Can you imagine being passed over for a promotion despite being the most suitable candidate? This episode unravels a Reddit tale of such a predicament, igniting discussions on workplace politics, experience versus education, and the false merit of clocking more hours. We challenge the notion that working longer makes someone a better employee and examine the influence of a VP's recommendation in promotion decisions.
In any workplace, feedback is the compass that guides us towards career growth. But what happens when it's missing, leaving us groping in the dark? We talk about this culture of silence and the frustration it spills into the lives of hardworking individuals who are held off salary increments and left in the lurch during interviews. Interwoven in this discourse is the quandary of bidding goodbye on a polite note when you've been 'screwed over' by the very company you served.
We further dissect the role of unconscious bias and its silent, sabotaging effect on those who don't have the luxury to partake in extracurricular activities that forge bonds with the top brass. Imagine missing out on a promotion because you don't smoke and hence, miss out on 'smoke break' networking! To conclude, we zoom in on the 'Sunk Cost Fallacy' and its sway over our decision-making process. Join us as we propose alternative goals, introspect on the 'why' over the 'what', and explore the courage it takes to make bold career moves. It's all about taking a leap of faith and believing in yourself.
Check us out and send us a message on our instagram, Tik Tok and Youtube platforms @the.needle.movers
www.theneedlemovers.xyz
Can you imagine being passed over for a promotion despite being the most suitable candidate? This episode unravels a Reddit tale of such a predicament, igniting discussions on workplace politics, experience versus education, and the false merit of clocking more hours. We challenge the notion that working longer makes someone a better employee and examine the influence of a VP's recommendation in promotion decisions.
In any workplace, feedback is the compass that guides us towards career growth. But what happens when it's missing, leaving us groping in the dark? We talk about this culture of silence and the frustration it spills into the lives of hardworking individuals who are held off salary increments and left in the lurch during interviews. Interwoven in this discourse is the quandary of bidding goodbye on a polite note when you've been 'screwed over' by the very company you served.
We further dissect the role of unconscious bias and its silent, sabotaging effect on those who don't have the luxury to partake in extracurricular activities that forge bonds with the top brass. Imagine missing out on a promotion because you don't smoke and hence, miss out on 'smoke break' networking! To conclude, we zoom in on the 'Sunk Cost Fallacy' and its sway over our decision-making process. Join us as we propose alternative goals, introspect on the 'why' over the 'what', and explore the courage it takes to make bold career moves. It's all about taking a leap of faith and believing in yourself.
Check us out and send us a message on our instagram, Tik Tok and Youtube platforms @the.needle.movers
www.theneedlemovers.xyz
I live, but on a good note. And then next time is fuck companies for doing this, being passed over for a promotion. We all been through it. It is a pen and a neck, and here is a story that we found on Reddit. I've been in the role for two years in the industry for seven and today I was passed over for a promotion. I already see myself over qualified for by a reason grad in his first job, as in overtly as overtaken someone else in their career, where they already see themselves qualified.
Speaker 2:Wait. Ok, can I just pause stuck in here. To be fair, I'm going to give this grad a chance, because I don't know if they like studied and now they've done the masters separately. I'm presuming they're just a fresh grad out of school, Like I think I've studied right for this. Wow, this is one time where experience versus education loses the battle. But anyway it's going. What's the OPC Right?
Speaker 1:it continues on. I say that not in an entitled sense, but because I took the role I'm currently in because the last role I had was technically higher and at a more prestigious firm but the politics that burned me out. So I took this one as an escape route, which is very helpful. Fair enough, it happens.
Speaker 2:They downgraded is what they don't. Yeah, OK.
Speaker 1:We've both been in this role for two years. He started two months before me, but at a lower rank, and was promoted to my level about two months after I started out of the team of eight. We both have standout work ethics in comparison to rest of the team, but my desk is more complex. I log more hours in, take less vacation and the metrics show more productivity. Now can be now. Now. Now I see both you and I trying to say something.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, because I have something in mind.
Speaker 1:I don't think logging in more hours is the is. You know, it's a way of quantifying how good you are at your job, but I'm just going to put it out there, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:OK, two points then, but the first one being he said that the grad started two months before them and then got promoted two months after joining to their level, which means that grad's been in the position for two years. If they're saying they've been in the role for two years, I'm struggling because it means that in four months the grad went from the level below him to his level. I'm assuming the OPs are mad.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, but then yeah.
Speaker 2:But then it did take them, let's say, a year and 10 months to then get a promotion to the higher level. Yeah, is that not the case? So his complaint is that's not recent grad anyways, that's what I wish. I'm a recent grad in that case. But it does sound like this graduate, at the point in when they got the job, was overqualified and had a lower job, and even him, even they're giving them their flowers saying OK, we're both super detailed and we both have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it could be that it could also be that he generally like entered in as a graduate program a high flyer because there is high flyers that join in and, as overtaken, someone else that has been in the industry for longer and has now got a promotion. But the second part.
Speaker 2:I'd say is just basically, they put in more time and hours, right? Is what the OPs saying, yeah, yeah. So if they're saying that, that, honestly, if two people are doing the same job because they're in the same level and one's taking more time to do it, that doesn't mean they're better, right, it just means that they're slower.
Speaker 1:I mean I've got a similar mindset on that. It could mean that it could also mean that maybe they're more of a perfectionist, maybe they're less efficient. Whatever reason because they're more of a perfectionist. It could be that the quality of work is better, so just choose as the argument.
Speaker 2:I'm someone who takes too long. I'm not trying to judge, I'm just saying. Saying that's the reason for you to get promoted over them doesn't really like carry. It just sounds like a state of fact. We shouldn't be digging into the OP. Let's hear their point.
Speaker 1:You're the one digging in. I'm just trying to read the story. This isn't an idea.
Speaker 2:So this is just an event, right, let's hear it, okay.
Speaker 1:Right, so it continues. I'm also more of a point man for the lower levels on the team to come to Runs client calls, because the VP is always unprepared. Well done for throwing the VP under the bus. Always great job. And have been the person to run meetings when the VP is out. So I'm completely baffled at the decision. My monthly reviews have been nothing but stellar. I'm often annoyed because the feedback is all positive and gives me nothing constructive to work on.
Speaker 2:You know what this kind of rings a bell to me, but I'll carry on in the meantime that no, that, I think, does suck, because if it gives you nothing to work on, though it'll be hilarious if they're just hearing it and they're like, oh, that's cool. They're like you could work on this. It's like, nah, I think what you said is I'm amazing at what I do. Like I presume where's my promotion. But if it is the case that they're just not getting executable feedback and it's just keep doing what you're doing and then it doesn't lead to promotion, I'd be frustrated there too. I can understand that.
Speaker 1:So here's the trust me right. The VP told me to apply for this position on the internal career portal when it opened up. Hr called me the next day and said it was basically down to logistics and the interview was basically my team lead and I talking about hobbies and nothing technical. Now that burns right, because you get invited to an interview and your team lead only asks you for your hobbies and nothing about a job. That, but that's not right.
Speaker 2:Wait is this is this the interview for their promotion. Yeah, that would suck because that was like you're building a rapport and they're like that we're not gonna promote you. But thanks for the talk.
Speaker 1:Or, even worse, you make a casual, you make it sound like it's something that is definitely almost like guaranteed, and that's why you have any casual conversation and they come back to you saying, yes, sorry, we're gonna give it to to Johnny, cuz Johnny's doing a better job, and you're like you know what the hell like. Why didn't you ask me the questions?
Speaker 2:That, yeah, that would burn. Okay, go on what?
Speaker 1:else, so it continues on. The two of us are very close and often hang out outside of work, and so I'm generally happy for him, but it doesn't take away the sting about being passed over. I go out on my way to build rapport with everyone. We work with a volunteer. My lunch is every Wednesday, sometimes alone. For the food bank we're partnering up with. I've restarted an internal Network for socializing and volunteering. The fella part during covid, so we're talking about this is quite recent. This is in the last 60 days, by the way, and I've hosted events featuring partners and C-suits While he just coordinated the softball team. I Love my firm, I love my team, the job, the co-workers, and I'm feeling deflated and an underappreciated and considering Taking a job elsewhere. Oh, wow, okay, that's a. I asked directly for feedback and the department head gave me lip service, saying that I'm doing Everything right, I should continue doing the things that I'm doing, and he sees a promotion in the horizon, basically Confusing me even more, because on paper, I was the shoe in and don't have an explanation for being passed over. Now I'm thinking about, like Simba and the Mufasa here and the first are going. Simba, you see the horizon. Everything is yours.
Speaker 2:You're gonna have to wait. Firstly, my first is going to have to die. Scars gonna take over for a bit in the middle. You know the high is gone speed and then, after maybe a couple years of Coon and Madonna, it's gonna be yours. Just wait your turn. I think they said that they were okay. Firstly, they sent for their friend. It seems like they're like we hang out now. That's definitely their colleague because, like I'm fine with him, we hang out outside the work, but they only volunteer for the softball team and I'm doing everything cuz like those are soft skills. It's good, it's great and like exposure. But that ain't your job. That's a benefit. Anyone could do that. If you like doing it, just do it. But yeah, I do feel like they have been shaded in the way and I hate the ambiguity when, like things like that happen right when people come and they were like oh yeah, don't worry about it, it's coming, just keep doing what you're doing. But I have been doing what I'm doing. Yeah, do more of it forever. I mean enough, ever for now, until we figure out when we're gonna give you this until the horizon comes. But let me just finish off.
Speaker 1:There's three more letters, so three more lines. Yeah, my cousin told me he could get me a job paying 25k more at our rival, which I'm considering. But I've developed relationships here and was enjoying the culture. But it doesn't spell future development If I'm being passed over by recent grads in the first job. I think it's. It's a fair comment here, right, because here it encapsulates a lot about what we go through in the corporate environment sometimes Promises the lack of feedback, the lack of straight talk, because if you get invited in that At a personal development review you ask for feedback and all you're getting is positive stuff, then you're not given the opportunity to actually develop and that sucks. That really sucks. I feel for this guy. I.
Speaker 2:Do I think the line about it being a 25k option increase in salary that they're second guessing and that tells you the culture of a company, the fact that they can hold people off from such a salary increase Just by giving them promotions when necessary, and the promotion might not be to that amount. They're like. I like it here, I want to be here. However, it is kind of what he's saying in. The shortest version of this is I feel like it's a pistachio that a recent graduate got promoted over me. That's the line. Everything else is the details of the line and still I'm questioning the words recent, but it doesn't matter. I can understand why that would be Super frustrating. I do get why you consider leaving and what it's hard. It's a sticky one still to give like advice for this one.
Speaker 1:I Mean, I love the comments that come after. The first comment is I live, but on a good note, and then next time is fuck companies, for it's not the contrast. Leave on a good note and then this is what resonates, right.
Speaker 2:I know people have been for, of course, but, yeah, it is true, fuck companies for doing that. I don't. And if they're not gonna give any feedback as to why, like even the manager, give an inclinus to you know why, maybe that one Okay, we're hearing it from the OP side. I have no idea what the graduate would say to be like. Maybe there's a reddit post somewhere that says I just got promoted over someone who's been in the company for years and here's how I did it. I should have looked for it, but, um, yeah, I don't know what they did, but it does, in that it like in the details, it does still seem like the person who got promoted was deserved of a promotion. Right, no, we're in it. Did it sound like they weren't deserving of it? They even perform over, performed their role, got promoted quickly and then kept performing to the point that they can understand it and then got another promotion. It's just the fact that they've managed to do this promotion prior to someone who's the experienced, tenured, let's say, in the industry, let alone the company. Well, not in the company, yeah, in the industry person, I think for me.
Speaker 1:What really kind of threw me off here was the was a bit about the interview right. Like you get called in for an interview, if there is two people competing for one job, you need to make sure that that interview and that process is done in such a way that is professional, standardized and comparable. Like you can't invite someone in and have a casual chat and a casual conversation, especially if you're gonna screw them over the next day and not give them the job.
Speaker 2:That's why he had the casual conversation. It was like none of this matters. Tell me about your life. Oh yeah, good, good, throw away, don't worry about it. You can leave now.
Speaker 1:Send in my favorite, you're selling someone off for failure, right. That's really fucked up in a way, and and I think that's the reason why people get really annoyed with companies and they get really annoyed with the corporate culture, yeah, and then you end up having grievances.
Speaker 2:This is the foundations of grievances and it's a shame because it doesn't sound like this person's bad, like they build rapport, they do, and all these additional things. So it sounds like someone that did value in the team and the fact that their feedback isn't to do more or do better. They're saying do what you do, then, yeah, part of it. I'm assuming well, we have to assume all we have is this post, but I'm assuming that if they had, like you're saying, the clear comparative Understanding of, like a comprehensive interview process and stuff where they could see shortcomings or get feedback that's beyond to keep doing what you're doing then they'd know what to work on. But giving them nowhere to go and Just saying, do this, you're doing it right, and then not promoting them and saying, yeah, do it, you're doing it right. It's like for at what to? What vein? Like to what's the goal here? My goal was the promotion. I'm not getting it, they're getting it. Should I graduate again? It is a bit of a it sucks. I guess it does sound like it sucks. Yeah, leave, fuck it Can leave the company. Go, start your own company. If you're asking what to do, get, get out, start a new company. Go to the rival, get 25k more and then jump back in and say I want 25k more. You get 50k more. Be rich, hire us as consultants, you're welcome.
Speaker 1:I mean, I feel for this guy right, because I'm not. I'm not sure if you've been a similar position about I. I know that I have like not not letter by letter, but definitely I have had a similar story, and also mine probably not been in the last 60 days, but probably the last three years whereby I probably had the best year of my career. I had work on some pretty Expensive projects for pretty much like 12 months during the period of covid, where Not only I had done my responsibility, but I had gone well far and above beyond it. So I'm talking about not just managing a project, but also managing stakeholders, building up a vision, building up the future, a future proofing, proofing at the, the, the workplace I was working in, and this is not just my opinion, but the reason why I know that the work I've done was appreciated is because the place that that we work in we've got, we've got rankings right. So every year they assess every single employee within a, within a given business, and they give them let's call it scores. Some people will fall in for the call, like you know, the top of the top, the, the very top notch. Then there is people that will fall somewhere in the middle and then there's people that follow a fall in the bottom fairly standard ranking system. That is also done in McKinsey and other different places and I knew for a fact that I was right at the top. And when you're right at the top, that's when you give an opportunities because you know you're really performing at a level where you're showing the leadership capabilities and you're showing the, the flare of the next level. So what that means is that you either get given an opportunity to step up Into the more I interwrote that gives you more responsibility or you're given the opportunity perhaps of going to to panel and interview for the higher level job. And I have all this plan with my manager. At the time I knew that I was supposed to be going to the, to the panel, and I was preparing for it so that I could interview for the for the higher level job. And then suddenly, between one week and the next, the whole management team changes, so my manager changes and my manager's manager changes. So there's the people who don't know you and, like I, practically get people that don't know me. But, strictly speaking, whatever is decided at those, those talent management review, is supposed to be upheld because you know, you're supposed to be relying on the work that the people before you have done, but that wasn't done, and the conversation that I received was well, you know what? I? I don't really know who you are and really For me to be sure that the next step is right for you, what you're gonna have to do is go back to work on the operations, go back to the shift work, prove yourself, and once you prove yourself, we can have a conversation about being stepped up and going to panel.
Speaker 2:We can have a conversation.
Speaker 1:And the conversation and the conversation. Imagine how I felt after like a year of bloody hard work where, like you know, like I'm not blowing my trumpet, but I know I've done fucking good work that year and I was proud of it and I still look back at it as the highlight of my career so far and then being told sorry, we're not gonna proceed forward with the plans and what we're gonna do is that we're gonna put you back in the operations, you're gonna go back to shift work and then maybe we can have a conversation. I was like Fuck that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was thinking fuck this shit, I know. I was thinking of that Reddit post where it says why the fuck do companies do this? Is that you read? I feel like you typed it yourself.
Speaker 1:And obviously you know you don't burn any bridges, but you can't help but feel quite frustrated by it all, and I know it happened to me, I know it probably happened to someone else and it is kind of like this cycle of shit that keeps happening and I'm not sure why. Companies keep getting things wrong, basic things, but they do.
Speaker 2:Okay, I knew an entry-level manager who was skilled enough to become a manager and it was agreed by their own manager like that they were going to promote them to the next level. And then their manager got a new job in a different department and therefore, like yourself, they had a whole new, fresh manager and their previous manager had set them up and was just ready to put them through the promotion package. And the next one was like oh yeah, we'll do it, don't worry, it's coming. Six months pass, a year passes. And then that same one is like there's the window, and he's chasing like, hey, what do you need from me? I'll give you all that. It's just I'm doing it, I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll do it. And then they're like oh, I didn't realize the time had elapsed, so they're just now, they're just burning because they keep getting manager-level work. So they operate. And this is a sign I've seen with promotions you operate at the next level. This person is operating at the manager level, even though they're an entry-level manager and in some aspects even higher, like senior manager level. They just keep on loading them work, but at the same normal salary that they're already getting and for an unforeseen amount of time. It's not sustainable because, one, they're doing too much. In fact I'd say they have to operate beyond the level to be proven to be on the level. So if you're an entry-level manager, you show signs of senior management, but you also show consistent signs of manager and that's when you'll be promoted. But it shouldn't take two years. So I'm watching this person like, when are you going to burn out? And then two, I can already hear the signs of I'm going to take it and leave. Like this. Now it's a whole culture that they don't want to be in. But yeah, the entry-level manager is what was basically looking for an exit down the line because they didn't trust the company culture they knew in that aspect it was their like at the time manager, the new one that had taken over, that was their blocker. But still, you have a promise you won't be able to leave. You have a promise, you work towards something. And oh, one more part to this story is that that entry-level manager was on track for the promotion originally and then did a lateral move because they were like, oh, I want to go into this one and then I should quickly get promoted. That move has delayed them by two years, basically the lateral move timing, because if they'd gone up then they would have. You know, there's no positions open at that level. So they're like, oh, I let me go into the department I want to be in and then I can get promoted. Hit them in the face, basically.
Speaker 1:It's a shame, that's hard right. I feel for the guy honestly. I feel for the guy already, whichever one it is, and it sucks right, Because it is not just the fact that your manager changes and whatever was in line for you suddenly like disappears, but it's also the false promises and it's the lack of direction and, I think, the lack of transparency and the inability or unwillingness to have a transparent conversation and maybe put things as they are, it's really frustrating and it just leads people to then follow onto a road which is unfulfilling and unwilling to cooperate. And that's how you get to a space where you get people that are quietly quitting because they're no longer willing to take on the bullshit that they've been presented. And you know we're talking about like fairly black and white cases which are very obvious. And then there is the cases which are less obvious. So there is perhaps the corporate monkey, let's call it, that may get promoted because they go play golf or they go play tennis or they go play some other sport, or maybe they take a pint with the manager, whereas the person that maybe has a family and has to go back home and take care of the kids or take care of childcare, etc. They may not have that time for the extracurricular, but they lose their face time with the management. And because they lose their face time with the management, then they're not able to take on the opportunities because they've been given to those that spend time socializing. And this is, I think, a huge part of the Love that Stuck, which is the book that we discussed a few weeks back.
Speaker 2:What I was thinking and I want to look into this, maybe not in this episode is the smoke break bonus. Oh, yeah, yeah, you understand exactly what I mean. If you're able to be in that area where everyone's having a smoke break, you might have one to one time with your manager, your skip manager, your skip manager, whomever and you're able to build more of a rapport just by being in that area where people stand and wait and talk around and then you have, like, what am I missing? Now, when you think about the smoke break bonus, or when I think about it, I always thought about you know, oh, they get extra time, you know, extra lunch breaks, extra more time where they don't have to work. But if you think about it in the network, yeah, exactly, from the networking point of view, it was key when I was in consulting as well, because that's where all my clients would go. That's where you get to have the off the cuff conversations and be like, okay, no bullshit, what's fucking up? Versus in the office, where it's much more of a formal feel and you don't really get to have that breakaway and that literally is like a breakaway. So I'm thinking about the smoke break bonus that people might get, where they built reports like that and we don't in the OP story. Even we don't know what they've done. It might have just been that. It might have been that one difference is what gave them the edge of promotion. It sucks, but it's the unconscious bias, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is the unconscious bias, and I think that's the reason why companies are working so hard to try to remove that unconscious bias. But it's so hard to eradicate and to make sure that we have a fair workplace and I think we're miles away from being able to have somewhere that is fair and somewhere where the rules are being applied equally and in a way that it respects people. I fully agree, but anyway, I've been said all of that. I'm not going to read any of the advice that I found on this post because, like you know, some of the advice is hilarious, some of it is kind of like worrying. Seriously, it makes me worried about some of the things that people say.
Speaker 2:Now I'm curious. You look like a yellow bird, what's that? One from Sesame Street? Sesame Street.
Speaker 1:I thought you meant Twiddy.
Speaker 2:No, big Bird, because you're wearing bright yellow. What is his name? It's the big yellow Muppet. God damn it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yellow Muppet Shut the fuck up, oh the fuck you.
Speaker 2:Is it Big Bird? I want to find it. I'm looking it up. Yeah, you're Big Bird. You look like Big Bird today. Oh my God, that should be the thumbnail for the fucking episode, just.
Speaker 1:But okay, going back to the example that I was giving earlier of my story, I think it's quite easy retrospectively to look back and think I could have fallen trap of the Suncos fallacy really, really easily. And that's the first knowledge that I'm going to bring up today, because it's really easy for me to look back and think on the year that I had, think about the amount of effort that I put in, the amount of transformation that I brought, the results that I achieved, and think hang on a second, maybe I should stay here a little bit longer and try to see whether I can get any results. So easy to do that. And I think this is important because I got lucky in a way that I always had two goals at that time. My first goal was to get promoted and my second goal was to continue In, I guess, expanding my career in the continuous improvement area. But what I didn't realize is that by having these two goals, it's actually something that they teach you a marathon level. So at the marathon, they always tell you to have three or four goals. Right? The first goal for me, for example, is to finish the marathon under four hours. Now, what I'll make it or not, does a different question. The second goal is to do under five hours Okay. The third goal six hours. The third goal is to finish it without stopping. Okay, because I think it's a fair go, like if you can run the whole marathon. I think that's. That's quite an achievement, at least in my mind. And the fourth goal is to just fucking finish it. It doesn't matter like how I get that, I just want to get to the end.
Speaker 2:Okay, so finish without stopping and then just just finish the marathon. Yeah, that's the six, seven hour. You're like it's been done a lot. No, I'm on my way.
Speaker 1:You know what, like I'm not even gonna say I shouldn't say this, but like, at the end, if you get injured and if you fold behind for any reasons, if you can't make it, there is like what they call a party bus, so you can jump on the party bus and the Wait what it's called a party bus. Yeah, and you see that called the sweeper bus or the party bus I like to call it.
Speaker 2:No, I like party bus. I just think there's someone doing this the whole way just pumping the chest and they're like I don't want to party, I want to see you shut up. Also quick question with marathons. Do you think there's someone out there who started a marathon like run 10 meters, went home to canapes, came back the next day no, but 10 meters. They're still running the same. They're just like hey, I will finish. I'm on my goal number four finish it at some point. There's no one that does that. No, or is that what we've I've been doing this whole time? I've always got a number in my back Just waiting for my time to finish.
Speaker 1:You'd be happy to run around a half a marathon last Saturday, by the way, on now on an injured Achilles, yeah wait, wait, before you continue.
Speaker 2:I thought you said you weren't gonna run it because of your injured Achilles here, so I got there I said I'm gonna walk it, I'm gonna walk it. I'm gonna walk it.
Speaker 1:They warm up, started and I started running it. How's your heel? It is good. Actually, eyes, it is good. I thought it was gonna be a lot worse. It is good.
Speaker 2:This is literally one of those times where we have to put the time the like small text Do what we say, not what we do. Just risking yourself. This guy's running the London marathon. He's like now I need to do this half marathon too. You should have taken it some way easy.
Speaker 1:I'm like.
Speaker 2:David Gorgon's out here fucking people's lives, but you're going.
Speaker 1:But the point I'm trying to make here is it's really easy to fall into the Suncos fallacy, but what's important is that I go lucky in a way, for a macho goals. But if we always have goals that are aligned, so having the first goal, second goal, told goal in our career, then it's a little bit easier to make decisions that are right for us. And, and Having the second goal of wanting to work in continuous improvement helped me, taylor, what I was searching for when I was looking for an alternative. So that means that when I found the role of being a linsek sigma black belt for finance, that fell hand in hand With what my second goal was. So that means that I could just cut my losses, get rid of the Suncos fallacy and move on to my second goal, which at the time gave me more fulfillment than potentially waiting For God knows how long to be able to reach my first goal. And it's like, in those two things together allows you to make better decisions of Hank. And that's why I Think right now at least, I always think it's not just about, like you know, what's my goal, but also what's my alternative goal number one, what's my alternative goal number two, and making those better decisions and having those, those different alignments Helps me move forward or move sideways even, because you know moving sideways is not it's not bad, and be effective at it.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's, it's what your what's your goal, but what's your overarching goal, which drives the free, the levels of distinction? Because that's why, when it comes to it, you're like finish the marathon. The whole goal is ending the marathon and the overarching goal might be like personal health and fitness or whatever. That's just a milestone that proves you'll run the right path, is what it sounds like right, and in that case, when it comes to the sunk cost, that's of like a specific route. But that's, that's the how. It's like the how. Yeah, if it's what, why? How? That's the how. You know why you're doing it, which is why you're on the first place, and you know what you want to achieve, which is the end goal. But that's the how is okay. Promotion, it's literally one path. If the goal is beyond that, then it's, it's, it's an inconvenience at most, and it's yeah, you shouldn't bury time, more time to try and attain that inconvenient path now, if necessary, if it's too hard, or ambiguous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like what you just mentioned actually, because so when the COVID first started I think someone's seen next started the book club on start with. Why? So? Basically the idea that book club or his own book. And but there was one one really interesting element that that he mentioned, which was companies that had a really strong why I managed to overcome the challenges that COVID brought, and Companies that had a really strong what struggled to overcome the challenges, and he gave a couple of examples. I don't remember what examples were, but basically people that companies that focused on what they provided as a service Struggled to think outside of the box on how else they could deliver it. So for example, if you were a restaurant thinking you know my what is a Is serving clients that come to the restaurant, that restaurant will really be stuck in the deal of if I haven't got clients, they come to my restaurant. I'm not able to. You're stuck in the bubble of that yeah correct, whereas you think about why, which is, you know, providing people with an experience of dining, then perhaps you start thinking, okay, if I'm not able to learn the restaurant, how else can I do it? And that's when you start thinking of different house and different what's. So you can have a meal prep delivery service, you could have ingredients been delivered to customers, you could have a recipe books, but that allows you to think slowly, different, and it allows it to be more effective and overcome challenges. So, yeah, sorry, a little bit of a side tangent.
Speaker 2:It opens up more pathways is what it does, right yeah yeah. Okay, interesting, I Shall try and utilize this and not have some cost fallacy, though it's so easy to say and I do think I practice it naturally. But it's also there's times when you're aware, like I'm sure I've messaged you, like I know this doesn't matter, but fuck, fuck the companies for doing this to us. As that reddit commented on the op's post, I feel like it's, it's tricky, but it yeah, once you have the bigger picture, it's, it's a, it's a knowledge stack, it's a stack that you can use to your soup, to your benefit and have a super from it.
Speaker 1:I mean it's. It's difficult at the time, right, because you just that sitting down the emotions is like if you're at a casino betting I keep betting on the red, hoping that eventually, like you, will get there and you never get it. You're like, oh, maybe next time, maybe next time, and you know it's.
Speaker 2:That's a great shout about companies being like casinos. We'll look into that at some point. I like, I like what I'm hearing here and also dead up career paths being a bet that you're making and they're like I think you need to leave. You're like, oh, I need to take my savings and your savings is the difference.
Speaker 1:But I think this brings us to the end of the episode, and I like that you're dancing because I'm gonna do that in the real. We hope that you've enjoyed this episode. It's been all about being passed over for a promotion, something that has definitely happened to me, it's happened to mark and maybe it's happened to anyone else that is listening in, but, as always have been your host, valeric master, joined by my co-host, mark Jason's, and, as always, till next time, adios.