Ordinary People Extraordinary Things
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Ordinary People Extraordinary Things
83. Struggling to see God as Father due to Earthly Dads with Neil Matthews
Ever struggled to trust God due to negative experiences with earthly fathers? Join us on this episode of "Ordinary People Extraordinary Things" as we sit down with Neil, our passionate guest and a proud Tar Heel, who shares his transformative journey of faith by forming genuine, transformative relationships.
Our conversation delves into the struggle many face in trusting God due to negative experiences with their earthly fathers and offers insights on how separating divine perfection from human flaws can strengthen our faith.
In our final segment, prepare to be moved by a touching story from a memorable golf game that underscores the omnipresence of God. Neil reflects on how God’s presence witnesses every significant moment in our lives, even when our earthly fathers may not. We also discuss the nature of God’s goodness and the comfort of knowing He is always there, despite our human imperfections.
To wrap things up, Neil shares a heartwarming story from his experience at a body shop that highlights the profound impact of kindness and gratitude. This episode is a heartfelt exploration of faith, trust, and the transformative power of grace in our daily interactions.
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Stories shared by guests may not always be shared views of OPET.
Being a guest does not mean OPET approves of every decision or action in the guests' life.
We all have a story, all of us, share your story. You don't have to have the perfect answer or the perfect life - share what Jesus is doing in your life. This is an easy, real way to witness & share your testimony.
Welcome to Ordinary People Extraordinary Things. I'm so glad you're here. I'm your host, nancy Brucher, and I get to talk to ordinary people just like you about real stories, stories of faith and hope. Would you do me a favor, wherever you listen, could you give us a five-star rating or write a review? This really helps other people find Ordinary People Extraordinary Things, but also if they see a review or five stars, they know it's worth their time. Thank you so much for helping us out with that. Well, welcome to Ordinary People Extraordinary Things. I'm here with Neil Neil. Thanks for being on.
Speaker 2:So excited to be here today, so excited on. So excited to be here today, so excited. I haven't done I haven't done a guest appearance and I can't tell you when, because I don't remember the last time, but it was good. All the times I've done them, they've been good. I just like hosting more than I like guesting.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm glad you said yes. Neil is the host of Other People's Shoes, so we will. Yeah, we will definitely link that, and he was so gracious to have me on a few weeks ago, so I'm excited to hear a little bit of his story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. Your story is pretty incredible too. We were in this deer series and so we're on the verge of wrapping that up, but your story about your grandfather and just how you're helping people save those precious memories and how to how to create those, to me is is really amazing and extraordinary all in itself, if I do say so myself.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Well, if people don't know who you are, can you give three words or phrases to describe yourself?
Speaker 2:Oh, three, I'm going to do four because I have a thing against three, if that's OK. People don't know who you are. Can you give three words or phrases to describe?
Speaker 1:yourself.
Speaker 2:Three. I'm going to do four because I have a thing against three, if that's okay. So the first thing I would say, first phrase is husband, so that's one. Second phrase I would say is Tar Heel, so that's two. Third phrase I would say is podcast, and I should have probably let off with disciple, but I got the order mixed up. But you can mix them around and make them however you want, that's perfect what was the second one?
Speaker 1:what's that mean?
Speaker 2:uh, tar heel, I think I think I probably said yeah. So a Tar Heel is the mascot or the nickname for the state of North Carolina. It is jersey, but I always have a little North Carolina Tar Heel with me everywhere I go.
Speaker 1:So and did you go to that school?
Speaker 2:I have been to the school, I will say I did not graduate from there, no, but I'm just a huge fan. I became a fan when I was in sixth grade. So what is that? 11 or 12 and just never looked back, wow, and now everything in my life and wardrobe and I mean outside of Christ, is probably the next thing. The next marker you could identify me with is the marker of being a Tar Heels fan.
Speaker 1:So yes, all right.
Speaker 2:Thank you for those. Yes, passionate about it, as you can tell.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So in the Christian world we would say share your testimony. And if you're not into Christian lingo, it just means how did you come to faith, right yeah?
Speaker 2:No, that's dumb it down a bit right. What does that mean?
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's how did you come to faith? That's a great question. I love that one. So I I, you know I was a church kid. I was an Awana kid Awana basically like the Cub Scouts for church.
Speaker 2:I remember going to that and I remember we had a guy in our group who was kind of overseeing the misfits, that was, us as as kids, um, from all walks of life, by the way, because we went to church in first Baptist church of Carlsbad, which, as far as I know, that church doesn't exist any longer, but, um, the, the building does, but the name does not any. In any event, I had this guy named John bald guy. I remember that about him. I don't much more than that, but he prayed for us every single week for us to have a saving type faith or a Jesus encounter. And I remember towards the end of Awana's one night they had like an altar call and I remember going forward, probably at the age of nine, nine or 10, somewhere in that frame, and and I knew something needed to change in my life because John was very good about telling us what sin was and what it looked like and if we had it kind of like bacteria or plank or cavities or you know stuff in our teeth that get on our teeth, plank, or cavities. Or you know stuff in our teeth that get on our teeth, yeah, cavities, tartar buildup, kind of like that he did, he always articulated it that way and so he's like you know, it's sin, you can't see it Just like this tartar buildup in your mouth. I'm like, was he a hygienist? I don't know, he could have been, but again, I don't remember. But he said you know, if you have that stuff in your life, you got to get rid of it, you got to clean it out. And I just remember feeling just gross all the time and I remember I needed something to make me clean.
Speaker 2:Now, what that was I didn't know at the time. It was Jesus, till John kind of articulated again that out to us. But I remember walking the aisle and I remember saying like a sinner's prayer Some are familiar with that perhaps if they grew up around the church setting and I thought, ok, good, I'm great, I'm good, I'm golden, I'm perfect. And he's like well, you should probably get baptized. And I was like cool, I get to be up front in the big fish tank with with yeah, let's do that, that sounds fun. And so I did that, that I thought, okay, awesome, you know, I made this, this great step of faith.
Speaker 2:But you know, monday came and I, I still was the same Neil, I still was the, the goofy, you know, annoying, bad mouth and his mom and dad kid and very angry, and I really thought Jesus would come in and take all that away. Well, there was no real quote unquote discipleship like I know now, and to me it was sad. You know, if I could time travel somehow, I would probably pull that nine-year-old, me aside, sock him in the face first because he's probably a punk, but then, after he stopped crying, I'd probably put my arm around him and just remind him that, yes, even though he's angry, jesus has so much more for him, because at the age of 16, he's going to discover who Jesus really is. Sad moment in my life emotionally, and really cried out to God, I think for the first time in genuineness, unlike nine, and said God, use me. Here I am and that's really when I saved my faith, really kind of became my own and not from that Juana kid or the church type setting that I grew up in.
Speaker 1:What happened at 16?
Speaker 2:Well, I think a lot of things happened. Yeah, I think a lot of things happened at 16. I think girls happened at 16. I think, you know, I think for me, at 16, I really truly said and discovered that I couldn't have a faith of someone else, I couldn't have the faith of people I saw, or mentors that were maybe in my life. I had to make it my own and, and you know it's this I can't, I can't exactly put pinpoint on it or put a pin in it, exactly circle. You know what I refer to. You know this, this experience of like man, your emotions are, are just all over the place and you're in a very vulnerable spot.
Speaker 2:And I think the speaker just hit it just right. You know, again, he didn't articulate it with with, uh, you know, tartar buildup on our teeth. No, he referred to it as the cross. And there are things that you've done in your life that really have separated you from Christ, that have kept you away from him. And write those down and let's pin them to the cross tonight, one of those type kind of fireside moments, and I remember pinning stuff to the cross. My thought life, my, you know, my ability to just manipulate people was also one of the things I think I wrote down, but the big one was my thought life, because at that time at 16, I was I did not have the purest of thoughts and I wasn't taking every thought captive like you know, we so often should, or I so often should and others should as well and so I think that was the big kind of turning moment in my life to say, okay, something needs to be different, something truly needs to happen.
Speaker 1:No, that's good. I feel like a lot of people can relate to that and just growing in your faith. And yes, you made a decision, but maybe you weren't quite there yet and I like that you shared that with us. You mentioned discipleship. What did that mean to you?
Speaker 2:Well, I'll tell you, I just really truly learned about discipleship probably about 10 years ago Again. I grew up in a church setting. Now, I wouldn't say our house was, quote unquote Christian per se. It's not like my dad know, my dad would do daily devotionals or, you know, nightly prayers or anything like that, which is so weird. But he just didn't do that. Nor did my mom. But Christ was in our home Like we knew who he was, but he wasn't the key figure like he should be.
Speaker 2:So again back to discipleship. I grew up kind of in that environment and so I even got into youth ministry. I became a youth pastor and associate pastor at a church and I just thought, man, you just teach people about Jesus and that's it, and the kids will get it and that's fine. And I never again thought of or was taught and not that they're wrong for not teaching me or whatever I just again wasn't taught that. And so I grew up and got into ministry where you just taught kids on Sunday and that was it. You taught kids on Wednesday, that was it. You never really did anything other than that. You really hoped your talk on Sunday and even on youth group nights would take and they would just blossom from it. They'd just naturally get it. And the reality of it is that's not how that works.
Speaker 2:And so I ended up leaving that church for various reasons and ended up starting at a new church, ironically enough called New Beginnings, where I'm currently at, and they have a big focus on one-on-one discipleship.
Speaker 2:And for the first time I was like wait, what is this discipleship stuff? I started getting discipled by older men in the church and and even some of my peers, like helping me kind of get off some of my rough edges and some of the things that that God has maybe been working on me that I didn't want to own up to or maybe kind of hide or shy away from. And these men are very bold and and vocal and like no, you got to get that out of your life. And so for the first time here I am getting discipled and I'm like, whoa, that's how you do it. And then that then carried over into youth group, I'm like, oh, that's how we, that's how we now minister to kids is through discipleship. So to me the discipleship was the last piece. If we're playing like a trivial pursuit, is the last eye to to kind of complete that circle for me to say, oh yes, we're finally winning the day on that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I feel like that's another word that we can use in the Christian world and not really know what it means.
Speaker 2:I would, I would agree and I think a lot of times again. I think people think they're doing discipleship, but are they really? Are they knee deep in it with somebody? Are they walking through the mud and the mire and the just crap to to really dig deep in with somebody and walk truly with them and try to help them understand and pull them along with you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's a good way to put it. So, um, not having the niceties, but being able to really. Someone knows who you are and you know who they are, so you can refine each other, Absolutely Iron, sharpens iron.
Speaker 2:You know, scripture says yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:That's really good. Well, you said you don't like threes and I was. I was thinking of the Trinity when we hear of God the Father, god the Son and God the Holy Spirit. So I was wondering if that was one of the reasons you didn't like three.
Speaker 2:Listen, there's. That's probably the only good thing about the three Okay, and probably the second being you know it took three days. You know he was he's. You know. Three he's raised to life again. I don't know. Three to me it's an odd number. Obviously, on more ways than one it is an odd number, but for me also, three just feels like it's not complete. Four, like I'm wearing right now, I have a jersey that has a number four on it. Four to me feels more whole, like everyone gets a piece. Three, it feels like somebody's left out, so outside of the Trinity, outside of Jesus's death, burial and resurrection. On the three days, yes, I will concede that point, that three is okay in those environments, but the number just is. I don't know. I don't know if there's a thing called EBGBs, but I don't know. Three just seems to be a bad thing sometimes for me. That seems to always come in threes also, by the way. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is a thing, Don't they say, like the third thing is going to drop, yeah, yeah. Four is my favorite, number two, so I'll throw that out there.
Speaker 2:There you go See, and if anyone likes the Enneagram I don't know if that's still a thing. That was a thing a couple of years back. I think it's still in some circles I'm an Enneagram four, so for those Enneagram fans out there now you know I'm also a four, so what, which one is that? I think it's the romantic that's all. I remember it being I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't really subscribe to the Enneagram stuff anymore, so but okay, yeah, I was like I don't know, I don't really subscribe to the Enneagram stuff anymore, so, but okay, yeah, I was like I don't know what that number is, all right. So my question with the Trinity is what would you say to those who have a hard time trusting God, the father, because they don't have a good earthly father?
Speaker 2:Boy. That's a tough one because for me, um, that's been part of my story truly, and um, and I think that's the hard part sometimes is how do you trust the godly, the father, when your own father was a challenge, and so to me I would. I would counsel them or maybe share with them. You have to eliminate dad on earth and you have to try to remember and try to focus on the fact that God is not your dad.
Speaker 2:You know God is not your earthly dad, and that because your earthly dad may have let you down, may have disappointed you, may have left you, but because your earthly dad may have let you down, may have disappointed you, may have left you, I have a good friend named Tom who has a crazy story about his dad never coming to pick him up and he would sit out into the box of God and apply the same expectations and the same level of love or not love. And I think that's where you, or that's where I have been, I should say, malformed and I've really had to eliminate that that God is true. Even though sometimes I don't feel like he's true, god is loving. Even though sometimes I don't always feel like he's true, god is loving. Even though sometimes I don't always feel like he's loving, god is always there. And I think those three things I do constantly have to remind myself. Because, you know, I'll tell you one story in particular that comes to mind.
Speaker 2:I was playing golf one time with some friends, one of my buddies from elementary school, ironically enough. So we're still friends, so that's kind of a cool story. But uh, he brought his sons with him that day, so we were playing like a foursome and so hit him and his sons, they hit. And then I'm hitting last fourth, by the way, because again I don't like things in three so I'm hitting fourth and they hit, and they start walking down and I say, hey guys, I'm going to hit. So they're kind of away from where I'm hitting, so I don't hit them.
Speaker 2:And I hit this amazing shot, just absolutely gorgeous shot, and I started walking down and I'm like, oh my gosh, did you guys see it? Did you see it? And all three of them turn around. They're like no, no, we didn't, we didn't see it. I was like, oh man, how did you not see that? It was amazing. Like look, it's on the green right now. It's like three feet from the cup. Like, oh my gosh, so incredible. And so, anyway, they're like just kind of bugged that I'm, you know, maybe yelling and screaming and freaking out, and so they keep walking and I was really disappointed because they didn't see it. Nobody saw it. I saw it, nobody else did, and I literally remember this just clearest day. I'm walking down down it was a great day in Southern Oregon and I'm walking down and I hear this voice inside me. That isn't my voice, that isn't you know. I don't know if it's God or not, but I did hear clearly, very clearly say well, I saw, it Is that not good enough and I was like well yeah of
Speaker 2:course it is. And then I, you know maybe went into this prayer moment as I'm, you know, not like dropped to my knees or you know just quietly in my head, I started praying. I thought, well, how many, how many other moments have you seen that that maybe you just never said anything? How many other moments have you? I mean because that was the big thing when I was a kid is, my dad didn't see the moments, he didn't participate in the big moments of my life. And so this amazing shots, this, you know, whatever, this amazing thing that maybe I accomplished at school or when I was running cross country and track, also in high school, he didn't see any of those moments and I was always like, why couldn't you see him, why couldn't you be there?
Speaker 2:And then I started to think you know, god's been there the whole time. He's seen every moment, and to me that's that's the big difference Is there's always. There could always be disappointment with the earthly father because he wasn't there, he didn't see, but there should never be disappointment in the Godfather because he's seen every moment. He was there the moment I was born, he breathed life into me. He's been there for every moment. So how can I be disappointed in that when I think back to those moments.
Speaker 1:That was really beautiful. Thank you, I hear that a lot and I'm sure you do too, that it's hard to trust a God that refers to him as a father. You know he refers to himself as a father, I think Jesus' son, just generalities probably, like that would be the easiest one. And then the Holy Spirit is like I don don't really get it, but it's not upsetting. But but god the father, I think might have a few things that we contextually maybe bring our own hurt into it. If our father wasn't great, or even if he was, I mean, he's still human right and so to kind of see that differently. But also I feel like I've heard a lot lately that people are seeing God the Father more of just the Old Testament and if you just pull out certain parts of the Old Testament it might feel like oh, he's really mad.
Speaker 2:He had reason to be mad. He had reasons to be mad. But I hear what you're saying. I get flack from my friends at church and even the people on the worship team at our church, because the song by Chris Tomlin it's one of my favorite songs to hate on because it says you're a good, good father. It's who you are. It's like well, if you're really that good of a father, you would have stopped this from happening. If you're really that good of a father, why isn't this happening? And then somebody said to me they pushed on that. They said well, if he's that good of a father and he's not meeting every single need and want you have, that makes him a genie, not a God. I'm like oh right, so do I want a genie or do I want a God? Because, going back to your three, if I have a genie I only get three wishes and that's it, that's all. I'm out. But with God there's so much more unlimitedness because he's not limited to the three.
Speaker 1:He's omnipresent. He's everywhere at once. Is that what you tell yourself when you get upset with the good? Good father is the genie thing, or I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I. I just I think, when I get upset with God, I have to again go back to well one. Why am I upset with him?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Is it because he somehow let me down? Is he somehow disappointed me? And then I have to remind myself well, if I like him in the good, I got to like him in the bad too right.
Speaker 2:I can't have it both ways. I can't say, oh, you're just awful and you're mean, and you're just this kid on the hill burning ants with a magnifying glass, right, I have to take the good with the bad, and I think that's true in any relationship. You do have to take the good with the bad. But, yes, I will say that viewing God from the lens of through my dad has been truly a challenge. But again, to me, I have to separate the two and I have, anytime I catch myself doing, I'm like, wait a second, not the same, it's not the same person, it's truly almost like. I'll give you an example I, in middle school this is really long time ago, so way before my wife. So in middle school, this is really long time ago, so way before my wife.
Speaker 2:So in middle school, I liked this girl. Her name was Amanda and she was very pretty and I took, you know, took everything in me to finally talk, talk to her in six period social studies. She, you know, she sat two seats in front of me and it took me like half the year to finally go up and just talk to her because she was, in my mind, just out of my league, just super pretty, right, and I finally did, and she was absolutely awful to me. She was it's middle school. I'm sure I smelled, I don't know, but she just was really mean to me. But the thing is is that for a long time, anytime I met an Amanda after that, I would put that Amanda into that girl's place from six period social studies.
Speaker 2:That Amanda, that's not fair to anybody. Amanda that I may meet in the future, it's a good thing. My wife's name's not Amanda, by the way, it's Elizabeth, not Amanda. But my point is is that we can't do that and I think I've done that and I hope others don't do. That is we take somebody's impressions, something that's happened to us, and we immediately think well, this is God's fault. Well, wait a second, how do you know it's his fault? Well, if he's all powerful, he should have stopped it. Well, what if he's using it to make us grow or using it to help me grow? Should he stop the growth? No, well, I like that story that was a good story about Amanda.
Speaker 1:What a great way to see that in a different light. And I also liked how you said you have to keep reminding yourself, because sometimes I think God gives us a full. Oh, I'm free of that and I've never done that again, I've never had to think about that. And other times it might always be kind of a struggle where you have to be like oh yes, I have to forgive this person again. Yes, I have to again, yes again, and just give that over. So I appreciate your candidness with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, I love talking to you and I've loved hearing some of your story and your testimony and discipleship and all these words that we we use in Christianity. I always end mine with three different questions. One is what is your favorite Bible verse or story?
Speaker 2:Well, I'll give you both. My favorite Bible verse always comes back to Acts 20, 24, which says for I consider my life worth nothing to me.
Speaker 2:Apostle Paul talking here. If I may finish the race and complete the task, the Lord Jesus has given me the task of testifying to the gospel. That was given to me my sophomore year of high school by my youth leader because I just started running track and I wrote it on my spikes, my track spikes, I wrote it on my running shoes, I wrote it everywhere, and anytime I go to a gathering where I have to sign my name to somebody's card, like maybe a wedding thing or whatever I'll generally, you know, scribe that somewhere. In fact, our rental house, now that we're in a new house, our rental house actually has it inscribed in the concrete because we had some concrete work done, so I had somebody actually scribe it in there. So I don't know if my renters are believers or not, but they're going to look up that verse and go oh well, look at that, he's testifying.
Speaker 2:My favorite story Boy. That is a hard one, but I'm going to pick really love the woman at the well. In John, chapter four, verse four, where Jesus talking to the woman at the well I think second only to the woman caught in the act of adultery where Jesus is writing on the ground. I'd love to know what he wrote. What did he write? I want to know, I want to know. So that's what I want to know. So I know I gave you. I see I gave you three. You should be happy. I gave you three there.
Speaker 1:I gave you two stories and a verse. So what about the woman at the well, what speaks to you with that?
Speaker 2:Well, I think a couple of things speaks to me. The first thing is one it's the first time, as far as I know, bible people can check me and fact check me and call me I'm wrong and tell me that I'm okay. But I think it's the first time he declares unequivocally no kind of analogy or parables. It's the first time he declares that he is the Messiah. You know parables. It's the first time he declares that he is the messiah. So that's that's powerful to me. The second is how empathetic he was to her and even with the woman caught in the act of adultery, he, he did not allow anything to derail his message. He was there for her. He was there for her. To me, I think that's what it's all about. Is I got to be there for people in some form or fashion? I have to be there, I have to put myself in their place, and maybe that's why I do what I do with my show, is I really try hard to be in their shoes.
Speaker 1:So anyway, no, that's good. And you see, even though those were small things, he really, I want to say, discipled them because he dove straight into what was really going on in their lives Right and I mean I don't think most of us could dive that fast, that quickly with someone. But I mean he got into the nitty gritty of of what was going on with them 100 percent, and I think that's the beauty of of who Jesus was and who Jesus is. Yeah, that's good yeah.
Speaker 2:What are you grateful for? I mean, listen, I don't know how she's done it. She's done it for 23 years, more than that, she. She started doing it in 1997, december 12th 1997, at about 8.20 in the morning. I am grateful every day for my wife and I know that sounds corny and maybe cliche to some, but outside of my salvation in Christ, I am truly grateful for her. She is the rock that stabilizes me, she is the love of my life. She is the one I wake up thinking about and I go to bed dreaming about. Um, she's just beautiful inside and out and and truly. Without her I'm probably a bum down on the street, living in a van down by the river, looking for a motivational gift, you know.
Speaker 1:I do like the SNL yeah right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for all those who are old enough to remember that, matt Foley, I'm a motivational speaker.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that was lovely. I think we actually need more of that in our world. Is people building their, their husband or their wife up so thank you, yeah, absolutely. What kindness have you shown or what kindness have you received in the last week?
Speaker 2:Um, well, it hasn't been the last week, but I'll tell you. I'll tell you about a about a year ago. This one really rocks my world and I'll make it quick, cause I know we got like nine minutes left, so I'll try to. About a year ago, this one really rocked my world and I'll make it quick because I know we got like nine minutes left, so I'll try to go fast. So I work at a body shop. That's my real job, not podcasting, unfortunately is not my real job.
Speaker 2:But anyway, we had this guy come in, asian guy, didn't speak any English, and so I was using Google Translate, we were going back and forth and it was was really hot day, cause it was last summer, and I remember saying to him cause I have some water in my fridge, just off camera. And I said hey man, can I get you some water? And I just remember him handing him the bottle and him just weeping. And I asked him. I said why are you weeping? It's just water, you know. And he said he said I've been in the country now for three and this is the kindest thing anybody's ever done for me. I don't understand why. And I said well, here's why. And I told him. You know, I kind of very succinctly, through Google Translate, which is really hard because I'm pretty articulate, but to have to go to a phone to write it out to, then it was, and I don't do that very well. I'm not very good skilled when it comes to writing things, I'm more of the talkers, you can probably gather. But in that moment I thought man God, you're just really stripping everything away that I have in my toolbox and you're making me go out of my comfort zone to really share the gospel with this guy. But I did, and and I'll tell you what he came back later that day and just like, hugged me, wept and said I just I had to get you a coffee. I don't even know if you drink coffee, but here you go. You were so kind to me and to me. That's what it's about.
Speaker 2:Every day is looking for ways to show grace, looking for ways to give grace. And I have this little rock on my desk. I don't know if you'll use the video or not, but there's a rock in my hand right now that says, in pink, writing grace and to me. I look at it every day and I think to myself who am I going to give grace to, and it's not like a choice. It's not like I'm picking a kickball team, like, okay, I'm going to get this kid and then this kid and then this kid. No, it's the constant reminder to me to say everyone gets grace. Today, like Oprah used to right you get a car, you get a car, you get a car. Grace is that way for me. It's like you get grace, you get grace. I'm giving you grace today and I'm not being selective on it, and that experience truly taught me that that moment is to give grace and to give water where you can. So there you go.
Speaker 1:That's good. Wow, that's really good. Well, neil, thanks for being on. I appreciate your time and I appreciate you telling part of your story. I think it's really going to resonate with some people, maybe the part about a father, or just the testimony and the discipleship, and maybe someone's like. You know, I really need to get into discipleship, I really need to figure this out, and so I appreciate you sharing that with us.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, it's been my pleasure. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:All right, well, join us next time on Ordinary People, extraordinary Things, where your story is His glory. Thank you for joining Ordinary People, extraordinary Things. I hope that this podcast was impactful for you. I will see you in two weeks for a brand new episode of Faith and Hope. Don't forget to give us a five-star rating and write a review so that others can find Ordinary People, extraordinary Things.