Should Vet Techs Be Called Vet Nurses?

Welcome to another episode of The Veterinary Roundtable! In this episode, the ladies give each other affirmations, discuss a super rare case involving mold, debate over whether veterinary technicians should be called veterinary nurses, and more!

Do you have a question for The Veterinary Roundtable? Ask us on any social media platform or email harrison@kingmediamarketing.com!

Episodes of The Veterinary Roundtable are on all podcast services along with video form on YouTube!

Social Links: https://linktr.ee/allstarvetclinic

TIMESTAMPS
Intro 00:00
Affirmations 04:09
Dr. Duckwall's Case 09:29
Dr. Schmok's Case 12:18
Devyn's Case 15:46
Listener Question (@ethanwhiteley-roehl1621)
Outro 29:24

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

0:00

[MUSIC] Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of The Veterinary Roundtable, the podcast where we answer your veterinary related questions while having some fun along the way. If you enjoy today's episode, be sure to leave us a review on your podcast provider of choice. And if you have any feedback to offer to improve the veterinary roundtable, let us know. So I don't know for those watching, it's a little janky today. We are moving studios. We're relocating! It's going to be great, it's positive. However, there are also other things moving within the clinic and we have a small gym. Have a small gym. It's good for our mental and physical health here for the two people that use it. But it's in the way. And we're also holding these microphones, which is a workout in other cells. Yeah, it's really happy. Really getting our workout into the head health. After this podcast, we're going to use the weightlifting. So Harrison's going to have to edit a lot if our voice is going in and out because our arms get dark. Or they start to shake. Oh, they're holding the both hands. I gotta save my string. I guess they should just do one then. Okay, well, this is going to be interesting. Okay, let's hammer homes. We have no hammer. We could do this. Yeah, this is like a hammer. Harrison would like it if we started banging the mics on. Everything. Okay, give us reviews, people. We only have two. We got two. Okay, that's what I thought. Hey, that's better than nut, but that's the last episode we had none. We need to update. Oh, for all those who didn't hear that, which is everyone. Someone left a review that said they loved our cocktail episode, which was around Christmas time. Yes. So go and watch that episode. Maybe we'll make more drinkier drinks. Did you see it? No, but I knew I heard about it. Yeah, that was really fun. It was really fun. We need to do it again. We can't just do it for fun. It was great. Yeah, I mean, just do a different thing today. I also saw a trend that was like party, but bring your own platter of whatever. So you could pick a color and you brought a color or something. Or people brought like donuts and then Taco Bell and like just random stuff. So cool party things. That's the idea. Ideas. Ideas. Okay, so we have a special guest. Her name is Dr. Lauren Schmok. Schmoky for sure. She's here today in place of Emily King. And so, yeah, our biggest thing is we're trying to get to 100. 100. Yes, 100 reviews on Apple Podcasts. And we're going to make Devon do something. Would you like to hear our ideas? If we get to 100. Yeah, okay. We get to 100. Yes, when we get to 100. We have a couple ideas. One of the ideas that was stirring up was in milk mile. Okay, so you drink milk? I don't know, but it's one that we keep mentioning. So I'm going to say it again. That's just you drink milk and then you run and pretty much like you are prone to vomit. And then the other one is, King came up with this one last time and I really like it. We just smear food all over her. Oh, and then dogs come and just lick it all off. Yeah, we layer on the ground and all the dogs just come and have a party. Have a buffet on Devon. I think that's something I guess someone suggested I try. All of the canned food. Oh, yeah, oh yeah. That was a good one. I like that one too. Yeah. I mean, we're averaging two reviews in the last like six weeks. So it's going to be a while. So I think you're 20, 25. I think you're sitting pretty. I think I'll be all right. Yes. Okay, everyone else want to, or everyone want to introduce themselves? Sure. Are you doing? I'm Devon and I'm doing swell. Oh, nice. swell. Wow. Okay. Do you want to reintroduce yourself? Sure. And say something about yourself. Yeah. I am Lauren Schmoke. I've been at all start for two and a half years. And I can only on the podcast a few times. So it's always fun. I feel like this is like Dr. King's not here. So it's, I don't know if it's no rules. We can say what? Yeah. Boss like you. I can. Yeah. We're on supervised. Mom's out here. All right. I'm Courtney. We should also say how long we've been at the clinic. That's a good idea. Okay. I've been here for seven years, almost eight this April. And I'm doing fantastic today. Wow. Okay. That's because you got new hair. I got my heart on it. If you're watching it, I got my, I'll, they're over. Do I'm on nail? Oh, why? Oh, look, I feel good. I'm a new person. Yeah. And I will be here two years in May. Nice. That's crazy. I am Dr. Ashland Duckwell. And I started in, oh my gosh, she'll be five years this year. Oh my gosh. I have a decade. The whole hand. High five. Okay. Oh, I'm doing great. Great. Doing great. Great. Yeah. Good. I just ate pasta though for lunch. So ask me in two hours. It's gonna be rough. Yeah. Food coma. I had pasta too. Mmm. Would you have a kind? It is like Thai rice noodles. Oh. I had just alfredo to get alfredo. We always eat chicken alfredo. You don't like chicken alfredo. It's crazy. Okay. This is a new section. It looks like. So, so let's see how this goes. Is that information? Yeah. This is new. Yeah, we have not done this. Give each other a few affirmations. This is new. That's true. You're welcome. I did do it unintentionally a couple episodes ago. She's like, let's do affirmation. Yeah. And guess what? We were all really happy. I love it. Women uplifting other women. Yes. That's what I'm saying. Okay. Who wants to go first? I'm giving one of you an affirmation. I think you give everyone an affirmation. Oh, I say we give our self an affirmation. We give everyone an affirmation. Okay. Yeah. Love it. You give the second the thing. No, I'm not going to. I know. It's a lot of pressure on the spot. Okay, I'll go first because I have a surprise. Oh, my. It'll take the place of the bag. The surprise bag that we forgot this year. This year? What? Or this podcast? I'm sorry. Today is called "Ode to My Colleges." No. Oh, poem. Kind of. Did you write it? Yes. Okay. You had time. Oh, no. I just thought of it when I woke up this morning. It just... Anyway. It's just making about us. It makes us up to her. Oh, Devon. Oh, Devon. You're our little pop tart. You are so good at your job. You give it so much care and heart. Okay. Dr. Suisse, tart and heart. Oh, yes. Hold on. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Oh, Courtney? Oh, Courtney. You make your job. So you make your job look so easy. You are the definition of hard working. And I'm not just being cheesy.[laughs] Oh, schmoky. Oh, schmoky. You are so smart and sweet. I get to work with you daily. And that's really, really neat. Oh, how... Isn't amazing. There's your affirmation. That's really good. Think, so just started writing me when I woke up. But I took... I ran with it. I didn't get it. Oh, I know. Yeah. You're so good. The sauce is nice. I think you guys... Oh, to My Colleges by Ashlyn Duckwall. No, I didn't know I was included. I think you gave yourself an affirmation. You're poet now? Yeah, I'm... Oh, Duckie. I'm a Duckie. How did we get so lucky?[laughs] Yeah! That's perfect. Oh, Duckie. That's like other. Okay. So what else is up? All right, I'm gonna follow that. Right? And then you both are always just great. I guess a team... This kind of goes into our question that we have coming up later. But for those listening, you didn't know this. This is all a team surrounding me. And they're just always awesome at being efficient and getting stuff done. And you're always like,"It's Ab Zoo."[laughs] And their clients love them. And Courtney is the technician. Obviously, Dev and Cifucent and Duckwall is a doctor. And they just work really well together. But this kind of comes back into play at the end where just having that team consistently is so helpful. Because you guys know your clients well. And then you can kind of predict what's gonna happen, what the recommendation is gonna be. And it just makes it so much of a better experience for owners when they see same people all your time. That's me. You guys are rocking it. She's okay. Wow. It could give yourself that feeling. So sweet. Oh boy. I am kind. I am kind.[laughs] Nice. That's me here. I was really good. I was just telling my husband. I feel like I'm at the point after being here for two and a half years. Like I'm seeing clients back to back or over again, to where we're forming relationships. And it's nice. You just form connections. And I'm like feeling that a lot over the past couple of months where they're just so appreciative and they know you and it makes it a lot better for everyone involved. So I'm feeling good. Nice. Yeah. Good for you. Hey. Man is not as long.[laughs] So, um, Shroki, I think you're great at staying calm and you just always seem like you're so collected. Yeah. On the end. Yes. I don't think I've ever seen you like displace stress. Oh, thank you. It never seems frazzled. I like that. Yeah. Courtney, I think Dufflaw said it beautifully. I was gonna say you're super hardworking. Thank you, super hardworking.[laughs] Um, Dufflaw. So, girl, now.[laughs] But I think you really need to know and you're always like looking out for us checking in and seeing how we're doing. And it means more than you know.[laughs] I think. Wow. So, we're just giving you some compliments, okay? Yeah.[laughs] My affirmation of myself is great. Oh, sorry. I was just gonna say that I've been growing up my natural muscles.[laughs] And I'm really proud of them. And they're like the longest and strongest. And I was gonna say they're strong. Yeah. Are you putting stuff on it to keep them strong? Like strengthening, Knot. Nice. Good job. I'm proud. Yeah. I'm proud of them. Did you shape them too? I did. Dang, girl. We're gonna open up on Nassalan.[laughs] Courtney, that's it. So funny. It always makes sense that we're talking about our nails. Alright.[laughs] My goodness.[laughs] Okay, go do your up. Um, okay. No, my hands are watering. Um, Dufflaw, I think you're an amazing mom. It's cool seeing you be a mom. Do. It's just like,[laughs] You're just as cool seeing you be a mom because I knew you before you were a mom. Yeah. And then seeing you be a mom is really cool. So I think you're a fantastic mom. Helen. Um, yeah.[laughs] Colin.[laughs] Um, Devin, I think you're a fantastic cat mom.[laughs] Thank you. That means a lot. You just like, I don't know, it's cool. Like you, I mean, you just love your cat. And it's cool to see the relationship. Like, because when people think about cats, I feel like they don't think about like them being as-- Like he's much I'll eat. No.[laughs] Well, kind of. I birthed him. Um, um, no, it's like, people think of like dogs as more of like, the companionship, because cats are usually more, um, but like he's like, you're like, you're a little dog. He's like, a dog cat. I think my buddy. Yeah. Thank you. Um, I think I'm going to play off Devin's because you're very calm and collected. And I feel, I mean, not that none of us are.[laughs] But it's like the little like, calm little bubble floating around like,[laughs] like he was looking to get everyone to feel better.[laughs] Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, you never see the stress. Oh, dirt, yeah. Don't forget to some. The past couple of weeks, I think I've been a really good wife. Oh! Been very supportive. Nice. I've been my husband's rock. Yes, good. Yeah, he's had some family stuff, so. Nice. I've been a showtup and appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, he does. Oh, my god. Look at us. That was a good sign. Oh, good job, Harrison. He makes our itinerary.[laughs] Okay, case collections. So, to first time, we talk about a case. That's something that's cool. They're interesting. So. Wow. I'll go first just because it's not mine. It's my coworker, Dr. Dudley's. But it was too cool not to share. And she never is on here because she's busy, so. Okay, she just had a new patient yesterday. And it looked like it was like a lab, but it was newly adopted. And they just said that the dog was bothered by the ear and it would cry or yell for something like that when they touched it. So, basically thinking ear infection, our standard protocol is the assistant or tech whoever goes in there will get the swabs. And then look at them under the microscope. Report to us. And then we evaluate with an exam. So, this dog, I believe I saw it was four years old. So, what was really weird is that Whitney who performed the ear cytology for Dr. Dudley was like, there's some weird cells on here. I don't know what these are. So, then she called her over and the weird thing was is that it was actually fungus growth on the cell, which is super abnormal. So, to put it in other terms, basically it was like mold. We're looking at mold under the microscope. And it had all characteristics of fungus that you just, you don't see fungus in the ear. It's very, very, very rare. And so, Dr. Dudley saw that and it was like repeated. She did another sample and everything. So, she actually had to call a dermatologist and ask because we never see it. I don't think she's ever seen, I don't know if anyone's ever seen it. And so, they submitted it for a fungal culture to identify the species and everything. But you have to get the animal started on oral antifungals, like right away. And she said like the weird thing was the ear was not that red. It wasn't swollen. The material in there was like black, which it usually is not. Like the dog wasn't super, super painful, just uncomfortable. So, it's just all super weird. That's crazy. How this happened. So, foreign body is on her list as to why, like something stuck in there, did it migrate? Did it, I don't know. It's just the one. Just the one. Yeah, just one ear. Oh, it's just one ear? Yep. Oh, yeah. And she couldn't see past like down to the ear drum and so... Because it was just so gunky? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, so weird. And we looked at it, she saved the slide so we could all learn from it. I was gonna ask if we had the slide. I'd like to look at it. It's crazy. So, the spores are like little balls on their probes. No, they said the dermatologist didn't say,"Well, because you don't really have any good options, she did." I should say she did do the trizz keto ear flush because that is ketoconins all in it. Excuse me, but then she'll do oral, I think she did flu-causal, I'm not sure. Yeah. And just like, um, yep. I'm glad you found it. Yeah, so that's understandable. Yeah, it's crazy. Wow. Yeah. So that's why I guess the point of that, and she had mentioned it too, is this is why we do ear cytologies, is because you literally can't know what's in the ear and what's infecting it, unless you look under the microscope. And it would have been completely missed because fungus and mold is not on our radar as. No, yeah, that's a closet. Yeah, that's a closet. And we would think of it in a ear. Yeah. And if the owner's declined the cytology, you're like,"Okay, here's some ear met." And that's when the word of "gotten worse" and it could have caused more issues. And got into the middle ear, which then, yeah, so could have been a whole other... Ooh, yeah. So, let's see. Well, let you know how it responds. Just interesting. Interesting. Okay, do you want to go or do you open it? Go. I can do a mind-roll with my mind-roll. Okay, okay. So, I had a seven-year-old female spade dog that came in for, well, I'll just say it up front. This is my dog. I can't even get around it. So, this is my dog. And you guys all know the crazy owners that freak out and want to do everything in panic and I am that owner. So, if we all have fun, yes. It's so funny because... No, I am. I actually had my whole dog when he just didn't eat a meal with me all. Yes, I can attest. I did the X-rays. Some bats here are like,"Oh, let me find Dr. King." But a lot of us are like... All of our medical knowledge goes out the window when it comes to our own animals. We just know the worst case scenario. Yes. And it makes it tough. But anyway, so she was looking at her paw and I'm like, she's never had allergies. It's weird. My other dog was like in her paw. My foot is going on. So I look between her toes and she had an infection, but she had like a marble size raised pink mass on her toe. And I immediately thought, this is, you know, tumor, muscle tumor. This is her whole toes can not come off. So I brought her in. We did a fine needle aspirate. I just take a little needle and poke it and send it out to the lab and it just came back as inflammation. So it wasn't super helpful. Tough spot to really biopsy or do much. But I treated it with antibiotics for about two weeks. And I'm working on my patients with treating her because I want to see your results right away. And nothing was happening with it. So I ended up anesthetizing her and doing what we call an"exitional biopsy." To biopsy, it tried to get all of it. I knew if it was cancer, I wasn't going to get margins just with the location that it was in. Sinted out. It came back as ringworm. And I was just like, what in the world? I was not expecting that. But it is a blessing. So it wasn't cancerous. A lot of our cancers on the toes are tough because you do have to take the whole toe really. And her case that was a weight bearing toe, so dogs have two digits on each paw that support most of their weight. And that was one of hers and I didn't want that for her or I. But it was ringworm and ringworm can look like anything. Yeah, no kidding. It was crazy because I saw it and she was really painful too. Yes. When we touched it. When I tried to poke it. Yeah, ringworm can be flat. It doesn't always have to be in a circle. It can be raised bumps. And what we call this typically is a carry on. And the good thing about that is it's less infectious to other animals or people. So luckily, no one in my house got it. But it's kind of a dome around the infection, that forms. And they can take months and months to go away. But I just took it off. So it's gone. And I did that process. Yeah, so it's crazy. I've never seen ringworm like that and then Bailey had it too. Yeah. Amber's another girl that works here. Oh, Bailey had this. It presented the same exact way. And I've never seen ringworm look. I didn't know it could look like that. Yeah, I had no idea. Interesting. I didn't see it. It looks like a mask. Yeah, it commonly will pop up around the nose when it looks like that. That I hadn't seen on a foot before. But yep, veterinarian dogs and that text dogs. You know, anyone who works here. They get all the fun. They get all the fun. Interesting. It's inevitable. I know. I know a doctor, not this clinic, but she amputated a toe because the, but the carry on the growth was so nasty and characteristic of something malignant. So they amputated because that was honestly the better scenario and it did come back ringworm. That's wild to me that I can look that way. Yeah. But it's always do. I mean, they do find if you have to amputate, it's just. Like you said, you don't want it for them. So yeah, so my husband put a ban on me for surgery for my dog for at least another year. But we'll get that done. All done. Oh, wow. Oh, I had a tight note. Sorry. Oh, my goodness. Okay. So this conveniently is a doctor's smoke patient. Yeah, is was. Let's get started. So last. All right. Let's get started. Last summer, last June, we had a new client, new patient. It was a one year old shepherd, shepherd, golden retriever mix. He presented for lethargy and non-weight bearing of his left hind limb. The owner had let us know that the patient had been hit by a golf car a week prior and that his left hind paw had been run over creating a laceration on like the meal aspect of that paw. They had a family member who worked in medicine and recommended suturing it. So the owner using red needle sutured it or stitched up, I guess, and applied me a sporn and a bandage. And then just left the bandage on because they didn't know any better. It's not changing it every day. But then at the clinic here, the paw was super swollen that you could see down to the tendon. And who was obviously extremely painful. So we initially planned on like the brideman, banjing, antibiotics, pain meds, etc. like this long process, which would be performed under sedation. And then the owner expressed some financial concern. So we kind of had to discuss options. We discussed care credit, which is just like a credit card and relinquishing the patient to all star. So they decided to surrender him to us and then we took over his care, proceeded with X-rays to rule out any fractures and found dislocation of his left tip and a possible acetate ruler fracture, the hypernouncy, which is just like the pulleys hip. Yeah. Okay, the joint. Okay. So we tried putting a sit back in place, but it wouldn't stay since it'd been on a socket for like a week. And then at that point, we were considering an FHO versus amputation of the limb and just decided on amputation. So we did some blood work, sent it out, including a acupuncts, which is a tick and heartworm panel because the patient had been covered in ticks upon arrival. So we sent that out. Blood work came back relatively unremarkable and his acupuncts was negative, which is good. We did his amputation and then the technician that had actually been working closest with him during his recovery and whatnot ended up taking him in. So he is now her dog. He's doing fantastic. They did 12 weeks of therapy and she says that he can, I mean, he's as mobile as her other dog with poor legs. He's doing fantastic. And then we just reached that 12 work and his acupuncts six months later because it can take four to six weeks or tick four diseases to pop up after exposure and six months for heartworm and it came back negative. So it feels go buddy. Yeah, that was perfect. That's a great stuff. I really, I just want to get an hour on this. He is literally also one of the happiest dogs you'll ever meet in your life. And despite going through all that, like he is so happy. He probably stayed here for like two weeks. We would have a weekend and hang out with him. Everybody grew very attached to him. So it's awesome. He got to stay in the All Star family. Yeah. And I think it's important to mention like relinquence relinquence relinquence relinquence. Relinquency relinquency. Yeah, it's that doing that doing that. I'm not even going to try is can be very difficult for the owners. And so they actually were showing love to the dogs so that he could still get the care for his. Yeah, the alternative. It just shows how much they love it instead of taking him home, letting him be in pain. They wanted him to get the care that we could provide. And kind of. Yeah. Yeah. And he turns out. He was also completely shaved when he came in. Yeah. He had a haircut. Oh, yeah. And now that he has all this hair back like he, I mean, he looks like a shepherd. Oh, really? But he was like, he was completely shaved when he came in. They gave him a haircut. Yeah, I was on maternity leave. But I saw pictures and I feel like I, yeah, I've heard about it so much. So he has a full coat now and he's a handsome dude. He's awesome. I want to see up to you. Yeah. He comes to visit. Uh huh. Every time he comes on a Tuesday, I'm going to get to see him. He's so cute. Yeah. And it was, yeah, I said it was the hind limb. So he's able to support himself a little bit better with having both front limbs. Good. Yeah. Yeah. He gets around so well. I think like the week of his surgery, he was like up and running in the play yard. Yeah. Like he didn't even, he acted like he never even had that leg ever. He was, he was awesome. Dogs are resilient. He's probably nice. Pain's gone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think if the hip wasn't out, you would have been able to save the leg? Or I guess there's the fracture too. That was our goal before we took X-rays to just try our best with antibiotics and the antichanges and things, the brightening. But once we took the X-rays, it really tell bad it was out. Yeah. We tried to, Dr. Jensen, I tried to get the hip back in under anesthesia even. Yeah. And because I had an out for a week, all of that, like muscle and pinning contracted and there was no way, like we cannot get it back in. And she did the amputation that next day and it was a tough amputation just because everything around it. So, I guess the point of that is, if it is out, it's best to address it sooner rather than a later if you are going to try to salvage it. But here's a chance, I don't know, that would have recovered, but he had been non-weight bearing for that whole time. So he had already adapted to using free leg. Yeah. Anyway, so by taking that pain away, he was like, I'm good. I'm good. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So it worked out. Yeah. And they can do fine on three legs. Yeah. So, yeah. That's good. Okay. Good stuff. We're cooking. Let's get it started, right? I just thought of that. So I'm black eyed these. Okay. Listen to your questions. This is a good one. So buckle up. Hi guys. I love the pod and have been enjoying it a bunch. I do have a question. What do you guys think about a mid-level position in vet med? I know the AVMA recently said it wouldn't be a good idea and basically said no. I know some vets who agree it would be beneficial and I know some who believe giving texo wider scope and a protected title would be more beneficial. What do you guys think? I'm currently enrolled in vet tech program and I definitely believe the title should be our VN registered vet nurse at Ethan Whitley. I'm going to enroll 1621. You forgot the dash. Dash, sorry. That is such a good question. And it's definitely a very new topic still. I mean, I know that AVMA spoke on it in last January but I think that's what the article said. But it, I mean, it's still very new. So what do you got back then? Oh, I printed the article, said article from the AVMA because I had heard mixed things as well and so I wanted to kind of see the foot they were standing on as far as their defense of why or why not. So but I'm curious to think what you guys thoughts are first. Wait, so she said, I don't understand the mid-level position in vet med. What does that mean? You would be like similar to like if you had a human nurse and then a nurse practitioner as I kind of like a step up. And I think a lot of it came from stemmed from there is a shortage in the vet field in general but veterinarians especially and people not being able to get in same day or even next day for their pet and just a shortage nationwide especially with a pandemic and now there's more animals than ever. And so I think it was a thought that was thrown out there but the AVMA has put a position statement out and you can Google it and see all the reasoning and I do stand by or agree with a lot of what they're saying about it and one of the points they brought up which I think is a good point is basically with that position you're creating a brand new position and you're kind of taking responsibility and roles from the vet side and then the vet tech side and making a middle man. But if you think about it with a vet and a vet tech together working as a team like there really should be no gaps to fill so then there's a big gray area of like what is their role who's liable you know things like that so. I did not know this was a thing. Yeah that's not the way I interpreted it but I like that. I think my biggest like immediate reaction is it doesn't make sense because our vet tech is already or vet nurses I agree it should be nurses honestly. I like I think that title fits more appropriately but they don't get the credibility the affirmation the financial support that they meet in general now preach and so now you're trying to create this new position that's going to take away from that. But then there's such a fine I think one of their things was how do you even create that like how do you create the educational realm with it. It's a whole new school system. Yes. How do you test them for it? Yeah. What do you add into the vet tech school to make it because like there's I don't know I mean people are educated about these kind of things but there's literally only five things that a vet can do legally that a technician can't do so like you said what do you take from that right and then at yeah I don't yeah I don't know how much it would benefit. It just is too sticky. Yeah. It just doesn't make sense. I think they did mention in this article I think the supporters of it and I'm sure there's also small animal supporters but it's a large animal community where it doesn't help the veterinarian or it doesn't make sense financially for their business or what have you to go see 30 different cows in different places in a day because they just can't do that. So I think the thought in the rural areas was okay what if you know you have someone who's trained to do pregnancy checks or you know just things like that where then the the veterinarian DVM could go treat the ill sicknesses or something. That would make sense yeah. But then it's still like you can't even get enough people to come do those things in general how are you going to convince them and they mention it how are you going to convince them to come do that with just a new position. I agree. And with our animal too like that is one area where there's a huge shortage you're not only worried about that cow like that patient that's a huge public health risk to everyone you know that that cow is probably going to go into the food chain at some point and so there's a lot of downward effects from a decision like that. So yeah I think there would be so many challenges with adding that in just the AVMA was just not supportive about that. Yeah. I think retention of employees is already difficult as well. So again you're trying to add in yet another branch of it that you're going to have trouble filling either you're going to fill that position because it's going to have some nice enticement to the title or the financial component but then you're going to lose a lot of capable veterinary nurses. So yeah it's just a spiral. Yeah. I think I think I think I think that's already like an appropriate mid-level position. I don't think there's a need for something in between that and a vet because like Courtney said I mean there's already only five things. Yeah. I just don't. Yeah. Because I don't see myself like on a I mean like I don't I mean I'm guessing like it'd be like a nurse practitioner would be able to prescribe medications but I'm not running into like a whole bunch where I'm like man I just wish I could prescribe this animal meds right now like it's not I don't know I don't feel any for it personally and I'm in the field so. Let me make sure there's like situations where I'm like we can guess what doctor is going to do. Right. We just need that okay which it's not that many hoops to jump through like. Yeah. I think too like a big problem we are about not so much here at this clinic but I've seen it before in other clinics is people or clinics aren't using their vet techs to their full capacity. Yeah. And if everyone did that and everyone had for example here we have a one-to-one ratio of a doctor to tech which is amazing and not a lot of places have that ability but if you did that and you use them to their full capacity I don't even think this would be getting brought up. Yeah. Completely good. Totally because I've heard like technicians who come and work here friends that I have they work at clinics are like we don't even get to draw blood we don't even get to that like they're not using the doctors do it all but then that's not using the doctors time wisely because they could be doing things that we can't do it. Yeah. So I don't think like you said they're not utilizing their skills the way they should be. Yeah. I liked the statement that it's in the same article but it's from the National Association of Veterinary Technicians in America and so it's the board and they stated that their recent survey shows a strong interest in title protection for credentialed veterinary technicians optimizing engagement of veterinary technicians and increasing wages and compensation as more immediate priorities than creating this position and I just I agree with that. I echo it. I think that all of those things need to be addressed appropriately and at the utmost before even considering something different. Yeah. Sure. I agree. It's a great question though. Yeah. I would love to hear like the thoughts behind the vets the vet nurses whoever in the industry who is in support of it like I'm just truly curious of like what their thoughts are. They are never crossed my mind. They just caught me. I can't see. I'm just. Yeah. I mean I do understand with the pandemic how it just skyrocketed there's just not a lot of I don't know availability and I feel like there's already shortage of veterinarians and I don't want that to take away from even more veterinarians like oh like I'll take one less step and all this via practitioner or whatever you mean. Yeah. And then how would they figure that out with school because you guys go through obviously years and years of schooling and in their accelerated programs or texts where it's only a year and a half. Yeah. And find a middle ground. I don't really know how educationally too they would separate it. Like how do you pick of everything that we learn how do you pick what would be appropriate for the mid-level or not. I just yeah. Yeah. Well the licensing too like if the thing was okay texts or whatever can now prescribe meds how do you that I don't know. Yeah. Like the credential that you have to have. Yeah. Yeah I think I read that for to prescribe it would take an act of Congress and all 50 states would have to agree. Oh yeah. That's just never. Yeah. Right now there are nine states that don't even have anything about texts needing to be licensed like in their practice. Oh yeah. Yeah. So they're not we need to work on that before we're like jumping to another step. Yeah. Yeah. Great. How do you guys feel about RV and versus RVT? I'm all behind it. I like the way RVT sounds. But when you say I'm a technician they're like oh so you do nothing. Like it's just not. No I'm not. I mean it's the same thing they're not educated but nurse sounds a hell of a lot more professional and like oh you're a nurse. Yeah. Like you're not just yeah I don't think technician has the respect aspect. I think it just fits your job description better like it's a more of a global like. Yeah exactly because everyone has a pretty good idea of what human nurses do and yeah you're the same thing just for animals. So it's I think more for like the lay people or the people outside of our industry I guess to have a but then again it's like well we should we care what they think I don't know. It's about respect I think too. So consistency and good help. Fascinating. Good question. That's a great question. I like calling this the pod too. Yeah the pod. We're a pod. We're a pod. It just reminds me of love is blind on that place. How they meet in the pods. Oh it's good. It's good. It is a show or movie. It's a show. It's like a social experiment. But I'm sure it's edited. Yeah. Very much though. I don't think I've ever seen it. It's good. It's good. It's good. It's good. It's neat. Okay. outro. You want to take us out, Shmooke? Oh sure. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the Veterinary Roundtable. Remember, send in those questions and leave us a review if you enjoyed this episode or a previous one. We'll see you in a few weeks for the next episode of the Veterinary Roundtable. In our new location. Good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. TBD.[MUSIC]