Wandering Tree ®, LLC Podcast
Wandering Tree ®, LLC Podcast is the ultimate audio companion for curious and adventurous minds, offering a journey through thought-provoking discussions and unique perspectives on life, culture, and the journey of an adoptee. This show has been established with the simple goal of reaching other adoptees who may benefit from just hearing other adoptees share on the lived experience. Host, Adoptee Lisa Ann, will share the tangled roots of the life long journey as an adoptee, the search for biological connections, the good and bad of reunions and how saying "I am adopted" has connected to so many others. The candid discussions between Adoptee Lisa Ann and her guests will tackle the term "adoption" and how it is covers so many aspects of our society.
Wandering Tree ®, LLC Podcast
S3:E13 Ryan Anderson's Unabated Pursuit of Family;The Threefold Connection
Ryan Anderson, who imparts his moving journey of self-discovery and acceptance take us on an unforgettable journey of discovery and growth. Born and raised as an outsider in Scotland, Ryan opens up about his unique experience of grappling with various socio-cultural and economic factors that set him apart from the crowd. His narrative takes a surprising turn when he uncovers his adoption at the age of 18, a revelation which consequently reshapes his identity and propels him on a path of self-acceptance.
Join us on this enlightening odyssey as Ryan courageously embarks on a quest to find his biological family tucked away in the cultural mosaic of Morocco. He sheds light on the roller-coaster of emotions he experienced, from the initial shock, through the struggle, to his unabated determination. Fascinatingly, Ryan introduces us to his concept of having three families – his adoptive family, foster family, and DNA family - and the unique process of reconnecting with them. Tune in to witness an exploration of identity, resilience, and the power of acceptance, culminating in an inspiring message of living life to its fullest.
Find your people, cherish your people and love your people.
More ways to connect with Ryan:
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C-LNcmxdFk
Please see Ryan's full 20 page life story which goes into more details.
https://peshy37.wordpress.com/2021/02...
IG: https://www.instagram.com/peshy37/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/peshy
Welcome to Wandering Tree Podcast. I am your host, Lisa Am.
Speaker 2:The highest match in my third cousin. All these people have. Whenever I match with someone, I send them my story. They're all blown away and they're all. No one's got any kind of information from me. They're like, wow, what a powerful story. Nice to meet you, cousin.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to today's episode. Today's guest is Ryan Anderson. He's going to tell us a little bit about himself here in a minute, but I just want to express to the listeners this is going to be a fantastic episode. I can feel it already in my bones and it is truly a privilege and an honor to have this opportunity to speak with Ryan. Good morning, Ryan, for me, and good afternoon for you. How are you today?
Speaker 2:Good afternoon everyone. Thank you for having me. No pressure there. A fantastic episode incoming.
Speaker 1:Fantastic episode incoming absolutely 2pm in Scotland.
Speaker 2:here the sun's shining, which is unusual, but we enjoy it when it's the most of it.
Speaker 1:Well, welcome. Do you mind if you just kick us off with a little bit about who is Ryan Anderson?
Speaker 2:So Ryan Anderson is a happy-go-lucky guy, very vocal regarding mental health, regarding adoption. I feel like I've got a purpose to try and help people, so that's why I do as many podcasts as I can speak up, hopefully be relatable, have a nerve with people, tell my story a great inspiration to others to show, no matter what you've been through, to still do your best to have a good life and make the most of it.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's awesome. I'm going to have you then start at your story the reveal of adoption and what you knew at that point in time and how you felt right afterwards.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So growing up I always felt odd and I was always ashamed of my adopted family. Just because I'm not financially not the best, yeah, yeah, all I wanted to do was fit in and because when you're an outsider you don't fit in. And then finding out I was adopted at age 18, just when I was 18, then my world came crashing down. At that moment I was upset. It kind of just ticked all boxes that I was an outsider. When you're young, a teenager, majority of us just don't deal with our problems and we just, in my case, just go out and have fun. I was out partying. You've got more distractions than when you're older and that's the reason why I've only started to talk about I'll deal with my problems currently, when before it was just lots of distractions as a couple of mechanisms, mainly the party inside to alcohol and drugs.
Speaker 1:I'm going to have us kind of move backwards a little bit in your story to two statements that you made and if you could explain them a little bit more. One is that you did not feel like you fit in and you haven't divulged yet in our conversation why in the introduction you did state I mean Scotland, let's give a little bit more around. That I didn't fit in context for our listeners, because I think that it's important.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So regarding fitting in, there's many aspects. One would be financially not having enough money, being a poor family. When you compare to others and not thinking about that, you're probably more well off than other families. Another part was the appearance that could be. Obviously I'm Moroccan, so tan skin, adopted dad's tan, my adopted mum's white. So growing up in a white area, I wished I was white and now when I'm older, I'm actually quite happy that I'm tanned and normally lots of people like to be tanned going on sunbeds or going on holidays.
Speaker 2:The culture was another part. I was brought a Muslim but I kind of drifted away from that religion and when the area you don't grow up in isn't Muslim or the same culture, you kind of it's natural just to want to fit in when you're younger and add so many obstacles of not fitting in. Yeah, that was when you're young, you just crave to fit in. Yeah, the family was kind of scattered all over the place. So when you look at other, it's all just comparisons. When I looked at other families, the family was in the same city and some families are closer than others. So you just constantly comparing yourself and wanting to fit in. And yeah, it was embarrassing when my family stood out and then say, for instance, the accent my mother's English and I got a Scottish accent. So when you're young you'll make fun of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as I said, also my name as well. My name was a big concern for me. I was born, I was given the name Rashid Abufad Omarini in 1819 and changed my name to Ryan Anderson and I also had a nickname called Pesci. So I'm going to change my name. It's like a new life and you kind of have different identities which can be quite confusing when you get older. And on top of the skin color type, there's also some racism that can happen in bullying, which is quite hard to deal with when you're young. Yeah, it's just a part of growing up really and kind of accepting myself now or doing my best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is a lot of information for our listeners. I know that there are going to be people who can resonate with some of the things that you just said. So you put all of that together as you're growing up and at that point you don't even know that you're adopted, but then you learn your adoption status at the age of 18. And you and I have kind of talked a little bit about this. What did you do at that point? Did you go and share that out, or did you hold that in?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was in England at the time, so I had plans to go to university and I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I was good with maths, so I wanted to be an accountant or something. But then, when I heard that information, I then left the family home not the family home, my mother's home. I went back to Scotland and I was homeless and I just got off at the job and got a flat and started my own life and I was that ashamed of what the information I knew that I kept seeking it for 12 years. I did keep in touch with my mother. She cares for me. She's been fantastic, but she's the only person I'd have a conversation with about adoption with. But to everyone else the word wasn't mentioned at all and it was forgotten about.
Speaker 1:Do you mind if you expand a little bit on what you were really feeling in terms of shame? What was the driver of that shame for you?
Speaker 2:So I think adoptees finding out you are adopted at an age it's called an LDA, a late discovery adoptee, and it's known that it can cause. It's known to tell your child as soon as possible that they're adopted, but a lot of people understand why they don't. Later you kind of think you're helping or you're trying to lessen the blow or to deal with it when you're an adult, but that's not the case. The truth needs to be told as soon as possible. Yeah, so that's secret.
Speaker 2:So going up, being embarrassed, being trying to fit in, that was the biggest weapon to someone that they could use to bring me down. So I wasn't giving anyone that ammunition, I was keeping that close to my chest and no one knew. So keeping that secret was a big deal to me. Yeah, I was really kind of pissed with my mind towards the past current years. It was bringing me down. So that's the lesson learned to not try not to keep secrets. Try not to keep something, talk about it. And when I did do that, things started to get better and I started to feel accepted, which is nice.
Speaker 1:So, ryan, the lapse time between when you learned of your adoption status as an LDA to when you actually started thinking about and grounding yourself, I believe was 12 years. Is that about correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. It's all about timing as well, because in 2017, no, sorry, 2018, I think I told someone when I was drunk and the more that you think that they think that it'd be a relief the next morning. It wasn't. And then the same thing happened a year later, and blurting that out was in that's obviously the bottle getting full right to the top, and, yeah, that could tell that I'm for me. It was killing me, and I also tried to go to counseling as well, and I just walked out. So the timing is most important. So when I was ready to this date, I can now tell anyone in the street about my life story to my best friend and get others to open up. Best of you to say thanks. I really need to have that conversation, or when I like having conversations with people. People are drawn to me to open up and if it's encouraging people to open up, then I feel like I'm doing a good job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that. I think the catalyst too, if I remember correctly, for getting your next step and starting your search was locked down during the pandemic. Can you share a little bit about how you started your search and what that means to you, Because it's a very interesting story?
Speaker 2:Yes, it's challenging. So everyone thought I had a great life. My life was worked out in Ibiza and then the winter I'd go traveling and I enjoy traveling, enjoy going to new places, even in Scotland, anywhere in New Year, a new restaurant, anywhere, like doing new things. I'd always go on holidays and then when COVID started, you couldn't go anywhere. So I grounded. I did have an idea that I would give alcohol and drugs a break and that's what happened. It started off in a month, two months, three months, six months, then a year, and in that time I'd done loads of self-development stuff. Tried to see me do oil, support groups, yoga, meditation, all the things, cold water therapy all the things that are good for you. I was just experimenting and, yeah, couldn't travel anymore. So then I finally my biggest achievement created a video telling my life story, opening up, and that's led on to so many opportunities. Like yourself, to the podcast.
Speaker 2:I love meeting people and open the door to the adoptee community, but it was a very slow process. When lockdown happened in the UK, it was out in March and I finally opened up to the doctor in May and that was an hours conversation talking about my adoption and then I felt great. And then that led on to my first counseling session Remember the year before I walked out. So this year I was able to do it and that was felt great. And then that led to support groups not speaking and being very fragile, to then being friends with everyone. So, as you can see, over the two, three years when we've been involved in this adoptee world I call it you can see how much I've grown. But when before I was that person keeping this my life, I think that a close book. And now Um, out here talking to anyone and everyone.
Speaker 1:So uh, yeah, I do like that you're touching on some of the peaks and valleys of mental health associated with any type of discovery of a major life event such as adoption, and I think I heard in in your dialogue and I just want to confirm some of yourself. Coping mechanisms have been, you know, alcohol and drugs, and we know through studies and sciences and these types of conversations, that is a common thread in adoptees as well, and so I appreciate it and I just want to honor you for opening up about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so when I was on my self-development journey, I wanted to give myself the best possible chance to get better.
Speaker 2:So that's why I cut out alcohol and drugs and I'm I've always preached about having a balance in life and there was lots of down days, even being off alcohol and drugs, but they were necessary to deal with to to get through. And, um, I know personally, when you do delve in too much, then the down days are darker and darker. In my case, it's always important to try and tell everyone to have a balanced life, and I've got friends that, um, who are years clean, got friends who are months clean. I've got friends who want to get clean and are struggling, and I've got friends who are able to, who have found their balance and don't suffer from mental health. So it's important to realize that each person is different and, uh, yeah, I always preach to try and find your own balance. I've been trying to work on that myself. I'm setting a good example and, uh, receiving a lot of nice messages to say that they are, that people are going to do the same. I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1:I want us to take a couple of minutes and talk about what you've learned about you as an adoptee as it relates to your three families. You've referenced them as three families in our off-mic conversation and I think that that it is so important to kind of consider it in that way as well. I loved that perspective when we were talking Uh, can you share that a little bit more? Yep.
Speaker 2:So, um, the three families I have are my adopted family, my foster family and my my uh DNA family. So my adopted family is my mum, the one um, and everyone part of them associated with that people I've grew up with and my foster family. They're the family that looked after me. The family is six, Um, but then it's obviously spread out over the 30 years later and they've got children themselves. So they looked after me for three months. Well, my mum had my parents had to come to the UK and then go back, so I'm very, even though they were three months in my life, I'm so thankful for them and they remember me from 30 years later and I went to visit the. So there was two parents who have now passed away, and then there was four children, and one of the children they were very close to me. She wasn't able to have kids, so she then grew an attachment and when she, when I met up with her 30 years later back in January, she was, um, so, so pleased to see me and she phones me every day and I don't think I have it. So she phoned me just to see my face and tries to communicate, and she's got a big smile on my face and then I just keep replying to say I'll be to Morocco soon, I'll come see you soon, so she's so happy that I'm alive and kicking, really yeah.
Speaker 2:Then I got my DNA family and as much I want to find anyone in my family. A lot of people when they were searching, they go. I want to find the mum, the mum's number one. Some people want to find the mum or the dad, Me. I want to find the mum, dad and the uncle cousin Stamping into anyone, because the results on the DNA sites the highest match of a third cousin All these people have. Whenever I match with someone, I send them my story. They're all blown away and they're all. No one's got any information from me. They're like wow, what a powerful story. Nice to meet you, cousin. They can help as best as they can with my search and If they can't help me with my search, they're Accommodating. So when I go into Morocco I met some of them and they're treating me like family, which is very, a very nice feeling.
Speaker 1:I want to go back and connect a couple of dots for the listeners. When we started this conversation, you spoke of how you were a Transracial Person. That and that's how you were raised. You believed yourself to be English and Moroccan and when it came right down to it, you're Moroccan, correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, I got the. Yeah, I got my DNA results. I think I've got like 1% um Italian in me, which is nice, nice to know. But this it's all dependent on how much you believe on the, on the figures, etc. Yeah, but yeah, I, I was born in Morocco.
Speaker 2:I'm going back to being ashamed. I used to lie and say I was born in Scotland and now I'm actually proud of being Moroccan and Also my mother was English and so I've got the Scottish, don't like the English or some of them, so I was quite a bit. It's about a touchy subject. I felt touchy subject to be proud of England, yeah, and Moroccan. I was kind of hating Morocco and now I love the country that was growing up, just because I wanted to be Scottish and I wasn't. They three countries Morocco, scotland, in England I've all got an association with them. But but at the same time I don't fit in with them. So when I'm in Morocco, I feel like I'm Scottish, and when I'm in Scotland, I feel like I'm Moroccan. And when England when England, I feel like I'm Scottish. Um, so it's basically as an adoptee, trying to figure out where you're fitting, and in some days I'm fine with it, but can be a bit frustrating, for example, being in Morocco not understanding language.
Speaker 1:The challenges of identity are just phenomenal for most adoptees and I appreciate your, you know, kind of now, a bifurcated mentality of you know I want to be, I want to be Scottish when I'm in Morocco and I want to be, you know, moroccan and I want to be. You know that that translates across a whole lot of different areas. But I want to bring us back to your Moroccan story and your search. You mentioned that in doing some of the DNA testing, you are actually connecting to you know, further down the food chain if that's the way we want to look at it family members, you've got a big hill to climb in order to get to your Potential biological, you know, first level family. How are you feeling about that?
Speaker 2:Some days I'm Got my hands together and I'm ready to tackle the task and other days the the task looks too big, it looks um, really giving up the soul searching journey. It's time-consuming and it's a lot of energy. So my mindset can change my attitude some days, with my life's kind of on pause and and sometimes exciting searching for family. But If I ever get any information, or if I ever get the information that it's not positive, how will I react? I've always dealt with that. I'm going to cross that bridge when I come to it. But yeah, there's been lots of obstacles on the way, trying to nearly get infaudited by people and lots of false hope, messages to say I found your mum, and then there's not. And everyone's hopeful and we're all told to say we believe God will find you'll be reunited. Insha'allah. That means God's willing and it's very nice receiving all this positive hope. But it's down to me to do the work.
Speaker 2:And the second time I was in Morocco it felt like I was in a film. I was going around with my I've got an Arabic version of my story showing everyone in the street, in the hotels and the taxis, trains, and I walked along the beach myself. I spoke into the police. They're all. You see all their eye and facial expressions when they hear my story and they're excited and they've never heard of anything like this, just having the guts to go up to all these TV stations. Hello, will you take my story and can be quite exhausting and it's an adrenaline when nothing comes of it or it's like picking yourself back up and starting again.
Speaker 2:But I've only been to Morocco twice searching. Each occasion was five days, so it's not a lot of time really. So in my next attempt I'll plan to go to Morocco. I'll plan to go for longer and see what I can do. But yeah, this kind of halted me regarding a career and then and then that can then make you feel lost in life, but then those days where I enjoyed doing it, I go. This is my purpose. So I kind of stuck between what direction to go. Something's happened just recently in Morocco, yesterday, which has got me thinking. There was an earthquake condolences to anyone affected by that and it did make me think. Imagine one of my family was part of, were affected by one of my friends who's helped me so much. He lives in Marrakesh. His house has been destroyed and that does make you think about life. Try and live life to the full and appreciate what we got.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, when searching based off of my own experience, that there are so many things that you believe you prepare yourself for and then so many things that there's no way you could have even considered it. I don't know if I, as an adoptee, would have the strength that you have, Ryan, to literally go to another country and randomly ask people, share your story and ask people if there's anything they might know or could help to disseminate your story, or you know just the strength that takes to do that and I wonder if you feel your strength yourself.
Speaker 2:Well, I start to doubt myself when I get messages, unsupported messages or comments or feedback to say I don't agree with your searching. Do something with your life, don't go to Morocco. These people have said the phrases have meant well, but it's also upset me and it's also kind of made me think. But then on the flip side, I have had lots of positive messages to say it's an inspiration, it's go for it. Yes, other adoptees saying Ryan, you went to a country you don't speak the language on your own and you're searching for family. I've not managed to do that and these people are in their 50s and 60s.
Speaker 2:Obviously I'm in my 30s searching, but yeah, so I'm quite a thrill seeker. So this is kind of like an adrenaline that there is thoughts crossing in my mind go am I doing the right thing? And yeah, I start just with a trust in the process because it's kind of like self development. I feel like if I don't search, I will regret it when I'm older. I need to search when it is important to search when you're ready, because I always think why did I not want to search when I was 18? And that was because there was lots of distractions at that age and I wasn't mature enough. So now you should get older, it's natural.
Speaker 2:Less distractions Only because I've not settled? Yes, if it's the one thing that's on my mind every day I wake up, then that's my answer. I kind of want to trust the process and believe, with a lot of attraction, that something will come of this, and something has come of it. Every time I go to Morocco I've met lots of people and they're like you're my cousin, you're my friend. So if I don't find anyone, I've still got them and that's the person. I am out there meeting people.
Speaker 1:Well, I think we're getting kind of to the wrap up stage and there are a couple of things I want to tackle with that. I have never done this before, ryan, but I have to share this. I ran across this poem. It's called the Oak and it is by Lord Alfred Tennyson, which for most of us we can't even think about who that is, and I know this to be very old. But it says live thy life young and old, like young oak, bright in spring, living gold, summer, rich then, and then autumn changed, sober, huge gold again, all his leaves falling at length. Look, he stands, trunk and bow, naked strength.
Speaker 1:I ran across this this week in preparation for us talking, and you were one of the top five people I thought of when I read this, and so, as we're closing, I just want to see if you resonate with a couple of things. One you are, in my eyes, an oak, and I appreciate again you coming and telling us your story and being very raw about the ups and downs and the peaks and the valleys, and I think when I was listening to you today, the things that I took from the discussion are, in summary, be aware of your mentalness, because it's a long road and there are a lot of ways you can work through and help and do self-awareness. I think that was one of your main points. I also picked up on adoption, community connection and that is my advocacy Just making connection with other adoptees and being able to be in community.
Speaker 1:And even though we are oceans apart, we still have a common bond and we're also, you and I, ages apart and I still understand what you're talking about and you understand what I'm talking about. So there's not a huge disparate boundary in the community, it's a supportive community. And then the one that is a little hidden and I really want to bring it out is you didn't talk about rejection in the search, the potential of rejection, your positivity of I just want to search until I find what I find is encouraging, and I want to thank you for that, because I sometimes am concerned. We spend as adoptees a lot of time worrying. We sit in the worry space and stress ourselves out over the potential of secondary rejection, and you have not done that, so I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm all about. If I find any family, I'm rejected. It's not, it's a rejection for now, but I'll come back in six months, I'll come back in three months. It's just like if you're going for a job in a new year and they reject you, you come back, come back tomorrow, come back. It's kind of just putting your own spin on it and a positive mindset. Yeah, I kind of.
Speaker 2:I agree in all the points you said regarding the adoptee point, and whenever someone tells me they're adopted, it feels like I have an instant connection with them. Obviously, they got their back. When I go to all these groups, lots of people say these groups are where I feel they understood, because some adoptees can't have their conversations with the partners, with the parents, with their families, because they're the other half, say something triggering, but when they come to the groups, everyone's understanding and when there's a bunch of us together, loads of powerful conversations are happening and people come away feeling positive. So if that helps, then we should encourage lots of adoption podcasts, films, books, articles there's a whole range of stuff, even face to face meetups, online support groups. I make it my job to make everyone aware of what's out there and message me and I'll tell you all my knowledge. It's like I'm a networker and because when I joined the community I wasn't aware of any of this stuff. And now things are getting better, but it's taking time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that message and that mission. Well, thank you so much for being on today's show. I'm going to end with one more thing. If there was one thing you had wished, I had asked you what would it have been and what would be your answer.
Speaker 2:I think what I have a question. My question would be what was one of your goals in life, or whether you see yourself in a year or two?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a few there. I love that. I love the think ahead component of that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:The answer would be I want to see myself happy, healthy, more educated, helping others and helping myself. I always love to help others but it's important to work on yourself as well. So I'm doing my best to try and be the best person I can, best person in me. It's hard but I always want to try and do everything with a smile on my face, kind of joking around person always up for a laugh. So I'm trying to do everything and spread positive energy.
Speaker 1:Well, that's great perspective there. Ryan, and again I want to thank you for being on today's episode. It has been an honor and you are more than welcome here anytime when you want to share some of your finding stories. We will be for the listeners. Putting some stuff in the show notes so that they know how to connect with you. You have a YouTube video. I have watched it. I love the fact that you're putting yourself out there. So thank you again for giving me this opportunity to help spread your story and share your truth and your lived experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Thank you very much for having me. Yeah, thank you for having me. Yeah, take care everyone. Thank you for listening to today's episode.
Speaker 1:Make sure to rate, review and share. Want to join the conversation? Contact us at wanderingtreeapcom.