GOAT #49: Conveying Truth in Fiction and Family Devotions with Tim Shoemaker

Are you a homeschooling family that struggles to find devotions that teach spiritual truth but also hold your kids' attention? Do you wish you could find clean, riveting fiction for your children to read that doesn't shy away from real-life characters, but is also well-grounded in living out genuine faith?

In this episode, Erin and Amanda speak with Tim Shoemaker, author of twenty books and a popular speaker at conferences and schools around the country. With over twenty-five years working with youth, he is able to relate to his reading (and listening) audience in a very unique way... creating object lessons that convey spiritual truth as well as writing mystery, adventure, and suspense that is clean, powerful, and definitely not “hokey” Christian fiction. Tim is all about helping kids grow to be men and women of faith and character … and about encouraging the parents who love them.

Novels by Tim Shoemaker:
The High Water Novels, a five-book series for Focus on the Family targeted primarily at 12-14-year-olds. Escape From the Everglades,  and Every Hidden Thing, the first two books in the series, are already available. Book three, The Second Storm, comes out in the Spring of 2023.

A contemporary suspense novel, Code of Silence  (book 1 of The Code of Silence Novels), was named in the “Top Ten Crime Novels for Youth” by Booklist, and is followed by Back Before Dark and Below the Surface.

Devotional books by Tim Shoemaker:
Smashed Tomatoes, Bottle Rockets...: And Other Outdoor Devotionals You Can Do with Your Kids

Mashed Potatoes, Paint Balls and Other Indoor/Outdoor Devotionals You Can Do With Your Kids by Tim Shoemaker

Tim Shoemaker on Instagram, @timshoemaker1

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Erin: Hello and welcome back to GOAT Homeschooling with Erin and Amanda. Today we have a guest with us and his name is Tim Shoemaker. And Tim is a, an very accomplished author and. Speaker and has all kinds of things in the works, uh, right now. And we are gonna chat with him specifically today about the devotionals that he's written for families and, uh, some of his fiction books that he is written that are just fantastic.

[00:00:39] Erin: So welcome, Tim. 

[00:00:41] Tim Shoemaker: Hey, I'm glad to be here. Aaron and Amanda, thank you. . 

[00:00:44] Erin: Yeah. So Tim, tell us a little bit about how you got started writing, uh, devotions or writing in general. 

[00:00:53] Tim Shoemaker: Ah, okay. So devotions. Um, I was a struggling dad with three boys trying to get something that connected with them, and I probably had a half a bookshelf full of these devotional books.

[00:01:05] Tim Shoemaker: You know, you buy one, you think. Gonna just do it. And it wasn't really holding their attention. And, uh, so I was stop and start with family devotions as a dad. And, and I wanted to be better at that. And, uh, one time I actually tried this, like this coin trick. It was kind of turned into an object lesson and they were like, oh, with me, I was like, huh, okay.

[00:01:25] Tim Shoemaker: That was good. And so I did another and another, you know, in the, uh, uh, the next couple of weeks it came up and, uh, they were engaged and then I started getting, , the boys saying, Hey dad, when are we doing family devotions? And it was like, I realized, oh my goodness, something has changed here. And so that started this journey of, uh, making up or finding object lessons that you can tie a little nugget of spiritual truth to.

[00:01:54] Tim Shoemaker: And, uh, That is, that's where that started. And, uh, I was actually writing fiction trying, and, uh, was at a writer's conference and talking to the editor and I pitched the idea and he was like, no, we don't do that. What else do you have, ? I'm like, are you kidding? This is why I came here, you know? And, um, And I told 'em about these devotionals I had, cuz I had started writing them down.

[00:02:18] Tim Shoemaker: N not thinking about publishing them, but I didn't want my voice to struggle like I did, uh, as a dad someday. I thought, well, if I write 'em down, they'll be able to use 'em. And anyway, that was the start of um, uh, publishing devotionals. 

[00:02:31] Erin: Excellent. So before you jumped on here, Amanda and I were just talking a little bit because, uh, she, she was saying she wasn't as familiar with doing a family devotion.

[00:02:42] Erin: Um, I grew up in a home where my dad was a believer. Um, he attempted those things with us growing up, but there wasn't anything, like you said, that really. Stuck as far as a, a regular time that we did that as a family, it would be kind of start and stop. And I kind of see that happening in my own home with my kids now, where it's a start and stop kind of thing.

[00:03:03] Erin: So, Amanda, do you wanna talk a little bit about what you were saying before he. 

[00:03:08] Amanda: Well, I just wanted to ask about, um, the importance of doing devotionals and, you know, when, when people, I was not raised, um, doing devotional, I was not raised in the church at all. And so whenever I did have church, church exposure, it was with my grandparents and so they didn't do, it wasn't a regular.

[00:03:26] Amanda: Basis. And so I would like for you to talk a little bit about, you know, the importance of doing devotionals, what it looks like, you know, the logistics of it, you know, how that looks for your family, or how it commonly looks for families and what that means, you know, like the, the nitty gritty of it, what it means and what it is.

[00:03:43] Tim Shoemaker: Okay, so starting kind of at the, at the beginning, you know, why, why do we do this? It's a chance to, we can make it seem pretty informal, but it's a chance to teach our kids about God and the principles he's given us to live by. And, uh, Deuteronomy talks about that, uh, Deuteronomy four and six and 11. We see that in a number of spots in the Old Testament that were to be teaching our kids about God.

[00:04:06] Tim Shoemaker: And, um, but you know, as a guy is a. I mean, I got it. We were supposed to do that, but it was always that why factor, the more we understand why, the easier it makes to do it. Mm-hmm. and, um, in Psalms 78 got my, uh, Bible right here. Uh, let me read you a couple verses in Psalms 78, and this helps us understand why it's so important.

[00:04:28] Tim Shoemaker: Listen to like these four positive payoffs to teaching our kids about God. I'm gonna jump. Um, the middle of verse four says, we will teach the next generation the praiseworthy deeds of the Lord, his power and the wonders he has done. He decrees statutes for Jacob and established the law in Israel, which he commanded our forefathers to teach their children.

[00:04:50] Tim Shoemaker: Oh, there's that reference to Deuteronomy, right? And now here it's telling us why. So the next generation would know them, even the children yet to be born. That's our. . Right. And they in turn would tell their children, then they would put their trust in God and they would not forget his deeds, but they would keep his commands.

[00:05:11] Tim Shoemaker: It would not be like their forefathers, a stubborn, rebellious generation whose hearts were not loyal to God, whose spirits were not faithful for quick payoffs. It's so that the next generation knows. If we don't tell 'em, they won't know. And um, Bennett says, so they would put their trust in God yes, for salvation, but there.

[00:05:32] Tim Shoemaker: Huge factor of trusting God in his way, that we can rely on God's word and do it the way God tells us to. So they learned to trust and so they would, uh, obey, they would keep his commands and not forget because it's so easy to forget God and his commands if we don't keep that in front. So that's kind of the why.

[00:05:51] Tim Shoemaker: And, uh, how does it, what does it look like? It can look, you could do so many different things. You could read a fiction book to 'em that's, Some meat to it, right? You can do that. Uh, during the week you can, uh, do all kinds of different things. But what I'm kind of suggesting with this stuff, at least once a week, you do some kind of an object lesson, some kind of an activity that everybody can get involved in.

[00:06:17] Tim Shoemaker: They don't have to be long. In fact, the older the kids get, the shorter you make 'em. Okay? And so we can talk more about that, but. The whole idea is you do this once a week thing and you're trying to get one nugget of truth across the kids. It's not a Bible study, it's a devotional. So it's one truth.

[00:06:39] Tim Shoemaker: We're gonna get 'em, and that sticks in their mind. So whatever this activity is that we do, and then we tie that nugget of truth at the end, it just like itches them together in their mind and they remember. And it is so, it's so powerful that way. So, Is that, is that kind of help just a little bit to give you an idea, you know, what we're doing and, and why?

[00:07:00] Amanda: Yeah, it does. Thank you. Yeah. 

[00:07:02] Erin: Yeah. I like that you distinguish between a devotional and a bible study because I think, um, a lot of times people. Just think that they're one and the same. Mm-hmm. and to have that distinguishing mark because, you know, as we're, we're homeschool moms and we're trying to get all the lessons for our children in through the day, and we really want a lot of us, you know, coming from a faith background of, of Christianity, we really want to incorporate.

[00:07:30] Erin: Um, devotions or bible study into what we're teaching. So you are talking about doing that in a way that's object lessons. So could you walk us through a little bit more of a detail of what that might look like? 

[00:07:41] Tim Shoemaker: Sure. So all kinds of things you do. Let, let me just, we'll go over an example of one or two or three, whatever you'd like.

[00:07:46] Tim Shoemaker: So, uh, there's one that we called, where am I? And so what we do is we take the kids on a little mystery ride. So you're gonna pile 'em in the car and you've got a, like a scarf for each one of 'em because you. Blindfolded. You do it at night and the whole idea is you've mapped out a little route that you can make maybe three or four stops, and when you get to that stop, you tell the kids to lift up their blindfold.

[00:08:11] Tim Shoemaker: You're gonna give 'em 10 seconds to figure out where you are. They're to write that down a little piece of paper and in a pencil that they've got, but don't tell their brother or sister because we're gonna see how many they get. Right. Okay. So you stop at the first stop and, and you say, okay, blindfold.

[00:08:26] Tim Shoemaker: where are we? And you know, they're gonna write down, uh, whatever. They come up with your job as a parent. So mom or dad or grandma or grandpa, whatever their job is. Y you wanna fool the kids. And so, uh, for me, when we did it, you know, it was, it was behind the grocery store. You know, you nestle in by the loading dock and the dumpster.

[00:08:46] Tim Shoemaker: And when they take that blindfold off, this is an angle of the place they're not used to seeing. Or back in an industrial park, uh, something like that. They don't know where they are. , we do these few stops, stop at a fast food place afterwards, get 'em, fries and something to drink and they say, okay, let's see you to the list and uh, show me where you think, where'd you think we were the first place?

[00:09:07] Tim Shoemaker: And the second and the third. All you're looking for is one place where one of the kids wasn't sure. And now you zero in. Okay. Now, when you didn't know where we were, were you. and their answer's probably gonna be no. Well, no. Come on you. You could be honest with me. Did you feel like wrestling the wheel away from mom or dad?

[00:09:29] Tim Shoemaker: Or did you feel like jumping outta the car and finding your way home? And of course they're gonna say no. Oh, why? Why didn't they do that? So what would the obvious answer be? Because they trusted mom and dad . Yeah. Because mom and dad knew where they were going. They trust mom and dad. Mom or dad's at the wheel right now.

[00:09:46] Tim Shoemaker: We transitioned to that nugget of spiritual. Is, is it just like life? There's times in life where you're not gonna know exactly where you are or why, and you have no idea where you're heading next. You know, our human tendency is to wanna grab control or, or find our own way, make something happen. But you know what?

[00:10:06] Tim Shoemaker: Just like you trusted mom or dad because you knew that we knew what we were doing, we knew where we were. You need to trust God those times when you wanna jump out of the car and find your own way. Remember God knows where you are. He knows why. He knows exactly where you're going next. So we trust him just like you did mom and dad.

[00:10:23] Tim Shoemaker: So just little things like that. And of course, every time we're gonna share some scripture with him, but you see, we're just getting, we're just getting one point across and that tends to stick with them. Mm-hmm. I love that. That's awesome. You, that is So yeah, there's all kinds of, all kinds of stuff. Yeah.

[00:10:40] Tim Shoemaker: I mean, so we'll blow up an egg in the microwave. We'll smash tomatoes, um, electrocute a pickle, uh, do things with rat traps and a trip to the grocery store and. , all kinds of things that are kind of crazy, but they really get the truth across. So, or so we can talk about more of those or whatever you'd like.

[00:11:01] Erin: That's amazing. Yeah. Well, I just love how even in you telling it, it's engaging. You know, I'm, I'm kind of riveted here, sitting there like, okay, well it's gonna come next. And what's part of the story, and I love that you're talking about just focusing on one simple truth because I think a lot of times, uh, as homeschool moms, we get.

[00:11:20] Erin: Mindset that we have to focus on the big picture all the time. Mm-hmm. But breaking it down into these little nuggets of truth and pointing them towards the word and who God is in the word. Um, I think I just, I, I love that. . Uh, one of the things that I was gonna ask you as we're talking is, you know, you're coming at this from a dad's perspective, so could you maybe speak to some of the dads that are listening and, and help encourage them?

[00:11:46] Erin: Because I feel like a lot of times, you know, when I've talked to my own husband about doing devotions or Bible studies, there's a time crunch feeling of it's. You know, we don't have time because we've got, the kids are done with school, we've got a hurry and eat dinner, and we've got practice at night. So could you maybe speak to dads who feel sure?

[00:12:03] Tim Shoemaker: Oh, oh, for sure. Well, there's a couple of dynamics. You know, there's, there's the time issue and, and then, you know, if that was really what it was, then I'd want to talk to that dad and say, okay, but this is what it's really all about. It's about conveying truth, uh, to our kids in a world that will lie. Lie, lie to them all their lives and they've gotta discern truth from lies and we wanna help 'em do that.

[00:12:28] Tim Shoemaker: So, um, we wanna give them truth. And so this is like the most important, uh, thing that we can be doing. But the other thing is this, for many men, it's very hard to lead family devotions. And the more you understand that, , you know, especially wives. Why is it so hard? Oh, men are afraid. They're afraid the kids aren't gonna listen or they're not gonna pay attention.

[00:12:54] Tim Shoemaker: And then that's really hard on a guy. You know, it's, it, it's embarrassing. It's, um, it feels like we're not respected in our family and so we'd rather do anything else than get into that common arena where we think we're not gonna be in control. We think the kids will be bored. No guy. No dad. to think that his son or daughter thinks the dad is boring.

[00:13:18] Tim Shoemaker: So we'll avoid that and not do that. We'd rather clean toilets than lead family devotions, uh, because we don't think it can work Deep down, we don't think it'll work and we wanna be part of something that fails. But I would tell 'em, listen, try an object lesson. Try an activity. and you see how that works and it'll work really good and mom and dad can work together.

[00:13:44] Tim Shoemaker: Um, you know, sometimes for dad, it's so hard for them to even get that one negative truth across. And so then we do it like a team effort. Dad does the activity and mom maybe ties in the nugget of truth. Hmm. And what do the kids see? A team effort. And then it's not feeling to the man, like it's all on his shoulders.

[00:14:03] Tim Shoemaker: Uh, and when it's not all on his shoulders, he'll do. . And if he gets the idea that, uh, you know, you as mom, Hey honey, I need your help with something. I I I wanna help convey to these kids, um, the idea of secret sin in their life. You know, can you help me, uh, by doing this? You might even be the one that's looking up.

[00:14:26] Tim Shoemaker: Hey, I, I think this week. I really like the idea of blowing up an egg in the microwave, but I don't wanna do that. You know, honey, can you do that and then we'll tie that in together, uh, what that, uh, lesson is. So yeah, men have it. Men are under this feeling that it can't work, but it really does work well.

[00:14:45] Erin: Mm-hmm. . So, uh, on a practical standpoint, the wife support and the husband, by helping come alongside him while he's doing this, uh, is really wonderful. Maybe could you speak to a wife? And how she could support her husband. Um, just in general, because, you know, some of us, uh, I know that, listen, uh, some of our listeners, um, don't have husbands that are believers, you know, and mm-hmm.

[00:15:10] Erin: so this might fall to the wife to teach these object lessons completely. But how could, so I guess there's two parts there. One, maybe speak to the wife whose husband is a believer who would love to do family devotions, and then maybe the wife who does have a believing husband that just. Started this yet without, you know, nagging him

[00:15:30] Erin: Sure, sure. 

[00:15:30] Amanda: That's, that's not what we want. 

[00:15:31] Tim Shoemaker: Good question too. Yeah. Alright, so let's talk about the one that's not a believer. Mm-hmm. . Um, obviously he knows that your faith is extremely important to you and if he's not antagonistic to it, you know, we'll kind of take it from that standpoint. Mm-hmm. . Uh, but one of the things you can do, again, we've got activities here and we've got a, a truth that we wanna teach 'em.

[00:15:50] Tim Shoemaker: You know, a lot of these biblical truths that we want to teach are good character trait. Christian or not? It's good character, good morals, integrity, honesty, kindness, how we talk to one another. You know, even if somebody's not a person of faith, these are things that they're gonna value. And so it, it'd be easier to get his help that way.

[00:16:12] Tim Shoemaker: But no, you can't expect him to teach anything. Uh, but you would certainly say, Hey, um, I wanna do this this week. Can. Pick up the supplies for that. Can you actually, you know, practice that once so that you can, uh, run through that with a family? You give a guy, believe it or not, the job of driving that car and finding some places where the kids won't know where they are.

[00:16:36] Tim Shoemaker: Most men will rise to the occasion. They'll be like, . Oh yeah. They're not gonna know where we're at. You just leave this to me. I got it. Right. And, um, so you, you do it as a partnership and then you tie it in and then you keep it real brief. You look for a chance to encourage the man, uh, whenever you can. Uh, so let's say for example, um, we're doing the one with the, with the car.

[00:17:03] Tim Shoemaker: Okay? Now, why weren't you? when daddy was driving. You know, why, why weren't you? And so, you know, we're pulling him in and we're, and, and so how we trust God the same way. Um, let's say that the man is just reluctant to do family devotions. A lot of it's probably gonna come down to those fears. It, it's, he doesn't think it can work or it's all gonna be on his shoulders.

[00:17:24] Tim Shoemaker: And the more. . A wife might say, we really have to do this. The more he'll dig in his heels and resist it, because he knows it's that important to you. He really doesn't wanna fail and he thinks he will. Mm-hmm. because he's never seen devotions done in a way that didn't bore somebody to death. Mm-hmm. . Uh, so that's where that, that example of just letting.

[00:17:51] Tim Shoemaker: Do that activity and you kind of do it together. But if, if you are fortunate that your husband wants to tie it in, you're real careful not to criticize. And here's one thing I would say. We're only trying to tie in one nugget of truth. And so if dad, if Dad does, if Dad actually is gonna tie this in, this is fantastic.

[00:18:08] Tim Shoemaker: Resist the urge to add, add nothing. Okay? Because anything that the wife will, if he's, if this is a stretch for him, it reinforces the fact that he's not good enough. That he almost got it right, but he didn't get it all. And you had to finish it up. You had to help him out. You had to, and, and, and that's not, and then it's gonna be, why don't you just do it?

[00:18:36] Tim Shoemaker: Is what he's gonna be thinking. Hmm. So instead, but you're gonna be wanting to say something because you're excited, you know, this is going good. He's saying something. And so what I would do is just, just reinforce whatever dad said. Oh, kids did, did you hear what dad just said a minute ago? Oh my goodness.

[00:18:53] Tim Shoemaker: Daddy, would you say that again? That was. Good. And, and so you're, it gives you a chance to express yourself, but you're just reinforcing, uh, what he's already doing. And then here's another thing. Sometimes you have to buy some supplies. So it all depends on where you're coming from. Uh, you know, we'll do something with like a target practice.

[00:19:14] Tim Shoemaker: Now you could take a ball or a beanbag and drop it in a bucket. It still works. You know, we're talking about aiming, or you could do it with. Airsoft gun. Now, you know, supposing, if that's okay in your family that you would have an airsoft gun. You know, you could do it with a 10 or 12 or $15 Airsoft handgun.

[00:19:38] Tim Shoemaker: Mm-hmm. . Or it might be that when he goes out to get the supplies, he comes back with a $50. , you know? Mm-hmm. , airsoft rifle. And so he's gone out of budget and that's where if you wanna encourage him, that's where you have to, you don't comment on that. Mm-hmm. , you don't talk about the budget then. Um, you know, it's just you thank him and his love language and, and you let the man know later.

[00:20:06] Tim Shoemaker: You know what, when you were, when you were, when you were teaching the kids, when you were doing that with the kids? I can't tell you what I was feeling. I, I, I was so proud of you. I just, oh man. I just, I just thought, I love this man. And, and so, you know, you just keep reinforcing, uh, that and, and help him along because it's tough for a man to start.

[00:20:27] Tim Shoemaker: Uh, but once he gets going and he's got some success with this, it is going. Good. 

[00:20:34] Amanda: I don't know of very many men that would not want to make an egg explode in the microwave. 

[00:20:39] Tim Shoemaker: Well, yeah. There's the other thing's that , yes, you do the stuff that's, you do stuff that he would, he would love to do. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.

[00:20:46] Tim Shoemaker: So with that one, you take a raw egg, right? And you're gonna put in the microwave. And, uh, what I do is I generally put it in like a gallon size, zip. Just for containment. You don't seal it. Do not seal it. In fact, I cut a corner off just to make sure it doesn't accidentally seal because then you're making a bigger combustion chamber.

[00:21:04] Tim Shoemaker: You don't wanna do that . Uh, so, uh, so you put this egg in the microwave and you give each of the kids safety glasses. Now, anything you do with safety glasses realize the kids are going to be that much more into it, , uh, because they know you're doing something. It's probably a little dangerous . And so, uh, they're, they're into it.

[00:21:25] Tim Shoemaker: And so you set 'em maybe down, maybe five feet away from that microwave. And, uh, they've got safety glasses on. Each has a, a piece of paper and a pencil. And you say, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna turn on the microwave here for two minutes every eight or 10 seconds. I'm gonna say time. I want you to tell me if that egg is growing, is it getting bigger?

[00:21:44] Tim Shoemaker: Um, do you see a change there? And if they don't, just put NC for no change on the. . So, you know, you do that and it's no change. No change, no change, no change. And then you'll get a nice wolf, sometimes a little one, sometimes a really good one. Uh, all depends on, uh, that egg. And, uh, then it's you, you can open that microwave and, and pull out this bag and there's steam pouring out of it, and it's just shrapnel.

[00:22:10] Tim Shoemaker: You know, all inside this bag. And then you can ask them, okay, I see, uh, no change. No change, no change, no change on your paper. Was there really no change going on here? And this thing just randomly blew up? Mm-hmm. , uh, well, they would tell you, well, no, it, you know, that's how a microwave works. It cooks from the inside, right?

[00:22:28] Tim Shoemaker: Transition to your spiritual truth. You know, kids, this is just like life. This is just like that egg didn't belong in the microwave. This is a picture of what happens when we hide things in our life that don't belong there. Maybe it's unforgiveness, maybe it's pride, uh, maybe it's something else. And we're not telling mom or dad about it.

[00:22:45] Tim Shoemaker: In fact, you could look in the mirror and you see no change. Or maybe you sit down at the table with mom or dad and they don't seem to notice any change, and you begin to think that there is no change, that you can handle this, but sin hidden in your life instead of repenting, getting rid of it. When you leave it there, it's just like an egg in the microwave.

[00:23:07] Tim Shoemaker: You can know two things. It's gonna come. and when it does, it's gonna make a mess. And then we share scripture, of course, and, and, and, and there in just less than five minutes, you have taught them a really important nugget of truth. 

[00:23:24] Erin: Oh my goodness. I love that. Yeah, I love that too. , I'm just so excited hearing you talk about this because I, I, I feel like that takes a burden off the parent to feel like, to get into the word, to teach these truths, you have to be doing it for an hour or 30 minute times.

[00:23:41] Erin: Oh. Break. And what you're saying is so encouraging to me because, you know, the reality is a lot of us have multiple kids spanning multiple age ranges that we're trying to educate and we wanna teach biblical truths to, but to do that, sometimes it feels like you have to have, um, a specific Bible study just for this age or this, this particular season of life.

[00:24:03] Erin: And this sounds. just an amazing way to get the whole family together to do something. So can you tell us, Tim, about the book that this study comes from, these object lessons? Yeah. We would love to share that with our listeners. 

[00:24:16] Tim Shoemaker: Well, uh, this one's called The Very Best Hands-On Kind of Dangerous Family Devotions, , and it's, uh,

[00:24:23] Tim Shoemaker: It's, uh, it's a long title, right? And it's, uh, put out by, uh, baker Revelle and, uh, volume two comes out this spring. And then, uh, we're already working on volume three. But, um, yeah, that's, and, and it's got 52 activities that you can do, uh, with your kids to teach a nugget of truth. But I'm gonna jump back to something.

[00:24:43] Tim Shoemaker: I, I'd love to talk more about the book, but there's something you said, Aaron, that's so key that I wanna make sure, uh, that we get back to that. And that is, you talked about a wide variety of ages. Now when you're trying to teach that group, let's say you've got kids that are, you know, 14, 12, 8, 6, and four, um, Where do you focus your attention?

[00:25:07] Tim Shoemaker: You know, maybe as a mom we're trying to be careful. We're trying to make sure that our younger one isn't like totally left out and we wanna bring it down to their e their their level kiss of death. Mm-hmm. , that is the kiss of death for family devotions. No. You always keep it at your highest level.

[00:25:25] Tim Shoemaker: Mm-hmm. , your target is your 14 year old and your 12 year. Those are, and, and I I I'm gonna say this for shock value, you don't care about your four-year-old . You do. Yes, but not now. Yes, not now, Uhhuh. Because here's what happens. If you bring that lesson down to that four-year-old or anywhere near it, your older ones are gonna check out and you may not get 'em back for this devotional.

[00:25:49] Tim Shoemaker: You may not get 'em back for devotions at all because they think it's kid stuff because they grew up with bible picture story books and they're thinking sort of devotions are are kid things, but. . The fact of the matter is who's closer to the real dangers in life and who is, who do you have less time with?

[00:26:05] Tim Shoemaker: It's your older kids. Mm-hmm. , you've got to focus there. And so, um, not that you just talk only to them, but you make sure that they understand is for them. So let's say, um, what's your oldest, Aaron? What's your oldest? Uh, 17. Okay. Oh my goodness. Okay. And what's his or her name? Calis. . Calissa. Mm-hmm. . Okay. So maybe as you finish that devotion or dad finish the devotion, you might say, all right, Calissa.

[00:26:31] Tim Shoemaker: Cleaning up, we're done here. We'll, we're just gonna clean up and you can go do whatever you'd like to do. But I'm gonna have your younger brothers and sisters hang around here. I wanna make sure they understood what we were talking about. And so there's that, that subtle message. Mm-hmm. , it's for them. Uh, or you might say, uh, while I'm cleaning up here, Calissa, would you make sure your little brother understood what we were talking about there?

[00:26:52] Tim Shoemaker: And so she gets it. Now, if you've got an. , if you've got, you do this all the way through high school with their home, you, you keep doing these, right? Mm-hmm. , uh, if I'm speaking at a men's group, I'm gonna be using the object lessons. Um, Jesus did it really effectively. Mm-hmm. . Um, so, um, you keep, uh, you keep doing it all, all the way through.

[00:27:17] Amanda: I

[00:27:17] Amanda: love, it's awesome. Yeah. That's, 

[00:27:19] Erin: Yeah. Well, and Tim, what you're talking about too is teaching to the oldest. That's just a a, a really solid piece of advice for homeschooling as well, because a lot of times, you're right, we start to think, well, this little one needs all this attention. Um, and I'm gonna focus my attention on that child and what they need.

[00:27:36] Erin: But really, You know, you see it over and over and again. You teach something to the oldest, you don't think the youngest is even paying attention, and three months later they're asking you a question because they knew what you were talking about three months ago, and they wanna have an answered. To that question, and here they are.

[00:27:52] Erin: And I, I feel like that's the same thing that you're talking about with these devotions, is keeping it at the higher level and they're gonna soak up like a sponge. All of those things. I mean, kids are natural learners and mm-hmm. , if it's entertaining and, um, hands-on like that, I just, it's wonderful. So that's so amazing.

[00:28:10] Tim Shoemaker: Yeah. And if Aaron, if you, if you had it and, and it's not gonna be your situation there, I'm sure, but let's say one of your listeners has a 17 or 16 or 18 year old that they, they're pushing back on this and they don't like the idea of family oceans. Maybe they've been sta starting stop and and the idea for them to start again.

[00:28:30] Tim Shoemaker: They're like, no, I don't want this. I am so beyond this. Whatever it is, you still have to have family, Devo. Right. Uh, because it's a mandate from God. The word says that we need to do this, and so we have to teach our kids. And so what I would do is I would take that, that one aside and say, look, I know I've been stopping starting this, but I'm really getting it.

[00:28:50] Tim Shoemaker: I've got to do this. It's part of what I've gotta do as a dad. And I know that's hard for you. Um, and so you might see if they would go along with you on it, but if they don't, the next step is you make 'em your. And so you say, you know what, I, I know you feel some of this below you. So actually what I want to do is, is I want you to help me teach your younger brothers and sisters, and so during the week, we're gonna practice this object lesson.

[00:29:14] Tim Shoemaker: Or if there's supplies to pick up, we'll do it together. And, uh, and I'm gonna have you in charge of this part. You know, you have them actually help you do the object lesson. Now what happens is now they don't feel like they're being treat. like a kid, they're being treated like an adult. They like that.

[00:29:31] Tim Shoemaker: And are they still getting to listen? Absolutely. Mm-hmm. . And also you're teaching them how to do it when they have their own family. So you might have some, some boy, when he's a dad, then he's like, oh yeah. I used to actually, I used to help my dad do family devotions at home. Yeah, I can do this . So it, it really works nice for the future.

[00:29:51] Erin: Yeah, I love building that confidence in, in their own study of scripture. That's perfect. Um, alright, so Tim, do you have anything else to say on this topic before we move on? I really wanted to talk about your fiction series and, 

[00:30:05] Tim Shoemaker: okay. I'd, I'd, you know what, just one little thing and that is this. Sure. As you do family devotions, you know, something like this and, and, and you keep it quick, you know, not a lot of teaching.

[00:30:19] Tim Shoemaker: five to 10 minutes. Five is better than 10. It's shorter. You can keep it the better. Right? But as you do this, what I found is two things start to happen, and one is, uh, it becomes easier and easier to talk about spiritual things in everyday life, which is what we want. That's the Deuteronomy example. It just becomes more natural.

[00:30:37] Tim Shoemaker: But the more, the surprising thing to me was, uh, how it changed me, uh, because, uh, it would like be like the Holy Spirit would, you know? You, you get hit right. You know, between the eyes with, you know what, you ought to work a little bit on this too. And, uh, so I was changing as I was doing these devotions.

[00:30:57] Tim Shoemaker: God used that in my life. And then you don't tend to lose the kids' respect, and if you don't lose their respect, that's huge because it's really hard to rebel against somebody you respect mm-hmm. . And so then they keep listening to you, uh, even through those teen years. So, uh, it, it all works together in some ways that.

[00:31:17] Tim Shoemaker: You may not even realize. 

[00:31:19] Amanda: Okay, so there . I got that. Thank you. 

[00:31:22] Erin: That was good. I'm like taking N Notes fiercely in my head here. I'm just like, I should have grabbed paper before I sat down and 

[00:31:27] Amanda: I'm just like, oh swoon. I wanna hear more . Oh man. 

[00:31:31] Tim Shoemaker: Well I love this. Hey, if you wanna do it again, we'll do more. So that's, yeah.

[00:31:35] Erin: Well I really wanted to talk. Okay, so Amanda on Friday she was talking about having you on and I'm like, well I really wanna read the book cuz I love reading. So she said, well, Evan has this book, escape from the Everglades and. Tim, this is like almost a 500 page book. And I'm . I have like 30 pages left. I have been, it's been hard to put it down.

[00:31:55] Amanda: Ah, and I know four days. Four days. She's almost done with this book, . 

[00:32:00] Tim Shoemaker: Oh my goodness. That's good. 

[00:32:01] Erin: That's good. I love it. Well, okay, so as a homeschool mom, we, we talk, we're talking to these, uh, moms daily and I see on Facebook and social media all the time. , I need a good book series for my son because he hates reading.

[00:32:17] Erin: He's not engaged. And I have this criteria that I, I don't want it to be full of questionable things or things we're gonna have to have conversations about that are beyond what his, I don't want his maturity maybe, or whatever. Mm-hmm. . Um, so I, I hear this and now I'm like, okay, now I've gotta recommend Tim's series to every mom that I know has boys at home.

[00:32:42] Erin: I love it. Uh, I was so engaged. I had somewhere to be within 30 minutes of picking up the book, and so I'm like, I'll just flip through it. I was on page 34 before I knew it, and I'm like, what's gonna happen to Parker ? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, would you like to share a little bit about some of your fictional books, why you write in the way that you do?

[00:33:02] Erin: Because like you've said, uh, you don't want the fluff and I don't want the fluff for my kids either. We really wanna get some meaty. heart issues and character traits talked about through what they're reading for school or for leisure. 

[00:33:14] Tim Shoemaker: So, yeah. So, um, my, my heart is to reach the boys. They're the toughest audience.

[00:33:22] Tim Shoemaker: And if you do it right, you'll get the girls too. Mm-hmm. . But if somebody says, I'm writing for kids, um, such and such. In my mind as a writer, I, I'm thinking, okay, you're writing for girls. You can't say I'm writing for kids and get 'em both. You've got to write for boys and then you'll get them if you do it right.

[00:33:42] Tim Shoemaker: So there's like 20 things that I do, or 10 that I do, and 10 that I don't to make sure that I get the, uh, boys, everything from. . Yeah. You mentioned it's a long book, but there's a lot of chapters. Mm-hmm. , um, you know, the average chapter is uh, four and a half pages. So, um, that makes it really easy for board to read.

[00:34:01] Tim Shoemaker: There's more cliff hangers. There's more reason to hold you in. Now, not every. Chapter is four and a half pages, but some are a half page, some are two pages. Hmm. Some are maybe eight. But I generally don't go, uh, beyond that. So, um, so there's all kinds of things you do to write deliberately, but yeah, I want to inspire.

[00:34:23] Tim Shoemaker: our readers to be men and women of integrity and character. I want them to embrace our faith to see that it's relevant and to embrace truth. But I don't go in with an agenda. That's another thing. Um, I don't want any hokey Christian fiction here, and we've all read plenty of that stuff. Mm-hmm. . So the idea is, for me, I wanna give him a great.

[00:34:46] Tim Shoemaker: With really believable characters that they can resonate with. Regular kids that don't have a special ability, they don't have any magic that they can pull out, and our readers can't. No, these are just like the readers. So that can, uh, encourage our readers too. I don't talk down to 'em because kids are smart.

[00:35:07] Tim Shoemaker: You know, they just lack experience. That means they lack wisdom. But they can learn through the experience of the characters. And there's always something that's gonna rise to the surface and the stories or a number of things that the, um, the reader can learn. But I don't start out saying, well, I'm gonna have a story about trust or whatever.

[00:35:25] Tim Shoemaker: It's, you write this story and God just brings this stuff to the surface. So it's, it's really. . Really exciting. So yeah, there's, there's, uh, uh, there's a series, uh, the Code of Silence series, that's Code of Silence back before Dark Below the Surface. Uh, that's one series. Then we've got a standalone that's called Easy Target.

[00:35:47] Tim Shoemaker: Uh, and then there's the new series with Focus on the Family Escape from the Everglades. And then every Hidden Thing comes next and the Deep End comes out in a couple of months. Mm-hmm. , that'll be a five book series. So, . Yeah. I, I, I love that. But yeah, clean no language. You don't need any romance in there.

[00:36:08] Tim Shoemaker: Uh, it's lazy writing when they use those things, actually .

[00:36:15] Erin: Right. Um, so, well, and I like what I'm reading from the Escape from the Everglades book is, It, it, you say 12 to 14, but I really feel like my 17 year old would be really loving this book because it is full of so much action. But I also like how you, you have the characters.

[00:36:34] Erin: They're not their own hero. They're turning to God and when they're not, , you see that from the main character. Mm-hmm. . So it is a, it's a really great way to introduce God into, because that's what we do as believers, as a believer. I'm sitting there thinking in the back of my head, I'm, I'm saying those silent prayers and I, if I'm in a situation mm-hmm.

[00:36:52] Erin: and to see that in a, a. A middle level book, you know, a 12 to 14 year old. I think that that is so powerful because a lot of times, even locally in our small town, we've had issues with the library, even putting out literature for children in the children's section. That really is not children's literature.

[00:37:10] Erin: And so it's been become so hard to even go to the library to find a decent book that's not exposing our kids to things as believers that are just not scriptural. They're not healthy, they're very dark, or, um, Just really things that are gonna make our kids' minds kind of turn to mush almost, when you know mm-hmm.

[00:37:29] Erin: And so having series like these where it is very richly written, it's engaging. Even as a mom, I'm like, I wanna figure out what, where's Maria? You know, 

[00:37:40] Tim Shoemaker: Well, you know, one of my goals, uh, on that, Aaron, is, you know, as a, as a dad, I used to like to read to the kids growing up, right? And there were some of 'em that would just bore.

[00:37:52] Tim Shoemaker: Death and I could hardly stay awake reading to 'em at bedtime, right? Mm-hmm. , I, I, I don't know if you've had that problem, but I sure have. And, um, I want something that a parent can read to their kids, especially to a reluctant reader. that they'll be engaging and the parent will be into it and the parent will wanna read too.

[00:38:10] Tim Shoemaker: So yeah, they've kind of made that 12 to 14 window as far as maturity level or whatever, or in other words that mm-hmm. , we don't wanna have something in there that, uh, would be inappropriate, but yeah. Um, they should appeal to adults, uh, as well. And that's sort of the goal when we write it, because I'm not writing down to 'em mm-hmm.

[00:38:31] Tim Shoemaker: So that's, that's kind of the big thing. And we all remember. These times in our life when we were in those early teenage years and all the, all the crazy things that we went through or, uh, experienced, we can relate to that. And so yeah. Adults still still like them. 

[00:38:48] Erin: Mm-hmm. . Well, you're doing a great job, Tim.

[00:38:50] Erin: I'm, I'm super excited to finish out this series and have my kids read them too, because, you know, that's partly why I wanted to get this book too, is. I wanna know that what my kids are reading and I, I, I have three teenagers and a five year old, so I don't have all the time in the world to read a bunch of books that are not great quality and not also.

[00:39:12] Erin: Kind of encapsulating all the things that I'm wanting to teach my kids about good character, good moral standing, um, turning them towards God as they're reading, but also just an engaging, really great story. And you do that because like you said, there is a lot of Christian . Uh, literature out there that's just really hokey and it really just puts those kids that are already kind of maybe questioning their faith or whether they wanna follow God and then they see something that's dumbed down, or mm-hmm.

[00:39:43] Erin: doesn't hit the, the faith questions hard on, you know, like head on then. Your books are doing that. So I really, I do strongly recommend because I've read, um, this book that other parents seek out your work. 

[00:39:57] Tim Shoemaker: You know, it's something where, um, and not everybody's gonna be a Christian in there. Mm-hmm. , right?

[00:40:02] Tim Shoemaker: And so we wanna be true to that. And so if there's something who's not a Christian, one of the things do when they have an argument. or from their standpoint, I never wanna make them look dumb. Right? Because a lot of our readers are gonna be having some of those same questions and, and back before dark. I think the big question in our, in, in one of the non-Christian characters was characters was, you know, how can a good loving God allow bad things to happen to good people?

[00:40:24] Tim Shoemaker: And you know what, um, that's a big question we have to answer for our kids. We have to help them come to the answer on, so now he's gonna struggle with that. Now in the end, you know, we're not gonna say, oh, see how this worked? We'll just show it and, and to see that what they thought was happening was not how it really turned out after all, and how, uh, they begin to get that glimpse of God.

[00:40:49] Tim Shoemaker: So yeah, we're, we're taking, the readers are smart and, uh, and they're figuring that out as as they go as well. 

[00:40:55] Amanda: and those are all questions that we have to face day in and day out anyway, you know, as adults. Mm-hmm. . And so put putting that perspective, you know, where there's a child reading, a teenager reading this, then that kind of plants that seed.

[00:41:07] Amanda: Well what would you do in this situation? How would you answer this question? And I'm, I'm sure, I mean, I haven't read the books, but it sounds like you get to read these scenarios and begin to have an understanding as to how you would address that in real life. If someone were to ask you those question.

[00:41:24] Tim Shoemaker: Right, right. And see you can do it with a story. So, so for example, here's the thing, do we have time to do one more example? Mm-hmm. , I'm not sure we're doing time wise. Okay. We're good. So, um, alright. Now think about this, um, our, our adult world is kind of intoxicated with non-fiction. Okay? I mean, if you wanna be on a talk show, they're probably gonna be talking about a non-fiction book.

[00:41:49] Tim Shoemaker: And, and this is all, all wonderful and that's great. And I. I write non-fiction and write fiction, so I can speak about both, but they're different. When I'm writing non-fiction, I'm going to, uh, I'm going to try to persuade you, I'm going to appeal to your logic center, you know, of your brain, and I want to bring you truth, and I'm hoping that you see that and that you adopt it, and that some of that truth goes from your head to your heart, and now that becomes part of you.

[00:42:18] Tim Shoemaker: That's, that's how we work with nonfiction, but fiction is completely. You see, uh, Aaron, when you were reading that, if you were to page 30, you'd already began, you already began to care about the characters mm-hmm. , uh, what was going on. You're, you're taking that story and emotionally you're taking it in through your heart.

[00:42:39] Tim Shoemaker: So I don't have to worry about whatever truth comes out in this story. I don't have to worry about getting it from your head to your heart. It's already. That's huge. And, and just to give you one quick Bible example on that, think about David when he messed up with Bathsheba, right? And then he had Uriah.

[00:42:55] Tim Shoemaker: Mm-hmm. basically killed. Now guess what? King David was doing everything he normally did, he was still king, he was still doing his thing. And even though he knew the law, he was still functioning fine until God sent the prophet Nathan to him with a. And he told him the story about the man who had one sheep who he loved, and he slept with that sheep.

[00:43:20] Tim Shoemaker: And then the rich man took it and killed it for his guest. And David was livid, you know? And he says, you know, who is that man? You know, he wants 'em to pay, right? And Nathan says those famous words, you're the man. Mm-hmm. . And it ripped him apart. And. is when David wrote Psalm 51 that, that most famous confessional psalm ever, that moved him a story.

[00:43:46] Tim Shoemaker: And so when we talk about wanting to impact our kids great stories, not the hokey stuff that doesn't get to their heart. We want the real stuff. And that can be another form of devotional that we're teaching truth to our kids. It takes a little longer more words. Mm-hmm. , but it something they never. Okay, so there,

[00:44:10] Erin: Oh, I love what you're sharing. This is fantastic. Um, well, before we go ahead and wrap up, where can our listeners find more? Tim Shoemaker? Where are you at on social media and what's 

[00:44:23] Tim Shoemaker: Oh, I'm, I'm terrible with social media. I'm the, I'm the worst, I think . Um, I haven't gone to Facebook in years. Um, and, uh, let's see, but I am.

[00:44:35] Tim Shoemaker: I'm on Instagram and I'm gonna have to think of the thing. Um, sorry, I think it's 

[00:44:39] Amanda: Tim Maker one. 

[00:44:40] Tim Shoemaker: If I'm, thank you. That's good 

[00:44:42] Amanda: because I was, I was looking for 

[00:44:43] Tim Shoemaker: you the other day. Yes. Good, good, good. Yeah, that's good. And, um, and I'm changing the, I've got a website that's, uh, Uh, Tim Shoemaker smashed tomatoes.com, but I'm gonna change just to tim shoemaker.org because I've got that domain and I just need to do something with it so they can get ahold of me that way.

[00:45:01] Tim Shoemaker: And, and of course, the books at a Christian bookstore or Amazon. 

[00:45:05] Erin: Awesome. Very cool. We'll go ahead and put all that in our show notes so people can find you . And also, I know that you are speaking at a great homeschool convention Yeah. Coming up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm actually gonna be at the St. Louis one, so I will have to stop by.

[00:45:19] Erin: Come on. 

[00:45:20] Tim Shoemaker: Oh my goodness. Art, you have to stop by the booth. And I'll do a couple of workshops. I'll demonstrate, you know how we talked about a couple of those devotions? We'll probably demonstrate, um, probably 10. During that little workshop. We'll do one. Oh, awesome. Nice. And, uh, Yeah. Oh, definitely. Stop by.

[00:45:37] Tim Shoemaker: That'll be so fun. Yeah. 

[00:45:38] Erin: Well, thank you so much, Tim, for taking time to talk to Amanda and I, I know I've gained a lot of insight from you and I, I know our listeners will as well. Uh, so Amanda, are we wrapping up? Yeah, we're

[00:45:54] Amanda: but yeah. Do you wanna say we're, I mean, we have our website, so go homeschooling podcast.com for us. Mm-hmm. and Yeah. Um, our, this, well, I can just stop record.