[00:00:00] Olivia: Welcome to Schoolutions®, where listening will leave you inspired by solutions to issues you or others you know may be struggling with in the public education system today. I am Olivia Wahl, and I am here with my friend and colleague, Dr. Wendy Bunker, and we decided to wrap our What We Know Now… series for this year. We wanted to have a reflective episode just around our journey as coaches this school year, and our collaboration and what matters most to us. So, um, Wendy, I'm thrilled to have this quick reflection episode. And I know each of us has teased out a few things that are lingering still with us and we're excited to talk and think about more, um, going into next school year. So, um, what's something that is, um, what matters most to you right now as a coach?
[00:00:55] Wendy: First off, this isn't what matters most to me, but it's hard to believe that we're already at the end of May. It's been, uh, it has been quite a journey, um, both in districts and, uh, having these conversations. So, um, it's been great. Um, I think for me, um, as a coach, the most important thing is always to establish trust. And, um, I think teachers in general, prioritize and value the relationships that they build with their colleagues and with their students. And, um, so they know how important that is. And if we establish that trust, um, you know, and, and build some sort of a personal interaction relationship with teachers, um, it just lays the groundwork for honest and open conversations. And I think that's the most important thing to have those honest and open conversations.
[00:01:59] Olivia: I think that's something I value tremendously in our friendship, um, as well as, you know, it has been a journey. I dragged you into this podcasting world and now we're twinning with our little headphones. I just, I love it so much. And you've been game for this adventure. Um, and I think something to go along with that essence of trust is knowing your why, um, but also being able to communicate that. I mean, I have fallen flat on my face with communication at times. And it's so important that when you mess up and you are not clear to just have a go, own it and then try again. Um, and so. I think so much of this work is being articulate and crystal clear on why we're doing what we're doing when we're doing it; why that matters, and, um, just that clarity around, um, what's best for kids. Because as hard as the instructional coaching work is, it's I think if we can ground ourself in this all goes back to kids, um, then that can be kind of a calibration point for us in this work. Um, I don't know. I also think about something that was huge for me this year. It was to do a deep dive into the different models of coaching and, you know, study Elena Aguilar's work alongside Jim Knight's work alongside Diane Sweeney and Leanna Harris's work,
[00:03:29] Olivia: Um, just to really understand, every teacher is different, just like the students in their classes are different. And every teacher may need a different model or different approach to coaching, but it's critical that we understand the nuances of their approaches and that teachers can ask and understand how for; how they want to be coached and supported in this work. I don't know what you think about that.
[00:03:59] Wendy: Well, as you know, we have different um, perspectives towards coaching. Um, my, my training is much more, um, that the, the person with whom I'm speaking knows all the answers because it's about them, not about me. Um, so the, the, uh, choice of how I want to be coached is, is, um, somewhat unfamiliar territory. Let's put it that way. So I have, I have had conversations and something that I'm, um, exploring.
[00:04:35] Olivia: Yeah. Yeah. And I think we'll continue. It's just been profound to have that, um, deep dive with teachers and coaches as well. And so as we're getting smarter about this work, um, I think another nuance for me that is critical is the idea of parallel practice, that I always dream about a ground-up initiative, and yet often coaching work when it's established in a school district feels top-down. So it's, I asked myself, you know, how can we meet in the middle? So that teachers are not being asked to participate in coaching or being coached without everyone in the system really having a deep understanding of their vision as a district and what instructional coaching means for their particular culture.
[00:05:25] Olivia: Because as we know, every school district has its own culture. And I appreciate how you just said, you know, it's not about us. It's about really deeply getting to know the teachers were coaching, the coaches we’re coaching, and the nuances of the district so we can best serve and support with that work.
[00:05:43] Wendy: I think that's the, the important thing with building that trust with the teachers, though, because, as you said, oftentimes, or at least sometimes, it is a top-down initiative, um, for instructional coaching to be put in place and when, when we can sit down and have conversations with teachers and start to build that trust, um, no matter how it's presented or initially rolled out, I think it still works. Just because there is that, you know, there's that, that, um, opportunity to have conversations to listen, um, and to, you know, to, to learn together. And I think that's, um, I don't think I know that's one of the other key facets for me is that listening with open ears and an open mind and that goes back to it not being about me. Um, and it, it is about, as you said, the students, but it's also about the teachers and what, what the teachers need, um, what they're seeking and, um, what they want to know more about.
[00:06:57] Olivia: Yeah, and I, I would say too, something that I know we both believe is, and you've already mentioned it, that idea of relationships, but I would say too, a huge part is, really getting to know each teacher that you're supporting as well as each coach deeply, if it's possible, you know, what do they really care about? Maybe outside of teaching. Um, and that's how I've really gotten to become close with teachers, um, as well as coaches that I'm supporting because we, we have to know what we really care about. Um, and I hope people know what I really care about because then when things get hard, because boy, does this work get hard. And when the conversations get uncomfortable or hard or difficult, and we're pushing back on each other, if we can remember that we're human and we're all wanting to do what's right by children, then, and we also have, we love the same things, or we love different things. I think that's where we can say, okay, yeah, this is where we are. And how are we going to move forward, um, to best support this work in this endeavor?
[00:08:08] Olivia: Um, I'm really excited around moving into next school year and the thought of getting to continue our collaboration, um, in at least one school district and our coaching conversations. So I just, Wendy, I'm so grateful for you always. Um, I'm grateful for the series that we've created and I'm excited to see where it goes, you know, and I know we unpacked the New York State Literacy Briefs. I'm hoping people go back and check those out over the summer if they haven't already, because. Even though they were crafted for New York State, um, by Dr. Nonie K. Lesaux and Katie C. Carr, M.Ed. I think the work in the Briefs and the conversation possibilities are endless, um, worldwide, not just nationwide. So….
[00:08:57] Wendy: Absolutely
[00:08:58] Olivia: Thank you, friend.
[00:08:59] Wendy: You bet! It's been fun.
[00:09:00] Olivia: It has and I look forward to our continued journey.
[00:09:04] Wendy: Me too. And it, and just to add one note to the coaching, it's always great to have someone else who is doing this work to, to talk to, to bounce ideas off of. Um, it's not about, it's not about me. It's not about, um, my agenda ever. It's always about the school district's needs and the teacher's needs primarily, but it's still nice to have somebody else to talk to.
[00:09:32] Olivia: Yeah, well, you are a thought partner for me forever and always. Take care.
[00:09:37] Wendy: You too.
[00:09:37] Olivia: Take care, my friend, bye.
[00:09:39] Wendy: Bye-bye.
[00:09:41] Olivia: Take care, my friend. Schoolutions® is a podcast created, produced, and edited by me, Olivia Wahl. Special thanks to my friend and colleague, Dr. Wendy Bunker. Also, a big thank you to my older son, Benjamin, who created the music that's playing in the background. I would love for you to share the podcast far and wide. Leave a review, subscribe on YouTube, and follow us on TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, Threads, and Facebook @schoolutionspodcast. If you'd like to become a Schoolutions sponsor or share episode ideas, leave me a SpeakPipe voice memo at my website, www.oliviawahl.com/podcast, or connect via email at @schoolutionspodcast@gmail.com. Thank you for joining the conversation. Please keep listening, and let’s continue finding inspiration together.