[00:00:00] Olivia: Welcome to Schoolutions®, where listening will leave you inspired by solutions to issues you or others you know may be struggling with in the public education system today. I am Olivia Wahl, and I am happy to be here with my colleague and friend, Dr. Wendy Bunker. This is our last episode in a series around the New York State Literacy Briefs that were recently released. Uh, they are crafted by Dr. Nonie K. Lesaux and Katie Carr, M.Ed. This is part two of a conversation around Brief 7; It's 7/7. And the title of this Brief, again, read it, uh, Science of Reading: Leading for Literacy. And our previous episode, part one, focused on action steps one through four.
[00:00:47] Olivia: Uh, you can check that episode out at Season 3, Episode 34. Um, this episode we're honing in on leadership action number five. Um, and this action step reads as this: “Build systems for effective assessment instruction links to support educators and serve all learners.”
[00:01:08] Olivia: Um, so, Wendy, I know there are beautiful graphics that actually take up most of the page at the district level; assessment instruction links at the district level; assessment instruction links at the school level, and a whole other graphic for links at the classroom level. We're not going to go through every single box in the graphic, um, cause that seems redundant, but there were a couple of aspects that we thought, this would be good to have conversation around. Um, and there are similar pieces of the graphic that go across all three links, um, and levels. So, um, I had asked you if you'd be willing to speak to the idea of universal strategy and targeted strategy. Um, but maybe also we should start with reading the excerpt at the top. Um, that's a good way to go. Do you want to get, begin there?
[00:02:02] Wendy: Um, so of course, Livi read the title. Um, and then under that building systems of effective assessment instruction links, um, it, it reads: “With the assessment system in place, leadership teams are poised to build systems that facilitate differentiated instruction and interventions with the goal of ensuring all students can access rigorous, age-appropriate learning and teaching. Many of today's frameworks, including Response to Intervention, Multi-tiered Systems of Support and the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act reflect these design principles. Below, we outline the design of systems for assessment instruction links at three levels.”
[00:02:49] Wendy: And as Livi said, district, school, and classroom. And so, um, we did, you and I did talk about the, the, um, the two headers really on all three of these charts, which are the universal strategy and the targeted strategy and at both the district and the school level that's, um, under the universal strategy, we're examining aggregated data. So, any, um, assessment that's done. Um, within the district and a lot of times what we're talking about here is beginning of the year data from screening assessments. So, how many students, what percentage of readers in this, in this case are proficient and how many students, what percentage of students would be considered at risk or below proficient. And so, looking at that as a whole, we can start to make, um, preliminary decisions about where we might need to go. At the building level, we're again, looking at that aggregate data, um, still thinking about the proficiency levels and the, um, above grade levels, um, and, again, how are we going to, um, how are we going to, um, how are we interpreting those data?
[00:04:12] Wendy: And what does that mean at the building level? And then, of course, at the at the classroom level, um, that's very specific into groups of learners within a grade level and within a classroom. When we think about the targeted strategy in that case, both for district and school level, we're looking at the disaggregated data. So, by group, it could be racial group. It could be, um, students with disabilities, English Language Learners. Um, so any of those subgroups that we look at, um, at the state level, we can use at the district and the, um, the building level to help us be sure that we are, um, thinking about Social Emotional Learning, that we're thinking about the, um, Culturally Responsive and Sustaining Education. And then, um, at the classroom level, um, which students and which groups of students need more support. So, last time we, we talked about that pyramid where we have all students, some students and a few students. So where in that pyramid are our students falling within our classrooms, but also within our buildings?
[00:05:33] Olivia: Yes, that's a really lovely breakdown and I keep thinking of the idea; the very first sentence you read: “With the assessment system in place (fingers crossed) leadership teams are poised to build systems that facilitate differentiated instruction and interventions. And it goes on. But that idea of leadership teams and I know that, um, I've been working with schools - supporting school since 2006 and it the work is most sustainable. The work is most productive and in service of children if every layer of the system, every level of the school system, is involved and has a seat at the table. I'm advocating more and more for outside community for caregivers to also be at the table. But even with MTSS, um, I was recently having a conversation with a group of Kansas City teachers that they did not have a seat at the table during the MTSS meetings for their students and all of the decisions were being made based on one assessment tool.
[00:06:41] Olivia: One assessment tool! And so I think that this really calibrates, you know, who has seats at the table…whose voices are being uplifted in service of our children with that asset-based mindset. And I also think of the term parallel practice, often, because every layer of the system needs to live and experience these models and this way of thinking and studying data. Um, and the aggregate and disaggregated data as well. Um, I've mentioned to you, I really appreciate the questions. There is a little box at each level that is, has a tan background. And so at the district level, the question that we're left with to think about is: “What are the implications of these patterns and trends for our district-wide approach to literacy instruction?”
[00:07:37] Olivia: And that's such a great essential or bigger question to start with as a district and open up conversation. I see these as conversation starters, um, to sit with people, um, at every level. And then the question at the school level is: “Are these patterns and trends reflected in the school's tiered approach to literacy instruction?”
[00:08:02] Olivia: Which is what you were just speaking to with the pyramid. And then at the classroom level, you know, that question box or the offerings are a little more in-depth. The first question: “Does our school have data use and interpretation practices that support a tiered instructional approach?”
[00:08:21] Olivia: Here's my concern with that question - right now, there are still districts out there that do not even have common planning time in place. So I think this action step number five, we have to go back to that first section and say, or that first sentence, and remember that all of these pieces build upon each other. You can't talk about assessment at the different levels if your teachers don't even have time to come together and meet and pour over the data. Are there instructional coaches in the buildings to facilitate those data meetings and how we're using that to inform future instruction?
[00:09:02] Olivia: Um, so that was something that was like, ah, there's a lot to be done, Wendy. Can we discern patterns in both our classroom data and reader profiles across various skill areas? So there was this moment last week when we were together facilitating a learning lab and it was my favorite moment, and you know I'm a dork. But we were focusing on literacy practices in the AM learning lab and then the PM learning lab mathematical practices and there was a moment when I was in during the class and visitation, and it was the literacy-based, but I started in my mind connecting all of the literacy work that the kids were doing in kindergarten with the mathematical practices we had been studying, and I sat there and thought. What a lovely world it would be if our kindergartners were hearing when we're asking them to use precise language and nonfiction work, perhaps that we're also saying, you know what, as mathematicians, we also have to be so precise in our thinking.
[00:10:06] Olivia: And so we're steeping them in this terminology and what we need them to do as learners but we're breaking down those silos, and I think that's such a lovely way to think of this work as teams and how we are creating this universal understanding of the work. Um, and then there are two questions for the classroom level: “Do we regularly ask what percentage of the class has achieved grade-level proficiency and foundational word reading and language plus comprehension?
What percentage of the class is still working towards this proficiency level? And how can we meet the needs of this group?”
[00:10:50] Olivia: So that goes back to that most, some, one or few and how are we tailoring our instruction? I don't know if you share the same concerns with the many school districts that are acquiring scripted programs, uh, right now, but, um, how do you see using this idea of patterns and data-informed instruction alongside some of the scripted programs that are being offered?
[00:11:16] Wendy: I think it’s um, the, my first answer to that question is two words, progress monitoring. So, whether you're using, no matter what you're using, um, students at all levels should be progress monitored. Obviously, the students who are experiencing the greatest difficulty with, let's say, foundational reading skills, because that's sort of the focus of this, um, they need to be progress monitored most frequently, and then the, the students who are at some risk, a little bit less frequently, and the students who are proficient or above proficient, um, still need to be kept, uh, just monitored. So a little bit of progress monitoring, um, just to make sure that they're continuing to make gains. Because obviously we want all students to continue to achieve. Um, So, in a nutshell, progress monitoring for any program. And I want to just jump back for one moment to when you were talking about the teams and how we build teams.
[00:12:26] Wendy: And as you were talking, I thought of thinking about the why. Why are we building a team? And then what is our intention regarding students? Because when I think when we think about those questions, we're more likely to build a broad team that addresses all levels across a district and bring in, um, uh, participants in the team that we might otherwise say, well, we'll get to them later, for example, teachers.
[00:13:08] Olivia: Yeah, that's really, that's so interesting. And I also think of the kids that start in kindergarten. I'm editing an episode today that's coming out soon. And the teachers were saying, you know, they, these, the two children that they, um, speak to as success stories were put into Tier III intervention and kindergarten, and then year after year after year, they just stayed trapped in that Tier because of the one test that they were using as a progress monitoring, um, data point. And the teachers finally spoke up and said but these children are so much more than this data that we're seeing and from one assessment. And the kids had actually voiced they hate being pulled out of the class and they believed they could do better I mean, at this point, the children are in fourth grade, but they had been stuck in that tier three because of the assessment.
[00:14:07] Olivia: So I would also say that it's so important that we listen to children. Why are we not including children at the table so they can also advocate for themselves? And maybe not, maybe not at the data meetings, maybe like you would have to be really thoughtful about it. But we have studied, um, the idea of student-led conferences. So I think that could be a way of bringing student voices in and the idea of using portfolio-based assessment as a tool instead of everything being this broad, um, aggregated assessment tool that is a measure for the district. I think our students are so much more than a test score. And, um, yeah. That just to me is important to consider as well.
[00:14:59] Wendy: Certainly, um, I think again, it goes back to purpose. If we're, if, last time we talked, we talked about the constrained and unconstrained skills. So, I'm, in my mind, this focuses so much on the constrained skills, where we know what mastery looks like. So, in, when we're talking about that sort of thing, um, reliance on data, both at the, like the, um, the test-level data, but also what our student daily performance is looking like. So, um, that the anecdotal notes that you might take that gives us such a great picture. Um, that, sometimes I think that alone brings the student, even though the student's not present, brings the student into that conversation. So, um, it that I, to me that's the, it, it is just looking at data, but it gives us a picture that helps us move, um, the students forward so that they're not constantly in.that RtI world.
[00:16:13] Olivia: Yeah, the most important thing that I adore with our work with teachers and the coaching element of planning. It's really looking at and seeking out patterns. And we've heard that over this action step over and over and over. So how are we using all of the information we have to really observe patterns, whether it be in student work samples, all the way to the bigger data, um, pieces that we have and to say, you know, what are the implications for moving forward? And how often are we going to meet as a team? Like the protocols have to be in place that are so crystal clear that the meetings aren't going to get bumped for something else like this is when we're talking about systemic structures that are sustainable, it's because they're valued and that time is sacred. And so something you always remind me of is that idea of purpose. We have to know the why behind this work. Um, and that to me, that all of these Briefs, the, one of the biggest purposes is to calibrate the why. Why do we need to have our focus so strongly be around comprehensive literacy instruction around the Science of Reading practices so that then we can really serve our students the very best ways possible? Because this is all about kids, the children and meeting their needs and helping them thrive. Um, so this has been a gift to have these conversations with you and, um, I, I just appreciate your insight into this work. So, thank you.
[00:18:00] Wendy: Youbet. I enjoy them too.
[00:18:03] Olivia: I know, uh, we are going to wrap our conversations this season with a reflection episode just around our coaching work in general. Um, because we've been in a coaching project journey for about three years now together. And, um, it's been amazing how we've gotten smarter together through collective efficacy and trust and vulnerability. So I can't wait to just, um, reflect with you about that. And a huge thank you to Katie Carr, M.Ed. and Dr. Nonie K. Lesaux, for crafting these thoughtful, um, provoking Briefs that offer a lot of, um, creativity and expression for teachers to still hold on to the art of teaching. So thank you as always, my friend.
[00:18:49] Wendy: Thank you. See you soon.
[00:18:51] Olivia: Take care. See you soon. Schoolutions® is a podcast created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Special thanks to my friend and colleague, Dr. Wendy Bunker. Also, a big thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music that's playing in the background. I would love for you to share the podcast far and wide. Leave a review, subscribe on YouTube, and follow us on TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, and Facebook @schoolutionspodcast. If you'd like to become a Schoolutions sponsor or share episode ideas, leave me a SpeakPipe voice memo at my website, www.oliviawahl.com/podcast, or connect via email at @schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com. Thank you for joining the conversation. Please keep listening, let’s continue finding inspiration together.