Ben Haney on Being Totally Stressed Out to Becoming "Zen Ben"

"Being gay was a huge part of this. Understanding what that process had done to me and how I always felt a little bit of an outsider, not really trusting my gut intuition, constantly trying to be somebody to somebody or something to other people to live what they wanted. Cause I wanted to be included. I wanted to feel a part of something."

Today I have the pleasure of hosting Ben Haney. Ben is a Real Estate investor and a restaurant owner. He’s been a client of mine pretty much since I started my business and he’s one of the few male clients I’ve worked with. Ben and I know each other from way back in our lives and he showed interested in my work when he was having problems with an old and extremely toxic business partner. He shares the story of how everything unfolded and how we were able to dismantle old programming in order to shift and move forward into a less anxious state of mind. Ben also shares how he learned how to own his truth, improve his relationship with his husband during pandemic times, and become a successful business owner. 

 TODAY'S HIGHLIGHTS  

(01:49) Intro to Ben and some awesome announcements.
(17:47) What drew Ben to work with me and where he was in his life.
(23:21) Overcoming a highly toxic business partnership.
(43:15) Trusting the intuition to keep a new restaurant running during the pandemic.
(50:26) How Ben’s relationship with his husband improved thanks to our work together.
(55:25) Moving from extreme anxiety to a more balanced and rational position.

You can find this episode's transcript here

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Transcript

Ben: Linear minded people are driven mad by life because it never happens the way that they've painstakingly planned for it to happen and that if you live life in the moment, essentially like a surfer and a wave and just ride the wave of life, your needs will eventually be satisfied. In the beginning, I was very obsessed, and my personality is that I want to ask everybody for their opinion.

And at some point, that becomes ridiculous, because it's like you're just not trusting yourself at all. And it's one thing to have feedback and think about it, but I had to learn as a 40 year old at the restaurant who employs people that are older than me and younger than me, that I'm the one that they look to.

So I can't be unsure. They do look to me to think about where the, what the direction is and solve the problems. So I have to be confident in that. And in this instance, I just had to trust my gut and it looks like it's working out.

Alyse: Welcome to Reclaiming Consciousness. My name is Alyse Bacine, spiritual mentor, breathwork practitioner and owner, and CEO of Alyse Breathes. For many years, our consciousness has been hijacked by societal and cultural programming, religion, the media, and familial and ancestral trauma. Right now, during this epic time in history, people are waking up, realizing who they really are and reclaiming the pieces of their consciousness that they unknowingly gave away.

This podcast is an exploration of how so many spectacular humans are leading the way in exiting the matrix and reclaiming who they really are and what they're capable of. In this show, you'll meet exceptional people who are paving the way in raising conscious. And creating a new way of living on this earth.

Get ready to go deep now. Let's dive in.

Hi everyone, welcome back to the show. So this week I'm interviewing my client, Ben, who has been a long term private client of mine on and off since the very beginning of my business. And he has Basically been my only male client. I have had a few others here and there. Not that I'm not open to it. It just hasn't really happened.

But you'll hear our background together. I've actually known him for a really long time. Our parents have been friends since before we were even born, and we grew up knowing each other. But when I started my business, he was very interested in what I was doing and he became a private client pretty quickly.

And then We've been working together almost ever since we took a little bit of a break, but he came back in, I think, the spring of 2022. And we've been working together one on one ever since. And he just shares his story. So he is not in the spiritual space. He's not in the transformational space. He's a real estate investor and restaurant owner.

And I just love this episode because it really shows how the spiritual teachings that I share and that I help you apply to your life can really work no matter what you're doing in your life, right? It doesn't matter if you are having a spiritual business or wanting to find your purpose or it doesn't matter.

He's a real estate investor. He's a restaurant owner. He loves doing creative projects. He loves being in real estate. And I really helped him turn things around for himself in a way that is just pretty miraculous. So, and you'll hear him share, but when he came to me, he was in a business partnership that was really not working for him on many, many levels.

And it felt almost impossible to entangle himself from it because he owned so many properties with this person and they had so many like entanglements that it felt almost impossible to get out of but it was also very toxic and it was also just like a representation of him making decisions. not being in his power and from a place of just like old patterns.

And he shares about this on the episode, but by doing this deeper work, and by really switching the way that he interacts with himself and the world, and dismantling a lot of the patterns from childhood, he was able to almost completely disconnect from this relationship and start completely new. in his real estate business.

And the other thing that was amazing that happened alongside all of this is as we started to really shift the way, like the energy he was holding around his business, the way that he was thinking about it and the way he was interacting with it, his restaurant started to do really, really well and started to make more money than it ever made.

And it was, I think when we first started working together, he wasn't sure if the restaurant was going to make it or not. And now it is doing better than ever. And thriving, which is all due to the way that he shifted his own energy and it was so miraculous and powerful. I had to have him on the show. So I know you guys are gonna love this episode and you're gonna enjoy meeting him 'cause he's definitely not like my quote unquote typical client that I work with, but it just goes to show it doesn't matter.

What area of life you're in, when you do the deeper work and you apply these higher level principles, you can literally create whatever you want, no matter what you do in the world. And it also goes to show that it doesn't matter what you do. You can bring your higher guidance, your connection to spirit, your connection to the divine and spirituality.

into whatever you are doing and that is where I see us all going in the new paradigm is really living in a way where we are bringing our connection to the divine into everything that we do and we are allowing ourselves to be divinely guided and divinely led. instead of moving from the fear based logical mind, which is what Ben started doing and how everything started working so miraculously for him.

So I know you're going to love this episode. We have a lot of really exciting things going on right now that I want to share about. So first of all, we have the birthday sale happening. So most of you know my birthday was this past Sunday, November 5th, and the sale goes until this Friday. So the birthday sale is an opportunity to jump into my two signature programs, the metamorphosis and the metamorphosis method, which is my breathwork certification at discounts.

So, and there's also really great painful bonuses. So, most of you have heard me share about the metamorphosis. To me, this is a non negotiable. If you have not done this program, This is your time to jump in because you will never look at yourself the same again, in the best way possible. Um, so if you're somebody that you feel like you continue to come up against the same challenges, you continue to repeat the same patterns.

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And the best thing about it is that you don't have to go down to the trenches and down into the muck. You don't have to relive every little thing that happened. You don't have to re, like, immerse yourself in the trauma or the bad or the wounding or relive painful situations. That's not what this is about.

And you don't have to do that. All it's about is acknowledging. the core cause of the pattern and then shifting it. And that's what we do in the metamorphosis. My methodology is unlike anything else because I identify causes and not symptoms so you can shift things very quickly. That's the metamorphosis from now until Friday.

Actually this will be coming out Thursday so it ends tomorrow. You can get 1, 000 off. Plus the pay in full bonus is a 45 minute Akashic Soul Purpose session with me. So if you pay in full for either option, that's what you get. And there's two options to join. There's the group option, which now includes Voxer support, which is really exciting.

So it's one group call a month plus Voxer support weekly as you're going through the program and it's six months long. And then you also have the option to have one private call with me a month. And that's the group plus one private call. So, both of those are 1, 000 off the payment plans or pay in full until Friday.

So please reach out to me about that. And then also the metamorphosis method, my breastwork certification program, I know many of you are interested in that. We're going to start February 1st. So there is an option to do an extended payment plan along with the 2, 000 discount. So I think that makes the payments like.

under 1, 000 a month. It's super doable. And you guys like for the price, this is like getting a master's degree. Like this is high, high level knowledge and you will emerge out of the program with a skill set that's unparalleled to get your clients really, really powerful, quick results. So if you are somebody who is a coach or a healer or desiring to be one, having the skill set is pretty much a necessity in my opinion, because you want to get people results and you want to do it fast.

This is the way to do it. Right now is such a perfect time to jump in because of the discount and because you can do the extended payment plan since we are not starting until February, and that includes two calls a month plus you do exchanges with people in the group where you're receiving sessions and you are giving them and that Everyone says is the most powerful thing about the program, because that's when you really start to understand what you're capable of as a practitioner.

And as somebody who's really able to transmute trauma and help people shift immediately. Everyone says that when they do the exchanges, that's when they really started to tap into their own specific magic. So, It's amazing. It is such a deep and profound experience. And I go really deep in teaching you how to channel energy work, how to facilitate breath work, um, and how to pinpoint trauma and clear it.

And I go into a lot of nuance. Like, I'm not just giving you an overview. Like, we go deep into nuance of like, why I do energy work the way that I do, what each component is, and why I do it. What each component of trauma is and how to pinpoint patterns, how to look at mother and father relationships and identify woundings and patterns and different aspects of the mother and father relationship and how they affect people in very specific ways.

Like this is very deep and you will emerge with a very, very refined skill set around these things. Um, I'm taking, you know, my 10 plus years of working with traumatized children, like I know what trauma looks like. I'm not just like, pulling this out of my ass like this is, it's like a combination of my gifts, but also my real life experience in the field as a mental health professional.

So this is the real deal. This is like, you know, the equivalent of going back to school for a master's degree. And you know, I've been in the game for 22 years at this point, I was doing breathwork before. Most people knew what it was. So I'm bringing a lot of experience and knowledge to the table that you get to benefit from.

So if this is something that you have are feeling called to, please reach out. There is an application on the website. But if you want to just have a conversation with me or Brandy about it, we will be able to determine if you are a fit. So if you feel the pull now is the time because of the discount and that will end tomorrow.

But if you reach out and like, we have a conversation. That, you know, we schedule for Monday, I'll hold the discount for you until after our conversation. So, okay, that is that. And then one more thing is my new program, the Sacred Six Figure Initiation, kicks off December 5th. We are filling up. So if this is something that you are feeling called to, please, please, please, please Act now.

Early bird pricing will end November 15th. This is a 10 month experience where the crux of it is I'm going to teach you how to channel for your business as a business strategy to help you quickly make your first six figures if you haven't made six figures yet, and if you have to do it more quickly.

What I see happening As we move into the new paradigm is fully channeling for your business. So we are moving out of the paradigm of doing what someone else did to make money and tuning into what you are meant to do to make money. And that's different for everyone. And the way you receive that information is through your channel.

And I'm going to show you how to open up to that and receive really potent powerful guidance around not only just what you're meant to share, But the strategy and structure around it, how you're meant to deliver content, how you're meant to structure things, how you're meant to show up, all of these things, they will come through your channel.

So we are going to be going on a very, very spiritually enlightened journey for 10 months for you to open up to that. We will meet twice a month, the calls will be a mixture of me channeling, me teaching you how to channel, hot seat coaching. business strategy, energetics, and then there will be some special guests who will be coming in to support you in opening your channel.

So this is basically learning how to channel for business and stepping into the new paradigm of business. It is going to be... So good. And you know, the message that I keep getting is not only are we stepping into the new paradigm, but we are creating it. So if you have been feeling like you've been trying to fit a square peg into a round hole when it comes to business, this is for you.

Because um, we are not trying to fit ourselves into anything. We are being more of ourselves and allowing our frequency to do the heavy lifting. And that's what we're going to be learning in the the sacred six figure initiation. So reach out to me about that. We will link it below, but you definitely want to jump in before early bird is over.

So reach out to me. Okay, I'm going to leave it there. Enjoy the episode with Ben. Oh, also, if you are interested in private, I do have a few spaces open for that. And I am opening an option to do three months with me again. So you can do three, six, or 12 months of spiritual mentorship with me, where I will work with you very closely around opening your own channel, connecting to your own spiritual gifts, and that will include my group programs, all of my masterclasses, and Voxer and one on one sessions with me.

So if you're interested in grabbing one of those spaces, definitely reach out to me and we can chat about that. And you'll be able to kind of get a look into what that's like through Ben's episode. So I'm sending you so much love and enjoy the episode.

I am super excited today because I have a very special guest with me, client and longtime friend Ben Heaney. So welcome to the show, Ben. Welcome. Welcome. 

Ben: Thanks. Thanks for having me. 

Alyse: Yeah. Of course. So I'm really excited for our conversation today because I always tell my other clients, I'm like, I have one male client.

My one male client. It is funny. I know. So it's just so funny that I always refer to you that way. Obviously, you're so much more than that. And it's not that I'm not open to taking on other male clients. And I have had other male clients, but you've been like the longest one. The most consistent. Yeah. The most consistent.

Yeah. So today we're going to talk about your journey and just all of the amazing things that you've created in the course of our work together. So do you want to just start out by telling everyone just a little bit about yourself? 

Ben: I guess we can start. I live in Philadelphia. I am married to my husband, Jamie. I'm in real estate and I own a restaurant in Philadelphia. And that's about it. Lifelong Philadelphian. Outside of college. I went to high school 10 blocks from where I live at the moment where I'm sitting. 

Alyse: And we have known each other since we were like born, basically. 

Ben: Yeah, you've known me since I was born, and you're just slightly older than me, so.

Alyse: Yeah, so for the listeners, our parents were friends long before Ben and I were born, and I'm about a year older than Ben, and then also the really, like, weird thing that we always still marvel at is the fact that our moms basically look like twins. Exactly the same. It's so weird. 

Ben: And their haircuts have changed over the years to mirror each other in like a really weird way where like, it's, it's, it's a lot.

Alyse: It's a lot. Like, and everyone always thought they were sisters. And when people looked at pictures of like our families together, they would think that our moms were sisters because they literally look exactly alike. So that's just like a funny side note of how we know each other. So can you talk a little bit about where you were at when we first started working together and what. Drew you to want to work with me. 

Ben: Yeah, God, it was three years ago. Over three years ago, it was the beginning of COVID. It was right, right as COVID happened. Yeah. I was in a business partnership that I didn't want to be in anymore. And. As the world was shutting down and everything was happening, there was a lot of chaos, just in general, and trying to make sense of what was going on, and I remember just thinking, I have no idea how to, where to turn, what to do, and you had been starting to do this, and I had been doing meditation A little bit before I think a friend of mine from in the real estate world had started to get me on it saying, Hey, you should do this every day.

I think a download that has space app or something like that and got real into it. And so it made sense. And I've never really been the type of person to do the most traditional of things. So I think this sort of spoke to me a little bit. I had started to go to a therapist in general, frankly, I wanted my business partner to go to therapy, a business sort of therapy.

So I was always open to that idea. And I love talking things out and being open to new ideas. So that's how it happened. You would just started, you actually know, come to think of it, you and I. And we had done yoga like 10 years before. That's probably where we really started. 

Alyse: Oh my God. Remember that? Yeah.

I totally forgot about that until right now. I think that, it just hit me. Yeah. When I was teaching yoga. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Because I did, I worked at your restaurant for a little bit too. Yes. Back in like when I first moved back from Tucson, I totally forgot about this. I totally forgot about that. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So in 2009. I moved back from Tucson, and then I started working at your restaurant. I think I had started like substitute teaching, and then I, over the summer, I needed a job because I was in grad school, and I started working at your restaurant. That was like 2010. Yeah. And then I did my yoga teacher training, and then I started teaching yoga, and then I started teaching you yoga privately. Yeah. I forgot about that part of the story. 

Ben: That was my first foray into what I would call non traditional, which is ridiculous because I think it actually should be traditional for a lot of people. But I think like what people think of as, hey, you're going to go to a therapist. Let's do breath work.

Let's do that. Like it's a little bit different than I think what most people would launch into or would think about. Yeah. I was in a good head space. I was in a bad head space. I guess a good head space. right for 

Alyse: a good headspace for me to come in. 

Ben: And it was a lot, but I, it was just, I just remember there being a lot of, a lot going on and, and not feeling like there was a way to unpack it all and figure out a good direction.

So I think that's what we really started to work on. And I keep on thinking back of it's three and a half years and how much has happened and how much has gone on. That I would have probably thought it was going to happen at that, at that point.

Alyse: I think when we first started in 2020, it was more about your stress levels and anxiety and also your business partner, right?

And just like how to deal with this essentially very toxic relationship that you had found yourself in. And like you were sitting there like, how did I get here? That's essentially what it felt like.

Ben: Yeah, that's exactly. How do I, how did I get here? How do I get out? I felt completely trapped. I was living somebody else's dream and it was just pure chaos at the end of the day.

And then we've obviously unpacked over the years that I was being used and so on and so forth. And there was a lot of manipulation and it did feel like it was not. That there wasn't a way to sort of get out cleanly. And that was just beyond overwhelming. Then add all of COVID and all that was going on with that to the mix.

It was a lot. But actually, I think at the end of the day, the COVID thing was what was the tipping point in a lot of ways. Because I don't know that I would have had the time to do our sessions and to dive into this a little bit more. And I probably wouldn't have taken it. As seriously, if I didn't have the ability to sort of like be focused on it for that first month or two, and then it became a little bit more of a routine, but that kind of worked out in that regard for, for me.

Alyse: Yeah. I think COVID was like that for everybody. Everybody I talked to feels like it was such a gift for them. It definitely was for me, but it gave so many people like this. Time to actually look at themselves. Yeah. And be like, what am I doing? And then being able to refocus their energy towards what actually matters.

So yeah, so I think there was that. So we had that time that we worked together. And then I think we paused for a little bit, and then you came back to me in the spring of. So like a year, a little over a year ago, or maybe like a year and a half at this point. And I feel like that's really where the crux of the work began that I really want to dive into today.

And if you don't mind talking about the nitty gritty a little bit of this, because I think it's so powerful for people to understand. And especially from your perspective, right, because a lot of the guests I have on my podcast are like women, they do similar stuff to what I do, and you are. just in a completely different realm in a lot of ways.

But the way that there's so many parallels in just relationships and how we literally create the same relationship dynamics, no matter who we are, where we are in the world based on a lot of what happened growing up, and this is what we saw happen. So I remember you came to me. In the spring of 2022, and you were like, all I really want is to get out of this relationship, right?

This business partnership. Yeah. All I want to do is be separated from this person, and I don't know how to do it. I feel completely entangled in it. So can you talk about that a little bit and tell us kind of the story of that? 

Ben: So I had been in a business relationship for probably eight years at that point and doing a lot of different things, a lot of different businesses, and we were friends or supposedly friends.

As it turns out, I don't think we were friends at all ever. And we never really did things the way I wanted to do them or pursued exactly what I wanted to do. It was very much top down directed by my partner. And I was a little passive in that, which is not like me. It was kind of a weird feeling to be.

I'm not, I don't think most people who know me would think that would be the case or that I'd be able to sort of be pushed into stuff like that. But I, I was, and I just didn't want to make waves in a lot of ways. And we ultimately figured out a lot of, a lot of things as to why I was. I was thinking that, but I was very much, I felt stranded.

I just sort of, no real place to turn, I should say. And no real path that made sense. It was just a lot of chaos. And I think the first time, you know, I met was a little bit more of just like getting into it, getting into the breathing, getting into the lack of the stress, calming down, slowing things down.

I remember saying before COVID that like, I'd always wanted to have. Like a week where time stood still, but like I was still awake for it and you could still live. And that was, it was a weird gift that COVID actually was exactly what I dreamt of without the giant pandemic. Yeah. I think we should have one every year, not with the pandemic, but a break like that because it was really.

It was really helpful to be able to take the time to sit back, not have to focus on outside issues at all. You remember that, especially the first couple of weeks, it was like really interesting because nobody was doing anything. There was no banking. There was the simplest things weren't really happening.

So the world kind of froze and you could say, take a few minutes or weeks to just analyze What the hell you were trying to do, what you wanted to do, where you were going, and I think that sort of started the process for us. And then I, as the world opened up, I definitely drifted a little bit away from it just because of getting back into a routine and not being able to prioritize, frankly, meditation or breath work or anything.

And I always have this thing in my email inbox where I leave things unread, the things that I want to do at some point. And your last email was. Like, highlighted as the last of my saved, olded, unread things, and it just taunted me for a while, because it was like a year at one point. I was like, I literally haven't replied to this in a year, and I need to do it.

But we did, and I'm glad that I was able to reach back out and get involved, because at that point, I think I'd at least integrated the breathwork and meditation into my life a little bit. And enough that I knew the concepts, I knew what you were talking about, and I just needed to sort of like now double down and take it seriously, if that makes any sense.

Like, I think a lot of things sometimes, but it's a lot harder to like, take that leap and do it. You know, it's like easy to say it, but to do it was a little bit more difficult. And it's also kind of just believing it, you know, a lot of what you have said. Is that I like and I use a lot is that like, things are going to happen the way they're going to happen, which is the right way that they're going to happen.

It's probably better than you expect. Maybe it's not as great as you think it will, as you hope, but it's not gonna be as bad as you think it is. And I remember for me, I was always living in this sort of terrible headspace of the negativity. So in my mind, I thought that it was better if I just thought through every worst possible outcome and then lived it.

Yeah. Without just being like, okay, this is the process. This is stressful. Yeah, of course, but one foot in front of the other, things are going to turn out. And it wasn't until like I thought about it, acted in a certain way, and then watched things happen that I've realized over the course of the past two years, that that does happen.

It's like clockwork. And never, any point has the worst thing that I've thought of happened. And oftentimes it's way better than I thought. And even when it's not, it's even just, I'm going through something right now where I'm dealing with the renegotiation of a lease. And I used to like hang on every word, every email reply and I'm leaving it up to somebody else who's helping it out.

And we got an email yesterday and it was like 90 percent there with a few digs that I didn't didn't really like. And it old me used to be like, I'd be panicked and freaking out about that. And I'm like, it's going to happen. We're going to figure this out. It's going to work out some way. And I think that's really huge.

That's the crux of I think what I've taken from this is to sort of live in the moment and it's funny because I have this. I wish I could read it because I have it in my bathroom. I have this piece of art I got in California and it basically just says like linear minded people are driven mad by life because it never word.

It happens the way that they've painstakingly planned for it to happen and that if you live life in the moment, essentially like a surfer and a wave and just ride the wave of life, your needs will eventually be satisfied. And I think I paraphrased that actually pretty well, but I, I've always liked that, but I never lived it.

Like I thought I lived it or I believed it and it just took until the past two years to actually. live it. And it's just, it's a work in progress for sure. 

Alyse: Yeah. I think that for you, one of the things that I remember I, I always say is, you've chosen this life, right? That has all of these unknowns all the time.

First of all, being in real estate, there's always so much. red tape and bureaucracy and annoying things with paperwork and things falling through. And I think that was one of the biggest things that we worked on too is just being an allowance of all of that without letting any of it affect you or taking it personally.

Ben: Taking it personally was a huge part of that, yeah. 

Alyse: And this is why I kind of want to go into the deeper stuff now, because it's why were you taking it personally? And I think just to go back with, and you don't have to like, go into all the details of this relationship that you had, but I think this was representative of kind of like, the way you were relating to yourself and the world that was causing all of this drama and kind of feeling trapped and like, making everything about other people instead of making it about yourself.

So can you just talk a little bit about how that transition was like from you getting into this business partnership where I think a lot of it was just because you felt like, Oh, this will be something where I am connected to somebody who knows what they're doing. I feel safe in this. And then it just ended up being.

pretty much the opposite of that, right? And then a lot of it was you saying yes and trying to fix everything instead of actually like, holding your own boundaries and saying what your truth was. And then ultimately us realizing where that comes from, right? So I'm gonna let you talk, but I'm just like seeding the ideas because I know this is like a little hard for you to talk about, but I think it's important to illustrate the transformation from like the way you were. Relating to yourself and to business and all of that versus how you are now. 

Ben: You're right. And honestly, it's necessarily difficult to get involved in or to discuss. It's just, there's so much. It's hard to figure out which direction to go to, to explain. But I think the easiest way to sum it up is. What I didn't, I actually didn't know, I mentioned I lived in Philadelphia with my husband, so obviously I'm gay.

That was a huge part of this, you know? Not that I came out, that was years ago, but it was sort of understanding what that process had done to me, and how I always felt a little bit of an outsider, less than, not really trusting my gut, intuition, so on and so forth. Constantly trying to be somebody or something to other people, to sort of live what they wanted, because I wanted to be included, I wanted to feel a part of something.

Alyse: And can I just have you clarify, sorry, that you knew that you were gay since you were what, like eight, seven, eight years old? 

Ben: To answer. I said like, yeah, around then, probably like 10 or nine, but I don't remember the differences between seven, eight or nine or 10 at this point. I was a young, a young kid. I think about when you would know that you were into guys, right? Like it's the moment you realize that everybody else is, and you're not, and you're like, oh, okay, great. That's fun. 

Alyse: Right. So I just say that to say this is something you've been carrying for a long time that kind of shaped the way you. 

Ben: Made how, how I encountered. I internalized a lot of things. I solved problems on my own. I didn't reach out to other people for them. I was told I was smart for most of my life. I guess I am, theoretically, in like the, the traditional way that we, you know, the metrics that we use. I've been fortunate enough to go to a good. High school, college, all that stuff.

So a lot of times it felt like, why should I have any problems? You know what I mean? There was that, which is just a huge part of our, the generations older than us and what we've had to deal with in their mindsets and their ways of thinking. And my parents are much like yours. You know them very well and you had to be perfect.

You had to get A's, you had to do this. And I still talk to my dad about it because he still was like, Oh, we didn't, we weren't that bad. We're like, you remember like Haney's don't get a, don't get anything less than A's. That stuck with me my entire life. At any time that anything ever was. tough or bad, I thought I couldn't deal with it or couldn't have it happen.

So I had to solve the problem myself internally. And a lot of times that created further problems or I surrounded myself with people that I thought I was, and in this case with my business partner, it was like I was in with something. It was like, it was, I was a part of something, a friendship, a real estate career, whatever it might be.

But like there was something I felt like I was a part of. And frankly, I believe he used that. And I think he knew and he was a master manipulator and I think he saw that and he used it and figured out what he wanted from the relationship and took it leaning on my issues and it really wasn't until we, I started to call him out on it, which was in the past year.

I mean, I kind of called him out like when we started this whole process, but it was just sort of weird and there were so many things going on that it was easy to sort of dismiss and I couldn't completely cut him out of my life until we got to a certain point. And that happened obviously this year when I figured out some of the stuff he was doing.

And I was like, you had been telling me for a while, block him, get him out. I was like, I really can't logistically, like we have to finish stuff. But then it was like, wait a minute, the open lines of communication are doing nothing but creating more problems. It's not helping anything. It's doing everything on his terms, not on my terms.

I'm not looking out for myself. And it was really, I think the moment I started to do that and shut him out. Of my life that everything started to pivot for the better and doesn't mean there aren't any hiccups. You know what I mean? And that's I think the whole point of what you what I was trying to say earlier is there's still going to be the issues and that's there's still going to be stressors, but I don't wake up in the morning with the abject panic that I used to have at all.

I do occasionally, but I know how to get out of it. I mean, there's days where I'm like, I just feel a little off, but it's not weeks, months, the way it was before. 

Alyse: Yeah. And I just want to highlight a couple of things. One, I remember like when we came back to working together in that spring of 2022. I remember, like I said, the first thing you said to me is I need to get out of this relationship and I was like, okay.

That's going to be what we do. We're going to get you out of this relationship. And I looked at it from like this higher level energetic perspective. And I was like, okay, what's actually happening here? What on a like relational pattern is he creating in this? And that's when we went really deep into How you felt when you were younger about being gay and then your parents, relationships with your parents and how that was all being recreated and then once we figured that out, and it wasn't even about cutting him off, blocking him and all that, of course that's important, but like actually shutting him out of your consciousness.

Ben: That was the huge part, yes. That's still a work in progress. 

Alyse: Of course, but you're doing so much better, like even talking about it to people. Remember, I was like, just don't even talk about it to anyone. And if you find yourself, 

Ben: and that was the issue is I would always talk with my husband about it. Yeah.

And he got to the point where he was getting frustrated. There was like, all we were discussing and it was just like this Debbie Downer moment for forever. It's weird. I think about it a couple of years ago and just think. I really didn't think there was a way out. I just thought I had to deal with this, like, forever. And I'm like, this is terrible. Not fair. 

Alyse: Well, and let me just clarify for the listeners, too. The reason why you thought that is because you guys had so many entanglements. You owned a ton of properties together. Yeah. There was a ton of ways you were connected. So just, it's not like, just like you thought.

Ben: Right, exactly. And frankly, I mean, we've unraveled much of it. We're down to a few things. It was very difficult to rip the Band Aid off and to really do that final thing because. Truly, I was afraid for much of our relationship of explosion. I'm sure people are familiar with these types of people where I call them my keyboard cowboys.

Like they can't possibly meet in person, can never articulate a thought in person. But if you put them behind a keyboard, be it an email or in this case, text message, the harassment that they can produce is wild. I would try to keep up and I would try to argue every point. And I remember thinking like all these issues that I would have.

Like, I would have plenty of issues, and I'd never feel comfortable explaining them, because, for fear of an explosion. And what I learned was, he's had this power over everybody in his life. And everybody has dealt with this, and everybody... is trying to avoid the explosions. And that's his technique, I think, actually.

Alyse: Well, it's like the classic narcissist empath relationship, right? And you were in that role. But then once you dismantled yourself from being in that role, I remember When you told me, and this was probably a couple months ago, that I think it was like one of the final properties that you had, you found out that, you know, you could basically get out of it, essentially.

I don't remember the details. And I was like, Oh my God, it's happening. Yeah. We did it. 

Ben: I know. And I think that one is still going and we're still working on the details. But yeah, it's one of those things and I don't like to even think about this. It's like, if I had started this sooner, it would have been a lot better.

But it is what it is. You do it. It happens when it's supposed to happen. And I guess I was. Yeah. Like I said, I think COVID was the time where I was supposed to have this pivot, this rebirth of some sort. I was miserable for so long. And I say, I've said it in eloquently to my husband, where I was like, the best 10 years of the worst 10 years of my life.

We met 10 years ago. 

Alyse: So he doesn't like that comment. 

Ben: No, and I wouldn't either if I meant it in the way he could take that I meant it. But what I meant was I had a horrendous business. Relationship for the past 10 years and I felt like it was occupying all of my time and I probably it did affect my marriage In a lot of ways and frankly i've learned a lot of what we've gone over with with the business I've learned that business partnerships are very much like marriage in a lot of ways and in fact a lot of sometimes more difficult to unravel than marriages and But there's a lot you can take and apply that what we've what i've learned to marriage as well.

I think it's, it's definitely applicable. It's relationships in general. I think that's exactly what's happening. It's nice to see it come together, which in the beginning, I think a lot of people would say, Oh, you're, you're gonna meditate. You're gonna breathe. Oh, you're just gonna say everything's fine.

Great. And it's not that it's not even remotely that, and it's, it's hard to explain, I think exactly what the whole process is, but it's just focusing on yourself, taking a deep breath. Not panicking, realizing that your intentions are right, you're going in the right direction and doing the best you possibly can in the moment, I think is the, the takeaway.

Alyse: It is. I want to talk about the restaurant too, but I also just want to go a little bit deeper into some of the deeper reasons why, not only the deeper reasons why you got into the relationship, but also the patterns that were holding everything in place and the sense of like how we kind of uncovered that the reason why you were.

staying in this is because you were feeling shame around getting in it. So you were trying to fix it, right? Instead of just like letting yourself off the hook and being like, you know what, I made a mistake, but now I'm just going to move on. You were, Like beating yourself up and like replaying that shame that you felt as a child and feeling like if I fix this relationship, if I fix these problems, then I won't have to feel the shame.

Ben: Yeah. It was all internalized. Yeah. 

Alyse: Yeah. It was all internalized. So like, as we kind of helped you let go of the shame, then it just became obvious to let go of this relationship, it was almost like then you had the self worth and the confidence in yourself to just be like, why am I putting up with this?

But it was like you had to kind of release the shame. 

Ben: It felt like it was my role, like I was obligated to deal with it for a while and that I had put myself into that, and in a lot of ways I did, obviously, but I totally agree. There was a, like an embarrassment of how this got this far, and in a lot of ways it was like, Why am I dealing with this person?

Like I find him repulsive, frankly. It's a fact. I, I, I just, there were things he would do and say, and I'm like, I am not this person at all. I don't want to be associated with this person. That was it. That was the hard part to get away from when you started to hear other people say things about that person.

And it was like, Hmm, great. Like now they're thinking of me when they're thinking of all of that. And that was really hard to unpack because it was me just being, it goes back to the gay thing, right? Just trying to keep it all in check. Do it all myself, solve all the problems, and be perfect. It was that sort of like combo of it all back in my brain.

It was like, okay, you got yourself here, so now you can sort it out. And you can't bring anybody else in to figure it out. And you certainly can't call him out on anything, because you don't want to have an explosion. You don't want to get it any worse. And that was always the fear. Obviously, the one thing you learn in all of this is the sooner you tackle any of this, the better, the better it is.

Alyse: And then it just all started to flow. And the other thing I think that came on the other side of this was you really starting to. Be so much more in your power when it came to business. And now our work is so much about just use your fucking intuition. You don't have to explain your decisions to anybody. Just go.

Ben: And I did. So you remember, I was just so obsessed with trying to defend everything I did or move or every move I made as though it was like bad. I'm like, no, I did whatever I could do in the moment to do any of these things. It was all with the best of intentions. But you're right. I think the thing that I haven't really said it as far as I spent a lot of time feeling like a failure in a lot of it, which was odd because if a lot of people had looked from the outside, they would have not thought that.

And that probably made it even worse in my mind, because there was even more pressure there. But what I ended up finding out was that like, while the overall situation may not have been great, there were a lot of individual wins along the way that were. And still continue to this day, you know what I mean?

Like when you see the different steps, if you think about where we were three years ago to where we are now, I was like 60 problems, then now we're down to two or three. That's a success in and of itself. 

Alyse: The way you say it. Yeah. 

Ben: And then think about the restaurant. We had to shut down for COVID. It was shut down for COVID when we first started talking.

And there was a plan of do we just And I think this was an issue that a lot of restaurateurs had, which was like, do we just adapt and try to be something we're not, like say a market or something like that? Do we take all the funding and just keep people employed for eight weeks for knowing that it's going to be two years?

None of that ever really made a lot of sense to me. We had no, we didn't have that ability, frankly, we were going to go out of business. We were a new business to begin with that was struggling anyway. So again, we used COVID as a little bit of a rebirth. And I don't think that everybody that was on the team thought that we should do that for a while.

I was like, absolutely not. I'm not getting into the restaurant. And there's a lot to be said about when you just walked away. I don't think it really would have worked out that way. But theoretically, I think some people would have. And we doubled down and just reinvented what the place was. 

Alyse: You say we, but it was really you. So I think that is an important piece of this because I think at the time, everyone was probably like, let's shut down based on what you said. And you were like, no, I think that I can reimagine this and do it in a way like you had a vision for what you thought it could be and what you thought it could look like.

And you. Ran with that and let's talk about that because I think that is another really important piece of our work together and how you really turn things around and created your vision. 

Ben: Right. Well, I mean, it was a lot of trusting the intuition and definitely in the beginning it was like I felt and I think actually one of the things I've worked on in this process you might agree or disagree is that in the beginning I was very.

And my personality is that I want to ask everybody for their opinion and I want to get everybody's opinion. I think we talked about this a couple weeks ago. Yeah. And at some point that becomes ridiculous because it's like you're just not trusting yourself at all. And it's one thing to have feedback and think about it.

But I had to learn as a 40 year old at the restaurant who employs people that are older than me and younger than me, that I'm the one that they look to. So I can't be unsure. They do look to me to think about where the, what the direction is and solve the problems. So, I have to be confident in that. And in this instance, I just had to trust my gut and it looks like it's working out.

It is working out. We're two years in. There are still struggles and we're going to have to get through the next year, but I think we have, everything is in motion and you and I talked, we were worried in the summer that we weren't going to make it to the fall and we did. So yeah, that is a success and we've been able to create a really good staff and it's growing and people like it, which at the end of the day, I think is probably the most important part is that people go in.

And they love the atmosphere and the vibe, what we're trying to do, we call ourselves an upscale pub for adults. If you used to go out to elbow to elbow bars, you still want to go out and drink and have a good time, but you do not want any of that. That's what our spot's for. And I think people see it. And it's nice to see that people, when people see it, it's nice to see that they see the vision and then they start to get it.

Yeah. It's been a slow build because it's just post COVID. That has been maybe a little bit of a confidence booster for sure. Not a little bit, a lot. And a victory to note for sure. 

Alyse: Well, yeah, because I remember at one point you were like, I don't know if this is going to work. And we talked about you holding this really strong intention around it.

And like we were talking about you being like the leader of the ship, the driver of the bus, whatever you want to say, and your energy and intention really affecting the outcome. And then it was like, when you had, you started having, you were like, This has been the best month we've ever had. This has been the best week we've ever had.

That kept coming over and over again. And then you're like, I think this is working. And I was like, it's because of your energy and your intention. And you were, and you like changed the subject.

Ben: Yeah, it definitely, that has been, it's been nice to watch. And I think you're a hundred percent right. Like it is. I have to give myself more credit for that. And that, that has been part of this journey is like trusting myself and trusting that you have the tools in place. And I think the other thing is I was hearing somebody, I don't remember where it was over the past couple of days.

Somebody mentioned how a W2 income, a job, a nine to five job is not a guarantee anymore. Like it maybe it was years ago. And I think that's part of the mindset is because. You think that, like, when we're talking about the restaurant, like, this isn't successful. I guess now it is. It's getting there. But you don't know what's gonna happen.

We don't know what's gonna happen in a couple years. And you can't live constantly fearing that. Because there's nothing constant in life. And there's nothing guaranteed at all. So I think it is better to just drop that mindset and, Do I know where it's gonna be in ten years? I have no idea where we're gonna be.

Truly none. And that's okay, I think. And that's the part that we have really gone over. It's okay to not know. You don't have to plan for everything. Be very comfortable in your own skin and be confident in what you're doing and go from there. I think that's been the takeaway, right? I think that's the main, that's the main takeaway.

Alyse: Yeah. And also just like it's being comfortable in the discomfort or feeling safe and solid within yourself, even within the uncertainty because we always talk to about how our parents had. These jobs that they didn't have to like worry about where the money was coming from, but at the end of the day, they had a very, well, at least my parents.

Ben: Because you guys are both, yeah, you were both in education. I got half, half and half. So I did, I think so a little bit of the other side, but. 

Alyse: Yeah, but also I know where my paycheck's coming from, but it's just going to be enough for me to live and like. Possibly go on one vacation a year maybe 

Ben: maybe or save until you like retire and do it and that's the most depressing thing is if you've ever seen any of those people that literally they're talking about going to Europe their entire life and I saw this somebody I knew and it was like then they retired and then they died and it was like wow you need to do more as you go but that was but your I think your point was just like you kind of are handcuffed you have consistency and guarantees of sorts you're giving up a lot for not a lot in return but for stability I guess. 

Alyse: Exactly. And especially now, that's different too, right, because even people who have jobs, there's not the same job security like there was. And also, I think the point of saying all this is there's nowhere that you're going to get that safety outside of you. Like it all comes from within you. And I think that's one of the biggest Takeaways too is like to find that space within yourself within all of this that's going on because like, you have a lot going on probably more than a lot of people.

Ben: I've had a lot going on. I've been trying to sort of... 

Alyse: Yeah, but still, even now, you have various properties, various projects, a restaurant. And you're always like excited about doing something else. That's your spirit. That's who you are. So I think it was just also about letting go of some of the programming and stresses and just like old ways that you thought you had to operate so that now you can truly operate the way that you're meant to, which is just to be in your intuition, create new things, bringing your visions to life, and that's just who you are.

Ben: Yeah, and to speak up for yourself and like not be worried about saying what you mean and life's too damn short to Live somebody else's life at the end of the day or be too silent. Don't regret it I'd rather just say it all and be like, hey, okay fine. We don't agree But i'm not being passive anymore I wish and not a wish but it would have been nice to have gone through all this 10 years ago And see where I I would be But it's fun to think about like rebuilding things and getting back and doing things a different way.

And also like doing things that you want to do. You know what I mean? That's the end of the day. What's the point in what we're doing? I look at it and I like to go to the Virgin Islands and that's where I want to retire. And we spend time with family and we like to ski. Like the Phillies to last week. You know, 

Alyse: you guys love to travel. You guys travel more than probably anybody I know.

Ben: We love to travel. So yeah, yeah. Well, last year I feel like we traveled to every destination wedding. I was taking a giant break and haven't traveled at all. That's great. But I do like, we do love to do all those things and I think that's what's important.

And so that's the goal. It's not to work. And I don't, that's never been my mindset. Maybe when I was a kid and I was in high school and I was trying to get straight A's, I would focus on that and like really be focused on the work ethic. But now I find a lot of that people that are that way or scare me a little bit that they just want to work for work sake.

I think you're a little off. 

Alyse: Well, I also think that's when people are kind of just disconnected from Yeah. And what they truly want, you know, and the, the other thing that I really want to touch on is your relationship with your husband and how that improved through the course of our work together.

Ben: It has improved a lot. We talk a lot about how, you know, not to bring it all back to COVID, but I think that there's, for me, there's a before and after. 

Alyse: Oh, I think for everyone. 

Ben: Yeah. Exactly. And then a lot of people I know ended relationships over COVID. And I think that my husband and I would say that we could have easily gone both ways and I would have maybe put money on ending going into COVID because we weren't communicative.

We didn't, even before we got married, we didn't talk about things you should talk about. We just did. And I think he did a lot of what he wanted to do and putting his head down and not having the conversation. I did a lot of just. Solving the problems behind the scenes and sucking it up and going along with whatever. And... 

Alyse: it sounds like another relationship. We were just talking about . 

Ben: Exactly. So that's exactly, so once I started to see it, and the, the thing that's tough, that has been tough for me is like articulating it to my husband because I don't want him to think that it's the same. 'cause it's not, there's a very different, there was a manipulative person on the other side that actively trying to screw around. 

Alyse: Yeah, it's not that he's like, it's you. It's how you were showing up. 

Ben: We actually had this conversation last night, and I was like, I have to say more. I have to be, like, I'm not saying it in a bad way, but I want you to know what I'm thinking, like, at all times. I want you to know what's going on.

And I think that's what we've done. We've been way more communicative. I've also learned to pause. Frankly, there's a lot of times where we have issues and I can, we're having an argument and I'm like, you know what? I need to go up and do some breath work. And it's been great. And I think he would say the same thing.

It he, it's a night and day from where I've been or where I was to where I am now in my head space. Listen, I think I've learned a lot about Me Too things. That I used to do, one thing that we do in our relationship, we talk about this a lot, my husband and I, is that I like to solve problems right now, and he likes to take a deep breath and like, think things through, and that was a big problem in our relationship.

He would say I belabor the point, but I just wanted to get through it, solve it, let's move on to the next thing, and I'm easy to move on once things are solved. Um, and he's gotta think about it, and feel it, and you know, all this stuff, and we're just very different when it comes to that, but this has opened my mind up to how he operates.

Vice versa, and also like made me slow things down a little bit. And I think that's where, where you've come in a lot of this is, I don't have to solve every problem right away. It's okay that we're going to have an argument, and I'm not going to be thrilled for a little bit. 

Alyse: Also, a trauma response, like thinking that you have to solve it now because you don't feel safe to just let it go.

Ben: Because, and it's urgent. It's an emergency, essentially. Everything is... An emergency. That's the issue. 

Alyse: Yeah. And that's something we talked about is how you are treating everything in life as if it was an emergency. And I think that comes from childhood stuff. It also just comes from society and the way that we've been.

It's like the fight or flight mentality. It's like constantly being like, Oh my God, bracing for disaster. And I think that you lived that way for so long that you projected that into all areas of your life. 

Ben: And that made things worse on both sides. Like that definitely made things worse in my marriage and probably in my business partnership.

Because I probably was a little bit more like because I was beating around the bush so much and not really getting a lot of face time, the moment that I did it was like a brain dump of everything. And that probably was overwhelming. So I've learned a little bit to pull back. We've also talked that, and this is ridiculous, that at age 40 I learned that I have ADHD.

In some level, or a lot of those, and I never was, I don't even know, I asked my dad, I was like, did you, he was like, oh, we've known forever, we just never really thought it was important to tell you, I'm like, maybe, maybe it was, it explains how my brain works and how I operate with everything, and it's been interesting, but like, that's what we've worked on too, is like, for me, I gotta slow things down a little bit.

And focus at one, at one thing at a time because it can easily be paralysis just by being overwhelmed and being involved in so many things. And that's what I was doing. I think I got involved in so many things just appease that part of me and also to take my mind off of probably in the beginning that I was gay, not having to deal with that.

And then it just sort of builds from there. It's like these coping mechanisms. Yeah. So it's fun now to be like, okay, at 40, I can start again. And I can think. I don't have to think that way. And I don't. It's a very calming state to be in. 

Alyse: Yeah. And I feel like you're in this state of like just like even last week when you're like, Hey, I'm thinking about selling this property.

And I feel like you were just even not that's right or wrong, but just the way you said it is just, you're so much more just like Relaxed and following your intuition versus being like, Oh, my God, I have to do this or I have to do that. Or is this right? Or is this wrong? And it's just like a completely different way of being.

Yeah. And then the last thing I just want to touch on before we wrap up is I know one of the things and when we talked about this a little bit, but you know, you would struggle with just going down these like black holes of anxiety and worrying about everything. And now I feel like even if that does happen, you're able to get yourself out of it so much more quickly.

Can you talk about that a little bit of just like the progression of, you know, what that was to what it is now? 

Ben: Yeah, I think a lot of people have probably experienced this where you just that sort of like pit in your chest. You think of something and then you think of the next thing and it's the worst thing and it's the worst thing and the worst thing and the worst thing and the worst thing.

And I really think for me, it's... That's what has helped there is that a take a deep breath, you don't have to solve this right now. And my husband's really good about that. Actually, he's a big proponent of saying that that's helped. It helps in this whole process to have other people surrounding you who are open to.

The journey, you know what I mean? I think it would be an absolute disaster to be married to somebody who was anti any of this or growth or anything, because that would be a problem, but so part of it was like slowing things down. I take a deep breath, sometimes I meditate, sometimes I do breath work, but I think the main thing, which is what we've talked about, and I've, I've repeated it a couple of times is that things are not going to be as bad as you think that they are like, this is just something that's in your head and a response to whatever.

And you're now compounding it and making it worse. And so it's just reminding myself that things are going to happen as They're supposed to and the best possible way. And I need to trust in that because I've made as best I can in the calls that I can do. And I think that helps. And also you said this a lot, you know, I used to stress a lot and I still do stress about payments, recurring payments every month, right?

It's in real estate, they're always mortgages. There's always payments and big payments and we're dealing in dollar amounts that most people don't deal with. You know, you're writing tens of thousands of dollars of checks constantly. So, that takes a while to get into that headspace. I just had to take a deep breath and realize things are going to be okay, things are going to work out, and I've already handled this before, 80 million times.

And that was the, like, I handled it last month, the month before, the month before, the month before, and things were a lot worse. At different times in the past. So we got through that. So that's been the thing that I've really, that's really stuck with me. It's like the take a deep breath, pull back, slow things down.

Things are going to be fine. And that doesn't mean it's like raw, everything's great. But it's because you believe in what you've done. And then just also like just being in the moment, not having to plan. I think that for me was the biggest problem was I used to think that it was beneficial to have a plan for the next six months.

Like, if I didn't know I had enough money for everything for the next six months, I'd be panicking. And that's ridiculous, because so much can change in that time. So I now am more like day to day, week to week. And that's it. But I used to think living in that, that world was, what would I say, like, protective.

Was responsible, I would say. It was responsible.

Alyse: Yeah. Are we irresponsible to not It was irresponsible 

Ben: to not live that way. And then Yeah. That's what I mean. But in reality, I was just putting myself into the, like, in the spectrum of possibilities. I was putting myself into the world's worst option. And I lived there. Yeah. So if it happened or it didn't happen, I lived there. 

Alyse: Yeah, no, I love that you said that, because so much of what we talk about is there are infinite possibilities, right? And you, if you live in that world, there's infinite ways that this could work out. in my favor. There's infinite possibilities of how things could get better instead of being in like, okay, this is the only reality that could happen. And I need to make sure that this happens. It's like a very unfun way to live. 

Ben: Yeah. I mean, it's remember what, actually one of the first things that you and I did was you had me delete Twitter three years ago. 

Alyse: I think I had you delete CNN, too. 

Ben: CNN, it's still deleted. I don't have any news apps with the BBC on my phone.

And I do look at Twitter, but I'm only allowed to look at Twitter on, like, a browser. I can't actually have the app downloaded. So I have to look for something, a link, so I can get it if I want to read something. But I thought I couldn't do that. And a lot of what I was like, I want to read the news. I like to know the news.

And you're like, why do you need to know the news? I was like, you're nuts. You're absolutely nuts. Why do I need to know the news? I mean, look around. We

But it really doesn't affect you until it does. And you don't need to care about what 90, 000 people are responding to in their thoughts. And I would get really, like, involved, stressed out over what people were saying. Not about me, just about in general, about, like, the news. And it's been really cool to pull back from that and be like, and I said this to a friend of mine in real estate.

He's a big Debbie Downer a lot. And he's been that way for forever. And he's great. But like, it's always like the absolute worst is about to happen. And I was like, dude, I was like, I'm not living in that headspace because if that's going to happen, it's going to happen. And when it happens, we'll all be in that headspace.

And that is what it is. But odds are, it's not going to happen. And I'm not in for, I'm not open to live that way for the next six months to get there. It's like this recession everybody's been predicting for the Nate, let's just see what happens. I mean, people have been living the past year and a half like this is some guarantee.

I thought it was supposed to happen last year. Right. And yet it's like people are like, I can't do anything because oh my God, this recession is coming. But is it? I don't know. It doesn't seem like it from when I look around my neighborhood. Yeah, gas prices and mortgage prices are through the roof, but like a lot of other things are happening.

I don't know. I mean. it's just a different headspace. Like it's shifting how you, you analyze the world.

Alyse: It is a different headspace. Yeah, and I feel like you have actually, are naturally really good at that, because you're able to see beyond. You're like, okay, everyone says we're in a recession, but. I'm still moving and grooving, I'm selling shit, I'm buying shit, like, you're not worried about that.

And I just feel like that's how you naturally are. And now that you've cleared away whatever was in the way of letting you be that way, now you can just like fully allow yourself to move in this way that you're just designed to move, which is really awesome. Right. I agree. Yeah. So, any last thoughts that you want to share?

Anything that we missed just about, just in general, the difference? I know one of the things that is occurring to me is I know you mentioned a couple weeks ago your, one of your friends commented and just how different you seem now, which I thought was really cool. 

Ben: Zen Ben. That's what they call me. Yeah, I have a friend that I've known for forever and she, she refers to me as Zen Ben since this has all started.

I love that. Which is true. I'm also just like a lot more chill. I don't know. I, which I think is the Zen part. I just, I'm happier. I don't know why you don't have more guys in your stable of clients. 

Alyse: Well, maybe I will now that you're telling your story. 

Ben: Maybe you will. I mean, because it has nothing to do with, I know when I read some of the stuff and it's obviously your stuff is focused more for women, especially some just because that's who your clients are, but like it is very applicable to both. It has nothing to do with. gender or sex at all? 

Alyse: No, not really. I think it's just like being open.

Ben: These things are pretty, pretty universal. 

Alyse: Yeah. And being open to applying because the stuff that I teach, like you can apply to your life in whatever it is, so. 

Ben: But you have to be willing to do it and you have to be willing to trust it. And that's the hard part. That's, that took me like two years.

Alyse: Absolutely. But now I'm just like, Oh my gosh, what if you could be this like, cutting edge real estate guy who's literally applying these like high level spiritual principles to make a shit ton of money. That to me is the most exciting thing ever.

Ben: Love it. So... And just be happy and doing what I want to do. 

Alyse: Exactly. And bringing your visions to life. I love it. Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here. I know everyone's gonna love this. And yeah, it was amazing. Thank you. 

Ben: Thanks for having me.

Alyse: Thank you so much for being here. Don't forget to subscribe to the show, leave a review and share the show with your friends who you know are yearning for this type of content. When you leave a review, send us a screenshot and we'll send you a $250 credit, you can apply to anything else in my world. You can stay connected with me by following me on Instagram at alyse_breathes and by joining my Facebook group, financial freedom for spiritual entrepreneurs, where I share all of my most fun and potent content.
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