88: Nagging: Reducing the friction using the magic of routine.

Is it a constant battle to get your teens to do the right thing? Getting them to bed on time, eating healthily, keeping their screen time to an acceptable level are all problems that come up regularly. So when a listener asked for a script to use to get her teens into bed I decided that it was worth delving into what other parents are doing right and how we can adapt their behaviour to our own households.

The research has made me rethink my own life structure and the importance of routine in decluttering my life.

KEY REFERENCES:
Atomic Habits - James Clear
Podcast with Angela Duckworth - No Stupid Questions - 186 Do You Need a Routine?
App I've started using: Streaks

RESOURCES USED:
https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/your-stories/the-importance-of-routine/
https://zapier.com/blog/daily-routines/
https://journals.lww.com/iycjournal/fulltext/2007/10000/Family_Routines_and_Rituals__A_Context_for.2.aspx
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6378489/

SOME LISTENER RESPONSES:
Melissa: I don't think I said much. Other than you sleep better if you don't do tech just before bed. I think intially the cut off was an hour before bedtime. Which gave flexibility to give them a ten minute warning etc.  Son mostly now stops tech before without prompting. 

Grant:  As part of screen time, there is an option to set down time on each of their devices. It works well for us. 

Natalie:  No phones, laptops or TVs in their rooms after 9.30pm but equally we, as parents, have to do the same. Read before bed, everyone asleep by 10.30pm latest on a school night. Not had to resort to plan B yet (WiFi turned off) as they do it.  Lead by example. Also no phones or TV at dinner and we all eat together every night. I'm a big believer in systems and routines. Less arguments as no suprises. 

Ashleigh We try and stick to 8pm cut off. And it helps when they have sports training they need to sleep for

Holly
We have a 9pm cutoff. Phone gets plugged in in the hallway outside the room

Sarah I have a cut off too. I started this when they were younger and then each year gradually increased the cut off, but they had to prove to me that they could come off their devices at the allotted time and get up for school the next day without any arguments. If they didn’t come off at the agreed time or were difficult the next morning, the agreement was that they would lose some screen time the next night by coming off earlier.

I work on a “prove you can be trusted” basis with both my teens for almost everything. I rarely have trouble with them as they can see the benefits of trust e.g. they get to do more!  it’s worked wonders for my 17 year old who is having the time of her life going to lots of “s

Transcript

Rachel Richards: 0:02

Hello and welcome to teenagers untangled the audio hub for parents going through the teenage years. I'm Rachel Richards parenting coach journalists mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters.

Susie Asli: 0:12

Hi there. I'm Susie Asli mindfulness coach, mindful therapist and musician and mother of three teenagers to did

Rachel Richards: 0:19

you have a good sleep last night? Yeah, good. Good. I did too. I got a little notification on my app from my watch saying, I've got a run. I've like got a badge asleep as badge. Oh, because we've done sleep before, haven't we? And we talked about how important it was. Well, we received a lovely message from Lou Who said her teens are 16 and 15 bedtimes used to be so lovely. Right. Remember the little baths and bubbles, stories? Nursery Rhymes, Cuddles kisses? Now she gets death, stares over a screen and ignored when she says it's bedtime. Yeah. Yeah. She says, Could you please give me the secret script for getting my teeth?

Susie Asli: 0:59

We would love to

Rachel Richards: 1:02

you keeping the secret is

Susie Asli: 1:03

so secret that I just can't say.

Rachel Richards: 1:08

Yeah,

Susie Asli: 1:10

lots of ways of approaching it. No, I'm

Rachel Richards: 1:11

sure there are many of us who can relate to what she said honestly. And she goes on to say I'm worried that they're not getting enough quality sleep and too much screen time before bed. I can't reason with them. Because it's either a blank face or an argument, which I frustratingly return with empty threats or just leave them to it. I listened to the sleep podcast, but I felt it lacked the How to conversation detail and step by step instruction for this delicate operation. Because I don't know that's not strictly true, but it is. But the thing is, I started thinking about scripts, and I know that there are coaches who sell scripts, like they say, Well, I've got scripts for this that you can pay for them. So um, you can search for the scripts if you want. But the truth is, I don't buy scripting. And I don't because we're all different. And our kids are all different. Yeah. And if you kind of came up with a screen, my kids be like, Man, you're right. Yeah. What are you doing?

Susie Asli: 2:09

But then we have ideas. And there's such a there's a spectrum of ways to approach it. Yes.

Rachel Richards: 2:14

I've given this this your huge amount of thought. And what I've come up with has completely changed me. Really not completely, but quite a bit, and hopefully will make the difference to anyone with whom it resonates more on that in a minute. Firstly, do you have a review?

Susie Asli: 2:31

I do. It's a lovely, and it's a short one here. I felt really lonely in my struggles as a parent, and you really changed that. Your show really is that hug I need on my hard day's today was another one. Thank you so much. That was

Rachel Richards: 2:45

fi and fi has written a very long message, which we're going to base an entire episode on. Right. And she's been very Wow, she's really, really interesting and useful. And she's a pediatrician. So we'll we'll come back to her on a different episode. Thank you fee. And just a quick one from Nelson BC, Canada. Hi, I've just listened to a couple of your podcasts and I absolutely love them. Thanks, Kristin. That's that's Kristin, you said that. Honestly, I was just preparing for supper when it popped up. And it absolutely made me beam right. Nuggets, Susie.

Susie Asli: 3:18

So my nugget is, is my kids are doing revision at the moment or two of them are they have exams coming up at the end of this week. And for the next few weeks, and it's really reminded me of this whole idea of holding space for our kids, and being flexible with what that space looks like. So I'm really busy with my work at the moment, which is lovely. But everything always comes at once doesn't it? But and I always put them first I just that's just how I work. And I'm able to do that. But this idea that, you know, the space that I hold for them looks really different for the two kids for starters, you know, one of them needs this and one of them needs that to feel balanced and to feel okay, one of them you know likes particular meals, one of them likes me to test them on their revision, one of them doesn't want me to go near them. You know, and some of sometimes, sometimes it's difficult to know what is needed. But just a reminder that holding space is just I feel it in the house if it if the space isn't being held properly, the the energy shifts, and this isn't actually making sense. No, it

Rachel Richards: 4:27

does. It does make sense, actually, and I mean, part of it is that you it's not equal it's equitable the relationship you have but it is also that it my kids can't cope and study if it doesn't feel like a study environment and that they're being respected for the fact that they're actually going through something a bit troubling. Yeah. And it can be very hard to do that. If you've got other kids running around or you know, the home environment is chaotic. But if you can find a space and you can support them with whatever it is that they need.

Susie Asli: 4:59

Yeah and be free. flexible. I mean, that's the thing that's being flexible with it. So that's, I have my own needs as well at the moment, but being able to pivot in the moment, it's okay. Alright, you need this now. Okay. Oh, you need that tomorrow. Brilliant. What can we do? Yeah. And not being rigid around it. Yeah, my idea of what they need might not match this. Yeah, no, I like

Rachel Richards: 5:17

that. I really like that. Mine has to do with how they, our kids don't learn things in a very procedural way. So we think that if we talk to them about something, they'll learn it. Yeah. So we did some time ago, an episode on empathy, and emotional intelligence. And, you know, when I learned things, I try and make sure my kids understand them as well. And I'll focus on it. But, you know, some goes in and some doesn't. And it was so interesting, because one of my kids this weekend said, you know, what, mommy, I've just realized something. And I said, What's that? And she said, great realize that, when someone tells me something that's painful, it's not actually very helpful for me to then go and tell them, the thing that I found painful. That was a bit like that. And she said, I thought that I was showing them that I understood, when I realized that that doesn't make them feel better. It makes them feel like it's all about me. Great awareness, unbelievable world awareness. But I was also like, I thought I told you this, but okay, this, actually, I just went, That's doesn't mean that it's really as good awareness. Because a lot of us don't get this and we get it wrong. And I said, Yes. And I said to her, darling, that's amazing. And And actually, the way to deal with it is when someone tells you something painful, you just say, you just pause and you look at them and just say, Wow, that that sounds really hard. Yeah, you can just say that you don't have to give them chapter and verse on anything. You don't have to fix anything. You just show them that you listened. Amazing, she's

Susie Asli: 6:53

experienced that. Because it's really common that people do that. And they think that they're sharing the space with the other person. And they're not they're just making them feel like they're not listening. Yes.

Rachel Richards: 7:03

And likewise, if they do that, you can say, oh, I can I can see that you you might feel like you're trying to be empathetic, but you're not you

Susie Asli: 7:11

can offer it. Can't you go I had an experience similar. Would you like to hear about it? No, no?

Rachel Richards: 7:18

No, about me. No, absolutely. Absolutely. All right. So back to the topic of sleep and bedtimes and scripts. I asked a lot of our listeners because I thought, come on, guys, we can all help each other here. And I got some excellent responses. Now I went on Twitter, I went on threads. I went on Instagram, Facebook, lots of wonderful help. And I'm not going to name everybody. But thank you, everybody for your feedback, because it was brilliant. All of the people who have no problem with getting their kids into bed have a definite routine. Interesting, huh. And the routine is easy to explain. And it's applied to everyone in the family. So Natalie summed it up best Natalie is also a fantastic author, by the way. No phones, laptops or TVs in their rooms after 930. But equally, we as parents have to do the same. Read before bed, everyone asleep by 1030 latest on a school night, not had to resort to Plan B yet Wi Fi turned off as they do it. Lead by example. Also no phones or TV at dinner and we all eat together every night. I'm a big believer in systems and routines, fewer arguments, no surprises.

Susie Asli: 8:22

Lovely. Sounds amazing. Yes. It's really interesting topic though. And just having a thing here mulling over. Like there's a whole wide spectrum of how we approach bedtime, isn't it from a very young age. So there's the, you know, the people who, who believed very much in natural consequences, you know, it should be the kids who decide when they're tired. So you teach them when they're tired enough, they will. And they'll they'll experience feeling awful the next day, and they will tweak their own bedtimes. And by the time they get to this age, that is a sort of a natural thing that they just do. And for some kids that works really well for some kids, it doesn't social media thrown into the mix makes that more complicated. I think before phones, that was a that was more straightforward, because there was less to be keeping you up. And then at the other end of the spectrum, there's, you know, adults, you know, micromanaging their teenagers, whereas maybe it's, you know, maybe that's too much the other way, and then there's everybody else in between. It's a really interesting topic of how we approach parenting in general. And it kind of shows up in this in this topic, I think.

Rachel Richards: 9:26

Yeah, I mean, coming from the sort of household I came from, I'm an absolute, just no to free wheeling. Because I had that and it's horrible. And everyone I've spoken to who has grown up in an environment where they didn't have boundaries. You know, I mentioned it to a woman recently, like I just asked her about her upbringing, and she told me chapter and verse about how she didn't have boundaries. It made her feel incredibly unsafe. And she had her therapy, and she's been really unhappy about it ever since. So, it hasn't how boundaries

Susie Asli: 10:00

are not put into place. So if it's kind of abandonment and not caring, then that that has a different spore than if it's response, you know, self responsibility. I'm going to, we're going to discuss this, when do you think you need to go to bed, I'm going to teach you how to notice when you feel tired, and put yourself to bed. And some for some kids, that works really well. I've heard that working really well. And for some kids, they're not able to manage it. But that's very different from just abandoning your kid and going,

Rachel Richards: 10:27

I hear what you're saying. But yeah, no one I agree. And I and I do think what you're talking about there is much more important when they're teenagers. I think the idea that you enforce a very rigid routine on the teenager can be very difficult. Because they're not really learning personal responsibility. And, and

Susie Asli: 10:46

then they move away from home and they don't know how to manage their own tiredness and their own. They will learn I mean, there's, there's no judgment in this. There's just it's just different, really different approaches. Yeah.

Rachel Richards: 10:58

And I personally, I'm, the reason I said that I this is actually had a really big impact on me is because I did grow up in a chaotic environment. I've been trying to put structure in ever since Yeah. And this made me really look at and I we talked before about sort of habits and things, but it really made me drill down into this whole subject. And there's a best selling book on this called atomic habits by James clear. And his quote is, you do not rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. Yes, I

Susie Asli: 11:32

love that. I've heard that quote before. It's brilliant. And routine

Rachel Richards: 11:36

is actually our friend. And it's, and it's really important. And so, for example, that one of the useful bits of research was by Katherine arlinghaus. And Craig Johnson, and it came from the American Journal of lifestyle medicine, it's called the importance of creating habits and routine. And they were looking at just people being healthy, having healthy lifestyles and, and changing to a more healthy lifestyle, and which includes consistent sleep. And they cite the hypothesis that the reason children gain more weight over summer, which they do is that their days are less structured. And children are more prone to engage in what they call obesogenic behaviors. And that they say routine is consistently found to be important for children. Now, what's the child? So of course, we're talking about teenagers, they're a bit older, everybody knows, well, most people know that, you know, routine. And that actually my first daughter, I did the whole, you know, feed on demand, whatever, I ended up with really far baby, and no time to myself. And then when the second one came along, I thought, it's a Rudy, you know, because I thought that it would work that she would tell me what she needed. But when you got to them, you just got I can't, I just can't. And I knew my life types and structure, and I need some sleep, though. They go on to say it's not just children, individuals in good health engage in highly routine healthy debate behaviors. And so what what are we? What are we talking about? Like, what's a habit? What's a routine? What's a ritual? So a habit is something you do automatically, like checking your email first thing in the morning, and it's often connected with a trigger. So like, we wash our hands, when we've been to the loo, because we just, you know, you walk past the basin, and there's the what you write routines are usually a collection of habits or actions you do on a regular basis, and they bring audits your day. And then rituals are like routines, but the key difference is the attitude that goes into it. So if you take your dogs for a walk, because you've got to take your dogs for a walk, and you're not part you know, you're just doing the quick walk, that's a routine. If you treat it as something where you've got to be present and you know, it's a very special time out in nature. That's a Richard becomes a ritual. So mindful

Susie Asli: 13:52

presence s are not autopilots here. Yeah. And

Rachel Richards: 13:56

like a routine habit requires little conscious thought. And, and then it can disappear if you don't have the cue. So the habits tend to have a cue, which and you can use habits to stack other habits. So we've mentioned this before, when I was talking about like if you want to news resolution, you want to change your behavior. If when you brush your teeth brushing teeth is the best one because you brush your teeth. And you can do wall sets, for example, or while you're brushing your teeth or whatever you want to do, you can add it to brushing your teeth. So I always cleanse my that I put the cleanser on, brush my teeth, and then I take the cleanser off. Now I never ever miss cleaning my face. Yeah, simple. So these routines, habit stacking can be very, very helpful. Now, a study conducted in the UK examined how long it takes for adults to form a healthy routine. How long do you think?

Susie Asli: 14:46

I don't know? Is it 30 days or something, isn't it? I've heard that I've

Rachel Richards: 14:49

heard that. On average, it took 66 to 60 seconds before it became automatic and physical activity behaviors which are arguably more complicated than say Eating or drinking took 1.5 times longer. Wow. Yeah. So depends on the intention behind doesn't depends on the intention, why they want to average is and the time it took to form a habit vary considerably across individuals. Right. So, so some people took his little

Susie Asli: 15:19

habit, then you know, well, I

Rachel Richards: 15:20

take you longer. No, but for some people, it took as little as 18 days, some people it was 250 250. Oh, wow. So, but the good news is not before performing the behavior one day doesn't have lasting effect on you performing the habit, unless you go, Well, I missed it yesterday. So it doesn't matter.

Susie Asli: 15:39

Yeah, yes. Which can actually happen, I think can actually happen.

Rachel Richards: 15:45

So, but why do we care about this? It's because when you have a habit, you have to make fewer decisions. That's really key. Right? And that's the problem here. And I think the problem was going to bed because I sat there and thought about this and thought, why, why are we so terrible at going to bed, because I'm not good at going to bed. And, and I've even so this, you'll laugh at this, I've I've will talk about this tracker in a minute. But I put a habit tracker in my phone. And one of the things is I want to be in bed by 10. So I can read my book for half an hour before I go to sleep. I haven't once gone into bed. Lots of reasons for it, but you know it, then it does tell me it tells me Look, here's you know, maybe my goal isn't right. But anyway. And I think the thing with going to bed is it's multi step process, isn't it? And what's the good thing at the end of it? I could go to sleep. And so you have to build things into it that are appealing or make those steps really automatic and simple. Yes.

Susie Asli: 16:42

Right. Yeah. Or take away from the stuff that you actually want to be doing. That's what I do. And it stems back from when the kids were little. And you know, I was doing it all on my own. And that was my only moment of peace and quiet. Thank goodness. They're all asleep, like hell,

Rachel Richards: 16:58

and then you're good.

Susie Asli: 17:00

Yeah, exactly. This is like a time to be to be and then of course, I'd go to bed too late. And every Tuesday. And of course, now they go to bed later for the mean. So that's, that's not so relevant. But I still have this idea that there's a bit of peace and quiet at the end of the day, and I'll go and I'll play the piano, then then I'll go really lovely, creative things because there's this kind of peace in the home. I like. And so then suddenly, it's midnight. And that's not great. exaggerating. But you know, it's kind of reminding myself that I can do those other time. Yes, it doesn't have to be late. Good point.

Rachel Richards: 17:33

And we've we've all done that we've fallen into that trap, haven't we? But I think it's interesting because Spagnola Well, there's a there's another study, I can't pronounce all the people but they talk about how family rituals, establish and perpetuate the understanding of what it means to be the member of that group. And actually, a few of the people who talked about it, were saying this is what our family does. This is who we are interesting. So that's a very useful thing to know. And one woman said, Who what we do is we at the specific time, we go upstairs and we do a cleansing ritual together. She does it with her daughter and she says My daughter loves it. So you could sort of build positive things into the routine. Because it's about the things don't tip us over the edge. Either that it's something that's become a habit or it's a pleasing thing.

Susie Asli: 18:23

Yes. Yeah. My daughter is amazing or going to bed. She's way better than I am like 100 times better than I am. She has and she has learned that if she doesn't go to bed, she feels awful the next day, so she has done it by natural consequences. Yeah, and she will she'll be the one calling me going. Mom, can you come and put me to bed? And can you come and say good night now pretty much every night. When she puts her phone off she does it all herself. I hear a brushing her teeth early so that she can just lie and chill in bed for a bit. It's amazing. Her twin brother is the exact opposite. I

Rachel Richards: 18:54

think that's very rare for teenage I think it's really rare. Yeah,

Susie Asli: 18:57

I mean, she she's, she's brilliant. But she has learned that she feels bad if she doesn't and she needs her sleep. And yeah, it's not gone. It's not gone through to me or her brother. She's like the only one in the home so it's interesting she has learned it that way. And my other twin has also recognized the idea that he goes to bed too late but he's he's quite disorganized so for him structure is challenging so it is helpful for him to have more structure around it but we've done the whole you know if you want to be in sleep by this time you need to do this this time this time and this time but he you know his time management is tricky. He's practicing he's learning it and it's usually get what throws him and myself off key is stuff we've forgotten stuff. We scroll up, right? Where's that or you need this tomorrow? Or have you got that or something that we the unexpected and the window suddenly goes oh, now it's late again. Yeah. Interested in isolation up to the bedtime? Yeah,

Rachel Richards: 19:57

yeah. And that's the stuff that occupies brains. Time, which then interrupts routines. Yes. And the routines are what really help us. Yeah, not because I look okay. So we'll come on to this in a second. But just just just to mention this blog that I found this woman, Claire, who absolutely had a mental health crisis, she had been fine all her life. And her therapist kept talking about, like, what have you done today? What are you doing tomorrow? And she had said, it was just really annoying, because she kept talking about routines and what I was doing, and she said, eventually it clicked. That actually, routines save us. They save us from our mental wearing and problems, because we're not having to think all the time. Yeah,

Susie Asli: 20:39

we have to be careful though. I'm just putting spanner in here. Yeah, go ahead. Because we're all very different. And I do quite a lot of I Aveda stuff. And we've had different types. And we have different ways of being in the world. It doesn't matter which system you use, but we can some people can quickly get very reliant on structure and routine and become toxic. Yes. And that can quickly switch and so they panic when they haven't gone when they had the item or something like that. So it goes both ways. We need to we need to not just, you know, elevate the routine has been being the savior because it's sometimes it's a burden. And

Rachel Richards: 21:18

I'm glad you mentioned that, because in the podcasts I listened to with Angela Duckworth, she was talking about that. And she said the thing about the routines that really work are that they are regular, but they're flexible, flexible, they need to be able to flex because life isn't, isn't regular things constantly will happen that will throw you off balance. And if

Susie Asli: 21:38

we have a tendency to control or have anxious thoughts, and we're not in control, they can really quickly flip the

Rachel Richards: 21:44

other way. Yeah, no, absolutely. So what I did was I looked there was a a while there's a website called Zapier, I didn't and they did a review of apps for making routines. Because I thought, How do I do like, I'm really bad at these routines, because I tried to put some in place and I've tried to have it stuck. And then I still come to the end of the day and go oh, I didn't do that. And in Zapier, they mentioned the streaks app. And so I downloaded this app, because I thought you know what, I'm going to try it for the podcast and see what I think and this and he said, Trust me, I've done all these different apps, this is the best one. And the reason the streaks app was, I think is actually he's right. And I really like it is because it is flexible, and it's created by you. So what you do is you say, I need to do these things every day. So I need to walk the dogs every day, I need to brush my teeth every day I need I want to go to bed at this time every day. So I and what I've done is so full, the moments when I need to study, I create half an hour segments. So there are four of them in one day. And then I have 20 minutes of horrible admin, that's another. So there are lots of things that I put in that have to happen pretty much every day. Yeah. And when you do them, you press the button, and you get this satisfying thing. And, and but it's really interesting, because what happens is, it's freed up my brain. Yeah, it's freed up my brain because I wake up in the morning. And the first thing I can do is look at rather than thinking, Oh, I'm gonna go downstairs and get my coffee and now decide what I'm going to do. I look at my app and go five sun salutations. Done. Yeah. Easy. Oh, does it Oh, and I can go and brush my teeth. So that's that. And that gets you on the tick, tick roll. Not at all, because you can pick which ones you're going to do. And then you can and it frees up so much time because I've suddenly got all these things that I have to do every I know, I've got to do them every day. I procrastinate. But I procrastinate. Because my brain is full of all the stuff. Oh, yeah, I know, I've got stuff to do. And then you suddenly go, oh, I actually have quite a lot of time.

Susie Asli: 23:52

That makes a lot of sense. Because it's the it's the brain the mind capacity, isn't it that making all those decisions? We don't realize how much energy is exhausted.

Rachel Richards: 23:59

We remove it. Yes. And that's what has happened. For me. It's that's what I mean by revolutionary. It's actually I hadn't realized how much of my mental capacity was being taken up with thinking all I need to do and I should do. Oh, and I'll put that, you know, push that down. Now my daughter has done something slightly slightly different because she uses. She uses Google documents every day. And she's created a Google document because that's the kind of person she is where she's got her routine, daily things she has to do. She takes them as she goes along. And then then she just deletes the things for the next day. And then she's got she she continues with the other things that are sort of different that day.

Susie Asli: 24:38

So does she write them the night before? Or does she do the day?

Rachel Richards: 24:41

She has a routine stuff? It's always there. She has a routine stuff that's always there. But as the as the jobs come in, she just writes them in them in Yeah. So because of course she's at school she has so she will be set things that she's got to do and tasks. And she'll just put them into that one Google document and then she can keep coming back to that. And I know because I work well with to do lists. But I don't like I find them really sort of, oh, I don't like to be told by myself what I'm supposed to be doing. I find it really annoying and ice to tick them off, isn't it? Yes. And so that's the other thing. So, if you if you read atomic habits, one of the things he talks about is it needs to be you need to have a positive spin to it because people will tend to do positive things. They don't like to do the negative thing. So coming back to this lady who's got her kids who don't want to go to bed? Because they're on their computers. Part of that, is that this they're stagnant. They want a computer I don't know what they're doing on the computer. So they're playing games or they're what have you know, so they it's shifting from that doing something different a different activity that doesn't look appealing. Yeah. So first of all, the discussion needs to be as a family we need to sit down and work out what a routine is going to be like for our family. Yeah, what

Susie Asli: 25:47

are the non negotiables? What are them one category on and where where do we need to nudge the time to be there earlier, etc. Yes,

Rachel Richards: 25:54

so let's be a family who goes okay, we've gone a bit off off track here. Let's get back to this and be together on this. This is who we are as a family. And then secondly, and I can't tell you how to do that because each family is different because you have a different rhythm but really this is worth doing sit and brainstorm it with the kids.

Susie Asli: 26:12

Yeah, you can ask I've done it with mine. Like how many hours do you think you need? How many hours do you need to feel fresh in the morning? 55 Okay, we don't have to recover either. Yeah, but you know, just and then that also gets them to start to listen okay, well how much sleep do I need? So it's not just me telling them we don't always do it but you know, it's really it's really worthwhile

Rachel Richards: 26:34

and and you can reinforce a you talk about when they don't get enough sleep you can notice it and you can just say you seem really snappy today you okay, maybe you didn't get enough sleep just remind Train the Trainer happens and I have but it's but then the ideal is a firm routine, loosely held Yeah, like that. So so so first of all, map it out what is our family routine ritual? Who are we? And then what you need is you need to actually work out something where they it shifts them from A to be with it without it being painful. So can we in between, they come off their computers, you then have a nice thing that you do together as a family or that people do before they have to do the next thing. Yeah, right. Or is there a night? Yes, yes. Is there something that's enjoyable? That's not being on a computer? Yeah. Because the otherwise they're not going to want to move? No. And there needs to be a buffer I think what do you think that's a great idea. I'm

Susie Asli: 27:33

just sitting here wondering what that buffer could be. Yeah.

Rachel Richards: 27:36

Well, again, they need it she can talk to them like what are the body the other things that are rewarding and and also the whole problem with the bedtime is what we need to do is make a ritual that's really easy to follow. So I know now when I'm going to go to bed I just go straight upstairs and I'll put my face my cleanser on brush my teeth and you know, there's there's a very split and I'll make sure I've got water with me. And I'll make sure I've got a very specific thing going on because because there's another one like the you can use which is this man mentioned where he was talking about study and he said, every time you sit down to study switch your study lamp on switch the lamp on start studying as soon as you start losing track or you you're not studying switch the lamp off, get up. And he said if you do that your brain will start to associate that lamp. Yeah, with concentrating. Yeah, so there are ways in which we can build these into our lives. Yeah, so by blocking isn't it and so there are ways in which we can do this which will actually make that whole bedtime routine much more simple. So I think that's the other thing is like

Susie Asli: 28:40

and under just the reminder that we can't you know, they are teenagers as well you know, as much as I'd love to sometimes just go right bedtime now. And when they were five, we you know, that's not really how we were you can do that of course and I'm sure there's people that do but for me that doesn't feel like the right thing to be doing. So it isn't more of a discussion and a negotiate. And a holding space for it. You know, like I often hold up a mirror and I'll go I see this is what I'm seeing as your parent you are struggling to get up in the morning I think you're going to bed too late. I think you need to be in bed by this time. What do you think and how can I help you get that into place? What can I do so that you are in bed and and usually if you approach it that way they go Yeah,

Rachel Richards: 29:28

well yeah, I

Susie Asli: 29:28

feel a bit rubbish actually. I'm really tired. Yeah, I'm doing this at bedtime. And you know, that is a for me that works better.

Rachel Richards: 29:36

I completely agree. And that's a level of respect. Because if they feel that you're actually offering them respect and you're not ordering them around, I mean, some kids are. I've got one that's much more sensitive to being told that she doesn't like it at all. If she gets any sensor that she has been told anything then she will rebel. So it is all about finding a way of helping them help themselves.

Susie Asli: 29:57

What can I do to help you be fresher in them? Want to Yes, yes,

Rachel Richards: 30:01

but definitely no empty threats as soon as you threatened something and then you don't follow through with it, then it just ends up being a pointless exercise. And they Yeah, then they'll never do anything. So yeah, definitely don't use that. Just use the sitting down talking through. And that's as good as again, also, there's

Susie Asli: 30:18

the idea of sometimes of the, you know, allowing them to feel tired sometimes it can work doesn't always. But the idea that, you know, actually, you might, you might miss the train, you might, you might feel really bad tomorrow, because you have chosen to go to bed too late. Yes. How do you want that to be different? Tomorrow is better learning from being given a time? rigidly?

Rachel Richards: 30:42

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And letting them feel that is actually a very valuable experience. But having conversations with them, you sort of have to explain to them the mechanics of sleep and why it's so important and all that stuff. But once they understand that, they will just do it.

Susie Asli: 30:58

Keep doing it. So it's a constant nudge and negotiate on. It's not like, oh, wow, and I've seen the light. Yeah, not in my house anyway. No, no, but the

Rachel Richards: 31:05

routine is the thing that rescues you. Yeah, because you can't keep nagging them. You can't be doing this is not a happy environment, right? So set up the routine, so that you can prompt and then if it's not working, you go back and say, Well, so what was it about the routine? It's not quite right. And it's okay, if they fail. They try again, how

Susie Asli: 31:22

can I help you with this, rather than you will do this? Yes. Yeah. What's the name of the app that you're using? My

Rachel Richards: 31:26

app is called streaks if the people who own streaks want to sponsor? Yeah, it's I actually I really like it. I think it's great. And it's really, really helping me and I have, like I said, my brain feels much emptier.

Susie Asli: 31:45

That's the bit that really resonates. Because I know when I do a meal plan for the week, you know, first of all issues. Now, when I do that, and I get I have all the ingredients and I know what we're eating I you know, I have so much more headspace at a certain time every day. It's really useful.

Rachel Richards: 31:59

That's one of my things on my streaks. I actually created one that says, plan the meals for the week. And it also another one that says do the groceries and do it and and I know that once I've checked that off, it's done. It's

Susie Asli: 32:12

a bore doing it because it really gives you more space. And I'm sure that applies to all the other things that resonate decluttering

Rachel Richards: 32:18

your brain Declutter. Yes, yes. Okay, well, I think that's it for now. If you found this useful, please share it with somebody else you can let us know if you anything resonated with you at teenagers untangled@gmail.com Or go to the website which is www.teenagersuntangled.com dot com. And Suzie, where can we reach you apart from all the social media? Main

Susie Asli: 32:43

mainly on Well, I do one at a time really. And, but you can find all of that on my website, which is www dot a mindful hyphen. life.co.uk. Brilliant. Okay.

Rachel Richards: 32:57

I hope you have a good sleep tonight.

Susie Asli: 32:59

Thank you. You too. That's it for now. Bye bye. Bye bye for now.