Difference Makers Discuss Live - Scaling New Heights: Naomi Walsh on Breaking Barriers in Accounting and Championing Sustainability

Embark on a journey with Naomi Walsh, the trailblazing Vice President of Chartered Accountants Australia  and New Zealand, as she unveils her extraordinary ascent in the accounting world. Her story, a testament to tenacity and ambition, begins in regional Tasmania and ascends to international heights, with a career-defining role in the UK working on the Olympics. Naomi's candid revelations about overcoming gender bias, fostering confidence, and the power of global experiences provide a treasure trove of wisdom for anyone aspiring to leave a mark in their field.

Our conversation with Naomi takes a deep look into the transformative effects of international networking and cultural exposure on career progression. Naomi's perspective, seasoned by global adventures, sheds light on the unique community spirit of Tasmania and how it influences professional dynamics. She emphasizes the importance of educational programs that equip the next generation with employability skills and industry connections. The nuances of workplace culture across different regions are also dissected, demonstrating the importance of understanding and adapting to these differences for career success.

Lastly, Naomi and I delve into the revolution of the accounting profession, particularly its expanding role in driving sustainability. Echoing the ambitions of a new generation of accountants, Naomi highlights how the profession transcends traditional expectations, merging financial acumen with creativity and social responsibility. Her passion for guiding aspirants shines through as we discuss the integration of the Sustainable Development Goals into accounting practices and Tasmania's pioneering efforts in carbon accounting. This episode is a clarion call for those who envision a career that not only excels in the balance sheets but also balances the needs of society and the planet.

Transcript

Sinead Donovan: 0:08

Good morning, good afternoon and good evening everyone, to wherever you are tuning in from. For this fourth episode of the Difference Makers podcast, I'm delighted to be joined with another female powerhouse. Believe me, this series was not designed to just be female only, but the institutes are putting forward their females as the Difference Makers. So that's great. But I'm joined today by Naomi Walsh. Naomi is the current vice president of Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand, CA ANZ. She is sitting down in Hobart in Tasmania, so thousands of kilometres away from me, but I'm delighted to be talking to Naomi today. So let's do a little bit of an introduction.

Sinead Donovan: 0:53

And who is Naomi? So, as I mentioned, she's the vice president of and New Zealand. She, in her day job, is senior industry fellow at University of Tasmania. She focuses in her university career on business engagement, accounting employment skills and is involved in an intern programme for international accounting master's students. So I'm looking forward to talking to her about the next gen of accountants. She also serves on a number of Tasmanian government boards as an on-exec director and as chair of Audit, risk and Governance Committees. So we have loads that we're going to touch on with Naomi. So you're very welcome, naomi. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you could maybe fill in the gaps of everything that I've missed there and tell me a little bit about how you've got to where you are today.

Naomi Walsh: 1:51

Thanks, janay. I'm happy to tell you a little bit about my journey to where I got to today. It's been I think I would describe it as one. That's a career that's had many pivots along the way, and I was thinking that pivot was a term that we came up with during COVID and we all pivoted. But then I've listened to some of your other podcasts and it seems to be a bit of a theme with the people that you interview that currently we all have been having a number of pivots.

Naomi Walsh: 2:19

So my current role is as academic lead employability at the University of Tasmania. As you said, I held a number of board director roles, but I have a long journey that brought me to this point of some 30 years. So when I started out I grew up in regional Tasmania on a farm and I think that one of the things that when I started my first role as an accountant was, it was pretty clear that I actually didn't know what an accountant was. So I started out in a really junior position and I know we'll get to talking a little bit later on about some of the diversity, but when I first started out in my role, I started out on the same day as a male in an equivalent role. The male in the equivalent role got the title of junior accountant and I got the title of a checker. And now a checker in that accounting firm was someone who checked the work. So remembering it's quite a long time ago, and so I would use my calculator to check the work of others, and that was the only distinguishing point between me and the other person that was appointed. At the same time I also got the pleasure of making coffees. So that probably dates me a little while, and I'm going to talk a little bit about some of the learnings along the way. And apparently I was terrible at making coffee and I was a bit shaky when I pasted it to the clients, and I think one of my learnings from that was that it's good to be not good at things at times, that so that was probably my very first learning.

Naomi Walsh: 3:50

I then moved to I was. I really didn't have any confidence in myself at that point in time, but I got a lot of confidence by being recruited by another local firm and that sort of gave me that confidence, internal confidence, to say, well, you know, if someone else is looking for my skill set, then perhaps I have got something to offer and at the same time again dating myself in Australia. Our program was called the Professional Year Programme at that time and now called Chartered Accountants and I used to look at the mainly male cohort that I worked in and how confident they were in doing that program and I thought I will never, ever be able to do that. So I really had to prove quite a few things to myself to be able to progress in my career and I think that some of my confidence came from just proving to myself that it was actually possible. Then my husband and I decided we would move somewhere else. Tasmania is a very small community. At that time everyone wanted to leave Tasmania to progress their career in a larger city and we moved to Perth in Western Australia and from that I learned that I went to a larger firm. But probably my evaluation of that role I didn't take enough into consideration in terms of the. You know how important culture fit was at that point in time. It was very much a career choice to work in a particular organisation that had a particular profile and there was nothing wrong with that role, but it just probably wasn't the great fit for me. So we moved on into smaller consultancy practices, had children, had my daughters, one in Perth and then a second.

Naomi Walsh: 5:28

When we moved to the UK, my husband's work took us to the UK and we made some pretty quick decisions to either come home to Tas or go to the UK and then had a fantastic three and a half years working in the UK and establishing my career as doing something completely different. So obviously tax, the legislation was all different. So I had to sort of recreate in that environment in the UK and had some fantastic opportunities there. That I think again pivoting, thinking about the types of projects. I worked in the large banking sector. I did a project for the Olympics at that time and I did some lean work in the lean process and in the banking sector as well. So opportunity to try some really different things.

Naomi Walsh: 6:16

And after that my husband decided one day that at the end of his tenure of his role we might go back to Tasmania and at that time I was really thinking I'm not sure what those career opportunities are going to be for us in Tasmania. But we did it and I then took a role in the private sector, so working in road construction, very much not where I thought I would be. I was very happy in my suits and heels in a corporate environment and in the road construction sector it was sort of a warehouse at the back of the back and so but I actually really enjoyed that role so much that I stayed there 13 years in the private sector. But what that taught me is that there's opportunities everywhere. So I was overseeing some road construction, some accreditation for quality and safety, using the skills that you obtain as an accountant to sort of bring that to different areas of work, where I oversaw the build of a small hotel, because that's what the organisation, that's what the company was doing, and so I just jumped into those opportunities to learn more from that.

Naomi Walsh: 7:30

And then after 13 years, including quite a few times where I thought I probably should extend myself beyond those walls a bit the university there was a role at the university. Someone came to my office at the time that we'd just done a big due diligence in the organisation to sell the major company and I was a bit. I was a bit fatigued by that doing a couple of years of due diligence for the sale of that company and said you know how, about you come over to the university? We're developing some new programs. I've heard about your skillset. Would you like to bring those to the university?

Naomi Walsh: 8:04

Something that I hadn't even thought about, and I sort of looked at it on its merits and I thought, well, that might be a good thing for me to try for a short while, and that's six years ago, so that took me into the academic arena. At the same time, while I was in the other company, I was starting to explore some board roles, particularly in the industry sector boards. I worked in a board in the hospitality sector on the Civil Contractors Federation was their first female treasurer and board member at that time, and so I really enjoyed that governance. So I started to explore what those governance roles might be for me, and that's sort of grown and evolved over the last five or six years as well. That is fast.

Sinead Donovan: 8:52

That was a lot, wasn't it?

Sinead Donovan: 8:55

That was a lot. That's what I was going to say. That's fascinating. I mean you said we've used the term pivot quite a lot in these podcasts and indeed we have. But I think what it's more than just a pivot, it's reactionary, it's being able to flex and I think what you have shown there I've just jotten it down from kind of farm to trainee to travel to the UK, to construction, and you omitted to say that you actually got Telstra businesswoman of the year for the construction sector one of the years you were working there.

Sinead Donovan: 9:23

So obviously, whatever you do, you excel at and now into academia. I think that's phenomenal. And look, let's we'll touch on a number of the points, particularly the diversity point that you've raised there at the start. I'm kind of really, really interested in that and how, hopefully, things have changed a little bit from from from when you trained. But talk to me a little bit about, just just before we launch into your academia today, the importance of travel. I mean you mentioned there, you know, from Taz to Perth to the UK, what do you think you learn, or did you learn much from from travel and different, different cultures and different outlooks.

Naomi Walsh: 10:05

Yeah, certainly a broadening of the and I have wondered about this, how you can actually achieve that without going anywhere and I'm not sure. But I think the broadening of perspectives, you know, forming new relationships and networks where you go, that certainly, and those networks stood me well as I traveled and moved around and it's also something that I've sort of fought with me back to Tasmania. But I think that that perspective and working in different areas of where, areas where you didn't necessarily have the, the expertise, but you had the, the grounding in those areas to be able to flex and change and and do new and different types of work in different settings. When, when I went to the UK, I was working in a consulting business, I had three telephone numbers when I went to the UK and I sort of saved them. I had a small child at home as well, but it was like I saved those calls up and made each of them and you know, I got work through through each of those, through the power of those networks, and it was such an opportunity to to do different types of work and work with some fantastic people.

Naomi Walsh: 11:13

I think that I love to to work with people that that I guess have shared values and shared enthusiasm, shared passion for having an impact and making a difference, and I think that you can find those wherever you go, wherever you travel to, to gain those connections and and do good work with people. So I think that's yeah, I'm a very passionate Tasmanian now, as you can, as you will work out. So I love living and working in Tasmania now and I think that that was probably a renewed passion for my home. Having travelled away as well, you get a greater appreciation of what is on offer in your home place that you might take for granted when you're off to seek those new or broader horizons.

Sinead Donovan: 12:00

Yeah, look, I'm dying to hear a little bit more about what Tasmania is like, because it's a place I've never been but I'd love to hear. But your, your your discussion there about travel and the importance of that. With your work now, you're obviously engaged with these students very much. The next gen, as I call them, the next gen of accountants and the next gen of leaders. Do they have the drive, passion for travel that that maybe we did? Or? Or how have their, have their interests changed? Have their, has their outlook changed? Because, because we're the ones that need to change with them, because they are the future. So talk to me a bit about that generation.

Naomi Walsh: 12:38

Yeah, I think the, I think the generation that are coming through as students now, I guess one of the things that I noticed is that they're well equipped to adapt and change.

Naomi Walsh: 12:48

So their, their experience so far of the world has been one where, you know, digital and technology has been a big part of their, their journey, both in their education and their lives.

Naomi Walsh: 13:01

And I find that some of the messaging that comes through to young people in schools at all stages is that this idea that you will have, you know, have many careers in in your lifetime, so the career that you train for may not necessarily be well, you may have like 1012 careers in your time. And I think that some of the work that I do with students is also about helping them be adaptable and know that that's to be to be a bit more uncomfortable with uncertainty and ambiguity in what their future and what their careers might be. But also that messaging that you know the, the grounding that you have, the technical skills and the professional skills that you develop, can be transferrable to a whole range of contexts and it's just about exploring that and working out what. What is that good fit for you as an individual? And that's a really important part of having a successful career.

Sinead Donovan: 14:01

Brilliant and tell me a little bit about the course that you teach on. It's is a predominantly the international accounting masters or there's a whole. There's a whole spectrum you involved in.

Naomi Walsh: 14:14

I have the whole range, so we have the from the Bachelor of Business, the economics, the master of professional accounting and MBA programs are some of our programs that a lot of international students are attracted to and attracted to.

Naomi Walsh: 14:30

Coming and living and studying in Tasmania is something that that many of them enjoy, and so some of the programs that I have I have both as academic lead employability. It is within curriculum, so I look at industry engagement opportunities for students, which they love, but also some of those extracurricular programs that they can opt into that are very much based on developing employment skills, career skills and connecting and with industry, hearing from industry, going on internships and those sorts of things which then, particularly for the international students, learning about the differences that might exist between an Australian or Tasmanian work context and their own home country work context and and I think they learn as much, I learn as much as they learn and I love learning about the way that businesses done in their cultures so that I can then learn more about how I can help them to, you know, get work in in Tasmania and Australia through through those connections that I have.

Sinead Donovan: 15:36

And what are some of the cultural differences? You see, naomi, I mean it's fascinating to me that you know we're in this virtual world. You would think that maybe we're getting more and more aligned and more similar, but it's sounds that there still is vast differences. What are some of the challenges or the differences and they're not necessarily challenges there, it's beauty and indifference. And what are some of the differences that you see?

Naomi Walsh: 16:02

I guess it depends on the organisation, but I think in Tasmania and Australia a lot of our organisations have different formats of hierarchies in terms of where you start out in an organisation and particularly in some of the organisations I deal with, even as graduates that there's an opportunity to make an impact and get your ideas heard and be working on projects with a range of different people. That in some other countries that process of graduating, starting your employment and progressing on a career ladder might have a different format and you know there's no, I guess, specific format. Every organisation is different. But I think some of the things that I find with some of the students they'll come to a meeting. They're very surprised at some of the personal connections that we use.

Naomi Walsh: 16:52

In an Australian context that might be a little bit different, where it might be more of a structured business context, you don't sort of have that sort of conversation about each other's children or you know where you saw each other on the weekend and some of that comes from being a small community where a very Tasmania in particular we are a very connected community.

Naomi Walsh: 17:15

So for me I mean I might be on a government board with someone, I might work with someone in the university context, but I also, might, you know, be on a charity event with them or connected through Rotary.

Naomi Walsh: 17:28

So we have, I think the connections are a lot closer here and it is really important.

Naomi Walsh: 17:35

One of the things I share with the students, which can be really hard to navigate as a student, is that idea of the hidden job market and that a lot of the jobs that are filled might be through word of mouth or it might be that you know someone might say to their existing staff do you know anyone else that wants a job? And you know, if you are living in a new community where you don't have those same connections, that can seem really challenging to you know, how do I get a job? You know there is the advertised roles and there might be the ones that are the graduate positions that are really competitive, but there is a whole range of really interesting careers that are sort of that you need to be a little bit more creative in looking for. So helping them to think about what that might be and how they might present themselves to be, you know, get to the top of the pile of CVs to be considered for the roles, which is really rewarding.

Sinead Donovan: 18:28

That's a great takeaway and if there is one takeaway for people to take from this podcast, I think that's it. You know about the as you called it, the hidden job market, but it's really all about relationship builds and network builds, and I was smiling there when you said about the kind of the cultural piece of this kind of the social chit chat. It's very much that in Ireland as well. I think it comes from being maybe a small island. You know you start the business meeting and you might be five or seven minutes into it and you've talked about, you know, the soccer match that your kids may have played together or the rest.

Sinead Donovan: 18:58

So it is very important but, yes, quite unique to some cultures. Tell me a little bit about Tasmania, will you? I mean, it fascinates me. It's funny. You've said a few times Australia and then you've kind of differentiated and said, but in Tasmania so it's almost like it's a little mini-republic, is it?

Naomi Walsh: 19:21

I think we're very proud Tasmania is a very proud of what we have here. We have a really fantastic, you know environment to live in. So we have a lot of bush, a lot of areas that are preserved that we can go to and, you know, hiking and those sort of adventure experiences is a really big thing in Tasmania, like a lot of places. But we are very, very proud and I think, particularly in more recent years, we've had really excellent economic outcomes for the state and that hasn't always been the case. We've often been the state that, when you see the all of the rankings, we have some areas of, you know, lower socioeconomic constraints for individuals. That has been a really sort of put us at the bottom of the rankings for Australia.

Naomi Walsh: 20:07

So I think that we've come from that to be recognised as having some fantastic industries here and as particularly as we've moved into the more environmental focused metrics. Then we've got a hydroelectric system in Tasmania. We've got the clean green image that we really aspire to and it's standing us in really good stead both for the state but also for the university in being a leader in things like the climate accounting and the environmental greenhouse gas emissions measurements, and so we've got a really big focus on some of those areas which I think for students that it's a great to be able to come to Tasmania and learn in an environment where that is the case, that we've got that and we are very proud of that. So, as you might be of Ireland, you know in any environment you become very proud of the place where you live.

Sinead Donovan: 21:08

You do, you do and it's lovely to hear that shining through in what you say there. Sustainability and Sustainable Accounting, or Accounting for Sustainability, it's definitely becoming a hot not just a hot topic but a, you know, a real need for accountants at the moment globally. Do you see that as being a particular passion of the students and where they can, you know, feel a purpose in what they do?

Naomi Walsh: 21:35

I think it's a really, from a career perspective, there's never been a better time to be an accountant. I mean, there's that and there's a couple of barriers around. You know the data and intelligence that we have to run our organisations now. But I think the sustainability more broadly, not just climate and environment, but sustainability more generally, sustainable communities, looking at the way that the SDGs can be used to measure social impact We've got some fantastic leaders in Tasmania on the carbon accounting side of things and also around that social impact. So measuring and for accountants, what it does is it creates a bit of a bridge between what is the traditional good at maths, became an accountant, and someone that might come through their education with a view to social purpose more broadly but can have that sort of transition into accounting. And I think that the pathways into accounting are certainly becoming more diverse. So it's not just the numbers, but it's being able to communicate the numbers. It's about able to you know, take the financial numbers with other things that get measured and reported and that make a difference. So that difference maker I think the catch of that.

Naomi Walsh: 23:04

I think for young people that's really attractive. To make a difference in their world is something that they really seek to do and I think where accounting perhaps might not have been the choice that they might have made at one point. Once they can see those relationships and those opportunities within things like a climate accounting, then that's certainly more attractive. And we certainly see that through CAANZ as well, looking at some of the courses that are coming and how popular they are even in their first offering. So there's certainly a thirst with young people to enter into that, into those areas.

Naomi Walsh: 23:42

So, and I think that some of the things that we still need to do is still sort of demystify and debunk some of the accounting myths that are there. That has, I guess, a different perspective on accounting that might be quite outdated now, that it's not just about, like me with my calculator, adding columns and numbers all day and not really seeing the bigger picture. I think In this era that you get to the actual impact much quicker. You don't have to spend those years doing that manual labour that I did. You get to sort of fast forward into what I think is the more interesting aspects of the career.

Sinead Donovan: 24:24

Yeah, it's fascinating, though, and I don't quite know what we need to do to change those myths, because the myths still are there despite the fact that what we do is so different. I mean, I have two daughters of a 13-year-old and a 15-year-old, and the 15-year-old loves accounting as a subject in school. But she came home the other day and she said you know, it's really annoying Mum, because the teachers keep on referring to accountants being boring. And I was like what, what and you know, but she was kind of standing up for the profession. But I mean, there's just this unconscious bias, or even a conscious bias, being being being sold. So, yeah, we're not boring, we're definitely not all the way to the next, it's funny.

Naomi Walsh: 25:03

It's funny you mentioned that because I've also got daughters in the 18 and 21 and the 18-year-old has just had her first days of doing an accounting degree. So she's actually after many, many years. My husband's an accountant as well. After many years of not wanting to do what Mum and Dad did, she, you know, went and did a course in her college years which was about, and she did a project on running an op shop, like running a charity shop, and that was her business studies project. And for her, that's the thing that actually, after many, many years of being quite determined not to do what Mum and Dad did, she really sparked an interest in her and she will be a fantastic accountant. She's got you know, fantastic logic and all the aptitude of you know, communication skills and ability to logically analyse problems. She just didn't know it and she had to get there of her own accord.

Sinead Donovan: 25:58

Brilliant. So you've produced a future generation accountant.

Naomi Walsh: 26:03

Yeah, one accountant and one dancer.

Sinead Donovan: 26:06

One accountant and one dancer. Oh my goodness, that's fascinating Fair play. So you touched on there the differences, that, or the, I suppose, the broad spectrum that we're being asked to do as accountants now, and sustainability and data and all of that which, with that diversity of asks, I think it makes it even that more important and incumbent on us to ensure that there is, you know, a broad spectrum of entry routes into the profession. Talk to me a little bit, naomi, about your belief in the importance of diversity and what we need to do as a profession to ensure that and the benefits that drive from that.

Naomi Walsh: 26:45

Yeah, this is something that I am really passionate about attracting into the profession People that might not otherwise find their own way to the profession. And in some ways I mean I don't have you know, I don't have there was not any real barriers to why I couldn't do this job. But I probably wasn't growing up, it wasn't necessarily where I was automatically going to land. So I think that, for me, is thinking about and you know, we have some programs through Chudd accountants which I think are really good to plant the seed earlier in terms of the types of people that might get drawn to the profession. So we've got some programs around financial literacy in schools. So I think that's a one that's really important.

Naomi Walsh: 27:26

We've got some, you know, programs that we, the way we actually profile the types of careers in accounting, to represent those so that people can imagine themselves in those roles, because I think that people need young people need a bit of a vision about being able to see themselves in that future vision.

Naomi Walsh: 27:47

So I think that's a really good way to, I guess, attract a diverse range of people into the profession and I think that some of the other avenues so it might not necessarily always be just accounting degrees and I don't think I don't think it will be In Australia traditionally has been really accounting degree into accounting, into Chudd accounting, and that increasingly we're seeing some of the changes, particularly around climate, that it might be a more of a science background.

Naomi Walsh: 28:16

That then. So you've got that science knowledge from background and that's going to be really valuable in teams as we go, as we move forward into accounting. So it is going to take a lot of different profiles, a lot of different aptitudes and natural abilities to shape what is going to be the future of the profession. I think we are a long, long way past that automatically looking at that maths ability and there will be a whole range of you think about some of the tools around AI, logic, problem solving that going to be those skills that we need to look for in young people, not necessarily just maths, which is really important.

Sinead Donovan: 28:59

Yeah, it is really important and it is that ability. We're coming back full circle now to how we started the chat, but it's that ability to pivot and it's that ability to be flexible and I think it's funny. You know, we are portrayed quite often as a profession of being, you know, quite solid, quite boring, you know kind of doing, not you and I, though.

Sinead Donovan: 29:21

No, no, definitely not you and I, but it's interesting, I mean, of all the people that I've talked to and you said it at the start what has been common through all the chats is the ability to change and the, you know, not being frightened of change, and I actually think that accountancy is a profession that really, you know, arms us with that and allows us to navigate that. So, I mean, I think that's going to be huge for the next generation, the financial, Sorry.

Naomi Walsh: 29:51

One thing I was just going to say is one of the most important skills that I talked to students about is the communication skills and the being able to, I guess, have the technical capability as an accounting student or an accounting professional. But unless you can communicate to that, to a range of audiences, we need to be able to communicate to everyone. If you're going to go through an organisation that has a range, you need to be able to communicate with the marketing people to explain. You know the numbers behind that, the financials behind that. So I think communication skills is probably the highest level and necessary school to be able to succeed in the future of accounting careers.

Sinead Donovan: 30:30

Yeah, and be that communication face to face, but also, you know, virtually, and also on social media. I do think that's something that's quite important, that we arm our students with Naomi, your current vice president, and all things going well, you will be president. What are your aims for your year? Have you thought that, that that through, or what do you hope to bring to your year?

Naomi Walsh: 30:55

Thank you, I think that for me, coming from the education perspective, that the opportunities for the attractiveness of the profession is one of the biggest priorities for me in my role on Council and on the board, and I think that that connection and understanding of the students, their experience and what they're looking for is something that we can do to unpack what that attractiveness is going to be. Looking at other, you know the pathways. What are those pathways to get students? And you know that's something we're looking at, to make sure that we can, I guess, not be a barrier to entry to someone who will be a fantastic child accountant. So making sure that we've got the pathways for them to, for people it might be someone later in their career that wants to change direction into child accounting. So making sure that the programs can accommodate that.

Naomi Walsh: 31:55

I think that the actual education program is more innovative and interesting than it's ever been before.

Naomi Walsh: 32:01

So I think there's still opportunities to do that and you know, maybe we're not the first people to say that we've never seen change as quick as what it is at the moment.

Naomi Walsh: 32:11

But I think, you know, looking at the takeout of AI and some of those digital areas, I don't think we know what's going to come next.

Naomi Walsh: 32:21

So making sure that we're, through the education of child accountants, we are really well preparing people for the workforces of today and of the future and to be the, I guess, to make those impacts on the community. So I think for me it's not just about you know commercial organisations, it's about the whole range of roles that accountants have and really important to know that when you have your career, that it's not just about your day job, it's about the impact that you make in the community more broadly and being that person that you know that makes a difference and contribute to a time to charity and mentors the next generation of young accountants as well. So that's, I guess, my main area of focus Definitely, hopefully to be that to someone that people can relate to, that can hear from members about the member experience and you know what, the things that they are seeing in their worlds, and making sure that they are reflected in the way the organisation progresses into the future as well.

Sinead Donovan: 33:29

Well, I have no doubts. I know you will have a huge impact, and you certainly. From my chats with you, there's a you know you're very relatable and there's an awful lot that people can learn from you. So thanks for that and the best of luck with your year, I think it's. I'll be watching with a lot of interest. Look as we begin to wrap up. I could not leave the podcast without asking what is the background? It's stunning the building.

Naomi Walsh: 33:59

Yes, that's the campus where I'm based normally Not today, I'm in Hobart, but it's the campus that we have in Launceston, so which is which is, as you can see, a very nice place to do my work.

Naomi Walsh: 34:12

So from there I do both my Chudbuckhounds vice presidency work mainly and with the university. So it's a fantastic, fantastic place to work. I feel like at this stage of when I was, I guess, putting together my proposal for putting forward as vice president, it felt like it was all coming together and all of the things that I've done, which can seem, I think, when you look over my career, at times I've had trouble explaining to other people and maybe myself how it all fits together. When you've pivoted a number of times, you can start to feel a little bit like a generalist and sometimes that can be hard to explain and put together. But I think that you know my work with the university, the work with Chudbuckhounds, my board director works, having those governance roles. It all feels like it all makes sense from me now, which I'm very happy about a little bit easier to explain.

Sinead Donovan: 35:12

That's great. And yeah, the board God, we haven't even touched on the board roles. I mean, you've moved into non-exec roles and leadership roles and governance roles. Is that something? That is something you're obviously enjoying and, as you say, it's kind of pulling together strands of your experience to date.

Naomi Walsh: 35:29

Yeah, and I think I still remember.

Naomi Walsh: 35:32

I mean, I think I have these moments in my career where for some reason I've just landed and stayed with me. I remember when I lived in Perth and I would have had maybe I don't know up to 10 years experience and hearing for someone who was pursuing a director career. But even at that stage, with 10 years experience, I couldn't even imagine that being me, let alone having a leadership role with Chudbuckhounds. But I think that the governance roles are a great way to pursue and utilise some of the experience and technical skills that I've developed over time and to take a different worldview of an organisation, to sort of have that view and think about what value you can bring to that organisation, which isn't about being on the inside and doing the, I guess, the finance role or whatever that might be, but to actually sort of step outside of that and think about what the value you bring as the director and how you can help that organisation to navigate some of the risks and opportunities that exist for it. So that's been great.

Sinead Donovan: 36:36

Well, that's great. And look, congratulations. Look, what strikes me as I speak to you more and more is that you just speak an awful lot of common sense and with clarity and with a transparency that is needed in current leadership roles. So I have no doubt that your year ahead of you is going to be a huge success. I'm going to ask to leave you with the final word. We've talked a lot about students. We've talked a lot about the attractiveness of the profession. Well, what I mean? We touched on a lot of it, but the elevator pitch, Naomi, for the profession, what would your elevator pitch to the students be?

Naomi Walsh: 37:21

I think that my pitch to the students in particular is and young people early in their careers as well is be open to opportunities and to think about what those opportunities are and sort of evaluate them on their merits, but be prepared to take some risks as well, and that if you make a mistake it's actually okay. You can just change direction. Look at things on its merits and those opportunities there. The opportunities are always there. You've just got to be ready to, I guess, take them when they are there and be able to make that move when they present themselves.

Sinead Donovan: 37:59

Yeah and yeah, everyone's going to make mistakes. You say, just kind of learn from them and move on. In my role.

Naomi Walsh: 38:07

I get asked for a lot of career advice and I'm not entirely sure I'm the best person to give that, because a lot of people when they look at their career they want to see an end point or a point and then how do they get to that? Whereas I have an approach in my career that way. I've taken it step by step, made those decisions and pivoted in when those opportunities are being there, but there was no grand plan that saw from where I started to where I am today for sure.

Sinead Donovan: 38:37

And I think that's going to be ever more important in the fast changing world that we live in at the moment, that it's going to be very hard for people to have an end point that they move to, so they're going to need to be agile and keep going. Naomi, I want to thank you sincerely. You are, without doubt, a difference maker. You've brought so much to the career and to everything you've done so far, and I do wish you the best of luck in your coming year. Hopefully we'll get to cross paths, but look, thank you very much for talking to us today. I really appreciate it.

Naomi Walsh: 39:13

Yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure. I've really enjoyed it and I think I've learned some things about myself along the way. That's great, constantly learning.

Sinead Donovan: 39:21

Constantly learning Listen. Thank you very much, Naomi. Thank you to everybody who has stayed listening with us today. Fascinating chat, as always. This was number four of the Difference Makers podcast. We do have a couple more to do and I look forward to seeing you all again for the next episode. Thanks a million. Bye-bye.