Missing out can cause visceral pain; particularly for teenagers, but why is it so awful and can anything be done to help them with it?
This episode was inspired by a parent whose daughter is at an expensive private school, but the family are finally having to accept that they can't afford it and will have to withdraw her. We love our, kids and want the best for them, but why choose something that's a massive stretch for us? What is 'the best' and where do we get our ideas from?
I would argue that FOMO is at the root of the decision to put her there, and even the daughter's request a Hermes handbag, rather than a present more suitable for a young girl.
In this episode we talk about where our desires come from and why our social environment can have such an impact. We discuss why figuring out, and staying anchored to, our own values whilst getting our kids to find something that really matters to them, is at the heart of protecting us from the pain of FOMO.
Neither of us has medical training so please seek the advice of a specialist if you're not coping.
Please hit the follow button if you like our podcast, and share it with anyone who might benefit. You can review us on Apple podcasts by going to the show page, scrolling down to the bottom where you can click on a star then you can leave your message.
Missing out can cause visceral pain; particularly for teenagers, but why is it so awful and can anything be done to help them with it?
This episode was inspired by a parent whose daughter is at an expensive private school, but the family are finally having to accept that they can't afford it and will have to withdraw her. We love our, kids and want the best for them, but why choose something that's a massive stretch for us? What is 'the best' and where do we get our ideas from?
I would argue that FOMO is at the root of the decision to put her there, and even the daughter's request a Hermes handbag, rather than a present more suitable for a young girl.
In this episode we talk about where our desires come from and why our social environment can have such an impact. We discuss why figuring out, and staying anchored to, our own values whilst getting our kids to find something that really matters to them, is at the heart of protecting us from the pain of FOMO.
Neither of us has medical training so please seek the advice of a specialist if you're not coping.
Please hit the follow button if you like our podcast, and share it with anyone who might benefit. You can review us on Apple podcasts by going to the show page, scrolling down to the bottom where you can click on a star then you can leave your message.
Susie is available for a free 15 minute consultation, and has a great blog: www.amindful-life.co.uk
Rachel Richards:
Hello and welcome to teenagers untangled the audio hug for parents going through the teenage years I'm Rachel Richards parenting coach journalist's mother of two teenagers, and two bonus daughters. Hi, there.
Susie Asli:
I'm Susie Asli. Mindfulness coach, mindful therapist and musician and mother of three teenagers. Two of them are twins. Now,
Rachel Richards:
Susie, we've all experienced FOMO. Now, what how would you describe the feeling? Can you think?
Susie Asli:
That's a good question. Awful. It's horrible. It's like a, it can be kind of like a gut wrenching. Oh, yeah. Not Yeah. Yes.
Rachel Richards:
So it's kind of jealousy and loneliness isolate. It can be all sorts of things, aren't it? And been left out? Yes. And hating your life in that sort of moment of feeling it?
Susie Asli:
Shame? Yes. Because you feel like you're not how you weren't good enough to be part of this. Whatever it was. Yeah, it's hard.
Rachel Richards:
Yes. And you just feel like you missed out on something significantly important. And also did sort of other people are living lives that are more fun and better. Right. So my daughter experience Securitas former FOMO. Recently, which I'll come on to later, and I'll explain how I dealt with it. But it's the same sort of thing that teens complain of most often when they're begging for a phone. Right? That kind of I'm missing out. Yes. So it comes up a lot. And some of it's more. So that's the reality of missing out if they haven't got a phone. But is it always something that we should be paying attention to? And how do we manage it? Yeah, I don't know that I have answers. But I can talk about any discussion. Yeah, it's a very real pressure, isn't it? We had a very painful email from the loveliest lady who says her daughter who's one of three works super hard age 11. And her parents were delighted. So they applied for her to go to what they call a posh school. But the thing is, they can't actually afford it. And two years on, she stopped, the girl stopped working. She wants a Hermes bag and face products and is saying she wants to marry a rich man. And they're just going to have to pull their daughter out because they can't afford it. And And also, it's not really the values that she's exhibiting now aren't quite what they want. As parents, we want to get send our kids to the best schools, but they need an education. That's the need, but the desire is to send them to like what's perceived as the best school. Well, what is that? So? Yeah,
Susie Asli:
but you can also have FOMO for you know, if you're a teenager and you want to be doing something reckless and crazy, you can miss you know, the FOMO is the feeling isn't it's appealing, actual missing out? On the context? Yeah,
Rachel Richards:
absolutely. So before we go into that in more detail, what do you have for us as a nugget this week? Well,
Susie Asli:
my nugget is a, I have two who've just left their school. So they're going to Sixth Form College in September. They still got their GCSEs starting this week, EA public exams. It's fun, isn't it? But they've had their final day of school on Friday. And it just made me think of, I mean, I think I think we do this anyway. But it was a really nice reminder of celebrating our kids. Yeah, I mean, they didn't have anything that parents are invited to or anything, but they celebrated each other like they, they they, they both made shirts and got them signed, and they came home really excited. And like Look who signed it. And this is really lovely. And this, this idea of celebrating our kids for who they are not what they do, but who they are critical. Just it just seemed to be really a theme. It was really beautiful. And and just a good reminder of celebrating their amazing. You don't have to do anything to be amazing. They just are amazing, but and they celebrate each other as well. They you know, they care about these exams in that respect with each other. They just like each other. It's just really
Rachel Richards:
beautiful. I love that. And it's funny you mentioned GCSEs because that's actually what mine's about. But mine's a curious one, because two things. Two comments were made this week by my two separate daughters. One of them did her GCSEs last year and she said to me, I still miss doing GCSEs Wow. And she said that because she really enjoyed the breadth of study. And you know, she's narrowed down yeah, she absolutely loves her subjects. But she does. It was hard for her. And she did have the choice she could have done the International Baccalaureate. Yeah, she decided not to and she's glad she didn't. But I'm just putting that in that that's a curious viewpoint. You don't hear that ever heard that before? That the other one who's doing them now and is finding it hard because it is hard. actually said to me. You know, I've I actually I'm now enjoying it. I'm enjoying the need to sit down and really focus I feel better about myself. I like that structure. And I want to continue studying over summer rather than just let it off because I've I've realized I really enjoy this. Oh now weird is that what's wrong with these children?
Susie Asli:
That's amazing. Do you know one of my kids is they're very different approaching their exams. But he did mention that, you know, he's he's really got his head down, which is amazing and not in a in a stressful way, but just, you know, putting in a few shifts here and there. And he, he said he's enjoying it, he's enjoying learning. And he feels that if he hadn't got to do exams, he wouldn't really get to the bottom of these subjects. And some of them he would be fine with doing not doing that. But for some of them, he kind of sees the value in it, and you had to correct me on a few things. Have you? No, no, actually, Mom, this is okay. I don't mind it. If he doesn't mind. Yes, well, but you know, so it's a double double edged sword.
Rachel Richards:
But this is a really important point, because I do agree with everybody who complains about the GCSEs and the way that they're structured. But here's the thing. So Angela Duckworth who is renowned for her TED talk on grit. Actually, she's a professor, and she decided to introduce to her course, a section where they were either pass or fail, they weren't graded. And her supervisor said, that's a really terrible idea. But she did it anyway, because she wanted them to have intrinsic motivation. Guess what happened? They didn't really work. And then she thought, ah, is because they focused on the other courses where they were being graded. So they, you know, they weren't actually paying attention to this course. But then she found a study that were that had been done where all the courses didn't have grading, and they really didn't work. Interesting. Interesting. So she said, she said it made her realize that we think intrinsic motivation will work. But actually, and my daughter straightaway went, Well, that was a stupid idea. Interesting, hey, and I'm grateful. I'm grateful that I was forced into a corner and made to work in order to pass exam no one made me but I knew that if I didn't pass these exams, it just my life would be different. So how's
Susie Asli:
the work, though, doesn't it? I mean, I don't completely agree with that. But maybe that's a discussion for
Rachel Richards:
another day. It's a different it's a different discussion. And it's about you know, obviously the nature of exams, whether it's healthy, all those things, but I but I'm just putting a different slant on it. Because for me, it's different
Susie Asli:
my son's made me think, but I do think there is a natural hunger to learn. But how do we channel that that's a topic for another day. So review,
Rachel Richards:
you have a review.
Susie Asli:
I do. This is from Gemma. I wish I had discovered you before my child turned teenager. I was not prepared for what was coming. And I'm upset that with hindsight, I mismanaged some early situations at the time, it's incredibly helpful to hear that they need us as a bucket to pour all their emotions into a not necessarily to fix things. I also love the analogy of teens being in lifeboats at sea while we are on the shore, watching and available to help if they need us. I find the episodes calming and supportive. Even though many of the hurdles have not arisen. It's nice to know that there is somewhere to go for research and tips should they arise. Well done for creating this hug for parents like me that didn't know they needed one. Oh, what a beautiful, lovely.
Rachel Richards:
I love these reviews. And I love it when you give us detail for the things that really land. But also Gemma, I'm still mismanaging things.
Susie Asli:
Every single day. I mentioned
Rachel Richards:
that on social media and everyone was going no, no, we all are so so give yourself a break. I it's nice to know that you've got some support and that you're not alone. But we will. It's hard.
Susie Asli:
And I definitely forget to put the you know, the dingey in the lifeboat and all that stuff some days. So yeah.
Rachel Richards:
Give yourself right. So coming back to FOMO. We know when we think we could be missing out on information events, experiences or life decisions that this can happen this FOMO this emotional response to which can feel life threatening. Yeah, it can feel very big content.
Susie Asli:
Yeah, I think for our teens, it's generally or mainly probably social events. Yes. Not going to social events. Whereas maybe for us it's a bit more nuanced. I don't I don't know that I'm just spouting from my hip here. But I imagine it's more social things that they really get affected by is proper FOMO, isn't it? I want to be there and I haven't been invited.
Rachel Richards:
Yes. And it's not really, really ever about what we need is about what we desire, isn't it? And the French philosopher, Rene Girard is very helpful here. He says, desire is always for something we feel we lack. Yeah. And it doesn't come from inside us. Our desires are mimetic so we copy the people around us and to quote him he says man is a creature who does not know what to desire. He turns to others in order to make up his mind. We desire what others desire because we imitate their desires. Interesting take
Susie Asli:
interesting I'm just mulling that one over. I mean, I guess that applies to more concrete stuff on it and status but like inner peace that's an inside job surely. And a desire for that would be Yeah, inside. I don't know. Money. Yeah,
Rachel Richards:
I think what his point is that human beings are we we copy so much even things like accent if you spend a lot of time with somebody you're start to blend your accent with it as we we mimic each other around us. And we look around us social cues for what's important, and mostly the people we imitated those we believe to be higher up the ladder. Yes, yeah, we
Susie Asli:
definitely do that. I'm just wondering if that's the only thing. Yeah, yeah.
Rachel Richards:
And the problem with this imitating somebody so looking and thinking, Oh, who's higher than us? I want to be a bit more like them. Yeah. Is that we often don't think about whether the ladder we're climbing is actually leaning on the wrong wall. Hmm.
Susie Asli:
Right. Yeah. Because we can desire somebody who like if we're stressing around like headless chickens, thinking, we need all this stuff and doing all this stuff. And we look across the water and see somebody who's very chilled out and has less and is having a much nicer time. We can definitely have FOMO for that as well. It doesn't always have to go back. Maybe? Yeah, maybe. So it depends on our values, doesn't it? We have to know what depends on
Rachel Richards:
your values. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I think with teenagers in particular, though, what happens is they go into school, it's very, very pronounced, I think, when they first go to senior school, because there's there there is the jostling for hierarchy. There is like who's the, you know, there'll be looking around to see who the strong people are. And there's a lot of desire to form an identity. And where do you get your id like, what how do you decide what your identity is? And that's how you end up with this uniform of everybody wearing the same thing? Because they want to all fit in that, you know, it's a very, I think it's most strong with, with, with teenagers, and I think it's because they're living in such close proximity to each other, because that's part of the other
Susie Asli:
thing. Yeah. That's why I kind of think it's mostly to do with their social identities and their social capital and fear, actual fear of actually missing out on something social work for us. It's a little bit different
Rachel Richards:
than it. Yeah, I think it is. And what's interesting with a shareholder does, he identified two types of, of this kind of desire and people we learn from, and he said, there's the, I call it the distant, and these are people who can affect our desires, but we can't affect them. So in other words, they're too far away from us. The barrier can be death, status, money, time, like history. So you're looking at historical figures, and you think, Oh, that was an amazing person, or whatever it is.
Susie Asli:
tinted glasses. Come on there. Yes, yeah. Yes. But I mean, if you
Rachel Richards:
think about people who I mean, I know a man who was so taken by the works of Winston Churchill, that it changed his life, yes. And he grew up in abject poverty, and then created an entire company around what he learned from Churchill, right, so so this is the thing that can really, really influenced us to do very, very positive things. But the difference with that is you're not directly competing with those people. So those models can be really positive, because they'll raise us up. They don't threaten our status.
Susie Asli:
And I guess that's inspiration, isn't it? And inspiration and FOMO aren't the same thing
Rachel Richards:
at the store. And we can still continue to question our values. Rather than just follow those things. The problem is the close people. And those people can be too close for comfort. So there could be your friends at school, your partner immediate family members, and your friends you hang out with people you work with. And you're you're brushing up against them on a daily basis. Now, hopefully, we don't constantly feel competitive. You know, that would that's a horrible state to be in any way. But for example, my husband said when we were first dating, he said I could never have actually dated somebody who was doing the same job as me. Because I I'm very competitive. Alright. And it wouldn't have worked.
Susie Asli:
No, we do have a thing called comparison itis. And I think most of us fall into that we're not super aware around it. And teenagers particularly it's comparison itis time Yes. 100
Rachel Richards:
plus. And I will come on to why that why I think it's so big for teenagers, apart from just this proximity. So there's, you know, the problem is there's no barrier to competition when they're when they're young, because you're all still kind of forming who you are. And what's interesting about this category, of course, is we can affect the other people as much as they can affect us. I mean, if they're higher up the ladder, they'll be less affected by what we do. But they're still affected, you know, if you're in a group. So for example, I didn't buy my kids, iPhones when they were young, partly because I didn't want them using phones. But also because I looked around me and I didn't want to be the person who put that into the social group. Yeah, because whoever speaks first is then going to have an impact on the entire group.
Susie Asli:
Yeah, I mean, we compare we all do it, don't we? The more the more grounded and accepting of ourselves we feel, the less we need to compare. And teenagers are finding out who they are. But there are still it's still exists, isn't it? You know, there are teenagers who are really clear on who they are they have, they know what their values are, they lose this kind of inner conflict. Since and they don't care what other people think maybe they do a little bit, but they're much less affected. Comparison itis really hits the people who don't know who they are. And there's no judgement here. We, I think I was like that as a teen, you know, I was really looking over my shoulder didn't really know who I was, Oh, they're doing that. I'll try and be like that. And I'll try and do that. Yeah. And, and my, I was trying to, you know, it's comparing all the time, which is a exhausting place to be.
Rachel Richards:
It's exhausting. It can create perpetual anxiety and re frustration. It really is hard work to live like that. And in fact, I've had my my girls say, oh, you know, it's exhausting when I'm in school, because I mean, less. So now, because they've really become much more formed as characters. But when they first started out, it's just absolutely exhausting having to try and be somebody because you're constantly looking around. And
Susie Asli:
the more they can feel that they're okay with who they are, which takes most of us a whole lifetime. The better and the less, they'll get FOMO. And the less Yeah, compare themselves.
Rachel Richards:
Yeah. And it's, it's that you've absolutely nailed that. And just before we move on to that particular thing that's underpinning all of this. Guess what? Marketing companies and the social media operations, they all know this. They know. So and they want us to be as close to a perpetual state of FOMO as possible. Why? Because it makes us constantly check back. And if we base up every example, I mean, even to even just the other day, I was looking at something and it was and they asked his questions. You go, Yeah, I'll answer that question. And then what they bought they, they're trying to loop you into something when you get to the end, and they'll say, you've got 10 minutes, and it's half price at the moment. You just think I piss off?
Susie Asli:
IKEA. I always feel really left out when I do them. Yeah, I used to I haven't seen them phrase, I don't really watch Italian. But IKEA. And with a Coca Cola, they do some really good like, big fun parties. Everyone's having such a great time. And you sit there going, Oh, well, I sit there going, Oh, I really want to be there. Or maybe if I get an Ikea sofa. Yeah.
Rachel Richards:
And then I'll feel like I important. And that's exactly what happens. Because it's the we clothe ourselves with these things that make us feel like we are then living that life. And that's what they're playing with. That's absolutely spot on. So I've even I was reading a marketing website, which was actively telling companies to create FOMO with user generated content. So it claimed that 85% of consumers find visual user generated content. So people, people that they recognize who are a bit like them, or that they like, using that thing and talking about how good that thing is, is is much more influential and brand photos.
Susie Asli:
Yeah, people are gonna buy real people's made, isn't it? Right. Right.
Rachel Richards:
People buy from people Yeah, that they like or who they like to be like, Yeah, wow. It's amazing, isn't it? Yes. And so we've you see people wearing things this way, influencers are so powerful, why they're so influential, because they just close enough. And there's appealing enough. And people are like, oh, and I remember my sister, once buying a dress from a castle, we used to have little Woods catalogs, and you you pour through them all these sheets of paper, and then you'd have to order them it would be weeks until they came and then the dress would come and it would look nothing like the woman in the photo. But you're kind of thinking, Oh, well, if I buy that, I mean, there's this kind of disconnect with what how it's gonna work for you. But we've all done it. Absolutely
Susie Asli:
still do it. Yes. suggest other stuff. So
Rachel Richards:
those are the negatives. And then there was a study on social media use by the University of Glasgow in Scotland, which examined the mental health consequences 467 high school aged students. And I'll just pause for a second, Jonathan Haidt, who wrote anxious generation, the book that's going around all the time now has extensive data on this. Yeah. It reports that teenagers significantly feel a societal pressure to constantly be available. And those constantly it's constantly incoming alerts create that FOMO. So it's not just, it's not just that they'll see things and think, Oh, I'm not at that party. They feel like if they go if they step away from their phone, or they don't, they're not available, something could be happening, that they miss. He missed the chat. They missed the chat. And then they didn't get invited to somewhere and then there's suddenly Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
Susie Asli:
it's and you're right. It's not just about the invitations. It's the actual chat and the banter and all of that, and they want to be part of all of it. Yes.
Rachel Richards:
So so it actually creates this constant sense of anxiety about stepping away from the device so that you can actually go and do something useful with your life, which is really unfortunate. We don't want our kids feeling that none of us do
Susie Asli:
now. I'm just thinking I was twins. One of mine is quite boundaried. On that and goes You don't have to answer. Yes, it's interesting. Yes.
Rachel Richards:
And we, we often have conversations because I'm constantly saying to the kids, you don't have to answer straight away. They say, if you left someone on red, it's really so they're all constantly swiping to Sideswipe to see whether they liked the message and whether they got they want to answer it right then and I show If I showed them look, I opened my friends message two days later, I message them back. And my friends know that it's not that I didn't care. It said, I'm busy. And actually, I'd like to compose a proper answer, unless it's a bit of banter. But that, you know, I'm not a cultural thing, literally very much. So, generation functions differently
Unknown:
we have, yes. And
Rachel Richards:
for us, you know, we can, we can access things, you know, in terms of the sort of FOMO and missing out on great holidays, or parties or whatever, quite often we'll be accessing them. At a time when we, we are vulnerable. So you're tired, you've come home from a long day of work, you log on social media, and you see someone else has been having a wonderful holiday, and you're working all the hours God sends and your kids are misbehaving. Yeah. And that's,
Susie Asli:
that sucks. That sucks. I know, my kids have had have had FOMO when they have been, you know, quite a loss of their holidays they've spent going to visit their dad. And then that's been quite challenging for them that they've missed stuff. And they don't like missing stuff, of course. And that is real FOMO. But you know, they once I think once you, you do it, once you realize you don't die. Yes. And
Rachel Richards:
then I love it. I
Susie Asli:
think it's still hard some stuff. It depends on the event, doesn't it? Nobody likes missing the big party of the year, do they?
Rachel Richards:
But you don't know whether it's going to be that big party.
Susie Asli:
Do you think it's going to be big as usually quite lame? Yeah, but ya know, they've definitely experienced that. And they've verbalized it actually.
Rachel Richards:
Yeah, yeah. But I, but I agree with you at that. And I think it's something I've done for myself. And I tried to do with my kids where I say, so, you know, like with my daughter when I put her phone in the lockbox so that she couldn't access it, and it also blocked all the signals. You know, and then at the end of the day, I say, so have a look. What have you missed? Nothing, actually. And I think that's a really lovely way of reinforcing that. Actually, you don't you don't need to panic and you don't need to be on all the time. And my daughter recently, yesterday said the most amazing thing where she said, Mommy, I've realized that being mature is actually about not just about creating boundaries from other people is boundaries within yourself. And she had been doing that answering messages as soon as they came through. And she realized that it was just delaying. It was interrupting her thought patterns and delaying her work.
Susie Asli:
Amazing. Yeah.
Rachel Richards:
Amazing. 4050 rolls.
Susie Asli:
Brilliant. Yeah.
Rachel Richards:
So coming back to this lovely listener and her daughter asking for Hermes bag, for example. I mean, she that she she deserves a bit of compassion because she is being influenced by the girls around her and she's being made to feel like this is what's important because she's in an environment where they you know, the people who are seem to be important. Value these things, and they feel for her. And the lyrics of Olivia Rodriguez, do you listen to her at all? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do. Jealousy, jealousy. I kind of want to throw my phone across the room because all I see a girl's too good to be true with paper, white teeth and perfect bodies wish I didn't care. I know their beauty is not my lack. But it feels that I it feels like that weight is on my back. And I can't let it go. It's that last bit. I can't let it go. Yeah,
Susie Asli:
I was hoping you're gonna sing that. Actually.
Rachel Richards:
I think the rest of the listeners are probably grateful, but I didn't. Have you heard me sing? I used to be able to sing. I've got a cricket voice.
Susie Asli:
Yeah, that's a really good lyric. So I mean, they're really great.
Rachel Richards:
Yeah, well, they really summing up how these girls and boys because it will happen differently. But it's the same thing.
Susie Asli:
And it really pinpoints doesn't it that we can know something we can be super aware of it? We know that it's not real. We know all of that. And yet it still affects us? Yes.
Rachel Richards:
So I think the first stage like you said, is knowing ourselves and finding value in things that matter to us. And so we as parents can help our kids with this and ourselves. So it's the digital awareness, understanding how we're being manipulated. And this the use of FOMO is really extreme. Now, we're both on social media and in terms of products being shifted, we have to be aware of this and we have to remind ourselves regularly that that's one of the things it's pushing us to do behave the way we're behaving
Susie Asli:
pushing social media as well. Yeah, absolutely. hallway, it's it's works that they want you to get on the chat. Yes. And
Rachel Richards:
they're tapping into something that's primordial that we all fear, okay. And learning to identify that this is something we can do for our kids. So when we notice that they are, we need to notice the things they do well and we need to to notice the things that make them happy and really emphasize those they say like I noticed that that really made you happy when it's not a part audax and we've done this we when we were talking about presence, and you know, the kids who seemed like they really, they didn't care about the gifts that they got. And they're, they're being entitled and what what really the research says is that it's its activities and doing things that bring joy, and satisfaction. So I think when they're younger, it's harder to be able to do that just because they don't know who they are. And they don't. So I remember talking to a dad, about his daughters, and I said, What have you been doing so well with him because they were just wonderful girls. And he said, they need a sport. They need a sport give you give you give your teenagers something, a sport or a thing. That's their thing. Because if they find a thing, then that becomes a focus and it stops them from getting too hung up on everything else. So I liked that point.
Susie Asli:
Great advice. But now I'm very hard to do lots of pizza, panicking now that their kids don't have a thing.
Rachel Richards:
My my daughters do, they have a thing. They don't really have a thing. But what I have done slowly over the years is tried to keep emphasizing you so with with one of them, I said, You need to find something you can practice 20 minutes a day, just anything, I don't care what it is, I'm not picking it for you. But you need to find something you'll do 20 minutes a day, because that's the only way you'll be good at anything and you'll get genuine joy. So pick, she picked the guitar. Okay. And the other one I don't need to do that with because she just she's found Greek. You know, she's fascinated by great ancient Greek as you do, as you do, is absolutely obsessed.
Susie Asli:
My kids are not in Greek.
Rachel Richards:
Actually, just you know, let's just read last the discussion completely. Really interesting thing. And this is good for all of us parents is we our kids on tasks, we know that and they start to find things that interest them. And I've never really understood anything much about Greek and Latin Roman Empire. And because she's interested in classics, I bought a book that's written by a man called Oliver Taplin, who is one of the Dons that maudlin College, and it was written in 1990. It was to do with a channel four series to do with the ancient Greeks. And I've been reading it myself, because it's actually quite accessible. Wow, it's so interesting, and I'm learning and then she'll say something to me. And it's it what's happening is it's it's opening my entire understanding of the difference. So the Greeks were very, if they entertain people, they would deliver tragedies. And that would be it would sort of philosophical thoughts on you know, the human condition. The Romans, would we do that
Susie Asli:
every dinner time?
Rachel Richards:
People tragedies. The Romans would put people in an amphitheater and have them killed by animals, or vice versa, right? Very different attitude towards what's entertainment and how we live. Right. But I didn't know that. So you know, it's my point is, when you have kids, if you kind of encourage them to find their thing they can you can go along in the way you can go with oh, look at what I'm learning now you can
Susie Asli:
do even when it's something that is a bit, not something you're interested in my my one of my kids loves rap music. And there's loads of I heard a lot of rap music, and it would never have been my go to still isn't my go to but I've heard quite a lot. I quite like it. And there's some there's a there's something going on at the moment. I'm not going to mention names because I get them all wrong. And then I'll be shocked.
Rachel Richards:
Is it that Drake first? Yeah, yeah. So it's like a big
Susie Asli:
deal. And that's now in the news. Like, it wasn't before it was build up for ages. And we were talking about it and then suddenly wasn't the BBC News. And I like I sent that link, because, look, it's in the news. And I know all about and I know, you're in school, and you didn't hear that. But it's really fun and interesting. And he thinks I'm a bit weird for doing that. But But appreciate it. It's fun. It's amazing.
Rachel Richards:
I my friend did that with her son. And she said, oh, boy, let me listen to some I started listening to some. And he's really cool. He's sucking his teeth, you know, doing the rap stuff. And she said, Oh, you like poetry, darling.
Susie Asli:
Some of the words some of the words are amazing. Yeah, really? Yeah. Yeah.
Rachel Richards:
So coming back to this whole FOMO thing. And I mentioned earlier about how we went a bit off topic, off topic, and it's fine. It's fine. I'm sure. You know, people are bored. They've switched off now by now anyway. And I just coming back to this what I said earlier on about my daughter and how she experienced to FOMO. Yeah, which was weirdly, she and I were talking about the World Health Organization report that found British children drink more alcohol than youngsters in any other country, which is pretty shocking. But she read a report in The Times by she was a kind of a think piece in The Times by mother who said, you know, when I was a young teenager, and we're talking young, not not 18 I used to go out and get drunk with my mates in the field. It was really naughty. And it was a rite of passage and we had so much fun and I want that for my daughters and And she said to me, you know, I feel like I've missed out. I feel like maybe I've missed something really big and important and special. And I said, Gosh, that's really interesting. But when I, what was really interesting, is it and it made me feel really hurt in a way that maybe I'd I don't know, what can what did I feel like? I just didn't understand why she felt that that was missing out. But I did understand. Okay, so I then started on picking it because I thought the only way I can deal with this emotion that I'm experiencing is to start, like literally just pulling it apart. And I said to her, the thing is Darling, I never actually said you can't go, I've discouraged you from drinking, because I and I, because I've informed you on all the issues with it when you're young. And the truth is a lot of goals, if they did go out and get drunk, wouldn't have had that experience. So what she's done is she's romanticized something, that actually really is a toxic thing. And they it's not safe, particularly when you're young. And so if you were doing it in my own home, that would be different. If you were out in some park somewhere, I would just would not think that was a particularly sensible thing to do. So we started pulling it apart. And then I said, Actually, you don't even like going out? I don't know. Actually, I know
Susie Asli:
I don't. So FOMO really is that's really interesting. FOMO really is a kind of a fantasy, isn't it? Yes. It's Yes. It's, you know, imagining that it's going to be amazing. If only I could be there have this do this. It's a fantasy that it's it's romanticized. And it can also work in hindsight, can't it you can have, you know, I remember going into school on the Monday morning and kids had been doing all sorts of exciting things at the weekend, and I hadn't been there. There's a sort of a FOMO with hindsight as well isn't that that's again, it's fantasy, because I wasn't there. And it sounds all amazing. But I'm sure as you say, some of the kids, they're probably having a horrible time. And
Rachel Richards:
that's sort of what that's what we can do as parents as well is you can help your kid rather than just because it feels like a bit of a gut punch. You know, you think, oh god, I've what I've done, I've ruined my chance, childhood, whatever. And actually, if you start on picking it, and you realize that that that woman has done something quite irresponsible, what she's done is she said, I want the same for my kids. And it's been in a national newspaper. And now my daughter's looked at it and gone. Oh, well, that's actually it's an it's had an impact on everybody else. Because this is a woman who's elevated to the status of writing in a national newspaper about something. And it's changed the narrative. Right? Yeah. So that's my point. My point is, you know, she's looked up to that and gone oh, well, here's something really special that I've missed out on. Whereas she never thought that before. No,
Susie Asli:
and that's where we come back to values, isn't it? And it's important to you, and then of course, they change and shift but you know, what is important to you?
Rachel Richards:
Yes. And keep stressing those keep looking at values keep talking about but those are the there's the foundation, that's the anchor.
Susie Asli:
So also it's okay to have FOMO maybe it's just a feeling, isn't it? Yes, the more path is being with it and unpacking it and picking it what is it and allowing it to pass rather than trying to never have FOMO or have it for them or, you know, make it taboo somehow that's not
Rachel Richards:
100% and life isn't fair. So the truth is you're going to miss out with this as this is how and actually our ability to cope with that is also part of the whole process of growing up I
Susie Asli:
love that that's really important because we're not going to be invited to all the parties no not going to have everything and nobody's inviting
Rachel Richards:
me to Pilates
Susie Asli:
and sitting in the in the suckiness of that isn't really important life skill that Yeah,
Rachel Richards:
exactly. So on that note, I think that's it
Susie Asli:
wow. I might for the rest of the episode
Rachel Richards:
well actually, the truth is I am going out to a party tonight which is a strange thing on a Tuesday night. This this we're recording this on a Tuesday. Anyway, if you enjoyed it don't
Susie Asli:
turn everything I have I have I have a spray rare
Rachel Richards:
that's it if you enjoyed the episode, please tell at least one other person and if you gained anything from it, please leave us a review because it makes such a difference both to us and to the ability of other parents to find our podcast. You can find me on www.teenagersuntangled.com and email at teenagers untangled@gmail.com Suzy is super busy so we're super lucky to have her popping in lucky that's true that's true. It's really hard to nail her down and get her in here so and your we can reach her how can we reach season WWW
Susie Asli:
dot a mindful hyphen Life dot code at UK and all my links in there, but hurry
Rachel Richards:
because she won't be around for that much longer could be missing out. That's it for now. Bye bye bye for now.
