The Lie of Separation of Church & State (Political Gospel | Part 2) - The False Gospel E9
Mar 14, 2022Season 1Episode 9
Coastal Christian Ocean City
Ethan Hoover & Matthew Maher continue their conversation around the Political Gospel and, more specifically, the myth about separation of Church & State. Join them in their discussion about historical facts, the vicious cycle of rebellious men in the Bible, and how Christians should operate within the State in today's culture.
What’s Covered in This Episode:
Political Gospel (Part 1) Review
Ecclesia
Separation of Church & State: Introduced
"There would be no State without the Church"
Biblical Morals/Values
Where Did Separation of Church & State Come From?
Thomas Jefferson's Letter to Danbury Baptist Church
The Lie
The Truth (Actual Context)
The Negative Trajectory of Legislative Decisions Stems from This Statement Being Taken Out of Context
How is the Church to Operate Within the State?
The "Vicious Cycle" in the Bible
What We're Seeing Today
What Are We to Do Now?
Why Are We Talking About This?
Rechurched = Having a Biblical Worldview
We Delay the Decay of the Day by Being in the Way
Call to Action: Engage in Your Community!
How Can Young People Get Involved?
Always Resort to What is Christian
What Does this Have to Do with the False Gospel?
"When the Message is Polarized, it then Becomes Politicized. Faith that is Politicized Blurs Our Priorities."
Ethan Hoover & Matthew Maher continue their conversation around the Political Gospel and, more specifically, the myth about separation of Church & State. Join them in their discussion about historical facts, the vicious cycle of rebellious men in the Bible, and how Christians should operate within the State in today's culture.
What’s Covered in This Episode:
Political Gospel (Part 1) Review
Ecclesia
Separation of Church & State: Introduced
"There would be no State without the Church"
Biblical Morals/Values
Where Did Separation of Church & State Come From?
Thomas Jefferson's Letter to Danbury Baptist Church
The Lie
The Truth (Actual Context)
The Negative Trajectory of Legislative Decisions Stems from This Statement Being Taken Out of Context
How is the Church to Operate Within the State?
The "Vicious Cycle" in the Bible
What We're Seeing Today
What Are We to Do Now?
Why Are We Talking About This?
Rechurched = Having a Biblical Worldview
We Delay the Decay of the Day by Being in the Way
Call to Action: Engage in Your Community!
How Can Young People Get Involved?
Always Resort to What is Christian
What Does this Have to Do with the False Gospel?
"When the Message is Polarized, it then Becomes Politicized. Faith that is Politicized Blurs Our Priorities."
You are listening to research, a podcast aimed at instigating Christians to be Christian. Hey, what's up everybody? My name is Ethan. And you're listening to re churched a podcast where we inspire conscience and instigate conviction. So people in today's church made sure they know God and His Word, and show God to those around them. I'm joined by my co host, Matthew Mayer. What's up, man?
Unknown:
What's going on? Guys? Thank you so much for your support.
Ethan hoover:
Yeah, thank you. And this is part two of the political gospel episode. So Matt hinted at what we're going to be talking about today in the last episode, which is separation of church and state. Yes. But before we get there, I just want to do a little quick shout out for q&a episode coming up. If you will, let me just start by saying this. We've talked about a lot of stuff this season, a lot of some heavy duty stuff. And you probably have questions. If you don't have questions, I'd be shocked because there's so many different trains of thought we could go down. If you have a question, we want you to submit your question for q&a episode that is happening at the end of season one. But don't wait to submit your question go to read church podcast.com. Submit your question for season one, so that we can hopefully answer it in that episode. So without further ado, let's start by doing a little review of the political gospel, part one,
Unknown:
I think that'll be helpful to kind of walk us down this road to where we are today. Right? Remember, the political gospel places the hope for the people, the people that call themselves Christians in a political power. So there's error number one, that we would believe that man, whoever that man may be, usually it's a president or a politician is going to be able to save us, or he's going to be able to restore our value system, or whatever that looks like. As opposed to us trusting fully in God's power, spiritual power hat at the same time. There is a very healthy integration in engaging in the political arena. So the Gospel itself is political. It's this, it's the power of God to save the soul. But it has a political component to it. Why? Because we just, we define politics, it means to engage in the affairs of a community. In fact, it's almost embedded in the word Ecclesia. That's the word we get for church. The Ecclesia is the public assembling of people to discuss the common concerns of their day. And it wasn't a spiritual word until Jesus took it from the secular world and made it a sacred movement. He said, I'll build my Ecclesia church, and the gates of Hades, the powers of hell will not be able to prevail against my movement. And anyone that makes Jesus their Lord and Savior becomes part of this church. So the church is God's movement on Earth, his body on Earth, placed in a certain domain of time, placed it in a certain place. The church is global, by the way. So the church in the American context is what we're handling right now. And there's been error in the Christians that would say, we're going to trust in a man. Okay? You got to be able to remove your hands from man. But you also got to engage in such a way that, you know, the political system is where laws are passed. So we should care why, because legislation, and laws affect humanity. So we want more laws, we want laws that are in alignment with the Word of God, but the heart if it doesn't change, then it doesn't matter. who's in power. Right? Does that make sense? Yeah. So no amount of laws or policy can set people straight outwardly. However, Romans 13 gives us laws are useful by God to restrain evil sustain good. So if the laws of a government aren't honoring good and punishing evil, in fact, they're doing the opposite. They're honoring evil and punishing good, then that government forfeits their divine appointment. So what is the Christian to do? Well, the Christian is not supposed to use separation of church and state as an excuse not to engage. And here's why in the 30s separation of church and state existed with the Nazi government, which was the Nazi Socialist Party, Hitler, who rises to power, and he uses the church as one of his arms to say, you can't engage with me, but I can engage with you. So he made them think they shouldn't engage with the state. Well, at the same time, the state would dictate what they could say what they could believe. And you want to know why the passers at that time Ethan were salaried by the state. So they were worried about their law. livelihood. If I speak out against the state, I can lose my income. So many of these churches in Nazi Germany were silent. And here's what happens separation of church and state and that context led to submission of church to state. Now, in the American context, our governmental framework is completely different. In fact, there'd be no state without the church, the biblical values that frame our governmental framework are to be considered, are their ills and evils in our history, yes. But let's uphold what is good. And what is good is what is defined by God. So then that's where we start. And there's a reason why the 10 commandments were placed in every courtroom. In America, it's because we actually believe in divine law. And then the Christian goes, You know what, I know God's law should be supreme. I believe in his order. However, I'm not going to touch the political arena, because separation of church and state and this we get this one line that was taken out of context, from a letter that was actually written by you ready? Dan's Barry Baptists in Connecticut, they were writing to Thomas Jefferson, did you know that all of these colonies that originally formed what we'll call let's just call it New England, because that's what they called it, right? They came from where? England? Yeah, Great Britain and new New England, you go, this is like history. And the colonies. As they spread out. They just started, they started to have structure and each colony became a state. Now, they weren't ratified yet. But in the beginning stages of the government, their concern was, our state is a certain denomination, let's just say Baptists. So they write to Thomas Jefferson and say, Hey, we're concerned that our denomination is going to be swallowed by the state, like, you're going to establish a state religion, because that's what they just came from. Where the state was God, that's interesting. So they say, Hey, can you help us understand where we don't want to lose our Baptist denomination? Mind you every other colony? They might have been a different denomination. But guess what they all prescribe to the Bible? Christianity? Yes, yes. Yes. So as a land because a nation is is made up of its people, the majority of the land was Christian. Yeah, but what about slavery, wicked, evil should be condemned, like, Don't muddy the the concept of the argument, because there was wickedness in the sinful heart of man, at the early stages here, look at what was good. And there was a war to settle that. So let's make sure we understand people died, hundreds of 1000s of people died because of that Civil War to right, a wrong and an evil. Now, let's move on. So they write to Thomas Jefferson, and he writes back a letter basically saying this, and I can quote it, we can pull it up. And I can read it exactly as he wrote it, just so we understand. Let's do that. So let's look at that letter. That's written January 1 1802. So at this point, the governmental framework seems to be taking shape 1776 Bill of Rights, the amendments that are coming right, so now we have what we call the establishment call clause. And this was the concern with the state swoop in and govern religion. That's what they asked, this is what he responds, reading a body of the letter, not the entire letter, believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only and not opinions, contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people, which declare that their legislator should make note here to make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. And then here's the most famous line, thus, building a wall of separation between church and state. Did you just hear the context there? Yeah. And it's totally different than what we think that's right. And all it takes is a Google search to read the actual letter. They were saying to him, we're worried about the state coming in, and making state religion, which is what they just came from. He says, Don't worry about that. Your religion will be intact. In fact, our government was founded on religious ideals. So please know there's going to be a wall where we can't come to you, because you've already infused us and influenced us, and they were concerned about their denomination being taken away. So it wasn't like religion versus godlessness. It was religion versus religion. It was a Christian land with Christian people and Christian values. So we take that lie and we believe it All the decades later, because through the political arena, the secular world has been able to overthrow religious principles, Bible reading and schools, prayer in schools. And you see a complete trajectory going in the negative direction. From that point forward. That's not I mean, I can go even back further through the 1800s, into the early 1900s. And eventually to where we're at in 2022. And you can trace it when man that believes in God does not do what God has called that man to do. There's a vacuum, and in the vacuum, it's filled with the opposite of God, that's evil. That's lawlessness. And that is, of course, immorality.
Ethan hoover:
So how is church to then operate within the state?
Unknown:
So obviously, the context has changed the previous state that we were supposed to operate in, we were supposed to maintain it. We were supposed to sustain it. We were supposed to be the conscience of this nation. Right blessed as a nation who, whose God is the Lord, none more than Israel and America. And that's not putting America on the same stage as Israel. Israel stands alone. And that is a whole nother episode for recharged. But in the context we have, the church was the influence of the people. That's why decades ago, Ethan, that's why you see even in our media, like my mom and dad, your mom and dad, when they were watching TV back in the day, there were no curse words. Why was there no curse words? Why was there nothing profane? Why was there no sexual innuendos? Why was there no sexual promiscuity? Why was none of that allowed? So biblical value and biblical values ruled the land culture? That's not true. Yes, it is true. Why is there churches on every corner block all across this country? They might not be open. Why are they there? Because it was a biblically based land. Why was every Ivy League this is 1600 1700 1800, Ivy League schools, you name them, especially in the northeast, you name them, Google Ivy League schools origin, and you will find they all started as Christian seminaries. Yeah, Harvard, Princeton, they all had Latin phrases or mantras that dealt with the Bible. And what they've done over the years is an example of what we've done. They just took out any mentioning of divine or God. So all these Ivy League mottos dealt with light truth, but all hinge to Christ Church, Christ's glory, and they've just removed them. A lot of them are seminary, like they're all seminary seminars. So don't get me that this land wasn't founded in a very unique manner, and that God didn't shed His grace on the, and then we got comfortable. And this is the vicious cycle that you see in the Bible. What happens to Israel? God comes in, gives them liberty gives them life. They of course, are appreciative, they praise him, but slowly but surely, Ethan, they get complacent. Complacency always rolls over to some form of pleasure, or sin or bondage, bondage, then, of course, gets us to call back out to God. God then goes, Okay, now I have your undivided attention. Are you repentant, we repent, he comes in, he sets us free again, and you get this vicious cycle take place. And that's what happens here. So we've gotten comfortable, and the enemy has swooped in. He's circumvented and hijacked all of these systems. And we are in a situation where now again, a lot of believers, so separation of church and state, and I'm going we just kind of took care of that we square that away. So what are we to do now? We are still to do the next righteous thing as believers, is it going to be harder? Yes. Is the pressure going to be on? Absolutely? Are you now going to be considered more than ever before? A hater, a bigot, a racist, a sexist? And all the all the names that can be hurled at you? Yes. 1,000,000%. However, are you still willing to stand even though everybody around you is bowing down?
Ethan hoover:
So because of all that we've become content and complacent as a church and kind of been lulled to sleep. You mentioned that before. So why are we talking about this in the church?
Unknown:
Right, remember, so if we don't have a proper Biblical worldview, to engage the world around us, and be what God has called us to be as one individually a Christian salt and light and 1000 other characteristics that are reflective of God's glory, like Jesus to the church, globally, corporately. The church is God's movement on Earth. We are heavens witness on Earth. So we basically are supposed to set The social consensus when we don't, then the world will set that pulse. So we see what we see today, as a result of many Christians saying, You know what, I'm alright with a godless state, like I'm okay. And as I said earlier, I'm just passing through here. And then we remove ourselves from culture. And then we expect, of course, God to use us when he can't, unless we put ourselves out there to be used. And so I think when an issue is politicized, the church seems to be neutralized, right? Well, but the state and secular will beat me to it, I can't touch it. Like, and that's been the argument that I've Oh, my gosh, I've had so many conversations with people that say they believe in God, and I can't judge whether or not they're saved. But that's their argument like, well, it's now a politicized issue, like masks, or the VAX, or mandates, I mean, named the issue, social justice, all of it has entered the political realm. And then we go, well, we can't touch it anymore. It's untouchable. We shouldn't speak about it. And when we don't speak about it, Ethan, when we don't provide biblical context, biblical truth, we will watch the world take over and add their narrative to it right?
Ethan hoover:
Because our purpose is to you said it before delay the decay of the day. Right, right.
Unknown:
That's right. Yeah,
Ethan hoover:
we stand in the way. That's right. delay the decay of the day. I think that's how you said it.
Unknown:
We delay the decay of the day by simply being in the way, there we go. What do you mean by being in the way Mom and Dad go to the school board meeting, involve yourself at the local level, take advantage of the school board meeting, get in, find out what the school this is all politics, find out what the school is providing, as far as curriculum, as far as the books they're reading, you'd be astonished to know, the books that are coming to our kids through the political vein, by the way, why? Because you know, where that comes from, comes from a teacher's union, you know, what the teachers union is in conjunction with political political activist committees, which are really lobbyists, which is politics, and no, let them provide the curriculum for our kids. Because guess what, we're on our Christian bubble. And we're just passing through here. And it's nonsense brother, and I'm telling you how it is because we need to be recharged, we need to come back to a place where I'm going, You know what, as for me and my house, I'm gonna be involved with culture, I'm not going to compromise truth, because it's offensive. I'm going to love people. But I'm not going to sit on the sidelines, and allow this to happen. So I will engage, I will look for other Christians who are in those arenas. I'll partner with them. And I'll try to be as redemptive as possible. And at the same time, leaving my hands off of it. So God can put his hands on it. That's what I'm supposed to do. There's a balance there, right? I do what I can. God does what I can't. So parents get involved at that level. Some of us should be running for local politics. We should be becoming local legislators who actually pass all these laws, local Assemblyman, get involved as a Christian man or woman in those arenas, and bring truth back. Make truth biblical again.
Ethan hoover:
Yeah, it's got hats with that.
Unknown:
What about young people, like young people that are single, that don't have any kids that are like 18 to 25 or 18 to 30? That don't have any kids? They're single, they're, but they're believers, and they want to make a difference? Can they still go to the school board meetings? You actually can't I think it's a public forum. But who knows with COVID the way they're kind of able to control who comes in, but I'm on a text message list with some young adults, various ranges of ages. But every now and then they'll they'll send through and the one person sends through an article to read guys consider this, we need to pray about it. So they're like rising up and moving through the next generation, they should care about what's happening in the world that they live in. And again, not trying to not trying to make earth heaven. Right. Right. Not trying to make not trying, I've said this in a sermon recently, the church's responsibility isn't to restore what's American, because traditionally, what was American seem to have been conservatism values that were wholesome. Right. But that's not the church's role. The church's role isn't to restore with American, the church's role is to always resort to what's Christian. That's how you should respond to the world you live in. So if you're 18 to 30, you're a young adult, you're in a very unique space. I'm saying you're the next generation. And the church of tomorrow will rise or fall based on whether or not you have a biblical worldview. Spend time studying scripture, look at the lens of the Bible, and then apply it to the world you live in. And I'm confident the Holy Spirit are so good, Ethan. He will guide and direct these young lives to where he wants them, some of them We're going to be lawyers, some of them are going to be judges, some of them are going to be politicians, teachers, teachers, how about we put the Christian teacher back in the public square, there we go. We may have lost the public square at this point. But I'm not going underground brother, that's not going to put me on the ground. I'm going to be in the pulpit. And I'm going to be firing up the people of God to be recharged because we will reach the unchurched and the D church, when the true church is recharged Say that five times fast. Can't do that. I'm running for politics. I am putting my hat in the game. I don't know what level senator, mayor, Mayor, Mayor, mayor, Mayor,
Ethan hoover:
I was like a nice ring to it.
Unknown:
I'm where God wants me right now, I do have an interest in that arena. Because that's where that's what happens. That's where impact can happen. But that doesn't negate the fact that I should be prayerful, and I should be fasting. And then I should trust and I said this to our church recently, too. I said, I called them to the face. And I said, Listen, we fast we pray, and we trust, God will move those in the right position, who have the prominent influence, to do His will. And I want his will. And at the same time, I want to be mindful that I am just passing through here. And again, there's that balance in tension that I have to find as a Christian. So what's this got to do with the false gospel? That's where all of this started X amount of episodes ago, a false gospel? Well, the political gospel is a false gospel, it's placing our hope in man, when the message is polarized, right, which it can be, it then becomes politicized to the true meaning of the word. And then faith that is politicized blurs our priorities, right. So I'm not supposed to put all of my loyalty and all of my trust in man. And when I do that, I'm actually tainting the gospel of Jesus Christ, the pure gospel. So I want the pure gospel, hey, here's a story for you spoke at a church not too long ago, it was an event. And, you know, I touched on all these things. In fact, I'm very careful when I do touch on things that are politicized to make sure that what I say I mean, and what I mean, I say, I actually memorize those portions of my messages whether people know that or not, somebody might not think that's true. They might like that news up there just flying off the hip. No, I'm not. And I made a certain point about the division that is in existence today, which has been politicized, right. So I'm not touching it as a Christian because it's politicized. So whatever the state says, I'm just going to do and there's there's an unhealthy submission to state. They say wear the mask, wear the mask, they say get the VAX, get the VAX. They say segregate, segregate church shut down church shutdown. And all these things. I'm gonna wait a second, where's my faith that in God, so I'm touching on all that and I'm going, we should always rally around the gospel. We should rally around Jesus Christ. This is what unites us, biblical truth. Let's come back to the center. This is the clarion call for the Christian to raise the banner of truth. And there's so many Bible verses that speak to that Psalms, Isaiah, let's raise the banner. It's not about the mask. It's not about the facts. It's about coming back to the church of Acts. That's what I said, just like that. And like Dr. Mann, pastors who were present in in the crowd, they were they were so turned off by it. And I noticed because I had a conversation with these people. And you wonder why that was too political. You know why? Because he wants he'd wear they wear masks like, they're, they're pro masks. I'm gone. Okay, that's fine. You just said it's not about that it doesn't like that's my point. Like always say yes or no. It's about truth. It's about coming back to the gospel. But for some reason, you are seeing it from No, we submit it all costs. And I'm going, No, we don't submit it all costs. We don't submit at all costs. That's why we're in the situation we're in because of that mentality. So my heart beats as yours does, bro, to the pure gospel, to wanting to get back to what is the pure gospel, that's what we're going to be not ending the season on. But our next episode is going to deal with what does the Bible say about the gospel? And then as the gospel pertains to all the previous mentioned, categories, how does the gospel illuminate or even correct, or course adjust all of the issues that we've mentioned so far? So it starts with us the gospel, touching us first. And then using the word of God to illuminate our world. I've often said I bring myself to the light of God's word that shines on me. And then I bring the light of God's word to the world just like that. That's the trajectory, do what I can, and then let God do what I can.
Ethan hoover:
Amen. Can't really say anything else about that. Oh, solid. Well, thank you for listening to this episode of recharged. Make sure to subscribe and follow the podcast too. have notifications on so that you are notified when we release that next episode. Make sure to share the podcast on Facebook or Instagram tag us and hashtag recharged. Submit your questions for a q&a episode happening at the end of the season by visiting recharge podcast.com And if you're wanting to learn more about us the podcast or would like to apply to sponsor the podcast you can also visit Free Church podcast.com That about wraps it up. We will see you guys next episode. God bless