90: Exams, depression, work, national service, Sigma and Bigorexia, we cover it all in our May chat

I scan the newspapers daily to keep an eye on what's going on that might be relevant to us parents. I usually share it on my Instagram and Facebook feeds, but it's also good to sit down with another, equally interested but unpolitical, parent, to simply chat about the state of the world that our kids are growing up in. 

None of it is scientific, or based on deep fact, but sometimes it's nice to chew the cud and hear other parents talking freely about the issues that might affect our own parenting and kids.

I'd love to hear if there are any topics that particularly interest you, or if you agree/disagre with any of our views. Email Rachel @teenagersuntangled@gmail.com and you can sign up for my newsletter on the website at www.teenagersuntangled.com.

Quote:
Viktor Frankl: 'When a person can't find a deep sense of pupose he distracts himself with pleasure.'

Sources:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13454193/Mel-Stride-blames-pornography-video-games-alarming-surge-jobless-young-men.html#:~:text=Mel%20Stride%20said%20that%20easy,of%20economic%20inactivity%20across%20Britain.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/china-president-xi-high-school-pupils-military-training-gkgwmj2q7
https://news.sky.com/story/which-countries-have-national-service-and-how-does-it-work-elsewhere-13143261
@Mrpink on Twitter
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/health-wellness/2024/03/01/muscle-dysmorphia-bigorexia-are-severe-problems-thanks-to-tiktok/72792612007/

Transcript

Rachel Richards: 0:03

Hello, and welcome to teenagers untangled the audio hub for parents going through the teenage years. I'm Rachel Richards, journalist, parenting coach, mother of two teenagers and two bonus daughters.

Susie Asli: 0:13

Hi there. I'm Susie, Asli mindfulness coach, mindful therapist, musician, a mother of three teenagers, two of them.

Rachel Richards: 0:21

Let's face it, there's been so much in the news that impacts on being a parent, that I thought it might be a good time to have a chat. What do you think? We'll start with our own little nugget? Yeah. What have you got for us

Susie Asli: 0:34

this time? Well, it's kind of a generic thing. It's just my two are doing my twins are doing public exams at the moment, and just watching how they approach them. And also I've had, I've had one who's been through to lots of public exams. And and it's the idea that yes, we I'm nudging them and helping them and supporting them and holding space for them. And one of them loves being tested or doesn't love, they would like me to test them. And so we've spent a long time testing and finds that really helpful. The other one doesn't only bits, and has, you know, they're just very different in their approaches. And I think my point is, and very different from their brother was that, you know, we can do a lot we can we can, we can really do a lot. And they're really different in their approaches. Like, I think we need to remember that. It's not all us. And

Rachel Richards: 1:21

I think I think that's such an important point. Because likewise, yeah, and I and if you have one child, or this is your first child, and you look over the fence at someone else, and you think, Wait, they're doing this with their child, my child won't accept that, or I'm not doing it right. It's not that. Yeah.

Susie Asli: 1:39

And then we go, Oh, I'm doing it wrong, or I haven't done enough, or I've done too much or something. And it's probably coming from the kid. But we know we It's a dance, isn't it? It's like dipping in and out and trying different things. But they are very different. And I have twins. It's super obvious because they're doing exactly the same at exactly the same moment. Yeah. And they're approaching it very different. Yeah.

Rachel Richards: 1:57

And that's really helpful for people listening. And I think same with mine. Mine's the one that's doing the GCSEs at the moment, does not want me helping. What I do is I scaffold all the revision time I make sure she's up. I make sure she's eating, I make sure that she does some exercise. And I keep the phone away. You know, I'm doing those things. But the rest of it, she doesn't want me to intervene. Fine. Yes. You know, you can only do what they want. Yeah, exactly. For me, my nugget is about one of my daughters, who told me the other day that she was feeling really depressed. And nothing she normally does was lifting her spirits, right. I wanted to mention this because I think depression is one of those things that parents worry about, yes. I empathize with her first of all, and said, Yeah, that sounds really hard. Yeah. But then we said, actually, that happens to me, sometimes much less now than when I was a teenager. And I think when we're teenagers, there are a lot of hormonal things going on that will impact the way you feel anyway, I then asked her about her sleep patterns. She wasn't getting enough sleep, I don't want to peg it to that. But I said, that's not going to help. It's much harder to regulate your emotions if you're not getting enough sleep. And she has been working very, very hard on her exam revision. And she also has a big event coming up, which was very exciting. So I think there's an we were talking about, which you mentioned a long time ago, the the window of regulation and that we can either be Yes, exactly. And you can be above where you get hyper and you get angry or you get overexcited. And then but you can also dip below it where your your body just goes, your mind goes no, I've had enough. Yeah, hyper and hypo hypo. And I said to her, I think you might, you've been in your head so much that you kind of dipped underneath where you are regulated, and you're just not able to pull yourself out of it with just the normal things. But I did say to her, she said that there was a tennis game that she could go to and to go to that when you leave your room. Stop thinking about anything else, focus on the sunshine, focus on the feeling of your body moving, and just let everything else go and just try and enjoy the match. And actually, it made all the difference. Yeah. And I think sometimes we're in our heads so much. And our poor teens are so much other either on social media in their heads, and that physicality can make a big difference. I'm not saying it's a quick fix for everybody, but I'm just saying that there can be so many moving parts. And just being able to unpick it. First of all makes them feel a lot better. And knowing that they're not broken, but also finding something physical. Yeah, that's why we do sports, right?

Susie Asli: 4:38

Absolutely. And it's still so often it's the little tweaks that actually make the biggest difference and you're really right with the hyper and hyper arousal because sometimes sometimes we go straight into hypo arousal, which is the one where we feel heavy and lethargic and it's hard to get out of that way. But sometimes if we're in hyper arousal, which is the stress response, or the most suppressed stress responses, but they're the hyper one, and we've done that for a long time. It's exhausting. Yeah, burnt out and then we drip dip into the exactly down. And, and something that is maybe difficult for a team to really have experienced yet because they're younger is that these things pass the normal. Like I think once we get to our ripe old age, like we've experienced feelings that you know, you have a dip, and you know, okay, this is feels a bit rubbish right now, but it will pass it will move. And that's something I practice with my mindfulness thing, nothing's lost forever. Whereas when you're experiencing it, when you're you know, you're a teenager, it's like, oh my god, I'm gonna feel like this forever. How do I get out of it?

Rachel Richards: 5:34

So true, so true. And it's so important to understand the cycles of life. Yeah. And the earlier that they can start being able to vocalize that, the easier it will become, I'm going to mention a review. It was this morning while driving my steps on bonus, unlike you lovely say, to one of his GCSE exams, we listened to the FOMO episode. We both enjoyed it very much. And it triggered a rich conversation between us. So thank you very much. He said he found the podcast super interesting. And we will be listening to more of them together. Haha. Wow. Yeah. And the best bit she said it made the podcast super relatable was the mention of the rap drama. Oh, yeah. between Drake and Kendrick. And she said she didn't even know about it. But her stepson Of course, knew and explained all of it to her. And she said, thank you, for me creating a special moment between us. Oh, that's so cool. But actually, I wanted to mention that because if you have listened to any of the episodes with your teenager, please let us know if you've landed well, because what I'll do is I'll create a list because we've had a friend of mine also said to me, Oh, she listened to the bikini episode with her daughters. And it was amazing. That discussion that came out of it. I've had another listener who talked about I think it was this one about sports that she'd done with her sleep. No, it was the sleep one that she had, she listened to it. And then she went back and found the section where she sat and listened to it with him so that it came from somebody else. Yeah. So if you're doing that, do let us know. Because then we can help other other listeners by saying these ones could be suitable for you. Brilliant. Yeah, great. And we maybe we should just

Susie Asli: 7:06

lovely that people listen to them like their kids. Yes. Mine won't listen to them. To talk about us? Well, yeah, but only like stuff that I want you to listen, and you'll see No, I can't be bothered.

Rachel Richards: 7:20

Yeah, I think it's awkward isn't it doesn't matter. So I thought we'd start and possibly end this chat with a meaningful quote. And it because it relates to a lot of things that are coming along and it's by Viktor Frankl, when a person can't find a deep sense of meaning they distract themselves with pleasure. And the reason I thought about this quote, when I was thinking about these different stories was the work and pension secretary in the UK Mel stride. Oh, wasn't

Susie Asli: 7:47

expecting you to go there. Yeah.

Rachel Richards: 7:51

Well wait for it. Okay, has argued that pornography and video games are fueling a mental health crisis among young men causing them to leave the workforce. So he's saying that's why people are leaving the workforce. Okay. And he was talking to the work and pension select committee. And he says, Yes, women, women's mental health has been impacted by unrealistic standards of beauty. But it's the things like gaming and pornography that are impacting the guys. Now, the reason he brought this up is because the Office of National Statistics recently gave the figures for the period from January to March 2024, showing that 900,000 young people between 16 and 24 are classified as neat. Have you heard that acronym?

Susie Asli: 8:33

Yeah, but not in this context, not in education, employment training is something completely different.

Rachel Richards: 8:41

And, and this is an increase of 88,000. From the previous Wow. So these are, these are. So I interviewed Ken Rebo, the last episode, and he talked to him. These are the people he's talking about the young adults who actually are failing to launch. Yeah. And he talked through the way that he picks apart what's going on. And but this guy, this secretary is saying it's this. Not actually pointing out that they've had to deal with the global pandemic. oversimplify? Yes, yes. But it is a big number 900,000 young men out of work. And in contrast, there were 11,000 Fewer young women are to work at the same time. Yeah. So what do you think? I

Susie Asli: 9:29

say? No, I always go statistics, like that's such an oversimplified. There's never one reason for anything. So there must be a million reasons and why there why this has happened. Yeah, and maybe we start looking at the education system. And there are a million reasons as to why that could be I can't come with them. Many of them now but i My reaction is always like, yeah, okay, and let's spread it out and unpack it properly.

Rachel Richards: 9:52

Well, I just wonder because it this whole question coming back to that, quote, the deep sense of meaning then distracting yourself. I wanted to bring this up, because I've read a lot of books recently and talk to young men about the experience of leaving education. And the feedback I get is that there's a lot of structure in education and home life, not necessarily at home life, but there's structure. And I've heard from kids who've gone to private schools who've had the most amazing opportunities, as well as kids who really haven't had many opportunities. And the one thing I hear a lot of from boys in particular, is they leave education. And then there's no structure. And they just are not equipped for, like, how do I move on in the world? How do I do this thing? Yeah.

Susie Asli: 10:43

So that is stepping stone for the transition? Yes,

Rachel Richards: 10:47

yeah. And I do wonder about that. And I wonder whether the way our society works, is not giving enough cues and ideas for how you how you find these jobs? How are we? Are we not giving them enough work experience, for example, I

Susie Asli: 11:04

mean, that makes complete sense. When I think about the way we parent now, I mean, obviously, I've only parented this, in this era, from what I've heard and read alike, we are very different with our kids. And we we parent very differently. We're much more, I don't know how you want to explain it in their faces. We are we are their structure very much more. And of course, there's a massive spectrum of how that looks, but and then suddenly we go off you go, yes, whereas maybe before there was more of a gentle transition, you know, kids, kids were less, you know, we don't have a lot of free space, these teenagers, you know, exactly that. Yes, they are structured, and suddenly it's gone. And then I imagine for some of them, that's a bit overwhelming. For some of them, it's probably lovely. But for those who need that structure, and are reliant on it, then maybe it's more, it's more of a step than it used to be. I don't know, I'm just spouting. I think

Rachel Richards: 11:55

that's absolutely. One of the problems. And I think that I started, I had a paper round be from about the age of 13. And I very quickly went on to being a waitress. And you know, and I worked in a fish and chip shop, and I worked in a cafe at the weekends for free just because I wanted to, you know, it was a church cafe. Because I wanted to have something to do. And I, I A lot of that's gone. Yeah, these kids. And I think that's also doesn't give them a sense of okay, the way to do this is, you know, I've been talking to my daughters about going and getting work and they kind of well, how does that work? And I just go get a CV go, yeah, go meet the manager, ask go to this place turn up, very nice to meet the manager. But it's hard. It's hard. And

Susie Asli: 12:40

maybe it's you know, that that's one aspect of it isn't getting a job and getting into the workplace as a teenager, that's one part of it. One part is also just like, general structure of your life, like, you know, I think we manage our kids and our kids times, even if we think we don't, in a way that other generations just haven't done, yeah, you know, we are in their faces in a different way. And there's loads of positives to that, you know, we might maybe we're closer in a different way. And, and, you know, we hang out with our kids more, not everybody, I'm aware that you know, it's very different depends on your family, and what you want and what the kids are like. But we probably hang out with our kids more than we used to your kids us just go off and do their own thing. And they don't anymore for lots and lots of different reasons. And so therefore, the contrast is just bigger. And I imagine for some that's overwhelming.

Rachel Richards: 13:26

Yeah, I'm Ken Rainbow said, you know, he mentioned helicopter parents, and he said, Yeah, I'll meet your kids later. Those are the ones that I end up working with. So that was a bit of a. I mean, and we will talk about this in another episode, because I've been listening to the most amazing book that I've now bought, and I'm reading through it. And it's about executive function in teenagers and how to spot when there's missing executive function and how to support them to build those skills, so that they then can do it because some of some, some kids figure this stuff out. For some, it takes a lot more work, and you can help them but it's about sort of just tweaking it, and then getting them to do it themselves, rather than us being too close to the coalface

Susie Asli: 14:09

and we now know and filling in people's brains are very, very different. I also think that it's it's there is a balance, and sometimes we don't get it right, myself included of, of, you know, we are maybe more for our kids now in a different way. Because we know we find most people know maybe a bit more about, you know, the psychology behind parenting or just little snippets as in the you know, it's in mainstream media. And, and we, we want to be there for them, we want to nurture them, we want to really be present because we know that's really important, especially for later in life, you know, we have a relationship forever. It's not just until they leave home. We know more so we want to do that. And then the one you talked about helicopter parenting and sometimes we confuse them and they're not the same thing. So you know, nurturing and being there so that we create a secure attachment so that they can fly because we've created the security through love and presence and One of those things is not the same as helicopter parenting where we, we are, you know, smoothing the way for them so that we make them unable to function in the world. That's that's bulldozer parenting. So yeah,

Rachel Richards: 15:12

looking over their shoulder all the time, and the bulldozer is going in front of them and clearing them. They're similar. They're similar overload. They're just, you're just too involved, and you're not giving them the chance to actually learn the skills. And I've seen lots of debates with parents where, you know, one parent said, Oh, my kid forgot their swimming costume. So I just said, well, you'll just have to go with natural consequences. And other parents are saying, that's a horrific thing to do. They need to know that you're there for them. And it's where do you go? And my response was, Well, what I do is I have checklists. So I've told my child how to create checklists, I then remind them when that we're leaving the home, if they then don't have it, I say, Well, you know, consequences come in. Because there's only so much picking up you should be doing, you do need to get teach them how to do these things. But then you need to stand back and say, Well, yeah, and

Susie Asli: 15:57

I mean, for me, I think it's it's moment by moment and kid by kid, I don't actually have rules for that I do. Okay, in this moment. Okay, I can see you really, this is really important to you. So I'm going to maybe do what I wouldn't have done last week. Yeah, you know, it's picking. But there is a difference, I think between those two, for sure, for sure.

Rachel Richards: 16:14

And so leading on from that. Rishi Sunak, who's the prime minister in the UK, at the moment, just for a little while longer, has suddenly come out and said, If the Tories if the Conservatives get in next time, national service will be a promise that they are going to get I can't it's an 18 year olds national service for all 18 year olds, with teenagers required to either volunteer in their local community or take a full time role in the armed forces. Yeah, for six months in England. Yeah, so the community volunteering, it would require them to spend one weekend a month volunteering for one year, for a year, 25 days in total. That's pretty much what you see, my daughters have been doing Duke of Edinburgh. And they pretty much had to do that. So they've done litter picking, which was a real revelation to them. And they become much more conscientious about the environment around them as a result, and they all think that they think everyone should do less begging, which I do, I walk my dogs, and people chuck stuff into the the beautiful countryside out of their car windows. And every two weeks, I'll take a litter picker with a black plastic bag, and I'll pick it all up. But someone's got to do it. Right. Okay, so and then military training, it would be 30,000 Teenagers would be able to take up places to spend a year full time in the Armed Forces young adults would need to apply for the program and tests would be used to select the best candidates. It would not involve combat. What do we think?

Susie Asli: 17:40

Oh, I don't know. My youngest daughter was like,

Rachel Richards: 17:43

oh, it's crossed her on? She said, Well, he'll definitely lose now and the other one went, the other went, but the people who will be voting conservatives are old. They will be going yeah, we think national service is great. And the young people who were 16 don't get to vote Yeah.

Susie Asli: 17:58

Or in less labor again.

Rachel Richards: 18:01

Yes, yeah. That's another thing. If you're not in this country, you won't know this. But Labour is now saying that they want 16 year olds to have the vote. Yeah.

Susie Asli: 18:09

My kids, my 16 year olds, I haven't spoken to my 19 year old about it, because he's not at home at the moment. I spoken to one of them, particularly anyone and he thinks it's a terrible idea. And he doesn't want to be doing it. And he's out. He's completely outraged, like your daughter at it. Yeah, I don't know. I think enforcing these things is always really problematic, isn't it? I think that's the bit we balk at. I think most people would agree with a bit of community service is never going to be a bad thing. Like picking up litter who could who could argue against that, really. And making people do it for a whole year as the bit we don't like don't like being told don't

Rachel Richards: 18:49

well, but particularly the British were quite, quite determined. Especially it is a

Susie Asli: 18:53

new thing. Like you've been doing it forever. And also then the feeling of unfair, it's unfair that they didn't they didn't have to do it. Why do I have to do that 25 Saturdays a week or whatever it is. I think that's the

Rachel Richards: 19:03

issue. Now just for background, Sweden, everyone between the ages of 16 and 70. Living in Sweden as part of the country's total defense. Right? There are three types of total defense service in Sweden, conscription, civilian service and general compulsory national service,

Susie Asli: 19:19

which is always really interesting, isn't it? Because Sweden is supposedly very pacifist? Not you know, and the opposite of what we would think of as a US military

Rachel Richards: 19:28

country. Yeah, and Russia, Russia, all men in Russia are currently required to complete 12 months of military service or equivalent training during higher education from the age of 18, which

Susie Asli: 19:38

maybe isn't so surprising. It's not surprising. They have a different way of being but they cannot legally be deployed

Rachel Richards: 19:43

to fight outside Russia. Okay. And Norway, 19 to 44 year olds are obliged to complete 19 months of military service. Denmark. conscription in Denmark is mandatory for all physically fit men over the age of 18. Is it are they the country has 1700 conscripts as they abolished it. Well, actually, do

Susie Asli: 20:04

you know what I haven't lived there for years? They did have it, then they abolished it. Maybe they brought it back in again. I don't know. I couldn't speak for that. Francis

Rachel Richards: 20:10

and what Wait, let's China recently. In fact, I think it was last week I was looking at the Times newspaper, President Xi is said to fear that young people are losing their patriotic focus. And young men their masculinity. So he said all high school pupils in China will be forced to undergo mandatory military service under a new law on Defense Education. Yeah, and the law, which will nationwide debate over whether it's already a common practice also proposes drills for middle school pupils, aged 12 to 15. And says that Defense Education should be part of a syllabus, even for primary school children. Finally, France. So that's what that's the closest nation to us. French President Emmanuel Macron implemented universal national service in 2021, aimed at 15 to 17 year olds, and it's supposed to encourage young French citizens to develop their role in society. And it's 12 day residential stay, and 84 hours of voluntary work at a local authority. But guess what? Yesterday papers, France's National Service scheme beset by drugs and disorder. Oh, and there have been reports of fights and sexual assaults among teens volunteering. So President Macron has had to delay making the scheme mandatory. It's not simple. So we can sit there and say, Oh, well, we're going to do this made me make them all. But actually trying to implement these things can be very tricky. Yeah. And

Susie Asli: 21:34

it's the you know, it's a, we're going into an election. It's all a bit. Yes. So it's not simple. No, it's not simple. And you know, it is the world is changing, isn't it? And there's been a lot of mumbling about, you know, what do we need to do to be to be ready, if anything should happen. And there's a million different opinions on that on there, depending on where you stand on all of it. And, you know, we're, we're going into an election, so let's check this out. But

Rachel Richards: 21:58

I do wonder, I do wonder the extent to which we parents are doing enough to talk to our kids about being in a society.

Susie Asli: 22:09

That's Yes, that's away from the military side of it is away from the military. That's different,

Rachel Richards: 22:13

I think it's actually vitally important that we parents talk to our kids about the fact that the reason we can walk down streets safely, hopefully, we can, that we can, you know, go into the countryside, and it's not full of litter and all the things that we that, you know, the rubbish gets taken away all these things, whether we're wealthy or poor, we rely on a structure and a society to do things for us. Not all of that is done by our taxes. We also all pay our taxes. Yeah, a lot of people are relying on charitable donations and work done by people who are just giving their time. And we need to be stressing that we should respect society for what it offers us. And we need to give back. Yeah, I'm a believer in that.

Susie Asli: 22:58

There is a there is a you know, there is a maybe it's a human response thing that you know, if we think somebody is responsible for doing something, then we stopped doing it. Yes. So you know, if we think somebody is going to tidy up after us, then we go, oh, well, then they will, they'll do it. And we don't, then we don't pick up anything, or we didn't do anything because we think oh, it's covered, it's done. And then when something does happen, we think oh, some some responsible person in charge will do it. And goes that responsibility. Maybe

Rachel Richards: 23:29

it's us, maybe it's us. And that I say that to my kids all the time, I just say you have to walk through this world, offering back as much if not more, than you're taking out a bit. We need to be stressing this to our kids so that they they have purpose in life, and they feel good when they do things. They might like moan about it. But actually, you know, when we do take a bag and pick up litter, they're like, Look what I got a big bag. So you just say look, look what you did today to contribute back. Yeah, great.

Susie Asli: 23:56

And the next time they one of their mates, maybe Chuck something, they'll go, Hey, you want to do that next week with my mum?

Rachel Richards: 24:02

Correct? Exactly, because it feeds out. And on the on the just coming to back to the military service, but also actually boys, because I think boys are the couple of bits in the press that I wanted to talk about. One of them was there's a Twitter teacher, who talks a lot about boys is called Mr. Pink on Twitter if you want to find him. And he talks a lot about masculinity. And he said that someone had asked him What if the female teacher what should I say? If a boy says what the sigma in my class? Now for people who don't know what sigma means, they're just going to show up and go I don't I don't understand why that's an issue. And he said, Well, look, it's no different from saying what the heck, because a lot of these kids don't actually know what it really means. Anyway, in the same way that when I was in a hairdresser, and this girl went, just said, Oh, bugger that and I said Do you know what that word actually means? And she didn't. So he said actually, if someone said But I probably just ignore it and then later on, take them to one side and say, do you understand that that word is linked to some pretty creepy ideas and views. And so let's go to what that means. Because a lot of people don't know. So it comes from in cell culture. And what they do is they have created this sort of misguided mythology about what men are, and they are categorized, and there's the alpha male. And then the sigma male is an alpha male. So he's one that's at the top, but he's quiet. He's a silent picker, as opposed to one of the Alpha boasting guys, right? And then they have ridiculous things like Beta, Gamma Omega males, and these are all placed towards the bottom of the hierarchy. And this entire made up hierarchy confines young men, men, it makes them think, Oh, I'm, I'm only this said the damaging side of it is that we're not allowing boys to have a full expression of who they are as a human being. And that's why it's worth talking to our sons about what this means and why it doesn't. It's not a good thing to think. It's not a good way to think. And it's not helpful. And actually, it's wrong. Yeah.

Susie Asli: 26:14

But maybe the point for the question was a teacher saying that, you know, it's, it's me if we make make it into a really big deal and don't need to let it go. My daughter had her she had any she really understands the content, she made you we haven't really spoken about it in depth. I don't want to make out that she doesn't know what it means. But my impression was she didn't notice. It's not a big deal. It's just an idiom. But it's important to know what is important to know. And but to do it in a way that is appropriate. And not me. It's a bit like, when a toddler swears for the first time, isn't it? Who knows? And we'll go Oh, my goodness, oh, gosh, you know, and laugh or freak outs. And then they, it's a way bigger deal than it needs to be and that person has a context for?

Rachel Richards: 26:55

Absolutely. But I do think I mean, I mentioned it, and my daughter said, Oh, I hear that all the time. Yeah. So it does get bandied around. So it's worth Yes, it's worth just addressing it so that your boy can see that actually, because he may not if he hasn't had an adult on the room saying just so you know, this is a really confining way to think about yourself as a man. And that's not necessary. You can think about yourself as a really multilayered complex human being, which you are, yeah, yeah, it's worth having that knowledge. Exactly. I'm staying on the boys, bigger Exia has come up again, apparently, there's been a lot more talk about it. Because on tick tock, there's a huge amount of young men who are flexing muscles, and they get morph, they get fed out on the algorithm much more quickly, right. And so your son might be gaming or interested in something else. And then they get this feed, you know, it targets boys. And as a parent, you could end up thinking, well, this is great. My son who hasn't been doing anything is now going to the gym. Yeah, it's amazing. You'd be talking to teenage boys, a lot of them are saying, well, now it's a flex, you need to be going to the gym, you need to be big to be to feel like you're in a male, a man. And my husband was one of those skinny skinny boys who grew really quickly and would never put on muscle no matter how much he he just couldn't. And and I said to him, you know, how would you feel if you were growing up in an environment where it was so predominant? He said it would be it's hard. Yeah. So it is hard.

Susie Asli: 28:38

I think it's, uh, I spoke to my daughter really briefly about this yesterday. And in her opinion, and she's obviously not a boy. She doesn't see it that much. And maybe it's, I think it depends as well. So sometimes, you know, we hear these stories, don't we in the news, and it's like the new awful thing that's going to destroy every teenage boy in the world. And maybe it is, and maybe it isn't. So we also need to kind of what how much is it preventing? It is definitely Brendan I spoke to and I said, Yeah, but in my generation, nobody would have been, like muscley. And in that way, unless they were doing sport or physical work that made them become that way. It wouldn't be there wouldn't be the intention to get muscles just for the sake of having muscles. And so it is different. It has changed. It's like, okay, you know, that is a difference. But she you know, that maybe? Yeah, I don't know. I think just keeping an eye on it isn't if it becomes obsessive, then that's not a good thing. But how rare rampant is I don't know maybe? Well,

Rachel Richards: 29:36

one of the things they were saying was that the problem is there are boys who are using IDs to get into gym. Yeah, under the age and then not actually being given. That's dangerous for them. Yeah. So they could actually damage things. It's not just about whether you're building muscle. It's like, are you pulling soft tissues or things that are going to cause problems in long term, slipped, discs, all those things because actually, if you're pulling a lot of weight, and you've got your mate surrounds you cheering you on, then that can be really, really

Susie Asli: 30:03

dangerous for young bodies to be doing too many weights. That's yeah, absolutely no contest. And maybe, you know, for some people, it really is a problem. And it's a real issue and a sort of almost an addiction, isn't it? I think we spoke about that in an episode. It's really not a good idea. But but maybe it's, I don't know. Not Not everybody's doing it. No, no, no, I

Rachel Richards: 30:22

just wanted to flag it up, because it has come up again, we've done a piece on boys eating everything and bigger Exia just to kind of highlight it. And I think Yeah, and actually, I read that body dysmorphic disorder has one of the highest suicide rates of all the mental health conditions in these younger Yes, eating disorders sick. Yes. And so parents ask these questions. If you think your teenager might have a problem, is the gym preventing them from spending time with their friends and family? It's the same thing with screen time. Is, is this taking you away from other healthy things? Yeah. Are they spending excessive amounts of time exercising or exercising when injured? And are they feeling distress if they can't go and exercise? And one guideline I saw was that it should be two to three days a week, not five, six days a week? How strict is the gym diet? Does it cause distress, if they have to deviate from it? Again, you know, we've talked about this before, if you fixate on one thing, then that's a little bit of a red flag. It's quite a big red flag. Right? And also has the gym habit grown really quickly? Because if it has, that's also an indication that the it's being fed by something. Yeah, right. Yeah. I just wanted to bring this up. Again, it's really important back in the news, and I think that it's worth being aware, so that we can ask questions, engage. Yeah, and try and help them before it becomes ingrained? Because as we've said before, it's really hard when when a kid looks really healthy, or they're doing they've switched from a sort of sedentary lifestyle to doing something like that. You think, oh, this is great. Yeah. And we may not spot No,

Susie Asli: 31:56

just were when it tipped over. Yeah. Because there's not really particularly natural for them for them to have these massive muscles and you know, be obsessing about it. That's absolutely.

Rachel Richards: 32:05

That's it. Oh, I have any other things that I want to

Susie Asli: 32:10

end on a quote, if you notice the

Rachel Richards: 32:12

same quote, Oh, nice. Let's go back again, when a person can't find a deep sense of meaning. They distract themselves with pleasure. I don't

Susie Asli: 32:21

see anything wrong with distracting myself with pleasure. No, but it's interesting that

Rachel Richards: 32:27

I think it's this sense of what the distractions Yeah, so my daughter will tell me that if she ends up sort of stuck on social media, she has actually said to me, you know, why me? It's because I just didn't feel great. Yeah. And the feeling great, I think often comes from having purpose or having something that you feel is important, and you're worthwhile and you're useful and I

Susie Asli: 32:48

was just being flippant, but I would question that that's not pleasure is it pleasure is you know wholehearted? Really enjoy I

Rachel Richards: 32:55

agree. Distraction is numbing, oh, very depressing. Maybe it should be they distract themselves with like distractions.

Susie Asli: 33:01

But I would really not want to be recruiting Viktor Frankl because he's quite good. I wouldn't want to do that to what we want. I think he's a bit smarter if

Rachel Richards: 33:18

you in vector. If you found this useful handed on to someone else, you can just press you know, like, get on your whatsapp and just say, Hey, have you listened to this one is a chit chat. Sometimes we do that most of the time. We don't. But it's useful to have a bit of mix up. And sometimes there are things you want to mop up.

Susie Asli: 33:34

And there are a lot there are things for our teens in our country. In the news at the moment. It's really irrelevant.

Rachel Richards: 33:39

Yes, absolutely. Yes. And if you want any more information, if you want to contact me, it's teenagers untangled@gmail.com. If you want to contact Suzy, what's your email address?

Susie Asli: 33:51

Or my my website website is www dot a mindful hyphen? life.co.uk you can find me on that. Perfect

Rachel Richards: 33:59

and if you want to sort of search for any back episodes or anything, it's www.teenagersuntangled.com they're all on there. I've got a blog that I intermittently update. That's pretty much human who knows the w's. What about the ex wives and the

Susie Asli: 34:16

two new deputies and that's it for now.