Melissa: Project Manager, Human Resources Professional; Bachelor of Science in Interdisciplinary Studies, Certificate in Human Resource Management, Master's Certificate in Project Management, Master of Science in Organizational Development

Most of us have encountered Human Resources when we have applied for jobs or internships, through our applications, interviews, paychecks, and policies. What is it like to work in Human Resources?  What kind of things do you do? Melissa had many interests in college and began to identify some things about her strengths and interests to help guide her in her early career decisions.  She has taken intentional actions throughout her education and career to learn more and gain skills to advance. This episode is helpful not only for those interested specifically in Human Resources and Project Management, but also for those who have a wide variety of interests in college and are looking for how to take steps forward throughout their career.  I wanted to interview Melissa because I knew she would have fantastic advice and guidance for people in a variety of places in their education and career - and she delivered!  

Transcript

Carrie: 0:01

Thank you for joining us today on Paths in Progress. I'm your host, Carrie Young. On this podcast, people in a variety of career fields, talk about their journey from choosing their college, deciding which majors and minors to pursue, their first jobs out of college, and all of the hurdles, detours and victories along their path through today. Our goal is to help students hear about a variety of exciting opportunities out there and understand what day-to-day life is like in these careers. I hope you enjoy and learn from our story today. Thanks for listening. Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining us today. We are here today with Melissa. Melissa is a project manager and has worked many years in human resources. She has a Bachelor of Science in Interdisciplinary Studies. She has a Certificate in Human Resource Management. She has a Master's Certificate in Project Management, and she has a Master of Science in Organizational Development. Melissa, thanks so much for joining us today. Thank you. Glad to be here. I'm so happy you're here. We've known each other a long time and we did meet in the workplace a very long time ago. So I'm excited to hear about what you've been doing since then and just to hear more about your story. So can you take us back to your high school days and tell us a little bit about what you were thinking regarding your career path, and how you approached your college search?

Melissa: 1:25

For sure. So back to high school, I graduated in the year of 2000. And for me, it wasn't that I knew what I wanted to do. It was the fact that I knew that I needed to go to college. So my father graduated college, my mother did not. And I had a lot of experience, just listening to her stories and her career trajectory versus my dad's, which I thought was more expansive because of his degree. So for me, it was, You're going to college, not necessarily knowing what I would do. So I always thought maybe business, maybe sociology, psychology would be the path that I would pursue. But I wasn't specific when I first got accepted to the University of Houston.

Carrie: 2:03

And how did you go about choosing your major and kind of exploring to figure out what you did want to do, at least with your education?

Melissa: 2:11

Yeah. Funny story. I did a lot of things. So for, for me, started out, business major. Then thought, okay, business is okay. Business school is interesting. MIS was an interesting degree at the time. Enron was a super popular company and if, you know, there's a younger audience here, but there's a huge crash around the time that we were graduating with the technology space and just with business in general. And so I kind of ventured into communications and ended up. Just having a lot of hours in so many different areas, including African American studies that I graduated with an interdisciplinary studies degree, which is generally I think for most universities call a general studies degree, which allowed me to, if I wanted to at the time, because the market was so bad, I could pursue teaching and get a teaching certificate, or I could continue with my master's degree. But it wasn't that I was specialized in a particular area, which was fine for me because my intention was always to go to grad school.

Carrie: 3:07

Yeah, I love that because I think a lot of people are so hung up on finding a very specialized, you know, specific route at the undergraduate level. And what a lot of people don't realize is that's not really necessary, especially if you want to explore a lot of different things and learn a lot of different things and kind of participate in a lot of different areas, you can get a more generalized degree that allows you to take a lot of different types of classes and then specialize more with like some kind of certification post graduation or a master's degree or even some kind of training after your undergrad. You don't necessarily have to pin yourself into a really specialized area so early.

Melissa: 3:49

Completely agree. And that was me. I just, there was a lot that I liked and I was like, I like this, I like that. Maybe I'll go into the workplace. Maybe I'll go directly into grad school. I ended up having to of course find a job cause I'm paying my bills, you know, it was independent there. But I was excited to pursue what I liked. And that's kind of the lesson that I teach my kids. I want them to absolutely be able to cover their lifestyle, but I also want them to explore something that they like, especially if they're going to be doing it for several, several years.

Carrie: 4:17

Absolutely. So was there something in undergrad that kind of started pointing you in a particular direction, or did you really need to get out into the workforce to start to figure that out for yourself?

Melissa: 4:28

I think for me, I had to get out into the workforce. So at University of Houston downtown, where I graduated in University of Houston, there wasn't necessarily a human resources degree. So I didn't know what it was that I wanted. I was like, I like people. I want to manage situations regarding people. I want to be in that business space, but there wasn't a title for me particularly. I know that there is now that, a degree path. If there was, I think I absolutely would have pursued human resources as an undergrad option. But it was just general business at the time or communications or psychology that fit more in that space.

Carrie: 5:02

So what got you interested in human resources? If you thought that you would pursue it at the undergraduate level, was there something in your life that made that appealing to you, or did you have a particular experience that clicked with you that made you think that that would be a wise path for you to take?

Melissa: 5:18

Yeah, I think my parents. And my dad, was the director of probation. So he definitely was not in human resources, but he dealt with people. He dealt with people that were on probation, worked on interventions for them. A lot of times people would come to our house asking for his help. So I knew that there was something there in the people space. My mother, who was administrative assistant, executive assistant, most of her career. She was always getting leaders or getting people in line, getting them straight, getting them organized, and I've really liked that. I thought that that was that type of personality too. But I knew that I didn't necessarily want to be that assistant. I want it to be more in the management space or the space where I'm more directing things. So The sweet spot was human resources because that was the space where you advocate for people, but you're also, advocating for the business to make sure that the strategy, is weaved throughout the processes that we have.

Carrie: 6:10

Yeah. So what were your first steps out of undergrad?

Melissa: 6:15

Undergrad? Because of the industry, I couldn't find a job. So for me, I was looking for something that matched and that's where we met. First job out, you know, industry is bad, couldn't necessarily get through to the bigger companies just because they were laying off. So I found a job working for an insurance company, in the back office, but still in an assistant space. So for me, I was like, this is a pathway to at least put some things down, for my resume that would be translatable and that could potentially turn into another job. So, started off supporting and I was like, well, this could be an assistant in HR, this could be like a recruiting coordinator. This could be the step as long as I was gathering skills that translated well.

Carrie: 6:54

That's a great way to look at that because I think a lot of students who are graduating from college feel the pressure to get this fancy job right out of school, right? Or to get this dream job space or this kind of ideal thing that they've always wanted right out of school. And I think it's a much healthier perspective to do what you just said and say, obviously we're going to apply to a variety of things. The economy, who knows what state it's going to be in upon graduation, particularly in different industries. So you can really look at it as, what kind of position can I take to gain these skills, right, to get me to the next step or to help me grow in a particular way? It doesn't have to be the ideal thing right off the bat, and I think that's really a struggle for a lot of students as they go for that immediately, and some people get that, and that's great. But for the vast majority of us, right, that's not the situation. But if you look at it, like, what can I learn and what skills can I gather to be able to go to the next step? I think it's just a much healthier way to look at it. I think that's awesome.

Melissa: 7:58

I completely agree. I completely agree. And I feel like generations prior to us, it was choose your discipline. Follow your discipline. Never leave your job, stay at your job, all of those things, which is just not our reality. Since then, since our parents were in the workforce, it's a little bit different now. Jobs leave us, you know, we leave jobs. So there's a lot of opportunity just to gather skill sets and see where that takes you.

Carrie: 8:21

Absolutely. So as far as human resources is concerned, if there are students listening who are interested in that, do you have any recommendations for those entry level type positions as far as like the skills that are important to start gathering or a valuable experience that could be in a lower level position to help in that industry?

Melissa: 8:44

For sure. If I was in college and looking for a job, I would definitely look for a coordinator, analyst titles. When you think HR, you're thinking, oh, they hire people, they fire people, they give out benefits. But HR is in technology, they're in data science. We have a lot of people that work in the human resources function that are accountants, that are engineers. And it's about the work that's being done. So it's not all necessarily about the traditional ways about it. So I would just look for any of those types of analyst titles, maybe not necessarily what you think is a traditional HR role. Because it's just so much more expansive. Like I'm in the systems and project management space. I could translate easy to IT. It people could translate easy into the things that I do. So just don't limit yourself to what you think is simple. The HR role of a generalist or a manager, it's larger than that.

Carrie: 9:34

So after that first position, what other positions were you taking, that you felt like were important steps along your path?

Melissa: 9:43

Similar just to the advice that I offered my first couple of jobs and, you know, I was fully degreed, but I was a HR coordinator, HR assistant, moved to HR analyst. And the other thing that I will insert here is that these titles, they expand. So the salary could differ 60, 70, 000. So I wouldn't get thrown off that you're just an analyst, like you're at the beginning. There are specialized and experienced analysts that sit in that space. And those are the roles that I look for. I looked for those type of titles. I looked for different experiences. Like, so back to the point, I have a knack for systems. So I looked for systems analyst roles. Like how can I learn the latest HCM system or get certified in that? That to me would make me translatable to different roles, but also make me more valuable when the economy does its ebbs and flows.

Carrie: 10:30

So I mentioned at the beginning that you have a certification in human resource management And you have a master's certificate in project management. So can you talk a little bit about how you decided to start obtaining certifications along your path and what those certifications did for you and your career?

Melissa: 10:48

Yeah, absolutely. To take you back and working in HR, looking at different roles, trying to figure out what's next for me, and just discovered that there is either experience that I need or certifications that would probably have me like seen better with recruiters and More marketable. So the first certification that I looked for was just a human resource management certification, project management certifications. I learned that like HR, while we're very nice, very good at the people aspect, translating that people aspect to work, to reportable outcomes was a gap. And so pursued those certifications to make myself number one, more marketable, but to understand how to connect the human aspect to the business aspect. So those are the first two certifications that I went for. Later on, I would say probably about six, seven years later, certified in scrum. So I'm certified scrum master. And I have a senior certificate in human resources. And those are again, just number one, to continue my education, to learn what's new and different, to not just think that I know everything. And then secondly, to make myself more marketable to companies, to translate that I know how to do human resources. And I can also translate that to the business's bottom line.

Carrie: 12:01

Can you explain what Scrum is?

Melissa: 12:03

Yes, I'd love to talk about that because that's not necessarily human resources. It's an IT function. It's a way of doing work. So instead of you know, you're waiting a whole month to show your vice president this presentation means that you're going to your vice president more often and you're okay with getting their feedback when you're not finished. So it's a way of thinking about doing your daily work in a more agile way. to get responses back sooner. So in the tech industry, not all those industries, they're moving fast, they're moving quick. So this helps us think through work in a less traditional way, but to get a better outcome.

Carrie: 12:38

So when you started obtaining these certifications, how did you go about figuring out, first of all, how to get them? What types of institutions were you going to to get them? Like, for students who are interested in that, they hear certifications all the time, right? Oh, I have a certificate in this or that or whatever. So outside of your traditional undergraduate degree, how did you go about looking for those and figuring out what the best place was for you to get them?

Melissa: 13:06

So how I went about them, always seek mentors. So I looked at people on LinkedIn. There was always someone at the job that I worked at that I looked at them and said, Hey, I want to do your job. Or how did you get to your role? And that's how I started learning more about them. I can't tell you that they're always in your face. So these are things that I feel like you have to Seek out, read articles, figure out what other people are doing. I would look at people's titles and I'd see CSM, SHRM, STP, all of these things. And I want that. You know, how do I go about getting that? And started having those conversations. And when I was working, I started making that part of my personal development plan, like next year, I think I want to do this, or I want this experience. How do I get there? That would map out a plan. This would require this certification, or I'd ask. Hey. Should I do grad school over a certification and not get one answer over the next now get a combination of both? And then I made a plan that worked best for me.

Carrie: 14:00

So as I said in the beginning, you also do have a master's degree So yeah, I mean just listening to you, obviously you're motivated to be a lifelong learner, right? You continuously want to learn. Before we get into like the details of the master's degree? Can you just talk a little bit about the importance of always seeking out that education and how you feel like that's benefited you along the way?

Melissa: 14:22

Yeah, you know, I was starting to age myself now, but when you have experienced a layoff or a mass layoff of people, you start realizing like, well, what does it take for me not to be a part of that number? So unfortunately, I've been a part of the number, more than I've ever wanted to say, but I had to realize like, I can't be the same. I can't just go off of one skill set and think that I know everything. The world is changing. Industries are changing. I need to also be open to changing and learning. And so I put that top of mind and I still do. What is new? What is coming that I need to know that I could like, Share or be an expert in. And for me, that's really helped me be just more marketable. I feel like, you know, you're looking at Melissa and you're thinking about like next steps. Well, Melissa has this and she's, she stepped out and she's learned these other things. So we really want to keep her around because she's super resourceful. So that was super important for me to be resourceful. If worst came to worst, there's three other things that I also know how to do outside of my main area of expertise.

Carrie: 15:21

Yeah, that's great advice. So where along your path did you decide that it was time for the master's degree? What were the things that were alerting you to that, as opposed to just continuing with more certifications or other options, right? What was it that really pushed you in that direction?

Melissa: 15:38

Yeah, mentioned earlier, like, oh, I'm going into grad school as soon as I graduate. That did not happen. I went to grad school 10 years later after I graduated with my bachelor's degree. And, just life happens, you know, get married, have children. And it wasn't necessarily something that I felt like I needed at the time. I've always wanted to have it. So it's been a personal goal of mine to have a graduate degree. Just, wasn't necessarily there at the moment. It became more important to me, as I was moving up in my career and I started to notice that the peers around me that were getting promoted or people that were in management positions had their graduate degree or they had certifications in combination with experience. And so I thought to myself, I was like, I don't know if I want to sit in the same spot for 10 years in my space, like in particular in HR. Cause I don't think that that's the same, sure. You talk to other people, may not be the same reality, but I was like, I don't think I could just wait and go off of experience alone. I need to put on top of my experience that secondary degree. And so that's when it became very clear that I'm going to grad school, I'm going to finish this program and learn more about human resources.

Carrie: 16:42

Absolutely. So when you go into a master's degree that you went into, what were the types of courses that you were taking? And which ones do you felt like were really the most helpful to you?

Melissa: 16:53

With the graduate degree in human resources, it's kind of the same scenario. You won't always find master's degree in human resources. So my master's degree is in organizational development, which is more of the study of how companies organize, how they develop their talent, how do they, coach their leaders. There's also organizational psychology. So there's a couple of different degree paths. And for me, I was literally looking at the degree plans, understanding this master's program encompasses, you know, A, B and C. And for me, it wasn't that I did particular coursework. It was learning about how organizations think. How leaders think and how can you become successful or how can you, I would say, equip a leader to become successful in the organization that employs them. And it got into like the psychological piece and like, how do you appeal to leadership? And, what are the barriers to success? Like I just really like to this day, still reference books that I read that have like literally changed my life. So, it was eye opening and I feel like it helped me outside of work in my personal life. Like how do I work through conflict, you know, through scenarios, at home and with other people that are just not work related. It was really good experience for me.

Carrie: 18:06

So you mentioned the books. I always love a good book recommendation. Do you have a couple for us?

Melissa: 18:11

So there's two things that I really like, or two, I'd say authors, but one's the Arbinger Institute. So that's just a group of authors. My favorite book is, The Anatomy of Peace. They have another book called The Outward Mindset and then leadership and self deception. And it's really just talking about how leaders think or how we should think outside of ourselves. I think in the workplace we get so caught up, you know, we make work on number one place where they're all the time. But it really gets to the core of how decisions are made and how can we get to peaceful resolutions. Your listeners, and when they hit the workplace, it's different, you know, it's, it's fast. It's sometimes toxic, but for me, this centered me and centered my thinking. And I really appreciated them. So those are the series of books that I always recommend. And then second, Adam Grant, I really like him. So I saw him at a SHERN conference. And we were there just listening to him. And he was just so opposite of traditional work. And he started talking about being a disruptor, like, what does it mean to have a different opinion and express that opinion. And he talked about companies that were successful, especially those younger companies that started out just with the thought that was so not traditional and look at them now. So, Love him. Absolutely love him. If I ever met him, I'm sure I would like fan out and faint. But those are two books that just lead me through life and to, I guess, organizations, books, thinkers, that inspire me in my space that I work in.

Carrie: 19:36

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's so important to Find resources like that to continue learning outside of a classroom, like the things that somebody is requiring you to read, right? Although if that's how you discover things, that's great too. But it's so important to just keep that learning going and to get other ideas in your head, especially with how to navigate the workplace. There's so many resources out there. Some of them are more relationship based. Some of them are more organizational based, right? There's a lot of different ways to approach that. So you have to find what speaks to you. But it's so helpful to just to be able to approach your whole career. And if you have a new opportunity, you know, every time you have a new job, you can start fresh. You know, it's a new environment. You can show up in a different way in a better way. And it's so helpful to have those kinds of resources with you along the way to do that.

Melissa: 20:26

Absolutely.

Carrie: 20:28

So once you obtained your master's degree, was there a particular leap you wanted to make with that or a particular direction that you wanted to go in once you finished that degree?

Melissa: 20:41

I think I wanted to stay down the same path. Honestly, the degree did a couple of things outside of what I really learned. So, there's a learning component that is invaluable. I feel like having that master's degree in the HR space made me more marketable. It changed, I feel like, my income bracket of what I could get because of the certifications and degrees that I have obtained. I could go in at a higher I would say income rate, a higher level of responsibility, quicker than I would say just Waiting year after year. And for me, that was super important because, you know, we have family goals. There's things that I want to accomplish, and it certainly helped me in that area for sure.

Carrie: 21:20

Yeah, I think one thing, you know, there's this whole conversation that's particularly sensitive and topical right now is whether or not people need degrees like the value of higher education. Of course, there's some industries and there's some paths where it's truly not necessary. You know, if people are going on certain spaces that really don't require that, then a lot of people make that choice because that's best for them. But there's also situations where the reality is you can move up because of that Certification or that piece of paper or that degree, whatever it is, right? And it can open up a whole bunch of doors that you just didn't have access to before. So if that's something that you're interested in, I always encourage students to utilize LinkedIn simply as a research tool, really, because when you're a young student, you know, you kind of feel like, well, I don't need LinkedIn cause I'm not a professional yet. But you can get on there and start researching these type of things. If there's people out there. there who have a kind of role that you're interested in, go on their profile. Do they have certifications? What degrees do they have? What were their majors? Where did they go? And if you start consistently seeing a lot of people in the space that you want to be in, you know, they all have the same certification or something similar, then you need to start thinking about that and planning for it because that can open more doors for you than if you don't have that.

Melissa: 22:48

Yeah, I absolutely couldn't agree more. And also to my decision for grad school wasn't just for that. Right. So that's one of the reasons, but secondarily I learned so much. So I'm a super fan, you know, like I know a lot of people will come and ask, well, should I do this? Well, it's absolutely still your choice. I'm not going to say that it's required, but outside of my job, if I want to go start a business, if I want to go into consulting. The lessons that I learned in grad school are invaluable and go beyond just me being able to maybe like get a better job. And that's also something that I would tell your listeners to think about. Like, even if you didn't need that for your job, is that something that you still would want to pursue? Would you still enjoy those classes? If that answer is yes, then definitely go for it.

Carrie: 23:29

Yeah, and on that same note, how you were describing how you looked at the degree plans for the different types of master's degrees that you were looking at, I'm still shocked by how many people go into a major or go to a different university and they haven't looked at the degree plans. Yeah. And, you know, the title of a degree is one thing, but that title, I mean, even just, you know, take an MBA, for an example. That's going to look very different across a lot of different institutions. If you're not actually looking at the plan to see what the actual courses are that you're going to be taking, you know, you have to think about the time investment, not just the financial investment, but like you're going to be spending a lot of your time discussing these topics and reading about them them and writing about them and doing projects, you know, in those spaces. And if you don't like anything that you're seeing, is that the degree you should be pursuing? Not that everybody loves every single course they've ever taken. Right. I mean, of course, there's always going to be a handful of those who are like, ugh, have to take this because it's part of the plan. Of course. But you have to at least be interested in some of these things that you're going to be discussing and reading about and investing your time and money in. So please take the time, whether it's undergrad or grad or certificate or whatever it is, look at those degree plans and those individual classes and those options that you have and the options that you don't have, right? That really should help inform your decision about where you're going to go and what degree or certificate you're going to get.

Melissa: 25:04

Yeah, I absolutely agree. Absolutely.

Carrie: 25:07

So as you've gone through, Your education in all these different spaces, you mentioned, you know, what you teach your kids earlier, but has that changed how you think you're advising your kids as far as how they should educate themselves? Because a lot of people that listen are students, whether they're in high school or in college, or even like right out of college, are there some things that you've learned along the way that you're really either insistent upon with your kids, or you feel like it's really important to pass on to your kids to think about as they start going through this process?

Melissa: 25:41

Yeah. So interesting because there's such a fine line between doing what you love and maybe doing what kind of pays the bills. So we had that scenario in our house and I was like, my child may love to absolutely, I don't know, garden, but it's only going to give you, you know, 2 an hour. Do you want to do that? Or do you want to maybe do something that's close. So we try to really talk a lot about balance and finding maybe what you love or to your point, you might not like everything about it, but does it check off a lot of the boxes? Does it do what you need it to do? Then that's okay. Right. Checks out three of the five. Pursue that. Yeah, absolutely. Or look into that and be resourceful. You know, you go into school thinking one thing, you leave out, maybe you do another thing. So just keep your eyes and ears focused. And we just don't want them to get tied into a particular degree set. But we say that, and we're also like, well, you also have to figure out: what are you looking to do? Is it going to cover the travel that you want to do? Are you going to be able to save and buy a home? And depending on that, you might make different decisions, or you might decide, hey, I'm going to pursue this one thing. And I'm going to also have a side business that covers A, B, and C. So we want them to be open minded, but we also want to be very honest and transparent about the experiences that they may have.

Carrie: 26:53

Yeah, it's such a hard conversation to have with any student. One huge thing I've learned not just about myself, but in a lot of spaces over the years, is that a lot of times the things that you're really good at that you have strengths in aren't even necessarily the things you like very much, which could be really hard to if people like, Oh, you're so good at math or you're so good at, you know, fill in the blank, whatever it is. And it's hard because there's like, yeah, I'm really good at that. And it's comes easily to me, but I don't actually enjoy it. So how do you make sure that you're pursuing things that you can be successful in? Because we also definitely want to keep in mind that we have some enjoyment here, right? And that we get some fulfillment out of this. Yeah. Absolutely. So what are the things that you've enjoyed about the spaces that you've been in, in your career path? Like, how have you found strengths in yourself or things that you enjoy doing? What are some of those things that have clicked for you in the types of work that you've done?

Melissa: 27:54

Yeah. It's funny, right? Because you're wanting your job to have fulfillment, but there's fulfillment in different spaces. So even within the workspace, I have the job that I do that I'm paid to do. There's plenty of Organizations and groups within the company that I volunteer for. There's women's organization. There's an African American group. There is a group of representing neural divergent employees. So I find joy not only in doing my job. But like stepping out and using my talents within the workspace, but maybe in a different spot, like maybe in an affinity group that I volunteer with, or some of the things that they encourage our community service outside of work. I make sure my bucket is filled in different places. So I would never want for anybody to solely be focused. on their job, making them happy. There's other things that can also make you happy within your job or a little bit outside of it. So I make sure that I seek that balance so that a full circle, you know, when I'm having that bad day, well, Hey, I got this skillset that I learned and I volunteer or someone's calling me tonight, asking me some for some advice that brings me absolute joy too.

Carrie: 28:59

So in either a human resources space or a project management space, some students may be familiar with human resources because, you know, they have a part time job and they had to go through human resources when they got hired, you know, a lot of students have had exposure to human resources, at least on the surface to know in general, like what it is. Like if somebody says, I don't know what being certified in project management is, or I don't know what human resource management is, can you give us an overview of those and maybe some characteristics that if students have them might be a good fit for either one of those spaces?

Melissa: 29:34

I would say human resources management is the management of people, but it's not only the management of people. So it's not just Let's bring them in, you know, let's recruit for them. Let's make sure that they have, their bonuses and merit increases. Let's make sure that they're paid. Let's make sure that they're compensated fairly. It's also understanding their talent development. So if we hire someone into an accounting space, are they growing? Do they understand The programs are the next jobs that are set out for them. So it's really big and broad. It's not just, you know, those one or two core things. We always have to make sure people get paid. We always have to make sure that that they're getting what they need to be successful. But, What is their next step? You know, what are their interests? Are we listening to that? Are we handling their full term benefits, like outside of just medical? Are they having psychological events and activities that support their well being? So those are, I would say Generally, you know what you think of when you think of human resources. And then you have these subsets you'll have, there's projects that need to be moved in human resources. You have annual enrollment. How are you going to get it done? We're in the technological space. Now we don't work off of paper. So like what system are we going to move these people along when we hire them? And how are we adopting AI technology into that space? So it's so big once you get inside of it. It's bigger than just. You know, these four things that you think. It's huge. Tons of opportunity.

Carrie: 31:02

And then are there certain kind of strengths or characteristics that students may find in themselves that are kind of naturally a good fit to be in human resources or be in project management?

Melissa: 31:13

Yeah. The skill set that I would look for is, are you a problem solver? Are you open to a new way of doing things? And can you help see the end for someone that maybe not that is not able to see it? So the example is like human resources connect the dots between the company and what they're trying to do and how we can get all of our employees to do the same thing. So if you can see that and you're able to translate that for a group of people, then human resources, I would say is your space. And are you open for things? Just changing businesses, change their minds. We don't want to work on this anymore. We want to work on something different. How can you support that transition from a psychological aspect and from a work aspect? So that would, to me as a human resources professional. And that isn't something that I feel like you always have to go to school for, you know, like that's something that's innate that you could have or that you could see and translate. You don't have to always be that HR titled person with that degree, you could fit into the space with other skills as well.

Carrie: 32:18

Absolutely. I think that's so important for not just students to keep in mind, but for everybody to keep in mind that a lot of times the things about yourself that you can really talk up in a cover letter or in an interview to identify yourself as the right candidate for a job, a lot of times those are not related to your education, right? It's related to your personality or how you naturally think or how you naturally operate in a certain environment. And it's important to remember those things as we're talking in an interview or in a cover letter because a lot of what you have to offer, of course it's important that you have work experience or you're certified in something or your education, but there's also things about you as an individual that are important to highlight as you're going into those situations to explain why you think that you're the right person for that role.

Melissa: 33:09

Absolutely. There's been plenty of jobs that I'm sure on paper I don't look right for, but once I got through the interview and was able to talk, I think that people were able to see other things in me that maybe didn't resonate on paper. So I totally agree with that. Yeah,

Carrie: 33:22

and it's important to try to talk about those in a cover letter if you know that they're not there on the paper, right? That you can kind of bring them out in that type of document. That's your opportunity to do that. So going back to your career timeline after you got your master's degree, what were some of the different types of positions that you've had? Like what are the kind of the different spaces that you were finding yourself in? And what were those jobs like for you? And how are they different from what you had before your master's degree?

Melissa: 33:53

After finishing my master's degree job started opening up that, you know, HR manager, HR consultant, HR advisor, the degree I think allowed me or allow employers to see me in a decision maker space versus one that needed to be directed. So prior to that, it's like, okay, we got to give you your task. You got to figure this out. The master's degree, I think, solidified my ability to make decisions or to suggest things to leadership because I was In so many words certified to do so, or you know Just had the education and experience to validate the things that I was saying. Which was not so easy to do prior to that. I think I would have ideas not have suggestions, but I have to run them through someone else. And so now, after that became the person that was like, Oh, I have this idea and I'm going to bring this up to the VP on this date. And she would be okay with that because Melissa is certified. She has this level of experience. She's spent some time really in this space and I trust what she's saying. So it brought a level of I would just say credibility that I didn't have before, or probably would have had to wait longer to get.

Carrie: 35:04

Do you have any kind of favorite projects that you've worked on in your career or favorite types of roles that you've had that you can share to give us a little bit more insight into the type of work that you've done?

Melissa: 35:19

Yeah, And I guess this is where I geek out as an HR person. So, you know, we have HR know so much before I feel like the rest of the company, that's one of the reasons why I like HR, because I'm a little bit nosy. In HR, I get to see things, you know, months and years ahead. So one of the projects that we had. What's just to understand our workforce. Like who exactly is working for our company. So worked for a fairly large company. We had over 40, 000 employees. And honestly, we just didn't know what everybody did. So I spent a year really understanding the roles. How do we categorize people? And should we need to make different organizational changes? So I love when a company reorgs, as long as it's not personally impactful. I love to say, you know, we're changing the way we do things. And this group's now going to report here and this person's going to be doing this new job. So I just get excited about change and just the management of change and being able to visualize that and then hear about it, because, it's fun, like, Hey, we're going to make this change effective April, but I've been working on it for a year. That's so exciting to me. But that's just like some of the fun things that aren't the traditional, we're going to hire 50 people for this new job. These are the inside, top secret things that we sometimes have to sign off on that we cannot speak about that comes to life months later, that you are proud that you are a part of that decision making process. Like that is true fun for me.

Carrie: 36:41

Do you have any advice for students who are interested in either HR or a project management space? Are you familiar with types of internships that they should look for? Like is there a certain kind of experience that you think is really valuable to have very early on in their path?

Melissa: 37:02

Yeah, which is one thing I didn't have. So I worked during college full time job. I didn't have the internships that my husband, he had. So my entry was a little bit different. If I could go back and if I could look for internships and they'll say human resources intern. I would absolutely apply for those because you're getting in on the ground floor versus you starting when you graduate on the ground floor, you're able to Say, during college, I was able to serve in this capacity and I learned A, B and C. So I would look for those opportunities. The great thing again about HR is that they're not looking specifically for this type of major. They might take you on as an accounting major or an engineering major. You're just, you need to be able to translate. I really like this space. I'm able to translate my degree in this way and go for it. The other piece of advice that I would offer is To really seek out and talk to people. Back to your point about just looking at people's skill set. I have a young person that's reached out to me and she's like, I love your career path. We talk like every other week, just on LinkedIn. And we talk on via email. She's like, I want to get into the HR space. How do I do that? Ask people. People are really open, I would say, to sharing, especially if you have some sort of relationship. You know them through your parents or you know them through another friend on sharing like what worked well and what didn't work well for them so that you don't have to maybe go through the same experiences that we had trying to get where we are.

Carrie: 38:29

Absolutely. I encourage students to do that a lot. Even if they're reaching out to someone they don't know. But if there's someone that you either follow or someone that someone suggested to you to reach out to who has a career path that you're interested in, even if you're just interested in a certain part of their career path, right? It doesn't take a whole lot of time for people to respond to an email or respond to a direct message, right? Especially just to give a little piece of advice. The worst thing that could happen is they just don't respond to you. Absolutely. I mean, That's it. Yeah. So why not reach out to somebody and ask for advice, ask for a 30 minute coffee session, ask for a quick zoom call. Or if it's just an email exchange or a message exchange. There's no harm in doing that. Cause there may be one little tidbit of advice that they give you that could really positively impact your trajectory. Especially if it's something that you just weren't aware of.

Melissa: 39:23

Yeah. I mean, It is who you know. It's the connections that you make. There's absolutely career projection. So you go into a job and your next steps, but it's about the relationships that you cultivate and the advice that you get that is so invaluable. Once you get into the workplace, they're not going to tell you that. When you first started job, make sure you find a mentor, make sure you do these things. These are things that podcasts teach you that your students are learning here that You just kind of have to make a part of your journey as well. Absolutely.

Carrie: 39:53

Is there anything along your path or is there any type of situation that you had in one of your positions where you have some advice that's centered around like a step that you took or a decision that you made that you wish you wouldn't have? Do you have some advice where you say, you know, I decided to do this and I really wish I wouldn't have done that because I later learned that this other thing was wiser. Is there any kind of advice centered around that type of decision that you would have to offer?

Melissa: 40:27

For me, it's listening to the advice of others, but also listening to yourself. So I feel like people will have their path for you and they'll have their plan and they'll tell you what worked for them and assume that you're supposed to do that. But you really have to listen to yourself and figure out your own way. So appreciate the advice that's given, but bounce that against another person or bounce that against some people that you admire. Or for me, when I pursued some of my like agile certifications, why do you need that? HR doesn't do that. But I had to think I was like, but I think HR is going in that direction. We're technical now and things are changing. We're moving at the speed of light. So listen to your gut and also listen to the advice of others. But, don't automatically take someone's path for you as your own. Make sure it lines up to what you want to do in life.

Carrie: 41:17

Yeah. That's great advice. That's really great advice. As someone who's been in a management type of role or multiple management type of roles, can you shed some light on like when you think about your best team members or your best interns, or your best employees what are some of the characteristics that stick out to you, like for those recommendations that are the most glowing that you write for people, what are some things about those people that really make you want to write a glowing recommendation for them. What are those things that people should think about striving to be or some of those things that people should think about their workplace behavior or their goals? What are the things that stick out to you as a manager, that you really value and appreciate in your team members.

Melissa: 42:08

We had an intern last year. Actually an older intern. So it wasn't necessarily out of college, but he was just so willing to do whatever. And that's hard to say because sometimes the whatever that's thrown at you, you're like, why am I doing this? You have me counting lines or you have me doing something that, you know, I went to college. Why should I be doing this? But just be open to the experience because, you know, while the work, I wouldn't want anybody to do it. Like, it was so sad that I had to give it to him, but he was just so open minded and I felt like we were able to talk about it and I was able to connect the dots. Like the reason that we did this was for A, B, and C. So just be open to things that might not necessarily feel right or be right. I'm always telling my kids, like, I'm always going to do something in the day that I don't want to do, but it's my attitude and approach towards it and, the lesson that I get out of it that takes me to the next step. And so people that are really open to either change or maybe doing something they don't want to do, or are throwing out ideas or just wanting to learn and inquire, it's always important to get the why it's a list for me. Somebody tells me to do something. I want to know why it's not that I don't want to do it. I'm trying to connect the dots. So if I see that someone's wheels are turning, that they're connecting the dots, too,, I'm excited to work for them because maybe we could come up with a different way. Maybe we both don't like what we have to do, but we can think about it a different way and have a different outcome.

Carrie: 43:31

And on the flip side of that, what are some warning signs to you, for people in your workspace that start to tell you that maybe this person's not going to work out on this team, or this is a person that's really difficult to work with? What are some of those things that students should avoid and really make sure that they're not doing in a workspace?

Melissa: 43:54

Yeah, it would be the same advice, just flipped. Nothing is a no to an employer. It's a yes and a and. Or yes, but, can we do it this way? So, if there's an objection to something, we always want to know why. We just want to know that you're thinking through the scenario or the task that was given and you're providing explanations and we want to look for someone that's not afraid to like to speak up. So conversely, though, to answer your question, the quiet people, the people that are just not expanding beyond what we're giving them. We're looking for thought partners. Like that's diversity of thought is super encouraged at the right companies that people will be working for. And that's open. So don't have that fear. The opposite is like, Oh, well, they're just saying So quiet. They're just doing what they're told. We're looking for what's new, what's different, what's challenging. That safety to speak up and be that person.

Carrie: 44:45

A lot of people are familiar with human resources because, if anybody has had any kind of job part time or even an intern or whatever, we usually have to go through HR in some capacity to be hired. Really almost any space we think about has to have HR in some capacity. So the opportunities out there just seemed endless because HR is everywhere, right? So can you talk about how H. R. skill sets and experience can be transferable across a lot of different types of work settings and industries and what your experience has been with that?

Melissa: 45:22

Yeah, for sure. My career started out working in insurance first, but it wasn't H. R. there and then oil and gas lived in Houston. That was kind of like the place to work. So you work for oil and gas company did H. R. in oil and gas. And then move to automotive and then next move to a tech company. So within the space of human resources, the foundations are the same. You can be in any, any industry and they're also very different. I would say banking is more your corporate field. Tech is, you know, everybody's wearing sweats and T shirts on a call, but the art of the work. And so that's what's exciting about some of the degrees that students will pursue different company, like different thing that they do. But the core essence of the work is the same. And I think that that's fun because I'm now doing kind of the same thing, but in a different company that operates in a different way, that moves differently. So it's kind of fun. And I could go back to automotive and do HR there. So I like that. I'm not limited. I can still do what I love and what I like to do, but just in a different kind of workspace and work environment.

Carrie: 46:30

So when I talk to students, particularly high school students, One thing I really encourage them to do is to make sure that They're not only being honest with themselves about who they are, but they're being honest about who they are, not only when they're applying to colleges and like writing their essays, but also when they're interviewing for an internship or they're trying to enter a student organization or for a job when they graduate, because I think Especially now with so many companies and company cultures being very visible, like on social media and having particular reputations, I think, we can all be guilty of this, that you try to conform to what you think they want. Right. When you're going into an interview, you're like, Oh, I think they want this type of person. So I'm going to try to act like that type of person. But if that's not really who you are, then what are you going to do when you get into that space? Right. So can you talk about that from an HR perspective and from like a manager perspective, just about Being true to yourself and how do you find a space where you can kind of look for that? What are your thoughts on that as you're interviewing people and even when you're thinking about that for yourself? Yeah.

Melissa: 47:47

And I do think about it for myself. I always tell people like you're interviewing for a job. They're interviewing you, you know, they're checking you out, but you should be checking them out. And I mean that by like, do their values align with your values? Could you be your whole self when you go into work, whatever yourself is, whatever things you enjoy, could you be that person without fitting into, to your point, the box that's prescribed for you? That's super important when looking for a company. And I always say this with the caveat, assuming you can afford to do that, right? There's some points in life where you have to find the job that you have to find. But if you have some options. Are you're currently employed and you're looking for something else? Check them out. Look at what they stand for. Look at the things that they support and see if they align. Because when we think about employee engagement, when we think about productivity, all those things have to line up for you to feel good, for you to do the job, for the employer to feel good about you. And when they don't line up, it just doesn't make for a good environment. One of the life lessons that I have, or the way that I live my life at work is I have to be able to go to sleep with the decisions that I make. So I have to be able to sleep well with either something I've said, something I've done or what the company does and represents. So if we don't align there, then it's just not a match. I may have to still be there for a little bit, or I may have to just take the job that comes, but that's absolutely what I look for. And I would tell anyone to look for like it, the culture, you have to match the culture, but the culture also has to match you.

Carrie: 49:18

Yes, absolutely. That's really great advice. So as you've gone along your journey, is there any particular pieces of advice, whether it's specific to your industry or just like big picture life advice that has been really helpful to you that you would want to share?

Melissa: 49:37

Yeah. The life advice that I have, and it's changed over time. I feel like when you first start working, that's where you put all of your energy into, and that's your only spot. You live and breathe your job. I think that that's great. I still, you know, value my job, but always make sure that your bucket's being filled and it has to be, or look for something outside of just the work that you do, what else do you like to do? For me, I like to heavy on community service. I love to talk to younger people just about life advice. So make sure that you're seeking balance and that the only place is not just your job. So look for balance outside of that. Look for value outside of that because in corporate America, they will give you your value and you might not feel so valuable every day. So just make sure that your cup is filled in a lot of different places.

Carrie: 50:24

Yeah, absolutely. And you garden too, don't you?

Melissa: 50:27

I do garden. That brings me inner peace.

Carrie: 50:30

I was going to say, I think it's helpful to have something that is like that peaceful side thing too. Like the thing that helps you take that deep breath, breathe it out, you know, kind of a space that you can go to where you can leave all that other stuff behind you, whether that's something like gardening or painting or reading a book. Or going for a run. It's different for different people, but it's so important to have that kind of space, too.

Melissa: 51:00

Yeah, definitely find that thing. And it might be two or three things I like to garden, but I love a heavy bootcamp when someone is screaming at me to do burpees. And that's how I release. So you have to find, you know, what your happy place is, even though it might not be happy to everybody else.

Carrie: 51:16

Absolutely. Yeah, because I, you would not find me happy in that space. Well, Melissa, thank you so much for joining us today. And thank you for sharing so much about your industry and your journey. I know a lot of students can learn a lot from you and what you said today.

Melissa: 51:33

Thank you so much for the opportunity. I'm so happy to connect again.

Carrie: 51:36

Thank you so much.

51:40

Do you know someone I should interview? Please DM me on Instagram@pathsinprogresspodcast and let me know who I should talk to. I would love to hear about how these stories are impacting your journey. Please follow Paths in Progress wherever you download your podcasts and leave a review to let me know what you think. You can also follow us on Facebook and LinkedIn at Paths in Progress Podcast. Our music is by John Grimmett and the artwork is by Edgar Alanis. Thanks again for joining me today.