Teachers Amanda Green, Madison St. Louis, and Heather Saft share their insights about how the MTSS process best serves students when quantitative and qualitative data highlight students’ assets and are used to plan for future intervention needs. Amanda, Heather, and Madison share what matters most to them as educators and how they collaborate as a team within their microschool community at Briarcliff Elementary in Kansas City, Missouri. The episode will inspire listeners to advocate for their students and reenvision their district’s MTSS framework for their learners.
Episode Mentions:
Connect and Learn with Madison:
Connect and Learn with Amanda:
Connect and Learn with Heather:
Connect and Learn with The Den at Briarcliff:
Connect and Learn with Briarcliff Bears:
#students #mtss #multitieredsystemofsupports #kansascityteachers #amandagreen #madisonstlouis #heathersaft #briarcliffbears #thedenatbriarcliff #teachersfollowteachers #responsetointervention #rti #teachersintouch #specialeducation #teachers #pbis #problemsolvingprocess #classroom #teacherlove #followateacher #innovativeschooltools #teachertribe #allin #readingspecialist #education
Get solutions from Schoolutions!
#solutionsfromschoolutions #schoolutionsinspires #schoolutionspodcast
Teachers Amanda Green, Madison St. Louis, and Heather Saft share their insights about how the MTSS process best serves students when quantitative and qualitative data highlight students’ assets and are used to plan for future intervention needs. Amanda, Heather, and Madison share what matters most to them as educators and how they collaborate as a team within their microschool community at Briarcliff Elementary in Kansas City, Missouri. The episode will inspire listeners to advocate for their students and reenvision their district’s MTSS framework for their learners.
Episode Mentions:
Connect and Learn with Madison:
Connect and Learn with Amanda:
Connect and Learn with Heather:
Connect and Learn with The Den at Briarcliff:
Connect and Learn with Briarcliff Bears:
#students #mtss #multitieredsystemofsupports #kansascityteachers #amandagreen #madisonstlouis #heathersaft #briarcliffbears #thedenatbriarcliff #teachersfollowteachers #responsetointervention #rti #teachersintouch #specialeducation #teachers #pbis #problemsolvingprocess #classroom #teacherlove #followateacher #innovativeschooltools #teachertribe #allin #readingspecialist #education
Get solutions from Schoolutions!
#solutionsfromschoolutions #schoolutionsinspires #schoolutionspodcast
[00:00:00] Olivia: Welcome to Schoolutions®, where listening will leave you inspired by solutions to issues you or others you know may be struggling with in the public education system today. I am Olivia Wahl, and I am honored to welcome my guests today, Amanda Green, Madison St. Louis, and Heather Saft. Let me tell you a little bit about Amanda, Madison, and Heather.
[00:00:26] Olivia: Amanda Green has been working in education for ten years. She's taught in two Kansas City metro area school districts and double majored in early and elementary education with a master's in curriculum instruction with technology. This is Amanda's third year as a microschool teacher for her current district.
[00:00:46] Olivia: Madison St. Louis has also ten years. She's taught in Kansas City metro area and Independence, Missouri. Like Amanda, this is her third year as a microschool teacher in her current district. Madison graduated college with her bachelor's in education and completed two master's degree programs focused on certification as a reading specialist and administration and leadership.
[00:01:12] Olivia: Heather Saft is an experienced elementary teacher with a strong belief in student-centered learning. Over the past fourteen years, she has dedicated herself to creating an educational environment where learning is both fun and exploratory. For the past five years, Heather has been crafting English Language Arts curriculum with a goal of providing engaging and effective materials to support student learning.
[00:01:40] Olivia: Thank you for taking the time over your spring break, no less to connect and have this conversation Amanda, Madison, and Heather. Welcome.
[00:01:52] Madison, Amanda & Heather: Thanks for having us.
[00:01:52] Olivia: I'm so excited to jump into this conversation. Um, before we name the issue that I sought you out because you are solutions finders. You're doing this hard work. I love to have guests name and an educator that's inspired them over the years. Madison, could you start us off, and then we'll jump to Amanda and then Heather?
[00:02:14] Madison: Yeah. Um, so the educator that inspired me was, um, Mrs. Eilers. She was my third-grade teacher, actually. Um, and that's actually the grade that I started teaching in. Um, just loved that grade and I think it brought me back to my old self. Um, and she's still a part of my life today, which is why she inspires me because she never truly let go of me as like her student, but like also she cared and loved about me, which is why I admire her so much, so…
[00:02:41] Olivia: Wonderful. Wonderful. Amanda, how about you?
[00:02:44] Amanda: Um, the person who inspired me is Miss Michael and she also works in our current district with us. She was paired with me when I first started as my first year of student teaching or teaching in general and she was my first inspiration to you know make learning more about the students than it is just the curriculum you teach and so I still seek her out on a kind of weekly basis, just to see what she's up to and get more inspiration.
[00:03:11] Olivia: Wonderful. Mentors are everything in this work. It's critical to have the people that we look up to and that stick with us and we can check in with. Heather, how about you?
[00:03:21] Heather: So, um, it's interesting. My third-grade teacher was also an inspiration for me to become a third-grade teacher. Um, his name was Mr. Hammond and he really showed me that learning was hands-on and like active learning and that I couldn't hide behind my chair or my desk and that he was going to see me all the way through. And, uh, it's interesting because I also still have a relationship with him as well. We, over the years, I babysat his child growing up and then we just kind of have kept touch because he was such a huge inspiration for me being a bilingual, um, student at the time and so it was really hard to kind of grasp the ideas that were coming as a third grader.
[00:04:05] Olivia: So here's the story. You all are doing incredible work when it comes to supporting students that are part of the MTSS framework and process, um, and you've really built this gorgeous collective that it's all hands on deck to support each learner in your microschool community. And here's the issue. And this is why I sought you out for the work you're doing so often when students need support, instructional support, emotional support, they get a label that is stuck to them. And when I say stuck, it is really hard to shed that label for years sometimes. And as well, when these meetings are happening for referrals, it's often that everyone that's on team student or team child is not at the table at the same time, so miscommunication can happen. Um, and you know, all the data possible research isn't shared sometimes that can advocate or be an advocate for the students.
[00:05:15] Olivia: So I am elated to have all of you share about your MTSS process and framework. Work as a team today. And, um, just how you advocate for every student within your microschool community with that said, let's start off by sharing what matters most to you as teachers, because you're, you're each phenomenal in your own right. Um, I'll circle back to you, Madison; what matters most to you as a teacher?
[00:05:43] Madison: Um, I think two things really. I mean, relationships, obviously, just because that's what inspired me to do what I do today. Um, I don't feel like you can truly get anywhere with a kid or help them grow, which is like the, the next best thing about being an educator is seeing like the growth, even like the small moments. Um, those are what matters most to me. So…
[00:06:04] Olivia: Yeah, yeah. Amanda, how about you?
[00:06:05] Amanda: I think what matters most is giving students an opportunity to have choice. Um, I think that is what kind of grounded Madison and I, and we originally started our microschool is we wanted students to feel like they were in charge of their learning more. Um, and I feel like by giving them choice, even the smallest of choice of the topic they choose versus the end product they choose. Um, that's kind of, I feel like what has guided most of the work that makes me want to come to school every day.
[00:06:30] Olivia: Amanda, you're reminding me of that saying choice is voice, right? When you have autonomy and you can choose how you want to show all that, you know, it shows that that person that's allowing for that choice values you as a human, as a person. So I love that.
[00:06:47] Heather: Heather, how about you? So I'm going to tackle on because I agree with both of those. Relationships and choice are very high on my priority list, but I feel like collaborative practices working as a team, and seeing that we can learn from a variety of different avenues to thrive and to use our whole body, not just that mind part, but thinking about how I can actively engage my body, but also my mind and my verbalizing and all those things that kind of connect that, um, engagement part, which is something that helps students build that self-efficacy.
[00:07:21] Olivia: It sure does. And we also all have a common thread that's connecting us and tying us together. Um, Sam Bennett, Samantha Bennett, and, uh, Heather, you just brought her Circles of Engagement to mind. Can't you each? I can picture that visual with the behavioral, the emotional circle and that cognitive circle as well. Um, so I will make sure to tuck that image into the show notes because that's something we all value and live and breathe. How do we engage every single learner within our communities? Um, we've dropped the term microschool a few times now, and I guarantee listeners are wondering what in the world is a microschool? So, um, and I was wondering that too, when we first got in touch. So, uh, Madison and Amanda, would you mind, um, Amanda, if you want to start off, can you share with listeners what a microschool is?
[00:08:19] Amanda: Yeah. So, um, about three years ago or four years ago at this point, um, our district, um, put out a request, anyone who wanted to kind of pilot this new program in our district that just kind of spoke to our love language of giving students choice and building relationships more as a grade level rather than just individual classes. Um, and so Madison and I decided that was something we would like to do and jumped on board with it. And so, um, we started our microschool built on like a foundation of, um, a mission with empowering students to kind of show off their unique characteristics, um, to let them explore the curriculum in a way that made sense to them, rather than it being just directed by teachers. We called ourselves kind of guides on the sides as we, um, kind of gave them the feeling of what our district does in the high school level, which is called Pathways, where they kind of choose what is most important to them and kind of learn in that direction. And really let our classroom feel like a learning lab rather than just a reading, writing, math, science, social studies kind of classroom. Um, and so we wanted just to kind of build them in that direction and kind of build them as individual kids rather than, you know, a product of just our curriculum in general.
[00:09:39] Olivia: It feels like it's living the dream. Um, and Amanda, I heard you say that you and Madison, both when the call to action came out from your district said, sign me up. Um, and I know you work really closely with each other. Madison, can you describe your relationship with Amanda and Heather as well? Will you speak to that?
[00:10:01] Madison: Yeah, for sure. So, um, Amanda and I, before microschools is even a thing, um, We started off as like two strangers. Um, we bonded really quickly though. Like I will say, um, I was just as a person, like it does take a lot for me to like, be able to open up and have like good professional conversations, but also personal as well. Um, so we developed on all levels really quickly. Um, we started out in our own two separate rooms, no connection, like we're planning together. Um, Doing the same exact things, had the same anchor charts going, same mentor texts, same everything. Um, the following year, we're like, what if we try to do like some co-teaching? Like, what if we teach together? Like, how, how can we be better? Because we're already doing the same thing. Why can't they hear it from two different perspectives? Um, so we started there, um, did the co-teaching and then microschool came out that around this time in that spring. I mean, we're like, yeah, let's do it. We're already doing part of that model anyway. We're connected. We collaborate. We want to, like, further this co-teaching model of, like, the kids being more in charge and us not as much like she said, guides on the side. Like, they truly are the explorers and they're doing the teaching themselves. And we're just there if they need us.
[00:11:22] Madison: Um, but it's truly - her strengths help my weaknesses and my strengths help her weaknesses. And I think that is the most important thing is that we both recognize what we're good at and what we're also not good at, and we're also willing to pick up that person. And so when Heather came in, it was like, we still had weaknesses between the two of us. Like, I mean, no two people are perfect, you know? Um, so Heather comes in and she's, just as great like she picks up where we just can't feel like we're 100 percent all the time. Um, So I truly think that just having a good team who's like willing to be so vulnerable like sometimes it's scary to teach in front of other people. Not a lot of teachers want to do that um, I think we are also comfortable with being uncomfortable that that's what that's the easiest part of our job, so…
[00:12:20] Olivia: Oh, that's gorgeous. That idea it just a couple of things to go back to - being comfortable with being uncomfortable. Here's the thing. Madison. That's exactly what we ask our students to do all of the time. And how amazing that the three of you are modeling that is parallel practice for the children. They see it. They they know, and they can trust in the process, which is a huge part of this work (trust the process) because they see you taking risks publicly and also lifting each other up and having each other's backs. Right? So Heather, what was it like to come into the fold? And please also at some point, share about the den because it's so cool.
[00:13:06] Heather: So as, um, as a person that loves to be vulnerable, I jumped in and it took time, um, as always does, but I felt like I learned right away that this was a collaborative effort, and that we could communicate and we could work through like I, there were things that I didn't quite understand and I had kind of had to work around those and once I finally established like my grounding points, I felt like I was able to kind of, uh, push through what I knew was, um, the mindset because I also was the second, I mean, this is the third year of doing it, so I kind of jumped in all the way. And it all aligned with my practices as an educator before I was collaboratively working with a team as well. And so jumping in doing this really helped kind of, um, solidify where I want to be and what I want to do. And I think that it really drove the student-centered mindset, which is what I really have thrived to see.
[00:14:07] Heather: I've seen so much growth and just that student-centered mindset developing targets and, and helping them work through those targets and not just teacher given. So I feel like that was a huge practice and our collaborative efforts with all students going into the den We have we have the den we have the parlor and we have the lab. And each student has each teacher has their student group however, we work together in a collective group for our Pathways time. Ehere we work within either; we all come together as a den group all sixty…what, sixty kids of us to come together. We do a lesson together. We talked through the target for the day. We give the opportunity to, um, collaborate with student-to-student in all different areas of the 4th grade team. And then we also kind of branch off into our, we call them A/B rooms where they have a specific, um, just a structure where they go into an area where they can go in the parlor or the den and they can work in sometimes triads. We have groups of three that we work together that; we have them kind of groups up accordingly in in different modalities. So it's not necessarily, um, in, it's kind of random choice, like we just kind of work through all the teachers that we have, and we randomly put them together. Um, we also have spent some time just, uh, grouping them in different places with like small groups and stuff like that. So a lot of collaborative practices, but we are all teaching at the same time and conferring together. And we know the students probably each and every one of them in a different way than we probably could ever know them if we weren't working with them collectively.
[00:15:56] Olivia: It's, it’s absolutely fascinating to me, and I know so many listeners are going to want to learn more about your microschool community. And so I will make sure to tuck links of how best to get in touch with each of you as well as a link to the Briarcliff site website as well. It's beautiful. I want to just then pause and say, because you are so fluid with gathering data around each of your children and sharing and communicating; here's the bigger piece: with MTSS, which is multi-tiered systems of supports; for those of you that don't know; there's a really specific framework that's expected to be followed. A process that's expected to be followed. And so, you know, what are the different roles and responsibilities that you all have when it comes to that framework? Um, Madison, maybe you could kick off that part of our conversation. And then, um, I thinking Madison, if you could describe that process and then, um, thinking of Heather talking about roles and responsibilities of the framework. And then maybe Amanda, you could tackle data 101, you know, how are you collecting, how are you sharing, um, across the different children at different times? Madison, let's talk process.
[00:17:24] Madison: Okay, so a process, um, within our district, we have a test that we have our kids take, um, we take one in the fall, we take one in the winter, we take one in the spring, um, because we do take the MAP Test. Um, that just allows us to see where they're going to be, hopefully, that reflects the Map Test, um, So they take the test, we look at the data, um, and really, we kind of wait and we have the people in our building, um, which consists of our principal, um, our intervention support, like our reading specialist, um, our ELL sits in on there, um, um, our school psych, um, and, they get together and they typically look at the data themselves that was only from this test. So it's just one test, it's one reading, one math. Um, if they fall below a certain percentile in either, there's also a second test that they then take. Um, one is like a reading comprehension type thing and then math is like the automaticity. Um, so again if they score a certain level like that definitely will flag them.
[00:18:32] Madison: Um, so they then meet and they kind of map out these projections of what they think these kids should have to do from there.
[00:18:40] Olivia: So wait, I want to pause there and ask a question. You all are not involved then in that initial meeting?
[00:18:47] Madison: No, which is yeah, which is why we, um, tried something a little different this year. So…
[00:18:53] Olivia: Oh, I'm so excited for everyone to learn about what you tried. Yeah. And that goes back to the idea that everyone needs to be around the table when it's team child, right? Including caregivers, because caregivers know their children really well too. Um, but what a missed opportunity to have you all not at the table out of the gate. And especially because you are collecting such data and you really, are knowing each child deeply, just like you know each other deeply. So that's, it's critical. Um, okay - process is out there in the world. Now let's talk roles and responsibilities. Heather, what does that look and feel like?
[00:19:33] Heather: So our roles and responsibilities are continue to monitor students through the system that we use. Um, and so some of the things that we have, uh, done this year is just to kind of navigate those roles in a way that can be, uh, teacher-driven and student-driven. So, using what we have taken from not only just the quantitative um, research that Madison was talking about, but also the qualitative. Something that we've noticed within the classroom environment, how they have navigated specific tasks, or how they have worked with collaboratively with another set of students, or one way or another, they've uh, communicated things to us in a different way. Um, we've used that as a way to kind of reset and to differentiate whether they do need the supports necessary based on that one test. So, we sat down together as a team and just kind of outlined which students we thought were, were thriving in the system that they had and needed to be kind of in a different system. Maybe in a smaller group with us versus another area. And we also thought about students that may need some other support based on what we're seeing in the classroom. So kind of not coining the student that was doing, um, what was on the test, but basically what we see inside the classrooms that connect with those that behavioral, cognitive, and emotional side that kind of helps us see what they need. Because I feel like that balance of quantitative and qualitative is what really is empowering for students to see, because then they can see that they're not always stuck in one place. They can have a variety of different learning opportunities.
[00:21:26] Olivia: Well said, well said. So, Amanda, then I need to know, how are you gathering data? Do you have a specific conferring system? Um, what are you looking for when you're conferring with students? And then how do you share that across the triad?
[00:21:44] Amanda: So we get data from, um, Anything and everything we use in the classroom. We have a shared Google, um, spreadsheet I'll call it that we house our life on. We are constantly pulling data from anything and everything. So we have all of our kids. We just number them 1 through 60. They're intermixed between our three classes. So it doesn't feel like we're looking at one class versus another class. Um, and we track anything from our, our Fastbridge is what we use for a lot of our MTSS stuff. Um, we also take, uh, Illuminate in the unit tests and that kind of thing. Um, we have exit tickets. We have, um, quizzes. We have anything that we have gathered any data on housed within this huge spreadsheet that has probably a million tabs on it. Just of every, the whole lives of our kids. Um, and then we've tried out a couple of different systems as far as conferring. We've used OneNote where we have a shared OneNote that we make comments back and forth to each other because we do pop in and out of kids, um, workspaces where, you know, Heather may be working with a student and then they may come ask me a question. So I try to capture their learning in that same kind of space. So if Heather goes back to them or if Madison jumps in, um, to help a student, like we can kind of see where their current learning is or what their current thinking, um, and so we kind of try to house our notes within that kind of system. We also just do a lot we talk and we are together 100 percent of our time at school. And so when our students leave the classroom, you're going to find us in one of our three rooms talking about something that just happened. Um, and so that way we can kind of be in the know of what's currently going on within our, our workspace, within our classrooms.
[00:23:27] Olivia: I get the feeling you like each other.
[00:23:30] Madison: A little bit, a little bit, just a little bit.
[00:23:33] Olivia: And so here's the thing, like, again, for students to see that idea of just collaboration coming to life, that we live and breathe this work. And, uh, right now, I think a lot of teachers are deciding whether they want to stay in teaching. Um, and it's not for a lack of love of children. It's for a myriad of reasons. Um, and some of it is the frustration with the system I'll say. Some of it is frustration with being asked to do; just teach programs, teach in a way that it doesn't vibe with what it matches your core belief system as an educator. And something that you had described to me as the idea of the Three-Student Act, um, and that it just struck me. It's so beautiful. Um, so Madison, I'm wondering if you could describe that.
[00:24:32] Madison: Yeah, so this was something that we actually learned from Sam Bennett. Um, just in one of our learning labs, um, had the opportunity to watch her probe another teacher to pull just three students. Um, and I think the key component of that three students was really that, like, before you even look at their work or do anything with it or talk numbers or data, you, you express who that child is. Like, what do they like? How do they act? What, like, what are things that make that child, that child, that are not necessarily, you know, like, like from a test or from an exit ticket. Um, so you, she starts off by having us, um, name these three kids and who they are. Um, so you really get to know them and then you, and then you look at their work, um, and you kind of see what they took away from that, um, target for the day that we create. Um, see where they're at, where they are kind of maybe they're above and beyond it, or maybe they didn't really get it at all, and they went a different route than what you suggested. Um, and then you sit there and you analyze, like using these three students, like, where do I go next? Like, what is going to help these three either continue to better that target or what target do I need next?
[00:25:53] Olivia: Yeah, yeah. That's a beautiful description of that. And then Heather, I continue to go back to something you mentioned actually with your inspiring educator, the idea that you felt seen. And it, and seen in a way that it's, you, you can't hide either. And so it's not just feeling seen and being valued; it's also a level of accountability. Like I've got you, you're going to do hard things and I'm here right alongside you to do those hard things. Something I've noticed about the way you all speak of children; I would be so happy to have my boys be part of your school community in the way it's always based on strengths. It's looking; it's that asset-based mindset. Um, and Heather, your, strength with being bilingual, you also look at each student's strengths, um, with their culture, I would say. What they can bring from their caregiver, from their families into the community as well. So Heather, would you mind just speaking to that idea of asset-based mindset and how that comes into play in your community?
[00:27:06] Heather: Absolutely. I think that a lot of times, um, diversity is, can be viewed differently. And I think that having the diversity that we have and also the mindset of that asset side helps kind of differentiate, uh, for each student. So, taking those Three Acts - taking those three students, seeing them where they are, taking what they can do, and navigating that in a positive mindset, seeing how can I positively share what I see is going well, and this is one place that we could kind of work in independently, or I could do it as a whole group because that also is one thing that we look at when we look at all of those different student acts. So thinking about that development, not only does it help with that relationship building, which is super powerful. It also helps kids understand that when we're sitting and we're communicating and we're looking at their work, like it's valued. It is something that we see something that is honorable and we should share with them all the positive things that are going on and these are the ways that we can continue to grow. So I think that asset mindset is what helps them with that, that, that like growth mindset as well. So…
[00:28:18] Olivia: I want to just name something you said that it strikes me at my core. Why would we ask students to do anything when it comes to cognitive engagement, what they're saying, what they're producing, what they're writing, if we are not going to use it to inform our next steps? And that is something you all have down is a strength. And the students need to see that. Let's think of ourselves as grownups.
[00:28:48] Olivia: If we feel like we are turning lesson plans in or doing, you know, like just become data collectors, but none of the data is being utilized to inform decisions. That is so frustrating. So that idea of parallel practice. Uh, so now let's just call it out every system, every framework could be better. There are always revisions that could be better. Right? Um, so I'm working with school districts where we're coming together before the end of the school year to say we have too many assessments that we are doing as a school district, and we need to just recalibrate and really look at what is informing our decision-making for students and how can we go from there?
[00:29:41] Olivia: So let's talk MTSS process. Um, Amanda, you know, what would you say it could be even revised to be better with the way that your community takes on MTSS? What would your hopes and dreams be?
[00:29:58] Amanda: I mean, I think it would start with us just being a part of the conversation. We're with our kids more than sometimes their families are. Um, at least that's how I feel with my own personal kids. Like I am with my kids at school, um, so many hours of the day and I know them better than a lot of the other people that sit around the table making these decisions and so having us as part of that conversation, I feel like is step number one in, um, getting kids what they need, um, and being able to talk about them not as just a number or a statistic, but truly as who they are and then what we know they personally need. And I feel like that's what we did, um, with our principal who's super supportive is we kind of challenged her with that. Like, let us be a part of it. Let us try it out.
[00:30:40] Olivia: Yeah. So, Madison, you, you did say like, we've tried something a little bit different. Um, what, what is it? Talk to us. What did you do?
[00:30:49] Madison: Well, I mean, we finished these tests and we like see these scores and we're kind of looking at some kids and we're like, oh, we just have some really great recommendations. But we already know that like, we're going to go to this meeting and we're going to show up and they're going to give us their opinion and we're going to say, okay, great. And walk away like it's always been. Um, this time we were like, no, like we do so much good work, day in and day out. Like let's sit and have the conversation, us three right now. Um, let's see what we truly believe. So we talked about each kid, like literally talked about their strengths, talked about their weaknesses, talked about where we thought that they would do the best that they could do to grow. Like if it's with us and a guided to group, like great, that is what they need. Then like, they will perform better for us than they will so-and-so. Um, and I think that is part of the problem sometimes is like we send these kids to, um, an interventionist and they don't necessarily have that relationship with them yet. So like the kids aren't willing to perform as well. So we tackled it down, narrowed everything down, um, kind of sent it to our principal and said, hey, we've already met about MTSS stuff. We know you guys meet today. Can you take this data sheet and share it with everyone else and kind of see what, what their thoughts are.Um, and she did.
[00:32:11] Olivia: And so what happened? Heather? What happened?
[00:32:15] Heather: So we had some, we had some changes. We didn't get everything we wanted, but we did get some voice. Our, our voices were heard. And I do believe that the, in, in future, we will be a little bit more of an activist in the, uh, work with our kids. Because I feel like when we all kind of sat back and reflected on the actions that were taken, we had some very good results. There was some listening going on and they did, um, were inspired to, to take the challenge of having us, um, at least teachers being present and having that voice to have, to be that advocate for those students because we are spending the majority of our time with them. So I feel like, um, there's some opening and I, um I feel like hope, it's hopeful that we will continue to grow in this area as well.
[00:33:09] Olivia: I think that I always consider, um, Cornelius Minor's words around being radically pro-kid and, uh, when I was in conversation with him around, um, his book, We Got This, I, the episode that, um, I had the gift of highlighting his work. It's called, We (still) Got This, um, because it's true. We still got this. And it's really important that we push forward and you as a triad, you as a collective, um, being brave and saying, look, we, we've got so much that we can say about each of these children far beyond a single assessment. Um, we can do better. We can do better. Um, so let's end our conversation hearing about student success stories. Let's end with hope and just hearing about the gorgeous work you all are doing. Um, so Madison and Amanda, you were going to highlight, um, a couple of students that you've teamed around, and then Heather, you're also going to highlight a student that you've had some success. So Amanda and Madison, you decide how you want to share about these, the beautiful kids.
[00:34:27] Madison: I mean, um, one of them has been at our school for, um, since she was in kindergarten, we had her brother. Um, but she came in as a Tier III kid. Um, she's been Tier III since she was in kindergarten. Um, the other girl, um, she was newer. Um, we recently got her on Tier III because of how, just how far behind she was lacking on some skills within reading and math. They're both, they were both Tier III math coming into us. Um, we, we worked with them as well as like their Tier III interventionists. I will say like, we're also the people that like, just because you go and get service outside of our classroom, you're going to come back in and you're still going to have to deal with us. Like, we're not; I'm not letting you slack off here. Like you're going to continue to be pushed. Um, Amanda, I'll let you continue.
[00:35:24] Amanda: And I just feel like as the years went on, like they, when they walked into us, we're like, hey, we got, we got some work to do. And so, you know, we've, we've challenged them, we've pushed them. Um, and when we went to our last meeting and, you know, we knew that they were still going to be slotted as Tier III, we kind of, we're like, I really don't think, or we didn't really think that that was the best fit anymore. They had grown so tremendously like throughout the year that we're like, I really think we should ease off. Like, let's pull them back a little bit. Let's see if they can perform better in the classroom, cause when they're pulled out for Tier III, they're missing so much. And they had both kind of had conversations with us about what they were missing. And, oh, they didn't want to go anymore. They'd rather be with us, you know, because of the relationship we built, but also because they didn't feel like they needed that anymore.
[00:36:08] Amanda: And so, um, they were just a couple of kids that we put as wanting to change their Tiered program with, um, within our last meeting. And, um, we were able to have those conversations. They asked us like, why not Tier III? The numbers support Tier III. And we're like, yeah, but the. The numbers support Tier III, but the child doesn't support Tier III anymore. And so, um, we were able to convince them based on what we know is best for them to be able to pull them back in Tier II. And at this point like I would say both of them don't even really need a Tier II support. Like they are thriving um, and it's been years of this system where they've just been put in Tier III because they don't perform well on tests. They don't understand what they're being asked, but they can do it with guidance. And so, um, and they're just two of the students or we could name so many students that I feel like this year have thrived in our environment, just feeling differently because it's not just sit and listen and regurgitate all the things that have been told to them over the years. They really are able to showcase what they know now. Um, and they're just two of the best examples we have.
[00:37:12] Olivia: Well, you peeled the label off though. You peeled the label off. You, you removed the label and you believed in them and then they were like, oh, wait, we've got this and that's exciting. Madison, could you explain; you got, you've, you've mentioned Tier II, Tier III, what are the different Tiers of support?
[00:37:33] Madison: Um, Tier III is more of that pullout service. So it's going to be with a different adult in our building, um, whether it be our reading specialist, um, in our building. Um, and then we also have a, another staff member who does the Their III math, um, is trained to pull out for. Tier III math as well. So everything for Tier III is completely pulled out. Um, it is completely irrelevant to anything we're doing, like skill-wise in fourth grade. So if we're teaching decimals, that's definitely not what they're working on in Tier III. Um, Tier II, um, is more of like a small group with one of us. Um, having that extra time to just sit down and work with them aside from like; they get the lesson and then they get to sit and work with us as well. Um, but it allows them to show us what they can do without us and then where they need that little bit of like support.
[00:38:26] Olivia: Yeah, yeah. Still within the classroom setting.
[00:38:28] Madison: Still. Yep. Not pulled out. They get to completely be with us…
[00:38:31] Olivia: In Tier I, but Tier I is that general support - like classroom. This is the standards-based instruction…
[00:38:40] Madison: What everybody gets…
[00:38:41] Olivia: What everyone gets. Um, and so I think it's important that people understand the different Tiers and the idea that Tier III is intended to be, uh, an extra, extra dose of support, and yet I pause because Tier III often for children feels like “othering” and they know they are missing out on what is happening within the community. And so it's this really fine line of providing those multi-tiered support systems and yet ensuring that children's emotional and behavioral engagement is valued, and their voices are valued, right? Heather, shed a light on your student’s success story.
[00:39:30] Heather: So we had a, um, uh, Spanish speaking, uh, newcomer, we call them, um, come in this year and she fortunately was in a placement, uh, where she could speak with me in Spanish. So at the beginning of our year, we spent a lot of time just kind of navigating a relationship to kind of build her awareness and kind of comfort inside the classrooms because we have such a different kind of mindset as a as a fourth-grade team. And so developing that with me was a starting point. But then I kind of pushed pretty quickly, I would say within a couple of weeks, we pushed pretty quickly to navigate ways to have St. Louis and Green really work together on when it's time for immersion and and language immersion I am out of the picture. I am just an innocent bystander where she is just going to go to St. Louis or Miss Green whoever that is.
[00:40:31] Heather: So we intentionally put together math groups, especially math groups at the beginning to have her have that immersion process, which is so important in language development. And so I feel like not only having that available to her, having three of us available to her has been super helpful. But she's been thriving. And recently she rarely speaks to me as much in Spanish. Like we have an English-English Language now, or unless it's completely hard for her to figure things out. And then I will speak to her in English, but we have that, like we have gone from full Spanish to almost completely English in, um, five months, six months. And so her development of English language has just thrived, but also mathematics has just thrived because she's been able to like, have so many different, uh, perspectives because having just one is so much different than three of us. So having that support has been awesome.
[00:41:31] Olivia: I want to end our conversation again, highlighting your collective, highlighting your collaboration, and noting what you do is not departmentalization; That you are all teaching all of the content areas, and yet what you ensure is that there's this gorgeous red thread that ties together all of your conversations as adults, all of the lesson work you are doing. And so students that are bilingual, students that are striving are able to transfer the learning. Whether it be from mathematics to ELA work, to-from social studies and science, there's that inquiry-based mindset that is just invaluable within your microschool and the way you all hold tightly to that as a core belief system.
[00:42:31] Olivia: So I celebrate you. I celebrate your love and work on behalf of children. And it's educators and teachers like you that are making our world a better place. And so it's a high honor to, to have you all as guests, um, and to have you take time out of your spring break again to have this conversation. It speaks volumes of your dedication. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you to each of you, Madison, Amanda, and Heather.
[00:42:58] Heather: Thank you.
[00:42:59] Madison & Amanda: Thank you.
[00:43:01] Olivia: Take good care. And I hope you continue to rest and relax the rest of this vacation. You've earned it. Um, so I, I can't wait for this episode to release and just to highlight you and your work. Schoolutions® is a podcast created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Special thanks to my guests, Amanda Green, Madison St. Louis, and Heather Saft. Also, a big thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music that's playing in the background. I would love for you to share the podcast far and wide. Leave a review, subscribe on YouTube, and follow us on TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, and Facebook @schoolutionspodcast. If you'd like to become a Schoolutions®sponsor or share episode ideas, leave me a SpeakPipe voice memo at my website, www.oliviawahl.com/podcast, or connect via email at @schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com. Please keep listening. Let's continue finding inspiration together.