Denis [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode.

Eldar [00:00:01]:
Yeah, he had, like, a meltdown. He started throwing stuff in the office, like, kicking walls and shit. And like, no way.

Mike [00:00:07]:
The shit that was said yesterday, I've never heard this. And I was shocked to hear it. That's why for me it was like, yo, wait, this is crazy.

Eldar [00:00:13]:
What are the six year year, like. Like examples like that that you have in your life that you've done like, for six years or more. They'll learn the lesson afterwards and then you found a happy medium.

Denis [00:00:23]:
What are you trying to get? I can. I can name some. But what are you trying to invalidate the.

Eldar [00:00:27]:
The. No, I'm just trying to find out the process of your learning.

Denis [00:00:30]:
It sounds like you're just shitting on the process of life.

Toliy [00:00:33]:
It looks like the way that you're talking about it.

Denis [00:00:35]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:00:35]:
Is I think that you're. You're undermining your, like, abilities to like, progress in life.

Denis [00:00:41]:
I'm looking at it as like, yo, I have the. I have the potential to have the discipline to do whatever I need to do and accomplish whatever I want by. By applying some structure and discipline to it.

Toliy [00:00:52]:
No, no, I know.

Denis [00:00:53]:
Therefore, I like limitless. We're living in this world. We're gonna be having material pursuits. So we might as well. If we're still going to be doing things right that are not like, perfectly y enlightened journey, we might as well find the balance to fight to. To create systems, to consumably do it without losing our minds is all I'm saying.

Toliy [00:01:10]:
Like, he would like to participate in a conversation with you, but you make it very difficult to have that everything.

Eldar [00:01:15]:
Okay, guys, what are we talking about here? And why was this brought out in the first place? Because I think your example this week at least was very good example.

Toliy [00:01:38]:
Yeah, I guess, like, if you're trying to like. Yeah, I guess when you're making realizations or you're like, thinking about things, I think there could come a certain point in that process where you get like a really down. Down, like on yourself, you know, and you feel a certain type of way. So I think that, like, that's a part of it. Or if you're just like, going through life me what's called maybe, like, not realizing what you're doing or what's happening youg can kind of go past the point where maybe. Maybe you like, steer away from like, your base or like, your core, you know? And at that point it's really difficult to think, like, logically or like. Or do like, or. Or.

Toliy [00:02:28]:
Yeah. Or like, kind of have hope or like, I'm not sure if have hope is the word, but like. Yeah. Like think logically or try to like, be strong or try to solve problems or try. Try to like, help yourself or whatever. Right. So am I going down the right path?

Eldar [00:02:43]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still think it's a little difficult, I guess.

Mike [00:02:46]:
You know, the thing is, I think it's difficult to put it into words because what he just said, I was listening. He said to steer yourself. I don't think you're actually steering yourself. I think the car drives itself here and then only like a few. Like after. At some point you realize that you went off a cliff. So that's why I think it's hard to explain what actually happens because it's not a voluntary thing that you steer yourself off the.

Toliy [00:03:10]:
So you're saying Elon Musk was not the first one to make full self driving?

Mike [00:03:14]:
Yes, yes.

Toliy [00:03:15]:
That was invented far.

Eldar [00:03:17]:
Way before.

Toliy [00:03:18]:
Way before.

Mike [00:03:18]:
Yeah. I think that's a big factor that we, we. A lot of it is. Happens subconsciously. And then I guess you feel like. Because you're surprised that you're where you are. You. You didn't.

Mike [00:03:31]:
It's not like you got there intentionally.

Toliy [00:03:33]:
Yeah, but is that. But, but like what we're saying, like, like what you're saying yourself those three times. I guess, like the assumption here in this statement is that that's actually not you because you don't agree with that.

Eldar [00:03:47]:
Okay, so this is. Yeah, let's. Let's break down the, the question. How to protect yourself from yourself.

Toliy [00:03:54]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:03:55]:
When you're not yourself. So the first self. Right. That we're talking about is related to the third self that we're talking about here. Correct?

Toliy [00:04:02]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:04:03]:
How to protect yourself from yourself when you're not yourself.

Toliy [00:04:06]:
So the third and first self is one person.

Eldar [00:04:08]:
Is one person.

Toliy [00:04:10]:
The middle one is the.

Eldar [00:04:11]:
Yeah. Is the. Let's just say the culprit.

Toliy [00:04:13]:
The culprit.

Eldar [00:04:14]:
The culprit or whatever. Right. Or so we think.

Mike [00:04:16]:
Right.

Eldar [00:04:17]:
In this, in this case.

Mike [00:04:18]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:04:18]:
You know what I mean? Because nonetheless, it's still yourself. Correct. Stop it. Nonetheless, the second self that we're talking about here. Right. How to protect yourself from yourself, it's still you. It's still part of you. You somehow, you know, like you said, you had a, you know, had a bad day, had a bad mood or whatever it is you are.

Eldar [00:04:39]:
That's still part of you. You still don't know how to deal with that, how to handle that. However, that particular self that is now down. Right. Can potentially disrupt the self that you want to be.

Toliy [00:04:54]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:04:55]:
Or you've been.

Toliy [00:04:56]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:04:56]:
Before. All right, so that's what we're talking about. So the assumption here, right in the question itself is like, how do you protect yourself? Meaning that you've embodied yourself. I mean, you've embodied yourself with tools, knowledge and identity in such a way where you're comfortable with which you're more so happy with. Right. But then all of a sudden you get to a place, like you said, blindly, and now you're like, wait a second, why am I here? Who's this new self that got me here?

Mike [00:05:28]:
See that? Then I would say maybe there's a fourth self or extra self where it. With the first and the third self is not actual self. It's a combination of two. It's a. It's like in the middle between who?

Denis [00:05:39]:
You.

Mike [00:05:40]:
The. The good? Or like, not the good and the bad, but like, it's a combination.

Toliy [00:05:46]:
So are we saying that it's not yourself if you disagree with what's going on?

Mike [00:05:52]:
So, yeah, so I was saying is I think you're in a transition phase where you realize that you're not yourself, but it's like you're not.

Toliy [00:05:59]:
But why are you saying that to begin with? Like, how are you categorizing that this is not you? Like, because you're in one moment, you're.

Mike [00:06:09]:
Experiencing two different kind of things, states of mind. You have the emotional unreasonable and you have the reasonable and rational version. So it's like a hybrid between the two. But you're not one or the other. You're trying, like you're in a transition phase. You don't know how to get out of that. Like, what you felt yesterday. You weren't completely, like, fried.

Eldar [00:06:31]:
Where you were like, well, he was completely fried.

Mike [00:06:34]:
He was. But he was still able to reason with help.

Eldar [00:06:36]:
With help. Yeah.

Mike [00:06:37]:
You know what I'm saying? So I think that's the. That's like a transitionary kind of self, you know? So I don't know. It's hard to explain, but I think it's transitionary between the two versions where the rational mind and the unrighteous, irrational mind look at. And it's like a hard place to come out of, I would say.

Eldar [00:07:00]:
Yeah, yeah.

Mike [00:07:01]:
You know, I mean, with your example.

Eldar [00:07:03]:
You should be able to kind of distinguish the two. So bring your example up.

Toliy [00:07:08]:
But I'm not sure how to, like, what to say exactly.

Denis [00:07:13]:
I want to know.

Eldar [00:07:16]:
Yeah, no, I think your example is it defines who's which self we're talking about. And when I think I'm pretty clear as to what's going on. Right. There's a totally who's reasonable.

Toliy [00:07:28]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:07:28]:
Right. Then totally gets into a place where he's being unreasonable and being hurtful to himself in the moment. Right. And he's wrestling. Right. With the other self who's show showing glimpse a little bit of reason Right. In that moment, you know. But the question is how do you prevent that? Right? Yeah.

Eldar [00:07:47]:
From happening? I'm pretty clear on that. Like you're not clear about it?

Toliy [00:07:53]:
Well, like, can you just say it then?

Eldar [00:07:56]:
Well, I am seeing it. You know, yesterday you displayed the second self, Right. How do you protect yourself from yourself that is also part of you, that's living inside of you. Maybe not on a daily basis and all the time and it always comes out, but it's part of you. Right. Yesterday it happened to take over the usual self, the one that's more reasonable, the one that's more stoic, the one that's more calm, those ones more collected. Right. And it chose to kind of run.

Eldar [00:08:31]:
Run the show for the moment being right. Until the other self, you know, reason through the whole process said, you know what, calm the down. Like it's not that serious. You know what I mean? Like, let's break everything down properly so you can then function and be and be that what you want.

Toliy [00:08:48]:
But I also know that like that. That self that you're talking about, which one?

Eldar [00:08:52]:
The first or the second?

Toliy [00:08:53]:
The. The better self.

Eldar [00:08:55]:
Okay, Right.

Toliy [00:08:56]:
I also know that like being overwhelmed with like particular thoughts or having particular discussions. Right. Or stuff like that. I know that they could bring out that unreasonable bad self and that can ham. Hock you. So I think that like, there needs to be a level of maintenance to preserve that self.

Eldar [00:09:22]:
That's interesting. That's interesting.

Toliy [00:09:26]:
Yeah. Because like those bad thoughts or those unreasonable thoughts, they're very like exhausting. Right?

Eldar [00:09:36]:
But nonetheless they're you.

Toliy [00:09:38]:
Yeah, but they are still like nonetheless like exhausting.

Eldar [00:09:42]:
Right.

Toliy [00:09:43]:
So because they're exhausting, it's difficult to. Because like when you're in that state, I think it takes effort and work to be. To be logical.

Eldar [00:09:54]:
No, 100%, I agree with that. I agree with that. 100%.

Toliy [00:09:57]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:09:59]:
Are you getting a clear picture, Michael, of the whole scenario? No.

Mike [00:10:03]:
I mean, I understand, I understand.

Eldar [00:10:06]:
The situation was yesterday's kind of like volcano, let's call it. Of all the things, internal things, subconscious things, deep fears and doubts and stuff like that makes you like a. A big Part of yourself is my question. If it has that ability to take over on that type of fashion, if.

Mike [00:10:28]:
You still, those things can, I guess, still attack you.

Eldar [00:10:31]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:10:32]:
Then they still a part of you, right?

Eldar [00:10:34]:
Well, yeah. My question is, are they a big part of you? Then if they're able to hijack the system. Right. And override for the moment being logic and reason.

Mike [00:10:50]:
See, the thing is.

Eldar [00:10:52]:
And the question is, how do you protect yourself?

Mike [00:10:54]:
See, I think they can, but I also think it like yesterday was the volcano erupted, but it takes time for the volcano to build up, you know.

Eldar [00:11:04]:
But then you're saying that that is actually you also you. That's you.

Mike [00:11:11]:
It is. Everything that's happening is. It's 100 you, you know, it lives. It has the thing, it has some.

Eldar [00:11:19]:
Kind of real estate inside your mind that sooner or later will come out and take over for, you know, a day, a week.

Mike [00:11:26]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:11:27]:
A month, a year. Yeah, I, I, up until you find clarity and turn it down.

Toliy [00:11:32]:
Yeah. I also feel that, like, I grew up very anxiety, like, filled right here. Right. And like, I mean, it still is by what was even a bigger part of my life before, but it still is huge. More than a decade.

Eldar [00:11:51]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:11:52]:
Right. And again, it was such like a, again a reality. Like it's more or less a very minor thing, but to me, it would ruin my whole days. It would like, like that said, as soon as I experience that. So like, like every, everything is over. Like, like I cannot, cannot focus on anything. I cannot do anything. I cannot, like, like, I just cannot move on.

Mike [00:12:11]:
Like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure if I'm okay with just like saying left, like chalking it up to what happened yesterday. Just saying like all this anxiety because then my thing is like, well, then it should happen once a week or once a month. No, this is not, I don't, I, this is the first time. Well, no, I've seen this.

Eldar [00:12:29]:
The thing is, there's two things that's happening here. There's an active or once who wants to be active extinguisher.

Mike [00:12:37]:
Right.

Eldar [00:12:37]:
Fireman there of anxiety.

Mike [00:12:39]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:12:39]:
And there's another guy with just a gas mascot who's just trying to walk around and.

Mike [00:12:45]:
Right.

Toliy [00:12:45]:
Has to adapt new technologies, just live in that, that, that zone.

Mike [00:12:50]:
Yeah, yeah, but I see, like, yeah, we say that then if the gas mask guy and the fire extinguisher guy both have been existing, then you have to tell me what huge event in your life happened that now the gas mask guy is no longer efficient or the fire Guy is no longer efficient. Right.

Toliy [00:13:08]:
What do you mean by that? Like, why are they no longer efficient?

Mike [00:13:12]:
If I known you for past 10 years and this is the first time I'm hearing about this thing, for example, or I haven't heard about this thing in a long time. I don't know, maybe you can remind me. Last time I. I don't remember witnessing a situation like this in a while. It's been a while.

Denis [00:13:26]:
Myself and the viewers, I've heard like a bunch of cliffhangers already, like five times. We would like to know what. What happened. What are you referring to? And we're left out in the dark here.

Mike [00:13:36]:
Yeah, he's like a personal thing. No, I mean, not for me.

Denis [00:13:40]:
Was you guys mentioning something like nobody knows what you're talking about, you know?

Eldar [00:13:44]:
Yeah. He had a meltdown. Oh. He started throwing stuff in the office, like kicking walls and. And like.

Denis [00:13:52]:
No way.

Eldar [00:13:53]:
I mean, you should have seen the.

Denis [00:13:55]:
Out of here.

Mike [00:13:56]:
He's with me.

Denis [00:13:57]:
No, I've never seen you do something. What do you do?

Eldar [00:13:59]:
What?

Toliy [00:13:59]:
Well, Mike just said he never seen it.

Eldar [00:14:00]:
I've never seen it like that.

Mike [00:14:02]:
Yeah, no, I mean, I'm sure. I'm sure.

Toliy [00:14:05]:
I mean, I just had a crazy. Just like.

Mike [00:14:08]:
Yeah, I've never. Yeah, I never. I never seen that.

Eldar [00:14:12]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:14:12]:
That extreme of what the behavior was yesterday.

Toliy [00:14:15]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:14:15]:
And the things that were said.

Eldar [00:14:16]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:14:17]:
There's an identity I've never seen of Tolies. So my thing is like, if you're living your life and you're going along the path. Yeah, right.

Toliy [00:14:26]:
But you already.

Eldar [00:14:27]:
About what?

Toliy [00:14:28]:
The way that he feels about it.

Eldar [00:14:30]:
No, I've seen it a hundred times.

Toliy [00:14:31]:
That's what I'm saying. I don't feel that way either.

Mike [00:14:33]:
Yeah, but that's because I've never seen it.

Eldar [00:14:35]:
Shared it with me many times. That's why I don't. That's the degree why I don't even take it seriously anymore. Yeah, because you've shared it so many times. We've been talking about the same thing over and over and over again and nothing gets done.

Denis [00:14:46]:
What triggered this?

Mike [00:14:47]:
See, that's why for me, I think, like, yo.

Eldar [00:14:50]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:14:50]:
If you're living your life and you're driving 50 miles on the highway for fucking five years straight.

Eldar [00:14:54]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:14:56]:
Unless a fucking boulder falls off the highway. Why are you going off the course if you already have a girl relationship with the firefighter and the gas mask guy?

Eldar [00:15:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:15:03]:
So that's why I said something had to come into your life and throw a pebble into the fucking Stream.

Eldar [00:15:07]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:15:08]:
And that's what I'm trying to ask. What's the stream?

Eldar [00:15:10]:
But that's what then it's trying to.

Mike [00:15:11]:
Answer, but yes, but then you saying there's no pebble in the stream. This is a. There's.

Eldar [00:15:16]:
I call the pebble fomo. Oh, yeah. You know, this is like. You might have a better explanation to it.

Toliy [00:15:21]:
No, but. No, but, Mike, it's. It, like, it's not the case where it's just like. Like, like this is something that I've been suffering, but, like, not necessarily. Like, I feel like early on I would share this kind of stuff and work on this kind of stuff very actively. But then something came where I stopped kind of sharing it, and I've been more internalizing it.

Mike [00:15:45]:
See, you changed.

Toliy [00:15:48]:
That was like a long time time ago. Right. And during that time of internalizing it, I was internalizing it and I kind of knew what was going on, but I also, like, felt that I was still, like. It didn't feel like I was not progressing.

Mike [00:16:08]:
Like, did not feel like you weren't progressing.

Toliy [00:16:10]:
It did not feel like I wasn't.

Mike [00:16:12]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:16:13]:
Right. So it still felt like there was some progress happening. Right.

Mike [00:16:19]:
Could that. Could that be illusionary?

Toliy [00:16:21]:
Yeah, well, yeah. 100. Yeah.

Eldar [00:16:24]:
But I just like to be illusionary as well.

Toliy [00:16:27]:
Yeah. I go through these battles every single day. Every single day. Like, there. There's not one day I can't remember a day that passes that I don't.

Mike [00:16:36]:
You don't have an anxiety attack issue.

Toliy [00:16:38]:
Oh, 100.

Eldar [00:16:39]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:16:40]:
Oh, well, then you're completely. I'm just kidding. Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't know about this. Whatever. Like. Yeah, I think it's. Dennis can.

Mike [00:16:50]:
Should hear. But the. That was said yesterday. I've never heard this.

Eldar [00:16:53]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:16:53]:
And I was shocked to hear it. That's why for me, it was like, yo, wait, this is, you know. Yeah, this is crazy.

Denis [00:17:00]:
What was like the. What happened? Like, what was the triggering thing?

Mike [00:17:03]:
Yeah, you have to share it. I mean.

Toliy [00:17:04]:
Yeah, but I didn't know.

Denis [00:17:05]:
You don't have to if you don't want to.

Eldar [00:17:06]:
You don't have to. But.

Mike [00:17:07]:
Yeah, if you don't want me.

Toliy [00:17:08]:
It's like. Yeah, it's hard to, like, I guess say it properly because I've been thinking about so many different things.

Mike [00:17:14]:
Do you.

Toliy [00:17:14]:
Can. Can you say it if you're okay.

Eldar [00:17:16]:
With me saying it? I mean. Yeah, say it. He has reached a point where.

Toliy [00:17:24]:
Can you first clarify that I was not kicking that and throwing things in.

Eldar [00:17:28]:
The office that's exactly what you were doing.

Toliy [00:17:30]:
Okay, fine.

Eldar [00:17:33]:
He reached physically.

Toliy [00:17:35]:
Oh.

Eldar [00:17:35]:
It wasn't physical thing we're talking about. It's all metaphysical.

Denis [00:17:39]:
It's all. What do you. I like that. It's all metaphysical.

Eldar [00:17:43]:
Welcome, James.

Mike [00:17:45]:
If you're listening.

Toliy [00:17:46]:
Shout out, James.

Eldar [00:17:46]:
Shout out, James. Yeah, Samaj. So through my lenses, I see it as. Finally he came to.

Denis [00:17:55]:
You're doing the wraparound thing.

Eldar [00:17:57]:
No, no, I'm trying to put it in words. Came to a point where a decision has to be made. Like he can no longer. He can. No, he trapped himself. That's how I saw it. He trapped himself in complaining about things that he has no idea what he's complaining about. You know what I mean? A culmination of like, just perpetual cycle of the same nonsense that's going on in his head was finally said out loud.

Eldar [00:18:22]:
And it was said out loud in front of Mike. Okay. Huh? Yeah. That. Yeah. That he constantly is doing this internally. Right. And now finally he got to a point where he voiced it out.

Eldar [00:18:36]:
More people heard it. Right. We talked about it extensively of what's actually going on. And he also. Who was present. It wasn't just three of us present. It was four of us present. Right.

Eldar [00:18:47]:
The selves that I'm talking about, there was the negative self that he's talking about. And then as also we were able to bring out the reasonable self. And his reasonable self was able to also observe that which he was doing on the other side. So both individuals were present at that moment. So that's a crisis of identity that happens. So, like he's one is talking to the other back and forth, back and forth, and he hit a wall. Pretty much. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Denis [00:19:13]:
Okay, so to clarify, there was no actual physical kicking.

Eldar [00:19:17]:
There might be behind closed doors. I don't know.

Toliy [00:19:19]:
No.

Denis [00:19:20]:
Such a hype artist.

Eldar [00:19:23]:
You know what I'm saying?

Toliy [00:19:24]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:19:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:19:25]:
So that's how I saw it. You know what I mean? Why did it come out? What triggered it? He would have to be honest about that. I don't know. My guess was a fomo. Yeah. I think he's been fed up for a while. You've been listening to. Right.

Eldar [00:19:40]:
I want to lose weight. I want to do this, I want to do that. Certain things that he's been aspired to do and stuff like that.

Toliy [00:19:47]:
Yeah, yeah. That's like a big brutality. Is that like. There's a lot of things that I want to. Like there's a life that I guess I'd like to live or I'd like To, like, I like to think would make me happy or I like to think would be better or, like. Like, I'd like to do certain things, right? And every. And like, whichever desires or things that I have or things I want to do, I can never just, like. Like, I'm not that guy.

Toliy [00:20:12]:
That could be like, okay, like, every day in the morning, like, I want to have, like, this nice smoothie, right? And I'm just gonna make it. Like, I'll make it for a little bit, right? But then, like, everything I'll do is always just like. I cannot just, like, want something or, like, desire something, I guess, or, like, something might be the right thing or to do or, like, whatever, and just do it. So that'll be like, one. One of the things, right? Like, I don't know. I've been talking about losing weight. I don't know for how long, right? And, like, I can never, like. Like.

Toliy [00:20:47]:
Like, there's always something that comes up that, like, kills it over and over again, right? So it's like, so. So that.

Mike [00:20:55]:
That. That.

Toliy [00:20:55]:
It's like one of the things, right, that. That. That. That was big for me, right? Like, I can't just, like, put my mind to something and be like, okay, I'm gonna do it. I also realized that, like, I have no focus on anything. Like, no matter what I'm doing, I may be physically there, but I'm. I'm not. I'm also not there at the same time.

Toliy [00:21:19]:
Like, I could be watching TV and I'm watching some show. I'm watching the show, and I'm watching some of it, but I'm also not watching the show. I'm thinking about something else. I'm watching something else.

Denis [00:21:29]:
Like.

Toliy [00:21:29]:
Like, I'll have a tablet open, streaming one thing while watching something on tv and then listening to an interview on my phone at the same time.

Denis [00:21:37]:
Like, wow, three things.

Toliy [00:21:39]:
Yeah, I caught myself. This was a. Two days ago. I was listening to an interview on my phone. I was listening to. I mean, I was watching some video games, like on Twitch, and then I was watching the baseball game.

Denis [00:21:49]:
Wow, that's multitasking.

Eldar [00:21:51]:
Phone, tablet, and TV all at the same time, running.

Denis [00:21:55]:
And you were tuned into all three. Like, you actually. Like, you knew I was not.

Toliy [00:21:58]:
I was not tuned into any of this. No, no.

Eldar [00:22:02]:
He was trying to turn himself off.

Mike [00:22:03]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:22:04]:
And, like, in general, with everything, with. With work, like, I can't just sit down and be like, okay, like, this is what I'm dedicating my time to. This is what I'm Doing. And I'm just going to, like, think about work and do work for this period of time, and then when I'm ready, I'm gonna stop and do something else. Or, like, same thing with watching a show. I just can't, like, watch that one thing and then that's it. Like, I feel the need to, like. To, like, fry myself almost every single time.

Toliy [00:22:28]:
And I've been doing this for a while.

Eldar [00:22:30]:
Oh, wow. You never been caught at work doing this? Well.

Toliy [00:22:38]:
Yeah, so I've been, like. I've been in general, frying. I feel, like, my brain for, like, a while, and it just causes me to, like, just be in this, like, every day I'm just tired every day.

Eldar [00:22:48]:
I'm just, like, it's.

Toliy [00:22:49]:
It's just like the same thing over and over again. Like, I can never do anything, always don't feel well, always tired. Like, but, but, but. But then also, I'm doing a lot of things, I guess, technically.

Eldar [00:23:01]:
All right.

Toliy [00:23:02]:
Like, I'm thinking about all these different things. I'm just going in, like, a circle over and over again. But it feels like there's a lot of effort being put. There's nothing happening, you know? So I guess, like, that's like one. One encompassing thing.

Denis [00:23:16]:
I want to channel Samaj for a moment and ask you, did you ever think about meditation? It sounds like you're talking about, like, trying to calm, like.

Toliy [00:23:29]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:23:30]:
Stuff going on.

Toliy [00:23:31]:
Yeah. Like, not. Not seriously. But I, like, I. I guess over the last 10 years, I definitely have. I. I've definitely downloaded that app, the Palm app or whatever, and I definitely have sat down and try to do this, try to do that, but just, like, it's still the same thing of, like, to do it. Yeah, to, like, do it.

Toliy [00:23:46]:
To actually implement it. To, like, be a man of my word. Right. Like, I say something and then, like, it actually means something, right? And like, like, I can actually do it. Like, I'm actually good for it. Like, it's reliable. Like, I, like, I just don't feel I have any of that. And it just, like, it just goes in a circle over and over again of, like, wanting to do this, still having desire and stuff like that, but it never actually, like, coming to fruition, never actually progressing.

Toliy [00:24:17]:
So I just feel like I'm just like, as your brother said, I'm just flooring my car in place. Spoiling the wheels. Yeah. Like, in that. But to me, I'm driving, like, on.

Mike [00:24:30]:
A long trip, you know, because he's trying different shit.

Toliy [00:24:35]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:24:37]:
You gotta include the kicker which you.

Mike [00:24:40]:
Big kicker.

Eldar [00:24:40]:
Which. The big kicker which you, you know, exposed yesterday for Mike especially.

Mike [00:24:44]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [00:24:44]:
About the bar that you have set for yourself.

Toliy [00:24:48]:
Yeah, yeah. I also.

Eldar [00:24:49]:
Where the pain comes from.

Toliy [00:24:50]:
Yeah, the pain also comes. Is that like.

Eldar [00:24:53]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [00:24:53]:
I guess, like, the. The desire may be to, like, start examining it more, bringing it out more. I. I guess. Which again, it might not be like a. Yeah, the pain comes in. Is that, like, for a long time I've had this bar of being this, like, particular person. Right.

Toliy [00:25:13]:
And like, I don't know. I guess the best way to probably relate it is so, like, like, if you could, like, snap your fingers and be like, anything you want to be in all aspects of your life. Right, Right. And I like. I, like, I always carry this burden of, like. No, I guess, like, wanting to do this. Right. Like, wanting to be that.

Eldar [00:25:35]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:25:36]:
Right. And feeling that, like, that's like, what needs to happen. Or like there. There's no, like, he set a very.

Eldar [00:25:41]:
High bar for himself of who he wants to become.

Toliy [00:25:45]:
Yeah. And there's no like, like, like secondary version of it. Right. So, like, that. That brings me, I guess, a lot of guilt and like, I guess, pain, like not being that person.

Denis [00:26:00]:
Mm. Yeah.

Eldar [00:26:02]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Denis [00:26:03]:
I could definitely relate to that pain that you're talking about in terms of you want to do something and you have a certain bar for it, but then you don't do anything about it. Then the days kind of add up, the weeks, the months, the years, and it's just like this nagging thing that's like, you're living life. You're like, you said, you're on the road trip doing plenty of shit, but, like, there's certain things that you really wanted or really wanted to, like, accomplish or be somewhere.

Toliy [00:26:33]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:26:34]:
In whatever category. And why the dog and. And yeah. And it's like a nagging kind of like. I guess it's a form of anxiety for sure.

Toliy [00:26:46]:
It also fuels.

Denis [00:26:47]:
It ruins the.

Eldar [00:26:49]:
The moment.

Denis [00:26:50]:
Everything.

Toliy [00:26:50]:
The moment.

Denis [00:26:51]:
Like you're having a good day, but it's like, ah, but you didn't do that.

Toliy [00:26:54]:
Like, I don't have that. I don't have that where I just like, wake up and I'm like, you know, that was some great sleep. Like, yeah, like, what a day. Today. Like, today I'm gonna like, you know, I'm excited for today or something like that. Like, I. I would say I generally just don't have those kind of chill.

Denis [00:27:08]:
Bro, you booty hole before feelings.

Toliy [00:27:11]:
And like. Yeah, it just like, it's a very like, weighing kind of like.

Mike [00:27:17]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:27:18]:
Like, heavy feeling, you know?

Denis [00:27:21]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:27:22]:
But it's also like a. Like, a BS Thing, because it's like, like, what is this actual bar? And, like, why have I convinced myself that, like, I have been progressing to it when, like, a lot of the things on my bar, I guess, are, like, you know, like, virtuous things that. Like, where was. Like, where was the examination on the effort that's being made to, like, actually do these things or, like, achieve these.

Mike [00:27:53]:
Things or first figure out if you actually want.

Denis [00:27:56]:
Where was the. Say that last line again. Where was they.

Toliy [00:27:57]:
Like, where was the examination? On, like, seeing. Okay. Like. Like, you're traveling towards, like, being a respectful person, right? Yeah, like, to. Right, right. Like, where was the examination? Is that, like, you actually. On this road, like, you actually making an attempt at doing this? Like, rather than, like. Like, it's different when, like, you just say, okay, like, you want to be a respectful person and just, like, be respectful.

Toliy [00:28:20]:
Right. And have that kind of, like, character as part of you.

Mike [00:28:23]:
Like, you.

Toliy [00:28:24]:
Like, when they. When. When, like, people think of you, they think, okay, Dennis is respectful. Right. Like, that's hand in hand. Like, it's a lot different saying, like. Like. Like thinking about the idea of being that person.

Toliy [00:28:39]:
But it's a lot different of, like, actually embarking on the journey of, like, actually putting, like, pedal to the metal naturally, taking action of, like, doing things of.

Mike [00:28:51]:
Actually, I think. Yeah, I think what you're saying is valid, but I think you actually. If you're struggling with that, you don't actually have enough reason to actually want those things.

Eldar [00:29:02]:
I would agree with that. I would agree.

Mike [00:29:04]:
And that's why you have to examine those things.

Eldar [00:29:06]:
That. That's what I think that's what he's saying, though, too.

Mike [00:29:08]:
He says that I did not examine it.

Eldar [00:29:11]:
Examine it and put enough effort. Yeah, right. As to say, like, wait, okay, let's. Let's have a look at this bar.

Mike [00:29:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:29:16]:
What does it include? Yeah, right.

Toliy [00:29:18]:
But yet I feel like a failure. So, like, it doesn't make sense if you haven't done those things or put in the right effort on those things but then feel like you failed at it. It's like, how.

Eldar [00:29:28]:
Like, that's magic. Yeah. That's what I was saying yesterday and today, repeating my words of what I'm saying. Yeah. How is that possible?

Toliy [00:29:34]:
Yeah. How can you fail?

Mike [00:29:35]:
How is it possible?

Eldar [00:29:36]:
You haven't even tried.

Mike [00:29:37]:
Yeah, it's possible because it's a. I think it's ego form.

Eldar [00:29:41]:
Ego formed, like a form you're gonna have to expand on that.

Mike [00:29:45]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [00:29:45]:
But it's also like, at times, I think. I think it could be under the impression that we are doing those things that, like, you are on that path or you are on that road.

Eldar [00:29:56]:
Yeah. But not. Not when you stumble upon real life examples where you are not being respectful, for example.

Toliy [00:30:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:30:02]:
And it's a clear as day that you're not that guy.

Toliy [00:30:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:30:07]:
So you can be on the wrong person just so long, especially in real life situations when you say.

Denis [00:30:12]:
When you say, oh, you have to.

Mike [00:30:14]:
Actually see if you want those things.

Eldar [00:30:15]:
Yeah, I'd like to. I'd like for you to talk about that a little bit. But.

Denis [00:30:19]:
But I think it's also like there's fear involved to that too, where it's like, it's not just necessarily like, I know you, You. You like that kind of school of thought a lot. Where it's like, all right, like, maybe you don't really want to do those things or whatever. Yeah, but what about this element of fear where it's like, what if. What happens when you build up enough kind of time decay of not doing something that you want to do? What, what, what can happen is in, like, a mountain of fear sets in where you're just kind. This guy. A mountain of fear sets in where, like, I feel like, where it immobilizes you because of the fear of the failure of if you tried whatever that you wanted to do, let's say. Well, what I'm trying to say is.

Denis [00:31:06]:
Let's say what you use this example of being respectful or whatever. Let's say you're not respectful. You want to be respectful, but it takes a certain amount of work to be respectful. For instance, like, okay, you identified. You're not respectful. I have to do certain core things a couple times throughout my day, maybe. Okay, my interaction with my mom, my interaction with my friend, my interaction with my girlfriend, to be a little bit more mindful in those moments. And day by day, it'll build up where all of a sudden I'm just respectful because I just kept working on it, just being a little more mindful at every day.

Eldar [00:31:31]:
Yeah, but you don't. You don't set the bar like that.

Mike [00:31:34]:
You know, you don't set the bar.

Eldar [00:31:37]:
What you're doing, what you're saying, this is the way to do it.

Denis [00:31:41]:
No, but that's what I'm saying. We don't. That's the part of the problem is because without that, the mountain is so high. And then you just keep saying, like, yo, I gotta be respect. And then you. And then life slaps you in the face often enough where it's like, but that's. Again, I'm not respectful.

Mike [00:31:54]:
Right.

Eldar [00:31:55]:
And then you.

Denis [00:31:55]:
Every time you want, you're like. It just keeps reaffirming, like, I have to be respectful now. But. But now it's. Time decay has taken so much that it's a mountain of not starting that process with those small moments.

Eldar [00:32:09]:
Right.

Denis [00:32:10]:
And it becomes immobilizing, where you're just like, yo. Like the fear, I think, subconsciously, of even starting because you've. You haven't succeeded yet at it. It's almost like the mind convinces you that it's pointless to even start subconsciously.

Toliy [00:32:23]:
Well, not that it's pointless to start, but I feel like for me, it's like I have a perpetual cycle of, like, this mountain is, like, too big to climb, right?

Denis [00:32:31]:
Well, yeah.

Toliy [00:32:31]:
So I'm just gonna keep walking around it and keep, like, you know.

Eldar [00:32:34]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:32:34]:
Like, looking at it, thinking about it.

Denis [00:32:37]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:32:37]:
Like. All right. But then when you start climbing it, it's such. It. It feels that it's such a long climb that you already exhausted just from walking around it, just looking at it.

Denis [00:32:46]:
Well, yeah.

Toliy [00:32:47]:
So it's like.

Denis [00:32:48]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:32:48]:
That.

Eldar [00:32:48]:
This is why I would like to bring in Mike again to go back. I'd like to ask the questions, like, what impression were you under to create this imaginary mountain in the first place?

Toliy [00:32:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:32:59]:
What impression was the person under. Yeah.

Eldar [00:33:01]:
To create the mountain that big with that type of accomplishments in your head and to then somehow esteem themselves that they are equipped to climb it. Mm.

Mike [00:33:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:33:17]:
And you said that's why I said.

Mike [00:33:18]:
It'S a foreign ego.

Denis [00:33:19]:
I think it start. I think it started off as a molehill, and then it turned into a mountain.

Eldar [00:33:23]:
And then. You see, I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure if it started. I wish it did.

Mike [00:33:27]:
Not all great ideas, they're grandiose. And that's a grandiose idea.

Eldar [00:33:32]:
I mean. Yeah. I mean, that he put on the.

Mike [00:33:33]:
Board or most of us. You know, most people thrive in grandiose ideas. Nobody's trying to, you know, start a business one day at a time. They already want to make a million.

Eldar [00:33:43]:
Correct.

Mike [00:33:43]:
And that's. That's. That's like the.

Denis [00:33:46]:
Well, yeah.

Mike [00:33:47]:
Setting expectations that are unreasonable.

Eldar [00:33:49]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:33:49]:
Is a form. Is an ego form. I think it's attached to this.

Toliy [00:33:52]:
I've also had a. A hard time with, like, for example, saying, like. Okay, like today, like, let's just say I don't know, for example, for like dieting or something like that. Like, today I'm going to eat clean. Right. Like, I never have like a thought of like, that. It's like, no, for like the next like five years, this is what I need to do.

Denis [00:34:10]:
Well, that's. But that's what I'm saying.

Mike [00:34:11]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:34:12]:
It's also, it's. It's also difficult to have. Like, I do also know that, like, I have a cockiness inside of me that's like, yo, like, that is too easy.

Denis [00:34:22]:
Well, that's what I'm saying. But, but you know, but why does the mind now resort to like, yo, five or bust? Because it's been so, like so long and you feel like you've been, like you said, circling it around for so long that you almost have the validation, like, yo, like, like I. I know how to f. Like you said, cockiness of like, I know how to master it. So you almost feel like you've been doing it this whole time.

Eldar [00:34:43]:
Yeah. I'd like to examine the person who created in the first place.

Mike [00:34:46]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:34:46]:
But I just feel like, I'd like.

Eldar [00:34:48]:
To know like the Picasso that you've created for yourself to say this is the perfect picture that you think that you can accomplish. I'd like to know, like, what impression were you under in order to even.

Mike [00:34:57]:
Create those type of standards it comes from.

Eldar [00:35:01]:
It could be, you know, the things that you put on the board are definitions of an enlightened being.

Mike [00:35:07]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:35:08]:
You know what I'm saying?

Mike [00:35:09]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:35:10]:
Where like you should literally start with, I'm just gonna wake up tomorrow. You know what I mean? Like, my goal is to wake up tomorrow.

Mike [00:35:19]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:35:19]:
Like my new like, or I'm gonna get off this couch without falling on my face. That's pretty low hanging. You know what I mean?

Denis [00:35:27]:
But we don't like low hanging fruit.

Eldar [00:35:29]:
But that's why we.

Mike [00:35:31]:
That's an issue.

Eldar [00:35:32]:
We've become these people that set such high bars for ourselves and then we have to carry all that weight and all the guilt, all the fear, all the whatever, you know, fear, guilt, everything that's. That's so negative about how we negative talk about ourselves that we're never get to even. We paralyze ourselves before we even get to start in a race.

Mike [00:35:54]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:35:54]:
So like, who are those people that creating this and what impression are they under?

Denis [00:35:59]:
I think they're the person that wants to succeed.

Toliy [00:36:03]:
Okay, so tell me.

Eldar [00:36:05]:
Introduce.

Toliy [00:36:06]:
Yeah, but it's also like, I do think that, like, it has to do with like, Like Child, like childhood, like ways of, like, learning or like lines. I mean, like, obviously everyone's heard.

Eldar [00:36:15]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:36:16]:
This line. What's a line? Dream big. Yeah, right. Like that's, that's just like a common.

Eldar [00:36:22]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [00:36:23]:
A common line. Right.

Eldar [00:36:24]:
No one's like, drink milk back in the 90s.

Toliy [00:36:26]:
Yes.

Mike [00:36:27]:
No, but I, I won't, I won't. I can't. I'm not sure if that's what it is. My thing is that's like.

Eldar [00:36:33]:
You saying that's a cop out. No, I'm saying that's, that's you something hiding behind religion. Just a fight.

Toliy [00:36:37]:
No, I'm not talking about that. I'm saying that, like the way that you understand of like, like your bars for things like your.

Mike [00:36:46]:
But I don't think the seed is the dream big. I think the seed is that you're trying to revenge the world. You're trying to prove to somebody, somebody else, something. I still think it comes from a place of hurt. I think all those dreams that we made for ourselves to prove to other people that we're not losers. We're not losers.

Toliy [00:37:06]:
Yeah, I, I, Yeah, I feel that's.

Mike [00:37:08]:
And I could, I think everybody in this room has a child story where they felt like, yo, they were put down, they were embarrassed.

Eldar [00:37:16]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:37:16]:
And they have trauma from Somebody told them that they couldn't do something.

Eldar [00:37:19]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:37:19]:
And now they're on a mission. Whether it's on the basketball court, in the food court.

Eldar [00:37:24]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:37:25]:
On the tennis court. Yeah. Whatever it is, it's coming out. And that's why, like. Yeah. If you examine, like, having a lot of money, is that going to make you happier? No, no. But dream big. Yeah.

Eldar [00:37:41]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:37:41]:
That's. You have to have a big Everything. A lot of everything.

Toliy [00:37:44]:
Yeah. It's.

Eldar [00:37:45]:
Right.

Mike [00:37:45]:
To show that you're better than the other person.

Toliy [00:37:47]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:37:48]:
Somebody, especially the one that looked down upon you.

Mike [00:37:50]:
Exactly.

Toliy [00:37:51]:
Yeah. No, I agree that like, the, the revenge tour is definitely part of it, but I also feel that like, like with that and I guess past that too, it's like, like I feel like the abilities to like, devise proper plans, like the ability to like, like, do things in a proper way. Like, I feel like until you examine those things and really learn the right steps of it. Right. Like, it's like, I think are bound to fail in those things. Like, for example, like. Right. Like, like if I say, okay, like, this is what I want to do in my head, there is like unconscious ready plans and things that, like, okay, like, this is what the process is.

Toliy [00:38:40]:
Like this is what I'm gonna do. Then this, then that, then this, then that. And then like, I don't know, you can make time frames, you can make like, you know, things like that. Someone who's better at doing this, I think thinks about things a lot more carefully and they're more skilled at creating better plans. And people that like don't have those abilities or like don't think in that kind of way, I think that they're prone to making more like things that will properly fall apart. Like they're people who are not good at accounting for things they're not good at.

Mike [00:39:15]:
Yeah, you see, like that's, that's, that's. It's also. I think it's. For me it comes back to ego. Especially like what I kind of like am learning now. And I said this to, I said it, you know, I think a couple times. But I think the key to solving any problem is to humble yourself. You know, if you're about to embark on a journey and you don't know about losing weight or eating healthy, why are you trying to figure out on your own? You know, why are you trying to like solve it on your own? My, like, I think it's important to go to people who know about whatever that you're trying to accomplish, you know, or people around you that can give you snap to reality.

Mike [00:39:54]:
Because most of our grand deals ideas, they're driven by emotion, right? Like emotion to be a certain way to present a certain image, you know.

Eldar [00:40:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:40:04]:
So if, if we have a grandiose emotional things, I think we can leverage friends, we can leverage, you know, I don't know, other people, podcasts, whatever, whatever we can leverage to kind of. I think there's two things here. I think is one is our dreams are actually fake. Fake, like fake news, you know, and.

Eldar [00:40:25]:
It almost, it almost sounds that if we all agree or most of us agree that we are a lot of times are driven by our ego, we should not be allowed to make any kinds of dreams. Right. Let's just say that the dream big part I'm talking about, right? Because a lot of times we're already up programmed to dream big.

Mike [00:40:44]:
Yeah, for sure.

Eldar [00:40:45]:
You know, I don't want a hundred thousand dollar job. I want a million dollar job. Oh, there's a, there's a possibility for 10 million job. I want the 10 million dollar job. Wait, some people make 100 million. I want that.

Mike [00:40:56]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:40:56]:
You understand. So because of the fact that we are probably already written by conditioning like you said from the get, from the Start of dreaming big. And our egos are running us, Our pride and ego running us. We should not be allowed to make any plans.

Mike [00:41:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:41:14]:
Especially the ones that sound very big.

Denis [00:41:16]:
Yeah, but. But maybe that's the ideal.

Mike [00:41:19]:
But the problem is, though, not always.

Eldar [00:41:22]:
But you're hurting yourself.

Mike [00:41:23]:
But even. Even more.

Eldar [00:41:25]:
No. Even get to that.

Denis [00:41:27]:
That, you know, we'll get to that.

Eldar [00:41:28]:
We first are trying to, you know, but even before that, the head off.

Mike [00:41:31]:
Before that, I. I think we can, as friends, we, you know, or we can call each other out and say, if he says, yo, I want to lose weight, or I say I want to gain weight, get jacked, I think we can actually call each other out and be like, yo, my friend, you actually don't want this. So it's not only that, it's like not only the way that we do things, but why is the things that.

Denis [00:41:54]:
We choose would be the argument for you to say. Let's say in his example, he doesn't.

Mike [00:41:58]:
Want that Everything's pointing that he does not want to lose weight.

Denis [00:42:01]:
But that's. But. But everything.

Mike [00:42:04]:
Can you tell me something that you wanted to do that you had to force yourself to do it? Yeah.

Eldar [00:42:08]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:42:08]:
Do you have to force yourself to go.

Denis [00:42:11]:
I'll tell you about that.

Mike [00:42:12]:
Do you have to force yourself to go play basketball?

Toliy [00:42:14]:
No.

Mike [00:42:15]:
No. You want to do basketball? Do you have to force yourself to eat healthy?

Eldar [00:42:19]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:42:20]:
Or would you rather eat the unhealthy pizza? Chinese?

Toliy [00:42:23]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:42:24]:
Do you think illogically thing if you actually want to do something, do you think that it should feel like it's.

Denis [00:42:29]:
All just about what we like? I'll give you an example. You asked me. I'll give you a small example. I've been lifting weights since I was 17 years.

Mike [00:42:40]:
That's debatable what you've been actually doing.

Eldar [00:42:42]:
But no, no, I would say you've been lifting weights. He did not say he's doing it right.

Mike [00:42:45]:
Oh, okay, fine.

Eldar [00:42:48]:
I'm gonna play the Devil's outlet with them. Sure.

Mike [00:42:51]:
So that's.

Eldar [00:42:51]:
Yeah, I got some.

Denis [00:42:53]:
Okay. There was moments in the beginning of that journey where I. I did. It started off the motivation, let's be very clear, for surface level reason. And. And I continued that process for a number of years, even to the point where I was pretty big and jacked and blah, blah, blah. Then that died off once I was like, the year started setting in year three, year four. I'm like, what am I doing this for? You know what I mean? And then five, six, you're like, all Right.

Denis [00:43:20]:
Like, and then you get a girlfriend. You're like, I don't even need to be doing this. You know, and then another girl, you know, life goes on.

Eldar [00:43:26]:
Wow. That's a lot of waste of time. Okay.

Mike [00:43:29]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:43:30]:
No. Sounded like just.

Denis [00:43:32]:
Yeah, I guess then life is a waste of time. Learning is a waste of time.

Eldar [00:43:36]:
No, no, no, no. That's not a waste of time yet.

Mike [00:43:38]:
No, no learning.

Eldar [00:43:39]:
Now, if you attach learning to it that you needed to work out in order to get a girlfriend and realize that you didn't need to work out because you got to go.

Denis [00:43:45]:
Well, no, no. But it's not. But. But you gotta understand, it's. Nothing is just as binary, black and white. Like, they're working out. How the hell he got outside.

Mike [00:43:54]:
That thing is open.

Denis [00:43:55]:
Working out made me feel good.

Eldar [00:43:57]:
Yeah. Oh, okay.

Denis [00:43:58]:
There was other things to it. Right. It started off surface level. It held a very surface level.

Eldar [00:44:03]:
But the major. Yeah. Driven factor sure was service.

Mike [00:44:06]:
But.

Denis [00:44:06]:
But then I started enjoying it as well. And there's a reason why people work out and then continue because it's also addicting. You like the way you look. You like the way you feel. But look, how you feel is also a big component. You can't just override that.

Eldar [00:44:17]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:44:18]:
Then it got to a point where I'm like, I don't need to be doing this, but when I stopped doing it, I didn't like one. How I looked into how I felt and felt. Don't discredit the felt just because I'm saying how I looked first, even though looked as a big one. And then I went through that process where I'm like, all right, like, how long? Maybe two months, three months. Like, I felt, like, really bad. I'll speed the story up to get the point across, but it was a couple months of feeling bad after many years of doing it. And then I'm like, hold on a second.

Eldar [00:44:46]:
What.

Denis [00:44:47]:
What's going on here? I no longer want to work out six days a week and pump protein. Like, it's not. It's not a desire of mine that left me.

Mike [00:44:55]:
Mm.

Denis [00:44:56]:
But I still like how I feel and. And how I look when I do work out. So where do I find the balance?

Eldar [00:45:03]:
How long did that transition happen? How many years has passed since what?

Mike [00:45:07]:
Since you realized.

Denis [00:45:09]:
To the realization part. So it's 11. It's about six years.

Mike [00:45:13]:
In six years.

Denis [00:45:14]:
In five. Six years in. There started being more.

Eldar [00:45:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. You were not idea sure.

Denis [00:45:22]:
About four years. About four years in. It started the. The. There was like a Like a, like a disruption, like, yo, something's not right. But then at 6, I figured it out that, okay, cool, I'm no longer that person. I still want to work out, but I got to find it in my way where, like, I'm no longer willing to do what I have to. What I did before, be ginormous and this and that.

Denis [00:45:43]:
But I still want to do it.

Eldar [00:45:44]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:45:45]:
And it's still short, this material pursuit or whatever you want to call it. It's also vain. Yeah. But it's also health. Has to do with a little bit too. Where possibly I then transitioned it, long story short, to find a system for myself that's worked and now it's four years straight where I found a system. I'm like, yo, no longer willing to work out five times a week. I, I, when I was doing, like, yo, why am I doing? I don't enjoy it.

Denis [00:46:07]:
It's like, I'm like, I hated the gym. I hated everything. So I transitioned, okay, from the gym workout on the monkey bars.

Eldar [00:46:13]:
Okay.

Denis [00:46:13]:
The monkey bars, okay. From the monkey bars to the house. Okay. From the house to, okay. But I'm still working out four or five. Long story short, now it's been about four years where I work out 10 years, 11 years, 30 minutes. Last four years, it's been a 30 minute, 33 minute workout twice a week.

Eldar [00:46:28]:
Yeah, that's it.

Denis [00:46:29]:
Like, because I realized I found myself a system and a structure. I found myself that, a person like me. Even with things that I don't want to do, which if you ask me, there's still every week I'm like, yeah.

Mike [00:46:38]:
It'S like, I don't really want to.

Denis [00:46:39]:
Fucking work out right now, but I've created a tangible enough system where it's like, yo, my man, if you're telling me you can't get up for exactly, because I time it 33 minutes. Like, you're just a piece of shit. You're just like, yeah, like, come on.

Eldar [00:46:52]:
Say it all out. Yeah, you're a piece of shit.

Denis [00:46:54]:
Yeah, you're a piece of shit. And so I, I've, I've. And I've done this with a couple times, thankfully. And these, this is a smaller.

Eldar [00:47:00]:
What are the six year year like, like examples like that that you have in your life that you've done like for six years or more that like learned the lesson afterwards and then you found a happy medium, which is not necessarily, maybe not even a happy medium yet. What?

Denis [00:47:15]:
Yeah, I mean, what are you trying to get? I, I can, I can Name some. But what are you trying. You guys invalidate the.

Eldar [00:47:19]:
The. No, I'm just trying to find out the process of your learning.

Denis [00:47:23]:
Well, the process of learning is time, trial and error.

Eldar [00:47:26]:
Got it.

Denis [00:47:27]:
Trial and error. And there I found my happy medium. For now, for many years. I enjoy it.

Eldar [00:47:32]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:47:33]:
And when I. When I actually get into it and do it, I'm like, yeah, I'm glad I'm doing this. This feels good. Like.

Eldar [00:47:38]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:47:38]:
It's a feeling. It's a health thing. It's also a look thing where I want to still be looking decent. And I'm able to cross all those dots without overwhelming myself. Like the cats in the gym do. I refute. Like, I can't find myself to, like, y'all gotta go get. No, it's like, it's very.

Denis [00:47:53]:
It's an hour a week.

Eldar [00:47:54]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:47:55]:
I've created a system for myself that is tangible.

Eldar [00:47:57]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:47:58]:
Other stuff, I mean, not at six years, but there's. There's different things where, like, I can. I could definitely talk about them. Where that's actually a thing that I'm finding from my life that has to do with this, where I'm also get overwhelmed by the big grandiose. But once I started finding some systems for it, it becomes like, consumable and it's no longer this, like, overwhelming thing.

Eldar [00:48:19]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:48:19]:
And. But it seems like you're don't like the example. It's like a BS thing.

Eldar [00:48:23]:
So I'll.

Denis [00:48:24]:
I'll leave it at that.

Eldar [00:48:25]:
No, no, no. The examples that you made actually gave me an insight of the way some. Some people learn, you know, as a choice. Right. If we can find out whether or not that's an efficient choice. Efficient way to learn. Yeah. If this is the way other people would like to learn and find out whether or not, you know, the middle ground will be then at the end of that, which is slow and steady, which I'm always.

Eldar [00:48:46]:
I'm a proponent of. Slow and steady.

Mike [00:48:47]:
Yeah, sure.

Eldar [00:48:48]:
You know. Know what I mean?

Denis [00:48:50]:
You're taking that.

Eldar [00:48:51]:
It takes.

Denis [00:48:51]:
You're taking it as the. The stupid long way. But I'm giving you the other version of the other perspective of it where it's like, I could have kept doing five times a week and been miserable, but instead I found that happy medium for myself where I could still keep it in my life.

Eldar [00:49:05]:
You did your time. Six years was more than enough.

Denis [00:49:07]:
Well, no, but, but, but, my man, I'm still. But half the time, I'm now doing it in a different version that I am. That Is consumable. I'm able to burn it out. Molehill. Now it's not a mountain.

Eldar [00:49:19]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:49:19]:
You know what I'm saying? So I think it's very important that with all our dreams and goals, you start bringing it to the mohu. You asked another thing.

Toliy [00:49:26]:
Yeah, no, see, like I completely disagree with the, with, with, with the way the approach is. Right. Because again, the question about this is how to protect yourself from yourself when you're not yourself. Right. And ultimately this is, we're talking about what he has grandiose dreams. He's willing to continue to make those grandiose dreams and have years down the line your head over the onto the wall just to find out that it's been doing it wrong. Yeah, just to find out a new method. Yes, just to find out what works for him.

Mike [00:49:54]:
But that's where the whole thing comes to correct.

Denis [00:49:56]:
Sounds like you're just shitting on the process of life. It looks like.

Eldar [00:50:00]:
No, no, I'm shitting on the example of your working out experience for six years. If we're here thinking mind, would you like to go on that type of experience that you just described?

Denis [00:50:12]:
Yeah, but what six years is relative. You making it sound big. But what if for the rest of my life till I'm 80, I work out, but now for the next 60 years I work out the way that's beneficial and helpful to me. What six years in that perspective.

Eldar [00:50:24]:
Right.

Denis [00:50:24]:
You're looking at it as like, oh my God.

Eldar [00:50:26]:
I agree, but the time will tell.

Mike [00:50:27]:
But there's the better way to do it, which I want to take the more efficient route.

Denis [00:50:33]:
Sure, but what would be the more efficient route?

Eldar [00:50:35]:
Well, you clear.

Denis [00:50:35]:
What do you mean by saying, you know what, I'm clearly identified.

Eldar [00:50:39]:
You'll clearly identify it. You were doing, you were stressing yourself out because of vanity.

Denis [00:50:44]:
Sure.

Eldar [00:50:44]:
We identified the vanity being the mountain.

Denis [00:50:46]:
And I found a way vanity out pursue vanity. Oh, I didn't take it out. I found a way to still pursue it in a consumable way where I'm still doing it. Pursuing vanity.

Eldar [00:50:58]:
Now that you've been dishonest with us. Because now you said, hey, I realized for the health reasons I still. It made me.

Denis [00:51:03]:
No, I'm not. You said both. I made sure to say both. I didn't remove anything. I said the health is you. What was the primary before the vanity?

Eldar [00:51:12]:
What's primary now? Both. Okay, that's it.

Denis [00:51:17]:
Yeah, I mean it's. I found the balance to tackle vanity.

Eldar [00:51:19]:
Because I was under impression that first was vanity. Now it's health and feel good. Okay. Because now he has a girlfriend. What? Vanity. He also said, I realized that I don't need this anymore because I have a girlfriend. Yeah, I've achieved.

Denis [00:51:31]:
Yeah, well, I'm giving you. I was giving you the. No, you know, but I'm giving you. I'm saying I'm giving. Giving you the insights of realizing some things is you give me.

Eldar [00:51:41]:
It doesn't mean I'm not thinking pattern and what.

Denis [00:51:44]:
But okay, but I'm still saying that it's partially just like it was in the beginning. I just, it was always health and vanity. Vanity was first. Vanity is still a part of it. There's no way, like, I'd be lying if I said vanity is not a part of it. Yeah, but I like the way it.

Eldar [00:51:57]:
Looks to get a girlfriend.

Denis [00:51:59]:
No, but, but that's you. You assumed I said, I said that I started doing. No, he said like, oh, because you, you want to. I'm like, yeah, it was for the.

Eldar [00:52:06]:
World to get bitches, like, sure.

Denis [00:52:08]:
Wanted to get bitches. Wanted to look a certain way, fit a certain whatever perspective.

Eldar [00:52:13]:
Sure. Yeah.

Toliy [00:52:13]:
I think he's saying that he started with vanity and then he brought in the feel good and he still continued with vanity and feel good together.

Eldar [00:52:22]:
To me, what's, what's the focus now?

Mike [00:52:25]:
No, you still stuck.

Denis [00:52:26]:
Consumable vanity.

Eldar [00:52:27]:
Consumable vanity.

Toliy [00:52:28]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:52:29]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:52:29]:
I mean, he still doesn't feel good about it, but he said he doesn't like to go.

Eldar [00:52:33]:
He still doesn't like to go.

Denis [00:52:34]:
Okay, but that's what I'm saying.

Eldar [00:52:36]:
That even makes more sense. I've been doing this for 10 years.

Denis [00:52:39]:
Yeah, I mean, how long were you playing on the team for? How many couple years have you been playing on the team before you realized that playing at a full time schedule is too much for your body?

Eldar [00:52:47]:
Very good.

Denis [00:52:48]:
No, I'm saying like, you guys, you guys are the. You know what I mean?

Eldar [00:52:51]:
It's like, no, for sure. You taking a long. You gotta pull receipts. You get a full receipts. Come on.

Denis [00:52:55]:
You guys taking a long route. But like everyone takes the long route. And like, what is, what is this even. Like we're on the same. What are we even talking about? 100, you know, and when you say like, don't like, like. Yeah. The point of what I was saying is I didn't like it enough to do it at that level, but I found a system that made it consumable where it is still a. Yeah, it.

Mike [00:53:13]:
Still sounds like you don't want to.

Denis [00:53:14]:
Do it, of course I don't. But there's a lot of people that do a lot of things that they don't want to do.

Mike [00:53:19]:
I would like not to be one of those.

Eldar [00:53:21]:
Yeah, me neither.

Denis [00:53:22]:
Okay. I guess then we could just sit on a couch potato once again.

Toliy [00:53:26]:
Yeah. I think I, I, I think the goal is to, is to only do things that you want to do and.

Mike [00:53:33]:
To strive towards if you actually want to, you know, enjoy a good life.

Denis [00:53:37]:
But as well just do nothing and kind of just.

Eldar [00:53:41]:
Yeah. Just drill. Float around age all day.

Denis [00:53:43]:
I don't need to do anything because, like, it's all useless anyway. So I just, yeah. Forget it.

Eldar [00:53:48]:
Give me a beer while you walking over there.

Mike [00:53:51]:
I'm not doing anything. You can think.

Denis [00:53:52]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:53:52]:
Not do anything.

Toliy [00:53:53]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:53:53]:
And then, Then what?

Eldar [00:53:55]:
And then get nowhere in life.

Denis [00:53:57]:
Yeah. No, I, you know, when you, There's a lot of things that we don't like to do, but it doesn't mean that they're all, you know, like in this, in this example, it's vanity. But the point I was trying to make because you're trying to like, kind.

Eldar [00:54:10]:
Of sabotage your argument. Yeah.

Denis [00:54:12]:
Which is fine. There's nothing I'm used to more in life than that.

Eldar [00:54:16]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:54:16]:
But the point I was trying to make was that I actually was trying to put the emphasis on the fact that it is still vanity. Meaning like he's asking him.

Eldar [00:54:26]:
I was not under the pressure when you were saying that.

Denis [00:54:28]:
I'm trying to make the point. You were under the wrong impression. That was not my point.

Mike [00:54:32]:
I'm glad that now he found it.

Toliy [00:54:33]:
He found a more efficient way to still get his family and feel good. What? And still not like, but not like it as much as doing it for five days a week versus Right.

Denis [00:54:44]:
So what I'm concerned. My point was wasn't.

Toliy [00:54:45]:
But still not like it.

Eldar [00:54:46]:
No. But I'm glad that he's doing better.

Denis [00:54:48]:
You're not.

Eldar [00:54:49]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:54:49]:
The point.

Toliy [00:54:50]:
But his top tolerance for doing he doesn't like is, Is very high.

Eldar [00:54:56]:
Yes.

Toliy [00:54:56]:
I, I, I, I, I, I think the problem that they're having with what you're saying is that even though you did find more even though you did find. Let's say instead of going. Instead of going for five days, you're going for two.

Denis [00:55:09]:
Still doing.

Toliy [00:55:10]:
You're still doing that you don't like. But that's when you're ending at that.

Mike [00:55:13]:
Right.

Toliy [00:55:14]:
So I think that they're saying is.

Denis [00:55:15]:
That I fundamentally disagree with your guys's concept of like you. We only do what we like. And that's it. That's why I. Okay, bring this example. Meaning.

Eldar [00:55:23]:
No, this is. This is a concept of we want. We're striving, like, doing like we'd like to. Like, we'd like to be there.

Mike [00:55:30]:
That should be the approach to actually life, is to do things that you want.

Eldar [00:55:33]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:55:34]:
I think the argument here is that these. That if we put our minds together.

Denis [00:55:37]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:55:37]:
It will be easier to live. It'll be easier and faster to strive and. And to get to a life that you are always doing things that you like. Now, if you. If you believe that is not possible, I could see how you can.

Eldar [00:55:53]:
Yeah, I believe why we're arguing 100.

Toliy [00:55:56]:
Yes. Do you believe that that's possible?

Denis [00:55:59]:
Is it possible to live a life where you only do what you like? Yeah.

Mike [00:56:01]:
No, I have to.

Denis [00:56:02]:
I have to. I know what you're trying to say, but I'm not gonna. Like, there's no. Like, it's not possible, because name me some things. We take a regular day of life. Like, Like, I mean, like, you.

Eldar [00:56:13]:
You get driving, driving, driving.

Denis [00:56:14]:
Your kid is. You got the beautiful family. Everything is peaceful, everything. But the kid is crying. Like, you do not want to get up to feed that baby right now. Like, there's no way where you're like, you know what? You're gonna create a life for yourself where there's this perfect combination where you. It's just not. Like, it's not.

Denis [00:56:31]:
It's not life. It's just not. Now, can there be a pursuit to eradicate the dumb shit just for doing it mindlessly and not having awareness? Of course. That's why. But. But this. But do I believe that it's a way to create a life like that? No, because there's so many things we can go down the list of anybody's day. Just a day.

Denis [00:56:49]:
Not even like actual goals, where it's like, bro, like, we're all doing things that we don't like, but there's a purpose to whatever that we're doing, hopefully. And you're willing to withstand whatever has to be done for that purpose.

Eldar [00:57:00]:
And.

Denis [00:57:00]:
And that's like, there's no way. So for this, my point was not even about the vanity versus the health. That wasn't about it. He thought I was trying to make the concept, like, I found health now, and so I do it. No, I. I was trying to. You understand what I was saying? He was saying. He was saying, like, yo, you probably just don't want to work out.

Denis [00:57:14]:
I was like, well, why are you Saying that he just doesn't want to be in shape, then doesn't want. But I'm saying is that, like, there may be, like, you may never want to, like, love working out or anything like that, but you want the goal. You want to be healthy, you want to look a certain way, you want to feel a certain way to. To do. To get to that place, you may need to do things you don't like, but then you'll learn to find beauty in those things through structure and through a little bit of a system that is consumable. That was my whole point where here I still hold onto the vanity, where I still want to look a certain way.

Eldar [00:57:44]:
Right.

Denis [00:57:44]:
And feel a certain way, but also look, no question. And I'm no longer as bigger and this and that, but I'm still happy with who I am, with how I look. Let's say, talking about the vanity, I'm holding on to that vanity. So I found a consumable way to do it because everybody's got all these vanity and all these things.

Toliy [00:58:00]:
And like, what would you say right now?

Eldar [00:58:02]:
What.

Toliy [00:58:03]:
What percent of your day are you doing things that you don't like right now?

Denis [00:58:06]:
I don't know, man.

Eldar [00:58:07]:
I mean. Oh, my God.

Denis [00:58:08]:
No, I don't know.

Toliy [00:58:10]:
Like, are you 80? 20? Like, 80% you don't like. And 20% is, like, ideal.

Denis [00:58:15]:
I would have really think about it because I don't. I don't care about that. Like, stuff like, I want to be happy.

Toliy [00:58:20]:
And of course I don't wondering, like, that I hate, like. Do you not believe that? Because, like, to me it sounds like, like the way that you're talking about it.

Denis [00:58:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:58:28]:
Is I think that you're. You're undermining your, like, abilities to, like, progress in life. And, like, you're con. You're, like, coming in with like, I guess, like, the limiting belief that, like, something it is.

Denis [00:58:41]:
No, but you, like, that's one way to look at it, which is I. I could see that.

Toliy [00:58:45]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:58:45]:
I'm looking at it as Noah, like the opposite of no.

Toliy [00:58:48]:
No. But I'm wondering is that, like, I'm.

Denis [00:58:50]:
Looking at it as, like, yo, I have the. I have the potential to have the discipline to do whatever I need to do and accomplish whatever I want.

Eldar [00:58:58]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:58:58]:
By. By applying some structure and discipline.

Toliy [00:59:01]:
No, no, I know. Therefore, I'm limitless. No, but the way that you're talking about it, like, my. My curiosity is that, like, why are you not curious to first see if it's possible to live a life that that, that, like, yeah, like. Yeah, like, you want and enjoy before.

Eldar [00:59:16]:
That should buy, like, sale, though.

Toliy [00:59:17]:
Yeah. Because, like, you're strongly talking about, like, like, like, like, just. Yeah, I. I guess how my ears are hearing it.

Denis [00:59:24]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [00:59:25]:
Like, what I'm hearing is that, like, yo, this is dead. This is definitely not possible. And this is not something that I'm trying to explore. Right.

Denis [00:59:34]:
To live a life where everything is.

Toliy [00:59:36]:
Yeah, everything is. And, like, you're a relatively. Like, you're a young person. Right.

Eldar [00:59:40]:
You would be disappointed, too, if you. You thought that you can move coconuts and then they didn't move. You thought so too, if. If there was no thousand dollars in your bank account the next morning when you thought about making it with your mind, you'd be disappointed, too.

Toliy [00:59:53]:
Yeah, no, no, I'm just saying, like, the way.

Denis [00:59:56]:
Drop the mic for you or.

Toliy [00:59:57]:
No, like, you're talking very strongly about it. And, like, I was talking normally.

Denis [01:00:03]:
It's just your boy started, like. So it became like, as always.

Toliy [01:00:11]:
The way that you're talking about it is that, like, I'm not. You're talking about it aggressively, but strongly in the way that, like, you're really believing it and you're not bringing in, like, room for, like, maybe the way.

Denis [01:00:23]:
That I bring it in. Where, like, do you go through a day where you're. Have you ever had even one day, anybody in the room. And this is a genuine question, because I may be dead wrong here. I need to be in line. You've had a full day where you literally have not done a single thing that you didn't want to do.

Toliy [01:00:41]:
Probably not.

Denis [01:00:42]:
So that's what I'm saying. So again, now you're. You're trying to piggyback that by saying. Okay, so you're trying to. And if I was using his ideas, it's like, I've just been through so much pain. Hold on, let me finish the idea.

Mike [01:00:55]:
Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Denis [01:00:56]:
Like, but that's not how I'm looking at it. Where it's like. No, it's just like. It's about, like, applying reason to it. Where it's like your favorite thing. Where it's like, okay, there's. There's reason.

Mike [01:01:08]:
There's just.

Denis [01:01:09]:
I just. I just don't see how there's a reason.

Eldar [01:01:12]:
Anxiety.

Denis [01:01:12]:
Possible to do only what I like. Because I see that on the other side of some things that I don't.

Mike [01:01:19]:
Because you have a lot of what I want.

Denis [01:01:21]:
Right. In whatever. Because I. Yes, I. Desires that you. I Kept being interrupted. So that's what I was trying to go.

Mike [01:01:27]:
I'm trying to help you out.

Denis [01:01:28]:
I was trying to go to that original concept. Concept where you're like, yo, you love the concept of. And your boy over there, like, loves with the striped Russian army polo over there. You should. You should only do what you like. Laziness is not a real thing. My argument. And then you said, yeah, and then you said, that's why he doesn't want to do it.

Denis [01:01:45]:
My argument is simply that by bringing up the working out thing was just that we're still human. We're still going to pursue certain things in this.

Toliy [01:01:54]:
Right?

Mike [01:01:55]:
Unless.

Denis [01:01:55]:
Yeah, you're dedicating yourself to that enlightened experience, then I don't know what you guys are doing watching ufc. I don't know what you guys are doing eating meat.

Eldar [01:02:02]:
I don't know what.

Mike [01:02:03]:
You're on the pizza tour.

Denis [01:02:04]:
You should be. You should be in the woods meditating, sitting or eating berries. Using your Tesla income dollars straight to sit with the thought leaders of the world in terms of enlightened masters are trying to get to the bottom of how to get to the. And that's a no.

Mike [01:02:18]:
You got to get to the bottom.

Denis [01:02:19]:
That's a real. That's a real pursuit. But if we're trying to live in this world and still go to whatever it's 1200 tickets to watch a screen and this and that, or, I don't know, buy a Tesla $5,000 or whatever else in that we're living in this world, we're gonna be having material pursuits. So we might as well. If we're still gonna be doing things right that are not, like, perfectly for enlightened journey, we might as well find the balance to fight to create systems, to consumably do it without losing our minds is all I'm saying. Same thing with the calorie count.

Mike [01:02:49]:
I have to chalk this one up to. We might have to agree. To agree. Yeah.

Denis [01:02:53]:
I mean, no, I. I want you to. You know, aside from just some weird coconut examples like, like, I don't understand what's. Like. You show me. Show me the example of like. Like, like any. Is anyone in this room living a life where they just don't ever do what they don't like or has ever even had that or knows anybody?

Mike [01:03:10]:
Right?

Denis [01:03:11]:
Because, like. Because then you.

Eldar [01:03:12]:
Why you want to see if we.

Mike [01:03:14]:
Know someone, then it's valid.

Eldar [01:03:15]:
Guys who are like, I don't believe in Jesus until I see him. Yeah.

Toliy [01:03:18]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:03:18]:
I mean, of course he is.

Denis [01:03:19]:
What's the point of talking about that? Like, you know, like.

Toliy [01:03:22]:
Like, why is there such a big disconnect here?

Eldar [01:03:26]:
You curious?

Toliy [01:03:27]:
Well, I want to see, like, are.

Eldar [01:03:28]:
You actually asking a rhetorical question or an actual question of curiosity, or are you just shocked?

Toliy [01:03:33]:
A little bit of both.

Eldar [01:03:34]:
All right, cool. Because, like, I can engage your question with. With summoning your reason, and you'll then retrieve your question.

Toliy [01:03:41]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:03:42]:
You know what I'm saying?

Toliy [01:03:43]:
Yeah. D would like for you to summon my.

Mike [01:03:45]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:03:46]:
Summon your reason. Yeah, like, reason. I mean, no, I mean, like, what are you surprised about? I don't understand.

Toliy [01:03:51]:
No, I'm not surprised. I'm definitely. No, I'm not surprised by it, but, like, I'm. I was just more challenging. The fact about, like, the way he's talking about it is. Is, like, he's extremely convinced and extremely strong about it.

Eldar [01:04:05]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:04:05]:
And I think that anyone who talks in that kind of way about something like this, I. I think that it's a bit alarming. Like, not. Not that I'm not trying to, like.

Denis [01:04:14]:
No, no, no.

Toliy [01:04:15]:
I'm just saying that, like. Yeah, like, it's. It's. It's alarming.

Mike [01:04:20]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:04:22]:
That's not what I did at all.

Eldar [01:04:23]:
I was like.

Denis [01:04:24]:
All right, that's what I'm saying. Like, bro, like, you can't even have a conversation. Somebody comes, like, you know, I mean, it's a little bit.

Eldar [01:04:32]:
Yeah, sometimes I do have. No, no, for sure.

Denis [01:04:36]:
You're, like, having outbursts, like, just because I'm.

Toliy [01:04:37]:
God forbid.

Denis [01:04:38]:
God forbid. Somebody came in with a different concept than yours, and Mike is not learning it. Come on, bro.

Eldar [01:04:45]:
This is what I just. Spider, what you think?

Denis [01:04:49]:
Go ahead, say something again. Make it funny where I'm not gonna hear what I want. Yeah, I'm ready for it. Yeah.

Mike [01:04:54]:
We respect your thing, despite what you think.

Denis [01:04:56]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:04:56]:
I appreciate your take. You know what I'm saying?

Denis [01:04:59]:
Like, definitely.

Mike [01:05:00]:
However.

Eldar [01:05:01]:
However, your take brings out the outburst in me, and I'm having too much fun with it.

Toliy [01:05:06]:
But can you share why? Why it's bringing out the outburst?

Denis [01:05:09]:
That'd be great. Yeah.

Eldar [01:05:10]:
I mean, I. I think you guys are hearing the same stuff that I'm hearing, and it's just very funny to me.

Toliy [01:05:16]:
Yeah. So can you. Can you share exactly why the things that D is saying?

Denis [01:05:20]:
Everyone in the room can.

Mike [01:05:21]:
You can share. You can't share it. Just.

Eldar [01:05:23]:
I don't know what it's called.

Mike [01:05:24]:
It just is what it is.

Eldar [01:05:25]:
It's an interaction thing.

Toliy [01:05:26]:
Right.

Eldar [01:05:27]:
Like, he. I just said, like, he. You know, What I mean, like, I have experienced that. He kind of clearly had a little thing that the way you said something.

Denis [01:05:34]:
You weren't even looking at.

Eldar [01:05:34]:
He was, he was not okay with it because he had made a little noise. So I made a little comment.

Denis [01:05:39]:
That's what you weren't even looking at.

Eldar [01:05:40]:
Responding to me the way I did it.

Denis [01:05:43]:
I was listening to him and I'm like, huh? Okay, like, meaning, like I was listening to him.

Eldar [01:05:47]:
If you can't take that, you see, like I'm having fun and that's how I'm.

Denis [01:05:51]:
But that's what happened is you misreading 8 out of 10 things and then blowing it up. We're not even having a discussion about it. You're just trying to be the highlight reel to get a homeboy to laugh. My God, I don't get it. You know, then I misread it.

Eldar [01:06:04]:
Let's circle back to the, to the core of it.

Denis [01:06:06]:
Right?

Toliy [01:06:07]:
Yes.

Denis [01:06:07]:
Mike said go ahead, Go ahead.

Eldar [01:06:08]:
Sorry.

Toliy [01:06:09]:
I was saying that it, it's just, to me, it's alarming to hear how convinced you are about something not being possible. Like even. Because like even, like, even if you're not achieving it right now. I think just like it's, it's alarming to hear how much you've ruled like that. I'm not surprised by that. I'm not surprised by that. But like, it is alarming to hear about like how sure you are about limiting yourself to like doing something that like, I mean, like, in my mind it is possible. Right.

Toliy [01:06:44]:
Not that I have achieved that there or I'm there, but the way that you talk about it not being possible to me is just undermining. Like what actual potential and actual abilities you have to like, reason and to like, like find enjoyment. Find like, like, like control of your own destiny. Yeah. More control of like your life. Like for example, like even with your two day thing now. Right. It might be more enjoyable than doing it five days and going to the gym and doing all these different things.

Toliy [01:07:22]:
It's better. But I still think that like there is a next level version where it's like you actually like, why am I doing this? No, well, well, well, well, no, I think, I still think there are steps up from there of like. No, like, regardless of what it's doing, you physically actually enjoy doing it. Like, even though you may not be at that point now, I still think that like it's important to critically think in a way that that is still possible and figure out like, why. Yeah. Why you're not there. Like, what can you possibly do?

Eldar [01:07:56]:
Like, I wish that for him. I wish for him to get no 100%. He's not. He's not motivated by vanity, but he's voted by. Because he feels healthy from it.

Toliy [01:08:06]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:08:06]:
That's what I was going for.

Toliy [01:08:08]:
And, And I think that, like.

Eldar [01:08:09]:
Which I think is benefit to him. Yeah.

Toliy [01:08:11]:
And I think that, like, what, what proves that that is possible. Right. Is even, like, you're already improvements or transformation through it.

Eldar [01:08:20]:
Right.

Toliy [01:08:20]:
Because, like, if that world is not possible, then you, you, you. You probably would have just stopped at that. Like, you ought to go to the gym five days a week. And this is what it is. But there's still something in you that led you to believe that there is something different. Right. Like, and you kept revisions. Revisions and kept.

Eldar [01:08:39]:
Check this out.

Denis [01:08:40]:
There is no world in which, unless you really trying to hold on to the theory of. Let's say what some people do of like weightlifting is good for the joints, which it could be. Right. There is no world where the time now it's 66 minutes a week on the dot that I spend on weightlifting. There's no world where I can wholesomely justify that as it's just for my health. There's no world and it never will be. There's a reason I'm doing it. I like how I look and I most, most importantly, I like the side effect of how I feel.

Denis [01:09:14]:
But it's from the look standpoint, when I stop and I get a little small, I'm like, yeah, damn. Like, I like that version of Dennis better, and I do it to maintain it, but I found my medium and my balance. How much structure and discipline I am willing to exert for this.

Toliy [01:09:27]:
No, but by saying that. Also not lose it. Yes, but by saying that, you're also saying that there is no world where you cannot be driven by vanity.

Denis [01:09:35]:
No, no, no, no. Hold on. That's where. That's what I was getting to. That's where. That's what I'm not saying. Meaning if. If I really wanted to live with no vanity.

Toliy [01:09:46]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:09:46]:
I would not be lifting. I would be going for a run and being like a stick. But I'm. I'm healthy, I'm getting. I'm feeling good, whatever. Not running, whatever. Some swimming, whatever it is. Right.

Denis [01:09:56]:
I keep doing this thing because I was trying to from the beginning. It's just. It's just an example of. It's a physical pursuit. I'm not in the woods enlightened and sitting and trying to work on my mind and trying to just, I don't know, eat clean completely and not have sex and work on my mind and get to these points. Where is the enlightened journey? At least that's what, you know, Buddhists have outlined the Hindus, whatever else, all these things, they. There's a certain. There's a certain structure that you follow to get to that apparently.

Denis [01:10:22]:
Right. As far as the books and time has shown, let's say.

Toliy [01:10:26]:
Yeah, right.

Denis [01:10:27]:
In theory, I'm not following that. I'm living this life now. I'm living the. I'm living the sinful experience, whatever. Like, I'm not. I'm not. So therefore, what I'm saying is I'm trying to. Okay, if I'm still going to consciously pursue vanity in this example, I'm going to do it in a way where I bring a little bit of mindfulness in it, where it's like, yo, my man, you know, you were doing it because of xyz, you still want to do it? Okay, fine, but let's at least do it in a way where we're not, like, wasting our time on it.

Denis [01:10:56]:
And it's.

Toliy [01:10:56]:
No, no, but you can't. Like, do you believe that you can live in a world where you're not.

Denis [01:11:00]:
Pursuing vanity in this example? Overall, yes, of course. If I pursue.

Toliy [01:11:06]:
So then there is a world, but not.

Denis [01:11:08]:
Not in the world that I live in. No, no, I've seen that world. I've done that world, at least a glimpse.

Toliy [01:11:13]:
No, but it sounds like. It sounds like you might be suffering from the same thing that I'm suffering from in my examples. I, like, you maybe tried the enlightened path, but maybe, like I told you.

Eldar [01:11:23]:
The coconut path was. Was disappointing.

Denis [01:11:25]:
No.

Toliy [01:11:25]:
Yeah, I feel like you may have tried that.

Denis [01:11:27]:
What.

Toliy [01:11:27]:
What you're talking about, the enlightened path and the way that you were doing it did not work out for you. So I have given you PTSD into saying that, like, because you tried it and you could not do it. This is not possible for you.

Toliy [01:11:39]:
I hear what you're saying, and I know it could be easy to read that, especially with hype artists around, like, who highlight those things, but that's not what I'm saying to you. I agree. And there's no question that I cannot deny to you, looking you in your face and say that there's no PTSD. From my history, there's 100% IS. However, the topic here, I do not believe has to truly have to do with that. What I'm talking about is I'm just rather now tap into instead of talk about the perfectionist way, unless I fully devote my whole life to it. That way, if I'm still participating in this world, that means I'm going to be participating in some form or another. For example of this vanity lifting, there's a million other vanity lifters, right? Like, like there's just, in everyone's life, there's all these examples why someone wears a certain brand, why someone, you know, drives a certain car.

Denis [01:12:30]:
Why some of it, like we're still participating in this, let's call it the Matrix, right? So now the flow that I'm on and you're saying it's so strong is because it's like if I'm participating in it, let me bring a little bit of consciousness to it into understanding that, okay, like that's double yopsva, blah, blah, blah. But if I'm participating in certain, quote unquote, double Yopstra, let me at least find a manageable system in it. We can argue why the start is my man tried to make the argument that like, you ain't working out, you ain't taking care of your health or whatever because you just, you just don't like it.

Mike [01:12:57]:
No wonder.

Denis [01:12:58]:
But like, my argument is like on the other side of some things that we don't like. Also, human history has proven based on a lot of things that humans do. Like they overcome adversity, they overcome certain things, and then on the other side is something they accomplished, something that was like, wow, like, that was worth it. Look what I just did in the example of that, let's say for the, for your working out or whatever. Like I could take that approach and just say, yeah, you don't like it. You know, like you should just be focused on other things like that, blah, blah, blah.

Toliy [01:13:26]:
No, but I don't think that that's what, what he's saying.

Denis [01:13:29]:
That's why I wanted to like. Now let's elaborate on what exactly would be the application.

Mike [01:13:34]:
Finally, we're going to actually get some.

Denis [01:13:36]:
Clarity because my man over here decided to take shots at everything.

Mike [01:13:40]:
Well, yeah, you know what I mean?

Denis [01:13:41]:
And you know me, I'm not good with shots. I got.

Mike [01:13:43]:
Yeah, you got a big ego.

Toliy [01:13:44]:
Shut your mouth when you speak.

Eldar [01:13:45]:
I will, I will shut.

Denis [01:13:47]:
So, so tell me, how would, would you apply that to his example? Just to just the, let's say the working out, losing weight, whatever.

Mike [01:13:53]:
Yeah, he likes playing basketball, bro.

Denis [01:13:56]:
And basketball is, has side effects or.

Mike [01:13:59]:
No, basketball is cardio. It's good for, you know, if you want to lose weight.

Toliy [01:14:04]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:14:04]:
You can play basketball. He likes that. I mean, I didn't touch it.

Eldar [01:14:10]:
No, you didn't touch it.

Mike [01:14:11]:
No, no, no, no, no. It's Teddy.

Eldar [01:14:14]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:14:14]:
This is the broken one anyway. This is the one that's not, like. Doesn't stay in place. Oh, fine.

Denis [01:14:21]:
Yeah, go ahead.

Mike [01:14:22]:
Yeah. I'm saying. I'm not saying him not to work out, not to be healthy. I'm just trying to find a way that he actually wants to. Maybe it's two days a week. Maybe he's going to fall in love with rock climbing or bike riding or tugging stones up a mound or World's Strongest Man. But until you find a way to do what you like that, and for the right reasons, because the most important thing is the right reasons. I rather stay, you know, overweight than force myself to lose weight in a process where I'm Feel miserable.

Eldar [01:14:56]:
Mike, you might be a reincarnation of Aristotle. He talked a lot about happiness, but continue. So I just wanted to.

Mike [01:15:01]:
Yeah. Thank you. Inshallah. Yeah. So. And I think that's the approach that we should have. We should do the things that we want to do. You want.

Mike [01:15:10]:
Everybody here wants to make money, right? We want to make money, live in society, have a house, have a family, potentially kids, right?

Eldar [01:15:17]:
Well, no, no, no. We're talking about if you want to have fun. And the things that you want to do is have fun.

Mike [01:15:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:24]:
Right.

Mike [01:15:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:25]:
You can do them without money. Would you. Would you not?

Mike [01:15:27]:
You probably could. You could. Probably could.

Eldar [01:15:30]:
No, I'm just saying, would you be okay with not making money but still be able to do all those things without having to make money?

Toliy [01:15:34]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:35]:
You would.

Mike [01:15:35]:
If I could find the approach. Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:36]:
The only reason why you're saying what you're saying about making money.

Mike [01:15:39]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:15:39]:
Is because you want to be able to do things with money.

Mike [01:15:42]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:15:43]:
That makes you have fun.

Mike [01:15:44]:
Right. But I also wanted. As I'm making the money, I like to have fun in the process as well. I'm trying to double dip.

Eldar [01:15:51]:
If you were gonna go into the process of making money. Yeah. Would also like.

Mike [01:15:54]:
I'd like to double dip.

Eldar [01:15:55]:
Great.

Mike [01:15:56]:
You know, and that's what I'm saying. I think that for some people, that's.

Eldar [01:16:00]:
Not possible or feasible.

Mike [01:16:02]:
Yes. Because they don't believe in those.

Eldar [01:16:04]:
No.

Mike [01:16:05]:
Understood. Yeah. I believe that there is a way to do. Accomplish these multitude of different things.

Denis [01:16:12]:
Why is nobody in this room doing that then?

Eldar [01:16:15]:
Whoa.

Mike [01:16:15]:
Have you surveyed everybody?

Eldar [01:16:17]:
Whoa.

Mike [01:16:18]:
Oh, well, I guess we're just retards.

Denis [01:16:21]:
Well, no, like, don't make it. Like I'm asking. Like, it's an actual. Like, you keep battling me by saying, yo, you just. You. You're shot. You're not. You're not conscious.

Denis [01:16:28]:
You're just giving up online. And I'm saying, like, yo, like, where's the. Where's the blueprint for this?

Eldar [01:16:34]:
Or anyone said this quote, if you're so smart, why are you so poor?

Mike [01:16:38]:
Yeah, yeah.

Denis [01:16:39]:
Like, I know you.

Eldar [01:16:41]:
All right?

Denis [01:16:41]:
Like. Like, I'm asking, like, asking real questions.

Mike [01:16:45]:
Yeah. Well, first of all, there has to.

Denis [01:16:47]:
Be a blueprint here where either someone's doing it, someone you know is doing it, or.

Eldar [01:16:52]:
Or.

Mike [01:16:52]:
Or, I don't know, like, any examples. I love you. You probably wouldn't believe.

Eldar [01:16:56]:
Yeah. First of all, you wouldn't.

Denis [01:16:57]:
I mean, like, see, like, you're just. I love that being the.

Eldar [01:17:00]:
You dispute.

Toliy [01:17:01]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:17:01]:
You wouldn't actually take.

Eldar [01:17:02]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:17:03]:
Person's word for it.

Toliy [01:17:04]:
But. Okay, you're saying that based on what Mike is saying, like, having fun with things that, like, based on this concept and this idea of it that, like, in order for him to say that or in order for him to strive to it, he needs to encompass it in all parts of his life. Right. Right now. Like.

Eldar [01:17:21]:
Like.

Toliy [01:17:22]:
Like, is that, like, what.

Denis [01:17:23]:
No, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that if individuals that on this specific. Some. Sometimes this time it's not. You on this specific side of the couch speak so strongly about diminishing everything else, they better have some things to prove. You know what I mean? If they're not bringing that energy, then of course we can.

Toliy [01:17:41]:
Like, what would be enough? So, like, for example.

Eldar [01:17:45]:
That's a deep question right there.

Toliy [01:17:46]:
So, like, for example, would there. Would there. Like, when it comes to proof for you. Right. Would it be like, you accomplishing that in, like, one aspect of your life, or is it like, you have to do it in all. All ways right away for it. For you to speak strongly in that kind of way?

Eldar [01:18:01]:
Before you finish that question, by any chance, are you experiencing anxiety right now?

Toliy [01:18:07]:
Right now?

Eldar [01:18:07]:
No. Oh, just. Just one intermission.

Mike [01:18:10]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:18:11]:
Yeah. No, T. It's just when you. You guys concept.

Eldar [01:18:15]:
You said it is.

Toliy [01:18:16]:
Can you answer that? I'm trying.

Mike [01:18:19]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:18:22]:
Yeah. I mean. Yeah.

Eldar [01:18:23]:
So.

Denis [01:18:26]:
You talked about building a life where you do what you want. You. You said a specific thing here. You didn't say, do one thing in my life that I. You know what I mean? Do what I want.

Toliy [01:18:35]:
Yes.

Denis [01:18:36]:
And that's when I said to. That I don't see it as possible.

Toliy [01:18:39]:
Yes.

Denis [01:18:40]:
That all things that I do that you. You mentioned in an extreme, which I. Which I just simply don't believe in, because I think there's also the way that the world is kind of set up in terms of even nature. Like, everything is working and moving. These ants are working, these. These animals, these trees. Everything is working. Like, you can't, like, like, outrun work.

Denis [01:18:57]:
It's built in a way where, like, if we work, there's. There's results and things get done. Now, the hack is to, of course, find something that you enjoy and try to do as much of that as possible. But is it possible to just build a life of just that? No, I don't think so. And I think that probably leads.

Toliy [01:19:14]:
Can you answer that question, though, when you.

Eldar [01:19:16]:
When.

Mike [01:19:16]:
When you're.

Toliy [01:19:17]:
When. I guess you're challenging Mike for proof, Right. Do you need proof that, like, you need proof that, like, this is encompassing all of his life and that's actively being practiced right now, or do you need proof of, like. Like you were doing something you didn't enjoy.

Eldar [01:19:30]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:19:30]:
And you actually examined it?

Denis [01:19:32]:
That would be into it. That would be a different conversation from what you guys were talking about.

Toliy [01:19:36]:
No, no, but, like, you need to.

Eldar [01:19:40]:
Alignment.

Toliy [01:19:43]:
Do you agree that, like, if Mike is saying that.

Eldar [01:19:45]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:19:46]:
And let's say he might have. I don't know. Let's just say he has five examples. He. He has five examples for you. Right. But, like, definitely, it doesn't mean that there's.

Denis [01:19:54]:
What do you mean? Ban.

Eldar [01:19:56]:
They upset him?

Mike [01:19:58]:
Well, yeah.

Toliy [01:19:59]:
Yeah. I'm not gonna lie. I agree with that.

Eldar [01:20:01]:
Whoa.

Toliy [01:20:02]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:20:03]:
Can I say something for the record? Can I say something for the record?

Eldar [01:20:06]:
Yo.

Denis [01:20:07]:
Can I say something for the record?

Eldar [01:20:08]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:20:08]:
We having a dialogue, right?

Eldar [01:20:10]:
Like, yeah.

Denis [01:20:10]:
Like, at the end of the day, I thought, I know you're having fun by doing what you're doing, but, like, if you're saying something, you can also, like, say it to me instead of saying it on the side.

Eldar [01:20:18]:
This is true.

Denis [01:20:19]:
When you say it on the side, it creates the comical thing that you enjoy for sure. But, like, it also kind of ruins the. Like, you're demeaning the conversation. Demeaning the other person, which is me. You know what I mean? Like, and then we're not able to even, like, rationally have, like, okay, let's get to the bottom of it. It just becomes like a. Yeah. You know, like, you're an idiot.

Denis [01:20:37]:
I'm smart and, like, I'm just gonna keep making psychology.

Mike [01:20:40]:
I'd like to have A serious conversation.

Denis [01:20:41]:
No, if you guys are trying to have a conversation that's serious, then that's what it. Like, otherwise, you know.

Mike [01:20:46]:
No, but I think you took it.

Denis [01:20:47]:
Like here in this encounter is like, yo, D, yo, D, did they. I don't. Did your path hurt you? Blah, blah, blah. That's the right way to do it. No, this way is just like, oh.

Eldar [01:20:56]:
No, for sure, D. You're not gonna.

Denis [01:20:58]:
Get me anymore on your pat on your page.

Eldar [01:21:00]:
I know what I'm doing, you know, I mean, like, like I know, you know, I used to be the call out guy. Like, I wouldn't raise my hand. I'll just call things out. I'm throwing out clues into the world to see what sticks, you know what I'm saying? Like, and yeah, it could be a little bit rude and I acknowledge that. So if I hurt anybody's feelings, it's all about effort.

Denis [01:21:15]:
Forget the feelings. A character like me, bro, this is like. You talk about 11 years of working out. It's 11 years of this working out. I've been working out working out with you. I've been working out with you for. For all the same as my workout. There's no.

Denis [01:21:30]:
But I'm talking about efficacy, right? If we're sitting in this podcast, right? And there's four individuals and let's say one is really not agreeing with the three, let's say, right? But if we're trying to get to a place where we can align or that person maybe is not seeing something, there's a efficacy.

Toliy [01:21:44]:
There's.

Denis [01:21:45]:
There's efficacy in terms of how to do it, right? That way that you're doing doesn't. My opinion doesn't work, right? Because I'm not.

Eldar [01:21:52]:
Because then I'm just like, owe you an apology.

Denis [01:21:54]:
No, definitely not. I'm just saying that, like in terms of this, these, these dialogues, like, if you want results.

Toliy [01:22:01]:
I did just fart.

Eldar [01:22:02]:
Yeah, you farted.

Toliy [01:22:03]:
I did just fart.

Eldar [01:22:04]:
He smelled it.

Toliy [01:22:05]:
No, like, I farted probably 15 seconds before he went to smell. So maybe he got lured by this.

Mike [01:22:10]:
This is not a human guys that's smelling his ass. Just keep that in mind.

Toliy [01:22:14]:
Yo, we situation at the gym. Do you tell this or no?

Eldar [01:22:19]:
You're being rude right now because he was.

Toliy [01:22:21]:
No, I have to say this because it's so funny. Okay, Me and Mike are in the locker room and it's me, Mike and then one old guy who always host the pool, right? And then me, Mike are talking and this is when his parents are away and he goes, mike Mike's. Mike's like, yeah, I have to get home because Teddy's in the cage. And the guy goes, I hope Teddy's not a person.

Denis [01:22:41]:
Yeah, that's funny.

Toliy [01:22:44]:
Yeah, because, like, Teddy could easily be, like, an actual person's name. And he's like, yeah, I gotta get home because Teddy's by himself in the cage.

Mike [01:22:51]:
And the guy just turns, he goes.

Toliy [01:22:53]:
I hope Teddy's not a person.

Eldar [01:22:55]:
Like a random person.

Denis [01:22:56]:
Like a random person.

Eldar [01:22:58]:
Yeah, random guy at the gym.

Mike [01:22:59]:
And then.

Toliy [01:22:59]:
And then, like, me and Mike started to laugh about him.

Eldar [01:23:01]:
He's hiding behind the pole. Look, Teddy, he's hiding behind the pole. It's okay.

Denis [01:23:08]:
Yeah. So I wish I don't remember what you said, but I wish. My point of what I was saying is I wish that you said what you said about. I remember what you said.

Eldar [01:23:16]:
I can repeat it.

Denis [01:23:17]:
I wish you said it in a constructive way.

Toliy [01:23:19]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:23:19]:
Then me as the. Let's say how he's saying.

Eldar [01:23:21]:
Strong. Be able to.

Denis [01:23:22]:
Strong on the other side can say, okay, cool. Like.

Eldar [01:23:24]:
Yeah, all right.

Toliy [01:23:25]:
Well, I think he's saying he'd like to participate in a conversation with you, but because you're an asshole, he can't.

Denis [01:23:30]:
No, he would, like, you leave no room saying that you leave no margin.

Toliy [01:23:34]:
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Mike [01:23:39]:
You.

Eldar [01:23:40]:
Yes.

Denis [01:23:40]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:23:42]:
Okay. Are you.

Denis [01:23:43]:
You leave no margin for this?

Toliy [01:23:44]:
Yes, that's what he's saying. Like, he would like to participate in a conversation with you, but you make it very difficult to have that.

Eldar [01:23:51]:
Okay, guys, I am not totally. Am I saying anything that was not in. In accordance of what you guys were talking about? I've been. I'm just removing the pieces and throwing them in the air because of the fact that you.

Toliy [01:24:04]:
Yeah, but he feels you're being an asshole.

Eldar [01:24:06]:
You produced it.

Toliy [01:24:07]:
Yeah, but he feels like you're being an ass way in which. Which.

Denis [01:24:10]:
Which you're being mean stops the conversation dead in its tracks. It's not about me. Like, of course you want to use the mean short.

Eldar [01:24:18]:
If. If I want an apology, I would tell.

Denis [01:24:20]:
I would give you an apology, but.

Eldar [01:24:21]:
As you know, I would give him an apology, but I want an apology if I'm being mean.

Denis [01:24:25]:
But again, it's. Let's do. Let's be blunt, let's be blunt. It's all that. It's mean, it's rude, it's deceiving. It's. What's the. Not deceive.

Denis [01:24:34]:
It.

Toliy [01:24:34]:
It's. Yeah.

Denis [01:24:35]:
Undermine.

Toliy [01:24:36]:
He feels that it's difficult to have dialogue with you in the way that You're.

Denis [01:24:39]:
But that's not the point. Who gives a. About that?

Mike [01:24:41]:
I. Yeah, that's sick.

Eldar [01:24:43]:
I didn't even think all the way back.

Denis [01:24:45]:
It's. It's too. My. My. My. My skin.

Toliy [01:24:49]:
Thank you. How about we start with the hug?

Denis [01:24:51]:
No.

Eldar [01:24:51]:
No problem.

Denis [01:24:53]:
Just calm down, like sitting there. We're not in that point.

Mike [01:24:57]:
You know what I mean?

Eldar [01:24:57]:
This is.

Toliy [01:24:58]:
Okay, you have to apologize more before. Before you can get there.

Denis [01:25:00]:
Well, my point is, is that the dialogue gets. Gets undermined and that's. That's what happens as opposed to if you bring in this topic.

Eldar [01:25:07]:
Like.

Denis [01:25:07]:
Okay, now I just. See, even with this, I forgot what he was saying when you said the. I think that Enlightenment. He gave up on that because of the coconuts. Yeah, I would love to rebuttal that or. Or talk about it.

Eldar [01:25:17]:
Please do.

Denis [01:25:18]:
But I don't remember now what he.

Toliy [01:25:19]:
Said because you ruined the moment because.

Denis [01:25:21]:
You make it like a big joke. And you do this every time where it's like, you know, and then Big Mikey is. Gets.

Eldar [01:25:27]:
Maybe I'm trying. Maybe in that way I'll kind of save him. No.

Toliy [01:25:30]:
What? No, but why are you trying to save me?

Eldar [01:25:33]:
Like, so he doesn't have to get into it. Because, like, clearly you were coming.

Denis [01:25:42]:
See, that's what. Yeah. So then you guys really shouldn't have guests on at all because.

Toliy [01:25:48]:
No, no, no.

Denis [01:25:48]:
Just this one line that you just said.

Eldar [01:25:50]:
I didn't say anything.

Denis [01:25:52]:
Listen, try to save me the fort. This is the. I'm glad you said that. The problem with that is you're coming in already thinking your shit don't stink. So, like, when I'm giving this example.

Eldar [01:26:03]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:26:03]:
And I was even trying to use a completely different aspect to it where I'm trying to say, like, yes, it's. It's. It's vanity, blah, blah, blah. But I wasn't even trying to bring the. Health versus vanity. You're trying to do 20 steps ahead because you're always trying to play chess. You're always trying to be a little smarter than the next guy like me, you know, the next guy like me. You know, the problem is you skip forward to what you think and this and that of how you already.

Denis [01:26:23]:
Yeah, bro, that's light work.

Mike [01:26:23]:
That's over.

Denis [01:26:24]:
Blah, blah. And then you don't let actually see the other perspective where, like, you might not even be understanding it. And here you're telling me like, hey, like, the reason I'm doing that is because I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to save you. The foot.

Eldar [01:26:36]:
No, I just.

Denis [01:26:37]:
You already ruling me out?

Eldar [01:26:39]:
No, I asked a question about.

Denis [01:26:40]:
So somebody's having a discussion. Come on, bro, stop.

Eldar [01:26:45]:
About saving you was a question. I don't know that's actually happening. I don't believe that. Believe what?

Denis [01:26:51]:
Come on.

Eldar [01:26:51]:
That I'm saving him by throwing out.

Denis [01:26:53]:
Clues and the p. The.

Mike [01:26:55]:
The.

Toliy [01:26:55]:
The.

Denis [01:26:55]:
The.

Toliy [01:26:55]:
For doing that.

Eldar [01:26:57]:
Bury you when I throw out those clues.

Denis [01:26:58]:
Yes, bro, I'm talking about save you from. From going. Conversation of the stuff that you're going to random.

Toliy [01:27:07]:
Yeah, but your jester waves are not productive.

Eldar [01:27:09]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:27:10]:
Anyways, all right. You know, like.

Eldar [01:27:12]:
Yeah, that's.

Denis [01:27:13]:
That's my. On a side note, that's my thought. That's why this is. People come in the other cat.

Mike [01:27:17]:
You know what I mean?

Denis [01:27:18]:
What's his name? They're not able to. Even though I didn't agree with him either. They're not people not able to. With you guys. You guys are in line. You got one thought current. That's great. We talked about that.

Eldar [01:27:27]:
That's a beautiful dirty parent.

Denis [01:27:29]:
But if you. I didn't mean that as a. I wasn't here. I wasn't taking a shot. I'm saying you on the same thought current of like, this is how we see life. This is how we want to pursue it. And that's great. But if you bring in other individuals in be.

Denis [01:27:43]:
It's me or the. All these guests that be courteous, which you open the door to them.

Eldar [01:27:47]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:27:47]:
You have to. You have to be. Forget the word courteous. You have to be open minded to allowing those thoughts, those thought currents to be expressed in a constructive way. Otherwise you're just undermining those people. And those people are just gonna be like, all right, well, this is. And me even listening back. A lot of people feel where they're like, all right, well, you're not letting me.

Denis [01:28:05]:
All right, well, okay, well, that's not what I was saying. And then. And then it just dies and becomes that. Well, like, it's not a. You know what I mean? But if you're saying, yo, this is a podcast about one thought current and that's it. Keep the door closed. Other people shouldn't come in.

Mike [01:28:18]:
But yeah.

Eldar [01:28:19]:
Yeah. My question would be in order, if you want to have a conversation about it, you're under impression that we have to. Have to. We have to.

Denis [01:28:26]:
No, you don't have to do anything. I said you have to.

Toliy [01:28:27]:
I'm saying.

Eldar [01:28:28]:
You just said you have to. You have to give other people.

Denis [01:28:30]:
No, no, no, you have to. If you, if you like, if you would like to create a construct where like other thought currents can come in and have a reasonable debate. Have to. To have a reasonable debate. If you don't want a reasonable debate.

Eldar [01:28:42]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:28:42]:
You can do whatever you want 100%. That's my. You know, you don't have to do anything.

Eldar [01:28:46]:
I know that. I know better than to tell you.

Mike [01:28:50]:
Got to do something.

Eldar [01:28:51]:
Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad. But anyways, maybe this is just an example of that. What you're talking about.

Denis [01:28:57]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:28:59]:
Or you. What you want an example of which.

Denis [01:29:01]:
Is what I'm not. I'm not even following.

Eldar [01:29:03]:
Once some people are doing something that they really like and enjoying themselves in the process.

Denis [01:29:08]:
Yeah, no, I definitely know you enjoy it. You know, you enjoy a lot of things at the expensive waters, though that's a topic for another day.

Eldar [01:29:17]:
Like what's happening.

Mike [01:29:18]:
You're a parent.

Toliy [01:29:20]:
Why do you say it like that?

Mike [01:29:21]:
Right.

Toliy [01:29:21]:
I get paid a lot of money to be there. You guys have been enjoying it at my expense for a long time.

Denis [01:29:28]:
Yeah. But anyway, the whole. I guess we can move on back.

Mike [01:29:32]:
The whole thing is that.

Eldar [01:29:33]:
Yeah, no, let's.

Denis [01:29:33]:
No, I mean.

Mike [01:29:34]:
No.

Eldar [01:29:34]:
Why say like that?

Mike [01:29:35]:
No, he doesn't believe.

Eldar [01:29:36]:
No, he's. No, he has a good argument.

Mike [01:29:39]:
Don't.

Denis [01:29:39]:
Don't try to like pat me on the back now.

Toliy [01:29:40]:
You know what I mean?

Eldar [01:29:41]:
Like why it's bad argument.

Denis [01:29:43]:
Come. You know, you don't agree that it's a good argument.

Eldar [01:29:45]:
You know, I agree that in the place that you're right, it's a good argument.

Mike [01:29:55]:
Mike, I have to.

Eldar [01:29:55]:
I have to be quiet. You have to Hank off my mouth, bro.

Mike [01:29:58]:
Yeah, I see that. Like that.

Eldar [01:30:01]:
You know what I'm saying?

Denis [01:30:03]:
Nothing but be yourself. We all got to be ourselves, you know. Yeah. I just want to bring back to the initial. Yeah, you said.

Eldar [01:30:15]:
Yo.

Denis [01:30:16]:
It's not. You're bringing up examples of how it could be possible for him to bridge the gap, but that he doesn't. But initially you said he doesn't like to do it. That's why xyz. My argument is. Is in the process of weight loss. And actually you've experienced that yourself. I know now you're trying to use the other philosophy of like, now I'm not ever losing weight unless I love how I do it or whatever, which is a noble pursuit.

Denis [01:30:37]:
But is it a middle ground, realistic pursuit? I just don't know. Time will tell. Yeah, again, that's the problem is we have no data to show that yet. In that. In that there is.

Mike [01:30:50]:
That is to show the first failure. But that doesn't really matter for you.

Denis [01:30:55]:
If his pursuit was that a failure.

Eldar [01:30:57]:
What do you mean? If his pursuit to lose weight, to get an end goal, which he did not meet, that was a fail. Yes or no?

Denis [01:31:07]:
When you say end goal, I don't know what you mean by angle.

Eldar [01:31:10]:
If he has an end goal. Right. Yeah. He's like, okay, cool, I'm gonna get to this end goal. If I lose weight. He lost weight and didn't get the end goal. Was it a successful pursuit or not?

Denis [01:31:20]:
By end goal, you're talking about a woman.

Eldar [01:31:23]:
I could be whatever. I could be whatever. Let's. Let's assume it's a woman.

Denis [01:31:27]:
Yeah. Well, so then you'd have to. To answer your question, I think then it would be. Have to depend on what is the end goal.

Eldar [01:31:33]:
Right.

Denis [01:31:33]:
So, like, if I'm looking at him.

Eldar [01:31:35]:
Let'S do a woman.

Denis [01:31:35]:
We're talking about goal of just feeling good and liking what you see in the mirror or whatever his thoughts are. You know what I mean? Like, he talk like, whatever it is. You know what I mean? If it's that, let's do a woman.

Mike [01:31:48]:
Let's do a woman.

Denis [01:31:49]:
Well, yeah, I mean, that's a different.

Eldar [01:31:51]:
Like you said, hey, I'm doing my biceps. I'm doing workout. Because it's vanity.

Mike [01:31:55]:
Get the guys and girls. Get the girls. What they say.

Toliy [01:31:59]:
What?

Eldar [01:32:01]:
Yes. Men admire women. Desire. I heard about that. Yeah, of course. No, let's. Let's explore what you're saying here with Mike's situation about the fact that, look, his end goal was not met, like I said. Right.

Eldar [01:32:13]:
The way he lost weight. And now he wants to change the way he wants to lose weight. If he wants to lose weight for a different reason. Right. And he's not willing to do that.

Denis [01:32:20]:
I can agree with.

Eldar [01:32:21]:
He clearly failed at his end goal. He thought, if I lose weight, if A, then B. Yeah. And B didn't happen. Yeah. Right. So you would think that the person who's now who wants to lose weight still would have a different reason to lose weight because he can no longer lose weight and get a girl. Let's just say that was the end goal.

Eldar [01:32:42]:
Correct.

Denis [01:32:43]:
But then we. Okay, I agree. Fundamentally, you agree with the logic if.

Eldar [01:32:48]:
A, then B, if A didn't happen.

Denis [01:32:50]:
But then we have to also examine.

Eldar [01:32:52]:
He didn't do it your way. Yeah, go ahead.

Denis [01:32:54]:
How long did he. Let's say, stay skinny or whatever. How long was that?

Eldar [01:33:01]:
I cannot answer that question. Because I'm not here.

Denis [01:33:03]:
How long was that?

Mike [01:33:04]:
Totally skinny. Sorry.

Denis [01:33:08]:
Thank you.

Eldar [01:33:10]:
Please. Water? Yes, yes.

Denis [01:33:12]:
You know, like, I agree with the foundation of if.

Eldar [01:33:16]:
How long did it usually take?

Denis [01:33:18]:
Well, I don't know. I mean, like, if he. If you. You're saying, like, he reached it, he didn't get it. Like, if it was like, I don't know, like.

Eldar [01:33:23]:
Well, how long. How long does it usually take?

Denis [01:33:25]:
Like, I mean, now you have to factor in other things where it's like.

Eldar [01:33:28]:
If a person who clearly is saying time. If bringing time into equation, I would think that you probably have some kind of like, like maybe six months, maybe two years.

Denis [01:33:39]:
Where am I bringing. I want to be clear in case I said it. Remind me, what do you mean top bringing timing?

Eldar [01:33:43]:
You the one who just asked the question, how long was he?

Mike [01:33:46]:
Right.

Eldar [01:33:46]:
Skinny.

Denis [01:33:47]:
Right. To the equation of how long?

Eldar [01:33:49]:
Is that not bringing in time into the conversation or not?

Denis [01:33:52]:
Yes, but not. I thought you. I thought you were saying that, like, I'm bringing time into the fact, like, he didn't succeed.

Eldar [01:33:57]:
Only if you're asking that type of question. Totally. If you're asking that type of question, how long Would you not assume that the individual who's asking that type of question would also then can advise on how long it usually takes? Or like, hey, hold on a second.

Denis [01:34:12]:
It seems like anybody that has six months. And usually you.

Eldar [01:34:16]:
You weren't under. You were under the wrong impression because in order to get a girl usually takes two years. Dude.

Denis [01:34:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:34:24]:
Don't do it. Right.

Denis [01:34:25]:
I don't know how you deduce that.

Eldar [01:34:26]:
No, I'm not deducing.

Denis [01:34:27]:
You said a person. You said a person.

Eldar [01:34:29]:
Yeah. Go word for word.

Denis [01:34:30]:
A person totally isn't a person who brings up a question about time.

Eldar [01:34:35]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:34:36]:
Insinuating that he's going to have the answer about how much time it takes. Now we're. We're insinuating that. Anybody who asks a question is insinuating that.

Eldar [01:34:44]:
So why are you asking this question?

Denis [01:34:46]:
Maybe you ask him questions for the answer.

Eldar [01:34:48]:
Sure. Then. Then help me here. Help me.

Denis [01:34:50]:
Why am I asking a question? Leave me a very good question.

Eldar [01:34:52]:
Go ahead.

Denis [01:34:53]:
You. You brought up the topic about Mike and the girl.

Eldar [01:34:55]:
Right.

Denis [01:34:56]:
And I'm like, okay, cool. I need to know more about it. Let me ask these questions. How long was it for this?

Eldar [01:35:00]:
And your first question was about time.

Denis [01:35:02]:
The problem is you ask questions for the purpose of, like, you know the answer already. Some people just ask me questions like, all right, I don't know. Let me. Let me think about what you're talking about.

Eldar [01:35:11]:
Let me ask the question. Something's telling me that you. On the one assumption, but if you're not gonna. No, but tell me, why did you ask the question?

Denis [01:35:19]:
We hit the road.

Eldar [01:35:19]:
Why did you ask the question?

Denis [01:35:20]:
Because I. Because you asking me like, yo, what about this? What about the girl with the weight? I'm like, okay, cool. Like. And what are the first things I say? I said fundamentally, I agree, but I'm like, all right, but let's find out more detail.

Eldar [01:35:31]:
Go ahead. Let's get the details, the time.

Denis [01:35:33]:
But once again, why are you asking.

Eldar [01:35:35]:
The question about time?

Denis [01:35:36]:
The details.

Eldar [01:35:37]:
Can you please look where we're at? Can you please help me?

Denis [01:35:39]:
You know what I mean? We're in another place, another conundrum.

Eldar [01:35:42]:
Can you help me?

Denis [01:35:42]:
It doesn't look like I don't think what you want. I'm not going to be able to provide.

Eldar [01:35:46]:
Can you help me? Explain to me why he asked the question about time. How long were you skinny for? Can you explain?

Mike [01:35:52]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:35:53]:
Why?

Mike [01:35:53]:
Because there's a time that things get done.

Eldar [01:35:56]:
Great.

Mike [01:35:57]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:35:59]:
Okay, so there you go. So you are. You are saying the same stuff. You might be parroting what I said earlier.

Toliy [01:36:04]:
Well, are you able to answer the question? D. Why is that, like, a question of importance?

Denis [01:36:09]:
He brought up the woman.

Toliy [01:36:10]:
Yes.

Denis [01:36:11]:
As the end goal of the weight loss. I'm like, okay, that's a good concept.

Eldar [01:36:15]:
Right?

Denis [01:36:15]:
I said, fundamentally, I agree. If it was for that, that's not a good thing. But then I'm like, all right, cool. But let me ask about it. Because I don't know how long he was. He's like, if he got it.

Eldar [01:36:24]:
And why is that important? Totally keep asking that.

Denis [01:36:27]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:36:28]:
No, no, but do you agree. Do you agree that you have to.

Denis [01:36:33]:
Are you saying I'm not allowed to do it? How can.

Toliy [01:36:36]:
No, I'm saying, do you agree that you need to have an explanation why you're asking this question?

Denis [01:36:40]:
But if the person's not allowed to give this.

Toliy [01:36:42]:
Okay, so are you other. Can you allow him to do it?

Eldar [01:36:45]:
No, clearly not.

Denis [01:36:46]:
You know what I'm saying? Like. Like, bro, if we're having a conversation, right?

Mike [01:36:50]:
And.

Denis [01:36:50]:
And a question is asked before the. I mean, I literally could go back. I think it's in some of the interests that people are saying, like, every time, like, can you let me think. Captain's like, can you. Can you let them finish? Can you let Michelle finish? What's up, Michelle? Let me finish. Or. Or a daughter Vermeer.

Eldar [01:37:05]:
Can I.

Denis [01:37:05]:
No, hold on, let me finish. It's you. You can't have a dialogue. Is he's asking me about.

Toliy [01:37:11]:
All right, so he's not here right now. Sure. Can you tell me why you asked.

Denis [01:37:14]:
Why you asked the question. And in the process of answering that question, you interrupt the person three more times by giving your new insight as to why he's really like t. You know why he's asking. It's like, okay, he might just be rude, but that's. That's the problem here is like if you guys are again also shooting for enlightenment. Right.

Eldar [01:37:31]:
If that's what we're talking.

Mike [01:37:32]:
We're not talking about these surface level.

Denis [01:37:34]:
Things that demonic participation.

Eldar [01:37:36]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:37:36]:
Shouldn't there be certain strives for that too to have constructive conversations?

Toliy [01:37:40]:
Maybe like, yo. But he's not able to.

Mike [01:37:43]:
I'm mad smart and you're mad though. Okay.

Toliy [01:37:45]:
Can you answer the question though, D. Because we're just talking about this more than the explanation.

Denis [01:37:50]:
Fantastic. Yes. He asked. He started talking about this like, what about this?

Toliy [01:37:53]:
Yes, I know. Can you ask. Can you answer the question?

Denis [01:37:56]:
Why did you doing it right now?

Toliy [01:37:57]:
Well, because you're explaining something that like, I don't need to hear. I just want to hear. Why did you ask this question?

Denis [01:38:02]:
I asked the question to understand more about what happened in that particular example that he is bringing up in regards to 100%.

Toliy [01:38:10]:
But why did that question. Why do you need to ask that question in particular? Like, you're not going to ask him, like in this pursuit, like, Mike, did you drive a red or a blue car?

Denis [01:38:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:38:20]:
So.

Toliy [01:38:21]:
Because that would probably be a meaningless question. That would not help you learn for.

Denis [01:38:25]:
Sure if I asked a red or a blue car. But if there's a. A subject here which is about losing weight and I am asking as a follow up, what was the duration of that? I know what you my man. Like, I'm not. I know what you're getting at. I know what he's getting with from the beginning. It's like, yo, he's asking this question because he has the, like, it's going to be a duration. You just didn't work hard enough at it.

Mike [01:38:45]:
So can you.

Denis [01:38:46]:
But I'm asking know. I'm asking about it.

Mike [01:38:50]:
Oh, yeah, yeah. But he already admitted that he's, you.

Denis [01:38:54]:
Know, I mean, I guess I got to just. I guess I got to overstep it and just keep going. Yeah. How long I'm going to ask it anyways. The reason why I'm asking is I'm trying to get context Clues on the situation to understand better what went on. Cuz I don't remember.

Eldar [01:39:08]:
I remember.

Mike [01:39:09]:
Answer. What's the question?

Eldar [01:39:11]:
The question. How wor skinny for Mike?

Mike [01:39:14]:
Okay, a year.

Eldar [01:39:15]:
A year? About a year.

Denis [01:39:18]:
But again, now it's like, I'm derailed after 10 minutes of battling. Just like, it's like, now I, I would, I would. What you brought up. Yeah, this topic.

Mike [01:39:31]:
How long I was skinny.

Denis [01:39:33]:
It's not. At this point, I would love to.

Eldar [01:39:35]:
Know myself, but I couldn't get to it.

Mike [01:39:36]:
Yeah, yeah. Well, you asked the question. Okay.

Denis [01:39:39]:
The idea of it was I was trying to understand how long because I'm trying to understand the whole concept. And in that question, I'm trying to understand. Okay, cool. Like, so were you skinny for a day and you just got to a day and you're like, I didn't get a girl yet. Okay, go back.

Mike [01:39:51]:
I'm like, all right.

Toliy [01:39:52]:
I'm trying to understand.

Denis [01:39:54]:
I don't know what you like, you know what I'm saying? So that's the question. If it was like for a month, let's make it more realistic or two. And you're like, I didn't get my goal. Therefore I'm ruling out the fact that, okay, doing it this way was wrong and that's it. And I'm gonna go back and go back to sub zero and then try again for a different, better reason. Like, I'm trying to understand, like, how long was it for? This is that that's what the question was about. I might, by the way, now it's a little. Again, diluted.

Denis [01:40:18]:
But the question was not like an emphasis. Like, yeah, bro, well, how long did you do it for? Like, it wasn't even now. Like, all right, well, let's. Let's find out, like, how long was it for? But it got diluted 10 minutes later. Here we are. Where it's like, no one even has any desire to even at least me to go forward with it. Where it's like, initially, it's like, all right, cool. I said, yo, fundamentally, I agree, let's talk about it.

Denis [01:40:36]:
But here we are. And again, it's the same thing with you guys, where it's like, specifically, you eat, bro. You the culprit. To be honest, these guys are your win game. To be honest.

Eldar [01:40:43]:
No. Before we continue, he's on the phone. Do I owe you an apology?

Denis [01:40:49]:
You definitely don't owe me.

Eldar [01:40:51]:
Okay. Would you like to apology?

Denis [01:40:54]:
It's not about apology. It's about if we try. You guys are all about logic, right? I'M bringing a logical argument here where it's like this.

Eldar [01:41:01]:
I'm having these ways. Your line of thinking.

Denis [01:41:04]:
That's it. Then you have.

Eldar [01:41:06]:
I would like to.

Denis [01:41:06]:
We have to be honest. I'm glad you said that.

Eldar [01:41:08]:
I'd like to clarification about why you asking the question.

Denis [01:41:11]:
I'm glad you said that. That line is very important. You're having a hard time. My line of thinking. This means that you're having a hard time with a line of thinking that's outside of yours. And you're not going to allow that line of thinking to actually answer any of your questions.

Eldar [01:41:23]:
I'm giving you just going to answer and you're not giving. You did. You left everybody, you left everybody hanging.

Denis [01:41:32]:
I just answered. Once we got to it, I answered.

Eldar [01:41:34]:
The question, but it's like you didn't say anything.

Denis [01:41:37]:
I mean, like, I didn't say. I just, I explained. It's like this, this started as like, I was trying to genuinely, like, listen to him, listen to T's thing. Then he bring Mike brings up a topic. I was trying to get to it.

Mike [01:41:51]:
Like, I don't know, bring up suffering.

Eldar [01:41:54]:
I'll, I'll eject.

Mike [01:41:56]:
Going to the gym.

Denis [01:41:57]:
I think, I think.

Eldar [01:41:57]:
Can you explain what's happening?

Denis [01:41:58]:
Final thoughts for me. Final thoughts for me on this, this, this, this topic of thing is like you, you said, you said it best. Just this last line. It's like I'm having a hard time agreeing or understanding your thinking. And when you have that.

Eldar [01:42:10]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:42:10]:
You refuse to actually, like, hear it out or listen to it in a real way because you already got the answer to it and you ruled the person out. So there's nothing that they could say other than you gonna just, like, troll.

Eldar [01:42:20]:
It if you're gonna say ridiculous stuff.

Denis [01:42:21]:
I have challenges if, if me. Any of the things that I just said here has been ridiculous. I mean, inshallah, bro, you know what I mean?

Eldar [01:42:28]:
You are bringing up a particular question that I'm having a hard time with.

Denis [01:42:31]:
Things that I don't.

Eldar [01:42:31]:
You're not being honest and candid about answering that question. Everybody asked you. You didn't do it. What do you want me to say?

Denis [01:42:38]:
Yeah, okay. I still haven't done it.

Toliy [01:42:39]:
Right.

Denis [01:42:39]:
I still have not.

Eldar [01:42:41]:
Is anybody, is anybody here?

Toliy [01:42:43]:
I, I, I don't understand.

Denis [01:42:44]:
Like, bro.

Eldar [01:42:44]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:42:45]:
About the red and blue car. I said, yo, yo, my man. I'm trying to understand better. Was he skinny for a day or what? Why, what do you mean why? You're bringing up a topic. You're like, yo, let's decide.

Toliy [01:42:55]:
No, but you're. No, no, but I think, Wait, hold on a second. Like you're trying to get context, right? So yeah, every clarity, every question that you're asking in this situation should. Needs to be purposeful, right? Do you agree with that?

Denis [01:43:13]:
Who's like. But who's the determining factor of purpose?

Toliy [01:43:16]:
No, no, no, no, no. You are, you are able to get. You are the determining factor, right?

Denis [01:43:23]:
My bar of purposeful with that question was 100.

Toliy [01:43:25]:
Okay, okay, so I'm asking, I'm just thinking, I'm just. No, no. All right, hold on, wait, hold on.

Eldar [01:43:32]:
Sorry.

Toliy [01:43:32]:
I'm saying that every question that you're about to ask needs to be purposeful. Correct. And this judge of purpose is you on me? Yes, Correct.

Denis [01:43:41]:
I'm the judge of purpose.

Mike [01:43:42]:
Right.

Toliy [01:43:42]:
You're not going to ask was the sun shining and for how many.

Denis [01:43:45]:
Correct. And I don't feel like that would.

Toliy [01:43:46]:
Be non purpose for you.

Eldar [01:43:48]:
Right, correct.

Toliy [01:43:49]:
Okay, so then, so then because every question is purposeful, you need to have a reason as to why that particular question is relevant to this.

Denis [01:44:01]:
And I gave that reason. The reason is I was trying to gain context on the situation of how long.

Toliy [01:44:05]:
Okay, Fair skinny. And then whenever you follow up, I'm.

Denis [01:44:10]:
Thinking further like, okay, like, all right.

Toliy [01:44:12]:
So in my follow up brainstorm, the.

Denis [01:44:15]:
Concept that he brought, then my follow.

Toliy [01:44:16]:
Up question would be is that how does, how does asking that question give you more context?

Eldar [01:44:22]:
Oh my God.

Denis [01:44:23]:
Well see now you're talking about the levels of purposefulness where like when I'm asking it, I'm not thinking on the fifth level of it of like, is this question going to be deemed as. Again, the concept of why nobody gets to the core of anything is because like going it's ridiculous.

Mike [01:44:41]:
We gotta move on to the next.

Denis [01:44:42]:
Yeah, man, I don't know.

Eldar [01:44:44]:
Yeah. Holy. What the is happening?

Toliy [01:44:46]:
Yeah, yeah, no, no, yeah, I do agree that like, like burden is on him.

Denis [01:44:51]:
Why should he set it up where.

Eldar [01:44:52]:
Like the burden is on you?

Denis [01:44:53]:
Maybe you guys just set up the mics and I just recorded. I don't know.

Eldar [01:44:56]:
I mean we were doing that, we were doing that for a very long time. You just tuned in recently, so. Yeah, no, that was a pretty, pretty normal.

Denis [01:45:04]:
Nail that in. Make sure like I don't about what you're saying. Cuz we, we so strong.

Mike [01:45:07]:
You know what I mean?

Toliy [01:45:10]:
That's why I think that you answered it correctly. You agree that, you agreed, you agree that the questions need to be purposeful to you.

Denis [01:45:18]:
That's what I'm saying. You guys, we're going in circle now.

Toliy [01:45:21]:
You want to.

Denis [01:45:22]:
This is the. The philosophy club. I'm good. This is why Dennis rocks, because bring one topic.

Toliy [01:45:29]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:45:29]:
Try to get to it, circle around it, spiral out of it, and try to catch everybody's Lego. Did you just say something that I could catch you with 10 ways where I'm like, yo, my man. Like, I'm asking a question to get the context for what the. The topic that you brought to me.

Eldar [01:45:42]:
I agree with knowing.

Toliy [01:45:44]:
I agree with that, though, D. I agree with that.

Denis [01:45:47]:
But I want to know the maximum purpose.

Toliy [01:45:49]:
No.

Denis [01:45:49]:
Of asking about.

Toliy [01:45:50]:
I agree that you're trying to get conte. I agree that you're trying to get context, but. But I'm wondering, what context does that question give you?

Eldar [01:46:00]:
None.

Denis [01:46:00]:
None. That's it. I'm.

Mike [01:46:02]:
You're trying to hack his software.

Denis [01:46:04]:
Like.

Toliy [01:46:04]:
Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that you would agree if you ask, was the sun shining? That would be a question.

Denis [01:46:11]:
Let me give what they.

Eldar [01:46:13]:
What they.

Denis [01:46:14]:
What you and they specifically, my man wanted. I'm asking that question because I actually have the answer to his problem, and it's a timing thing, and he's doing it, and I'm trying to undermine whatever concept is going on here. So I'm asking that because I'm convinced that actually it's a time thing.

Mike [01:46:28]:
Better.

Denis [01:46:28]:
We'll leave it at that. Or. No, like, it's actually a time thing. He failed at it only because. Not because it was a pursuit of women and not a. A better pursuit for weight loss, which, again, from the beginning, I said that I agree fundamentally that. That maybe have been a poor pursuit. I'm just asking the time thing because I agree that it's just a.

Denis [01:46:45]:
It's a time thing. He wasn't skinny enough to get the girl. He wasn't skinny enough.

Mike [01:46:50]:
I know. I didn't mean to tell me that.

Denis [01:46:51]:
You weren't skinny enough to get the girl.

Mike [01:46:53]:
I know.

Eldar [01:46:54]:
I.

Mike [01:46:54]:
Up.

Eldar [01:46:55]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:46:55]:
But it's okay, though.

Eldar [01:46:56]:
Yeah, yeah.

Mike [01:46:57]:
Good, good.

Denis [01:46:58]:
Good talk, fellas. I. I apologize, you know.

Eldar [01:47:01]:
Oh, wow, me too. If anybody's feelings were hurt and it's. It's only. Apologize. I definitely apologize.

Toliy [01:47:08]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:47:09]:
Yeah. You guys. You guys got to do it.

Mike [01:47:10]:
Just.

Denis [01:47:11]:
Just. Just three. Just, you know, locked in one thought. Current. That's it. Everyone else is stupid, so might as.

Eldar [01:47:16]:
Well not even bring me.

Denis [01:47:17]:
Like, think about it. Logical. Logically. Think about if. If. If you know what you. If you know that, like, your shit is top tier. What's the point of bringing in the sloppy seconds, you know what I'm saying? Like, why let the other people come in? It's just gonna be stupid.

Eldar [01:47:32]:
The barkers will bark. You know what I'm saying? The barkers will bark, and you have to allow them to bark up until they can't bark.

Denis [01:47:39]:
But you don't allow them to bark. So let's not go into that, because if you allow them to bark, we'd be having a different conversation. You don't allow them bark, so what's the point of bringing them in?

Eldar [01:47:47]:
We have that ability, Mic. But not allowing the barkers to bark. Yeah, we're on to something. That's it.

Denis [01:47:55]:
Yeah, let's drop the infamous line. You haven't been around us long enough. I'm sorry to hear that. I'm sorry to hear that.

Eldar [01:48:05]:
What about good luck?

Mike [01:48:06]:
You love that one, too.

Toliy [01:48:07]:
Yeah, like, good luck.

Denis [01:48:08]:
So listen, like, if you feel that way, good luck. You know what I mean? Like, maybe you just don't love what you're doing.

Mike [01:48:12]:
You know what I mean?

Denis [01:48:13]:
Or something, you know?

Mike [01:48:14]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:48:15]:
Damn. I was actually, you know, I got.

Mike [01:48:17]:
One for you, too.

Denis [01:48:18]:
I was exploring this other stuff, but.

Mike [01:48:20]:
It might be Dr. K. That you're not, like, you know, ready to go ahead. Don't understand these online concepts.

Denis [01:48:24]:
Yes.

Mike [01:48:26]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:48:27]:
Oh, my God. What the. You're bad. That's bad for your karma, Mike, by saying that out loud. Yeah. No.

Mike [01:48:37]:
All right, so back to the topic.

Eldar [01:48:41]:
Help us out here. Sounds like you've been doing a gig on us and on yourself, obviously. Right. But you've been going around pretending that the first self is somehow not the second self, but the actual second self actually has a really good space, A luxury apartment in your space that is constantly. You backwards into a pretzel.

Toliy [01:49:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:49:07]:
What's happening?

Toliy [01:49:10]:
I don't know.

Mike [01:49:13]:
Yeah, well, I think we talked about it. I think one part is, you know, as one of the. My friend's favorite lines to prove the haters wrong, you know, from childhood.

Eldar [01:49:26]:
So you're saying that this whole thing was an act?

Mike [01:49:29]:
I think it's a campaign to prove to.

Eldar [01:49:32]:
So it's an act.

Toliy [01:49:33]:
But what do you mean it's an act?

Eldar [01:49:35]:
You see what he's saying? He's saying that you have a campaign.

Mike [01:49:39]:
To prove people wrong, so.

Eldar [01:49:41]:
Yeah, to prove people wrong.

Mike [01:49:42]:
Therefore, you know.

Eldar [01:49:44]:
Yeah. Therefore you put on this righteous hat on and present into the world.

Toliy [01:49:50]:
Well, I mean, Yeah, I definitely don't feel that way.

Eldar [01:49:53]:
Huh.

Toliy [01:49:54]:
Yeah, I definitely don't agree with that.

Eldar [01:49:55]:
Okay, there you Go.

Mike [01:49:56]:
No, but I'm not saying you do it on a conscious level, but I do think that, you know, the stuff that the her points.

Eldar [01:50:02]:
It's motivated by that it motivates us.

Mike [01:50:05]:
To, you know, like. Like, you guys are very competitive on the basketball court.

Eldar [01:50:10]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:50:11]:
And I always hear Totally saying, like, yo, you know, he wants to beat these guys suck.

Eldar [01:50:16]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:50:17]:
Wipe them.

Eldar [01:50:17]:
Wipe their blood. Or like, wipe their blood on being.

Mike [01:50:20]:
The fastest basketball player. Best basketball player, county.

Eldar [01:50:23]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:50:23]:
You know, up for debate potentially. But I think. I think that especially in the basketball thing, you know, you are trying to, like, revenge people to prove to them, like, yo, I'm better than you.

Eldar [01:50:39]:
You're.

Mike [01:50:39]:
The competitiveness is showing that you are better than those people. And when the nasty stuff comes out, like the anger, the aggression.

Eldar [01:50:46]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:50:46]:
That even more unleashes, like, the stuff.

Eldar [01:50:49]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:50:49]:
You know.

Toliy [01:50:50]:
Yeah, at times it does.

Mike [01:50:51]:
But if you start now examining all the other times that you were counted out, because basketball is a huge thing that we all share. And we know your personality and we know your traumas because we watched you play basketball.

Toliy [01:51:02]:
Yeah, but I also don't like all the reasons I play basketball. And everything I enjoy about it is not also all about that. So you can't assume that, like.

Mike [01:51:10]:
Oh, I'm not assuming anything. I'm just saying, like, this is what I thought. I don't know if that's the case. I'm just, you know, saying, like.

Toliy [01:51:16]:
Yeah, no, I think that there's definitely.

Mike [01:51:19]:
Is. Sounds like you are trying to prove people wrong. You know that.

Eldar [01:51:23]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:51:23]:
You know, and you also mentioned that you had trauma, you know, and, you know, when you were in the high school and you were counted out, people didn't let you play. And now you got better, you got more confident, you have a shot now you kind of can't go around swinging the big dick, you know?

Toliy [01:51:37]:
No, but it's not. It's. It's not about that. It's about like. Like there are parts of revenge, but there's also competitiveness, like, in the moment. Like, someone's talking shit in the moment. In the moment. So then, like, competitiveness comes out to like, okay, let's go this battle.

Toliy [01:51:53]:
Right. It doesn't mean that, like, that's also like a reflection of like. Or a mirroring image of me revenging somebody from back in the day.

Eldar [01:52:01]:
Right.

Toliy [01:52:02]:
So I think.

Eldar [01:52:02]:
Yeah, but.

Denis [01:52:02]:
No, but.

Eldar [01:52:03]:
But there's a value system in there. Right. That is. That is driving you to accept the challenge and.

Mike [01:52:10]:
Yeah. Allowed to come out of face in the challenge, Correct.

Toliy [01:52:13]:
Yeah. Uncertain parts of it.

Mike [01:52:16]:
Competition. You also been nasty to me.

Eldar [01:52:20]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:52:21]:
We're on the same team here.

Eldar [01:52:23]:
Okay, well, because that extends further, you.

Mike [01:52:25]:
Know what I'm saying?

Eldar [01:52:26]:
Yeah. It's not like you only plays one on one games. Yeah.

Mike [01:52:29]:
You know.

Toliy [01:52:29]:
Okay.

Mike [01:52:30]:
It's also a nice nastiness that comes out towards other players, towards people on your team, other teams. Like so, you know, it's not just that, but I mean, I guess it's not just a basketball example, but ours. Like, we all have insecurities. I think potentially, you know, our insecurities are the places that we come out of pocket. Insecurities to me equals having to prove people wrong. You know, if you're insecure about something, then you actually believe that about yourself. Maybe you don't think about it that way, but you do believe that. And then you.

Mike [01:53:10]:
You're on a mission to like, you know, lose weight, to prove to people that, yo, you know, I can get a good looking girl, like, whatever.

Eldar [01:53:17]:
Right.

Mike [01:53:17]:
That's my insecurity. For example, I'm on a mission to prove everybody wrong, especially the girl who dusted me.

Eldar [01:53:23]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:53:24]:
I can get a baddie. You. That's a revenge.

Eldar [01:53:28]:
Revenge tour that you're on. Yeah.

Mike [01:53:30]:
You know, so if you start thinking about all the insecurities that we have, whether it be with girls, whether it be about our weight, whether it be about, you know, sports, I don't know, fucking making money. We are in a lot of times on a mission to seek validation, people, but also to prove the other people wrong. And that's like a dirty, dirty, fucked up cycle, you know, where you are trying to be number two yourself, you know, and not number one yourself, which is the reasonable person. You bought into some illusionary stuff because of trauma and other traumas causing you to be a unreasonable person. You, us, whatever, you know, not trying to point fingers. This has become a very sensitive podcast now, so.

Eldar [01:54:21]:
Wow, you're bad, Mike. My mother's getting blamed for it.

Mike [01:54:26]:
No, but you still get the blame, though.

Eldar [01:54:30]:
I installed that into you earlier. Thank you, Mike.

Mike [01:54:35]:
I'm just trying to have fun. I love people.

Eldar [01:54:40]:
Good, good.

Mike [01:54:42]:
Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying you are like going out there looking for your next victim, you know.

Eldar [01:54:52]:
But he is. But internally he is.

Mike [01:54:54]:
In a way it is.

Eldar [01:54:55]:
Your dick gets hard when somebody talks shit.

Mike [01:54:57]:
I see you running all the boners.

Eldar [01:54:58]:
Yeah, that. Remember that time? Yeah.

Toliy [01:55:02]:
I mean, like, I have a boner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, look, there's definitely parts of like the revenge tour of life 100.

Denis [01:55:12]:
But.

Eldar [01:55:12]:
Yo buddy, just, just side note, real question.

Mike [01:55:19]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:55:19]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:55:20]:
As well.

Toliy [01:55:20]:
Say it.

Eldar [01:55:21]:
All right. Yeah.

Toliy [01:55:22]:
I trapped them.

Denis [01:55:24]:
Trapped again.

Mike [01:55:25]:
Trapped.

Eldar [01:55:26]:
You wouldn't be upset if we monetize this shit?

Denis [01:55:29]:
What?

Eldar [01:55:30]:
Cool, thanks. Go ahead. DT Yeah, I said what?

Denis [01:55:35]:
I didn't answer your question.

Eldar [01:55:36]:
Oh, you didn't understand it. Okay. You wouldn't be mad if we monetize this? Like this was monetized where it's like now it's like we're getting money from it. Get it?

Toliy [01:55:52]:
Go check.

Eldar [01:55:53]:
Check, buddy.

Mike [01:55:54]:
Go, go, go.

Toliy [01:55:55]:
Orange.

Eldar [01:55:55]:
Go.

Denis [01:55:57]:
Hey, Bab. Hey, Bab.

Mike [01:56:00]:
Hey, Cat.

Toliy [01:56:01]:
Are you still going?

Eldar [01:56:02]:
Yeah, of course. We like Energizer Bunny.

Toliy [01:56:05]:
Babe, remove that D. So. Or would you be okay with us making money on it?

Denis [01:56:10]:
Yeah, I'd be great with it.

Mike [01:56:12]:
As long as you get the drip on record. A big drip on record.

Eldar [01:56:17]:
Cuz, I mean we having fun, right? You know what I'm saying?

Mike [01:56:22]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:56:26]:
Sorry.

Toliy [01:56:27]:
Yeah, no, I definitely think that like revenge is a part of it and stuff like that. And I do agree that I like that extends to all other parts of life too in certain ways. And like I think that you realize them stronger or, or. Or lesser. Right. And as. As you progress in life. But yeah, like I.

Toliy [01:56:46]:
I definitely find it hard to blanket it as I like, that's my soul.

Mike [01:56:48]:
No, I'm not saying that's the full thing for everything. There's a lot more of it.

Toliy [01:56:52]:
Well, that's what all they were saying is that like you putting on an act to do this. Like, I mean, yeah, I definitely don't.

Mike [01:56:58]:
Like the statement you made yesterday. It's also a big part of it. Like let people down, let myself down. That's also part of it. You under impression that you have to live up to a certain standard of somebody else. Yeah, but I also would have put.

Eldar [01:57:13]:
A lot of weight on him because I think that that statement is so strong and so general. I'm not sure if he's feeling that on moment basis. You know what I'm saying?

Mike [01:57:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:57:20]:
You would have to evaluate his whole life to see where. When he's actually feeling that. Yeah.

Toliy [01:57:24]:
It's also a matter of like, of like a moment to moment thing. Like you could be under one impression, but it doesn't mean that like I'm not sitting here and like fighting that. That impression and trying to convince you guys that like.

Eldar [01:57:37]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:57:38]:
That that's what's happening. Like I. I at least felt that in as. As we have More conversations. I'm on the side of agreeing that, like, that's not real.

Mike [01:57:47]:
I know.

Eldar [01:57:48]:
Yes.

Mike [01:57:48]:
It's not real.

Eldar [01:57:49]:
I agree with you.

Toliy [01:57:50]:
Right.

Mike [01:57:50]:
Anymore. But the spell that we put on.

Toliy [01:57:54]:
Ourselves, it is very real in those moments.

Mike [01:57:58]:
Yes, yes, yes.

Eldar [01:57:59]:
But those are fleeting moments. And we've proven. He's proven it to himself as well.

Mike [01:58:03]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:58:03]:
You know what I mean?

Mike [01:58:04]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:58:05]:
So subconsciously, maybe he walks around sometimes with that cloud on oversight, but this does not mean that this is a. In existence. You know what I mean? But ultimately, I think the whole goal is for him to be that extinguisher, to be able to extinguish certain things where it's like, what's happening with me here? Why do I have this problem thinking.

Toliy [01:58:21]:
Yeah, I. I think that, like, when you're examining something and you're in the. And like, yeah. If. If you're a person who's willing. Look, let me change that. If you're a person who's willing to examine something and put something, I think, in the forefront. Right.

Toliy [01:58:35]:
I think that, like, those feelings that we think we're, like, heavily attached to and stuff like that. Right. I think that, like, when we put into the forefront and we allow it for examination, we kind of. I. I think with our actions, prove that we're not attached to these kind of things and, like, this isn't really what we want or like, of course, stuff like that. So, like, even if I think if I, like, came across in, like, a strong way on something, it's like I'm coming across in that moment, right? Strongly, yes. But I feel that, like, if I'm putting something out there for examination, there's definitely a chance that, like, I mean, and obviously it was like, when you employ logic and bring that in that, like, the. Like that.

Toliy [01:59:24]:
Like that. That. That strength of it slowly gets less and less and like, yeah, whatever, like weapons you thought that you had that you're equipped with to battle this out, start disappearing, and then, like, you actually start, like, putting everything down and realizing that, like, no, like, this is actually not what's happening. You know, I get it. So, like, yeah, like, I definitely don't feel, like, strongly about that now because as we employ logic on any of these kind of things, I think that we'll find that, like, we're. We're wrong about our assumptions to begin with.

Mike [01:59:59]:
I agree, but.

Eldar [02:00:00]:
But we.

Mike [02:00:00]:
I agree with saying, but again, we might have uncovered four things in that bar, but I think there's still a lot of things that we bought into subconsciously and those things are the ones that we still need to keep on covering.

Toliy [02:00:14]:
Well, there, there's going to be a lot of. There's going to be. I, I think like all the things.

Mike [02:00:18]:
That we're uncovering, though, those all are an axe that we put on ourselves and trying to.

Toliy [02:00:23]:
Oh, sure, yeah.

Mike [02:00:24]:
No necessary reason.

Toliy [02:00:25]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:00:26]:
You know?

Toliy [02:00:26]:
Yeah, yeah.

Mike [02:00:28]:
I feel like, I think they're rooted in trauma.

Eldar [02:00:30]:
Listen. Yeah. Those things that he put up as a friend, I don't wish that upon him. I don't wish the burden that comes with those types of things. However. Right. The reasonable mind, when we brought that out in him and reminded him, like, hey, totally, like, reason through this real quick, you know what I mean? Like, as a reasonable person, see these things for what they are and see how you feel about it. As soon as he did, he's like, this is a little bit ridiculous.

Eldar [02:00:54]:
He made certain statements that completely contradicted all the other statements.

Toliy [02:00:57]:
Right.

Eldar [02:00:58]:
You know what I mean? So he's able to see it clearly. Right. But of course, like, anytime you, we as friends observe you making a very strong statement, like, I'm a let down to myself and everyone else, we have a level of concern. You know what I'm saying?

Toliy [02:01:15]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:01:15]:
Which then is married to maybe Mike, where you're making a certain assumption is to find out, like, where is this really coming from? Are you actually carrying this around, this bag of bricks throughout the day?

Toliy [02:01:27]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:01:27]:
You know what I mean?

Toliy [02:01:28]:
Yeah. And. Yeah.

Eldar [02:01:29]:
And is it, is it, is it necessary to examine that and him as being a friend in that moment, if you summon him for him to remind you, like, hey, like, you still have those bricks with you today. You know what I mean? Kind of like help you out with that one.

Toliy [02:01:42]:
100%.

Eldar [02:01:43]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [02:01:44]:
I'm not arguing that.

Eldar [02:01:44]:
Okay.

Toliy [02:01:46]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that like, the more you bring them up and uncover them.

Eldar [02:01:50]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:01:50]:
Like, the more things you're gonna obviously find and think about differently. And.

Eldar [02:01:55]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:01:55]:
Like, again, it's, it's so hard to, I think, on an every moment basis, like, not be under the wrong assumption because, like, there's going to be more and more things and more and more things that like, you consider simple things.

Eldar [02:02:09]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:02:09]:
That you're under the wrong assumption.

Eldar [02:02:11]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:02:11]:
Right.

Eldar [02:02:12]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:02:12]:
But it's difficult to account for all those things without time. And like in every conversation you're going to account and find new things on the same subject. It's not like you talk about once about respect and you just cover everything about respect. You're going to find that, like, you, like, uncover 10 things where you're not respectful, and then in, like, six months, you're gonna find 10 more. 10 more. 10 more. And you're gonna keep going until you can become a better judge of whether you are respectful or not or whether you're doing this. And I think that that's like a continuous cycle.

Toliy [02:02:49]:
It's definitely a lot easier to find all that out when you employ more than one mind.

Eldar [02:02:54]:
Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask.

Toliy [02:02:56]:
Because I also know that, like, I also know that, like, any of you guys here can. Can. I know that I have the ability that, like, if you guys bring out any problem, I know that I'm good at, like, not bringing any emotions into it, which is also why I know that, like, I can sound mean in the process. Right. And I have the cold, mean. Right, right. In.

Mike [02:03:18]:
In.

Toliy [02:03:19]:
In the process. But that's because I can really see it so logically that none of your emotional BS that you're talking about.

Mike [02:03:26]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:03:26]:
Is going to get through it. And. And I know that the other person at that time, same thing with me when I'm bringing stuff out, I know that, like, the emotional side of me is going to be like, yo, you don't understand me. Or like, you. You just not getting it. Or like, stuff like that. I know that. That, like, exists.

Eldar [02:03:41]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:03:42]:
Right.

Eldar [02:03:42]:
Good.

Toliy [02:03:43]:
Because I. I know that I. I've been like, how do you bridge the.

Eldar [02:03:45]:
Gap between the two? The person who's experiencing the pain and then person remembering that the people that are right now bullies is actually on your side.

Toliy [02:03:54]:
Yeah. You have to.

Eldar [02:03:55]:
No, whoa.

Mike [02:03:56]:
No.

Toliy [02:03:56]:
I think that you have to examine respect.

Mike [02:03:59]:
That's how that.

Toliy [02:04:01]:
Respect. What?

Denis [02:04:02]:
A dialogue with respect will bridge that gap without that.

Toliy [02:04:04]:
No, no, he's talking about for yourself. For yourself. Like, when you're talking about bridging the.

Denis [02:04:09]:
Gap between the two individuals.

Toliy [02:04:12]:
Yeah. For yourself.

Eldar [02:04:13]:
For yourself. Yeah, but I know why. Why you're saying that.

Toliy [02:04:16]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, yeah. For yourself. I think that, like, the. The. The. I. I think the way to bridge that gap for yourself is to not examine your problems, but examine your attachments to the problem.

Toliy [02:04:31]:
To those problems.

Eldar [02:04:31]:
Oh, wow. Wow. I mean. But that's another. Because if you want to answer the question.

Toliy [02:04:35]:
Yeah. Because removing attachment removes emotion. And when you remove attachment, you remove emotion. You're only left with logic at that time.

Eldar [02:04:43]:
Time.

Toliy [02:04:43]:
That's it.

Mike [02:04:43]:
Yeah. Yeah. A lot of these. A lot of these things are driven by desires.

Eldar [02:04:47]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [02:04:48]:
And when that other person is talking to you I don't need you. I don't need to remove the emotion that I don't have to begin with in the conversation that we're talking about. I don't have that emotion to begin with, so there's nothing for me to remove, which is why I can talk about it in that particular way.

Eldar [02:05:02]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:05:02]:
That will sound mean to somebody else. Right. But when you're doing it to yourself.

Eldar [02:05:07]:
Yes.

Toliy [02:05:08]:
You can't trick yourself like, yo, they're just like, surrender and put your anxiety down.

Eldar [02:05:12]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:05:13]:
Right. Because, like, you could. I could tell you that, but you're gonna be like, all right.

Eldar [02:05:16]:
Like, yeah.

Toliy [02:05:17]:
Like, what do you want me to put down? Like, what do you want me to surrender?

Eldar [02:05:19]:
That's why you asked me a question in the gym. You said, hey, how do you convince me of that? Like, how do you convince yourself of that?

Toliy [02:05:24]:
Yeah, because, like, I think that when you're trying to solve that subconsciously, that's exactly what you want.

Eldar [02:05:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:05:29]:
You want to, like, employ ways or figure out ways to. To remove emotion from the situation so that you can only view things logically so that you're not plagued with that, like, stupid BS that you have in your mind, which is. Is not logically.

Eldar [02:05:47]:
How'd you get there? How'd you get there in the first place?

Toliy [02:05:50]:
Where?

Eldar [02:05:50]:
There.

Mike [02:05:51]:
Where.

Eldar [02:05:51]:
The first part.

Toliy [02:05:53]:
Which first part?

Eldar [02:05:54]:
Yourself. The first part of the question.

Toliy [02:05:57]:
What do you mean?

Eldar [02:05:58]:
You know what? Like, how do you. Or the question is, how do you protect yourself from yourself when you're not yourself? How do you get to that second part? Like, how'd you get to. How do you. How'd you get to the second part? Like, how'd you fall?

Toliy [02:06:16]:
What do you mean, fall?

Eldar [02:06:17]:
Like, you fell yesterday, right? Yeah, you fell. How'd you get there?

Toliy [02:06:20]:
How did I fall?

Eldar [02:06:21]:
Yeah, the act of falling. What happened?

Mike [02:06:26]:
The.

Eldar [02:06:27]:
I. I fucked around and said, fomo Just the fuck around.

Toliy [02:06:29]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:06:30]:
But you said. No, you were offended.

Toliy [02:06:32]:
What you're saying. How did I get to the point where I wanted to talk about this?

Mike [02:06:35]:
Yeah. Yeah, but how'd you actually come to.

Eldar [02:06:38]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:06:39]:
How do you get to the place that he was? Or how do you get to the place to make the statement.

Eldar [02:06:42]:
To make the statement and then feel the repercussions behind. I'm a nobody, and I'm just waste, and I'm not worthy of anything. And, like, I'm just dirt.

Mike [02:06:52]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:06:53]:
Frying my mind, really.

Mike [02:06:56]:
That's like a really.

Toliy [02:06:58]:
Well, I mean, like, that. That the falling is, like, the proof that, like, wow, there's not enough logic that exists within, with within you in these kinds of things for a long enough period of time.

Eldar [02:07:08]:
Wow.

Mike [02:07:09]:
Trying to mind the same thing is not living a non examined life, correct. Yes, yes, yes.

Toliy [02:07:14]:
It's letting emotion and BS take over to the point where that's why I.

Mike [02:07:18]:
Think it's important you can't to have that gauge, you know, And I think I'd like to develop a gauge.

Eldar [02:07:24]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:07:24]:
And I think I'm trying to develop a gauge and my gauge is like, yo, whatever I'm going through right now, I'm not having fun. Am I happy?

Eldar [02:07:31]:
I know, that's why I called you Aristotle for a second. Yeah.

Mike [02:07:34]:
So I think if I can't answer those questions that I'm having fun and I'm being, you know, I'm happy.

Eldar [02:07:41]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:07:43]:
Then I can say like, yo, I might be on the right path.

Eldar [02:07:45]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:07:45]:
But if I'm doing something.

Eldar [02:07:47]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:07:47]:
You know, whatever, you know, prime my mind or not. Living a non examined, you know, life.

Eldar [02:07:53]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:07:54]:
If I ask myself and I gauge it to that and I can't say yes, then I have to be like, okay, something's up, something's up. I have to, you know, reevaluate.

Eldar [02:08:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:08:03]:
And talk about it and bring it up, you know.

Eldar [02:08:05]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:08:06]:
Yeah. I think that like not having that ability to, to, to like, like. Because I also think that like asking that question needs to also, like, it's not a question. It's not also just asking that question. I think it's asking that question.

Mike [02:08:22]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:08:23]:
With the, with, with a particular type of humility and an ability to be honest. Because you could also ask that question and be like, no, I'm having fun here. Right?

Mike [02:08:31]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:08:32]:
And in the trick.

Mike [02:08:33]:
But I'm asking the question.

Toliy [02:08:34]:
No, no, no. I know, but I also, but have you not tricked yourself before?

Mike [02:08:39]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [02:08:40]:
So that's what I'm saying myself now, that's what I'm saying is that when asking that question, like, that's obviously a good question to ask, but I think that like that question needs to be asked with enough like, intent of like human humility and honesty for you to actually ask that question. Because you could be like, yeah, I'm having fun here. Right. Because you have a, an attachment. And if you have an attachment, I don't think that you can ask that question to be honest with yourself. Yourself.

Mike [02:09:06]:
Well, you would hope that you're honest, right? You try to strive to be honest with yourself.

Toliy [02:09:10]:
That's what I'm saying. That I'm not sure I'm not sure if you could be honest with yourself while having attachment. The only. I think the only way to be the. The only way to practice honesty at that moment is just to be honest that you do have an attachment.

Eldar [02:09:26]:
I mean, the challenge is. Yeah. Whether or not that attachment that you have the excitement or whatever is. Is a healthy one or not.

Toliy [02:09:32]:
And whether that, like, whether I'm willing to compromise, whether that prevents honesty. Do you believe. Do you believe that. That that attachment prevents honesty or. Or compromises it. Compromises it. Right.

Eldar [02:09:45]:
Yeah, Compromises.

Toliy [02:09:46]:
Right.

Eldar [02:09:47]:
Because it could.

Mike [02:09:47]:
Sure.

Toliy [02:09:48]:
Yeah. When we, when we want to do something devious like, you know, you can give a million reasons like.

Eldar [02:09:53]:
Yes.

Toliy [02:09:53]:
Why this is a great idea. Yeah, I can give you a million of reason. No, I agree with you.

Eldar [02:10:00]:
All right, cool. Thank you.

Mike [02:10:00]:
I think.

Toliy [02:10:01]:
Yeah, thank you.

Eldar [02:10:01]:
Thank you. Why are you being mean, though?

Mike [02:10:03]:
I agree, but I think that I try to apologize. I think that if you're trying to again, do this process.

Eldar [02:10:10]:
Huh.

Mike [02:10:12]:
You're. You will become much more. With time, you become much more sensitive and you'll become potentially better at being honest with yourself.

Eldar [02:10:19]:
Yes. Yes. Because you will know when you're bullshitting yourself or not. Yes.

Toliy [02:10:24]:
Well, that's what I'm saying is that.

Eldar [02:10:25]:
But you have to develop it.

Toliy [02:10:27]:
Yeah, but. But before the pain, I think that, like, you can maybe a. Maybe a good key, I'm thinking is that, like, to know that, like, you have attachments. And if you're aware that you have attachments, I think that it'll be easier for you to be honest yourself. That if you're not aware in that moment that you do have an attachment, that's where you could be compromised.

Eldar [02:10:51]:
Not if the attachment carries itself in a selfless act.

Toliy [02:10:56]:
Yeah, but if you're asking that question, are you having fun to begin with? Right. Like in selfless acts. I don't think that you're asking those questions to begin with.

Eldar [02:11:04]:
Well, you should be. Yeah, but. You should be. But.

Toliy [02:11:06]:
Yeah, but I'm saying that, like, usually when you're having to ask that question.

Eldar [02:11:09]:
To yourself or the only past that. Yes. The Buddhists only give the path of a particular desire is for the, for the enlightenment.

Toliy [02:11:17]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying is that, like, desires and attachments make it difficult at times.

Eldar [02:11:24]:
Yes.

Toliy [02:11:24]:
To be honest. So you could still ask yourself that question, but still trick yourself.

Mike [02:11:29]:
I think 100 in. In that moment, I have. Not that I trick myself, but I'm like, yo, I'm having fun, but I shouldn't be doing this. But I'm okay.

Eldar [02:11:38]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:11:38]:
Because I can't control myself. I'm just gonna keep rocking.

Eldar [02:11:41]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:11:41]:
You know, like, I had this conversation myself.

Eldar [02:11:43]:
Well.

Mike [02:11:43]:
And I let myself slide because I know that I'm compromised, but I also am assuming the risk. I'm not like, yo, you know, I'm having fun. Go, like, I don't know, rob the bank.

Eldar [02:11:52]:
Let me just. Let me just put this T shirt idea on the thing. My echo chamber owns yours, so he's not going. Come on, dude, give us.

Mike [02:12:01]:
Wow. I know.

Denis [02:12:05]:
He's reached his point.

Eldar [02:12:06]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:12:07]:
It's like me after.

Eldar [02:12:09]:
Babe, you just came up with a T shirt for Dennis. No, I reached my point.

Toliy [02:12:14]:
Oh, my God.

Eldar [02:12:16]:
I'm writing this down.

Toliy [02:12:17]:
Only Dennis and I have a threshold.

Eldar [02:12:19]:
For, like, the longevity of the podcast.

Mike [02:12:21]:
Right.

Toliy [02:12:21]:
Like the episode.

Denis [02:12:23]:
I know somebody here wants to do final words.

Eldar [02:12:26]:
Oh, my God.

Mike [02:12:27]:
We just started. I feel like. Yeah, yeah, babe, we didn't shout the circus.

Denis [02:12:34]:
I'm gonna listen. Listen to this episode, actually. Make a shirt of it, please.

Toliy [02:12:44]:
Yeah, yeah. So I think that, that, that that's probably it. Is that, like, that, and then, like, when I ask you to. When, When. When I ask you to, like, like, like prove me wrong. Right? Yeah, I, I, I think that, like, when you get to that point, I think that, that it's just, like.

Eldar [02:13:03]:
Cry for help.

Toliy [02:13:04]:
Yeah, there's probably a cry for help.

Eldar [02:13:06]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:13:07]:
Yeah. Because it's. It's kind of like. Yeah, it's kind of like, I'm glad.

Eldar [02:13:10]:
That you rose from the feet, from the, from the ashes as a phoenix.

Toliy [02:13:13]:
Well, I'm trying to.

Eldar [02:13:14]:
Well, I mean. No, I mean, Yeah, I, I think today, I think. I mean, you. I mean, props to you, bro.

Toliy [02:13:20]:
Yeah. I feel like that, like, like, it's probably at that moment of, like, acknowledging of being sick, and like, the only thing that, that you can do is like, like, once you acknowledge that.

Eldar [02:13:33]:
Yeah. Like, you have no choice in the matter.

Mike [02:13:35]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:13:35]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:13:36]:
Once you're. If you're sick and don't know it.

Eldar [02:13:38]:
Yes.

Toliy [02:13:38]:
Then you're gonna come up with those reasons and excuses and tell you why this, why that.

Eldar [02:13:43]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:13:44]:
Stuff like that. But I think that once you acknowledge. Oh, yeah, you're sick.

Eldar [02:13:48]:
Yeah. Like, you have no choice.

Mike [02:13:49]:
Yeah, you have.

Toliy [02:13:49]:
No, no.

Eldar [02:13:50]:
You picked up the eraser real quick.

Toliy [02:13:52]:
What?

Eldar [02:13:52]:
You got up and picked up the eraser real quick.

Toliy [02:13:54]:
Yeah, I was ready to erase the whole board. Yeah.

Eldar [02:13:57]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:13:57]:
I wanted to actually keep one thing, like, like when I said, like, okay, let's just do one thing. I'm just gonna leave like.

Denis [02:14:02]:
Respect.

Eldar [02:14:02]:
Respect. Yeah.

Mike [02:14:03]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:14:03]:
And then kind of just take it from there, you know? Yeah. But I also know that, that like the mindset I had is, is like it, like it's not gone. And I know that it's not like far.

Eldar [02:14:20]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:14:21]:
But I also know that like. Yeah, there is like, like, I mean, exactly how I told. I. I guess Mike when he.

Eldar [02:14:29]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:14:29]:
Was doing like, you have to be consistent with this and you have to like.

Eldar [02:14:32]:
Yeah, yeah, you have to come and.

Toliy [02:14:35]:
You have to keep doing that.

Eldar [02:14:36]:
Just like you wish that for Mike. I wish that for you. Yeah, you're consistent.

Toliy [02:14:39]:
No, I understand that.

Eldar [02:14:41]:
Extinguish the.

Toliy [02:14:42]:
That's in your head and, and that's.

Eldar [02:14:43]:
And that's why that which you've been displaying playing to us this whole time.

Toliy [02:14:48]:
Yeah. And. And that's. I think that's what fuels the strength to continue to be able to do it is by coming with your journal and, and then, and like being ready to continue.

Eldar [02:14:58]:
Okay.

Toliy [02:14:59]:
If, if not, then like. Yeah, then, then you just grow again. Like you, you're just building rooms for that other guy to come take over again.

Eldar [02:15:06]:
Yeah. Again.

Toliy [02:15:07]:
Right. But if, yeah, if you keep doing that, then like, there's no room for anybody else, you know?

Eldar [02:15:14]:
So the question, babe, was to bring you up to speed. That's a pretty crazy question.

Mike [02:15:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:15:22]:
How to protect yourself from yourself when you're not yourself. So how to protect yourself from yourself when you're not yourself. Okay, so imagine this, right? Are you experiencing anxiety right now or. No. Cool. But there's going to be a time soon, today, later today, tomorrow, in a couple of days where you will experience anxiety. Yes. So now this is Catherine.

Eldar [02:15:45]:
Now there's going to be anxiety Catherine. So the question is, how do you protect yourself? Right. From yourself, from that person when you're not yourself?

Toliy [02:15:55]:
Yeah. It's a very complicated question. How does not anxiety Catherine. Protect herself from anxiety Catherine. When she's already.

Eldar [02:16:05]:
When she's anxiety Catherine?

Mike [02:16:07]:
I guess. Yeah. When I. You guys ask that question, it doesn't seem like there's a.

Eldar [02:16:13]:
She doesn't. And memory is the thing.

Mike [02:16:15]:
Doesn't sound like there's like a. I think we might be under impression that there's like a start and end to it.

Eldar [02:16:22]:
Hold on one sec, I got another T shirt idea.

Mike [02:16:23]:
Okay.

Eldar [02:16:24]:
Friends are a sheltering tree, if you have any.

Toliy [02:16:29]:
Yeah. What? What, what? You know what also reminded me elder.

Denis [02:16:32]:
Like this mind blowing.

Eldar [02:16:33]:
Yo.

Toliy [02:16:34]:
You know what?

Eldar [02:16:35]:
Nobody has ever. No, what do you mean?

Denis [02:16:36]:
But there's a saying that friends are sheltering trees.

Eldar [02:16:39]:
Not the second.

Toliy [02:16:41]:
Yeah. Do you, do you remember, Eldar? I, I, I think this will be a sick analogy. I was, I, I was just thinking it reminded me of it, like, when you were asking, like, how do you do. Do this? Right. Do you remember, like, I guess, I mean, you, you obviously do. I think you said that you, you saw the movie the Notebook many times, you said, Right.

Eldar [02:17:00]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:17:00]:
Yeah, right, of course. Do you remember what the old Noah was doing to the old. What, what was her name?

Eldar [02:17:06]:
Yeah, yeah. Ali.

Toliy [02:17:07]:
Ali. What was the old Noah doing to Al?

Eldar [02:17:10]:
Yeah. He was bringing, Remember?

Toliy [02:17:11]:
Yeah. And then when the doctor found. Yeah. And do you remember what the doctors, the, the young doctor, once he came.

Eldar [02:17:18]:
Possible.

Mike [02:17:18]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:17:18]:
Do you remember what he said? It's not possible. And do you remember what Noah said to him?

Eldar [02:17:23]:
No.

Toliy [02:17:24]:
No.

Eldar [02:17:25]:
Say it if you don't know. Are you kidding me?

Toliy [02:17:28]:
About to tell you?

Eldar [02:17:29]:
Okay, cool.

Toliy [02:17:30]:
He, he, he's, he, he's, he's like telling her back the story.

Eldar [02:17:33]:
Yes.

Toliy [02:17:34]:
And the doctor's like, yo, don't waste your time.

Eldar [02:17:35]:
Don't waste your time.

Toliy [02:17:36]:
Yeah, right. She has this, like, disease. Right. And then he's like, no, no, no.

Eldar [02:17:42]:
What?

Toliy [02:17:42]:
What? Like he, he somehow said, like, what. What you're saying is not true. And he's like, how? And he said she remembers.

Eldar [02:17:49]:
Like, remembers.

Toliy [02:17:50]:
She, he was telling her the story and she was showing glimpses of.

Eldar [02:17:54]:
Yes.

Toliy [02:17:54]:
Of memory.

Eldar [02:17:55]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:17:55]:
So I think that, like, this, to me, is that kind of situation where you have a person when you're not, when you're that anxious person or, or whatever it is in any example. Right? Like, you're not that person and you need to try to employ like, like, like the use of memory to try to remember when it's when, when, when. I guess everybody feels that time. It's not possible.

Eldar [02:18:17]:
Correct. And that's why, if you have people around you.

Toliy [02:18:19]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:18:20]:
That's why you thanked me yesterday. Thank you for, for reminding me of myself. You know what I mean?

Mike [02:18:26]:
Yeah.