Bonus Episode: 22 Panels Pulp Blotter Book Club 8 - The Rocketeer

22 Panels Pulp Blotter Book Club - The Rocketeer

Tad and Mark Pracht discuss the Dave Stevens masterpiece.

Transcript

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Tad Eggleston: Good morning, everybody! Welcome back to 22 panels. This is the Pulp Blotter Book Club. Mark Pratt has. Oh.

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Tad Eggleston: he's got the big artist edition.

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Tad Eggleston: Did you see that Scott dun beer has his own company, and we'll be doing those now.

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Mark Pracht: Yes.

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Tad Eggleston: I'm looking forward to that.

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Mark Pracht: I. I grab this and I, you know

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Mark Pracht: we're

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Mark Pracht: our our subject. Today. You're the host you should announce.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah, well, you you showed this big big book, and I got distracted, shiny objects. You know that shiny objects distract me. Mark, our subject today is is Dave Stevens, the Rocketeer, though I also read some of the other people's Rocketeer.

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Tad Eggleston: so yeah, no. I I watched the movie when it came out a couple of times in the theater because I was just the right age to do that

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Tad Eggleston: But but I'd never actually read the comic before now. So I'm kinda

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Tad Eggleston: even though I had like a yeah, even though I had like a billion things to read this week. I I'm glad that.

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Tad Eggleston: I'm glad that I crammed this in

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Tad Eggleston: for you. So thank you, Mark.

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Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, you know, in terms of cramming it in like it is. this is something that I'm hugely enamored with.

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Mark Pracht: you know, these books were coming out while I was

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Mark Pracht: the the initial books were coming out while I was in like junior high and high school, so

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Mark Pracht: in a way, was, you know.

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Mark Pracht: totally right up my alley, and you know, and it was right after raiders lost ark. So.

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Tad Eggleston: Apparently he did story.

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Mark Pracht: Sports.

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Tad Eggleston: Work on yeah.

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Mark Pracht: Yeah, there's we were just talking before we started about the documentary

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Mark Pracht: Dave Stevens, drawn to perfection, which is,

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Mark Pracht: well worth watching

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Tad Eggleston: And on Youtube.

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Tad Eggleston: I just saw that it's on Youtube.

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Mark Pracht: It's on Youtube, it's free. For if you're a prime Amazon prime video subscriber, it's free on there

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Tad Eggleston: And okay.

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Mark Pracht: But you know they it was a famous story where

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Mark Pracht: he was working on storyboards, and Spielberg kept telling him to take more time.

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Mark Pracht: and, you know, draw to the best of his ability, because Spielberg was gonna keep them.

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Mark Pracht: and then Lucas would come in and go like, wait. This is supposed to be fast. You're supposed to just get these done.

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Mark Pracht: director or producer, you know. But

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Mark Pracht: no, I mean for for anyone who doesn't know. You know the it's the rocketeer is a

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Mark Pracht: venerable very, very pulp fiction sort of book

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Mark Pracht: about a

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Mark Pracht: airplane pilot

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Mark Pracht: plane racer. He flies in a stunt show, who.

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Mark Pracht: through a series of escapades, becomes the holder of a rocket pack.

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Mark Pracht: and he and his Buddy Pv. Who's his mechanic?

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Tad Eggleston: But let's be fair. The escapades all, all take place after he becomes the holder of the rocket pack.

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Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, I mean.

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Tad Eggleston: Left in his plane and.

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Mark Pracht: Yeah, but there's escapades. There's.

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Tad Eggleston: There's lots of cubase to.

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Mark Pracht: Keep it.

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Mark Pracht: Yeah. Well, there's escapades to keep it, but there's also escapades that get it into his plane that don't involve him.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay.

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Mark Pracht: Anyway.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay.

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Mark Pracht: But you know, and it is. You know, I'll be the 1st to say, I think, that

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Mark Pracht: anybody who hasn't read this. It's worth looking at just for Dave Stevens. Artwork?

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Mark Pracht: Yes, which is

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Mark Pracht: magnificent, I mean, and anybody who doesn't know Dave Stevens. This is probably the best place to start.

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Mark Pracht: You know. What's mind blowing is that he really hadn't done much comic book work

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Mark Pracht: prior to this book.

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Mark Pracht: He'd mainly been in doing storyboards and animation.

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Tad Eggleston: That shows in the amount of dialogue.

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Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah.

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Mark Pracht: no. I mean, like, there, there are things about this. It is very clear that this is a book that is artwork centered. There are a number of places where.

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Tad Eggleston: I'm just looking at this page.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah. And this is this is this is not. This is indicative of a lot of pages. And I'm thinking about how beautiful it would be if

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Tad Eggleston: there were no more than 5 word balloons.

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Mark Pracht: I mean, I think that you know one of the things that I find you know, like on.

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Tad Eggleston: Actually, it doesn't make the reading of the story worse. I don't want to like make out that like. But as you were talking about how amazing he was that I happened to be flipping by this page and and noticing on a lot of pages that like

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Tad Eggleston: there's lots of tech. You don't notice.

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Mark Pracht: Well, I mean.

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Tad Eggleston: Reading.

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Mark Pracht: Yeah, I think one thing I do notice is, I'm reading.

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Tad Eggleston: Would need.

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Mark Pracht: I think.

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Tad Eggleston: Pages like this.

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Mark Pracht: Yeah,

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Tad Eggleston: Perfect.

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Mark Pracht: Like. There's an awful lot of really interesting things that I love about the way he builds pages. The one thing that I really struck me when I was reading at this time is, there's a lot of times where I'm not.

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Mark Pracht: I think the flow of balloons

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Mark Pracht: is a little confusing

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Mark Pracht: normally, when a

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Mark Pracht: crosses over a panel line

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Mark Pracht: that carries you from the panel to where it crosses over to. And that's not necessarily the case with these books.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Mark Pracht: Yeah, so

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Tad Eggleston: But I think that's also just a function of

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Tad Eggleston: He tried to tell too much while he was doing such a fantastic job, showing

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Tad Eggleston: sure which is, which is, it's so.

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Tad Eggleston: I mean, in some ways that makes it even more remarkable, because that's like, very rarely

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Tad Eggleston: the artist, 1st

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Tad Eggleston: artist, writer problem.

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Mark Pracht: well, I mean, I also, I mean, I think, that his you know, he he always Cited Kirby as a as a seminal influence. And that's very clear.

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Tad Eggleston: That's Barry Kirby. Yeah.

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Mark Pracht: Yeah, the the the artwork definitely drives everything.

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Tad Eggleston: So I will say he's a better writer than Kirby.

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Mark Pracht: I think his dialogue is better I think that he could have used an editor just like Kirby could have.

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Tad Eggleston: Definitely.

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Mark Pracht: And

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Mark Pracht: But

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Mark Pracht: you know, I think that there, you know, and I I'm gratified that you enjoyed it.

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Mark Pracht: because that is, I think that this is one of those books that if you are into graphic storytelling.

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Mark Pracht: you owe it to yourself to read this, because this is

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Mark Pracht: sort of the pinnacle of what you can do

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Mark Pracht: as a and you know, and

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Mark Pracht: Stevens blew through deadlines repeatedly.

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Mark Pracht: I mean, like.

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Mark Pracht: you know, one of the things is

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Mark Pracht: this originally appeared as a backup feature in star slayer.

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Mark Pracht: What was the company?

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Mark Pracht: Pacific?

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Mark Pracht: Yeah, Mark Mike Grell, star slayer, Mike Rell, another artist that I love dearly. But

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Mark Pracht: and they just had 2 issues where they had 6 empty pages. So Stevens was like, I can do a 12 page story.

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Mark Pracht: And then they wanted more, and it was like

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Mark Pracht: it was constantly running to catch up.

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Mark Pracht: And that's 1 of the things. When you look at that documentary where they start talking about how many people were helping him.

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Mark Pracht: especially when they get when you get to the later end, where it's like cliffs. New York adventure.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Mark Pracht: Which is like

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Mark Pracht: Jaime Hernandez, and yeah Kaluda and all of these people were were thrown in, and

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Mark Pracht: Jaime Hernandez has a great story in the in the documentary where he's talking about the scene where Betty

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Mark Pracht: the rocketeers girlfriend who is in homage to the great Betty.

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Tad Eggleston: Betty Page. It sounds like he actually like brought her back and got her paid for various things, and now she has.

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Mark Pracht: Yes, thank you.

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Tad Eggleston: A a

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Tad Eggleston: books still going on and off at, I think, dynamite.

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Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, she's passed away at this point, but.

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Tad Eggleston: But I'm certain her her estate is getting paid.

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Mark Pracht: Yes, whoever that is, I don't know but Jaime Hernandez, he was like, I need you to draw this this page where Betty Page is tied up in the backseat of a car, and Jaime Hernandez is like

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Mark Pracht: you don't want to draw Betty tied up in the back of a cup.

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Tad Eggleston: Which I love.

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Mark Pracht: Anyway. But no, I think that

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Mark Pracht: there's a

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Mark Pracht: there's so much I love about this book. And

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Mark Pracht: I'm flipping through this already.

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Tad Eggleston: I want to talk a lot about what you love about this book, but that means that since I've already gotten some of the criticism out of the way. I want to get my one other piece of criticism out of the way, so this can become a love fest. And because this is a real question for you.

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Tad Eggleston: because, because, as I as I as I said earlier, and I don't know if it was in the documentary, because I haven't seen that. But but I know elsewhere at least Steven said I could do a page a day, but they but they wouldn't be good, and as good, and I want them to be

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Tad Eggleston: perfect as I was. Just as I was just flipping back

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Tad Eggleston: through the book and marveling at the art, loving the art. I'm not.

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Tad Eggleston: My uncle Andy likes to tell his story.

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Tad Eggleston: see, my grandfather was a physicist so like he would break down the the right way to do everything. So so my uncles were getting paid to

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Tad Eggleston: paint a couple of doors.

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Tad Eggleston: you know, repaint a couple of doors like bedroom doors.

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Tad Eggleston: and they're like metal doors, and and like they, they take them out, and they're just gonna paint them and and poppers like, no, no, no. 1st you have to strip off the old paint, and then you got to put on a coat of primer, and then you got to put on another coat of primer, and then you got to put on a coat of paint, and then you got to put on another. You know this whole.

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Tad Eggleston: and when it's all said and done.

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Tad Eggleston: Peter looks at and goes

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Tad Eggleston: well, I mean does look better. Andy looks at him and goes, yeah, but not that much better.

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Mark Pracht: Here's my.

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Tad Eggleston: So here's my question. Because if I have

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Tad Eggleston: one major major complaint, it's that there's so

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Tad Eggleston: little of it. And this is why I started reading some of the stuff that people had done later. But it seems like as is common with people taking

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Tad Eggleston: characters that are so precious. To begin with. They don't actually expand the characters either. My biggest gripe is that there isn't as much character development as I would like, because there's so little.

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Tad Eggleston: My biggest gripe is that we don't get to know Cliff. We don't get to know, Betty the way we would if there were 2030, 40, 50 issues whatever.

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Tad Eggleston: So I guess what I'm asking is is the art that much better.

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Mark Pracht: in the time period.

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Mark Pracht: I mean, I can tell you, as a kid.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Mark Pracht: Picking up this book.

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Mark Pracht: It was.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay.

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Mark Pracht: I've never seen anything like this.

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Tad Eggleston: Okay,

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Mark Pracht: I I

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Mark Pracht: it just was mind blowing, and you know, and I think that

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Mark Pracht: oh, I

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Mark Pracht: like until you answer your question.

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Mark Pracht: I don't think

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Mark Pracht: I mean, I feel like.

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Mark Pracht: yeah.

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Mark Pracht: Bruce. Tim, who worked with Dave Stevens briefly, was talking about this book, and he was.

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Mark Pracht: You know. What he said was, cliff is a schmuck.

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Mark Pracht: and Cliff is a Schmuck.

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Tad Eggleston: He is.

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Mark Pracht: Like he doesn't

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Mark Pracht: he? He will step up and do heroic things sort of

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Mark Pracht: it. It's sort of the whole spider-man thing, right? You know it's like I I don't. Re, I'm looking to get money.

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Mark Pracht: and then he kind of gets forced back into a corner to where he has to do something heroic, but I do. I like. I guess I would argue with that. I think

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Mark Pracht: I think that Betty

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Mark Pracht: Betty is presented in this book is a

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Mark Pracht: symbolic ideal.

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Mark Pracht: I mean, and I won't even argue that it's just the truth.

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Mark Pracht: She is a she is a symbol of perfection.

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Mark Pracht: Because Dave Stevens thought Betty Page was perfection.

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Mark Pracht: and

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Mark Pracht: But I also think that

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Mark Pracht: so much of this, like the the personal elements of this book.

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Mark Pracht: fill in a lot of gaps for me.

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Mark Pracht: Right?

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Mark Pracht: I think that

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Mark Pracht: Cliff Secord

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Mark Pracht: is Dave Stevens.

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Mark Pracht: He's like draw. Dave Stevens draws him to look exactly like Dave Stevens.

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Mark Pracht: Pv. Pv. His mentor and mechanic is drawn exactly to look like

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Mark Pracht: Dave, widely

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Mark Pracht: or wildly. Who was the creator of Johnny Quest, who he worked with at Hanna-barbera, and was one of his 1st mentors.

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Mark Pracht: betty Page is his, you know, obsessive

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Mark Pracht: girl of his dreams.

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Mark Pracht: like, I think, that all of this is simply Dave Stevens pouring himself onto the page. And I think the reason

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Mark Pracht: that

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Mark Pracht: we didn't get more.

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Mark Pracht: And it's 1 of the things that I love that was surprising to me

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Mark Pracht: in that documentary was that Stevens had like sort of sketched out various other stories he could have told.

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Mark Pracht: but he just didn't feel like he had the time to do them as well as he wanted to. Right.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Mark Pracht: Because

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Mark Pracht: the comic book work didn't pay him as much as doing storyboards or doing advertising work or.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Mark Pracht: All of all of that. So I mean, like he had. Apparently he had a story on board where he was. Gonna have the rocketeer. Go to Skull Island and

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Mark Pracht: mix it up with the King Kong and dinosaurs and

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Mark Pracht: He had another idea where you know, like the end of the New York adventure, where Betty says that that she and Cliff will go to Europe someday.

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Mark Pracht: And then that was one of the stories he had an on the on the boards that he thought about doing

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Mark Pracht: like. I think that

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Mark Pracht: as with many people

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Mark Pracht: who and I'm not, gonna I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, I think Dave Stevens allowed

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Mark Pracht: Perfect to get in the way of the good.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Mark Pracht: And many of people who worked with him told him that, you know.

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Mark Pracht: and you know they'd be like, it's beautiful, it's perfect, and he's like, No, it's not.

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Mark Pracht: And then, you know, and

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Mark Pracht: the publishers who wanted to do rocketeer books, they'd be like

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Mark Pracht: he'd be like, it can't be monthly.

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Mark Pracht: It probably can't even be bi-monthly, you know, and I think all of these things a. It made it hard for him to make a living doing the book.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Mark Pracht: But it also made it hard to put the full energy into it, because he had all of these other things

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Mark Pracht: right and

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Mark Pracht: in a way, and I and I do. I enjoy

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Mark Pracht: the the rocketeer books that they're doing now.

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Mark Pracht: I forget who's publishing them.

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Tad Eggleston: I want to say it's

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Tad Eggleston: idw.

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Mark Pracht: I think it is. Idw, yeah, that's that's who it is. I enjoy those books. I think that they're fun. I think that they capture some of the spirit of it, but

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Mark Pracht: in a very real way.

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Mark Pracht: The fact that this book

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Mark Pracht: these

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Mark Pracht: I mean it is multiple books, I mean. But

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Mark Pracht: like, I think.

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Tad Eggleston: And issues.

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Mark Pracht: Yeah, if you purchase the the thing is a graphic novel, that's I think we can call it that

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Tad Eggleston: 100 and 22 pages. Yes.

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Mark Pracht: I think that

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Mark Pracht: this work

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Mark Pracht: as a

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Mark Pracht: little jewel

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Mark Pracht: that sits there

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Mark Pracht: is magnificent the way it is, and.

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Tad Eggleston: Absolutely.

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Mark Pracht: I I would would dearly love to see

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Mark Pracht: Rocketeer on Skull Island. I don't.

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Mark Pracht: I would hate to have thought.

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Mark Pracht: you know, even like like, I was saying, even when he got to Cliff's New York adventure.

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Mark Pracht: you know he was having to have all of his friends come in and help him with the art.

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Mark Pracht: and if it was going to be more and more of that.

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Mark Pracht: I think I would have rather

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Mark Pracht: just had it end when it did.

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Mark Pracht: I mean, and we got all sorts of other things. We got the movie, which is

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Mark Pracht: lovely in its own way.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Mark Pracht: I don't think it's quite as.

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Tad Eggleston: They didn't have time to re-watch it. But I loved it when it came out, but I was 10 or 11.

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Mark Pracht: It's 1 of my favorite movies, I mean, like, I think, that it's.

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Tad Eggleston: I thought they did a good job.

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Mark Pracht: I mean, obviously.

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Mark Pracht: you know,

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Mark Pracht: Dave Stevens is

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Mark Pracht: very much in love with the female form.

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Mark Pracht: and there are a number of

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Mark Pracht: there's a lot of cheesecake

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Mark Pracht: in this book. Yeah.

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Mark Pracht: And that, obviously was not gonna fly with a movie produced by Disney in the early nineties.

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Mark Pracht: Right. So

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Mark Pracht: And you know

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Mark Pracht: I find that a little sad. I mean I think

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Mark Pracht: I would have loved a

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Mark Pracht: I don't think it would have been r rated, but definitely like a hard Pg. 13, you know.

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Mark Pracht: would have been

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Mark Pracht: really fun, you know, to really get that that Dave Stevens thing in there.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Mark Pracht: You know. At the same time it captured so much. And I think that

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Mark Pracht: you know we can talk about.

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Mark Pracht: I like.

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Mark Pracht: I'm talking about all this conceptual stuff, but I mean, like I also.

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Mark Pracht: for being like

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Mark Pracht: I think, his.

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Mark Pracht: He did some work when he was very young.

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Mark Pracht: that.

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Mark Pracht: But I mean like this was his first, st like

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Mark Pracht: 1st or second, like full on book, where he did it.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Mark Pracht: Certainly art wise, and certainly writing in art, but I mean, like even at that, there are some pages where

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Mark Pracht: the flow of the page

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Mark Pracht: is.

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah, well, you can. You can definitely see that

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Tad Eggleston: he loved Kirby. You can see that he loved

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Tad Eggleston: old and see, this makes it make sense? He did. He did. Pencils for Tarzan newspaper strip.

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Mark Pracht: I don't think he did. Pencils. He inked

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Tad Eggleston: Oh, inked inked Russ. Manning. Russ Manning, I'm sorry. Yeah.

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Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, in, like.

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Tad Eggleston: But.

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Mark Pracht: Yeah, I have.

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Tad Eggleston: Where I was going is is that there's a lot of this

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Tad Eggleston: that reminds me of

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Tad Eggleston: old adventure newspaper

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Tad Eggleston: cartoons when

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Tad Eggleston: when they were more likely to have half a page to a page.

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Tad Eggleston: Right? You know. It. It's got layouts that are reminiscent of Roy Crane and and.

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Tad Eggleston: Hal Foster.

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Tad Eggleston: and I can't believe I know these names now, thanks to my my my comic strip club

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Tad Eggleston: that

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Tad Eggleston: was gonna record today. But we're we're we're everybody's schedules are so busy. And we gotta find figure out when when the next time that we can.

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Tad Eggleston: It's funny mark. I try to build up the book clubs so that

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Tad Eggleston: there are enough people that somebody can miss. But then we become so attached to each other that we just wind up rescheduling until we can have everybody there, no matter how many people are in it.

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Mark Pracht: Right.

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Mark Pracht: Well, I you know I I wanted to say something that.

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Mark Pracht: Specifically, I've

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Mark Pracht: looked into that.

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Mark Pracht: Dave Stevens inked

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Mark Pracht: everything with a brush.

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Tad Eggleston: I can see that.

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Mark Pracht: Use print, and

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Mark Pracht: is again watching the documentary

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Mark Pracht: like they're talking about that. That's like an unheard of skill anymore.

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Mark Pracht: Right? Like nobody inks with a brush anymore. But

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Mark Pracht: the beauty that he can achieve that

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Mark Pracht: it's just shocking.

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Tad Eggleston: Well, and I mean

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Tad Eggleston: he takes

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Tad Eggleston: I mean here, here's here's where I I both was

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Tad Eggleston: surprised and not at all surprised, when I discovered that he was involved with raiders of the Lost Ark. Because

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Tad Eggleston: what rocketeer is

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Tad Eggleston: is

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Tad Eggleston: a

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Tad Eggleston: B

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Tad Eggleston: move where I mean, it's like the the

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Tad Eggleston: the comic equivalent of doing a bee movie, a bee adventure movie from from way back when

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Tad Eggleston: I go further.

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Tad Eggleston: But like

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Tad Eggleston: blockbuster, amazing scale, I mean, it reminds me of

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Tad Eggleston: a Roy Crane, or or

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Tad Eggleston: Milt Kniff.

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Tad Eggleston: you know, who who really took those

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Tad Eggleston: daily and and and weekly newspaper strips, and like.

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Tad Eggleston: elevated them to a whole different level

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Tad Eggleston: because they were allowed to so so particularly because it's set in that period. The fact that it harkens back artistically.

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Tad Eggleston: 2.

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Tad Eggleston: The strips like like. If if there had.

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Tad Eggleston: if the rocketeer had existed

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Tad Eggleston: and somebody had told his story in comic form.

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Tad Eggleston: it would have looked like this and come out

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Tad Eggleston: in your Sunday paper.

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Mark Pracht: Sure.

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Mark Pracht: The one thing.

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Tad Eggleston: You know.

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Mark Pracht: That, I think has to be talked about is that the character is definitely a Riff

351
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Mark Pracht: on commando. Cody.

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Mark Pracht: who was famously in the B-movie serial, the zombies of the stratosphere.

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Mark Pracht: He wore a rocket pack. He had a goofy helmet, and it was it was funny, because when they asked him to do the backup.

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Mark Pracht: Apparently the original idea was they were going to do Commando Cody, and he just said, you know what? I'll change it up a little bit, so we won't get sued.

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Mark Pracht: And so

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Mark Pracht: and I think I think that that is a very simple, simplistic way of looking at it because, you know.

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Mark Pracht: Commando Cody was not. This story does not fall into what Commando Cody was. He was like a military guy, and all sorts of stuff, but.

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Tad Eggleston: Never even heard of them.

359
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Mark Pracht: Oh, man, go look it up that it you'll see it. It is, it is! It's the rocketeer, I mean, like the helmets different and and everything. But it's the rocketeer.

360
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Mark Pracht: I I think

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Mark Pracht: you know

362
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Mark Pracht: there's so.

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Tad Eggleston: Guy Marshall of the Universe.

364
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Mark Pracht: Sky. Marshall of the universe. Yes.

365
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Mark Pracht: but I mean like there's like so much of this is is pulled from

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Mark Pracht: stuff from

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Mark Pracht: 20 years before Dave Stevens was born.

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Tad Eggleston: Right.

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Mark Pracht: And there was somebody in that documentary, they said. I think he was nostalgic, not for his childhood, but for his parents. Childhood.

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Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

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Mark Pracht: But like.

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Tad Eggleston: Makes me wonder if he had, like that wonderfully

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Tad Eggleston: storytell, you know, active storytelling, like father or grandfather, that, like

374
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Tad Eggleston: either held on to stuff, or vividly remembered stuff, and therefore.

375
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Tad Eggleston: like played with them as a kid.

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Mark Pracht: I don't. I don't think so.

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Mark Pracht: at least, according to like a lot of this stuff is going by this.

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Tad Eggleston: I believe it.

379
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Mark Pracht: Which I've just had just rewatched while I was doing laundry.

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Tad Eggleston: Well, well, we'll recommend it again. Dave Stevens drawn to perfection. Amazon, Prime, or Youtube.

381
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Mark Pracht: Yeah. His father was an artist.

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Mark Pracht: He could draw.

383
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Mark Pracht: but you know, apparently they. His father was very religious, and his mother was very married. Apparently he and his mother had a very contentious relation relationship, but

384
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Mark Pracht: I mean I don't want to dig too far into that. But I think that he also was just like

385
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Mark Pracht: he grew up in San Diego. They moved to San Diego in 1972. And he started going to comic. Con.

386
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Mark Pracht: Okay.

387
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Mark Pracht: So like, like so many of these people.

388
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Mark Pracht: you know of this particular era of comics, they're all tied to that San Diego area.

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Tad Eggleston: Was he one of the kids that would show up at the Kirby house?

390
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Mark Pracht: I? It does. I don't know. I would. I would think he would be

391
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Mark Pracht: he! I know that he had a relationship with Kirby because he was one of the people that Kirby told not to go into comics.

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Mark Pracht: Okay.

393
00:28:09.664 --> 00:28:12.499
Mark Pracht: and you know, later in his life he

394
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Mark Pracht: wanted to. He wanted to move into fine art

395
00:28:18.340 --> 00:28:20.269
Mark Pracht: he actually went back to.

396
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Mark Pracht: He went back to classes. He went back to art school

397
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Mark Pracht: to learn

398
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Mark Pracht: the the technical technique that he felt that he did not have.

399
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Mark Pracht: So

400
00:28:33.863 --> 00:28:37.130
Mark Pracht: that's interesting one of his teachers is in.

401
00:28:37.130 --> 00:28:39.000
Tad Eggleston: People who want to continue learning.

402
00:28:40.230 --> 00:28:42.570
Mark Pracht: One of one of his instructors

403
00:28:43.990 --> 00:28:53.529
Mark Pracht: was interviewed in there, and he's he. It was a painting class, and he would go around to all the students, and how many, how many paintings do you want to do a week?

404
00:28:55.680 --> 00:29:01.749
Mark Pracht: if you you have to do at least one, if you're serious. You should do 3,

405
00:29:01.910 --> 00:29:04.270
Mark Pracht: and Dave said, I'll do 5,

406
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Mark Pracht: and he did 5 paintings a week

407
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Mark Pracht: every week of the 10 weeks of the class.

408
00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:11.640
Mark Pracht: Now

409
00:29:13.260 --> 00:29:16.960
Mark Pracht: part of me is blown away by that, because with this whole perfectionist streak.

410
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Tad Eggleston: Right, I'm about to say. Wait a minute.

411
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Mark Pracht: But I mean, like, I guess also you're looking at it as like it's a class assignment or whatever.

412
00:29:24.620 --> 00:29:25.460
Mark Pracht: But

413
00:29:28.320 --> 00:29:30.359
Mark Pracht: He had a studio with.

414
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Tad Eggleston: One painting, and then cut it into 5 pages.

415
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Mark Pracht: I don't know.

416
00:29:38.250 --> 00:29:45.110
Mark Pracht: But yeah, yeah, he shared a studio with Bill Stout and another artist that is escaping me at the moment.

417
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Mark Pracht: so I don't know, I think.

418
00:29:48.590 --> 00:29:54.859
Mark Pracht: but there's 1 page that when I was reading it through this last time I was like this is.

419
00:29:55.210 --> 00:29:56.590
Mark Pracht: I love

420
00:29:56.700 --> 00:29:58.639
Mark Pracht: the flow of the page.

421
00:29:59.020 --> 00:30:01.270
Mark Pracht: and it's a page

422
00:30:02.170 --> 00:30:03.680
Mark Pracht: 36

423
00:30:05.600 --> 00:30:09.980
Mark Pracht: when they're testing the rocket after Pv's fixed it.

424
00:30:10.430 --> 00:30:11.090
Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.

425
00:30:11.250 --> 00:30:13.969
Mark Pracht: And explain to him how the thing works

426
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:23.429
Mark Pracht: which I loved. It's like I'm just strapping it on and going, but it starts out with. There's this panel across the top of the page with the car.

427
00:30:23.570 --> 00:30:25.779
Mark Pracht: and they're getting ready for him to fly.

428
00:30:26.370 --> 00:30:28.340
Mark Pracht: And then you go back over

429
00:30:29.120 --> 00:30:34.969
Mark Pracht: to the left hand, and then you have this long panel that goes down the rest of the page that takes you all the way to the bottom.

430
00:30:35.860 --> 00:30:48.238
Mark Pracht: and then the next panel, same long panel that goes all the way to the top, like he takes off and carries you right to the top, and then you're back here for the 4 panels that go down the edge of the page.

431
00:30:48.590 --> 00:30:49.660
Mark Pracht: That's

432
00:30:50.970 --> 00:30:52.370
Mark Pracht: awesome layout

433
00:30:52.660 --> 00:30:56.350
Mark Pracht: like that's it. It's busy.

434
00:30:56.680 --> 00:30:59.110
Mark Pracht: but it's also just super clear

435
00:30:59.210 --> 00:31:06.149
Mark Pracht: like you. Just go boom, boom! And I think that there are. There are pages where it's not that clear.

436
00:31:06.500 --> 00:31:08.700
Mark Pracht: but that one works beautifully.

437
00:31:08.710 --> 00:31:09.730
Mark Pracht: so

438
00:31:10.860 --> 00:31:14.210
Mark Pracht: I don't know other things that I was wanting to talk about.

439
00:31:15.470 --> 00:31:17.554
Mark Pracht: I love the

440
00:31:19.190 --> 00:31:24.360
Mark Pracht: when we get to Cliff's New York Adventure and Lothar shows up.

441
00:31:24.870 --> 00:31:31.640
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, the the I I actually think I like the New York adventure more. You could sell.

442
00:31:32.950 --> 00:31:35.990
Tad Eggleston: You could tell that he was growing as a cartoonist.

443
00:31:38.060 --> 00:31:38.690
Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah. No.

444
00:31:38.690 --> 00:31:40.909
Tad Eggleston: There's another reason why I

445
00:31:43.360 --> 00:31:49.069
Tad Eggleston: it's it's 1 of those things, you know. Great cartooning is so much more than pretty. Art.

446
00:31:51.130 --> 00:31:54.709
Tad Eggleston: and he was growing in so many of the cartoonist ways.

447
00:31:54.970 --> 00:31:55.390
Mark Pracht: Right.

448
00:31:55.390 --> 00:32:02.619
Tad Eggleston: That that I wonder if he'd valued storytelling as much as he valued artistic precision.

449
00:32:05.420 --> 00:32:07.280
Tad Eggleston: Where we might have gotten.

450
00:32:08.510 --> 00:32:15.500
Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, like he had several other projects he's working on. He was working on a a animated project that he was gonna do

451
00:32:15.780 --> 00:32:16.230
Tad Eggleston: Right.

452
00:32:16.230 --> 00:32:18.000
Mark Pracht: That never came to be

453
00:32:20.810 --> 00:32:21.760
Mark Pracht: But

454
00:32:22.270 --> 00:32:24.110
Mark Pracht: no, I I just

455
00:32:24.170 --> 00:32:26.390
Mark Pracht: Lothar, which is

456
00:32:27.430 --> 00:32:29.330
Mark Pracht: that character

457
00:32:30.010 --> 00:32:31.619
Mark Pracht: is a real actor.

458
00:32:32.120 --> 00:32:32.840
Tad Eggleston: Right.

459
00:32:32.840 --> 00:32:35.599
Mark Pracht: From the thirties by the name of Rondo Hatton.

460
00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:39.450
Mark Pracht: who played the I, the

461
00:32:39.910 --> 00:32:45.490
Mark Pracht: Stalker, or something like that. He had a whole series of movies where he was like the murderous monster guy.

462
00:32:45.710 --> 00:32:50.340
Mark Pracht: It's just like like, that's the sort of thing I personally.

463
00:32:51.860 --> 00:32:53.740
Mark Pracht: I feel like

464
00:32:55.450 --> 00:32:56.690
Mark Pracht: this book

465
00:32:57.130 --> 00:33:03.720
Mark Pracht: is basically like anything that Dave Stevens loved at any point in his life. He just sort of vomited.

466
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:05.360
Tad Eggleston: Found a way to get into it.

467
00:33:05.360 --> 00:33:07.631
Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, like,

468
00:33:09.847 --> 00:33:18.070
Mark Pracht: Danny, Danny Bilson, who was one of the screenwriters of the movie, was talking about like cause. They worked very closely together.

469
00:33:19.590 --> 00:33:25.409
Mark Pracht: cause Dave actually gave them the rights to work on a screenplay for free, because they

470
00:33:25.750 --> 00:33:28.681
Mark Pracht: enjoyed each other's company so much. Right?

471
00:33:29.900 --> 00:33:32.310
Mark Pracht: But they were. He was talking about how.

472
00:33:32.750 --> 00:33:33.880
Mark Pracht: when?

473
00:33:36.170 --> 00:33:41.459
Mark Pracht: That when they were working on the movie, that the the storytelling elements.

474
00:33:41.890 --> 00:33:44.110
Mark Pracht: you know, the things that were important

475
00:33:44.170 --> 00:33:45.870
Mark Pracht: were Cliff

476
00:33:46.340 --> 00:33:47.320
Mark Pracht: Betty

477
00:33:47.730 --> 00:33:48.840
Mark Pracht: planes.

478
00:33:49.330 --> 00:33:50.369
Mark Pracht: and he's like.

479
00:33:50.520 --> 00:33:53.260
Mark Pracht: when Dave was working on the book.

480
00:33:53.800 --> 00:33:55.559
Mark Pracht: It was Betty

481
00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:57.310
Mark Pracht: planes

482
00:33:57.460 --> 00:33:58.120
Mark Pracht: clip.

483
00:33:59.310 --> 00:34:08.760
Mark Pracht: So I mean, like, that's, I think. And that goes. That goes to what you're talking about of, like, you know, is it is the is the characterization.

484
00:34:09.210 --> 00:34:14.360
Mark Pracht: simplistic, simplified and and quick. Yes, absolutely.

485
00:34:14.620 --> 00:34:17.490
Mark Pracht: But it was an opportunity.

486
00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:22.850
Mark Pracht: I think, that you have to look at why the book existed, in the 1st place, was like, we have

487
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:25.710
Mark Pracht: 2 6 page elements that we need to fill up.

488
00:34:25.710 --> 00:34:26.510
Tad Eggleston: Right thing.

489
00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:27.770
Tad Eggleston: can you.

490
00:34:27.770 --> 00:34:29.900
Mark Pracht: Give us something, and he was like, you know what.

491
00:34:29.909 --> 00:34:32.489
Tad Eggleston: In that sense it's like beyond.

492
00:34:32.889 --> 00:34:33.519
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

493
00:34:36.289 --> 00:34:41.869
Mark Pracht: just like all this stuff that I thought was fun when I was a kid watching it on the late show or whatever.

494
00:34:41.989 --> 00:34:43.699
Mark Pracht: And then it's all in there.

495
00:34:43.949 --> 00:34:47.429
Mark Pracht: I don't know. I just think I think that it is so.

496
00:34:48.110 --> 00:34:48.929
Tad Eggleston: Well, it?

497
00:34:49.710 --> 00:34:53.146
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. And you know, I think it's it's it's actually

498
00:34:54.070 --> 00:35:01.720
Tad Eggleston: interesting that the one you pull out is the artist edition. And do they have the? I know a lot of times with the artist edition that the word balloons aren't in there.

499
00:35:02.250 --> 00:35:02.580
Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah.

500
00:35:02.580 --> 00:35:03.880
Tad Eggleston: The art, right.

501
00:35:04.190 --> 00:35:09.139
Mark Pracht: Yeah, no, I actually the other. I was lucky enough

502
00:35:09.950 --> 00:35:19.160
Mark Pracht: one of the times that I was in San Diego for comic con went to the Comic Con Museum, and they actually had a exhibition

503
00:35:19.550 --> 00:35:24.347
Mark Pracht: of a whole bunch of Dave Dave Stevens originals and a bunch of his

504
00:35:26.382 --> 00:35:32.010
Mark Pracht: rock tear stuff that he had from like the movie and things. And so

505
00:35:32.816 --> 00:35:35.200
Mark Pracht: yeah, the pages are

506
00:35:35.680 --> 00:35:36.750
Mark Pracht: complete.

507
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:39.168
Mark Pracht: They are done and complete.

508
00:35:40.410 --> 00:35:50.490
Mark Pracht: they I am a hundred percent sure that Dave Stevens was spotting the balloons as well and just putting them into the artwork

509
00:35:51.010 --> 00:35:53.120
Mark Pracht: right? Which I think.

510
00:35:55.150 --> 00:36:03.539
Tad Eggleston: Also makes it crazy that there, there's so many of them so big because there's so many artists. It's like, No, don't cover my work.

511
00:36:05.260 --> 00:36:10.979
Mark Pracht: Well, I mean, you know, like it is. It is one of those things that's always really interesting to.

512
00:36:11.590 --> 00:36:20.439
Tad Eggleston: And it probably also explains some of the what you were talking about earlier in terms of like breaking panels, but not going. The right direction is like.

513
00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:20.820
Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah.

514
00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:23.739
Tad Eggleston: I need to break this panel because I don't want to cover that up.

515
00:36:23.970 --> 00:36:32.470
Mark Pracht: Yeah, I need, I need this this war balloon. But it's gonna cross over into a panel. And I'm thinking, like, Well, where does that it? It doesn't.

516
00:36:33.190 --> 00:36:37.229
Mark Pracht: It doesn't follow the the normal

517
00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:41.979
Mark Pracht: pattern of balloons that you normally have, you know well, and something like.

518
00:36:41.980 --> 00:36:47.270
Tad Eggleston: This up because I'm I'm flipping through it as we talk as I often do

519
00:36:47.869 --> 00:36:53.299
Tad Eggleston: but when I'm doing that I don't really read it. I just look at the pictures.

520
00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:59.910
Tad Eggleston: and I'm enjoying it even more. The writing isn't bad, and the writing

521
00:37:00.600 --> 00:37:02.670
Tad Eggleston: furthers the story.

522
00:37:03.311 --> 00:37:05.970
Tad Eggleston: But the writing, I think.

523
00:37:06.060 --> 00:37:07.670
Tad Eggleston: slows it down.

524
00:37:08.260 --> 00:37:23.129
Tad Eggleston: and the writing, I think, gets in the way of really appreciating how good his visual storytelling is. So I mean, I really, really, I mean going back to what you'd said before. I really really wish that that he'd had an editor.

525
00:37:23.150 --> 00:37:25.600
Tad Eggleston: or or maybe even a scriptor.

526
00:37:26.160 --> 00:37:31.503
Mark Pracht: Yeah, I mean, I I won't deny that at all. I think that there is a lot of

527
00:37:36.419 --> 00:37:44.410
Mark Pracht: When I think about I was just having a conversation with somebody about Kirby and Kirby solo work, and

528
00:37:44.510 --> 00:37:47.629
Mark Pracht: what my favorite Kirby solo work is right.

529
00:37:47.630 --> 00:37:52.269
Tad Eggleston: You were talking about Kirby recently, I mean.

530
00:37:52.850 --> 00:37:53.909
Mark Pracht: It's not, it's it's.

531
00:37:53.910 --> 00:37:55.509
Tad Eggleston: That's crazy man.

532
00:37:55.510 --> 00:37:57.320
Mark Pracht: Well, I mean I was just.

533
00:37:57.320 --> 00:38:06.889
Tad Eggleston: Closed was was a house of ideas at City Lit Theater. The the publication of the the play itself is is forthcoming.

534
00:38:06.910 --> 00:38:08.720
Tad Eggleston: Keep your eyes posted at your.

535
00:38:08.720 --> 00:38:16.310
Mark Pracht: Very soon, actually, the proof is our I've already seen the proof, anyway, that's not. That's not important right now, but it was like.

536
00:38:16.310 --> 00:38:17.060
Tad Eggleston: Know, but I.

537
00:38:17.060 --> 00:38:17.770
Mark Pracht: I had to.

538
00:38:17.770 --> 00:38:22.809
Tad Eggleston: I had to go into dad. Joke! Land! I'm sure.

539
00:38:22.810 --> 00:38:25.289
Mark Pracht: Many of my friends, as many of my friends have been.

540
00:38:25.290 --> 00:38:27.929
Tad Eggleston: There's gambling in this establishment.

541
00:38:28.321 --> 00:38:34.199
Mark Pracht: My friends are teasing me recently that you can't spell prop without pr. So whatever.

542
00:38:34.200 --> 00:38:34.590
Tad Eggleston: Ha! Ha!

543
00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:37.820
Mark Pracht: But

544
00:38:38.290 --> 00:38:40.500
Mark Pracht: I actually have a point to make.

545
00:38:40.670 --> 00:38:41.949
Tad Eggleston: I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

546
00:38:41.950 --> 00:38:42.545
Mark Pracht: It's

547
00:38:43.290 --> 00:38:44.420
Mark Pracht: Is that

548
00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:49.930
Mark Pracht: This book reminds me of my very favorite

549
00:38:50.080 --> 00:38:52.450
Mark Pracht: Kirby solo work, which is commandee.

550
00:38:53.120 --> 00:38:56.189
Mark Pracht: Okay? I think that is where

551
00:38:57.100 --> 00:39:08.859
Mark Pracht: Kirby had more focus and more of an intent on story, instead of just throwing ideas out. I think that it wasn't so ambitious

552
00:39:09.950 --> 00:39:11.439
Mark Pracht: like, I think that.

553
00:39:11.770 --> 00:39:13.599
Mark Pracht: And I think this is where

554
00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:17.320
Mark Pracht: the simplicity you're talking about

555
00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:20.860
Mark Pracht: really helps this book

556
00:39:21.210 --> 00:39:22.250
Mark Pracht: is that

557
00:39:22.660 --> 00:39:25.239
Mark Pracht: there's nothing grand going on here.

558
00:39:25.290 --> 00:39:28.650
Mark Pracht: It is a simple Hopey adventure story.

559
00:39:28.870 --> 00:39:32.899
Mark Pracht: and that allows things to not

560
00:39:33.620 --> 00:39:35.010
Mark Pracht: get bogged down.

561
00:39:35.530 --> 00:39:44.359
Mark Pracht: You know it. It's breezy, and I I agree that there's probably a little too much dialogue for the breeziness of the story.

562
00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:45.725
Mark Pracht: and

563
00:39:47.000 --> 00:40:02.829
Mark Pracht: speaking about Cliff's New York adventure, where we get into the whole thing with the freak show attractions and the the circus, the Kearney thing. And I thought when I was rereading that I was like, Wow, this, this feels a little muddled

564
00:40:03.810 --> 00:40:07.039
Mark Pracht: like it feels like there's almost too much going on.

565
00:40:07.340 --> 00:40:08.220
Mark Pracht: and

566
00:40:08.630 --> 00:40:14.139
Mark Pracht: somebody wants to kill somebody else, and and Lothar wants to kill the the.

567
00:40:14.140 --> 00:40:14.730
Tad Eggleston: Everybody.

568
00:40:14.730 --> 00:40:17.459
Mark Pracht: Everybody, and yet

569
00:40:19.685 --> 00:40:23.039
Mark Pracht: and I felt like that was almost a little too much.

570
00:40:23.430 --> 00:40:24.180
Mark Pracht: and it was.

571
00:40:24.180 --> 00:40:26.789
Tad Eggleston: I know, but there's some really pretty pages there.

572
00:40:26.790 --> 00:40:28.689
Mark Pracht: Oh, incredibly pretty page!

573
00:40:28.690 --> 00:40:34.509
Tad Eggleston: And some of them he did much better at at like, not being overly wordy with.

574
00:40:34.790 --> 00:40:35.720
Mark Pracht: Well.

575
00:40:36.580 --> 00:40:40.080
Mark Pracht: you know, we're also talking about where

576
00:40:41.281 --> 00:40:46.200
Mark Pracht: the New York adventure, that's where he was bringing in people to help him

577
00:40:46.567 --> 00:40:49.949
Mark Pracht: like. There are pages that Mike Kaluta actually did the layout.

578
00:40:50.630 --> 00:40:52.529
Mark Pracht: and apparently

579
00:40:53.640 --> 00:40:56.300
Mark Pracht: Dave Stevens was a very.

580
00:40:58.270 --> 00:41:02.530
Mark Pracht: His pencils were very sketchy, and he did most of his drawing in ink.

581
00:41:03.060 --> 00:41:03.780
Tad Eggleston: Right.

582
00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:13.277
Mark Pracht: And it's, you know, with the the artist edition, you can see that you can see, you know, white out on the pages making corrections and things like that.

583
00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:15.870
Mark Pracht: and

584
00:41:17.135 --> 00:41:18.110
Mark Pracht: So

585
00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:21.399
Mark Pracht: you know, I think that

586
00:41:21.410 --> 00:41:28.269
Mark Pracht: a lot of those stories in that section of the book you can probably take them as kind of jam jam pages.

587
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:29.500
Tad Eggleston: Right.

588
00:41:30.750 --> 00:41:33.869
Mark Pracht: that's not taking anything away from Dave Stevens, because I I'm a hundred.

589
00:41:33.870 --> 00:41:37.970
Tad Eggleston: I mean honestly, that makes me like wish that he kept jamming.

590
00:41:39.650 --> 00:41:40.120
Mark Pracht: I mean, like.

591
00:41:40.120 --> 00:41:40.870
Tad Eggleston: You know.

592
00:41:41.430 --> 00:41:49.979
Mark Pracht: When in 72, when he went to San Diego for the 1st time, he showed his stuff to

593
00:41:50.540 --> 00:41:51.790
Mark Pracht: Neil Adams

594
00:41:53.100 --> 00:41:58.330
Mark Pracht: famously, not one to mince words about people's talent.

595
00:41:58.820 --> 00:42:00.180
Tad Eggleston: Neil. Really.

596
00:42:00.290 --> 00:42:03.170
Tad Eggleston: I thought he always I'm kidding.

597
00:42:04.170 --> 00:42:05.789
Mark Pracht: As as somebody said.

598
00:42:06.230 --> 00:42:12.249
Mark Pracht: If Neil thought that you needed to get out of the business, he would tell you, because he thought that was kinder than

599
00:42:12.610 --> 00:42:16.949
Mark Pracht: right, letting you continue to think, but I mean he looked at Dave's

600
00:42:17.150 --> 00:42:20.289
Mark Pracht: art, and he said you could ink for marvel.

601
00:42:23.170 --> 00:42:24.970
Mark Pracht: so I mean, I think

602
00:42:26.220 --> 00:42:28.960
Mark Pracht: Dave's talents lied in his inking.

603
00:42:29.240 --> 00:42:32.694
Mark Pracht: I think that that was where it was really genius.

604
00:42:33.310 --> 00:42:38.640
Mark Pracht: I mean. And he says he says in that documentary. He's like, Oh, yeah, and if if

605
00:42:40.730 --> 00:42:47.909
Mark Pracht: he got some work that he was like, I don't like that, he would just erase the pencils and re redraw it.

606
00:42:47.990 --> 00:42:49.749
Mark Pracht: you know. So

607
00:42:51.340 --> 00:42:52.860
Mark Pracht: I you know.

608
00:42:53.700 --> 00:42:57.880
Mark Pracht: I mean, and that's when he's working for, like Russ Manning and all of these people, you know.

609
00:42:59.490 --> 00:43:02.215
Mark Pracht: So I don't know, I think,

610
00:43:02.790 --> 00:43:04.280
Mark Pracht: in any case.

611
00:43:04.710 --> 00:43:08.800
Mark Pracht: I could go on and on about the artwork, I mean, but I just think that it is

612
00:43:08.810 --> 00:43:13.500
Mark Pracht: like I think so many people. I think at this point so many people have seen that movie.

613
00:43:14.060 --> 00:43:17.849
Mark Pracht: And I was actually literally shocked that you hadn't read this book.

614
00:43:18.630 --> 00:43:21.540
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, you know, it's it's it's a

615
00:43:25.380 --> 00:43:28.050
Tad Eggleston: one of the the

616
00:43:30.060 --> 00:43:35.049
Tad Eggleston: the, the side effects of the fact that I was like on and off of comics

617
00:43:35.260 --> 00:43:41.389
Tad Eggleston: from the age of 4 until the age of like 30, and it's like

618
00:43:42.270 --> 00:43:48.580
Tad Eggleston: it was in my thirties that I like, went hardcore. Oh, my God, this is the greatest medium.

619
00:43:51.640 --> 00:43:56.500
Tad Eggleston: You know the period where I I mean I I loved comics

620
00:43:57.470 --> 00:44:00.590
Tad Eggleston: continuously, starting in my teens.

621
00:44:02.370 --> 00:44:05.600
Tad Eggleston: But but like for a lot of my teens.

622
00:44:05.670 --> 00:44:10.010
Tad Eggleston: you know. It was like I still had that that.

623
00:44:11.420 --> 00:44:23.929
Tad Eggleston: like a secondary medium, I still I still would say the words that that make me cringe. Now, what would a movie of this look like? It's like, fuck you. I don't want a movie anymore. The comic is is the thing?

624
00:44:24.420 --> 00:44:25.029
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

625
00:44:26.980 --> 00:44:33.399
Tad Eggleston: And then, when my son was born, I just, you know, money meant that I didn't buy nearly as many.

626
00:44:33.520 --> 00:44:34.610
Tad Eggleston: Oh.

627
00:44:34.890 --> 00:44:36.820
Tad Eggleston: so when

628
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:40.809
Tad Eggleston: I was younger. I I

629
00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:49.910
Tad Eggleston: just you know. It was much more on top of what was current.

630
00:44:50.340 --> 00:44:54.589
Tad Eggleston: and in that in that sense I was too old for Dave Stevens.

631
00:44:54.810 --> 00:44:55.455
Tad Eggleston: Sure

632
00:44:56.690 --> 00:44:59.810
Tad Eggleston: are too young for Dave Stevens, I I guess.

633
00:44:59.970 --> 00:45:01.520
Tad Eggleston: rather, and.

634
00:45:01.520 --> 00:45:04.420
Mark Pracht: It's out of it was out of print for a long time.

635
00:45:04.420 --> 00:45:05.190
Tad Eggleston: Right

636
00:45:07.260 --> 00:45:14.600
Tad Eggleston: And then, to a certain extent, I've been playing catch up ever since, as I'm also discovering

637
00:45:15.140 --> 00:45:25.490
Tad Eggleston: Manga and Bandai Disney and and underground scenes, and like the whole spectrum of what comics are.

638
00:45:26.650 --> 00:45:32.370
Tad Eggleston: so I still have holes. I haven't read as much, Kirby as I'd like. I need to actually read commandee.

639
00:45:32.999 --> 00:45:39.639
Tad Eggleston: I don't know if I'm going to subject myself to new gods, or if I'm going to try. What I really want to do is, I want to try

640
00:45:39.650 --> 00:45:43.549
Tad Eggleston: hard to read new gods the way I try hard

641
00:45:43.640 --> 00:45:47.680
Tad Eggleston: to read the old Ec. Stuff which is

642
00:45:47.930 --> 00:45:49.940
Tad Eggleston: dialogue. Only

643
00:45:52.340 --> 00:45:55.380
Tad Eggleston: ignore any exposition boxes.

644
00:45:57.780 --> 00:45:59.999
Tad Eggleston: Let the art tell the story.

645
00:46:00.530 --> 00:46:07.449
Tad Eggleston: But I'm such a word person that I I like really have to to focus, to read like that.

646
00:46:08.640 --> 00:46:10.920
Mark Pracht: Well, you know the Ec. Thing

647
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:13.040
Mark Pracht: famously.

648
00:46:13.070 --> 00:46:16.739
Mark Pracht: I mean I I'm sure you know this, but you know.

649
00:46:16.740 --> 00:46:19.159
Tad Eggleston: Writing the story in the boxes.

650
00:46:19.610 --> 00:46:29.340
Mark Pracht: Well, yeah, that that Al Feldstein would give the artists a page that was already laid out in panels with the balloons in it, so they would have to draw.

651
00:46:30.040 --> 00:46:32.879
Mark Pracht: they would know exactly how much space they had.

652
00:46:33.180 --> 00:46:35.370
Mark Pracht: which is.

653
00:46:36.830 --> 00:46:39.109
Tad Eggleston: And that was where the art direction was.

654
00:46:39.310 --> 00:46:40.360
Mark Pracht: Yeah, yeah.

655
00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:43.859
Tad Eggleston: Because they weren't wasting money on like typewriter paper.

656
00:46:44.030 --> 00:46:44.820
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

657
00:46:45.610 --> 00:46:46.339
Mark Pracht: Well, you know just.

658
00:46:46.340 --> 00:46:56.940
Tad Eggleston: That it's like, okay, this all makes sense. But this also makes me not feel bad about not reading exposition boxes, because they were really only there for the artist, anyway.

659
00:46:56.940 --> 00:47:01.919
Mark Pracht: Well, and then you know, the one thing about the exposition boxes in those books.

660
00:47:01.980 --> 00:47:07.740
Mark Pracht: That's the fun part is that that's where you hit the voice of the the hosts.

661
00:47:08.150 --> 00:47:08.760
Tad Eggleston: Right.

662
00:47:09.140 --> 00:47:16.350
Mark Pracht: So I mean, that's also where you get some of the really good bad jokes. And the you know the the

663
00:47:16.620 --> 00:47:20.989
Mark Pracht: Ec comic style, you know. It's sort of like it's sort of like that. 10.

664
00:47:20.990 --> 00:47:25.980
Tad Eggleston: It needed to be more in between stories than in the stories.

665
00:47:28.040 --> 00:47:28.570
Tad Eggleston: No.

666
00:47:28.570 --> 00:47:28.900
Mark Pracht: Dude.

667
00:47:28.900 --> 00:47:35.110
Tad Eggleston: Always. Yeah. But but but you know, I mean, that's 1 of the things I appreciate about Ec is like.

668
00:47:36.310 --> 00:47:39.057
Tad Eggleston: and I appreciate a lot about. Ec,

669
00:47:39.740 --> 00:47:42.579
Tad Eggleston: is the way they let the stories

670
00:47:45.190 --> 00:47:48.659
Tad Eggleston: be stories, even when they're part of this this theater.

671
00:47:48.760 --> 00:47:53.799
Tad Eggleston: You know, it's it's it's more like. Here's the host introducing the story, and and

672
00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:56.070
Tad Eggleston: let's get out of the way now.

673
00:47:56.170 --> 00:47:57.220
Tad Eggleston: right.

674
00:47:58.600 --> 00:48:01.860
Mark Pracht: But, you know, like not to

675
00:48:02.380 --> 00:48:05.670
Mark Pracht: get totally authorized. This is what I would say

676
00:48:06.150 --> 00:48:07.419
Mark Pracht: about new gods

677
00:48:07.450 --> 00:48:09.290
Mark Pracht: and a 4th world in general.

678
00:48:09.910 --> 00:48:12.040
Mark Pracht: I think the best way to read it

679
00:48:12.780 --> 00:48:17.059
Mark Pracht: is to do it in chronological order, like, get all the books.

680
00:48:17.250 --> 00:48:25.239
Mark Pracht: all the Jimmy Olsen books, all the forever. People, all of the the Mr. Miracle get the new gods and lay them out

681
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:28.070
Mark Pracht: and read one a month

682
00:48:28.220 --> 00:48:29.349
Mark Pracht: of each one

683
00:48:30.980 --> 00:48:32.400
Mark Pracht: for the 11 months.

684
00:48:34.180 --> 00:48:35.170
Mark Pracht: because

685
00:48:35.290 --> 00:48:37.489
Mark Pracht: trying to process.

686
00:48:37.570 --> 00:48:39.520
Mark Pracht: It's my famous story.

687
00:48:39.520 --> 00:48:44.620
Tad Eggleston: Well, you can't. It can't be one a month for 11 months. There's more than 11 issues.

688
00:48:44.990 --> 00:48:49.979
Mark Pracht: There's a let. Well, Mr. Miracle went to 25.

689
00:48:49.980 --> 00:48:52.060
Tad Eggleston: Or one of each book.

690
00:48:52.690 --> 00:48:54.320
Mark Pracht: One of each book. That's what I'm saying.

691
00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:54.670
Tad Eggleston: I.

692
00:48:54.670 --> 00:48:55.160
Mark Pracht: So like.

693
00:48:55.160 --> 00:48:57.569
Tad Eggleston: Thought you meant. I thought you meant one

694
00:48:57.820 --> 00:48:58.540
Tad Eggleston: book.

695
00:48:59.260 --> 00:49:08.327
Mark Pracht: Yeah, no, no. Yeah. So like to take it as you would read it in 1971, or whatever it was.

696
00:49:09.470 --> 00:49:19.390
Mark Pracht: because, you know, famously. I was talking to the cast, and I said, You know, the last time I tried to reread the whole 4th World

697
00:49:19.520 --> 00:49:22.719
Mark Pracht: was on an overnight flight from Chicago to London.

698
00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:25.849
Mark Pracht: reading in chronological order.

699
00:49:27.020 --> 00:49:28.280
Mark Pracht: book by book

700
00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:30.510
Mark Pracht: over. And it. It

701
00:49:30.610 --> 00:49:33.310
Mark Pracht: made me feel like I was going insane

702
00:49:34.210 --> 00:49:36.689
Mark Pracht: because the

703
00:49:38.540 --> 00:49:41.920
Mark Pracht: there's so many ideas that are piling up.

704
00:49:42.070 --> 00:49:43.260
Mark Pracht: And

705
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:51.699
Mark Pracht: again, sorry, Kirby, it's the the the scripting is so

706
00:49:54.290 --> 00:49:55.459
Mark Pracht: hit or miss

707
00:49:56.223 --> 00:50:01.459
Mark Pracht: that it becomes very hard to process what you're reading

708
00:50:01.610 --> 00:50:02.950
Mark Pracht: and what I would

709
00:50:05.370 --> 00:50:12.460
Mark Pracht: when I reread it again, which will happen sooner or later. What I'm gonna do is exactly what I described. I'm gonna.

710
00:50:12.460 --> 00:50:13.070
Tad Eggleston: We have my.

711
00:50:13.070 --> 00:50:15.140
Mark Pracht: Collections, and I will.

712
00:50:15.140 --> 00:50:23.340
Tad Eggleston: Ask you right now, because, as you were describing that I'm like, what a cool book club! When you decide to reread it.

713
00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:30.880
Tad Eggleston: do it with me. I'll read it with you. I'll do it for the 1st time. You'll do it for the for the the however, many times, and and.

714
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:31.319
Mark Pracht: We're good to.

715
00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:34.289
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, they'll record monthly, and we'll we'll we'll we'll.

716
00:50:35.410 --> 00:50:35.740
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

717
00:50:35.740 --> 00:50:36.500
Tad Eggleston: We'll talk about. Well.

718
00:50:36.500 --> 00:50:37.459
Mark Pracht: And then I think.

719
00:50:37.460 --> 00:50:38.510
Tad Eggleston: Be fantastic!

720
00:50:38.750 --> 00:50:41.985
Mark Pracht: After, you know, cause, you know, famously

721
00:50:42.940 --> 00:50:48.660
Mark Pracht: I think forever. People only did 7 issues, and then new gods

722
00:50:48.890 --> 00:51:01.303
Mark Pracht: did 11. And then he left Jimmy Olsen at a certain point, and then Mr. Miracle went on to like, I said, I think 25 issues so like at a certain point, there's a lot less to read.

723
00:51:02.020 --> 00:51:05.690
Mark Pracht: But then you can see how he's trying to wrap

724
00:51:05.830 --> 00:51:07.020
Mark Pracht: stuff up

725
00:51:07.120 --> 00:51:13.439
Mark Pracht: right and and then, of course you can finish with hunger dogs, which was the, you know.

726
00:51:13.980 --> 00:51:18.500
Mark Pracht: the when they brought him back in the eighties to try to finish the story.

727
00:51:18.820 --> 00:51:19.540
Tad Eggleston: Okay.

728
00:51:21.230 --> 00:51:27.040
Mark Pracht: And that book. That book is almost what you're wishing for here, like. It is almost all art

729
00:51:27.220 --> 00:51:35.524
Mark Pracht: like. There is very little dialogue in that, and I don't but yeah, actually, that is that is a

730
00:51:36.730 --> 00:51:40.820
Mark Pracht: there's a great idea. And I would I would love to do that.

731
00:51:41.370 --> 00:51:46.210
Tad Eggleston: Well, we're gonna have to like when you're ready to read Kirby again.

732
00:51:46.520 --> 00:51:47.759
Mark Pracht: Yeah, give me a.

733
00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:51.329
Tad Eggleston: You to step away from Kirby for a while.

734
00:51:52.730 --> 00:51:53.919
Mark Pracht: you know, and

735
00:51:54.560 --> 00:51:56.990
Mark Pracht: I don't know I could. You know I might.

736
00:51:58.250 --> 00:52:01.319
Mark Pracht: I might have some names of people who might join us in that little escapade.

737
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:02.869
Tad Eggleston: I'm all for that.

738
00:52:03.310 --> 00:52:04.220
Tad Eggleston: I'll have to think.

739
00:52:04.220 --> 00:52:04.660
Mark Pracht: Goodbye!

740
00:52:04.660 --> 00:52:06.220
Tad Eggleston: Because I think that would be fun.

741
00:52:06.420 --> 00:52:13.270
Mark Pracht: I mean, and I I think I think that it would be a lot of fun, too. But yeah, I just I see I see a lot of.

742
00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:21.000
Mark Pracht: I see a lot of Kirby strengths in Dave Stevens, and I also see a lot of Kirby's weaknesses in Dave Stevens. I think

743
00:52:22.337 --> 00:52:24.422
Mark Pracht: to bring it back to Rocketeer.

744
00:52:24.770 --> 00:52:25.410
Tad Eggleston: Right.

745
00:52:26.080 --> 00:52:34.549
Mark Pracht: But I think that it's the. It's the very simplicity of the story that he's telling that makes that almost

746
00:52:34.680 --> 00:52:36.020
Mark Pracht: a non-issue.

747
00:52:36.170 --> 00:52:41.640
Mark Pracht: I mean, you can say he's a little wordy in his dialogue, and I won't. I won't argue that.

748
00:52:41.940 --> 00:52:43.380
Mark Pracht: But.

749
00:52:44.140 --> 00:52:58.349
Tad Eggleston: I think one of the bigger problems is wordy and thought balloons. And I love thought balloons. I love that there were, thought Bubbles here. I loved it, loved it, loved it. I'm not complaining that there were, thought Bubbles, but some of them were really really

750
00:52:59.350 --> 00:53:01.819
Tad Eggleston: long, thought Bubbles.

751
00:53:02.480 --> 00:53:03.430
Mark Pracht: Well, I mean.

752
00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:08.420
Mark Pracht: if if you could see my thought Bubbles, you would say.

753
00:53:08.420 --> 00:53:08.830
Tad Eggleston: That's true.

754
00:53:08.830 --> 00:53:10.909
Mark Pracht: Pages and pages.

755
00:53:10.910 --> 00:53:13.189
Tad Eggleston: I know my thought bubbles, too, that.

756
00:53:13.190 --> 00:53:13.580
Mark Pracht: Daddy.

757
00:53:13.580 --> 00:53:14.800
Tad Eggleston: Is a challenge.

758
00:53:15.050 --> 00:53:23.359
Mark Pracht: I am with you. I think that, like modern comics, have gotten so anti thought balloons.

759
00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:24.050
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.

760
00:53:24.460 --> 00:53:26.669
Mark Pracht: I, and I think that that is a

761
00:53:26.760 --> 00:53:30.950
Mark Pracht: that is an integral part of how this medium.

762
00:53:31.230 --> 00:53:33.580
Tad Eggleston: One of my

763
00:53:34.070 --> 00:53:37.230
Tad Eggleston: like dream things to have at some point

764
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:40.979
Tad Eggleston: since I discovered that some people think in

765
00:53:41.490 --> 00:53:53.699
Tad Eggleston: words, and some people think in pictures is to at some point have a comic where some people are having their thought balloons in words, and some people are having their thought bubbles in pictures.

766
00:53:54.920 --> 00:54:01.339
Mark Pracht: I remember there was some book. I can't remember what it was where every thought balloon was a image.

767
00:54:02.260 --> 00:54:05.709
Mark Pracht: and I think that's really interesting. I can't remember what it is, but.

768
00:54:05.710 --> 00:54:09.610
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I know that sword, daughter.

769
00:54:11.140 --> 00:54:19.810
Tad Eggleston: The the girl that had been essentially feral for a while spoke in pictures. I think it was the way of

770
00:54:20.130 --> 00:54:22.140
Tad Eggleston: indicating that, like

771
00:54:23.110 --> 00:54:28.109
Tad Eggleston: her, language, was not there, but she was able to communicate certain things.

772
00:54:28.270 --> 00:54:28.800
Mark Pracht: Yeah.

773
00:54:31.080 --> 00:54:31.870
Tad Eggleston: yeah, there's.

774
00:54:31.870 --> 00:54:32.220
Mark Pracht: I mean.

775
00:54:32.220 --> 00:54:34.559
Tad Eggleston: People who've played around with it.

776
00:54:34.850 --> 00:54:37.700
Tad Eggleston: but I think it would be fun to do in like

777
00:54:38.110 --> 00:54:38.780
Tad Eggleston: not even.

778
00:54:39.170 --> 00:54:40.210
Tad Eggleston: but it's ensured

779
00:54:40.270 --> 00:54:44.239
Tad Eggleston: or genre story, but like a a literary type, comic.

780
00:54:44.240 --> 00:54:50.879
Mark Pracht: Oh, yeah, no, I I'm I'm kind of a literalist when it comes to word balloons, because I'm like, Okay, this is what

781
00:54:51.650 --> 00:54:53.170
Mark Pracht: people are hearing.

782
00:54:53.430 --> 00:54:56.949
Mark Pracht: But I think that thought balloons are.

783
00:54:57.470 --> 00:55:05.039
Mark Pracht: There's so many ways you can do it. I mean, I tend to be. I like. If I was gonna write a thought balloon. For myself.

784
00:55:05.390 --> 00:55:07.269
Mark Pracht: I would pray it would probably be

785
00:55:07.370 --> 00:55:11.570
Mark Pracht: written as dialogue, because oftentimes, when I'm thinking

786
00:55:11.640 --> 00:55:13.539
Mark Pracht: it would almost be a script.

787
00:55:13.540 --> 00:55:14.109
Tad Eggleston: Me too.

788
00:55:14.110 --> 00:55:18.410
Mark Pracht: Like, I think about what this person would say and what I'm gonna say and what you know right? And I.

789
00:55:18.410 --> 00:55:18.750
Tad Eggleston: Right.

790
00:55:18.750 --> 00:55:21.569
Mark Pracht: I think that's that's fascinating, whereas I.

791
00:55:21.570 --> 00:55:24.419
Tad Eggleston: I think some people would have like word clouds.

792
00:55:25.080 --> 00:55:25.720
Mark Pracht: Yes.

793
00:55:25.720 --> 00:55:34.261
Tad Eggleston: You know my wife talks about how she doesn't even really think in pictures. She thinks in colors that will sometimes swirl their way into pictures.

794
00:55:35.610 --> 00:55:42.560
Mark Pracht: But I mean, like I, you know, we can like. This is a whole whole conversation. But I mean, I think about like

795
00:55:43.690 --> 00:55:51.950
Mark Pracht: early spider-man. Like all of the Stan Lee spider-man books, whether it's with Ditko or with Romita.

796
00:55:51.950 --> 00:55:52.750
Tad Eggleston: For me to.

797
00:55:53.300 --> 00:55:53.950
Mark Pracht: Like

798
00:55:54.450 --> 00:56:00.089
Mark Pracht: Spider-man Peter Parker is defined by how he thinks.

799
00:56:00.380 --> 00:56:01.510
Tad Eggleston: Absolutely.

800
00:56:01.510 --> 00:56:19.349
Mark Pracht: Like that is what makes that character is what he's thinking I mean like, and that, you know, when he talks and it's it. It's part of the the depth of that character that when spider-man's in combat and doing his trash talk and stuff that we also see

801
00:56:19.350 --> 00:56:33.129
Mark Pracht: that worried kid that's inside, and I think that that is, I mean, and I know I know you and I have had this this argument about Stan Lee and his talent, and whether he's a good writer or not. But I mean, like that stuff that.

802
00:56:33.130 --> 00:56:35.160
Tad Eggleston: See. See

803
00:56:36.320 --> 00:56:37.900
Tad Eggleston: you.

804
00:56:38.670 --> 00:56:40.890
Tad Eggleston: spider-man is the counter example.

805
00:56:41.610 --> 00:56:43.610
Tad Eggleston: Spider-man is the counter example.

806
00:56:44.094 --> 00:56:51.140
Tad Eggleston: He? He writes Spider-man wonderfully. I'm not. Gonna I mean, I still think Bendis wrote it better.

807
00:56:53.250 --> 00:56:55.570
Mark Pracht: But Bendis won't. Bendis won't use.

808
00:56:55.740 --> 00:56:59.059
Mark Pracht: Vendors won't use stop balloons, you know, like.

809
00:56:59.060 --> 00:57:02.639
Tad Eggleston: I forget if he didn't use. Well, they didn't.

810
00:57:02.640 --> 00:57:05.900
Mark Pracht: This is not balloons, but I.

811
00:57:05.900 --> 00:57:06.670
Tad Eggleston: Sure, man.

812
00:57:07.620 --> 00:57:09.150
Mark Pracht: I don't think there's any.

813
00:57:09.570 --> 00:57:10.080
Tad Eggleston: I know.

814
00:57:10.080 --> 00:57:11.199
Mark Pracht: I, and I love.

815
00:57:11.200 --> 00:57:13.349
Tad Eggleston: But they use thought boxes.

816
00:57:13.830 --> 00:57:34.421
Mark Pracht: They use thought boxes. But that's a different thing, I mean, and I am a huge Bendis fan, huge and and when I 1st started reading Bendis and reading about Bendis and Bendis talked about how much he loves David Mamet, who, if you're a theater person, we're not supposed to talk about David Mammet anymore. But

817
00:57:34.770 --> 00:57:35.209
Tad Eggleston: I didn't know.

818
00:57:35.210 --> 00:57:35.640
Mark Pracht: With that.

819
00:57:35.640 --> 00:57:37.650
Tad Eggleston: Supposed to talk about David Mammon anymore.

820
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:38.780
Mark Pracht: Screw that.

821
00:57:38.780 --> 00:57:39.680
Tad Eggleston: You know.

822
00:57:40.020 --> 00:57:53.570
Mark Pracht: David Mamet is like early David Mamet is nothing better dialogue wise and like, and I see that in Bendis. But I mean, I think that it also is why Bendis won't

823
00:57:53.600 --> 00:58:02.150
Mark Pracht: won't use thought balloons, or does it very, very rarely right. It's 1 of those things I would love to talk to Bendis about. Yeah.

824
00:58:02.150 --> 00:58:04.369
Tad Eggleston: Well, if if I ever get Bendis.

825
00:58:04.370 --> 00:58:09.099
Mark Pracht: I we've had these discussions, I mean, like, look I saw

826
00:58:09.970 --> 00:58:15.499
Mark Pracht: this whole Kirby Stan Lee conversation. I'll pitch this out

827
00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:20.113
Mark Pracht: to everybody, because we're getting to where I'm gonna have to log out. But

828
00:58:21.228 --> 00:58:28.900
Mark Pracht: the new deluxe edition of origins of marvel comics with the additional material.

829
00:58:29.370 --> 00:58:39.069
Mark Pracht: They have 2 versions. There's a hardcover that's the deluxe edition that has extra essays, and an interview with like Larry Lieber and

830
00:58:39.290 --> 00:58:42.050
Mark Pracht: Alex Ross and and

831
00:58:42.800 --> 00:58:59.420
Mark Pracht: Ray Bradbury's Original Review from the La Times, like that book, is magnificent. The. You can also get just a reprinting of the book as it as it originally was released. And that's great, too.

832
00:59:01.470 --> 00:59:07.480
Mark Pracht: but that that deluxe edition with the work that Chris Ryle did

833
00:59:08.500 --> 00:59:09.370
Mark Pracht: is

834
00:59:10.190 --> 00:59:19.119
Mark Pracht: choice. It is an amazing. P. It is amazing piece of comic book history that is well worth reading. If you're interested in the history of Marvel and the history of comics.

835
00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:21.460
Mark Pracht: That's my pitch this week.

836
00:59:24.930 --> 00:59:28.770
Tad Eggleston: Well, anything else we want to say about the rocketeer.

837
00:59:31.410 --> 00:59:35.009
Mark Pracht: just that. I think that this is really

838
00:59:36.100 --> 00:59:38.970
Mark Pracht: When we think back to the 1980 s.

839
00:59:39.398 --> 00:59:49.511
Mark Pracht: You know. And there's a lot of seminal comic book stuff from the 19 eighties. You've got things like watchmen. You've got things like dark Knight returns. You've got

840
00:59:50.750 --> 00:59:51.723
Mark Pracht: the the

841
00:59:54.470 --> 00:59:55.175
Mark Pracht: got

842
00:59:56.440 --> 00:59:59.940
Mark Pracht: Paul Levitt's run on

843
01:00:00.450 --> 01:00:04.850
Mark Pracht: superheroes. You've got the great darkness war. That's what I was trying to come up.

844
01:00:04.850 --> 01:00:05.230
Tad Eggleston: Right.

845
01:00:06.620 --> 01:00:07.740
Mark Pracht: You've got

846
01:00:09.900 --> 01:00:11.030
Mark Pracht: that.

847
01:00:11.270 --> 01:00:12.390
Tad Eggleston: Swamp, thing.

848
01:00:12.390 --> 01:00:14.070
Mark Pracht: Swamp thing. All that

849
01:00:14.770 --> 01:00:17.289
Mark Pracht: rocketeer, in my humble opinion.

850
01:00:17.290 --> 01:00:17.710
Tad Eggleston: Been rocked.

851
01:00:17.710 --> 01:00:32.740
Mark Pracht: To be right up there loving rockets all you know this explosion in, you know. We had all the con. We had the comic book stores and the direct market, and it allowed things to to change. And this book

852
01:00:32.790 --> 01:00:35.240
Mark Pracht: is a throwback.

853
01:00:35.510 --> 01:00:36.799
Mark Pracht: without a doubt.

854
01:00:36.820 --> 01:00:46.479
Mark Pracht: But it is such. It is such a personal statement by David Steven, by Dave Stevens about what he loved, and anybody

855
01:00:46.550 --> 01:00:47.610
Mark Pracht: who

856
01:00:48.290 --> 01:00:51.279
Mark Pracht: has a love of comic book artwork.

857
01:00:52.190 --> 01:00:54.550
Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah, it's totally totally

858
01:00:54.780 --> 01:01:10.829
Tad Eggleston: I mean, anybody who likes pulps everything. This is like, I'm the opposite. We switched roles this month. Normally, you're the one who's picking apart the thing and stopping and saying, but I really liked it. You should read it. Yeah.

859
01:01:11.160 --> 01:01:12.160
Tad Eggleston: I think.

860
01:01:12.160 --> 01:01:12.649
Mark Pracht: Well, like.

861
01:01:12.650 --> 01:01:15.220
Tad Eggleston: I've played that role today. You should have.

862
01:01:15.220 --> 01:01:29.210
Mark Pracht: Well, the last couple of times we've done the last couple of times we've done one of these things. It's like I. I have been so busy that I couldn't come up with something to read. So it's been stuff that you brought in, and this is time. So I brought something in and.

863
01:01:29.210 --> 01:01:29.550
Tad Eggleston: Right.

864
01:01:29.550 --> 01:01:39.469
Mark Pracht: You know, I'm now, hopefully, I'm starting a new show in a few weeks, so things could get a little dicey. But you know, hopefully, I'm gonna come up with more things.

865
01:01:40.570 --> 01:01:50.499
Mark Pracht: So but I mean, I was just like I was thinking about it as pulp stuff. And like this, this is like quintessential pulp. This is, I mean, for God's sake, for God's sake!

866
01:01:54.100 --> 01:02:00.840
Mark Pracht: We have guest appearances by the 2 greatest pulp fiction heroes of all time.

867
01:02:00.950 --> 01:02:05.030
Mark Pracht: even though legally, we can't say who they are.

868
01:02:05.350 --> 01:02:09.300
Tad Eggleston: Though one of them did say that he works from the shadow.

869
01:02:09.300 --> 01:02:10.250
Mark Pracht: Shadows. Yeah.

870
01:02:11.290 --> 01:02:11.610
Mark Pracht: but.

871
01:02:11.610 --> 01:02:12.030
Tad Eggleston: That's.

872
01:02:12.030 --> 01:02:15.899
Mark Pracht: I remember when I was, you know, like I had not

873
01:02:16.110 --> 01:02:25.922
Mark Pracht: when I 1st read this I didn't know. It's Doc Savage in the shadow. Right. The inventor of the rocket pack is Doc Savage and

874
01:02:27.730 --> 01:02:32.239
Mark Pracht: When I 1st read this I had no idea who Doc Savage was, and I was like who the.

875
01:02:32.240 --> 01:02:34.880
Tad Eggleston: I don't know, Doc Savage, that. Well, now I know that

876
01:02:35.230 --> 01:02:37.200
Tad Eggleston: he's a thing that I should get to know. But.

877
01:02:37.200 --> 01:02:37.560
Mark Pracht: Wow!

878
01:02:37.560 --> 01:02:38.380
Tad Eggleston: Still don't.

879
01:02:38.710 --> 01:02:44.730
Mark Pracht: Yeah, like, totally the Doc. Savage books are so much fun to read. I'm not in the shadow. Books are so much fun to read. They're.

880
01:02:44.730 --> 01:02:48.359
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, Shadow, I know relatively well, if only from his comics.

881
01:02:48.370 --> 01:02:49.989
Tad Eggleston: I've read a couple of the books, but.

882
01:02:49.990 --> 01:03:04.966
Mark Pracht: I mean, like going back to the you know, to the main vein. Shall we say of those is really fun to do? If you have the time I mean, like it takes a lot longer to read a

883
01:03:05.780 --> 01:03:08.649
Mark Pracht: pulp story than say like a comic.

884
01:03:08.800 --> 01:03:15.475
Mark Pracht: But and you know I would always I would always caution people. They are

885
01:03:15.930 --> 01:03:17.550
Mark Pracht: product, that's their time.

886
01:03:17.620 --> 01:03:27.029
Mark Pracht: And that's not only in subject matter and attitudes about certain things, but also just in the way the story is presented, and.

887
01:03:27.030 --> 01:03:27.400
Tad Eggleston: Right.

888
01:03:27.400 --> 01:03:32.930
Mark Pracht: You're dealing with writers who are getting paid a penny per word. So

889
01:03:33.110 --> 01:03:39.909
Mark Pracht: anytime it's sort of like when you read the Robert A. Robert E. Howard Conan books which are also fantastic. Right?

890
01:03:40.100 --> 01:03:42.700
Mark Pracht: You always have to know that

891
01:03:42.720 --> 01:03:45.920
Mark Pracht: if he could write 10 words where 3 would do.

892
01:03:46.450 --> 01:03:47.720
Mark Pracht: he's gonna do it.

893
01:03:47.980 --> 01:03:49.270
Mark Pracht: because then you get

894
01:03:50.210 --> 01:03:52.680
Mark Pracht: 10 cents instead of 3 cents. You know.

895
01:03:52.680 --> 01:03:53.380
Tad Eggleston: Right.

896
01:03:53.670 --> 01:03:54.505
Mark Pracht: So.

897
01:03:57.030 --> 01:04:00.410
Mark Pracht: that's that's sort of the nature of it. But you know

898
01:04:00.560 --> 01:04:01.390
Mark Pracht: it's

899
01:04:01.520 --> 01:04:03.779
Mark Pracht: I. Whenever I watch the movie.

900
01:04:03.790 --> 01:04:06.759
Mark Pracht: I always feel ripped off that they've changed it

901
01:04:06.770 --> 01:04:09.579
Mark Pracht: from Doc Savage to Howard Hughes.

902
01:04:10.340 --> 01:04:14.863
Mark Pracht: even though Pv. Thinks it's Howard Hughes which I think is really funny, too.

903
01:04:15.620 --> 01:04:21.812
Mark Pracht: but I mean now that I'm I know, Doc Savage. It's like when Monk and

904
01:04:22.850 --> 01:04:24.529
Mark Pracht: ham show up.

905
01:04:24.620 --> 01:04:27.199
Mark Pracht: which are 2 of Doc Savage's.

906
01:04:29.680 --> 01:04:31.010
Mark Pracht: associates

907
01:04:31.170 --> 01:04:40.020
Mark Pracht: supporting cast, and they they're never named, but it's clearly them, and they're in the book quite, quite a bit

908
01:04:40.710 --> 01:04:44.870
Mark Pracht: they're, in fact, the ones who walk in on Betty's photo session.

909
01:04:44.870 --> 01:04:45.480
Tad Eggleston: Photo shit.

910
01:04:45.480 --> 01:04:50.439
Mark Pracht: Is probably the most famous panel page

911
01:04:50.900 --> 01:04:52.910
Mark Pracht: of any rocketeer.

912
01:04:53.220 --> 01:04:54.030
Tad Eggleston: Right.

913
01:04:54.030 --> 01:04:55.143
Mark Pracht: Book ever

914
01:04:56.530 --> 01:05:01.739
Mark Pracht: and it's gorgeous, and it's very cheesecake. So be prepared for that.

915
01:05:01.760 --> 01:05:02.360
Mark Pracht: But

916
01:05:03.690 --> 01:05:05.580
Mark Pracht: but not salacious, I mean, that's the other thing.

917
01:05:05.580 --> 01:05:05.900
Tad Eggleston: Right.

918
01:05:05.900 --> 01:05:14.130
Mark Pracht: It's like it's like Dave Stevens. Artwork is highly sexualized, but I don't feel like it's exploitive or gross or

919
01:05:14.330 --> 01:05:14.845
Mark Pracht: right.

920
01:05:22.557 --> 01:05:23.810
Mark Pracht: you know, like.

921
01:05:23.810 --> 01:05:24.550
Tad Eggleston: Right.

922
01:05:24.910 --> 01:05:27.780
Mark Pracht: You know I don't sit there and go like you know.

923
01:05:28.650 --> 01:05:37.739
Tad Eggleston: Right. It's not cringe worthy. So we're we're gonna wrap this up because you gotta run, and we should talk at least a minute or 2 off the air. So for

924
01:05:37.770 --> 01:05:40.710
Tad Eggleston: 22 panelists with a pulp blotter

925
01:05:41.220 --> 01:05:44.974
Tad Eggleston: book club, where we've talked about the rocketeer today. And

926
01:05:45.370 --> 01:05:51.410
Tad Eggleston: I don't have anything to plug for Mark this week. So so we'll just say we'll see you after the next page.