94: Switching parental gears for their new school year.

The holidays are a great time to begin preparing our kids for the next year, but there's so much we could be doing it's hard to know where to start. I've turned to and someone who specialises in helping parents with tweens to give us some great, actionable tips.

JoAnn Schauf, who founded Your Tween and You, and is the author of Loving the Alien: How to Parent Your Tween, emphasizes the importance of focusing on fostering autonomy and confidence in children.

In this episode we talked about:

• Goal-setting and allowing them to use their voice to set their goals.
• The way our role changes and being clear about the new relationship.
• The confusing changes that happen in our tween's brain.
• The benefit of an accountability partner.
• Using an accomplishment journal.
• Noticing when the good things they do.
• Focusing only on effort.
• Allowing our kids to set their own goals.
• Discussing homework building blocks.
• Discussing screen time and empowering them to manage it.

CONTACT JOANN SHAUF:
https://www.yourtweenandyou.com/

Transcript

Rachel Richards: 0:01

Music, hello and welcome to teenagers. Untangled the audio hug for parents going through the teenage years. I'm Rachel Richards parenting coach, journalist, mother of two teenagers and two owners daughters. Today, I'm joined by Joanne schoff, who is the what you call a parent whisperer, and she studied psychology, then went on into counseling, and she's worked in counseling within schools, and she's also been a therapist, so she's got a lot of things that going on, and she's just recently launched a book called Loving The Alien, which is for parents of tweens. So kind of nine to 14 would be that? Would that be the right

JoAnn Schauf: 0:38

exactly when puberty starts and everything changes. That's the audience for the parents.

Rachel Richards: 0:44

The thing that attracted me initially was the transitioning from summer to school, which is a huge topic that a lot of parents struggle with. But let's come on to that in a while and start out with goal setting with tweens, because that's one of your big things that you're you seem to be quite good at. You know, if you're talking to a parent of these young kids who are sort of moving into the tween years, what would you be saying to them about trying to set goals for them?

JoAnn Schauf: 1:13

So I think one of the really great things about a new school year is that everybody gets a fresh start. You get a fresh teachers, you get fresh classrooms, maybe you even get a fresh school. And so whatever label or hardship you might have had the year before, you don't have to live with that this year. And I think it's important that parents just reiterate that to their kids, like it's going to be a new year, what's going to be different? And the value of letting them talk about what's going to be different is really valuable. So many times we just want to cover everything and say, this is going to be great because A, B, C, D, E, F, G, all these reasons, right? But when we let our child talk about what's going to be different and what's going to be better, then it's their voice, and the power of their voice speaking to them is amazing. Why is it so important that it's their voice? Because when, when we start talking, when we as a parent, start telling our kids something they can tell within the first two sentences, if this is information they want to hear or not, because they can hear the lecture mode. And when the lecture mode starts, their brain just turns off many times they could, in fact, give the lecture. And so when we let our child voice What's going to be great, what's going to be good, what's exciting, it's them telling themselves what's going to be better,

Unknown: 2:35

interesting, and they believe it. And

Rachel Richards: 2:37

I think for parents, you know you, let's say you take a nine year old versus somebody who's now 14. There's a massive, massive difference, huge changes underway. A lot of parents, I think, get blindsided by it, because you're not you. For most of us, we're doing this for the first time, right? So what would you give to parents who are going into sort of transitioning into between years. So

JoAnn Schauf: 3:03

there's a there's a couple things that I think are really important for parents to realize initially, is that their role is going to change completely, instead of being this person that gets all these likes and is loved and cherished, and kids want to come home and tell them everything, and then adolescence begins, and that's the that's puberty, that's the change in them looking for their identity, and it's also their prefrontal cortex not firing very well, like they'll do really stupid things, and you'll say, Why did you throw your tennis shoes in the in the basketball hoop? And they won't be able to tell you, because they don't know. So those three things are really important for parents to understand, and it's not really the child's fault that they're all these things are happening at the same time. So for parents, if they can move from the authority figure to more of a proactive coaching attitude, that's going to help that relationship a lot. And

Rachel Richards: 4:00

how would you it's a really interesting point you're making there, because I've talked about this on the podcast before, where what I did with my kids when they started to turn double digits was I took them away just for a short time, one to one, and I actually actively explained to them that life was we were changing gears, that I was not going to be that person who told them how things worked anymore, I was going to be sort of sitting shoulder to shoulder with them and trying to kind of look out at what was going on and how we fix things and how we do things. Are there other things that parents could be doing to kind of make that shift because, because we can say we have to transition, but they they may not realize that you're you can see that, or you don't. You need to sort of remind yourself that that's the job you need to be doing,

JoAnn Schauf: 4:44

right? That's excellent that you did that with each of your kids, because you just took that moment to let them know how special you were and that your relationship was going to be evolving. And that's such a nice thing for children to have their parent just understand what's going to be happening. And that. And care and concern. I mean, especially when you have four kids to take each of them away separately, that's that's really nice. I think one of the things that's important is, when we're talking about going back to school, is really talking with your child about what the expectations are going to be so early. And you know, as we're getting closer to school starting, probably a good idea for parents would be to go to their child and say something like, I know you're still thinking about summer. You'll you're still having fun with your friends and swimming, but I want you to think about what your goals are going to be for this coming school year. And I don't want to talk to you about it today, but in the next week or two, I want you to come to me and tell me when you're ready to talk about it, because we really want to get started well. So that's an invitation to a conversation.

Rachel Richards: 5:50

It's interesting, because I think a lot of kids who that, who are transitioning to senior school that they're not really going to be aware of what their goals should be, you know they want, that they're just going to want, I think, I think primarily they're going to care about making friends and being popular, right? My experience that's been their their main interest. Exactly

JoAnn Schauf: 6:12

the social thing is the most important thing on their minds. And that is really important because that plays into our mental health, that plays into our sense of belonging, that plays into our sense of confidence. And so it is important that they have a good social group that they can count on. They can do things with. They can, you know, there's some other things that really benefit from having a good social life. And one of the things that I've encouraged parents to do is to help their child get an accountability partner at school so they've got so maybe they're in a in a tough class and but they're really smart, but they might want to have two or three people that they have for accountability partners. And they can call and say, hey, you know, I was wondering how you did this, or I need you to urge me. Or they can also just be there for that their friend when they're not doing well, or they're stuck so that the ability to just have appear in your corner is really, really important.

Rachel Richards: 7:09

I love that suggestion. I heard that mentioned on a podcast with Angela Duckworth, who is famed for her TED talk about resilience and grit. And she talked about, I think it was her who was her who was talking about it. But it's this kind of, you know, if you want to do a sports and you find a partner who you have to go and talk to about what's going on, rather than just doing it to yourself or to your parent, you're sort of moving it to somebody else who's in the group with you. So you help each other,

JoAnn Schauf: 7:37

right? Another thing that, yes, another thing that parents can help their children do is to have an acknowledgement journal so that they write down what they've done. Because a lot of times we feel, especially kids will feel that they're not doing much, they're not trying hard. But if you write down at the end of the day, or at the beginning of the next day, all the things that you actually did that day, it's a nice review. It's a nice pat on the back. And our adolescents need that. They really need to know that they're doing a good job, that they've got things that they're accomplishing.

Unknown: 8:12

I love that

Rachel Richards: 8:13

that's like, I have not heard that, so that's like having a gratitude journal. But actually, what it is, it's all about accomplishments, because I have a blog on On New Year's resolutions, and I also talked about how you can start your summer holiday. And for me, one of the most important things to start with is, what have I achieved? What am I what are the good things? Because we so negative, we're biased in such a negative way that it's actually really good to have. And I love that, that, you know, let's every day sort of have a recap of what you've managed to achieve, even if it's I managed to get to school

JoAnn Schauf: 8:47

right now, things like I was on time, I didn't have I didn't have a fashion crisis. I knew what I was going to wear. Yes, those are little things, but they're big things. Yes, and

Rachel Richards: 8:59

I think as parents, we we often have ideas of what our kids should be doing to be held accountable, so, you know, chores around the house or things, and then we see everything slipping, you know, their bedrooms and mess, and they're not doing the tidying up. And we, we're in horror about it, but actually, quite often, they're not capable of doing all the there's so much that they're having to do, that they're not capable of doing a job. So for us, it's is useful to see that too and think, okay, they're not, you know, they're not really, exactly.

JoAnn Schauf: 9:29

And I think one of the other things parents can do that's really helpful when we think of our kids gaining confidence and having a positive sense of self, is just noticing things and not making a big deal at it, just very casually saying things to them, like, Wow, your organizational skills are so great. You reorganize the sports bin and now we can use it. Or I love seeing you be kind to your brother teaching them how to catch the ball. Or I never have to remind you to make your bed anymore. You're so reliable. Yeah, so when our kids hear those things about themselves and we're not saying them expecting anything in return, it really does build up their their confidence level, because they're hearing comments that they don't always they're not able to measure their progress or see that they're doing things different. So mentioning those things just a little, just an aside that pop into the bedroom and say, I'm so proud of you for getting your bed made every day that must make you feel great. And I love that,

Rachel Richards: 10:27

because it's also very specific. So you're noticing little things, and it doesn't have to be a major loud Wow, you're a star. Just these little things that make them realize that you're noticing. And you know, because I think often we notice the bad things because they annoy us, and what we have to do is switch that.

JoAnn Schauf: 10:43

Yeah. So back to your your whole thing that you want to talk about today, goal setting for school. So one of the things that I think is really great for parents to introduce to their children is this idea of setting a number grade. You get number grades in in England, yeah,

Rachel Richards: 11:04

uh, yes, we have, what we tend to do in England is we have a grade for achievement and a grade for

Unknown: 11:11

effort. Oh, lovely. I like that. That's what. That's

Rachel Richards: 11:15

what, that's what the teachers tend to give, you know, in schools. And sometimes you don't get an achievement grade. You wouldn't have been taking tests or anything, but they'll give an effort

JoAnn Schauf: 11:24

grade. That's awesome. I wish we did that here, because, you know, someone can work their very best and get a 75 which is an average, but someone else works their very best and they get a 95 but they're still working their best, and that's what needs to be honored, much more than their grade. So that's I love that. Yes, maybe I can bring it over here. Well,

Rachel Richards: 11:45

I, you know, we have listeners in 160 countries, so I'm sure it varies across the world. And it's really interesting one, because I I really understood when my kids were young how important it is to focus on effort and not on the grades themselves. And my kids have actually told me, yes, you did only focus on this. It's the only thing you ever really concentrated on, because my kids are very, very different, and it would be super unfair to single out the grades themselves for reward or praise.

Unknown: 12:19

But even then, it's, I think

Rachel Richards: 12:22

it's, it's not just the grades in school. I think it's also just how you notice these other things you said, like, how you notice the other things that they're doing? Because we can say, Oh, we you know, I'm just praising your effort. How hard did you work at school? But noticing those other little drips of praise in the other things makes them feel valued in a different way, doesn't it?

JoAnn Schauf: 12:42

It really does. Even like you're so great you always got your backpack ready to go in the morning, so that that also, you know, points out their organization and their planning. And so all the things that you can say like that, just little tidbits, are really helpful. But I think when we get back to setting goals for school. One of the things that we we want is we want our kids to be hard workers. We want them to learn to work hard, because they're going to need to work hard in the real world, and schools the perfect opportunity to do that. And so when we look at each class that the students taking and we let them talk about what their grade goal is going to be. It's them setting that goal, and it's okay for them to say, okay, I can get a 95 in math. But, you know, Mom, my my English is not that great. I don't like to read and I don't like grammar, so I can work hard and get an 88 in language. And so then you go on and on through each thing where the child is saying exactly what they're going to get in each class. And then you're asking them to, hey, will you just write that down for us? And in the end, you're going to ask them for an invitation to to come and meet with you every week to talk about how they're doing in school, because that way you as the parent get the story. You get to find out, Oh, you had that substitute, that they'll tell you we had a substitute, and she didn't want to be there, so she showed us movies or we were supposed to take the test. Our teacher forgot to leave it for us, so we didn't have to take the test when we had the substitute. But you want the stories. You don't just want the data. So when that, when your child comes to you every week and shows you the portal with their grades, and you're asking them, you know, tell me what happened? How did that go? They get to tell the story. So not only do you get to know what's going on in their world, but they get to say, Oh, I studied hard for this, and I was ready, and I earned this so much better than us. Saying You did such a great job. I'm so proud of you, because, again, it's their it's their voice. Yes,

Rachel Richards: 14:53

I don't want micromanaging either. You're giving them no hold Exactly,

JoAnn Schauf: 14:58

exactly. And. Then another part of the goal setting is like, what, where and when are you going to do your homework? Are you going to do it at the kitchen table? Are you going to do it in your room? Are you going to do it on the bus on the way home? When are you going to do it? And how is that going to work for you? Because to get those grades, whatever grades they need. The building blocks have to be there for that to happen. How are you going to what's your plan for writing down your homework? Are you going to do it on your phone? Do you need a notebook? So when we talk about all the building blocks to get these grades, that's what we're really building. Is those the accountability for being responsible, for taking the time, for managing exactly if this, if I have to do this project and it's due on Friday and today's Monday, am I going to knock it out in one day? Or I'm going to do a little bit at a time, because kids really need help figuring out how that's going to work.

Rachel Richards: 15:58

Amazing. I agree. And then you're handing the skill growth to them, right?

JoAnn Schauf: 16:04

And I think another thing that we need to help them when they're talking about how this is going to work, is, what are they going to do with their phone while they're doing their homework? How are they going to control their screen time? Good point, because even though we all think we can do two things at the same time, we really have one central processing center, and so we're never giving our full attention to either when we're trying to do both and to learn, we really need to or to be present with whether it's homework or another person, we need to just give our time and attention to that. And you know, kids don't think that way. So when we ask, how are you going to how are you going to strategize to plan your screen time, your phone time, and get your homework done separately? Can you say that word separately? And then that's their big clue that, oh, they have to start thinking about that.

Rachel Richards: 16:58

I love this. And do you advocate for so you what you're doing is you're trying to engage them. So you're trying to get them to think about this stuff ahead of time, which is amazing, because I wish I'd known these things before my kids. No, no, genuinely. Because I think a lot of us just think, oh, I don't really, you know, I just said, it's gonna be great. It's

Unknown: 17:17

gonna be great. Um,

Rachel Richards: 17:19

would you say that parents, if your child says, Oh, but I can work with my phone. It's going to be fine. Or, you know, how would you work with a tween who already has a phone in terms of just kind of boundaries around phones? Have you got any tips for that?

JoAnn Schauf: 17:37

So, you know, this is a this is like the itching of all questions, right? How are you going to get anything done without being distracted by your phone? And sometimes we as parents are not very good examples of that. We have our phone with us all the time, and we're constantly answering texts or listening to something on social media. And so one of the things we as parents can do, because we are the leaders, is set an example of not having that phone on all the time, which is very difficult, because we all have some level of addiction to our phone, because it connects us to people, it makes us feel wonderful, and we get those pings in our brain, ah, someone loves us, someone thinks about us, something's funny, and it feels good. It's so much more fun than doing homework. Oh, anyway, or working, or doing the dishes or anything. So we have to help our child understand. Like, how long would it take you to do your homework if you were just doing your homework and you didn't have your phone on? How would it be if you texted your friends and said, I'm going to have my phone off between, you know, seven and 830 while I study, don't bother texting me, but when I'm done, I'll turn my phone back on and let you know. So we're trying to empower them to set some boundaries with them, with themself and with their friends.

Rachel Richards: 18:52

I love what you say about the parental behavior, because I've changed by getting a group together with my daughters where we have each other's screen time passwords and we hold each other accountable so they are allowed to look through my screen time, and they have limits on things and to check and and it's, it's slightly embarrassing, and it was because they'd say, Well, look how you perform. You spent on this. But actually it's helped me. It's helped me step away from this. And I think albeit, kids between are quite young to be doing this with them. But I love what you said, and it's backed up by a recent study I saw that was done in America. I think it was 10,000 kids, where they looked at the way in which kids related to their phones, young adolescents, the sort of age group you're talking about, and they said parental behavior is critical so very because otherwise we're showing kids that once you're an adult, then you can do whatever you want and it doesn't matter, and to an extent, you can, but you can't get things done. So if we're telling our kids they can't get things done, if they're on their phone. All the time, we sort of need to model that.

JoAnn Schauf: 20:03

Oh, absolutely. So I think there's a few more things getting back to the beginning of school that we can really help our children do, and one is to, in the United States, kids get their schedule before school starts, so they know what classes they have, they know what rooms they're in, they know who their teacher is going to be. And of course, they can text their friends or chat with their friends and see who's in their class. Is that how it works in England?

Rachel Richards: 20:28

I Yes, I don't think they get it very early. I think quite often it happens just before they turn up at school. Right again, it's going to vary country to

JoAnn Schauf: 20:38

country, but what we want is, we want them to either visualize walking to those classes, who they're going to eat lunch with, who they're going to meet, you know, in the morning, before school starts, who they're going to hang out with, so that they've got a social connection and a sense of belonging. And that's important for them to really know that they're going to fit. You know, there's someone that cares about them. They're people that they care about that they want to hang out with. Okay, so that's a really important thing in the states that only private schools require kids to wear uniforms some public schools, but mostly not. And so for kids to understand what that dress code is, and they can look that up online and make sure that they're wearing the right things. And if they're one of those kids that gets to go shopping for new clothes, then they, they need to do that. But again, it's the parents saying, hey, look up the dress code and tell, tell, tell you and tell me what we need to get for you. Oh,

Rachel Richards: 21:33

we have had such problems with that, though, because we've, we've, I do that. And then they, look at the dress code, and it says, Oh, the skirt has to be this length. And so we go with that. They turn up at school and they don't enforce any of it, and my child comes home saying, I feel like a nun because my skirt is below my knee, and everyone else is wearing something that is basically just covering their crotch. And it's so frustrating. So I just a warning that, you know, there's an element of, I think one thing is to speak to parents of kids who are older in that school to get the lowdown. Like, don't buy the coat, because the school, the school, will say what the coach should be, and then they'll never want that coat, and you've wasted money. So I, you know, for me, it's holding off a bit on that stuff,

JoAnn Schauf: 22:19

yeah, and when they come home so disappointed like that. I mean, we really have to be empathetic and just oh my gosh, I'm so sorry that happened to you. I wish that hadn't been your day, so that they know that we understand them for sure. But it is very difficult when you're trying to teach them to be a rule follower and the people laying down the rules are not following them or not enforcing them. It's really frustrating.

Rachel Richards: 22:40

And I love the point that you've just made, is that because as a parent, when your kid comes home and says, you know, got the wrong link, skirt and and you feel defensive. I mean, I Well, that's what it says in the rules. And I love your point that actually what you should do is just go. I'm really sorry that it felt like that. And it's a pity that it's not reinforced so that you you would feel normal, rather than be made to feel like the outsider.

JoAnn Schauf: 23:05

Yeah, because, I mean, when we empathize with them, they know, hey, we get it. And that's all about that relationship building that is so important for

Rachel Richards: 23:14

all about that. I love that, and we've talked about sort of those things. One of the points that you made, as well, was about friendships. And I think one of the things that I found really genuinely hardest, and I talking to other parents, it also was incredibly hard, was the friendship situation. And I've done an episode on this about these girl friendships, particularly, which can be fraught very, very difficult. And I know that at break times, if they didn't have a kind of group of friends that they felt safe with, or at least one friend, it felt very, very unsafe. And so it's great for them to have friends before they turn up or know who they would go and hang out with. Do you have any suggestions for parents about how we can prepare kids for you know how to go in and just figure out who your friends are going to be, or how to deal with that when they first turn up?

JoAnn Schauf: 24:12

Well, I think one of the one of the best things we can teach our kids is to be the inviter to say, hey, let's do this, you know, so you're not waiting to be asked. You're the inviter, so that's more of a leadership role for the kid, for the child, and also embracing new kids and saying, Hey, I know you're new. Will you eat lunch with me today, just to help that child feel better, and that that also gives them a role and a purpose, where they're not standing around waiting, but when they have friends that they can call and say, Hey, let's let's do this together, they can do the invitation. It makes a big difference. And it also for them, it puts a little notch in their confidence belt. Absolutely. Yeah.

Rachel Richards: 24:53

And in terms of other sort of routines and habits, one thing I learned with my daughter when she first started school was. So that that whole routine that you've talked about, which is she comes home from school, how does her homework get done? And I made her leave all her electronics on the table in the kitchen, so that she could go and do homework and she could come back to them. Are there other key things that you think parents would would be it would really help parents in this sort of transition, not necessarily to school, just ways in which we can help ourselves with that transition.

Unknown: 25:25

I think one of

JoAnn Schauf: 25:26

the one of the things that can really be helpful is is not to pepper them with 1000 questions, because we are so curious about how their day went and if they got that grade corrected from their teacher, and if they're there did make the honor roll if they're gonna get to go on the field trip. I mean, we just have a zillion questions, right? And so one of the things that kids will do when we ask questions like, did you? Didn't you? Are you? Have you? We get answers exactly like the questions form, yes, no or shrug. And so when we think about forming questions that are open ended questions, tell me about the experience when you asked your teacher to change the grade. You're asking for a conversation. You're not asking for data. And so the formulation of questions is really important for parents. So when all the open ended questions are like, gosh, I was wondering what your what happened with your friend at lunch? Because yesterday they didn't save you a place. How did it go today? So you're giving them an opportunity to tell you that their story, and that's what

Unknown: 26:34

you want, and not jumping in with advice, no. And that's the thing is like

JoAnn Schauf: 26:40

when they are telling their story, we, you know, we really feel that we have, like, this head of knowledge, right? We've got it on and we've got it on tight, and we want to give it to our children, but what we really want to do, what is better to do, is to help them be the solvers of their own problem. So, you know, they they didn't feel they were treated fairly by their teacher, right? This happens all the time. She picked on me. She doesn't like me, and so when we say, Tell me what happened and tell me what you can do about it, you know? So maybe, in fact, their teachers on their case because they're constantly chit chatting with the person next to them, or they're dropping things on the floor, whatever they're doing. Okay, so what can you do to make that relationship with your teacher better? Because we can say, I'm going to call that teacher, I'm going to have a meeting with that teacher, that teacher's mean and unfair and all that kind of stuff. But what really needs to happen is we need to teach our children to advocate for themselves, that they can solve that problem, and sometimes the teacher really doesn't like them, and there's nothing they can do that does happen, you know? So then we just have to say, yeah, that stinks. That really stinks. I get it, but we can't change it. So how can you, how can you get through it?

Rachel Richards: 27:59

I'm really interested that you brought that up, because we seem to have a lot of problems in schools here in the UK with where teachers feel that the behavior of kids has deteriorated quite dramatically, and people are trying to sort of figure out what's going on. Because I think it's really complicated. Some of it's locked down. Some of it's to do with, you know, not teaching our kids to self advocate and and the kids just, I don't know. So I'm just curious. I mean, have you seen, have you been hearing much about it? Are you when you're sort of counseling parents and counseling kids? Are they often saying, well, the teacher's picking on me and what's

Unknown: 28:40

going on?

JoAnn Schauf: 28:41

Well, the same thing that you said. I mean, there all my all my friends that are still in education are talking about it is so much harder to engage kids in school that they they don't want to be there, they don't want to cooperate. They'll do things to be disruptive and so forth. And so they go to great lengths to help them engage and help them participate and help them learn. And it is very difficult. It is very difficult. And I think the pandemic was not helpful because kids were away from school. Many of them were away from school for a long time. And so, you know, when we have this habit of we get up, we go to school, we come home, we go to bed, we get up, we go to school, and we have that habit, and then it's totally interrupted. You know, it's very difficult for children to get back on that bandwagon when they are not thinking that learning how to turn a decimal into a fraction is ever going to be helpful, yeah. And I think, am I ever going to need this?

Rachel Richards: 29:39

No. And coming back to the whole question of habits and routine and and this is something I've covered so many times. It's so important because then every time we have to think about something, it puts a barrier in the way about actually doing what we should be doing. And I can see, I think you're spot on. It's just such an important point that that habit of just turning up to school and not things. Talking about it right?

JoAnn Schauf: 30:02

Would have been challenged. It is okay for parents to tell kids, you know we you just have to. I know you don't like it. I know it's not comfortable. I know you wish you didn't have to, but you must. Yeah, yeah. And that is also a life lesson, because look at all the things you and I have to do, that we must do as an adult, and that's just the way it is. And so for kids to have to experience that, it's a pretty big scoop of reality, but it's still reality. Yeah,

Unknown: 30:30

yeah. Joan,

Rachel Richards: 30:32

what a great conversation. It's very interesting. I've learned a lot. Thank you so much. Is there? You know, people want to buy your book or they want to come and find you. What's the best way for them to reach you?

JoAnn Schauf: 30:46

So they can reach me at the name of my company is your tween and you. And they can go on Amazon to find the book Loving The Alien, how to parent your tween. It's not complicated at all. They could also just email me, Joanne, at your tweenanu.com

Rachel Richards: 31:04

Fantastic. I'll put that in the podcast notes as well.

JoAnn Schauf: 31:08

All right. Thanks so much pleasure being on your show and meeting you. You too.

Rachel Richards: 31:12

Thank you so much. That was Joan shelf of your tween and you. If you found this episode helpful, why not share it with at least one person? Hit subscribe or go to my website, where you can search all the old episodes using keywords at www teenagersuntangled com, you can also leave a review there or message me. My email address is teenagersuntangled@gmail.com That's it for now. Have A great week. You