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Fit, Fueled, And Busy - a podcast for ambitious women juggling life, family, and fitness
Episode 78: Diet vs. Lifestyle - Coaches' Perspectives
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Have you ever wondered why diets never seem to stick? In this episode, the Couture Coaches discuss the critical differences between being on a diet and adopting a new lifestyle. The coaches share their personal journeys and how they transitioned from dieting mindsets to sustainable, healthy relationships with food and exercise.
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Transitioning to a Healthy Lifestyle
Speaker 1Well , hi everyone , it's Coach Jo . Welcome to today's podcast . Today we have a panel discussion of our coaches and we are going to be talking about the difference between being on a diet and adopting a new lifestyle , and why it's important . I think lifestyle is a real buzzword right now in the dieting industry . Even the most restrictive , crazy diets talk about it being a lifestyle . Even Octavia , which is like an 800 calorie a day shake program , I think , markets itself as a lifestyle . So we have several of our amazing coaches on today's podcast , and so I am going to invite them to introduce themselves and then tell us a little bit about what their lifestyle was before I'm going to say they found their way to the metabolism boosting , preserving way of structuring their nutrition and exercise and mindset as well . So , jess , do you want to go first ? Jess is our head fitness and nutrition coach . So , jess , do you want to do a little introduction and then share what life was like before couture coaching ?
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely . Hi everyone . Hi Joe , thanks for having us on tonight . So , like Joe said , I'm the head fitness and nutrition coach at couture coaching and I actually joined couture as a client back in I think it was April of 2022 . So I've been with couture for some time now , turned coach that fall and have been coaching ever since . It's awesome , absolutely love it .
Speaker 2Before I joined Couture as a client , I was really that person who went to the gym , was always active , had kind of done everything from CrossFit to different types of challenges . I did different workout programs , things like that Loved working out , always stayed very active , but my nutrition was all over the place . I was definitely someone who never knew how much to eat or of what , and ended up after I became a client , of which we're realizing that I very much was an overeater and needed to kind of rein that in and understand what I needed to fuel my body for my workouts and my physique goals . So that's kind of who I was , and before joining , my lifestyle was definitely the active lifestyle , did not pay any attention to what I was eating . I have since learned that you cannot out exercise a bad diet .
Speaker 1Great , leanne , do you want to go next and introduce yourself ?
Speaker 3great , leanne , do you want to go next and introduce yourself ? Sure so , hi everyone , I'm coach Leanne . So when I first came to couture , I was I would well , I'd say probably 90 cardio , 10 strength training . But I actually had come thinking that I had a good idea of what was quote , unquote , healthy and I had a general baseline of like , okay , carbs , nutrition , fats , but like intention behind it . So , okay , I guess joining Couture was like a game changer for me , because I had , when I joined Couture , I had just had knee surgery and I I everything that I had tried before , even trying to get back into running again , like nothing was working . I blamed it on everyone saying like , oh well , once you get over 30 , like you , just nothing works anymore and you just have to do like , even more cardio . You have to . I don't know .
Speaker 3You know all the crazy stuff that's out there in society was basically the exercise portion of it and almost severe dieting . Like for breakfast I was eating like two eggs , for lunch I was maybe eating a salad or or , on a good day , like a sandwich , and then , you know , something small , restrictive for dinner as well , while also trying to run , really pounding on my knee , which I really shouldn't have been . Making the focus towards the intentional exercise with strength training and not having all the pounding and pounding and pounding on my joints and wondering why I was hurting so much , and combining that with the intentional nutrition piece was really for me a game changer . So before my life before couture was I would describe as the scattered exerciser I guess you could say , where you know you think you're doing everything right , but then you're like aimlessly trying everything .
Speaker 3And then couture led me to a lot more intentions behind exercise . And now my body's I don't hurt every morning when I wake up , so that's good . And now when I do cardio , it's not punishment , I actually enjoy it . I feel like it's an enjoyable activity for me . If I wanted to go and run with my dogs , I can go and run with my dogs and it's a good experience for me now . So , anyways , that's where I came from and that's how I came to couture , but it's just been instrumental for me and basically how I've reshaped my lifestyle , being a big keyword because of the exercise and nutrition combined , making it something that I realized I was put a fit a square peg into a round hole , but it obviously wasn't realistic for the rest of my life as well .
Speaker 1So that's a little bit about me so it sounds like your lifestyle in terms of weight management was lots of cardio , but maybe not all that consistent , because it sounds like it was kind of painful .
Speaker 3It was consistently painful .
Speaker 1Yes , and then restrictive eating .
Speaker 3Yes , very restrictive , yes .
Speaker 1Coach Katie , can you introduce yourself and tell us what your lifestyle was pre-couture ?
Speaker 4Yeah , hey , I'm Coach Katie . This is a very sentimental time for me because this is about the two-year anniversary of when I became a client and then eventually turned coach , and so I always am reflecting a lot about how my life is different . And so it's funny , I know , joe , and I still laugh . When I first came to couture , I was convinced that I was some unique unicorn .
Speaker 4There was something very much wrong with me . I had been seeing a functional doctor to try to , you know , get blood work , to try to understand why I just like , can't get rid of this weight , even though I am eating quote unquote healthy . I'm , you know , working out , I think I'm doing all of the right things . And she led me to believe I was a sugar burner , which , joe and I still don't quite know what that was supposed to mean . I'd recommended , you know , like a keto lifestyle or whatever . And so , you know , I feel like I'm someone that give me a plan and like I can , I can do it , I can execute on it , and so , you know , I was doing that but wasn't really seeing the results I wanted . I also , I would say I'm not a stranger to the gym I've been lifting for the last 15 years , but kind of aimlessly kind of to Leanne's point without intention or without maybe knowing how to challenge myself , and also always kind of getting distracted by you know kind of the latest fads and you know special Instagram workouts to lose your lower belly pooch or something like that . Instagram workouts to lose your lower belly pooch or something like that .
Speaker 4So I guess , just when I think about my life as like an adult woman , it was just this kind of 12 month cycle of feeling bloated and gross in January and February after the holidays , and then doing some nutrition or fitness workout thing around March , april , may , having some short-term results , feeling good about it , and then kind of slipping back into you know old ways , so that by next January and February I was like stuck in the same position . And so I came to couture because I felt like I needed the accountability and kind of the mindset side of things . I felt like I think , joe , you put it great , like to . I think , joe , you put it great like to get different results .
Speaker 4You have to do something differently , and so clearly , being left to my own devices , as for the last 15 years , wasn't working , and so I'm just absolutely thrilled with where my life has gone these last two years and being able to tackle things that I didn't even know needed tackling , and being able to work on so much more than just like the you know , food and fitness side of things , but also really just transforming my mindset and how I also kind of speak to myself , and that has really , I think , made it . What's a lifestyle is that it's everything about how I move through the world is different now because of how I kind of view things , and it isn't that my life is about food and fitness now . It's that I cherish my life and so I find better ways to make the food and fitness fit into that .
Speaker 1Yeah , great , okay , so lifestyle before sounds like once a year efforts based on kind of the latest flavor of the year . Yeah , okay , okay . And then maybe well-intentioned , well-aimed , but not super consistent for the rest of the year . Yeah , and fairly frustrated . Very desperate , okay . Thank you , coach Julieie . Do you want to go next ?
Speaker 5sure I came to couture as a client in fall of 2021 I think I was in my I'll be 50 in september , so mid to late 40s at that point and I've been a long distance runner since I was 13 . So tons of cardio , very much a gym person , pretty aware of nutrition , and I knew what protein was . I knew all that stuff had done . I was that person who was really good Monday through Friday and , based on my level of activity , I could do whatever I wanted on the weekends and be fine . You know I'd lose two pounds all week and then gain it back over the weekend , but stay steady and , honestly , I could out exercise my diet the extent I up until that point and I kind of hit a wall where suddenly the stuff that had been working for years was no longer working .
Speaker 5I slowly just put on a little bit of weight and did a lot of travel that year post COVID , all that stuff and it kind of kind of caught up with me and I am a person I , like somebody else mentioned , I like a plan , I can follow a plan , I like accountability and I had lifted weights before , but never with that as my primary . I'd always been like group weight lifting like Orange Theory or F45 or that kind of thing I was open to . The weightlifting Like that didn't seem super daunting and frankly , at my age I was happy for someone to tell me I didn't have to run six miles a day anymore . So it was kind of a switch for me as far as the type of exercise Never had problem doing the exercise I've always been a regular but it was just the type and then , yeah , I probably also chronically under eight for the level of activity I did . It didn't seem to me like I was under eating . But when you put it once I put it down on paper and started actually tracking , it was definitely too little for the what I was asking my body to do on a daily basis .
Speaker 5I was that person who would work out like I'd go to Pilates and then I'd run and then I'd go to Orange Dairy or something . I had too much time on my hands too . I've had some other issues . I think I was . I was doing a lot of escapism in the gym .
Speaker 5So for a lot of reasons that helped me get at least having putting pen to paper or computer or whatever to track exactly what I was eating . I also was probably consuming too many of my carbs in the form of wine , which , became older I got , was a little more counterproductive . So just a lot of . I mean like everything . It's education , it's , and I'm a I like to learn , so I liked that part of it . It made sense to me , you know , is do this , do this and this will happen , and then when you actually see it , if you're compliant , it works . So yeah , and so I agreed to do the coaching because I kind of I had reached my goal , but I wanted something to kind of keep me from going back down the path that had led me here before .
Speaker 1So it kind of keeps me accountable , yeah , so you were kind of like the classic cardio queen calorie restrictor during the week and then calorie rollercoaster on the weekend was how you managed .
Speaker 5I earned it . I earned my weekend .
Speaker 1Yeah , and I remember when we talked to you , I was like , well , I think what we need to do is actually bring your calories up during the week . So yeah , it's like well .
Speaker 5I think what we need to do is actually bring your calories up during the week . So , yeah , and that was fun , man , that was , that was there's something you know . When you got up to that point , you're like , oh my God , I had no idea what I forgot , yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , okay , great Okay . So Hillary was not a client before she became a coach .
Speaker 6So , hillary , do you want to introduce yourself ? Yeah , absolutely . Hey , I am Hillary . Probably like a lot of us , I was a kind of cardio queen and then probably all through college and then went through , you know , going out of . I was busy all through high school and athlete and went to college with unlimited food funds , blew up and became kind of the cardio queen and then quickly out of college became a CrossFitter and kind of swaying , you know restricted , went through the restricted eating and then paleo and then back to cardio . I was definitely restricted but I went through a IVF journey that was very lengthy and really kind of gave me my passion into .
Speaker 6So I come from a different perspective in that I feel very lucky that I've never been overweight . I've never . You know , I get a lot of questions on , like how do you find motivation ? I've
Life of Consistency and Empowerment
Speaker 6never stopped . I went into labor with one of my kids , basically like at the gym . Like that morning I went into labor with one of my kids , basically like at the gym . Like that morning I went to work out . I'm very consistent . It's just as easy for me as brushing my teeth .
Speaker 6The gym is just part of my day-to-day where I find my passion is sharing my passion with women and making sure that you know food is not something to be scared of . Making sure that food is not something to be scared of , that that look that most of us are going for is going to be found in food . And , more importantly , lifting weights . Again , I come from a different thing that I out oh my God , I can lift more than the bar . Or oh my gosh , I would have never guessed .
Speaker 6When you said that I needed to eat a hundred grams of protein , I thought you were crazy in the head and then three months later , that seems like I can get a hundred grams of protein before 2 PM , you know . So I enjoy kind of the mental aspect of it and I really just enjoy watching women push themselves to boundaries that they could have never thought they would have ever been able to in a million years . So that's kind of my background . I've just been lucky enough to really kind of build my own life around the fact that I have two little girls that I want to make good examples for , and my whole thing is I just want women to know that they are dad A's and that we can always eat more and lift more than we ever give ourselves credit for . So that's kind of that's kind of my gig , that's what fuels me .
Speaker 1Well , lifestyle to you , to me , for you sounds like you .
Speaker 6Just you love working out , you're very active . Lifestyle to me is is is consistency . It is doing it day in and day out . It is . You know , am I perfect A hundred percent ? No , but I don't . Yeah , it's consistency . It's moving every day , no matter what it's . You know getting those walks in , no matter how busy you are .
Speaker 1Yeah , Okay , sounds great . So , like I said before , almost every diet out there now markets itself as a lifestyle . Definitely , you know a buzzword , and our goal and mission is to get women off of fad diets and into a sustainable , healthy lifestyle that keeps their metabolism in a healthy spot . Any diet out there the most restrictive diet will call itself a lifestyle . So and I guess I will I will share my lifestyle . Before finding my way .
Speaker 1Before founding long before founding , couture was , I was a religious reader of shape magazine , probably any fad diet . I could tell you what the components of it were . I tried just about everything I didn't do , whole 30 . There were some . What there were paleo I never did . But keto , everything that was under the sun I had tried at some point .
Speaker 1But there was no consistency in nutrition and , frankly , like when I was doing those fad diets , I didn't have a lot of energy for working out . I viewed myself as working out but looking back at it , I mean I met a friend a couple times a week to go jogging but there just was not much consistency and kind of like Katie mentioned , like just cycling on and off fad diets . I was definitely either on the wagon or off the wagon and just not a lot of consistency , despite my best intentions . So my lifestyle looks very different now , which , as Hillary alluded to , is just like a lot more consistency with nutrition and exercise , and have a better sense of what to do now .
Building Habits for a Healthy Lifestyle
Speaker 1But let's , let's talk about what the difference is between a dieting mindset and a lifestyle mindset , like what really is the difference between being on a diet and adopting a new lifestyle . Jess , do you want to kick off this part of the discussion ?
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely so similar to kind of what you were talking about , joe , of trying kind of everything under the sun . I'd also done that initially . You know , when you're trying to figure out like what am I supposed to do ? I have these goals in mind , I'm like not happy with my body , you know , trying like 21 day fix or a six week challenge or things like that . I think that's very much like a diet mindset of you have something that's starting on Monday and that's going to go for six weeks and then at the end of that I'm going to hit my goal and then go back to what I was doing before . So I would go into these things of like , okay , it's the weekend , I am going to order a pizza and go get Dairy Queen and eat all of the stuff that I know I'm not going to be able to eat when I go on this six week challenge , because I can do that afterwards , because then I'm going to be where I want to be at the end of that .
Speaker 2And it took a really long time and it's very easy , I think , to slip back into that mindset to realize that that's a diet mindset , a lifestyle mindset is kind of like what Hillary was saying , of the not being afraid of food , like being able to have a positive relationship with it , being able to include everything that you want to have , but knowing , like quantities and how it fits within what your body needs , understanding your own hunger and fullness cues and really implementing it , not for six days , six weeks or six months , but truly your entire life . I tell clients all the time we don't have an end date for this program . We may work together for a finite amount of time , but everything that we're putting into practice now is something that you will continue on for the rest of your life . This is , this is building your new life . There's , there's no end date .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think a really good point you make is that there , when you're on a diet , there's a definite timeline and you're going to do something , probably pretty restrictive or maybe outside of what you're doing day to day , to get results , but it's only for a finite period of time and usually a lot of distress and desperation and panicking about whether it's going to work within that timeline .
Speaker 1But what we try to tell clients is like there's no race , there's no . You might have like an event or something that you want to look a particular way for , but like it's not , like we're , you know you're done with this after six weeks . Even if you're done with a particular type of dieting cycle or maybe nutrition cycle that we're putting you through , you're certainly not going to keep your results if you don't keep up certain habits . So there is no race , there is no timeline , there's no six week challenge . These are habits that you are going to implement in one way or another for the rest of your life If you want to have and keep your results . Other thoughts about the difference between like a diet and lifestyle mentality slash outlook , what the difference is between the two .
Speaker 6Yeah , joe , I think I think what you just said is habits . It is simply carving out time , no matter what , to get that 20 minute walk in , or I think a lot of us on here , I know we all have these walking pads now and sometimes it's not possible to get outside , you know , whether it be the weather or rain , or , you know , maybe you don't feel comfortable , the weather , the time change , you know , but you can always hop on your walking pad . I know I have little kids and it's not practical anymore . They're in that awkward stage where they won't necessarily stay in the stroller but if they tried to walk themselves , a 20 minute would walk , would turn into an hour and a half walk . So this walking pad has saved my life . So I think , whether it's exercise or steps or a habit , could just be like no matter what , I could have three pieces of pizza , but I'm going to have green beans on the side , or I'm going to have a salad on the side .
Speaker 6Just making small little habits . Whatever you choose to do , just make it kind of a non-negotiable . You know , and I really do I often compare it to brushing your teeth or washing your face , like it's one of those things and and I maybe it's because I get a lot of time like where do you get the motivation ? Or where do you ? You maybe it's because I get a lot of time , like , where do you get the motivation ? Or where do you , you know , don't you get bored ? And it's like , yeah , don't you get tired of brushing your teeth two times a day ? You've been doing it for literally your entire life . We probably should be bored of brushing our teeth or washing our hair or , you know , our face every day , but it's something you , just you , naturally do . End of story .
Speaker 6I'll tell you one of mine that's really weird is protein . So even if I'm going to have , I'll have . Like , if I'm craving cookies , I won't go out . If I want Oreos , I'm going to have the Oreos . But I'll have like two pieces of deli turkey meat and have a little bit of protein with it . And I realized that sounds absolutely insane . But I try to have just a little bit of protein with whatever I'm gonna eat . That is just a habit of mine . So I would say the word habit .
Speaker 1Yeah , and that is if you read any or study anything about habits . That's the benefit of habits is they are automated behaviors . You're not putting the thought , work or energy into . Am I gonna do this or do I feel like doing this , or is this something what I want to do and you just do it because it's it's what you do ? I think a key to that also is that maybe why bad diets don't turn into habits is they're not particularly sustainable , so it's hard to implement a habit . That is something that would be hard to do for the rest of your life , whether that be a calorie restriction or cutting out an entire food group , things like that . Any other thoughts you know sitting here today , based on what life is like for you now , maybe what you thought lifestyle meant before and what it means to you now ?
Speaker 4Katie , why ?
Speaker 1don't you go and then Leanne , you thought lifestyle meant before and what it means to you now , katie . Yeah , okay , go ahead , katie why don't you go and then Leanne ?
Speaker 4Well , I kind of wanted to piggyback off the habit idea . So I think when I think about diet , right , it was this short term thing that had like a very specific result I think that I was going after . And what I've noticed more with lifestyle is that it's more action based and just kind of I know that long term , if I continue those actions , the results will come . So I would say I'm motivated more by like the actionable behaviors , the habits and like it's kind of field of dreams . If you build it , you know they will come , the results will come . And so I think you know when I think about a diet , right , it was okay I'm going to do this six weeks super restrictive thing . And one little slip up I'd be like , okay , I'll restart next Monday . And so it was always this like restarting and kind of .
Speaker 4I think about it as like a lack of resilience to little mess ups , right . So I view a lifestyle as one meal , one weekend , one trip honestly , one month even isn't going to be the end of the world or undo all of my results . Right , I have the like , the knowledge , the know-how , I know the behaviors , right , I know how to like get things back in check and I no longer feel derailed and defeated when one thing doesn't maybe go the exact way that I hoped . I think you know , with lifestyle like that doesn't happen overnight , right , that takes months of . You know little wins , little victories where you kind of came up against a little challenge and you went through it right , and you came out on the other side .
Speaker 4And so I think if you just start stacking those little wins long enough , right , it turns into a lifestyle that is resilient your body becomes more resilient , right . A lifestyle that is resilient , your body becomes more resilient , right . I used to have wild scale fluctuations after trips because I also would overindulge and do all of these things . Now I indulge some , but not as much , and I still do those actionable habit behaviors . I still try to get steps in . I go to the gym because it feels good and when I come back my scale weights up a little bit and then it comes right back down . So my mindset's resilient , my body's resilient , and so I think that just builds more and more positive momentum into the lifestyle . I would never want to go back because it just didn't feel as good .
Speaker 1Yeah , really good points . Leanne , you have thoughts on this ?
Speaker 3Yeah . So Katie actually said majority majority of what I was gonna mention , so I can resonate a lot with that . But I will say that being on a diet , my idea . If you were to ask me that two years ago , it would have been completely different than what it is now . So totally agree with going into the diet .
Speaker 3It needs to be short-term , but in terms of adapting a new lifestyle , to me it's nice to have a comfort with that lifestyle , knowing that once you're done with the diet , there's no question mark for like what's next . So even if someone did have substantial weight loss from doing like keto , so what ? So are you going to go the rest of your life without eating carbs and then are going to send yourself into it ? So for me , adopting a new lifestyle helps embrace , like okay , so now I know what to do , now that I've reached my goals and you know our goals will always evolve over time , I think . But adapting the new lifestyle with pieces can support sustainability , like that's a great place to be .
Speaker 3And honestly , two years ago for me , like , if you were to ask me what a diet is , I'd be like well , I don't know . Like take away another slice of bread , but there was no like end game . I resonate with Julie as well . I would definitely be like very good during the week and then weekends be like live it up , whatever , but anyway . So I think lifestyle gives people a good peace of mind on where to go after the diet is over , so that way you can know where what to do after . Yeah .
Speaker 1I think what you're saying is what comes after weight loss schools , as people are dieting because they have a weight loss goal , but that there is a very much a structured step . So my next question is how did the transition happen for you ? So someone listening to this podcast might think , oh , I'm just going to join couture and you know , a weekend like I , I'm , I'm , I've adopted it in your lifestyle , I'm , I'm out of the dieting mentality . Did it happen like that for any of you ? I'm laughing , jess . Do you want to go first on this ?
Speaker 2That's a hard question . It's still something that I have to be really conscious of every single day . So it was , you know , when I started with couture as a client , I got my plan , which , you know , any no plan is going to work unless you actually stick to it . So I think you go into it thinking , okay , this is great , I'm motivated , this is what I need . A coach is telling me what to do and you have this all this momentum , and then it kind of starts to wane a bit and then you have to start relying on discipline and hopefully by then , like habits kick in and you have your non-negotiables and you know , then you practice the consistency there . But it's , it's hard .
Speaker 2You know , it's something that I think takes practice , like a lot of practice over a long amount of time . I was actually just had posted recently on social media about , you know , still working on it and changes , and you know my goals for my physique and how I want to feel and just my health and wellness in general . Like is never ending and I have to be really conscious of that every day . And it doesn't mean that every day is perfect . And you know there have been times where , yeah , my weight has gone up and my nutrition has kind of fallen to the wayside , or maybe I haven't done my workouts as consistently as I wanted to . But then continuing forward and relying on those habits and practicing that every single day , and that's that compilation of having all of this forward momentum over a long period of time and always , always , just practicing , I think is really what what it takes to implement and keep that lifestyle that you're building .
Speaker 1Would you say that there ? What were signs that you had kind of made the transition from thinking of all of this as a diet to a new lifestyle ?
Speaker 2Yeah , that's a good question and I think maybe now my answer would have would be different than it was , even like after having gone through my first round of couture as a client
Overcoming Diet Mentality
Speaker 2. I think for me personally , it stopped being a diet and started being a lifestyle , when I , like , had built a better relationship with food . I wasn't like super restrictive of choices , I was allowing myself to have a little more food freedom than I had previously . I was definitely , especially because I came in as an overeater . I was very much like if I was restricting something , I just had this like very emotional reaction and I've talked a little bit about this before , but it was something that you know , I don't know where it came from or what happened in my life to get me to that point , but I think I've always used food as like a coping mechanism , whether it's boredom , stress , emotion , whatever , and so having restricting things would kind of stir up this emotional response , and so I think it was for me turning from a diet to a lifestyle when I not just stopped kind of having that but could be more conscious of it , of the okay , am I actually hungry ? Is this an actual hunger cue , or am I having an emotional moment where I just want to eat and if I do like , am I going to allow that for myself ? And just kind of being more aware of the situation versus just kind of either going forward or not being being conscious . I think that's one part .
Speaker 2Also , I think another piece was around , just like my relationship with , like my body and my body image too , because , like someone had mentioned before , like diets , you have this oh , is you Katie I see you nodding too , cause I think you can relate to this where you have that like image in your head of I'm going to do this diet and I'm going to look this way and you know it just doesn't work that way .
Speaker 2I think , even if you do end up , you know , hitting a number or you are in a size that you had been striving for , it's still just like , without having this be this lifestyle piece and the feel good and the mindset component of it , it just it doesn't . You just don't feel like you've achieved . Achieved that , I think . And I think it's just this diet mentality that you don't end up getting what you want when you still have that mindset that it's a diet . So I think , really repairing my relationship with my body image and how I talk to myself and feel about myself and really kind of going into every day like talking positively to myself , like we say the things to ourselves that we would never say to somebody else , and really practicing flipping that script has helped me a lot in transitioning it from diet mentality to lifestyle .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think one point you make is really good is not everyone , but I know I've been guilty of this . You know , when you're definitely in that diet mode is the goalposts are always changing you . Maybe you meet one , you know what you think would be your ideal or whatever , and then , oh , now it's you want it to be better or different , and so it's like you never win , which can be really miserable . Okay , anyone else want to talk about how the transition went for them ? Katie , you look like you're eager to talk about this .
Speaker 4Yeah , so I actually I kind of think I have like two ways that I knew it had become a lifestyle , and so one I think has to do with the body image element that Jess was just talking about , is that sometimes I feel like , even as a , as a coach , I need to constantly have a different aesthetic goal or some sort of new goal for my body . And even over the last three or six months , I'm like you can live in maintenance , like you can not necessarily have these goals , and I think what's actually been the most empowering part is that I feel like I have a lot more like agency in these choices . It's not that I need to be chasing some ideal or whatever , but like I also now have the information of what it would take to achieve certain aesthetics . So I think I'm someone that I scroll Instagram all the time . I see all of these just carved physiques , these women with just this like small waist , toned abs and great glutes , and I sit there and I and , and and .
Speaker 4Now , instead of being like , oh , I'm going to do a six week challenge to try to get that , I'm like that girl has worked hard to kind of achieve those results and I'm like , okay , do I do ? I want to do that Right ? Is that something that I want to ? You know , do the lifestyle that it would take to maintain , and some days I say yes and some days I say no . I feel a lot more in control of those choices and a lot more like informed rather than just maybe what like society is kind of trying to tell me .
Speaker 4And I feel like even one of my clients we had I had just this moment with her at like last fall where I asked her what her , what her goal was , what are we working towards , and she had just gotten out of an unhealthy relationship and she said I no longer feel like I just have to be smaller anymore . I mean , that meant so much for her in so many different dimensions of life . But she's chasing strong now and she's doing it in like a social class right . So she's not necessarily following our strength programming but like she knew what to look for in a program that was like aligned with kind of the lifestyle that we demonstrate , and so I think having seen that kind of experienced parts of it as a coach and then as a client and then also seeing that for my clients , has been absolutely just a fantastic thing to get to witness .
Speaker 1Yeah , you bring out something that I hadn't thought about really as a sign that maybe you've transitioned into a lifestyle which is
Redefining Health and Success
Speaker 1I know . A lot of our clients come to us and it's like I want to be this number on the scale or I have to lose this many pounds of body fat to be my healthiest and I think part of this has come from coaching is health doesn't necessarily look like the skinniest version of yourself , as long as your blood markers are good , you have a relatively healthy body composition , you're active , you're moving , you're eating well . That that is health . And I think as women somehow or maybe just some women it's just has been drilled into us that if we don't lose the extra five pounds , we're not being healthy . I have competed I've talked about that a lot before and I haven't competed in a few years .
Speaker 1So I don't look like I do when I'm competing . I'm probably healthier than I was then . But we get these senses of what , what our ideal body type is , and if we aren't there , then somehow we're not meeting a health standard or some other standard . But then when you pull back and look at like , oh , I have a very healthy lifestyle , I'm very active , I lift weights three to four times a week . I eat a great diet , I mean compared to the rest of Americans and so I am a healthy person . You know your goals can change from time to time , but it's you're doing these things regardless , not because you're going to get to your skinniest weight . So that has been a big switch for me .
Speaker 6I was going to say . I think some of my favorite times have been when my clients have called mercy on themselves , basically because I'm always , you know , like we can set big , achievable . You know I call them kind of like mini goals and then like , what's your big , huge , unachievable goal ? Y'all know me . I always say , like , give me a goal . Like , give me , how many pull ups do you want to do ? Or I want to curl 50 pounds ? Like don't , if you want to scale weight , that's totally fine , there's nothing wrong with that . I like to play the game of like , how much do you think this girl weighs you ? You would be shocked . So I love give me some type of something other than just the scale .
Speaker 6I still get goosebumps when I think of a client told me she hadn't traveled on a plane and it was her first time back at an in-person meeting , when she was like I traveled so easy . I put my luggage up by myself . I didn't have to ask except for help to put it up . I comfortably , like , got in and out of my seat . I made my buffet and I , like , knew to start with a protein , she knew how to make her plate . And she came back and she was like I don't care what the scale says Like I feel like a brand new human . She had this light bulb moment and it was to me the biggest win that she could have ever had . Comparing that and her very last trip , obviously pre-COVID , she was a totally different person and it didn't matter what the scale said . It didn't matter , you know , maybe she hadn't dropped the 50 pounds that she wanted , maybe she had dropped 20 pounds , but she was . Her whole experience was totally different than so .
Speaker 6When is the quote unquote diet over ? It's when you know your success may not be what you thought your success was when you were signing up for our program . It may be a thousand times better than what you thought it would be . Your whole life may have changed and you didn't even notice it and on paper you look like a failure . You know , if you would have come in 12 months we would have said I hate to tell you this , but you only lost 10 pounds . You would be furious with yourself . But in reality you know your entire life has changed . You have the confidence you never thought you would . You can move your own luggage like you never thought you could . She went to Paris and was like I used to have to like stop and take my feet , shoes off , and you know I walked like 20,000 steps , no big deal . I guess .
Speaker 6My point is you've got to zoom out and victories look different , and to me there's nothing better than when clients call their own BS and it's like I'm sleeping through the night . When did I sleep through the night ? You can't think of the last time that I did that . Or I have the confidence to do X , y and Z . That is so much better than this . 12 week I'm only going to eat whole foods and then on that 13th week I'm going to have McDonald's for breakfast , lunch and dinner , you know . So that's , I guess what we're talking about is
Embracing a Healthy Lifestyle Mindset
Speaker 6there .
Speaker 6It's not just an ending , it's your .
Speaker 6Your whole life has changed and I think the closer you become to making those habits you know I'm not saying you don't have to slip back , your weekends don't have to be perfect , your days don't have to be perfect , but each decision , each step on the right way makes it easier to just continue moving forward than slipping back .
Speaker 6And I think , when you look at it as a diet and you have such a quick timeline and it's only going to be this hard . You can go 100% , but then you fall back . But if you just continue that momentum and you know that there's not really an end in sight , there is no going backwards . You're just slowly making tiny steps forward , there is no sliding back . So all that to say , you know it doesn't necessarily you're not a failure because because you didn't maybe hit the big , huge end goal that you wanted . I think people get wrapped up into the freaking scale so often that we miss all the cool things that happen . It's , it's the emails that are like man , I played soccer with my kid for two hours in the backyard and I would have I would have normally sat in my hammock and just watched them play for 30 minutes . You know like it's those lifestyle changes that are so much better than the big stretch .
Speaker 1And what definite sign that you've transitioned out of the fad dieting mindset is letting go of the scale or not being quite so tied up with the scale .
Speaker 6A thousand percent and I think Katie said it earlier the stupid scale . The scale drives me up the wall , like if we could smash them all and go burn them . I know some of my clients hate when I say this , but I'm like you want the scale to move , let's go chop off your leg . I'm like , no , really , you want that scale to move so bad . Let's go chop off your leg and we'll lose 30 pounds . And then what happens ? You know , like , would that make you happy ? And they're like oh , I didn't think about that . No , it wouldn't . You'd be 30 pounds less and then we'd be out of leg . So let's forget about the scale and move on .
Speaker 6And often I've had , more often than not , people be like thank you for saying that . And I guess that's that so many of those quote unquote fad diets . That's all they have . That you know why . You know why those all point is like results not typical . You're not . You're not typical to lose 10 pounds because you're peeing it out . And so in two weeks you're going to be 10 pounds . You know , like that's all they have . That's all they have to ride on their coattails is because they got you to pee out 10 pounds and after that two weeks is up , you're going to gain that weight back . That's not what we do we . We want you to open your eyes and look at everything else and experience life , you know , without losing , without losing that , that 10 pounds , that's not what it's about .
Speaker 1Yeah , and we'll talk about that next , why this is so important , putting our coaches hat on and talk about clients who never get out of that mindset and those who do make the transition . But first , Leanne and Julie , anything to add on sort of how this transition went from you and for you and kind of what it looked like .
Speaker 5What it looked like . I think you guys have covered a lot . I mean , it's just an ongoing thing . I don't think it's just a suddenly it's a light bulb , switches and and maybe that's probably the best advice is not making sure clients know that and your time here is done and it doesn't mean now . You're never going to slip up again and you're never going to catch yourself suddenly thinking , oh , I've got a wedding in six weeks . We're all human and there's going to be times that you're going to fall back on and remind yourself that no , this is a lifestyle and I'm like the eating a loaf of French bread isn't going to set me back and I'm never coming back from that again .
Speaker 1So yeah , I think that what you point out getting rid of getting out of the all or nothing thinking you're always going to be intentional with your nutrition , your exercise , sort of intentionally getting movement . You don't have to be , but you just learn that that is a healthy lifestyle and hopefully you feel better doing that . So that's what you want to do , regardless of whether you go out for pizza on a Friday or something that you view as a slip Leanne . Any final thoughts on kind of the transition for you ?
Speaker 3Yeah , I would say it wasn't like one transition overnight for sure , but I would say changes slowly happened over time for me . But the biggest things that really let me know that the transition was happening along the way was my mindset . For sure . I still remember the coaching call I had with Joe where we talked about drinking and how I almost bragged about it but going hard on the weekends . I still remember what Joe said when she said well , it sounds like drinking is a form of entertainment for you and it was like like smacked in my face and so I was like , oh my God , so that was one where then that had been something I had worked on since and that obviously didn't happen overnight . But it was a big mindset realization piece there .
Transitioning to a Lifestyle Mindset
Speaker 3A lot of mindset transition for me has happened around just intention behind things . But I'm also someone who's pretty in tune with my body and how I feel . When you get so used to something for so long , you don't realize how miserable you actually were until you get a taste of the good life right which when you're actually feeling your body . For me , the biggest improvements I saw were like less pain in my joints and sleep . Those were the two biggest things for just being in tune with my body and , for me , those things I'm much more in tune with now than I was back then where , like , I had a certain tolerance built up that was like my baseline . But now I'm looking back and I'm like dang , that sucked , so that .
Speaker 3But the third thing I guess well , I guess maybe fourth would be my relationship with food was probably going to be the biggest thing , instead of just looking at a cookie and feeling guilty right away , just keeping it simply like the relationship with food and realizing where I was versus where I've come now . To me these things have evolved over time over the past two years and by all means I'm not perfect . Like there are still some days where I think all of us may even have some mindset like ooh , like our little voice comes in the back of our head just from like pattern thinking from years and years and years . But you know it's always a work in progress . But those are the biggest things for me that were signs that I've made a transition into more of a lifestyle , that sustainable for me , but definitely out of the whole diet thing for sure .
Speaker 1That . That brings another point that this is just a continuing journey . If anyone who has been subjected to diet culture like we're all a little bit warped to some extent . So this leads into the big topic .
Speaker 1So this is all wonderful , it's great to hear our stories , but I always tell our clients in our coaching calls being able to make this transition , getting out of dieting mindset it's strategic . You're going to have much better success if you can shift into what I call lifestyle thinking and out of diet culture and diet thinking . Your body is going to transform more . You're going to have much better adherence . So this is a strategy , not just something nice to talk about and hear about us all talking about . So I want to go through each of you and just putting your coaches hats on what you've seen , clients who haven't made the shift and clients who have in terms of their success rates and why this is good strategy to really work on getting out of the fad diet lifestyle . That's just going to be this thing that you do for six weeks . Jess , do you want to go first ?
Speaker 2Yeah , sure , I'll talk about a couple of thoughts that came to mind . So , for those that have made that shift from diet to lifestyle , I think it's reflective of a lot of what we've talked about . Like we see the relationship with food is improved . We see that the relationship with their bodies and body images have improved . I think to Hillary's point like their focus is much less on the scale . I also think that people that have really implemented this as a lifestyle really chase like that feeling of feeling really good . So that's that kind of that unexpected results that clients are getting is , yeah , maybe we didn't see the scale shift as much as we had initially planned . Or they come into the program thinking I'm going to lose 10 , 20 , 30 pounds , whatever the circumstances are . But then , after you know three , six , 12 months , they're like I feel better than I've ever felt , like I can go out to eat and have control and you know I can pivot when my schedule doesn't work or I miss a workout , I can do it later in the day . And it's really seeing the adoption of making it fit into life , because life is going to happen no matter what . And if you have that rigidity where you really can't like stick to a program unless everything falls into place , like it's never going to be a lifestyle . So being able to , I think , have that flexibility to make it work when life does happen . So I think those are a couple of indicators seeing that clients have adopted it into a lifestyle .
Speaker 2I think the complete opposite right is when they are still in that diet mentality . It's you know , you feel great , you see in your photos that you know your body is changing but the scale hasn't changed and that's what you're focused on . You know being really obsessive around that number . I think really just kind of opposite of what we were saying . I think the biggest one really is is that scale piece . Like they can talk week after week about feeling amazing , lifting heavier than they've ever lifted . People are complimenting them on their bodies and the changes and they look so good and they feel so good . But oh my gosh , the scale went up two pounds and it just throws all of that progress out the window . I think that's really , for me , the biggest indicator that I see with clients that we really need to focus , I think , on that mindset piece at that point and really looking at that zoomed out life of hey , look at everything and how far you've come . Why are we letting the scale be the reason that those accomplishments aren't worth celebrating anymore ?
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean , I think for clients that I've coached , that just cannot make the transition . It's a total distortion . They can't even see reality . The scale hasn't moved , well , no , but you've lost five inches off your waist . I would rather have that than the scale move and just a complete obsession . They can't see the changes in their pictures , they can't see when they're not adherent . It's just a complete distortion of reality and it never ends well .
Speaker 6Or the obsession to the macros , like I , you know , I think there are obviously certain personality traits there are . You know , some people love that rigid let me hit those numbers or at least get me close and some people it becomes an obsession , and an unhealthy obsession . And that goes for the scale , the macros . They're there for a guide and you have to be able to zoom out and say you know what ? I went out to eat last night and I can't imagine getting out of scale and weighing my nachos . And I've legitimately had a question like well , how am I supposed to know ? And I'm like you know what , If one meal on a Saturday night , it's not going to make or break you ? You got to look at the big picture . So just to kind of piggyback on Jess , I think , without a doubt , it's the people who cannot , for the life of them , let go of this scale and just break themselves up .
Speaker 6We've said this before . It's positivity and finding a goal , and can you flip that into something positive ? And again , I always like to say give me a win of the week . I don't care what it was , was it , you know ? Was it ? I did not feel like doing X , Y and Z and damn it . I did it anyways , was it ?
Speaker 6You know , somebody brought cake to the office and instead of having five slices , I had half a slice . You know , because to me a win isn't necessarily having zero , because and then all you did was think about it . You know , a win to me is I had half a slice , or I love frosting , so I just had a little bit of the corner frosting . What was your win ? But be able to verbalize that win and then give me something . That man , I wish I would have worked a little bit harder on this .
Speaker 6To me , the people who do the best are people who can see both sides and give me a true win and something . I didn't do that well on it , but I'm going to work on it that week . But I'll tell you what . The people who don't make it or who never do hit that goal , are the people who are constantly negative about themselves , about the program , about who . Just , I call them Eeyores , and we all have Eeyores . But you , those Eeyores , cannot you almost can't get out of your own way , I guess is the best way to put it .
Speaker 6And if you're going to commit to this program . We are all here as your individual coach , we are here in the podcast , we are here as the Facebook group . There are so many nets literally to catch you and to help you , but you can't be in your own way and that's what the people that I see fail are the people who can't get out of their own way . They won't be able to do it with a team of people . They won't be able to do it alone . They won't be able to do it .
Speaker 6You know , that's something that resides inside yourself . I can almost tell you within four to five weeks of working with somebody who's going to be successful and who isn't is going to be successful and who isn't , and it's those people who are willing to be . You know , change it up and just trust the process and let go a little bit and not be rigid and kind of go with the flow and say you know what ? I trust you and you know I didn't want to do this hard thing , but I went ahead and did it anyways , and you know what . You're right , everything is flat , but I'm going to continue to trust you . And you know what ? Oh my God , look two inches off my waist the next week . It's that teamwork and the positivity . But the people who can't get out of their own way , no matter what , are the people who aren't going to be successful .
Speaker 6That's what I see time and time again .
Speaker 1Yeah , a common theme of like rigidity and mind and belief .
Speaker 6Yeah , a hundred percent . And that's what I love about this program is there are so many tools that you don't get in a normal program , but you have to be willing to work the program . I think we've all talked about it . And another thing is this isn't a switch . There is so much support that comes through this program , but you still have to do the work and you have to be willing to do the work . At the end of the day , you're the only one that controls what goes through here and I was doing my mouth , I forgot this would be a podcast but you're the only one that you know controls what goes through your mouth , and that you're . You're walking and you're working out and the effort that you're going to be putting in and your choices day in and day out , and we're here for you . But ultimately , your attitude says a lot about it and and that is how I'm telling you I can see the personality traits from a mile away within four to five weeks , and I think all of us on this call can .
Speaker 1Leanne
Shifting From Diet to Lifestyle Mentality
Speaker 1thoughts . Why , like , moving from a dieting to lifestyle mindset is a good strategy ?
Speaker 3It's a good strategy because it allows you to remove your blinders of your expectations , because oftentimes when people have their blinders on that like numbers are the only important item or a timeline is the only important item you have to remove your blinders based on these expectations . It's important to have expectations , but realistic expectations , and why these are expectations . Where they came from . Is it because some magazine published that someone lost 30 pounds in 30 days , or what ? So the clients who've had the most success that I have coached have removed those blinders , who have been able to reach into their personal lives and they have counted their wins going to social events , traveling , not freaking out over the scale anymore so still , you know issues around the scale but then also realizing like the same realization that was made earlier , I think Katie mentioned about well , that girl works really hard for that body , I think just posted the other day we have to remove the mindset that our body is not like Amazon prime with a two day shipping delivery . Sorry , that just doesn't happen .
Speaker 3But so managing , but also really opening your book of your life and looking into many more benefits outside of of the scale and and everything Cause the scale . Like Hillary said , you just want to smash it someday , you just want to get rid of it because really our quality of life really focusing on quality of life and people removing those blinders I feel like people have had the most success in in this , because they're then able to go back to a lifestyle that they feel good in . So , to me , removing those blinders I guess , putting it simply is what I have observed in those clients who are open and willing or sometimes that evolves Sometimes there's a little resistance but then having some of that neuroplasticity to allow your body and willingness to change , coming in with a little bit more of that open mind versus just narrow blinders , everything else that's . That's what I have observed to be a little bit more success over time for improving quality of life and just getting out of the diet total diet mindset .
Speaker 1Katie , what have you observed as a coach ?
Speaker 4Well , some of the things I would sound like a total broken record . So I'm glad we didn't all like we didn't compare notes beforehand , but I had written down people that celebrate their weekly wins . So talk about Leanne . You're talking about timeline and expectations . So I wrote patience . So many of my clients have come to appreciate that this is actually even not even a six month goal that they have right . They're like I don't know if this is going to take me 12 months , 24 months , they're like , but I'm committed and I'm going to keep working towards it . Flexibility was the other kind of characteristic I had , right . So it's when they travel or when it's a social event , or they get sick or they're injured or they have to go to a different gym , that they don't just throw up their hands and be like I can't do it Right . They either come , maybe they come to me or maybe they try to do something different , but they give us like , give me an opportunity to help you troubleshoot , because that's going to be what makes you like more resilient in the future .
Speaker 4And so there's a little bit of vulnerability sometimes in those situations of being like I didn't know what to do in this situation and I slipped into my old habits and I'm like , hey , that's fine , let's get curious about what happened . What were the circumstances that led to this ? How do you wish it had gone ? So I think there's that vulnerability , that curiosity , working to kind of understand , like asking questions , participating .
Speaker 4Like Hillary said , there's so many avenues , so many nets that we have , whether it's Facebook , saturday morning calls , sunday night calls , the clients that participate in those , even if they don't have questions , right , they call in just to observe and be present .
Speaker 4They're basically feeding their mind a healthy diet , right of the right type of content to help them navigate those things that they may not be experiencing right now .
Speaker 4It might not be a question that they have right now , but guess what ? Six months down the road , they're going to find themselves in a similar situation and they're going to feel more equipped and better to , in a better position to be able to navigate it . So I just think that the people , that the clients that have the best success , are the ones that take advantage of every as many of the elements that they can in our tracking program or in our coaching program , right ? So weekly wins is one of the things in our tracker and not everyone fills it out and I honestly I think it's one of the most important elements as part of our tracker . I could give two rips half the time about what the scale weight is doing , but I want to know , like , what you came up against this week and how you navigated it and how you're going to kind of build on that momentum kind of over time .
Speaker 6So , and Joe , I'm sure you could expand , like how that connects that being able to stop , how that connects that being able to stop recognize your wins . So I tried , you know , say , hey , fill those out on Monday . I have to assume that psychologically , stopping filling that out , reflecting on a Monday , that sets you up wonderfully for the week ahead . So I'm sure , psychologically , that that's got to play in for those people who really truly stop and fill out those weekly wins . That's that's got to play in for those people who really truly stop and fill out those weekly wins . That's that's got to set them up for success .
Speaker 1Yeah , it's called neuroplasticity , which it's just that flexibility of mind and habit . Julie , what are your thoughts in terms of , you know , clients who are successful versus not successful , when being treated like a diet versus a lifestyle ?
Speaker 5being treated like a diet versus a lifestyle . The clients that have an excuse for everything , right , there's always the one that's like you know , I was sick , legitimate things , death in the family or a move or things that disrupt and that , but they , that's their excuse to throw in the towel and not , like you said , I guess , the neuroplasticity to somehow get past that . You know , joe , you said earlier about your rigidity , about your food discipline . I know where you're going with that . With that that's can go the wrong way .
Speaker 5It is this form of mental toughness and I think that's something that sometimes yeah , I mean , if it was easy , everybody would do it right and clearly , if you look around the world , most people aren't doing it , or at least around America , and so it does require some , whether it's mental toughness , whether it's just dedication I mean there's so many times I'm just like you paid a lot of money for this but you can tell within a couple of weeks the people who are putting stuff in every day versus the people who are like , oh yeah , I forgot . I mean you can say over and over I can't manage what you don't measure . You know what I mean . It's so true and you can say it and you can say it , but it's the same . But I will say that's probably those people . It's not going to ever become a lifestyle for them because they're going to be distracted . They'll be derailed at the first Right .
Speaker 1I think , ironically , what I've seen and you guys can agree or disagree is the clients just cannot get past kind of like this diet mentality . There's a certain amount of desperation and panic , like got to get this weight off now , but ironically the level of consistency and effort being put in does not at all match expectations of what the results should be . And a lot of excuses like well , I don't like doing this , or I don't , I'm not someone who is one to go to the grocery store , well , you know something's got to change . You came to us and we're telling you what has to change . So just kind of just like a rigidity in lifestyle and but strangely enough , the most desperate , the most panicked , the most forlorn when the results aren't there and and an inability to see what have you done , I mean they want you to .
Speaker 5They're like well , I guess I need to cut more . You're not consistently eating , the calories are out . Now it is a catch 22 and that it's a lifestyle . But yet in the initial point it feels very much like a diet , because you're keeping track and you're thinking about food constantly and you're thinking about what am I going to eat next and fitting everything into your tracker . You can't avoid it , right ? I mean , yeah , it's the intention .
Speaker 1You have to be disciplined feels like a lot of work and for most people there hasn't been that effort put into diet or nutrition or exercise before , so it feels like the results should be very grandiose . And that's where , again , I think , get moving out of the dieting lifestyle until you realize , oh no , this is just probably how I got to where I was , was the lifestyle that I was living .
Speaker 5Trying to explain to . Yes , it's a lot right now , but this will become second nature and you're not going to have to fill out that little tracker for the rest of your life . You're going to inherently know what about 120 grams of protein looks like and it'll become second nature . It will become your lifestyle . Like you said , the people who struggle with seeing that's a long-term goal . I'm going to get there . I just have to get through this first . So you have to want it bad enough and you have to decide that this is it's . This is what I need for me and what I want to put the effort into
Making Permanent Lifestyle Changes
Speaker 5.
Speaker 1And I think , not to treat it like a fad diet Like we . So anyone listening that loves fad diets loves that that . This is not us , so probably we're not the right coaches for you . But if you want to make a permanent change and , like I said , get out off the fad diets and into a reasonable , sustainable , healthy lifestyle , we can certainly help . It's all about habit formation and behavior change . I think that's all we have for today . Like I said , you know you've gotten a taste of our amazing coaches . If you want some help with having a nutrition plan , having an exercise plan we also also have mindset coaching with our program to help make the behavior changes that we're talking about then you might go to be a good candidate for our program . There are links in the show notes . You can always schedule a discovery call or just reserve a spot by going to the link in our show notes . But thanks , coaches , for a great conversation and we'll catch you next time .