Ethan Hoover & Matthew Maher are joined by a special guest, Dr. Karl Benzio, as they continue their discussion about the Psychology Gospel and how the Gospel impacts psychology.
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Ethan Hoover & Matthew Maher are joined by a special guest, Dr. Karl Benzio, as they continue their discussion about the Psychology Gospel and how the Gospel impacts psychology.
What’s Covered in This Episode:
Resources:
Got questions?
Learn More:
To learn more about the podcast and your hosts, visit our website.
Looking to sponsor Rechurched? Apply to be a sponsor!
Follow us on Instagram!
Learn More:
To learn more about the podcast and your hosts, visit our website.
Looking to sponsor Rechurched? Apply to be a sponsor!
You are listening to research, a podcast aimed at instigating Christians to be Christian. Hey, what's up everybody? My name is Ethan, and you're listening to the rich church podcast. I am your host. And I'm joined by my co host, Matthew Mayer. What's up, Matt, what is going on? Guys? I know last episode, we told you guys, we were going to move into the progressive gospel. But we have an addendum episode that we thought was fitting timely, very timely, for this subject to continue this thread on the psychology gospel. And so to kind of just break down the outline of what we talked about last episode, we talked about what the psychology gospel is, where it came from, how to identify it, how it's been distributed, and adopted. And we looked biblically at what the Bible has to say about a false gospel of this nature. And what we really saw was that self is denied in the true gospel self is crucified. But in the psychology gospel, self is esteemed. And that gets us sort of into what we're talking about today. And we're really going to approach today's episode from a professional perspective. But not just a professional perspective, but a Christian professional, which I don't know about you, Matt, but I think is extremely important when talking about self. As a believer talking about self self value self worth, I think it's really important to know how to operate within that as a believer from a Christian professional. So before we fully dive into this, I'm going to let Matt kind of give us a real quick, three minute summary of what we talked about last episode.
Unknown:Yeah, I'm excited for this. As far as last episode goes, guys take the opportunity to listen to that, that way, you're aware of what we're trying to accomplish in this episode. Of course, Ethan just gave us a very brief summary of what we talked about. What was fascinating is, the Bible is very clear that the soul or the psych has value. It there's an innate value that God has placed in humanity were created in his in his image. So I think it's timely that we have our guests with us today. And we'll introduce him in a second, because he's going to help equip us to understand how to have the proper Biblical balance as it relates to the soul or the psyche, or the mind, or the heart or the emotions of man. So we may have made it black and white. Last episode, Ethan, and there is probably some gray area, but we want to make sure the gray is supplemented with biblical truth. That's the point. So the psychology gospel can also be called the self esteem gospel. So it's the gospel of me, myself and I. So it's the journey of self that goes towards self again. So the line of delineation is from self to self, right? You're awesome. You pump yourself up, you're the captain of your own destiny. Remember, I said, you're always David, standing before Goliath with your stone? That's an awesome position. That position Yeah, that's the hero. He's the one victorious. But if you listen carefully to these messages, you're never David standing before Nathan in your sin. Right? So you're never told to repent. They don't talk about suffering. They don't talk about anything that would basically take away from being happy. That's the word happiness is happenstance. It's based on circumstance. So the reason we want to have a full understanding of the gospel of truth is because life doesn't always serve me up reasons to be happy. In fact, a lot of my circumstances, if I really just focus on them, and self is always looking at them, I'm going to be depressed, I'm going to be discouraged. I'm gonna be in despair. So how does the soul rise above that? Well, the gospel of truth, the pure gospel, helps us have true understanding of the psyche and of the mind. So to introduce our guests, I had the honor and the privilege to intersect with him probably about two years ago, BC, before COVID Oh, my gosh. And I told a message Ethan on where do you go with your burdens? I didn't know that. Our guest I'll give you his name, and I'm gonna give you his bio. Dr. Carl benzo was sitting in the sanctuary, no clue. And it just so happen to be on that day that I touched on neuroplasticity. And I basically categorize burdens because we all carry burdens. Where do you go with your burdens? So what type of burdens Well, there's guilt and their shame. I think that's a burden of sorts. There's anxiety and worry, that's a burden of sorts. And then there is despair and depression. That's a burden of sorts. Now, they're all interrelated when you really think about them, but I tease them out. And I gave a message about what the Bible says, Where do you go with your burdens? I had no clue that Dr. Carl was like, extremely interested because I dealt with the mind and the pathways in the mind and how we often can be discouraged or depressed because of habits and the way we respond to life outside of the Word of God. So I had the opportunity to actually participate in one of his ministries, that gave me the platform to share my testimony with individuals who were in desperate need of hope, and to understand the importance of casting our cares upon the Lord. So fast forward those few years and Dr. Carl Benzino, and his wife, Martine have transplanted from Florida to now Ocean City, New Jersey, so he's not only part of our church, Ethan, coastal Christian, ocean, city, cc ocean city.com. That's who's producing these podcasts that you guys are listening to, you can find out more information at Reed church podcast.com. Carl is also part of our missions team, which means he's useful in spaces and territories that we have not previously sent missionaries into, right, because he's a Christian psychiatrist. He has an amazing bio, where the Lord has taken him from and where he's placed them. Now he's the father of three incredible daughters. I want to introduce Dr. Carl Benzino, to the show. And if you don't mind, can you add to that we want to know who you are, and why this subject alone is of interest to you. Oh, thanks, Matt. And Ethan is great to be with you guys here and with the listeners. You know, at age five, God placed on my heart decision making, you know, it's a weird thing. Most kids don't grow up with that kind of mindset. But I always wanted to be somebody who helped people with decision making. And I didn't know that that professional was a psychiatrist as a kid, but you watch I Dream of Jeannie and Bob Newhart Show and mash, and you see the psychiatrist, oh, that's a psychiatrist. So that's what I want to be. As I grew up, it sort of fell into some problematic behavior and difficulties and struggles in life. And I ended up in jail for aggravated assault, after problems with drugs and alcohol. And it was at that time that God said to me, Carl, you made me your savior when you were a little kid, but you never made me the Lord of your life. You make me the Lord of your life, I'm gonna teach you things about decision making, they're gonna transform your life and help you transform other people's as well. And so being somebody who was always interested in decision making decision making sciences, that's what my specialty, that's what I look to do more of professionally. But then people would ask me, Well, you know, Carl, as a Christian, how do you do this as a, as a Christian? How do you how do you be a scientist and an a Christian at the same time, those seem like, you know, oxymorons, and I started looking. When we look at Jesus, why Jesus actually came to Earth. If we look at what Jesus said, He came to heal the brokenhearted and to set the captives free. So people in despair, hopeless, depression, and then captives, not legal captives. But people that were psychologically and spiritually captive to sin had built up barriers and walls in their in their life, to inhibit them psychologically from the richness of Godhead. And then in John 1010, he says, I came to that they might have life and have it abundantly. And again, it's not material abundance, but that psycho spiritual abundance of that, that peace, joy, freedom, contentment, things that we're looking for, in striving for the desires of our heart. And so, at that time that Jesus came, Satan was ruling and oppressing tyranny, pestilence, disease, addiction, suicide, torture, suffering. And so to me, Jesus came to start a behavioral health revolution. You know, he's called the wonderful counselor, and the great physician. And if you put those two together, those two professionals, that's a psychiatrist. So he's the perfect psychiatrist. And he came with this message that was so countercultural and revolutionary, about humility and about service, about loving your enemy about forgiveness, things that just Greek philosophers, Roman philosophers, they didn't, just didn't touch on those kinds of things. It turned the society upside down, and ever since then, has revolutionized our society. But unfortunately, the church has dropped the ball in this behavioral health revolution. And so I feel commissioned and especially called to reignite that behavioral health revolution that Jesus started, because addiction is the number one killer in the United States suicide, the number two killer in the United States and abortion is the number three killer in the United States. You never see that on the CDC list every year as they put down the list. They list cardiovascular and cancer and so on. But those are the three leading killers and what is more important is that the reason why those are the leading killers is because truth is dying, right? So as the church we know the truth, we know the church or the truth in Jesus Christ and we know the truth in the word about how to live life in a healthy way. So we need to then take up that mantle to be, you know, continue this behavioral health revolution that Jesus started. And it's the church's responsibility step in a time such as this, you know, as people are dying, that's our royal appointment to step into this great opportunity to help people with their psycho, psycho spiritual hurts that they have. And to be able to bring them the truth, to be able to role model it and to teach it and help them live it. Because Jesus said, You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. Ladies and gentlemen, now you know why we have Dr. Carl on the show in light of last episode, he is truly a professional he has swam in these spaces for decades at this particular point. So it comes with great experience great wisdom. And of course, he understands how it all interrelates with the Bible, and what God has divinely designed in the psyche or the soul. One of the things I heard you say recently, or maybe I read it, I don't know, is about relation to Nehemiah, the Prophet of the Old Testament and how Nehemiah physically rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem. And you're like, you took that and you said, My Space is going to involve spiritually emotionally, rebuilding the walls of behavioral health. And the reason that's fascinating and awesome at the same time, is because what we believe determines how we behave. So God does care about our behavioral health. Jesus did come to save us from our sin, heal our souls, our hearts and our minds, which I believe are the spaces that we often get disoriented or where despair lives or where confusion exists, or where worry, depression, anything that we have a hard time managing. Because we're human. It's usually in the heart and the mind. So there's a science behind all of that. And let me say one more thing for our audience. Because, you know, I didn't miss it. Now, you know why I personally love Dr. Carl, you heard from from what he's been through his past, he's got a colorful past, a criminal past. And yours truly does too. But what the Lord has done in both our lives to restore us, right to understanding what it meant to be a captive, me personally, spending time in prison. And yet being free, while physically incarcerated, that is what we're after and recharged. We want to point every listener to the healing of the gospel, and not just restore, right, I don't want to be restored back to who I was before I went to prison. I want to be transformed. That's right. Yeah. So it's a transformational process that you really took us through love it. So let's jump right in first question, because remind you we're using alliteration to express the false gospel. So we started with the prosperity gospel, we moved into the psychology gospel, we'll eventually touch on the progressive gospel, we'll land on the political gospel, and then we'll tie it all together with the pure gospel. So we took peas. I don't want anybody out there to misunderstand what we mean when we say psychology gospel, because there's beauty in psychology. And that's why we have a Christian psychiatrist with us, he's got to understand all that. So here's the first question help us understand the difference between the psychology gospel as the last show expressed and how the gospel impacts psychology. Okay, that's a great question here. So like you mentioned, Sookie, you know, the root for psychology and psychiatry is just a Greek term for self for the inner being or the essence of who we are, sort of the soul from a Christian vantage point that you know, that spiritual nature of who we are. Psychology is just the understanding of why we do what we do, because the things that we do, evolve or emanate from what's the essence of who we are, you know, guard your heart with all vigilance because out of it flows the wellspring of life. So the wellspring is our decisions that we make our behaviors that we do, and it comes from that inner place that inner essence place. A psychiatrist named Viktor Frankl who was a Jewish psychiatrist who lived through the Holocaust has a famous quote, between stimulus you know, and something acting on us stimulus and response, your decision there's a space in that space is our power to choose in that choice is our growth and our freedom. And I call that the essence space, you know, between you when you see a situation and then your response, that the decision that you make and that response that the that reveals the essence of who you are that reveals your inner being. So you know, we have an example of the Last Supper Peter is said, Hey, is told, hey, look, you're gonna deny me three times before the cockroach and he goes, I would never do that. In fact, I lay down my life for you before I do anything like that. But we know a few hours later, he totally chokes in the process and He reveals it Even though intellectually, I believe something in my heart in the essence and the inner being of who I am, I was believing and having faith in something totally different. I've whether I feel fear their opinions or a fear of getting tortured or getting captured, or, Hey, I'd worked my way up to number three on the Jewish hierarchy. And I'm going to go back down to the bottom of the totem pole. Again, we're not quite sure what he was fearing or what misinformation he was allowing to, to interfere with a good healthy decision making process, but his essence was revealed. And so, you know, psychology is just understanding why we do what we do psychiatry is the medical field of understanding why we do what we do. And then how do we treat that to be able to help people make healthier decisions in in their life? We know that decisions determine your life, you know, whether it's the decision about what happened on the cross, who is Jesus, who to marry a job, profession, or decisions determine our life and in powerful ways. But that inner essence of who we are. Jesus had a, you know, is that great? Physician, Wonderful, Counselor, that perfect psychiatrist, in Matthew 13, verse 15, he gives his psycho spiritual healing prescription, like any good clinician has a good prescription. And so he says, if they would see what their eyes, hear with their ears, understanding their heart and turn, I would heal them. So see with your eyes when you see reality, clearly, you see who you are. You see who God is. And you see the situation clearly, we see the truth, we see reality, to you hear with your ears, you hear the answer? So what is the answer that God's giving you in His Word through your devotional time through others, through preachers, then three, you understand how to connect the answer to the situation. And then four is not just intellectually understand, like Peter did, but we turn meaning we put it into action, we have faith in that answer faith enough that we're going to put it into action. And we put it into action in the in the, in the form of a decision, then Jesus heals us. Because as Matt said, that neuroplasticity when we make good decisions are our brain chemistry gets better, right? We make poor decisions, our brain chemistry gets worse. So when we use that truth, God's answers to inform our decision making. The quality of our decision making is good, therefore, we become healed psychologically and spiritually, and even our brain chemistry in that process. So that's where the gospel sort of intersect with the psychological psychology gospel, the psychology gospel is man's truth, right? informing our decision making, that's good, some of man's truth is okay, but some of it false significantly short, versus the real gospel is using God's truth, to inform our decision making as we use that to inform our decision making, spiritually, psychologically, and physiologically, we have incredible transformation. He said, you know, said so much, they're obviously using Viktor Frankl, Austrian neuroscientist, I believe, a survivor of Holocaust, one of his famous quotes that I've used in sermons before only because of the implication, and the background story he watched as people suffered. And he would actually pin them and go, they're not going to make it, because he would listen to their language and what they were speaking, and how they were responding to the circumstances around them. And then he watched those that he knew were going to make it I always call it suffering successfully, they were all in the same exact conditions, yet some of them succumbed to those conditions and died, and some made it out alive. And he's one of them. And he said this, those who have a lie to live can bear with almost any how that's
Ethan hoover:powerful. It's very
Unknown:resilience, right? For resilience, and all those resilience studies. Those are the things that looks at their spiritual, altruistic, having a leader having a target, having a goal, having training. You know, a lot of Christians don't like training. We don't like discipleship, we don't like that training process. But in order to move forward, we need to be trained. You know, that's part of that resiliency process that we see. Call you're part of the American Association of Christian counselors. Tell us a little bit, a little bit about that, while at the same time, tell us your connection with Liberty University and maybe even some of the spaces that you've been in in times past? And then I'm going to turn it over to Ethan for a second question. So we can go a little bit deeper with where we're at with the proper execution of biblical truth to help us understand the soul the mind so first start with Liberty University, and maybe the the organization's you've been apart often times past. Sure. So over the number of years here, I've been in ministry, I had a private practice. I worked in some hospital situations early on, but felt God calling me into this space. As you mentioned, I've I always sort of feel we have the Great Commission to go out and make disciples. But then I feel a sort of a special commissioning to reignite this behavioral health revolution and to be a Nehemiah. So as I have looked around and have been, there's not that many Christian psychiatrists, unfortunately, we're growing in popularity, maybe, but there's increasing numbers, but a lot of different organizations want to need a Christian psychiatrist so I get an opportunity to work in a lot of different spaces with mission organizations have been to Kenya have been to Uganda to work with some of those lost boys that were conscripted by Joseph Kony and his atrocious behaviors over in Africa. I was the first psychiatrists invited into Iraq during the war in 2007, to bring a Christian curriculum to a Muslim nation to help in healing and to sort of revamp their counseling and psychiatry services their had been able to testify at the White House, the President Bush's bioethics committee on pro life issues, right of conscious separation of church and state, what does that really mean? Abortion physician assisted suicide in many different legislatures around the country. But then I've started a ministry Lighthouse network to help connect hurting people, to Christian providers to help meet that need instead of going to secular options. And there's Christian options. How do we connect those people struggling to people that will bring them the truth in the form of practical neuro theology or psychological counseling. I started a very unique a treatment facility down in Florida called Honey Lake clinic that we had pastor Matt at. And just a great unique situation there, I want to make a lot more of those. And so to move into a bigger space, I have consulted with Focus on the Family, Bubba and Cindy Kathy of Chick fil A I'm on they're one of their advisors and consultants to help them in the Christian behavioral health space, and currently work with the American Association of Christian counselors. They are the biggest Christian behavioral health organization in the world. And I'm their medical director that we put out a lot of resources to help therapists and clinicians sort of up their game and integrate the science that were taught with good Biblical understanding and truths, but then also to how to help lay people that are interested in getting into this space, how to teach them how to be good psychospiritual first responders, American Association of Christian counselors is run by our president Tim Clinton at the ACC who was a Liberty grad. So they're right next to liberty. So they do a lot of projects together with liberty. Liberty has a medical school, law school psychology program, nurse practitioner program, nursing school, the biggest masters level therapists program. So there's a lot of skilled warriors there to be able to be in the spiritual world, because the battlefield is the mind and we need more skilled laborers, more special ops, teams Delta Force Greenbrae, to be in that battlefield against Satan. That's what I'm interested in. So hold your question, Ethan. I'm highly interested in obviously, the theme of the show, which is what I'm passionate about. We call it recharge, because mind you didn't go to seminary to be here. So I learned a lot of ministry and a lot of walking out my faith in very trying times. So it was when the rubber of faith met the road, aka in prison. And Carl said something that was interesting. People maybe in past times, would come to the church and leave out the side because they didn't feel understood. Or they couldn't find anybody to listen to them. Maybe we misdiagnosed what they were even struggling with. So I'm curious about where has the church gone wrong. Here's one of our tags, we say often that we will reach the unchurched that's the person that will never come to church, no spiritual background, not raised in a religious context. We will reach the D church that's something that might have you just got them talking about came in, was tweaked, left, haven't seen them since we'll reach the unchurched and the D church. When the church the true church is recharged when we come back to what is God expecting of us. I remember in prison, which is a dormitory setting 37 other men beside myself. And this is when I got really interested in obviously the Word of God, but at the same time human behavior because you got nothing else to do besides watching the idiosyncrasies of my fellow inmates. And I'm like, this is fascinating. I've always been an avid people watcher, at malls on the beach on the boardwalk. I can do it all day long. It's hilarious. It's hilarious. Yeah. But I would make myself available, like available. I pride myself as a minister of the gospel to be available and accessible. I don't care who it is, I want to make sure I give them my undivided attention. And I would make myself available and guys from all types of spiritual backgrounds carrying so much luggage, they would come into my three by eight area and I would just sit there and listen and a lot of times, I would barely get a word in. Right a lot of times I would maybe weave in a Bible gem or a proverb or hey, man read this, but most of the time I just listened right? I would just lend an ear And that's exhausting to listen to somebody's problems, but I'll never forget it. Another inmate a Brazilian guy named Freddie, he called me over one day he goes, he goes, Matthews, come here. So I come up to Freddie. I'm like, What's up? Freddie goes, Oh, man, you really listen to people. I'm like, Oh, thank you. Freddie goes, No, you don't understand what I'm saying. You really listen to people. I'm like, Thank you, Fred. He goes, No, no, listen to me. You listen with your eyes. I'm like, That's a compliment. He goes, No, no, no, no, you listen to me. He's a you listen to people so much, that when they get done telling you their problems, their problems become your problem. And I remember thinking, so true. But there was like a release to a lot of these guys that were able to share what it was that was weighing their souls down. And I don't know if it helped heal the root causes. But there's a beauty and probably Dr. Carr, listening to people, and then hopefully allowing the Holy Spirit to provide the proper diagnosis to be able to maybe touch on whatever that nerve is. So talk us through what you may have seen in time space, where is the church gone wrong? And how can we be recharged in this area? Well, I think that's a great point you made about listening. It's so powerful, but it's something that we're not very good at, even with God, we're good at talking to God. But we listen very much to guy, we just sort of shoot up a bunch of, you know, hey, bless this, I need help with this, hold me this, or you're awesome this and, but boy, he got a lot of stuff that he wants to say to us, too, but we're not very good at listening. So when you listen to somebody, you give them honor, you give them respect, you give them a position, you give them sort of equal footing with you in the process. And for most people that that's an elevation, you know, for them from where we sort of feel beat down. You know, in our personal space, a lot of times, whenever people come to me as a psychiatrist, within, you know, I'm pretty good at what I do. But most psychiatrists are good at this. Also, within about five minutes, I have a pretty good idea of what's going on with that person. I can't tell them that. Because I have no bridge, I have no connection, I have no credibility. They don't trust me yet. So what do I do? I asked them a lot of questions. And I listened to answers. That hopefully reinforces that, yeah, I have come to the right diagnosis or assessment of the situation and have a better understanding of who they are, as you know, all the other details that help fill in this, you know, the sort of goal that we're striving for. But it also gives me an understanding of, well, I'm going to have to tell them my assessment or my diagnosis, but I need to know the right language, I need to know the culture which they live in, to be able to give them the right answer. So it is sort of a quick, crude example would be if I have to tell somebody that they have cancer, and if they're 45, I'm going to tell them in one way, if they're seven, I'm going to tell them in a different way, even though they have the same exact diagnosis, there's gonna be a different way that I communicate that diagnosis based on who they are, what they are, what they've been through in life, and what they can comprehend and take in. And so listening allows me those cues to help me understand what were they at? And what do they need at that moment. And most of the times people just need somebody that is going to be there and be compassionately with them during this adversity, right. That sounds
Ethan hoover:like empathy, like coming to their level understanding, you said that Freddie was like, my problems become your problems. And it's like that that's empathy. That's literally like, you're coming right alongside somebody. Right?
Unknown:So it's empathy. And what we call attunement, meaning you're tuning in to their feelings, and where they are, cognitively, you're tuning into that state. And you're aligning yourself with that, so that you can engage with them in a way that they're going to understand and connect with. So they feel that yeah, they're in this with me. And once they feel that they're in this, you're in this with them, there's a bond that builds that allows them to trust now, it builds us a bridge so they can trust that whatever information I have to send them is going to be received a lot more easily and more readily by them. In that process. Now that I have that trust, I have that credibility. I've attuned with them. I've been like you say empathy, be able to empathize with them and then compassionately taking that information. So some people can empathize but they can't compassionately, respond back or you know, how to be able to empathize but then compassionately, engage and attune to where that person is so that we can be in that same space with him. Because most people feel isolated, they feel alone, they feel that their island is to keeps on drifting from people from community from their loved ones from God. And we want them to know that you know, you're, you're back and you have people with you. We're drawing you back closer. We're all in this together. Seaton wants to divide and conquer, you know, and pick us off one by one and have us feel isolated. When we're not really isolated. You know, the, to me the opposite of addiction is belonging and whenever We don't feel we belong, we then develop relationships with other things to connect to or have a relationship with or whether it's substance, whether it's pornography, whether it's power control, work, exercise, there's so many things that we develop a relationship with, when we don't feel we belong. And whenever you listen, whenever you connect, and as a church whenever we come alongside, not with platitudes, not with Bible verses, not with, oh, man, you just need to do this and right, we make it seem so simple. You know, if it was that simple that, you know, the guy has been struggling for 15 years, or, you know, there's a girl that parents brought to me with the eating disorder, she was like 75 pounds, and 22 years old, five foot three. And she said, they just kept on telling her, she needs us to work on these verses, and pray harder and have more faith in God. And believe me, all those things are very important. But at that time in space, that wasn't what she really needed. At that moment. She just needed some connection and people to attune with her to be in the fight with her to put their arm around her and say, yeah, we can do this together. Not sure how, what is going to be not sure what it's going to be like, but we can do this together. So one way that, you know that to that scenario, whoever was advising her people that loved her, were they just simply telling her basically, like, pull yourself up by your bootstraps? Is that like the message of self effort? Like just do this? That's that'll help fix you or, or work harder, that'll help fix you. So how do you properly integrate Bible or biblical truth? When somebody is in that zone? Yeah. So I think that what they were trying to do is, you know, they were caring for her. They knew that God had answers for her, they were giving these godly answers. But there was a bunch of other dominoes that needed to be connected between the the dominoes of God and the dominoes of where she was, it was like 15 other steps that needed to transpire. And a lot of times, Christians we don't do a very good job with science. So we get very afraid of science for thinking science comes from Darwin, or science comes from Freud. So, you know, this whole psychological arena of science. You know, to me, science is just the study of what God made, understanding how he designed it to function, and then learning how to maximally steward it for His glory. And so the mind to me, obviously, as a psychiatrist, I'm biased, but I think is the coolest thing that God's ever designed and made. And as the designer of our mind, he, just like any designer, when they design something, they don't make you guess, a car, Kay Carl, you're gonna have to guess at how to get the most out of this computer, either this bicycle or out of this bookcase. They give us an instruction manual. And so God to be able to get the most out of our mind, give us the instruction manual, the BI b l e, the best instruction book for living every day. And there's a lot of good instruction about how our mind works. You know, neuroplasticity, you know, the Bible doesn't use neuroplasticity, but it use things like renewing the mind. And if we don't make decisions in the right way, then we make decisions the wrong way. In science, we call it chemically imbalanced or short circuited, and the Bible calls it the reprobate mind or the degenerate mind or the double minded person or scar tissue on the soul. So we need to be able to understand that, wow, there's a lot of good science, a good understanding of how God designed our mind to work. So whenever we give somebody a hey, look, here's a Bible verse. You know, that's just sort of a, that's a raw resource. We need to help them understand what then how do I apply this based on who I am, how God designed my mind to work, how I make decisions. So what I try to do with people is just like in The Wizard of Oz, whenever, you know, Dorothy and her buds, you know, they melt the witch, they bring the broomstick back, they see the great wizard in the Grand Hall, and this big skeletal heads booming loud, Minister voice flames and smoke going up, who there enters the Hall of Oz, and they're trembling, they're afraid they they just want to get out of there as quick as possible. But they know they can't get to the promised land of Kansas, unless they go through the wizard. But then toto goes over to the corner, and he just pulls back the curtain and it's Wow, it's just this little man in a megaphone that says it's not really that complex. It's not that mysterious, not that overwhelming. We can understand this, navigate it and steward it well, to get to the promised land. And so I just tried to pull back the curtain on some spiritual principles and psychological principles to show people Wow, the mind isn't that mysterious complex? Oh, my gosh, this the way God made me and I'm stuck with it. And this is the way I'll forever have to be. No, there's great opportunity. There's great possibilities of transformation and change. But we have to understand how we use the mind that this great psychological apparatus that God has given us there's rules to how it works. And we need to understand that rule in that process to be able to not just be hearers of the word like they were trying to get that girl to do but how to actually be doers of the word. How do we implement that truth and through the psychological apparatus that God's given us so we can be salt and light and live the abundant life. Remember, when we say psychology gospel, we're talking about a message that is more about me, myself and I it's the journey you take from self to self, right? It doesn't land you on Jesus and you don't fall or surrender at his feet. and take His truths and then help. He helps you build up that psyche or that soul. Right, David? He wrote multiple Psalms where he was calling out from the bottom of his soul, right? In Salem, he's talking to himself like, why are you downcast Oh, my soul, like you're looking in the wrong direction. So I don't need a message that tells me to focus harder. I need a message that provides this lens to look at God. And then when I see God properly, clearly, His truths begin to minister to me. And like Dr. Carl said, That's the word renewal, right? renew your mind. The word renew is renovate your mind were broken. I think that's what's missing in the psychology gospel, you never told her broken?
Ethan hoover:So I had a question in the space where God's using you. Obviously, he's using you in many different spaces. But what is the common problem that you see? And what's usually the biblical solution to that?
Unknown:Boy? That's great question. Yeah, probably, it comes down to that Satan, that we're in a spiritual war. And people don't realize we're in a spiritual war. There's this unconscious process that goes on inside of us. So for listeners to understand, you know, there's a conscious process, those are the things that are right in the forefront of my mind that I am aware of right now. So I'm aware of that boy, you know, we're here in Matt's Basement, my hands are a little chilly. Boy, I had something to eat earlier today and feel a little bit hungry. Now though, I'm trying to think of these words, I'm a little bit nervous, because I'm speaking to people I can't see. But then there's a whole bunch of other stuff in the unconscious that if I dig a little deeper, wow, as a kid, I was a stutter. And people made fun of me for my speaking and I had a bad list. And I'm always nervous about speaking in front of people, because I want their approval, and I want their acceptance. So we have these unconscious stuff that's rolling in. And they all all that stuff affects our decisions. We have these some we have these file cabinets in our head of all these experiences, and then all the interpretations that we have from those experiences. And usually that unconscious stuff, whenever we're not aware of it, we don't understand it. It usually guides that flesh to respond first in a situation. And our flesh usually responds in a way that's survival. It's very meat oriented, not big picture oriented, but how do I survive the here and now it's about protection of me, I've been hurt in the past, I don't want to ever be hurt again. Nobody likes to get hurt. Nobody likes the feeling of getting hurt, whether it's psychologically spiritually or relationally, or, or physically. So we do all these things that our unconscious misinterpretations sort of push us to do, and then we make these wrong decisions. So I think that the biggest thing I see is that these lies that Satan perpetrates, we all have sort of embedded in our DNA, because like we talked about psychology gospel is that we're all inherently good, right? But we're not inherently good. We're all sinners. We're in need of a savior in the process. And so with that, those unconscious stuff that's there, it's almost always interpreted through a me centered, faulty lens. And so then we store that data is information, we call it that information. And it's wrong information. So we're using wrong information to make decisions. So unless we do some self reflection, which most people don't like to do any self reflection or any real, honest, vulnerable self reflection, we're not going to understand well, what is that data? What is that information that is causing me to make wrong decisions in the here and now?
Ethan hoover:That's really good. So talking about behavior and the mind? How does behavioral and mental health integrate in our spiritual or Christian walk?
Unknown:So I think like we talked about, you know, earlier, we were making these decisions and decisions then lead to behaviors, depending on what our spiritual maturity is, how much truth we have and how much we trust that truth. I think we have a lot of people inundated with so much. Podcasts, books, sermons, sermons on tape, go online, and and we're building these great spiritual libraries of people and these expansive minds. But is it really application? What is application look like? In order to apply? We need to understand how our mind works. What are our emotions? What are our thoughts? How does that unconscious affect our decision making process? How do I weigh options? What do I look at? What's like, my standards are the values that I use to assess pros and cons of those options? Is it me center standard? Is it God and kingdom centered standards? You know, I've been bought at a price. My life is his but oftentimes I don't live like my life is I live like my life is mine. Right? And I'm self protective about everything instead of Oh, no, it's really about him. And whenever I'm the least, then he's, you know, his strength is greater in me. In the process, and I'm actually even better. And I think that yeah, we do want to know who God is, obviously, and being able to see him clearly. But we need to see ourself clearly, as well, because we need to see who we are what we need to die to what we need to repent from what our weak points are, because Satan knows our weak points, he's going to target those very strategically to continue to trip us up. And so I think the church has a hard time recognizing those aspects, that unconscious process of, of how God designed us and what goes into that inner being being played out into our daily activities and function, the more we can base that on the truth, then the more healthy our decisions are going to be, the more healthier behaviors are going to be. We're going to grow ourselves individually. But as far as being able to be salt and light in this world, if people will be looking at say, hey, I want to be what that is, you know, instead of us trying to bribe people to come to church or say, hey, no, we really are just get to know us. And we're actually better in the long run. Than then when we look on the surface, we should be so attractive, the way we handle adversity, the way we handle trials and tribulations be like, Man, I want to be part of that club, basically. And again, my mind goes right to the mentioning of truth versus lies. And a lot of these problems that all of us have, are probably a result of believing a lie, some type of lie at some particular place in my past, or my present, or even my future. And untangling that. And the only thing that can untangle lies is truth. So you're basically a truth dispenser, you might dispense some other stuff along the way. But you're ultimately pointing people to truth. And I love how he talked about being salt and light. I mean, I talk about that often, because I believe with all my heart, we might, we're gonna imperfectly execute our Christian walk, right? Nobody's gonna perfectly executed Jesus did that. We're imperfectly executing it. I want to be honest with my flaws, my faults, my failures, I'm broken, I'm jacked up, I don't want to stay there. I want to constantly come back to the great physician. He's the one that heals me. He says that right? I'm tired. Come to me, all who are weary? Are you tired of life? Are you heavy laden? Is there something weighing on you come to me, I'll give you rest. I'll infuse your soul with rest. And then he says something interesting. link up with me or yoke to me. And that idea was a harness that two oxen would use. And one oxen was stronger than the other. And there'd be a lead ox and an assistant ox. And he's like, I'll be the lead ox, you just go with the flow of grace and where grace is able to have access to our souls. That's what Paul was like, remove this thing from me this thorn this thing in my flesh, this, this point of contention, remove it. And the answer that Christ gives him? No, no, I'm not going to remove it. Not only is this not for removal, this is by my approval. And he says, My grace is sufficient. And then Paul explodes. He's in the same infirmity that he was trying to get removed. And he goes, I'm going to, I'm going to rejoice in this. And why because he realized in that moment, in his weakness, Christ, was his strength. So let me just kind of make sure our listeners understand the psychology gospel is about feeling good. Period. We want to move from feeling good to feeling God, the pure gospel says, feel God, and he's the one that begins to unwind some of these things that are dysfunctional in our soul. So last episode, we talked about self gotta die. And like, it's got to die. Like, I know exactly what that means. Because I'm a selfish individual. So self has to die. But how do we properly esteem self from a biblical lens, and then maybe touch on, because we're seeing an interesting correlation between suicide in our youth depression, on the rise in mental health issues, mental illnesses in our youth, and from the amount of screen time that these kids have. So it's interesting, we use the word lens earlier, is there a correlation behind looking out into what is called the World Wide Web and looking at other people's lives that typically, if you're going to reduce what social media is, it's basically the psychology gospel on steroids, because everybody's putting out the best self. And then I measure up my life with that person's life. And then there's a reverse effect. I'll never be as pretty as them. I'll never have as many followers as them and then then depression, and then low self esteem, and then low self value and then suicidal ideation. And then goodness, I mean, is that not the spiral effect and why the Church of Jesus Christ needs to be more active in offering the hope that we have? So So I think we all you know, one of the fallacies that we all struggle with is thinking we know it all about ourselves. And we can write the instruction manual. We can be the sort of the writer of the story instead of God being the writer and us just being an actor. It just like whenever a kid thinks that they know what the right bedtime is that they can have dessert that you know, before any meal that they don't have to do their homework and they can still be a great student or a great baseball player without practice. I'll just show up at the game, you know in Excel But the parent, the coach, the teacher, they really know what the potential for that kid is. And they put them through things that that person isn't that thrilled about. It might even give them some hardship, they feel beat down, rejected, abandon frustrated, the coach doesn't care about me, they don't know what they're talking about. They know, they just have their goal in mind and not my goal in mind. That's why we need to think of God, you know, is being able to be that perfect parent, that perfect teacher, that perfect coach that knows what our potential is that has a goal for us, has that abundant life, but also knows how to keep us and hopefully save us from the self sabotage, and screwing it up on our own if left to our own device. You know, I often ask kids who think they know it all. You know, there's 13 years old and say, Well, how about if we go back two years to when you were 11? Did you think you knew it all? Then they go? Yeah. Well, now that you're 13, you realize you didn't know it all, then because you know more now? Yeah, I guess? Well, when you're 15, you're going to do the same thing when you're 13. And when you're 21, you're going to look back at 15. And think Well, I thought I knew it all then. But now I know a lot more now. I hope you don't feel caught up in the same lie of thinking, Oh, wow. Now at 21. I know it all. And so as Christians, sometimes we think we know it all we know more than God, and we don't submit to his authority, and to his teaching, and to the discipleship of well, how do we practice and train now it just doesn't come as this miraculous, you know, Thunderbolts from heaven, when we graduate high school that were bestowed with all this cool, powerful decision making skill. It's a process of training and taking in the word, applying it, do some reflection with him reflection of ourself, honestly, and community to practice with and to give us feedback for God to speak through for us to achieve that abundant life, that full living that God intends for us. That isn't through us, for us to help self esteem, but to us to be able to feel loved to be able to love ourself in a healthy way, because he's the one who provides all that for us. So that is basically why this podcast is so important. We want to provide the resources that at least get you thinking in a biblical way. What are you to do? Well, you're to make sure that you are surrounding yourself with other godly individuals, you attend a healthy, biblically based church that is going to speak the truth. And some of those truths are hard to hear. But just like medicine that goes down, sometimes it's bitter, but it has a healing, impact and effect. And that's what the Word of God is, for us being honest, where you're at, right, finding people like Dr. Cole in your area that are Christian first, in their expertise, they have a really good handle of the scriptures, and can of course, help you get to a better place not for self sake, but for Christ's sake. And I think that is what Dr. Carl helped us understand. In today's episode Philippians 413, I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me that is not an I can do it all mentality that is I can do according to God's will mentality. And those are things in our dispositions or attitudes in our psyche or soul response, that God is our ultimate strength. He's our Helper, the Holy Spirit inside of us. So that's what research is all about. Dr. Carl, we are grateful for you joining us spending time with us recording here and blessing our listeners. How can our listeners find out more information about you or reaching out about your area of expertise? What would you want them to know about? How to get ahold of you? Yeah, just you can call me I'll give you my phone number. Not a lot of psychiatrists do that. 215-630-8846, my email que benzino@gmail.com. And I did just a bunch of things a bunch of places. So it's hard to you can google my name, and you'll see a bunch of other educational stuff I've done all over the place. But don't listen to everything that is spoken about me out there because I got a lot of haters from some other factions that aren't thrilled with some of the testimony and some of the things I do on behalf of God. So wow, he just threw his number out there. Is it Carl, I heard you on a recharge podcast. Maybe our audience
Ethan hoover:is good luck doctor
Unknown:will include, you know, his email in the show notes and obviously a link to his page at Coastal Christian where you can read about his bio and reach out to him and that way so close us down, Ethan. This has been a very full show. We are looking forward to jumping into the progressive gospel. Next week. That one is chock full of content. And we really want to ground the believer out there in the proper Biblical understanding, right. We call it a biblical worldview. So land a plane for us, Ethan.
Ethan hoover:Yeah. Well, thank you everyone for joining us for this little extra surprise episode. We hope that you were blessed by it. And if you have any questions regarding this Episode in the content we discussed, make sure to submit your questions for our q&a Episode happening at the end of season one. You can do that right on recharge podcast.com. Go ahead, submit your questions. We can't stress that enough. Make sure to subscribe and turn notifications on so that you get notified for the next episode, and share the podcast on Facebook or your Instagram story and tag us using the hashtag hashtag we churched. And if you're wanting to learn more about us your hosts, the podcast our church our missionaries, like Dr. Carl, or apply to sponsor a future season of this podcast you can also visit recharge podcast.com That about wraps it up we'll see you guys in the next one. God bless