And so each painting is a new experience. So I think a lot of that comes from, you know, the math and the science that I loved as well. So it all connected,

Laura Arango Baier: 8:50

yeah, yeah, yeah. And it, you know, I resonate with that too. I also see painting as a puzzle, because you have, you have all of the the pieces right on your palette, and you have to build those pieces also, which is even cooler. It's not just like, oh, here we go. I'll just put all these pieces. Now you build them, and then you put them down, and you have to make sure that they fit and that they're correct from the get go. So it's fun, yeah? I like that. It is, it is very fun. Like, it's like,

Brienne Brown: 9:18

brain Yes, yeah. I love that and the soul food. I mean, I just think that painting, and that's what I learned when I was in grad school and didn't have time for it, that it fed me in certain ways that other things couldn't. So, you know, I think I just had to learn that the hard way. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 9:39

So did you find that doing only science kind of made you feel like you were, like one side of you was languishing a lot like you needed,

Brienne Brown: 9:47

yeah, I think so. And it's interesting, you know, I've had people ask me, Do I miss the science I do, in a way? But yeah, I love to read about it, so I'll go and I can read about different studies. And I think that's fascinating, but I don't have to do the research like I don't know if I necessarily miss all of that. I just love what I do today. So life just took me down the right path.

Laura Arango Baier: 10:13

Yes, yeah, and I love that, uh, earlier you said you don't regret your life as it's happened. I think it's very beautiful to have that, because also, I think it's very funny that you had your career as a scientist and your hobby as a baker, and then they switched. Yeah, exactly, and you just have science as your hobby.

Brienne Brown: 10:32

I just find it it's fun to read and it's fun to listen to different things about what's going on. But yeah, I did, I switched, I flip flopped. Okay, yes,

Laura Arango Baier: 10:45

yeah, and now that you've been painting for quite some time, how have you found your artistic voice? And how do you recommend others can find theirs? Yeah, that

Brienne Brown: 10:56

is great. I think the way, a lot of it just comes down to continual practice. And I know we hear this all the time, and I heard it when I was doing it, and a lot of sometimes it would roll my eyes. Yes, I know, okay, practice, but it is true. It's kind of like handwriting, the way I look at it, your style will develop. It's like when you write. The more and more you write, the more and more your handwriting is cemented, and you have your own way of doing it. Well, painting is the same way we learn from different places. But then the more and more you practice it, and the more and more you do it, and more consistently, you develop your own handwriting, you develop your own style. And so it just really comes down. You've got to put the miles on the brush. It's basically, it's good to learn. It's good to learn theory. I love art theory. I love all of that. But you develop your own style by the continual practice. So it's not sexy, but there you go.

Laura Arango Baier: 12:07

Well, yeah, no, that makes sense. I like that you compare it to like mileage, because it is, it's it's a long journey. And I like the comparison to handwriting as well, because, I mean, we all write the same letters, but we have our own way of writing them. You can recognize someone by their handwriting, yeah,

Brienne Brown: 12:24

and you can start to I can, you know, I work with many students, and the more I've worked with them, I can tell their paintings just by looking at the painting. I mean, already, even though they're still learning, they have a style about them. Now we may want to develop that styling and improve, but you already have a style, so I think that's one thing not to focus too much on. That will come, but it's really just putting in that, that time, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 12:56

yeah, yeah, allowing yourself to experiment and stuff. Yes, yeah. Very important, yeah. And then I wanted to ask you also, because, actually a couple things, because I'm very curious, did you start with watercolor, or did you start with oils? Or what did you start with? Yeah, great.

Brienne Brown: 13:13

No, I started with charcoal, I guess, you know, and drawing stuff. So I started with drawing. But when I started painting, I started with acrylic and oil, so I didn't do watercolor until later. I started watercolor after college, just kind of dabbling with it. I took a class here and there. Had no idea what I was doing, but I focused on watercolor when my oldest was born, so it was really just a practical decision that I just thought it would be less toxic, less like, you know, leaving brushes around. That was really my only decision. And so I focused on water color. So 16 years ago is when I started to really focus on it. Put my oils away and I started bringing oils back, I would say about six years ago, you know. So that's kind of So, yeah, I started with oil, and then went to watercolor, and now brought oil back too.

Laura Arango Baier: 14:12

Yeah, I was just very curious, because I think I've seen a lot of cases where there are watercolors, but they don't, if they start with watercolor, I'm like, Oh my gosh, wow, yeah, you start with the tough stuff. But I do find that oils and acrylics are very good base to work with. With watercolor, for sure, but it's really awesome that you also thought about that non toxic aspect. Because, yeah, oils do have that side of them that is unfortunate, of them being a little bit dangerous to work with, especially if you're working with heavy metals like cadmium lead, right? And it's so

Brienne Brown: 14:48

good to it's better now than when I started, you know? I mean, they have better things now. But yes, yeah, so,

Laura Arango Baier: 14:59

yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then, okay, so when did you start plein air? Then, because you mentioned that you do plein air, both in watercolor and in oils, I know I'm really curious to know, because you must have started with oils. I think, because I feel like with watercolor, I would panic, I would have a panic attack. Oh, no, I lost you. Hello.

Brienne Brown: 15:22

Yes, yeah, sorry, sometimes it's getting me out, but

Laura Arango Baier: 15:27

Oh, you're good. You're good. We'll just start that from where I left off. Hey, so did you start with when you started plein air? Did you start with oils, or was it watercolor? Because I find that maybe with oils, it's probably a little easier. But I mean, if you did it with watercolor and kudos, I would have a panic attack.

Brienne Brown: 15:45

Well, I don't have a panic attack. But yes, I actually started with watercolor because I didn't start playing air till it was 2009 I specifically remember I had a workshop with a watercolor artist, and he came to me, he's like, Brianne, you you've got talent, but you've gotta get outside and paint and and I was like, Oh, is that all? And I just was, I didn't quite know what that meant, because I didn't know about plein air at that time, but I did what he said to do, and it really did help my studio work as well as I just fell in love with plein air. I decided, well, I started with watercolor, because at that time, I was only doing watercolor, and then I just fell in love with it, like from the get go, and it was hard, I mean, I had to relearn, because I was a studio painter, and it's different, right? It's different painting, you think, because I had a lot of experience, but yet you get outside, and now it's a whole new, whole new thing. And but I really wanted to do it, and I trusted my teacher that that's what I needed to do. And so I just kept with it, and I actually made little goals for myself. So I for like three I had young kids. Kids were only nine. Oh yeah, that my oldest was like a year and a half, you know, maybe two. And so I had young kids and I, for three months, I would say, okay, for three months, I'm going to paint two times a week. I had help from my parents and my husband, and I just said, Okay, that's my goal. But it was great, because then over those three months, when that was done, not that I was perfect, right? We're never perfect, but I had a group, a body of work that I could look through and I could see the progress, because you're not going to see it day to day, but over a three month period, I could see that progress, and it kept me going. So like, Okay, what did I learn? What am I going to focus on now? And so that really helped me a lot.

Laura Arango Baier: 18:02

Nice. Yeah, that's fascinating, because I would have started with oils, because I'm terrified.

Brienne Brown: 18:10

Yeah, with plein air, it's really good, no matter what medium you're comfortable with to start it with that right? I mean, water color is nice because you need less stuff. You only need water, any just for me, and so that part's kind of nice. But yet, oil and plein air is really nice because you're not dependent on the weather as much as with watercolor, because watercolor, if it's really humid and it doesn't dry very much, you're painting it a little differently than if it's really dry, and it's drying as you paint, so you have to adjust how you paint depending on the weather. So it does get more complicated than even just painting watercolor. So with oil, you don't have that as much, right? There is a little bit, you know, it does change, but not, not as drastically.

Laura Arango Baier: 19:03

Yeah, oh my gosh. I didn't even like realize that part, because, yeah, it makes sense, especially if you need to work wet into wet a little bit more with watercolor, if it's too dry, that's definitely not ideal, but it is nice that you know, if you go hiking, it is a lot easier to carry all of the equipment, because with oils, you have to carry your Terps, you have to carry, like, all of the tubes of paint, which they can be heavy, yeah, they can you have to carry, yeah, plus the easel, which, of course, that's, that's, that's his water color. And with oils, it's heavy on its own. Wow, that's fascinating. And then you mentioned also that your parents were helping your husband or help was also helping you. How long did it take for you to more or less stabilize your income through your art? Or was that not a goal at the beginning? Or did slowly become a goal?

Brienne Brown: 19:54

That's great. You know, it really kind of happened gradually for me. So. So, like I said, I think I from when I first just started trying to improve, so it wasn't really a goal yet for me to sell my work and actually make a living. But then eventually it just kind of, Oh, I really like this, you know, maybe I could do that. And so I would say, though, from when I first started trying to sell, it took about five to six years, you know, of, you know, when I first tried to actually sell my work, but then more time from when I was just trying to improve, right? So, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 20:35

yeah, that's actually pretty quick, considering you were also, you know, with your kids, and that also takes a lot of time. So, wow, five years that's like, that's fast,

Brienne Brown: 20:46

yeah, I guess so. And, you know, it was just one of those things that, as I started to get better, right? And I started to put my work out there, more people started to notice. And then I just started getting invitations and and different things and new doors opened up, and it was, you know, and I don't want to say because it's not like things just happened without work, right? Because I put a lot of work into that, but things did just, kind of, I kind of found my path by just getting to work and figuring out how to do it. So it wasn't like I set a goal of, oh, this is what I want to do by this year. You know, that just didn't happen for me. But I think it really came down to painting and then getting it out there and networking. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 21:42

So when you started selling, what, how did you like, what, what was like your first sale? Was it a commission? Was it like random?

Brienne Brown: 21:52

Oh, man, I think back a long time from that, because, I mean, I sold my work here and there before I started, thinking it was a career, you know, like at a show, like I was entering shows, and so I might sell a painting here and there, at a show, like a watercolor show or something. But when I first, kind of actually got into a gallery, I don't know if it was commission, but actually, I would say my first was the plein air shows. When I did a plein air event, my very first plein air event, which this is going to sound weird, it was my first plein air experience. I didn't tell you this. I decided to it was you just enter it. So it wasn't a juried one, of course, because I hadn't done any, and I jump in with two feet no matter what I do, and so I decided to enter a competition for my first plein air experience. It was really them, but I didn't know what I was doing, and I like, I even hiked, like, a half a mile with all this gear. I hid myself in a bush because I didn't want anyone to see me, right? Because I was terrified, but I went back the next day, painted it again, but I actually sold one of my paintings there at that event. That also got me kind of like, Oh, wow. That was kind of fun, right? That's not that I sell every time, but that was kind of the first that kind of, I think, got me excited, if that makes sense, and so that was at that event.

Laura Arango Baier: 23:28

I love that, yeah, because, I mean, I did see that you get invited to a lot of events. And as you mentioned, how, how have you noticed that that has helped you sell Do you find that, like with the events that you go to and all of these things, what for you has been the best tool, a sales tool for you? That's

Brienne Brown: 23:46

a great question. And really, I think about this, but I think the best sales tool is me, which sounds weird, and my husband agrees that that's true. But it's when I went to the events, I got to talk with people and connect with people, and I think that becomes a huge selling point. When people get to meet the artists, they get to see what you've done. So that's why I do well personally at these plein air events, because I think people see that and they see that progression. They connect with you, and they get a painting of a place they love, you know, so So that for me has been good, but I've had to learn how to do that. Yeah, I think the plein air events have been really helpful for me, because plein air, at the time, when I started watercolor, was not the most common, right? Mostly it's oil. So the plein air world is dominated by oil, and then watercolor and then pastel. Now, of course, acrylics in there as well. But you know, in general, that's what I see more and more lately I've seen more and more watercolors, so I think that actually helped my career, because. Because I was a little more unique, if that makes sense, at the time when I started. And so I think that helps to just kind of find it, find a market for myself,

Laura Arango Baier: 25:12

right? Yeah, that is really interesting. Do you find that? Because I like that. You mentioned that you are the best grade, you know, the best sales tool, because it's true. You know, when people buy work, they aren't just buying it because of the image, right? They also buy it most of the time because they connect with the artists as well, and they want that little piece to remember them by, along with, you know, liking the painting as well. Um, what do you find? Is one of the things that you improved on, right when talking about your work or when trying to sell your work, what is something that helped you sell more like face to face?

Brienne Brown: 25:49

Hmm, I think one thing actually, okay, that's a great question. One, one thing I did. I'm trying to remember when I did it. I don't remember, but I had started trying to sell, and I realized quickly I wasn't very good at selling art, because as an artist, we're taught and you're taught how to paint you love what you do, you paint what you love. But actually trying to sell your work took something else, and running a business with something else. So I took a community class on business, running a small business, which was actually super helpful for me, because it helped me realize that I'm in the business of selling stuff. So yeah, I'm a businessman, right? I mean, yes, I'm an artist, but I'm also trying to sell my work, so that was super helpful. The other thing is just, I kept trying to practice at it. You know, when I go to shows, I go up and talk to people, and a lot of it is just coming down to talking about what you love, which is your work, right? And so the other thing that was key for me, was that I finally realized it wasn't my job to get any everybody to like my work, because that's impossible, right? You're just not going to you can't do that, which is good, because so many people have different tastes. So many people like different things. They connect with different things. So my job was just to paint what really spoke to me, do the best I could, and then find the buyer that would connect with that, you know. And that just helped open up any kind of pressure of like, oh, what should I paint? What will sell, you know, and that kind of things. And it's, it's so tempting to go in that way and think, Oh, wait, what's going to sell? No, connect. Connect with what you're going to connect with, paint, what you love. And the buyer, you will find someone that will connect with that, you know, you just gotta then find them. That's the hard part, right? Well, one hard part, and that's where the marketing comes in, and understanding your your your your market, so understanding you know who you are actually trying to sell to, and that is a key thing. So I think the business side is something to learn as an artist. Yeah, yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 28:21

Apple brush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. Boldbrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free@boldbrushshow.com that's B, O, L, d, b, r, U, S, H show.com. The boldbrush Show is sponsored by Faso. Now more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link, faso.com forward slash podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The Art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step guides on what you should be doing today right now, in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, faso.com forward slash podcast, that's faso.com forward. Slash podcast. Yeah, that's a really great point. And I really love that you mentioned, you know how it's very easy to try to fall into the trap of selling is based on the market, rather than vice versa, right? Where, like, you build the market and then you sell. And that's a great point, because especially with, like, social media and, you know, people being easily influenced by what they see and other people's successes, it might, you know, pull them in the wrong direction. Yeah,

Brienne Brown: 30:27

right, exactly. And you you might be tempted, and you see someone else, and you're comparing to them and thinking, Oh, well, I've got to do something like that when really just trying to be authentic to who you are, will be your best tool. Because you have a unique voice. You have a unique thing to say we all do, and the buyers or the patrons or whoever's looking at your art, they have their own experience, right? That they bring to something that they see. And that's what's great. It's that communication, right? It's just, we don't get to necessarily tell them what to think. But that's that's good, that's okay. You know, that's what makes the art world wonderful and open, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 31:15

yeah. And honestly, it's very funny, because I think there are some people who have a perspective that there's a lot of competition. And I'm inclined to disagree, because there's room for everyone, and there's room for every type of taste under the sun, basically. So I don't, I don't think it's competition. You know, that's like, if everyone is competing to be the best friend of everyone? Yeah, exactly.

Brienne Brown: 31:39

And it's because we each we're going to connect with different people in different ways, and it's not, I think, whatever, I'm always excited when I go to these events. For example, some events I sell really well, and some events not as much, you know, but it's okay, like my friend might sell really well at one event, and I'm excited for them, because who we want the art world to do well. So if anyone's buying art that's helping all of us, you know, it's not like, oh, that took away from mine. No, that buyer connected with that pain and they bought that painting. You know, I so I tend to think of it that way, too. I think it's, it's a we help each other, and it's a positive world, not uh oh, wait, you stole something from me. I don't think we need to do that, because there are so many people right that we

Laura Arango Baier: 32:30

exactly yes, yeah, and I'm pretty sure people have more than enough wall space for more than one painting. I mean, it's not like they just have one wall in their house that would make no sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like you said to people, I mean, the reason people even buy is very it's an emotional reason, right? It doesn't really have much to do with necessarily, like the technique of the painting. Maybe some people like technique more than they like the emotional side. So there's room for everyone. And I like that you mentioned it, that it's it, when someone buys, it helps all of us, right? Because it means that there's a market that's happening and that's beautiful, that's beautiful. So much like, help each other up,

Brienne Brown: 33:13

yeah, right, when we help someone else, it helps us too. And so we just really want to be supportive. And most artists that I've met, you know, at least the ones I've met are supportive and kind of have that philosophy. So those are my friends. So, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 33:30

yeah, yes, yeah. And that's the type of, you know, friendship that you want to have in the first place as well, because you wouldn't want to have a friend who's always, like, competing with you and bringing you down, or, like, jealous like that. That's not helpful. Um, yeah, also, because we're all in our own paths, right? And that's also one of the things that I really like about, you know, talking to artists on the podcast is hearing everyone's unique path and how there could be similarities, but they're so unique also that, I mean, if like one of your paintings, right, that is very unique to you, that is your vision, that is your experience, your lived experience, that's on your canvas, and that's totally different from someone else's right? So, right?

Brienne Brown: 34:10

And it's good, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 34:14

And actually wanted to ask you, because I'm always curious about this, and I am happy that I'm asking these this question now, and that is, who are some of your influences in your work?

Brienne Brown: 34:27

Yeah, okay, so some of the historical influences, I guess you could say, I mean, I love John Singer, Sargent, Andrew Wyeth, of course, Edward Hopper is probably my favorite. I absolutely love his work, and he's been a big influence on my composition and decisions and stuff like that. And then other like, you know, can say contemporary artists, I guess would be my one instructor that got me into plein air. He, you know, no, you might not know his name, but he's rolling. Lee. He's a Utah artist, but he was a big influence on me, and of course, a lot of my teachers beyond that, but I would say also Robert Wade, who is no longer with us, but, and I never met him, but have his art books, and I used to read them all the time, so he was a huge influence in my work, as well as Valve cassang and Joseph zubac, which are both watercolor artists, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 35:35

yeah, yeah. And then how have their because, you know, each of those painters has their own vision as well, right? And it's good to have multiple influences for that reason too, because being stuck on someone else's vision might cloud your own. That makes me wonder too, like when you paint planner, or when you're painting any subject really, what is it that most draws you to a specific subject? What? What inspires you?

Brienne Brown: 36:02

You know, I think a lot of it has the main things are shape, light and shadow, and I love shapes that are created. I like a variety of shapes, and so I absolutely love composing. I always do a value study before every painting. So I'm always taking the time to make sure I think out it's like that puzzle that we were talking about. It's like putting those first pieces in, those big shapes in to say, Okay, what is it that's really what am I trying to say here? What am I feeling? But I like all different kinds of subjects. So for example, I love street scenes. I love painting architecture that really speaks to me. But I also love nature and, you know, pure landscapes, you know, I'm loving that more and more. So, you know, I really have a wide variety of things I love to paint. It really comes down to the shapes. Is what makes me excited, which most people, it's not again, the probably the most exciting to most people. But for us artists, I think that's what we see, and that's what I see. And I get so excited my husband drives my husband nuts, right when we're like, driving down the road, and I'm like, oh, Paul, look, you know I gotta take picture. You know I gotta, I gotta paint that. And, yeah, he doesn't understand. In fact, he asked me one time. He said, So aren't you going to run out of things to paint? I'm like, Absolutely not. I mean, there is endless, endless subjects, endless paintings, and that's why we keep coming back.

Laura Arango Baier: 37:45

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I would ask your husband, are you going to run out of things to research?

Brienne Brown: 37:53

The same thing? Oh, I didn't have that. I should have. Well,

Laura Arango Baier: 37:59

you could always bring it back if I ever mentioned that again. Yeah, yeah. Because it's almost like, the more questions you ask, the more questions you get, you know, like, and that's how it is with painting as well. Like, we're just a different type of exploration and research than, like, scientific research, right? We're literally researching a place with our eyeballs and with our translating right from Vision brain to paint again,

Brienne Brown: 38:27

exactly and and the more we know, the more we learn, the more our skills improves, the harder and harder it gets. But that's what keeps us coming. It's not like we'll ever get to a level where, like, okay, I'm good. I'm good here, no, I hope not. You know, want to continue to improve that continue to develop, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 38:47

yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah. And that's, you know, there are some people who maybe like, especially when it comes to people who maybe have a very recognizable style, it can be dangerous to fall into that trap of, okay, well, this is what sells, and this is what I'm comfortable with, and it's very easy to just plateau there. It's not necessarily a bad thing. I don't think the skills go down. They just plateau. But yeah, I think it's very important to keep keeping curious.

Brienne Brown: 39:17

I think it is too, and I think it does come down to and this is why I tell my students all the time, you really should decide on what are your goals? What are your artistic goals? Because if it is to sell work that is a piece that you have to to to kind of think about, right? And I have no problem with like you say, sometimes artists, they get to a point they're selling well, whatever style they're doing right now is working, and I've seen it to where, like you say, they plateau. They're doing the same thing year after year after year, but if that's their goal, and if it's working for them, who knows, that's great, right? So I think it really comes down to what it Why do you do what you do? And then is it fulfilling that? Right? So for me, I. So making money at art is important, but it's not the main thing. So for me, it's I really enjoy the action, the act of painting, and I want to keep doing that. And so I want to support that. And so that's really my main thing. But if it was just to make money, I might make different decisions, you know what I mean, because then I maybe could make more, you know. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think it's just you decide what's important to you and what you need.

Laura Arango Baier: 40:33

Yeah, yes, that's very well said. Yes. I completely agree everyone's path is different. And yeah, it's great if someone plateaus, you know, and they're, they're comfortable. I mean, that's Wow. I mean, to even make a living painting is great,

Brienne Brown: 40:48

right? Better job. And also, I don't know, working at McDonald's or something, I don't know. And then nothing against that, but I'm just saying, Yeah, you know, I It's stressful. If you can find something that you love, what you do, wow, that's what we all want, you know? I mean, I love my job. I when we're out painting, and I go to these planner events, and it's hard work. You know? It's not like I have people are like, Oh, is it like a vacation? I'm like, Oh no. Like, not even close. Like, I work so hard during those things, it's like, no sleep, you know, all the stuff you're but I love it. I drive off of it, you know. And I'll be with my friends and painting friends, and we'll be like, can you believe this is what we get to do? And that's when you know you're doing what you need to do. And then it's successful.

Laura Arango Baier: 41:43

Oh yeah, yes, yeah, it's, I it is a bit cushy to be an artist making a living, of course, because we have very free schedules. Basically, it's very, very much on our own whim. But I think, you know, thought is amazing, because it's almost like alchemy, like we literally take, you know, these metals, and we turn them into gold, because we, we just decided this is what I want, and that's I'm just, I'm gonna make it happen, and it's a possibility. I mean, people like you who can enjoy it and make sales. Oh, that's great. What would you want that you put it that way,

Brienne Brown: 42:17

like alchemy. That's a good analogy.

Laura Arango Baier: 42:22

Cute. Yeah, and also, you mentioned something else that I really liked, which is, it is hard work. It sounds cushy, right, but it is, it is hard work, especially on the brain, especially if you're out plein airing. I mean, you have to hike, you have to, you have to walk around, but at least it has a purpose that lines up with yours, right? Because I always say, like, if, if I'm going to be miserable and poor, right? I'd rather have like, like, a job where I actually get paid bi weekly in a constant way, than be miserable, like, painting, for example, right? I won't have enough money, and I'm gonna need it, right? So that's how you would know, yeah, that's how you would know that, like, oh, maybe this isn't for me, right?

Brienne Brown: 43:10

And I think going into it, you've really got to love what you're doing. I mean, this is my opinion, for being an artist, you really have to love what you're doing, because, yes, you can make a living. It's not an easy living. You know, it is easier to go into a job nine to five, get your paycheck, and you know you're going to get paid each time where, yeah, we have flexible schedules, but there are times where you have a deadline, where you're, like, working non stop, right? And so it comes and goes, which works well for me as a mom, because then there's times I know that I can, you know, be with the kids 100% and then there's times where, oh no, I have to crunch time. And so, you know, I need help. But, but it works. It works for us. And my husband, again, is super supportive, and so that's just been a huge blessing. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 44:10

yeah, yeah, it is. It's definitely a blessing. And then that blessing is also, you know, I find that the nine to five work philosophy, I guess I could call it, um, I think it could be so restrictive, because, you know, you spend more time at work than you do with your family, with your kids. And I feel like, if that's your value, also, if you value spending time with the people you love, then of course that's, uh, that's another indicator of, oh, maybe this is, you know, my path. You know, I love my paintings. I love, like this work. I mean, of course, there are painters who decide to give themselves more workload. Yes, um, yeah. But if you want to balance more of that family work aspect, then it's fair.

Brienne Brown: 44:52

I love that you brought that up because I like to talk with other artists, moms, I want to say with especially young kids, because I get asked. The question a lot like, how do you be an artist and a mom, you know? And how can you do both? And it is, it is, it is tricky, and it's tricky finding that balance. And I think it's just something that you constantly have, I constantly have to reevaluate, you know, because it kind of got to where, when I like, I said, Remember how I said that? Like, different doors just started opening up, you know, and more and more people started noticing, and, well, it got to the point where all of a sudden there were too many doors, like, I couldn't do all of them, which was, it's a good problem to have, but it's also a problem that I don't want to sacrifice my time with my kids either. So I now am in a really good I like it, in a good position to where I get to be more choosy. I get to choose what it is I want to be involved in what I can't, because I can't do it all, you know. And maybe just have to realize that, like you say, it's finding out what's important and finding that balance.

Laura Arango Baier: 46:06

Yes, yeah, yeah. And it's a very interesting thing, yeah, you're not. I mean, obviously you're not the first mother I've interviewed, and it is, it is a full time career as well, if you think about it that way. Also, you know, for for anyone who's a father, I've also interviewed a lot of father painters who are like, Yeah, I live for my kids, and I also include my kids in my studio and teach them how to paint because they have the interest. So it's, I like that it can be busy, and I like that you mentioned, you know, all of these opportunities, suddenly you had to start saying no, because you had to value your time. That's a great point. And then also, you know that that inclusivity, like you get to be home with your kids, right? It's like a although I did see that you have your own really cool studio that you built. Yes,

Brienne Brown: 46:53

that was a blessing, for sure. Yeah, we did that in 2019 Well, we finished it in 2019 and it was a blessing, because, of course, when the pandemic hit the next year, we had to turn it into part homeschool, because I had to homeschool my kids too. So it was fortuitous. But I love it because I can close the door, you know, go back to my house and it's just a separate place, like my workspace. So yes, very nice, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 47:28

yeah, very nice, yeah. It's a dream come true for most painters. I think that

Brienne Brown: 47:32

is a dream come true. That's definitely what I wanted.

Laura Arango Baier: 47:37

So yes, it is goals, and also, I did want to ask a little bit more about business, right? What if someone wants to become a full time artist? What advice would you give them, and what ways can they supplement income as well? Great,

Brienne Brown: 47:56

so I'm going to give the same advice modified a little bit to the advice I got, because when I first started to try to sell my work, I went to an artist, and then I knew, and I just said, Okay, what do I have to do? And I came with a notebook, and I was ready to, like, okay, 1234, give me the steps. And he said, he was like, Well, you know, just paint and it'll come and I was like, Oh, that is so not helpful. But what I have to say is, I think there's more to it than that. So it's not just that, but I think that is the first key step, is you've got to improve your craft. Keep painting, don't stop that should definitely be on your list of something to do very consistently, because the better you get at that step, the better you get at your craft, the easier it is to do step two, which is to get your work out there, get your work out there so that people can see it, and that it means, start by entering local shows. There's tons of shows you can have locally. Then you can start branching out to, you know, wider range. Then you can go nationally, you know, and you can that's kind of what I did, is kind of stepping stone up. But it really is about who you know, networking. And I went to various shows and various conventions and stuff, and met people, and then my name was on their on their radar for when they wanted something else. And so definitely you have to get your work out there and talk to people, but the better you are at step one. That means keep painting more doors will open in step two. So I think that's the key kind of you know progression. But also I would add that. You, and we kind of talked, we touched on this before, but realizing and discovering who your market is, I think, is a key thing, and that's so that's kind of the business side, but one and two are basically the main steps. And then as you're trying to improve your sales, it would be trying to really decide who your market is, and focusing your energy on marketing to that, that group of people you know, and however that, whatever that means for you. Oh, and then you asked about supplemental income, yes. So yes, I think there's lots of options nowadays, which I think are pretty fantastic, because no longer are we in the time where you need a gallery, right? You need a gallery to represent your work, you know? And that's still an option. And I'm in several galleries, and so it's good, but we are in a day and age where you as an artist can do a lot by yourself, right? And so teaching, of course, is one, I mean, that's classic, that a lot of artists will end up teaching. I love to teach for so for me, that was a natural thing to supplement my income. There is also other businesses in the arts, I suppose that you could do, you know, I know artists that have done that also just online, figuring out, I never did prints, but I know a number of people that found out a really good way of making some, you know, regular income by doing that, you know, because not everyone can buy original art, you know. And that is true, and that's just, that's the fact of it, and that's okay, but some people still want good images. They still want good art. And so I think there's lots of avenues that are open if you wanted to look for that. Yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah. That's

Laura Arango Baier: 51:57

really great advice. Um, yeah, there's there. The internet has been a wonder, I think, for artists today. So it's great that we have so much access to all of these possibilities, even with, say, for example, like social media. I've heard of artists who are like, Oh, I just started posting on my work, which is that step one you mentioned having a bunch of work and having that production, and a gallery approached me and decided to work with me, and they were very excited about my work. About my work, and that's really important as well, especially with galleries, that the galleries just as enthusiastic about your work.

Brienne Brown: 52:29

And that's another key thing I learned when I first started approaching galleries, is the remember, it's a partnership, so you are interviewing them just as much as they're interviewing you. It's not L galleries are going to be a good fit for your work, right? I mean, do you want to kind of like it? What are they selling? Do you fit in that gallery to start with? You know, so, so, yeah, not always. It doesn't mean it's good or bad. It's just you're doing interviewing too. You gotta choose, yes, yes,

Laura Arango Baier: 53:00

yes, yeah. And you know, by that token, also the first person you're selling to, in that sense, is a gallery, right? Yeah? So yeah, especially if you work with a gallery, yeah, that is, that is awesome. And then also, another piece of advice that I want to hear from you is, what do you wish someone had told you when you were starting out.

Brienne Brown: 53:23

Wow, I don't know. I don't wish someone would tell me how hard it was, but I guess I wish someone would just have told me to just relax, relax into it and don't be so worried about and I know this is easier said than done, but I found when I finally just relaxed and just, you know, focused on my work, not trying to please other people. And I kind of mentioned that before, but I think when I first started, it really hurt, right? I mean, because when we put our work out there, we're putting, because we put so much into our paintings, it's not just a thing, it's something that is part of us, and so we are judged, right? You're putting out a painting to be judged, which is a way of saying they're judging a piece of us. And so it is difficult, but when I could finally just relax into that and just realize, okay, it doesn't matter. Their judgment. Doesn't matter, uh, you know, my happiness and how I do my work. And then if you can just do that, boy, it will save you a lot of headaches, and you'll be more successful, because your work will be better if you are relaxed and happy with it instead of worried about what the outcome is. If you worry too much about the outcome your your work will show it right, and I know mine does. You know when I my worst painting, it's like I'm so worried about trying to make this good. It. But I'm just, you know, I'm setting myself up for failing. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 55:07

yeah, yeah. It's very good point to make. It is very delicate balance. Like very it's very much like going with the flow, in that sense, like remembering that little world that you're in first before allowing that external world to start dictating anything, because it can really, really affect you too much, especially because artists are also sensitive. Also, if someone says, Oh, I hate your painting, it's like, let me just go cry. I

Brienne Brown: 55:36

know, right. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 55:41

it is. It's okay. Not everyone's gonna like your work. And I mean, there are moments where I do think you know that if you get like useful criticism, right, positive criticism, that's very important. It's important not to reject that very good.

Brienne Brown: 55:58

And that is a key point. I mean, feedback, useful, productive. Feedback is key. It's essential, because we can only get as good as we can get on our own. I mean, if we can't see it, if we can't see where we can improve, then yeah. So I agree, and it is hard to get good critique, but it is necessary. That's different than someone just saying they don't like it, right? And they, I mean, that's so not helpful. It's also not helpful for them to just say they love it either. Neither is very helpful,

Laura Arango Baier: 56:33

yeah, yeah, because it's not objective, right? Yeah,

Brienne Brown: 56:36

but yeah, so Yeah, good point.

Laura Arango Baier: 56:40

Thank you. You made some excellent points this entire time. So I'm just going all right, sounds good? Yeah. So now I want to know if you have any exciting, maybe upcoming, things happening in California that you want to mention.

Brienne Brown: 56:56

Yes, I do. So in October, I'm going to be spending like almost three weeks in our in California, because I'll be there for the Laguna planer painter Association. They're Invitational, so I'm going to be there painting. But then also, I'm really excited about the Catalina Wild Side art show. So 10 artists were invited to come paint in Catalina Island, and we're putting on a show in October. We'll each have about 10 paintings, and so I'm really excited about that show, and that's going to be October 19 and 20th in Newport east.

Laura Arango Baier: 57:34

That's exciting. That's awesome. Oh my gosh. And then where can people find more of your work.

Brienne Brown: 57:40

So you can find on my website, which is Brianne M brown.com Also my instagram handle is just Brianne M brown artist, and yeah, and I also teach. So my teaching website, for anyone who's interested, is traveling colors studio.com, you can also through my website, but

Laura Arango Baier: 58:09

yes, yes, and your social media, yeah. Well, awesome. Thank you so much, Brianne for all of your excellent advice. I will be taking a lot of that. Oh,

Brienne Brown: 58:23

it was really good, and it's fun to talk with you and get to learn some new points from YouTube. Yeah, this is great. Thank you. You're welcome. Bye.