Eldar [00:00:00]:
Yeah, I didn't like that about myself. Why am I doing that? And you don't have a good explanation why you do it. You're trapping yourself and forcing yourself to change because you become the observer.
Mike [00:00:09]:
He thinks he's a writer, but he's clearly not a writer.
Tommy [00:00:11]:
I do think I'm a writer.
Mike [00:00:12]:
See, he's a writer, but who's actually not a writer, therefore, he's not actually a writer.
Eldar [00:00:16]:
He's an actor.
Phillip [00:00:17]:
The way that I understand anybody in that world being in their flow state is there's no thought involved. You are tapping into something bigger than yourself, and it's called coming through you.
Eldar [00:00:27]:
Through you.
Phillip [00:00:28]:
Whenever I hear any artists talk like that, whether it's John Lennon or Tupac, anything, close my eyes and let the.
Eldar [00:00:34]:
God do its thing.
Phillip [00:00:35]:
These people, my understanding is that they're shutting off their brain. They're in a total place of stillness. Thoughts are basically, like, convoluting your ability to be in the present moment.
Mike [00:00:45]:
He needs to, bro. He needs to do something, bro. He's floating. It's like a floating log in a river, bro.
Tommy [00:00:50]:
It's like a backpack of rocks.
Phillip [00:00:53]:
It's weighing you down. So if you need that, Mike's the example of when he goes out.
Tommy [00:00:57]:
And first of all, I don't agree that exactly. That Mike is the example.
Eldar [00:01:08]:
So today's topic we would like to explore. Mike, you're gonna help me with this one. I mean, we formulated the question outside. It's pretty good, and thought it was really good. We'd like to talk about it.
Mike [00:01:18]:
I didn't hear it, so.
Eldar [00:01:19]:
You didn't hear it?
Mike [00:01:20]:
I wasn't on the walk.
Eldar [00:01:21]:
Okay. Phil, can you try to help me?
Phillip [00:01:26]:
We were talking about.
Tommy [00:01:31]:
Passion. Yeah. Right, yeah. Okay.
Eldar [00:01:33]:
Correct. Tapping into passion.
Phillip [00:01:36]:
Tapping into passion. You gotta refresh my memory. I'm a little.
Tommy [00:01:39]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:01:40]:
So, tapping into something that you're pretty much good at, but also that comes naturally to you.
Tommy [00:01:47]:
Right.
Eldar [00:01:48]:
And then if it comes naturally to you, we had a question around. If you started to do it with more of an intention.
Tommy [00:01:57]:
Right.
Eldar [00:01:58]:
Like, intended to do it like a.
Tommy [00:02:01]:
Calculated effort, will it come out the.
Eldar [00:02:04]:
Same way, or will it be the same thing?
Tommy [00:02:07]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:09]:
In your case, right, Mike? Yeah. You know, like, you naturally gravitate towards people, socialize like you social and stuff like that. You attract people towards you.
Tommy [00:02:17]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:02:17]:
And you have some profound conversations with them.
Tommy [00:02:20]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:20]:
Those profound conversations kind of come very natural to you.
Tommy [00:02:24]:
Yeah. Right.
Eldar [00:02:25]:
Like, I don't think you're going out there seeking it on purpose or trying to force the conversation.
Tommy [00:02:30]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:30]:
They do just come out naturally to you. So the question is almost like, if that's something that you like to do, should the. Should this be a calculated effort where you actually do it more, but not more so naturally anymore? And will it come out the same way?
Tommy [00:02:44]:
Right.
Eldar [00:02:46]:
Or will it be a little bit different? And then Philip came up with this. He heard of a study about the cells. Maybe you could talk about that.
Phillip [00:02:54]:
Oh, yeah. So, very interesting. It was a long time ago, so I don't know exactly what it was, but I just remember, like, one of those little petri dishes, and they literally had a microscope on a cell. They showed what the cell, like, how it was moving when it wasn't being observed, and it was just sitting there. And all of a sudden, people started to look at it, and it changed its shape, and it changed, like, the type of cell that it was, and it was doing different things. So it just kind of made me think, if you are doing something that you are passionate about, you're not being observed, nobody's looking, and you're just kind of in the flow versus you're putting conscious effort towards this, other people are watching. Maybe there's pressure, maybe, you know, there's a different type of, you know, awareness on it. Can you still enter that flow state and still be really passionate about it? And I think that was the conversation kind of where we left.
Phillip [00:03:48]:
Yeah, but I thought that that example just came to my mind. It was, I don't know, probably 15 years ago, when I. Wow, that is very interesting.
Eldar [00:03:54]:
Yeah, yeah. If that's actually true, that is very interesting. Why do cells, or maybe us, behave the way we do? Right, right. Like, I guess maybe the next question around that or the same example is, you know, how some people get into, like, when they act naturally, and as soon as you throw a mic at them or throw a camera on them, and they're like, they shut. Shut down and no longer can perform the way they do.
Tommy [00:04:16]:
There you go, some.
Phillip [00:04:18]:
But then there's other people who thrive.
Eldar [00:04:20]:
In those kinds of environments.
Phillip [00:04:21]:
So, like, where's that happy medium? Are you not exposed to it enough? So, to me, when you're asking Mike that question, it's, you know, you just haven't had that type of exposure to it where you're putting conscious effort on it.
Tommy [00:04:34]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:04:35]:
So whether you thrive in it or not, it seems like it's something that can maybe be learned, but how much of a natural inclination do you have to start? You know, you don't know until you.
Eldar [00:04:47]:
Do try, but I think it's interesting. So, yeah, so that's what we're talking about. And you obviously this is.
Tommy [00:04:51]:
Yeah, yeah. I don't. I.
Mike [00:04:53]:
You know what you guys saying it could be a valid thing.
Tommy [00:04:55]:
I.
Mike [00:04:56]:
When it's like a. More of a, I don't know, calculated effort, it may come out differently because.
Tommy [00:05:02]:
Like, you don't know what you're gonna get into your head. Right.
Mike [00:05:06]:
What are you gonna start, like, making.
Tommy [00:05:07]:
Up in your head?
Eldar [00:05:08]:
Like, what do you mean?
Tommy [00:05:09]:
When it turns into a calculated effort, you'll start making up stuff in your head.
Tommy [00:05:12]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:05:13]:
So good question.
Phillip [00:05:14]:
Like, you're letting thoughts take over is what you're saying.
Mike [00:05:17]:
No, I think that if you, like, when you start doing it with the mission, you subconsciously there's things that are happening that you're not noticing. Maybe you're setting some kind of goal. Maybe you're actually going out there actively seeking shit force and shit.
Tommy [00:05:28]:
Right.
Mike [00:05:28]:
Yeah, that could be like, a thing. Because now you're like, oh, this is my mission. I have to do it this. And now you're gonna go maybe potentially for something versus naturally you're gonna be in your natural element, which is just to do that, to gravitate towards versus now it's like, maybe there's a performance pressure, right. Perform poor on tests, right. Outcome, but they know the information, but they're bad on tests.
Tommy [00:05:48]:
Why?
Mike [00:05:49]:
Because the performance anxiety. The pressure anxiety, right?
Tommy [00:05:52]:
Yeah, sure.
Phillip [00:05:54]:
Like, so I think when you're doing it right, if you're gonna consciously do it, are you attaching a goal to it or you just going in to try to do it more? So I think depending on what type of person you are, like, you just seem like you naturally want to do it. So I think if you would be able to do it more and then add something to it, which would be, like, your added, like, conscious effort, I think it can be probably even better. But the point is, is it gonna get you in your head? Are you gonna be kind of rattled with the type of style of going about it and being maybe more heady or more thoughtful about it?
Tommy [00:06:29]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:06:29]:
Yeah, that's a good question.
Tommy [00:06:31]:
I don't know.
Tommy [00:06:32]:
I think right away the answer is no and no. What?
Eldar [00:06:36]:
It's not gonna change. It's gonna be the same.
Tommy [00:06:37]:
The idea with performance based thing, I'm thinking right away about, like, how stereotype in study is. It's been shown that stereotypes or like, a threat towards people who belong to a specific group or something and cause, like, performance changes. And in that case, it's a perceived threat. And so what I think is, what if it's just the negative things that we hear over time, you know, that bring us to not perform as well as we want to perform? So perhaps someone said, you know, yeah, I think.
Phillip [00:07:20]:
I think that's true. You know, I think that's definitely true. But, like, for Mike's situation, like, it's, it's still, you know, him in his head. So whether it's like a perceived stereotype, like, it's actually going to come out in the moment as a truth, like, in his action, right? Like, or not, we don't know. But I think you're just talking maybe about, like, a factor of it. Is that like, my understanding of it?
Tommy [00:07:45]:
Like the stereotype of it?
Phillip [00:07:49]:
No, I'm trying to understand exactly what you're saying.
Tommy [00:07:51]:
I use that idea concerning, you know, if you belong to a specific group, and then there are people who are saying certain things that kind of affect the way you perform in certain ways.
Tommy [00:08:04]:
Right.
Tommy [00:08:04]:
In, I don't know, doesn't matter in your classes. I think that's what it had to do. Like, test scores were shown to drop when people perceived a threat against their, in their, their particular group.
Tommy [00:08:16]:
Okay.
Tommy [00:08:16]:
Um, I mean, the same kind of reasoning just goes with, uh, if you've been told your whole life that you're nobody, and, uh, if you've been told that, you know, these things are. If you, you know, it's the negative talk that we hear that maybe gets in our way of doing things that we want to be doing. So I ask myself, how do you, how do you passionately do something and at the same time hear that negative talk? How can you, how is it possible to be passionate about doing something?
Eldar [00:08:48]:
It's impossible.
Tommy [00:08:49]:
Yeah.
Tommy [00:08:50]:
That's why I say no.
Eldar [00:08:52]:
That's a contradiction.
Tommy [00:08:53]:
Yeah.
Tommy [00:08:55]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:08:55]:
So we're talking about, like, doing like, self work and getting to the point of basically loving yourself so you can be in a state where you're doing something that you can genuinely do that's positive, putting out love and, like, getting love back. So if you're in that state where you're having constant self talk of hate and self loathing and, like, all these, like, you know, things from the past of people saying this and that, yeah, I think the answer is definitely no. I think it would be very, very difficult to establish a solid foundation of love, trying to attract more love when all the hate is coming into your head on a consistent basis.
Eldar [00:09:31]:
Yeah, but in our example with Mike, right. It's not a whole, like, external health. I mean, external negative thoughts or whatever.
Tommy [00:09:39]:
Right, right.
Eldar [00:09:40]:
It's literally him becoming maybe an observer of what he usually maybe does naturally, but now would like to do more of it.
Phillip [00:09:48]:
Right. So my understanding with Mike was it's, like, just thoughts like this, the idea of thoughts like, thoughts can just run rampant. Like, is that, like, to me, that's what I got from it, where, like, once there's emotions involved, there's maybe some pressure. Somebody's watching. Like, to me, that's the observation I think you're talking about maybe a specific example of, like, stereotypes and other things. And I do get that. But I think for Mike, like, Eldar saying he has a natural inclination to do this, already there is a passion towards it. Like, he's coming from a place of passion.
Phillip [00:10:19]:
He's established that in his life, he can attract people, talk to people about everyday things when, like, the conversation starts with sports or food, like, it can go to something very deep and spiritual, religious love or something like that. So very naturally. Yeah, very naturally. So Mike's already doing this thing. So Mike has this established foundation where we can do it. So to me, like, the scientific experiment is, if Mike starts to put conscious effort on this in order to say, I want to do this more and have more of it in my life, what type of effect will it have on him? Will pressure and thoughts come and negatively affect it? Can it possibly affect it and make it even, like, more fine tune and sharp? Or, like, he can be a guru and, like, go travel the world and, like, get paid for it? Like, you know what I mean? Or is it. Is he going to go the opposite way and is he going to have less interactions, be more in his head and being secure about it?
Tommy [00:11:11]:
That's right.
Phillip [00:11:12]:
To me, those are the two.
Eldar [00:11:13]:
That's right. That's a very.
Tommy [00:11:14]:
Well, what if we take, like, a case that's worse than Mike's? Like, a scenario where none of the things that he does now are not. Are present? So imagine someone who's just, like, uncomfortable, say, being surrounded by two people who he doesn't know when it's just you and me. Right. If we're just the two of us, friends. And what if that person was just afraid to be heard, afraid to be seen, but has this passion and has no. Has that inability to be perceived pursuing that passion?
Phillip [00:11:51]:
Yeah, I think we're just talking about, like, yeah, I think we're just talking about, like, individual experiments. So, like, that would be, like, an individual experiment with that person. But again, like, Mike. Mike's situation is unique because he's coming from that place of love. So I think the other example, it would probably be tougher to gauge because, like, this person's not really interacting and doing it already. Like, they're kind of nervous.
Tommy [00:12:13]:
That's interesting.
Tommy [00:12:14]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:12:14]:
I think.
Tommy [00:12:15]:
How does love play a role in that pursuit to live a more enlightened life?
Tommy [00:12:21]:
Yeah.
Tommy [00:12:21]:
Is that right?
Phillip [00:12:22]:
I think you can do it for any example. That's why Mike was this.
Eldar [00:12:26]:
No. Yeah, yeah. Because we were talking about it. Mike wanted to kind of expand on it to see what he actually wants to do to where he recharges and enjoys himself.
Phillip [00:12:32]:
Right.
Eldar [00:12:33]:
And we kind of identify certain things that he's good at. It naturally comes to him.
Tommy [00:12:36]:
Right.
Eldar [00:12:37]:
And my whole thing was like, what will actually happen? My question was, what would actually happen if you did it more consciously.
Tommy [00:12:44]:
Right.
Eldar [00:12:45]:
Where you have an actual direct effort towards doing something like that.
Tommy [00:12:48]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:12:49]:
In most of your interactions versus just maybe some.
Tommy [00:12:52]:
You know what I mean?
Tommy [00:12:53]:
What if it was? What if it's not about the effect, but it's more about the actual action and the process of living in that moment, you know? Because maybe that's part of the negative self talk. I don't take action because I perceive that the effect should be this. But these. This desire to do it has already sort of turned me away from pursuing that. That idea. Because the negative self.
Eldar [00:13:19]:
Well, that's what we're talking about. We're talking about that thing that comes in. You see, you're already fast forward at everything he might not be experiencing that we don't know whether or not that's going to be the case for Mike.
Phillip [00:13:29]:
So that's the extreme. So we're talking about the two things that could possibly happen with Mike, right? Like, so let's say we're not. We're not taking. Talking about this mic right now, where he just goes in a natural flow state. He doesn't think about it. So the example is a mic that's going to be observed. He can go one of two ways. And the example that I said before was he can basically go and thrive and, like, be a guru and go, like, travel the world and, like, go speak and attract people all over the world to come have them buy tickets and watch him go at a seminar or have a book or something.
Phillip [00:14:00]:
Then the opposite end is he goes from talking to people on a day to day basis to, like, you know, curling up in a ball, going to shell, staying to his house, and never wanting to connect with people again. So, like, to me, like, if you. You're almost like you're putting yourself out there to be more vulnerable, and it's maybe taking his skill or his natural inclination to connect with people to the next level, but you're putting it out there for the world to see.
Tommy [00:14:23]:
So to me, I think that's the most essential part of it.
Mike [00:14:25]:
I guess we have to agree. You're trying to. Maybe the way I picture it is like, imagine you have a kid who's ten years old, eleven years old, he loves playing basketball.
Tommy [00:14:33]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:14:34]:
And all of a sudden you're like, you know what?
Eldar [00:14:35]:
You're pretty good.
Mike [00:14:36]:
I'm gonna make you an NBA player now. Your parents put you on the friends. Everybody's molding you to this NBA legend, right? NBA player, yeah. And that's like. Kind of like. Not to say I'm an NBA legend, but, like, in a way, but that's out there. Outside factors are trying to push you towards this. Kind of, like, get you ready for this big stage, you know? But you may not like it because, like, you just enjoy playing basketball, right? Just shooting around, playing ball, playing with your friends.
Mike [00:15:06]:
Three and three, four, four. But you don't want to go to fucking practice. You don't go to fucking massages. You want to go to rehab, you don't want to go to basketball clinics, you know? So, like I'm saying like, that. That's kind of like a sporty example where it's a little bit. Maybe more.
Phillip [00:15:19]:
I get it, though.
Tommy [00:15:19]:
But you.
Phillip [00:15:20]:
But you. You're an adult and you love this now, but you're that.
Mike [00:15:25]:
I'm an adult.
Tommy [00:15:28]:
I think I should have been more specific.
Phillip [00:15:30]:
Phil, you.
Tommy [00:15:31]:
Maybe you're not familiar with my way of speaking, but sometimes I just say.
Mike [00:15:35]:
What language are you?
Tommy [00:15:36]:
Sort of nice, quick responses. No, maybe these things are a little bit time based. Let me just say that I think that the process that is essential, which you highlighted, is to put yourself out there and that those other things like traveling or being a guru, they actually put the effect before the cause. You see what I mean? And the cause being the process. So if being a guru and all that is where you ought to be, then, like. Or we could call it the ideal or something like that.
Tommy [00:16:11]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:16:11]:
There's just spectrums. I use those, like, two spectrums. Like, he can. He can pick whatever he wants.
Tommy [00:16:16]:
That's sort of the cause of the problem in a way.
Tommy [00:16:19]:
These are.
Mike [00:16:19]:
He's just given two extreme examples what this could lead to.
Phillip [00:16:22]:
Right, exactly.
Mike [00:16:22]:
But we're trying to understand more. So the thinking behind a one direction versus another.
Phillip [00:16:27]:
Yes. We want to understand the thought process and, like, what can potentially happen.
Tommy [00:16:31]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:16:31]:
What's stopping me from becoming a guru or what's stopping me from becoming a recluse? Let's say in this example. Exactly.
Tommy [00:16:37]:
I thought right away, like, consider that, like, when we've talked about this before. Right, Yves? When you, like, when people, like, they aspire to get so high, like rich billionaires, so on. I mean, maybe we don't know this for sure, but some aspire so high, they get there and they realize they're not happy at all. Like, they wish to actually return to a better self that existed at an earlier time. And so I think, like, well, if, if maybe it is that idea of the ideal holding us back. And I think it's sort of similar in its, in its sort of way of discouraging us. Like just sort of stopping us in our tracks, saying, like, well, like, I'm only 1% there. Let's just say it's not a number or it's not a.
Tommy [00:17:30]:
It's not a career, it's not that ideal life. I'm just 1% there. And I think we're also kind of discouraged by hearing people say, like, t says, this is how you should live your ideal routine. And t says, these people are like hypocrites.
Tommy [00:17:51]:
Who's t?
Phillip [00:17:52]:
Oh, totally.
Tommy [00:17:53]:
Okay.
Mike [00:17:53]:
Yeah, this is a.
Tommy [00:17:54]:
He said to us on one of our, one the episodes. Gotcha. They preach these things that they don't do. I don't know if that's true.
Tommy [00:18:04]:
Okay.
Tommy [00:18:04]:
Some people might not do what they claim to do or claim is right for others. You know, I guess I think we all slip up. Like, we'll wake up sometimes and we won't, we won't work out or we'll wake up late, you know, that's one that I heard, jaco, that the special forces guy say, I woke up, like, not at 430 today. I woke up, woke up late today. I was really bummed out. He's like a really disciplined guy.
Mike [00:18:36]:
So use that word around me.
Tommy [00:18:38]:
I think that contributes to the idea, right. It's the little things that might contribute to the bigger things later on. So we have to understand what's going to be that picture of a better life for me within like a reasonable framework, you know, like a better life might mean you have a stock of coffee so that you're not spending 550 at your local third world 3rd, 3rd wave coffee shop, for example. For example, you know, 550 a day on a latte, which is like at.
Phillip [00:19:13]:
Least three recently cold brew. Those are, like, $10. You turn me onto those.
Tommy [00:19:19]:
Exactly.
Phillip [00:19:20]:
You're off of those.
Tommy [00:19:21]:
Yeah.
Tommy [00:19:21]:
So, you know, what are we talking about here? Are we talking about bad habits? Because the ideal is not really getting us anywhere. You know, like, the possibility of a future has to be process related. We have to start there.
Mike [00:19:35]:
Very good.
Tommy [00:19:36]:
Very good.
Mike [00:19:37]:
Tom, I don't say anything, what you said, but very good. Yeah, I was.
Tommy [00:19:43]:
Sorry. Go ahead.
Phillip [00:19:44]:
No, yeah, you're talking about, like, examples. But, like, I think I get, like, I get what you're saying, but I think with Mike, Mike's example, like, again, like, specifically talking about Mike, he's coming from a good place, and then we're just using two examples. So, like, I think what we wanted to do was dive into, like, the psychology of, like, what happens in that process.
Tommy [00:20:06]:
And so is it within Mike or without Mike, for example? Well, can we talk about that? Is it this world that's holding Mike back, or is it Mike that's.
Phillip [00:20:14]:
Well, I don't think anything's holding him back, because he's naturally doing this thing.
Tommy [00:20:17]:
Right.
Phillip [00:20:17]:
So he hasn't even done the other thing yet, which is doing hypothetical.
Tommy [00:20:22]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:20:23]:
This is a hypothetical hypothesing.
Tommy [00:20:26]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:20:26]:
So what we're doing right now with Mike is we're saying, what if he did this? So just picture, like, he's going out, he's connecting with people on a day to day basis. He's going to the gym.
Mike [00:20:35]:
I'm doing Stockholm standards, and people everywhere I go.
Tommy [00:20:37]:
Yeah. He's meeting people.
Tommy [00:20:38]:
How would that translate in terms of, like, the mental process of doing it? Like, what kinds of.
Phillip [00:20:45]:
That's the conversation.
Tommy [00:20:46]:
We don't.
Phillip [00:20:46]:
We don't know what it is yet.
Eldar [00:20:47]:
We don't know. And, like, what dictates it? We don't know. So I think, like, if Mike became the observer of himself performing.
Tommy [00:20:55]:
Yes.
Tommy [00:20:55]:
What would happen, for instance, if I said I could be a billionaire, then I'm already creating a problem by. You're already creating a supposition that that's.
Tommy [00:21:05]:
That.
Tommy [00:21:05]:
That me would exist in a certain. Certain way. Or what is that me? What is this? What is Guru Mike? Or what is, for instance, like, I don't know, superstar Tom or something like that.
Phillip [00:21:17]:
So you're saying creating what is image of yourself to work towards is a negative. Is a negative thing.
Tommy [00:21:22]:
I have to say. Yes.
Phillip [00:21:23]:
Okay.
Tommy [00:21:24]:
In certain respect, maybe reasoning could tell us I would live a better life doing so and so, and therefore I would be living that better life. But saying, um, I don't know. You know, it's funny. What if we just said, mike, who's a world class running athlete, who is the best running runner in the world, and if he strove, or if he were to strive towards that, would that kind of be the same? Or this be already so specific that we could just say, okay, it's passionate for him to think that and to do that.
Phillip [00:22:00]:
I get what you're saying, but I think with that thought process, it's negatively labeling the experiment that we want to do, and it's deterring us from then exploring it. So what's going to happen is, like, if you're saying that using the example of, like, guru versus, like, just going up into a ball, if you bring up the billionaire example. So, like, the billionaire or the guru, like, aspiring to be whatever it's going to be, if we just think that's negative off the bat to me, we have to just talk about the process, and, like, those are just examples, maybe.
Tommy [00:22:31]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:22:31]:
We're just trying to get to, like, the psychology of, like, Eldar said, he's going to be the observer of his thoughts in this. So, like, we want to understand in that moment when you're Mike, you're out of that flow state. You're bringing in the observer in the situation, you're adding another person. How is that going to affect the situation? So we want to talk about, like, the actual thing and not so much get caught up on, like, the two extreme examples, which I just kind of put out there to, like, have an end point on each side. But we don't have to. We don't have.
Eldar [00:23:03]:
Yeah, we don't have to get caught up. Tom, don't worry about it being a good. He'll bring you in.
Tommy [00:23:06]:
I'm not that good at it.
Mike [00:23:08]:
You can call me every time.
Tommy [00:23:09]:
Yeah, I'll say I wanted to be an actor for some time, and I.
Phillip [00:23:13]:
Thought about this, and I thought making.
Mike [00:23:14]:
An official announcement that you gave up on that dream.
Eldar [00:23:18]:
No. Okay. So you still.
Tommy [00:23:20]:
I don't desire it, but you still.
Mike [00:23:22]:
Might want to be one that maybe.
Tommy [00:23:23]:
The desire would, you know, put. Put me in action. But I did have that desire, and I sought out knowledge, thinking, that's kind of where I want my career to go. I want to actually be seen and stuff. It's a totally different mindset if you go into an acting class or if you're part of, like, some kind of theater. Um, the, like, process that one thinks about through character is very specific. And I'm reminded that when I see, actors sit with interviewers, and they are much less, for instance, like, uh, open than I'd expect them to be because they're such superstars. You enjoy watching them, but they frequently remind us, hey, you know, don't forget that the character that I play is actually just a character.
Tommy [00:24:11]:
It's pretty wild when you think about that. It's what we're saying is, like, to be perceived by others, we have to really create an abstract understanding of this. To be perceived by others might necessarily be like, just saying, hey, I'm into films, or I'm a writer, and just being able to own it.
Tommy [00:24:35]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:24:35]:
So then the next question would be in this case.
Tommy [00:24:38]:
Right.
Eldar [00:24:38]:
If something like that, that comes natural to Mike, should it be turned into more of a calculator push? Because it can probably ruin it.
Mike [00:24:48]:
Yeah, it could go either way.
Eldar [00:24:50]:
No, I'm leaning more towards the fact.
Tommy [00:24:52]:
That you won't be able to do it. Really? Yeah.
Tommy [00:24:55]:
In terms of calculated approach.
Tommy [00:24:57]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:24:57]:
Because he's not an actor. Actors actually try to manifest that character and be the character.
Tommy [00:25:06]:
Right.
Eldar [00:25:06]:
And that's why they're good at what they do.
Tommy [00:25:08]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:25:08]:
Your job is to fully immerse yourself in the psychology of another being.
Eldar [00:25:12]:
To trick the audience.
Tommy [00:25:13]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [00:25:14]:
So you're like, that's your job.
Phillip [00:25:16]:
So some people from the outside would say, like, oh, like they're kind of lying or like, it's not the truth. But from an actor standpoint, from an artist standpoint, like, you're able to become somebody else, and then you enter that flow state and other people are seeing you as somebody else.
Mike [00:25:30]:
Correct.
Eldar [00:25:31]:
However, this is a different scenario completely.
Phillip [00:25:34]:
Right.
Eldar [00:25:34]:
Those are people who are people that want to become something else.
Phillip [00:25:39]:
Mike wants to be himself, but just more of it.
Tommy [00:25:41]:
Correct.
Eldar [00:25:42]:
It's a different scenario completely here.
Tommy [00:25:44]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:25:44]:
So I don't think.
Mike [00:25:45]:
I don't think also, I think interesting to me is the question is, what is actually doing that rooted in? You know, I was trying to think about why do I gravitate towards.
Tommy [00:25:56]:
That was a different question. Yeah. But I think part of it, I.
Mike [00:26:00]:
Think knowing why you're doing something also has an effect on the outcome of it. If you stick to the, like, the goal.
Tommy [00:26:06]:
Right.
Mike [00:26:07]:
Not, not, not the goal, but the reason why you're doing it.
Tommy [00:26:10]:
And you find, like, I guess the.
Mike [00:26:12]:
Reason behind it, it's hopeful.
Tommy [00:26:14]:
Purpose. Purpose.
Phillip [00:26:15]:
But you just want. We're talking about you just doing it more. So the thinking really is just, you guess, consciously having more of these conversations. So, like, maybe even like, you just ran to Dunkin real quick, right?
Tommy [00:26:29]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:26:30]:
Maybe you just went real quick. Like if you thought, hey, I'm going to Dunkin like the first person that I see, I'm gonna consciously, I'm gonna go up to them and I'm gonna talk to them. Like, would that be more forced?
Mike [00:26:41]:
But yeah, I think, like, yeah, I think that's more, maybe more forced.
Eldar [00:26:44]:
Yeah, yeah.
Tommy [00:26:45]:
But can we also say maybe we don't realize we're passionate when we are actually passionate.
Eldar [00:26:52]:
Correct.
Mike [00:26:53]:
Correct.
Eldar [00:26:54]:
And that's, I think, what happening here, the times when you are actually in your flow state of just doing what you naturally gravitating to do and you're enjoying yourself in the process, I don't think you're conscious of it at all.
Phillip [00:27:04]:
No, I think you're, you're totally just oblivious to everything else and you're in the moment.
Tommy [00:27:08]:
Correct? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [00:27:10]:
Which I think. Which I think. Which I think can be ruined if you start to observe yourself.
Tommy [00:27:15]:
Right.
Tommy [00:27:15]:
If you become self conscious, because then.
Phillip [00:27:20]:
You'Re out of that state.
Tommy [00:27:21]:
Right? Yeah. So, so it is very interesting, I.
Eldar [00:27:29]:
Think based on what we talked about, if we deduce that the observer can sometimes ruin the moment.
Tommy [00:27:35]:
Now reverse that.
Eldar [00:27:36]:
To say the observer observes negative bad.
Tommy [00:27:40]:
Habits that we have, is that the.
Eldar [00:27:44]:
Way to liberate ourselves from our bad habits?
Mike [00:27:48]:
But that's like, yeah.
Eldar [00:27:50]:
Being, that's like, yeah, that's, we're talking about. Let's just, we're just a plain simple, what we're talking about is a good habit of yours.
Tommy [00:27:57]:
Right. Which help.
Eldar [00:27:59]:
Well, it helps other people. It helps you. You are happy, they're happy. You better in their lives is just say, right. You're raising awareness and stuff. It's a naturally good, I think, habit.
Tommy [00:28:09]:
Right.
Eldar [00:28:09]:
And then you have bad habits. And those bad habits also, you're not conscious about it, but you just do them.
Tommy [00:28:16]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:28:16]:
They're natural.
Tommy [00:28:17]:
Right.
Eldar [00:28:18]:
As soon as you bring the observer to the bad natural habit, the bad one that starts to slow the good stuff. No, it doesn't ruin the good stuff. It removes the bad stuff because you no longer can do it.
Mike [00:28:30]:
So if, if you don't shut down.
Eldar [00:28:32]:
No, what I'm saying is that as soon as you raise awareness to yourself.
Tommy [00:28:36]:
And say, you know what, I'm gonna.
Eldar [00:28:38]:
Bring the observer with me, you know, during the bad habits.
Tommy [00:28:42]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:28:42]:
And negates the bad habit, you no longer can act naturally in that bad habit. You just can't do it. Okay. What happens is like the okay thing, right, though, that totally raised awareness about me right. I don't know if it's a bad habit or not.
Tommy [00:28:56]:
Yeah. Right.
Eldar [00:28:57]:
Let's just say it's a bad response, right?
Tommy [00:28:58]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:28:59]:
Sometimes when we meet, totally make fun of Mike or whatever. Mike will say, like, we'll say a joke to him. And he was like, okay. You know, kind of like he's pissed, but he's not. Kind of like he's frustrated or whatever. So totally started raising that awareness. To me, he's like, yo, this is what he does. Like, there's a reason behind why he says the things that he does say.
Eldar [00:29:14]:
Okay.
Tommy [00:29:15]:
Or whatever.
Eldar [00:29:15]:
So we started raising awareness, and I think he started observing that response, and he doesn't do it anymore.
Phillip [00:29:21]:
Mmm. Okay.
Eldar [00:29:22]:
It's natural. This is what we do as humans to one another.
Tommy [00:29:25]:
Right.
Eldar [00:29:25]:
We're pretty much make fun of one another, raise awareness about our bad habits or whatever, certain things. And then if we inspected it and like, yeah, I didn't like that about myself. Why am I doing that? And you don't have a good explanation.
Tommy [00:29:38]:
Why you do it.
Eldar [00:29:39]:
You're, you're trapping yourself and forcing yourself to change. Because you become the observer. Because you become totally for the moment. You become elder for the moment, because you're like, wait, where are they coming from? Like, am I an idiot here? Like, why am I doing this? Am I angry?
Phillip [00:29:54]:
So, so can we define the observer too? Because, like, in that case, the observer is actually thinking. But when I, when I think of the observer, though, I think of like, the, well, no, it's like your consciousness behind everything. Like that. That observer where, like, you're shutting your thought off.
Eldar [00:30:09]:
Well, first, when somebody's raising awareness to you, right. It's you thinking about it.
Phillip [00:30:14]:
Thinking about it.
Eldar [00:30:14]:
But next time, when we're not raising awareness to you and you did something, the observer is watching.
Tommy [00:30:21]:
Okay?
Phillip [00:30:21]:
So that's what we're talking about. That's the observer. Okay, so that's, that was my idea.
Tommy [00:30:24]:
Okay. Yeah. Okay.
Eldar [00:30:26]:
You know what I'm saying? So next time around, if you bring that observer with you, you bringing that awareness, and that awareness negates the negative habits if they're negative, especially if you coined it, or if you agreed with the people that it is actually negative.
Tommy [00:30:39]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:30:39]:
You're making an agreement with Toli in that moment, or at least Mike did. And then he's not doing it anymore, so he agreed.
Eldar [00:30:45]:
He's like, oh, yeah, like, why do I do that?
Tommy [00:30:46]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:30:47]:
You know what I'm saying? Like, do I need that? Like, does it serve me? Where is it coming from.
Tommy [00:30:50]:
Right.
Eldar [00:30:51]:
And if he agrees with Toli's theory or my theory about why he does it and he doesn't like that about.
Tommy [00:30:55]:
Himself going forward is gonna start bringing.
Eldar [00:30:58]:
The observer and he himself will remove those negative actions.
Tommy [00:31:01]:
Yeah. Negative habits.
Eldar [00:31:03]:
So it works the same way.
Phillip [00:31:05]:
So in the positive situation, bringing it out there, we're saying that it's only gonna cause negatives. It's already positive already.
Tommy [00:31:11]:
Correct.
Phillip [00:31:12]:
It's only gonna cause more of a strain.
Eldar [00:31:14]:
Correct. I think that it works in reverse as a paradox where if you're naturally good, why bring the observer? Enjoy yourself.
Tommy [00:31:21]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:31:21]:
Just be in the moment.
Eldar [00:31:22]:
Be in the moment.
Tommy [00:31:23]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:31:24]:
Don't be in your head. Go and play.
Phillip [00:31:26]:
Go and play.
Mike [00:31:27]:
That's what I was saying. Yeah, play those weird about those weird things that come into your head. You know, like, yeah, it's hard to explore. It was hard for me to explain it.
Tommy [00:31:34]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:31:34]:
But it was definitely felt like something is weird. When you now trying to put like a different kind of effort on something that comes naturally. You may mess it up for whatever reason. I guess this.
Phillip [00:31:44]:
So what about this example? Let's say, let's say like an NBA player, right? I'm watching NBA playoffs. Let's say you got a, you got a guy who's like, which is really good. So let's say he's, he's. When he plays basketball, like you're just having fun. Like you're a kid. Like you're just on the court, like you're doing everything. If, if you're, if you're, if you're good, right? So let's say you're a great, great player. NBA player, right? Your top player.
Tommy [00:32:04]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:32:05]:
So let's say this guy wants to improve his jump shot, right? So he's bringing, he's bringing in the observer, right? And saying like, I don't have a really good jump shot. Say a guy like Ben Simmons or something like that. Like a guy who like, was like, notably had a really bad jump shot, but he's a great player overall.
Eldar [00:32:22]:
So Ben Simmons, the guy with the mental health issues.
Phillip [00:32:25]:
Mental health, but, yeah, I think, like.
Tommy [00:32:26]:
Mental health a great player.
Eldar [00:32:30]:
You brought the wrong example.
Phillip [00:32:31]:
Okay, so maybe. Maybe a different example. So maybe.
Tommy [00:32:34]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [00:32:34]:
Whole breakdown. He's no longer having fun, dude. He's like a. He's clearly in his head.
Phillip [00:32:39]:
Okay, so maybe.
Tommy [00:32:40]:
Shit.
Eldar [00:32:40]:
Completely.
Phillip [00:32:40]:
So maybe a guy who like, just doesn't have a good jump shot. Maybe like, say like Shaquille O'Neal or something like that, with like free throws or something. He's like, a great player overall, has a great mental capacity. So, like, if he wanted to work on free throws, right, wouldn't he have to take himself out of, like, his flow state of being wrong stuff? And he's so. He's so, so he's. He loves basketball. He's in the flow state. He had to remove himself from that, fix something, bring in the observer, and then he can go back in and then play.
Eldar [00:33:10]:
He's doing himself injustice.
Phillip [00:33:12]:
He's doing. Okay.
Eldar [00:33:13]:
He's doing actually himself injustice.
Tommy [00:33:14]:
So he.
Phillip [00:33:15]:
So he shouldn't even worry about free throw.
Eldar [00:33:17]:
He should not be.
Phillip [00:33:17]:
Can you break this down, please?
Tommy [00:33:19]:
I'm a little lost.
Eldar [00:33:20]:
Well, it's a good example with Shaq. Very good example with Shaq, right? A person who's already good, he's like.
Phillip [00:33:26]:
One of the top performers in his.
Eldar [00:33:28]:
You will destroy everybody on the court. However, when it comes to free throws, he can make free throws. That means when somebody fouls you, it's.
Phillip [00:33:36]:
Part of the game.
Eldar [00:33:37]:
It's a big part of the game. But he's good enough, so he doesn't even need the free throws. If he did have it, great. You know what I'm saying? But his focus and concentration was never on free throws. That's not his game. That's not why he has fun. He has fun by bullying people inside, literally dunkin on you, putting his nuts on your head, like breaking the rim, all that crazy shit. You know what I mean?
Tommy [00:33:57]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:33:57]:
That's his flow state, and that's how he grew up, learning to play basketball. That's where he enjoyed himself. But if analysts, his teammates, coaches say, oh, you really need to work on, they start including doubts and stuff like that, and then they make an observer out of him to observe himself, and now he's throwing himself off.
Tommy [00:34:15]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:34:15]:
So he could potentially ruin his other parts of his game because of it.
Phillip [00:34:19]:
So this is where I think it gets really interesting. So, in the playoffs or in the regular season, they started to do a thing called hack a shack. Like, it was like an actual thing. So because he was so bad at these free throws, yeah. People would just start to foul him to try to make him have to make free throws versus being his flow state and dunk and be in the post. So if he was getting probably, like, the most free throws in the league or whatever it was at the time, do you still think it's not worth it for him to put conscious effort on that because it's becoming such a big part of his game?
Eldar [00:34:50]:
It might, however, as you can see that NBA ultimately ruled out this thing.
Tommy [00:34:57]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:34:57]:
They put bans on that, restrictions on that. Yes, do that. Because they found out that there's going to be plenty of big men that's not going to be able to shoot free throws. There's going to be plenty of people. So they don't do that anymore.
Phillip [00:35:07]:
Taking the natural flow out of the game.
Mike [00:35:09]:
Correct.
Phillip [00:35:09]:
Taking fans out of the game.
Tommy [00:35:11]:
Right.
Eldar [00:35:11]:
Realize doing is that they're putting logic into it.
Tommy [00:35:13]:
Right.
Eldar [00:35:14]:
By, you know, calculating that, you know, if I don't play my stars today, save them, I'll play them for playoffs, I'll win more games that way.
Tommy [00:35:22]:
Right.
Eldar [00:35:22]:
So it's now becoming a calculated, logical effort where the fans want the excitement, they want the flow of the game, they want the natural state.
Phillip [00:35:30]:
So this is interesting. So it's basically like in Mike's. In Mike's situation. Like, we can almost maybe like, let's say we break down a conversation with him and then, like, maybe you nitpick something of like, how he connects or something.
Tommy [00:35:40]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:35:41]:
Then he starts to think about it and then, like, he can maybe start focusing on, like, oh, like maybe my tone or maybe my volume. Like something so small.
Tommy [00:35:48]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:35:48]:
That you point out.
Tommy [00:35:49]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:35:49]:
And then it maybe deters him from getting into his natural flow state and.
Eldar [00:35:52]:
Then he fucks everything up.
Phillip [00:35:55]:
Right. Okay, so that's.
Eldar [00:35:56]:
Yes, but that's what you have to be kind of also your own man, I would say, you know, like in shocks case, you know, like, stand on what you believe in. Like, this is what I'm good at. I'm good at dunkin on.
Phillip [00:36:06]:
Like, you're paying me to get 30 points a game. I'm getting 30 points no matter what. I'm not working on free throw.
Eldar [00:36:10]:
Yeah, exactly.
Tommy [00:36:10]:
Yeah. Kill.
Eldar [00:36:11]:
I'm just gonna kill. Kill everybody.
Mike [00:36:13]:
You guys think that the observer is the ego or.
Tommy [00:36:15]:
No observer can be the ego, I think. Right, because.
Eldar [00:36:18]:
Yeah, contribute to it.
Tommy [00:36:19]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:36:19]:
Because what happens, I think that in the case of Shaq or whatever, whoever wants to kind of improve the unnatural state about themselves is that they're not okay with accepting themselves for what they already are.
Tommy [00:36:29]:
Right, right.
Eldar [00:36:30]:
The fun, the kid about them.
Tommy [00:36:32]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:36:32]:
The playfulness about them. I think that's when you start taking away. When you start taking yourself a little bit more seriously. And if you start taking yourself a little bit more serious, pigeonhole yourself. It's like a time. Yeah, you become a time, a struggle, an actor for life who's nitpicking every single thing. Before. Before creating YouTube channel, kid has talent, you could do whatever he wants.
Eldar [00:36:52]:
He'll be accepted. He wants to be accepted. But, you know, instead of 99 people, he wants to be more a hundred people, you know?
Phillip [00:36:58]:
So I would say that.
Eldar [00:37:00]:
So when it's, he's a waste of time.
Phillip [00:37:01]:
So when it's negative that you're, you're saying that the observers, the ego, but, like, when I think of the observer, I'm thinking of consciousness. So in the present moment, when you're in the flow state, would you say that, that the observer is consciousness?
Eldar [00:37:14]:
Like, there is no observer in that moment.
Tommy [00:37:16]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:37:16]:
I don't think that's that at all.
Phillip [00:37:18]:
So in the flow state, you would say, like, you're just in your natural state. There's nothing else.
Tommy [00:37:22]:
That's it. Yeah.
Eldar [00:37:24]:
I think you are the present moment.
Tommy [00:37:25]:
Okay. So to me.
Phillip [00:37:26]:
Okay, so I call the present moment, like consciousness. Like, that's what I'm saying. So, like, you're basically merged into one, essentially, like, right. Human and energy, your field, or whatever.
Eldar [00:37:35]:
You, whatever craft it is.
Phillip [00:37:36]:
So you're saying everything's one in that state. So that makes sense.
Eldar [00:37:39]:
So then I, the painter with painting. Right, with the shack with the brush, the mic with his conversations, everybody has those.
Phillip [00:37:45]:
So that's consciousness. You're just in your flow state. There's no other thing.
Eldar [00:37:49]:
You are. You are actualized.
Tommy [00:37:50]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:37:51]:
I understand that for the moment.
Tommy [00:37:52]:
Yeah. Okay.
Phillip [00:37:53]:
That makes sense.
Tommy [00:37:53]:
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.
Eldar [00:37:55]:
So as soon as you introduce awareness, whatever there is that you start observing and being aware of, I think that's when you kind of, kind of ruin it.
Tommy [00:38:03]:
Yeah, yeah.
Mike [00:38:03]:
I see what you're saying, but I.
Eldar [00:38:06]:
I think what I discovered, at least through my own conversation, listening to this, is that, um, if you use it, if you use this awareness to the negative habits, this is a great tool.
Tommy [00:38:18]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:38:18]:
It's a great tool. If you have enough humility.
Tommy [00:38:22]:
Yeah. Right.
Eldar [00:38:22]:
To be able to say, you know, like, what's, what's wrong with me? Like, what else can I tweak? What else can I smooth out my sharp edges and stuff like that. You find anger, frustration, all this other stuff.
Tommy [00:38:32]:
Right.
Eldar [00:38:32]:
And people are raising awareness and stuff like that to you. You know, you can, you, you can pick that stuff up and really carry that with you and see whether or not that's valid about you, and then you can start bringing that awareness yourself, your observation of that action that you're doing. And then next thing you know, you're like, wait, this is not good.
Tommy [00:38:53]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:38:54]:
So I think we're saying that really the only way to overcome any of your shortcomings, whatever they may be, is to bring them to the surface, whether we're all making fun of each other and, like, then we start to think about them. But if they're just staying inside, you're not changing anything at all. So to me, the humility comes from somebody bringing it to light or you bringing it up, whether you're talking about it or thinking about it. So the observers coming into play, you're putting it on the table, and then you're saying, like, I'm not going to do this thing anymore, or I'm going to have humility about it, and I'm just going to accept that this is wrong, and then I'm just gonna, like, you know, I'm not gonna do this anymore.
Tommy [00:39:34]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [00:39:34]:
If you can do it that way, it's great. But that's why I think the argument or a fight can ensue during that moment, because you should challenge to see whether or not your shit sticks or not. You know what I mean? But if you start hearing that you don't have a really good argument against the people that are raising awareness and stuff, you can't really defend yourself to the end with it properly.
Tommy [00:39:54]:
Then the gig is up.
Phillip [00:39:55]:
Well, that becomes, like, two pronged thing. There's a character element attached to it because you're saying, like, are you strong enough in your own, like, body and your own sense of self to say, like, no, guys, like, I actually think this. Or you're just gonna take every example that everybody says and just say, like, oh, okay, yeah, I'll change.
Eldar [00:40:14]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, you definitely want to. Yeah, no, you definitely.
Tommy [00:40:16]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:40:17]:
I mean, that goes back to being a people pleaser too, right? If you're very insecure about yourself and people start talking, yeah, no problem. I'll do this. I'll do that. I'll do this. I'll do that.
Tommy [00:40:24]:
Right.
Eldar [00:40:24]:
You know, no, you should definitely test the change. Change it only if you actually are in agreeance.
Tommy [00:40:31]:
You know what I mean?
Eldar [00:40:32]:
If that's what's being said and that what's being observed is actually negatively impacting you in such a way where you do want to make a change, but if you do, then if you bring that observer, you, it starts to change.
Phillip [00:40:43]:
I think when you go from people pleasing, I think it's hard to associate between both, knowing that if somebody brings something up, how do you know if it is something that is true to you or not? And, like, when do you know how to stick up for yourself or not? And, like, which ones do you, like, fight tooth and nail about?
Tommy [00:41:01]:
Or you.
Phillip [00:41:02]:
Do you just have an ego towards everything, or you just, like, a total pushover with everything? That's really, really.
Mike [00:41:08]:
I want to confirm it.
Phillip [00:41:09]:
So I think it's like I'm saying from, like, coming from, like, people pleaser mentality and talking about this example, it's when somebody's bringing something to light. If somebody's trolling you or your own flaws. Of your own flaws. Okay. I think it's really hard coming from, again, from a people pleaser mentality to say, which ones do I accept? And just kind of roll over and say, okay. And then which ones do I fight tooth and nail and say, like, no, I really feel strongly about this. And how do you know which one is which? Because if you're a people pleaser, there's an element of insecurity and, like, you're unsure. You're not really exercising a lot of courage in these moments.
Phillip [00:41:50]:
So I think to build that kind of strength to get to that point to then kind of differentiate between, oh, yeah, this is actually a truth for me, or it's something that I'm holding on to. That's not that. That, to me, becomes really difficult for somebody in that situation.
Tommy [00:42:05]:
I have a pretty good example of.
Eldar [00:42:07]:
This that, like, you better be able to answer this, because I fucking have the answer, bro. If you don't answer, I'm going to fucking delete everything you say.
Tommy [00:42:12]:
Wait, is this like a head to head verse? Is this a versus challenge?
Eldar [00:42:16]:
Yeah, go ahead, Tom.
Tommy [00:42:18]:
I'm fucking.
Phillip [00:42:18]:
This is Mortal Kombat fate, actually.
Tommy [00:42:19]:
I'm gonna.
Eldar [00:42:19]:
I'm gonna pay real close attention because when this shit you in my head.
Phillip [00:42:23]:
Mortal kombat fatality, for sure.
Tommy [00:42:25]:
Okay. Yeah.
Tommy [00:42:26]:
I woke up this morning, I took a sip of coffee. Sorry, I'm just starting from the very beginning of my day, I have this idea that feel when I come home.
Eldar [00:42:40]:
Before you did you understand the fucking question?
Tommy [00:42:43]:
Yeah, yeah.
Tommy [00:42:44]:
How do you differentiate between knowing whether or not, like, it's negative? Am I right?
Tommy [00:42:55]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got it.
Eldar [00:42:56]:
You got the ball over the.
Phillip [00:42:59]:
Slam dunk.
Eldar [00:43:01]:
This is the fucking air ball that he throws at the free throw.
Tommy [00:43:05]:
It's a really weird example, but, you know, when I come from Princeton, I feel like I'm coming home and I perceive a different mindset, you know? Or say, you're just, you know, driving.
Eldar [00:43:18]:
What do you mean by that? Perceive a different mindset? Can you explain what the hell you just said?
Mike [00:43:22]:
He plays the role of a rich. A rich aristocrat say you put on.
Eldar [00:43:27]:
A mask or you'll become an actor.
Mike [00:43:29]:
When he drives back. The mask is still on a little bit.
Tommy [00:43:32]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:43:32]:
So you. When you come back, you still want to.
Tommy [00:43:34]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:43:34]:
So pretend it takes you some time to like, Tom, we know you for who you are, and we humble you, we bring you back to earth.
Tommy [00:43:39]:
What you're saying is, like, your home versus your away, right? Or, like, if you take yourself from one environment and you put yourself into another, assuming that your former environment will extend into your new environment.
Eldar [00:43:52]:
Absolutely not, because we're not buying your shit, Tom.
Tommy [00:43:54]:
And what I'm saying is, like, I'm challenged a little bit by this thought that things are going to always be like they are at home.
Tommy [00:44:03]:
Do you understand?
Tommy [00:44:04]:
Whether it is my home is in Princeton or whether it is my home is in. Is in fair lawn. And coming home today from Princeton, I'm kind of reminded that, like, the vibes or whatever it is, the mindset, you.
Eldar [00:44:21]:
Can'T play the same tricks here, bro.
Phillip [00:44:22]:
The same.
Tommy [00:44:23]:
Yeah.
Tommy [00:44:24]:
The same way people are back. Back there aren't. Maybe I'm applying this idea about relationships with the people that I interact with at home to the possible people that I'll meet around here. You know, I think that really applies, because the situation will change in one local area in one way versus, like, another situation being in another.
Mike [00:44:51]:
When you're on your own within a strange company, you act differently versus when you're with.
Tommy [00:44:55]:
You know why?
Eldar [00:44:56]:
He's quite, quote unquote, likes to travel, bro.
Tommy [00:44:57]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:44:58]:
You know what I'm saying?
Mike [00:44:59]:
Hide over there.
Eldar [00:44:59]:
You can hide over there.
Tommy [00:45:00]:
That's a different thing.
Mike [00:45:01]:
Entire leather suits.
Tommy [00:45:03]:
But how do you know the difference? That's the thing. When you are faced with the challenge of knowing you are not in your house, for example, okay. You are not in the normal, like, environment that you're used to in the situations now. Well, people are a little bit more bitter. People are a little bit slower paced, faster pace. People are.
Tommy [00:45:21]:
I don't know.
Tommy [00:45:22]:
You know, think. Think like we have.
Mike [00:45:24]:
We all have that where we show different sides to different people. Like, yeah, but that's not talking about.
Phillip [00:45:30]:
Uncovering a truth that, like, you're trying to.
Mike [00:45:33]:
But that's what he's trying to explain.
Tommy [00:45:35]:
If we say.
Tommy [00:45:36]:
Say, you're just triggered. You know what I mean?
Eldar [00:45:38]:
Um, Tom, you like a little bit of this balance, right?
Tommy [00:45:41]:
Like, huh? This unbalance.
Eldar [00:45:45]:
It, like, this balance.
Tommy [00:45:45]:
I don't know.
Eldar [00:45:46]:
A little bit, but volatility.
Tommy [00:45:49]:
But, you know, I don't know.
Eldar [00:45:51]:
You crave it once in a while.
Mike [00:45:58]:
He likes excitement, adventure, and the thrill of another.
Eldar [00:46:04]:
That's a very good question. That's a very good question. And I think that you have to dig in the space of a people pleaser to find out why people pleasers act the way they do. And a lot of times is because they trust public opinion.
Tommy [00:46:18]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:46:18]:
Right. Already automatically, by default. You know what I mean? So they'll do whatever.
Tommy [00:46:24]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:46:24]:
Anything that they hear from anybody they like.
Tommy [00:46:27]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:46:27]:
They soak it all up. And the person who's more skeptical.
Tommy [00:46:31]:
Right.
Eldar [00:46:32]:
Who's not just gonna jump.
Tommy [00:46:33]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:46:34]:
He has the ability to, like, okay, cool. Like, who wants. Who has my best interest at heart here.
Tommy [00:46:38]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:46:38]:
Who can I actually trust? And I think trust is an extremely important factor there.
Phillip [00:46:43]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:46:44]:
If you have the ability to see that which is coming from, you know. You know the feedback that you're getting from somebody.
Tommy [00:46:52]:
Right.
Eldar [00:46:52]:
It's coming from a person who doesn't have a horse in a race. If you have the ability to see that past that, you should listen and pay attention, because if the person doesn't have a horse in a race, they don't give a fuck. Like, if you keep saying you're okay, okay. Like, if nobody really cares. You know what I'm saying?
Tommy [00:47:07]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:47:08]:
Then you're like, yo, wait a second. I can continue being okay, okay. Or I can see, like, why are they saying what they're saying?
Tommy [00:47:14]:
You know what I'm saying? Doesn't really matter. Yeah. That's true.
Eldar [00:47:17]:
In that moment.
Tommy [00:47:18]:
Right.
Eldar [00:47:18]:
Because I don't care.
Tommy [00:47:20]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:47:20]:
You know, you've been doing it for how long, right. For a very long time. Until totally finally raised awareness about it. Like, oh, shit, you. Right, like, you hit the nail on the fucking head. You actually do do this. And then we started to put magnifying glass as to why you do it.
Tommy [00:47:34]:
Right.
Eldar [00:47:35]:
You know what I mean? There was no horse in a race for us up until it just became very funny.
Tommy [00:47:39]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:47:40]:
And then it's like, oh, shit. You know what I mean? Where is this coming from? And you yourself just randomly banned it. I haven't heard you say okay in a long time.
Tommy [00:47:47]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:47:47]:
Why? You made the decision with a new thing.
Tommy [00:47:51]:
Right? Yeah.
Eldar [00:47:52]:
But you made it. We don't.
Tommy [00:47:53]:
We are.
Tommy [00:47:58]:
Let's apply the intention to this, I think.
Eldar [00:48:01]:
No, what I'm. Yeah, intention to, for sure. And, you know, obviously you want to be in the company of people who have your best interest at heart and your friends that you can trust and stuff like that. It's easier to make those decisions. You know what I'm saying? But not all the time. Even friends act out of ego less.
Tommy [00:48:18]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:48:19]:
Or pride less place.
Tommy [00:48:21]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:48:21]:
You know what I'm saying?
Tommy [00:48:23]:
It's.
Eldar [00:48:23]:
That's hard to distinguish. So I think that that's a good question. Like, when do you fucking know? You know, how do you know, how do you distinguish to when, like, I got to really pay attention to this and check more and go deeper. Or it's like, this motherfucker is an idiot. I'm not listening to the shit.
Tommy [00:48:37]:
Yeah. You know what I mean?
Eldar [00:48:38]:
Because you got to be careful because then your pride comes out, your ego also comes out. You might shut down certain feedback that's actually, you should.
Mike [00:48:46]:
Absolutely.
Tommy [00:48:46]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:48:46]:
Not being a layover and doing the opposite, that can also run you.
Eldar [00:48:49]:
That's right.
Phillip [00:48:50]:
Run you a totally different course also. That's not possible.
Eldar [00:48:52]:
100%.
Tommy [00:48:53]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:48:53]:
And that's why I think that in, this goes back to bring this back to relationships.
Tommy [00:48:57]:
Right.
Eldar [00:48:58]:
In relationships, this is a huge thing when it comes to, like, listening to your partner is gonna say to you, give you feedback, make comments about you, about your habits and stuff like that. There's certain things that you gotta, you gotta stand, you know, like the certain things about, you know, you being maybe a family person, right. Where you respect your family, you have good relationships and stuff like that. There's a reason behind you do what you do.
Tommy [00:49:21]:
Right.
Eldar [00:49:21]:
And the other person might say, oh, no, you being a pushover. You know, they taking advantage of you and stuff like that. You know, like, they might think that you're, you know, you're doing something for. Because you're being a simple whatever, but you have a different agenda. You have respect and stuff behind it, and you have something a bigger goal or whatever. You know, to have a good relationship, you got to be careful there.
Phillip [00:49:42]:
Those things, to me, are a lot easier when it comes to, like, family and relationships.
Eldar [00:49:46]:
So I think, because that one maybe you're grounded in.
Phillip [00:49:48]:
So I'm think, as I'm thinking about these, I think the things that you're more grounded in and the things that you have more of an understanding of. So I guess the big thing that we're talking about is understanding yourself. So I think me at, you know, 15 or 20 years old versus me at 37 years old, I guess. I guess the answer as it's coming to me, as I'm thinking, is really wisdom and experience, right? Like just life experience, right? Like knowing yourself more understanding kind of who you're around and understanding people in general, who has your best interest and all that. But at the end of the day, it's truth. And trying to understand truth for yourself and then in other situations, so it comes down to trust and all those other things can help you understand the form of how it's coming, whether it's in a relationship via communication, whether you're getting it on the, you know, tv or TikTok or however you're consuming it. But at the end of the day, truth is truth, and you have to dissociate or associate it with yourself or, um, you know, say, I can use this positively or negatively, but. Yeah, yeah, I was thinking, I just, I'm thinking about that out loud now.
Phillip [00:50:57]:
And age definitely plays a big factor in this. And obviously you have to be growing as you're getting older. Some people can get older and they can get sillier.
Eldar [00:51:06]:
That's the thing, you see. Then, then you can't, you can't attribute it to age.
Phillip [00:51:09]:
So to me, it's.
Eldar [00:51:10]:
Yeah, no, I think you use the word. It's true.
Phillip [00:51:12]:
It's truth.
Eldar [00:51:13]:
Truth. You said that. Yeah, I think it's true.
Tommy [00:51:16]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:51:16]:
If you naturally. Constantly installing truth into your mind, you're naturally gonna grow towards the positive. So you. Your outcomes will be better.
Phillip [00:51:24]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:51:24]:
They're gonna be more calculated, they're gonna be more pleasant.
Tommy [00:51:27]:
Right.
Eldar [00:51:27]:
And stuff like that, because you actually know what the fuck you're doing.
Phillip [00:51:30]:
So there's no superficial things attached to them that are like up and down.
Tommy [00:51:34]:
So.
Eldar [00:51:34]:
Yeah, I don't think it's necessarily age. Like you said, you have plenty of examples of fucking total.
Tommy [00:51:38]:
No, no.
Eldar [00:51:39]:
People that are fucking 80 years old. You're right.
Tommy [00:51:41]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:51:41]:
So it's. So it's being attached to truth and that's. That's steering the growth.
Tommy [00:51:46]:
Correct. Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [00:51:47]:
And that's. That's wisdom.
Tommy [00:51:48]:
Right.
Tommy [00:51:49]:
Or philosophy.
Tommy [00:51:50]:
Right.
Eldar [00:51:50]:
The love for wisdom.
Tommy [00:51:52]:
Right.
Eldar [00:51:53]:
So dig for truth and find the truth about yourself, the world, the reality, and then, so you can navigate yourself within it in a. In the most productive, best way possible.
Tommy [00:52:03]:
Yeah. You know what I'm saying?
Eldar [00:52:05]:
But obviously, we're not always our conscious about everything that is going on. That's why I think that friendship is a sheltering tree. Like that quote.
Tommy [00:52:13]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:52:13]:
Right. Because your friends can be on point in the moments when you're not and.
Tommy [00:52:17]:
Vice versa for them. Right. You have good friends. Yeah.
Eldar [00:52:21]:
The times when you're down, the times when, you know, the girls is rolling you over, you know what I mean? Telling you to ban all your friends, ban your family, members this, you know, for whatever reasons, you know, there's plenty of those reasons. Your friends can navigate you and help you there because they don't have a horse in a race the way you do.
Phillip [00:52:38]:
And you know, and you know that who your friends are by trust and then seeing results.
Tommy [00:52:44]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:52:44]:
Like, over time, of course, you know, what, do they have an agenda or don't they? And I think that trust can build as a result of seeing good, good examples.
Tommy [00:52:54]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:52:54]:
For example, if you get into a relationship, right. And this girl is completely okay.
Tommy [00:52:58]:
Sure.
Eldar [00:52:59]:
Maybe you, during the honeymoon, you together non stop or whatever.
Tommy [00:53:03]:
Right.
Eldar [00:53:03]:
But the honeymoon is done, Tommy. Okay.
Tommy [00:53:07]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:53:07]:
When the honeymoon is done, right. The girl is still very, I guess, maybe clingy and stuff like that if she really wants you to herself.
Tommy [00:53:15]:
Right.
Eldar [00:53:15]:
And doesn't, doesn't allow you go out there and spread your wings and be yourself and socialize with your friends and family members and stuff like that. You know, in that type of case, your friends can raise awareness and say, oh, what's going on with you? You know what I mean? But you, your mind or your ego or the other person might make it seem like, oh, they're being selfish, or they want you to himself or whatever. You know what I mean?
Tommy [00:53:37]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:53:37]:
So you might be even torn between what the fuck is actually going on here.
Tommy [00:53:41]:
Right? Yeah.
Eldar [00:53:43]:
So how do you, you know, how do you raise awareness in such a way where you convince the person that you actually are promoting their true best self?
Tommy [00:53:54]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:53:54]:
And that's, that's, I don't think that's an easy task.
Phillip [00:53:57]:
I think that in that example, it's just you just being yourself and just being in, trying to get, just being in that flow state.
Tommy [00:54:05]:
Mm hmm.
Phillip [00:54:06]:
And if they're not gravitating you gravitating towards you in that flow state, there's something off in them that you can raise awareness.
Tommy [00:54:13]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:54:13]:
And I think whatever that thing is, whether it's maybe something holding them back externally or maybe them being in their head for something, if you know that person.
Tommy [00:54:22]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:54:22]:
You know, in the relationship, that, to me, has to be communicated, and you can bring that up to them so they can be in the flow state also.
Eldar [00:54:30]:
Yeah, yeah.
Phillip [00:54:32]:
But if they're, you're in the flow state, the other person's not.
Eldar [00:54:34]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:54:35]:
I mean, you, you not being in the flow state also, you're both gonna be out of it, and then it's gonna both put you off kill for sure. So to me, it comes down to communication in that example.
Tommy [00:54:46]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:54:46]:
No, there's a lot that goes. I think there's a lot of variables there.
Phillip [00:54:49]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:54:49]:
So, Mike, does this help you?
Tommy [00:54:52]:
Does it hurt you?
Mike [00:54:54]:
No, it definitely help. It's definitely helpful. Definitely.
Eldar [00:54:57]:
Interesting, because, you know, you were talking about the passion. What should you be doing?
Tommy [00:55:01]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:55:01]:
Where can you get into. Into things that actually make you rest? That makes you happy, right?
Tommy [00:55:08]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:55:09]:
Prolonging those states.
Tommy [00:55:10]:
I have a pretty good example for.
Eldar [00:55:13]:
This, but I'm gonna let you say it.
Tommy [00:55:16]:
That doesn't come from me. It comes from an author named Julia Cameron.
Mike [00:55:20]:
And you cannot give these plus people these nobodies.
Tommy [00:55:24]:
And what she says is, yeah. If you think of yourself, if you're inner creator or your inner artist as a child, ask. Ask yourself, what if you were that child? If you are that child, what a child might need? And it might just be that, like, a child just needs, like, some simple things. A child just needs to be treated with love and care. And that just might mean, like, a child likes to go outside and run, or a child likes to, you know, like, draw with paper and pencil. And it's like that kind of thing that brings us to that humility, sort of that I. That's what I see. I see that we have this, like, chance to play, you know, like you said.
Tommy [00:56:13]:
Play.
Tommy [00:56:14]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:56:14]:
Fun.
Tommy [00:56:15]:
If you are kind to yourself, like, you would be kind to, like, a five year old kid.
Eldar [00:56:19]:
That's a good example, Tom. And I wish you didn't say the name. You just said it, that it's your idea. So at least I agree with you once.
Tommy [00:56:25]:
Oh, no, I'm not the artist. I was actually, right now I'm not the artist. Tom might steal. That's.
Eldar [00:56:30]:
I agree with that.
Tommy [00:56:31]:
But I like that because it brings us down to, like, earth kind of, you know, like, to a very, like, pure level of how do I treat myself with kindness. And that just might just be. That might just be giving just a little bit for you. For you, like, just allowing yourself the freedom to explore and try something that's, like, typically, like, not thought of as, like, a sexy or attractive thing. Yeah. Like, sitting in a room and, like, making, like, a. I don't. I don't have it here, but I made a key chain that.
Tommy [00:57:08]:
It's called a monkey knot. And it's like. It's just basically like a kind of knot around a. That's it. And it's a keychain that I created.
Eldar [00:57:17]:
It's not a cock ring.
Tommy [00:57:18]:
A me.
Phillip [00:57:20]:
Is it a monkey knot or.
Tommy [00:57:21]:
Yeah, monkey.
Tommy [00:57:23]:
No.
Mike [00:57:23]:
Kitchen.
Tommy [00:57:24]:
Oh, look, that might actually. It might actually discourage, like, these guys like to walk. That's for sure. That's, we've been walking for a long time. But it might actually discourage some people to say, hey, like, when was the last time I went out to the movies? Like, I like to do. I like to go to the movies on my own. And it's just a thing, a habit of mine. Like, I enjoy it.
Tommy [00:57:43]:
I have an AMC membership, um, and it might discourage some people.
Tommy [00:57:47]:
Right?
Tommy [00:57:48]:
Like, you know, I don't want to spend money on that. For instance, that's something that comes to mind often. Like, should I go out for this coffee? I love coffee, but should I go out and spend $5 right now? Um, coffee is not a good example, but something might be a good example, you know? Um, and that $20, right. It'll get me a few movies a month. Um, so it's not that, like, it shouldn't. It does discourage us sometimes, is what I'm trying to say.
Phillip [00:58:17]:
What have, what's the, what's discouraging, though? You were using walking versus movies. So what, what's discouraging about it? Like, what do you think? What's the difference?
Tommy [00:58:27]:
You guys walk the dogs, right? Well, have you ever, like, just gone for a walk without the dog, for instance? Like, the dogs need to walk. So that sort of, like, I mean.
Eldar [00:58:36]:
I mean, Mike and Philip always go.
Tommy [00:58:39]:
For walks without dogs, but we walk together as friends.
Phillip [00:58:42]:
So you saying it something that you like versus, like, something that we naturally like. So say, like, we like walking and you like the movie?
Tommy [00:58:49]:
Yes. Yes.
Phillip [00:58:50]:
So you're saying that what, what's discouraging about you walking versus. You're saying that there's something discouraged that can be discouraging about us going to the movies with you.
Tommy [00:59:00]:
Another thing from Julia Cameron. It could actually, what do you call it? It could alter your awareness, alter your mental state a little bit to go for a quick walk. Something I started doing, you know? Um, and I actually, I have good. A good, um, um, I've typically had positive effects from just going to walk talk.
Eldar [00:59:25]:
What are you trying to, I don't.
Phillip [00:59:26]:
Understand what's discouraging about it, though.
Tommy [00:59:28]:
Okay, so, um, that if I'm saying that the positive, the results can be positive, um, how can they be? What I'm saying is you might be discouraged in doing something. Doing something?
Phillip [00:59:43]:
Is that what you're saying?
Tommy [00:59:44]:
Not knowing that the results can be positive? I'm saying the results can be positive, but I don't know if I would say, like, you get this or no, no. What's something you detest?
Mike [00:59:57]:
You want to skip this question?
Tommy [00:59:59]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:00:00]:
Did you understand?
Eldar [01:00:01]:
No, I don't understand.
Phillip [01:00:03]:
I missed.
Eldar [01:00:03]:
Are you. I understood him. I understood your example about that lady, the artist.
Tommy [01:00:07]:
No.
Eldar [01:00:08]:
Yeah, that was a very good one.
Tommy [01:00:09]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:00:10]:
I think you were going somewhere with that, right? Like, how would you treat. Treat yourself if you saw yourself as a child and you saw that you, you know, all you need is kind of love, have fun and stuff like that.
Tommy [01:00:18]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:00:18]:
That's a hundred percent on point.
Phillip [01:00:20]:
But the ones that I'm having trouble with is that you were bringing up, like, two examples. You're bringing up that we like walking and that you like the movie. So what's the connection between the movies and walking and then what's discouraging about either one?
Tommy [01:00:34]:
Well, I actually absolutely love walking alone. And this is not to be cocky or anything, but I do love walking alone and being.
Eldar [01:00:40]:
Talking with that and. Well, the thing is, we walk together.
Phillip [01:00:44]:
He was saying he's the best walker in the world.
Eldar [01:00:46]:
Yeah.
Tommy [01:00:47]:
Yes.
Tommy [01:00:49]:
That's kind of what it.
Tommy [01:00:50]:
That's what I hear. That's what I sort of, when I say it, I'm like, well, that's not what we hear.
Eldar [01:00:53]:
I'm just saying we hear you being weird.
Tommy [01:00:56]:
Yes.
Tommy [01:00:58]:
Of going to walk or, you know.
Tommy [01:01:01]:
Okay.
Tommy [01:01:01]:
So I have. I'd say I have a number of good habits. I just. I try to maintain good habits.
Mike [01:01:07]:
This podcast calls Dennis Rocks, not Tommy Rocks.
Tommy [01:01:10]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:01:10]:
Here by.
Tommy [01:01:11]:
Yeah, yeah.
Tommy [01:01:12]:
I'm not exactly talking about habits, Phil. I'm talking about, like, there's no way.
Eldar [01:01:16]:
You can sell yourself on this fucking podcast. Yeah, we know all your bad habits.
Tommy [01:01:20]:
Yes. But go ahead.
Eldar [01:01:21]:
You can try anyway.
Phillip [01:01:23]:
You like walking by yourself, and you also like going to the movies by yourself.
Eldar [01:01:27]:
Correct.
Tommy [01:01:28]:
There. Yeah, there. Those are two things that I actually do to, like, just to.
Eldar [01:01:33]:
Was the last time you went to.
Tommy [01:01:34]:
The movie to alter my awareness.
Phillip [01:01:35]:
But what's discouraged?
Tommy [01:01:36]:
Um, a couple weeks ago.
Eldar [01:01:38]:
Wow. You like it so much that you went a couple weeks ago. When's the last time you went for a walk besides walking into this office?
Tommy [01:01:43]:
Um, yesterday, I think.
Eldar [01:01:45]:
You think?
Tommy [01:01:46]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:01:46]:
Something that you really like to do. You don't remember when last time you did?
Tommy [01:01:49]:
Yesterday, but I do remember.
Eldar [01:01:51]:
I'm not gonna get it. You're not gonna get it.
Phillip [01:01:53]:
I'm not gonna get.
Eldar [01:01:53]:
You not gonna get. You gotta drop it.
Phillip [01:01:56]:
I'm dropping.
Tommy [01:01:56]:
Yeah. You have.
Eldar [01:01:57]:
You have a team Tyson towards.
Tommy [01:01:58]:
I mean, Mike knows what I'm talking about.
Eldar [01:02:00]:
I definitely will not agree with that. Mike spill the fucking mic.
Mike [01:02:05]:
I don't know what you're talking about.
Phillip [01:02:06]:
Open up this can of discouragement.
Tommy [01:02:09]:
You better tell Mike.
Eldar [01:02:10]:
What are you discouraged about? I don't understand, Tom.
Tommy [01:02:13]:
Here.
Tommy [01:02:13]:
Here's the thing. If I just told you, hey, try doing anything. Just try doing. Just try juggling, and you say, okay, okay, I'll give it a shot. I'll take into consideration what this guy has just told. Juggling might make my life positive.
Tommy [01:02:34]:
Okay?
Tommy [01:02:35]:
Simple.
Eldar [01:02:36]:
A simp.
Tommy [01:02:36]:
Very simple statement. Juggling could possibly positivize, like, create a positive thing, like, just have a good effect on you. Right, but. And so you look for. Well, you don't have any tennis balls or anything, so you have. Have to find out, like, hey, where can I get some tennis balls?
Phillip [01:02:56]:
You know what I mean?
Tommy [01:02:57]:
And then it just starts to sound so ridiculous, because what we're talking about here is going totally out of your element, doing something that someone's suggested to you. There's all this stuff, you know? Like, that's what I mean is discouraging. It's just kind of. It doesn't feel like there's any value. Like, what value do you derive from doing something someone suggested to you? Spending money? Like, it feels like more of a loss. Like, I'm taking a risk here. Which example do I throw my $10 into a tennis balls? Is this gonna work?
Eldar [01:03:32]:
Yeah, but in which example, Tom, the.
Phillip [01:03:34]:
Walking doesn't have any of that.
Eldar [01:03:35]:
Yeah, like, it's yours. You do it alone. And movies. Yes.
Tommy [01:03:39]:
To my point, if you're giving away something, there's kind of discouragement. If you're say, I think we woke enough.
Tommy [01:03:47]:
Okay.
Mike [01:03:47]:
No, so.
Tommy [01:03:48]:
So if I told you, hey. Like, oh, hey, hey, cool.
Phillip [01:03:54]:
No, I'm trying to understand.
Tommy [01:03:55]:
Well, yeah, I think. I think that's the point. We're trying to understand what can possibly change in our lives if we were to actually just juggle or just take walks or just. I mean, it could be anything. You walk, you may not believe, right prior to that walk that there will be any positive effect. And if you, for instance, play with a craft or something, you may not believe that before. Before doing that, right, before engaging in some positive activity, that it'll have any consciousness aware raising effect. And I think this is a really good point because, like, in pursuing good habits, I'm not, like, incredibly improved or something like that.
Tommy [01:04:50]:
I'm not totally transformed by writing daily.
Eldar [01:04:57]:
Doing all the wrong shit.
Tommy [01:04:58]:
I'm not totally transformed by taking a walk, but I'm glad that I do sometimes in the moment, that's, that's pretty incredible. But when it results in something like creative work, I think the flow state, it reminds you. That's what reminds you. That's what helps you separate the two. So if I'm saying, hey, juggle, see how it goes, and if you're discouraged by spending $10, well, then you, you don't really know the difference because you don't have a chance to actually play and understand the flow state.
Tommy [01:05:29]:
Alright?
Tommy [01:05:29]:
So if that's a thing, if that's a thing, can we understand the flow state?
Phillip [01:05:32]:
Can, you know?
Tommy [01:05:33]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:05:33]:
I'm not making the full connection of everything, but I think the good example of what you made was going back to the artist and the trial and being in the flow state.
Tommy [01:05:41]:
Right.
Phillip [01:05:41]:
Like playing. So what comes to my mind, going back to the mic example from, from what you're saying is, ultimately, I think that maybe in a sense, we're underestimating the flow state and how much that we can learn in it. Meaning that the Shaquille O'Neal example, right. If he's in the flow state, he's gonna. If you're in the moment, you have, you have to trust that the moment can give you everything, right?
Tommy [01:06:05]:
That's right.
Phillip [01:06:06]:
So if you're saying that in the flow state, you're saying that in order for me to fix something, I have to come out of the flow state. I think what you're saying is you're not trusting life. So I think if you're trusting life enough, the goal should be to be in the flow present state as much as humanly possible. So, yeah, how do you, how do you stay.
Tommy [01:06:28]:
So the question should be, how do.
Phillip [01:06:30]:
You, how should Mike stay in the flow state more? And if the answer is thinking less and not putting any conscious effort on it, that's right. Then, then it should be okay. I'm gonna be in the flow state, I'm gonna connect with people, and while I'm in the flow state, I'm gonna be learning stuff through life. Like, I'm gonna be having all these teachers without me having to think. So I think it comes down to trusting the people that you're with, but ultimately trusting the present moment and the universe and the world. That's the, that's what I got from that, that example. All right, the mics.
Tommy [01:07:03]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:07:03]:
Does that make sense?
Eldar [01:07:04]:
Make sense to me?
Tommy [01:07:05]:
Yeah, I'll take it.
Eldar [01:07:06]:
That's what I think.
Tommy [01:07:08]:
Something about this stands out as stoic, but I don't want to, like, throw us off here. I do that there is. There's definitely something, whichever animal you want.
Mike [01:07:18]:
What's that statement they call, uh, don't be the dead horse.
Tommy [01:07:21]:
Yeah, dead horse. I think, Tommy, I think there's definitely.
Tommy [01:07:24]:
Something, something positive in what you've said, something optimistic in what you've said. And I personally feel, I think it's realistic. More than anything, I see flow state differently.
Phillip [01:07:36]:
Maybe a real.
Tommy [01:07:36]:
Yeah, maybe a realist, like a kind of realistic view. And, I mean, just to give an example, my roommate Al recently told me. What's up, alf? I know you're listening to this at some point.
Eldar [01:07:47]:
Oh, shit.
Tommy [01:07:47]:
Yeah. He listens to this podcast, which is pretty cool. He's a philosopher.
Mike [01:07:51]:
Is he understanding?
Tommy [01:07:52]:
Listen, he's a philosophy. Alp is a philosopher guy.
Tommy [01:07:54]:
Okay.
Tommy [01:07:55]:
God bless him. God bless you, buddy. You're my brother, man. He has said to me these words, don't be a realist. Don't try to live in real terms, essentially, because you're getting in your own way. In a way, I personally, my view of flow state is different, and I can maybe outline why I think it's different. But for me to be in flow state 100% or to strive to be in flow state 100% is. That's almost realist terms.
Eldar [01:08:29]:
And where is.
Tommy [01:08:30]:
And what is that flow state for me, let's just say it's different for us. Flow state might be.
Phillip [01:08:35]:
Can I ask you a question first?
Tommy [01:08:37]:
Four solid hours of work.
Phillip [01:08:38]:
Let me ask you a question, though. So do you. Do you think that flow state and the present moment are two different things?
Tommy [01:08:44]:
Everything.
Phillip [01:08:44]:
They're the same flow state in the.
Tommy [01:08:46]:
Present moment being two different things.
Tommy [01:08:47]:
Okay.
Tommy [01:08:48]:
Flow state, to me is. Is writing, which occurs and occurs freely and with no thought, with which I'm engaged and not distracted, is like I'm writing something that I feel pretty good.
Mike [01:09:04]:
Does it only happen in writing flow state?
Eldar [01:09:06]:
No, that's just, I could generalize and.
Tommy [01:09:10]:
Just say flow state. Isn't. Is a flow a state in which you're creating and there is dynamic or some kind of.
Phillip [01:09:18]:
What, is there thought in your example.
Tommy [01:09:20]:
Coming out of it?
Phillip [01:09:20]:
Is there thought or no thought float in flow state?
Tommy [01:09:23]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:09:24]:
Um, because that's me would be the difference. If you're thinking in that moment, that I would say that your definition of flow state versus the present moment are very different things. But if you're saying that all the things you're saying about writing, plus there's no thought, I would think that then we have the same definition, flow state.
Mike [01:09:41]:
You'Re saying it's like, more of like, a thing where you're kind of not thinking. You're tapping into, like, a universal thing.
Phillip [01:09:46]:
Yes, I think you're tapping into, like, you're, you're taking your true essence, all the things that you're naturally gifted with. You're, you're just fully immersing yourself into the world, and you're just being that in that moment, the kid at the playground, I don't think that writer writing thought.
Tommy [01:10:00]:
Yeah.
Tommy [01:10:00]:
Okay, so you, I don't mean to, like, you know, like, say you're wrong. I I'm not.
Phillip [01:10:07]:
No, actually, what your definition is, yes. It's not, it's not wrong or right. So your, your definition, I think flow state is work.
Tommy [01:10:13]:
And in a way, work can, I don't know, maybe present itself. It can, um.
Eldar [01:10:19]:
It can work that produces.
Tommy [01:10:21]:
It's not, it's not. Okay, so work for me, I guess. For me, it's work. Flow state is about. It does concern.
Tommy [01:10:29]:
Yeah.
Tommy [01:10:30]:
Like, uh, I mean, a flow state, it could be a routine that allows you to work, I don't know, to get into your flow state. Could it? You know, it could be with, I don't know, just, just having you engaging with your daily writing routine or engaging with, like, your morning meditation and then going to work.
Phillip [01:10:54]:
So you're talking about, like, to me, like, the steps leading up to it. But I'm asking, like, flow state versus the present moment. And I'm still unclear as to what you define each.
Tommy [01:11:04]:
As.
Phillip [01:11:04]:
To me, they're interchangeable because there's no thought involved in either. I associate flow state with, like, a writer who's just writing for hours, an athlete who's being an athlete. You know, whether you're in a relationship, you're just in love, and you're just two people just loving each other. To me, like, that's flow state without there's no thinking. And to me, when you're in that flow state, you're in the present moment. And to Mike's point, you're tapping into, like, consciousness and the world. You're fully trusting the world in that moment. You're being vulnerable.
Phillip [01:11:30]:
Your heart's out there, and, like, you're not worrying about being judged, you're not worrying about any outside factors. You're just in the present moment. We all have access to that. So what I'm saying is flow state, present state, to me, it's all interchangeable. But it seems like you have a different definition of both. But I'm not.
Eldar [01:11:47]:
I don't think so.
Phillip [01:11:48]:
Okay, the same, I think it's the same. Because he's saying he might have thought in one.
Tommy [01:11:52]:
No, no.
Eldar [01:11:53]:
I think he's just been a little confused.
Phillip [01:11:54]:
Okay, got it.
Eldar [01:11:55]:
No, I think that he.
Tommy [01:11:56]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:11:56]:
If you guys really define it, I think it's same as yours.
Tommy [01:11:59]:
Okay.
Phillip [01:11:59]:
That's what I think. Interchangeable. And I think flow state, it.
Tommy [01:12:04]:
It is possible to. To use thought, to observe. It's possible to use.
Tommy [01:12:10]:
I see.
Phillip [01:12:11]:
Then I disagree.
Tommy [01:12:11]:
I agree.
Eldar [01:12:12]:
See, now he's disagreeing.
Tommy [01:12:13]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:12:14]:
Now, but that's only because he wants to be different.
Tommy [01:12:16]:
Yeah.
Tommy [01:12:16]:
This could just be a fundamental difference in our beliefs. For sure.
Tommy [01:12:19]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:12:19]:
You're saying that you could be in two places at once.
Tommy [01:12:21]:
Okay.
Phillip [01:12:22]:
See, I think of you saying that, like, you.
Eldar [01:12:24]:
You were.
Phillip [01:12:24]:
You were using the example of, like, the things leading up to your writing in practice. I think that's.
Mike [01:12:29]:
He's trying to fake the flow state. Did you hear the example he used? He's used the example of writing.
Phillip [01:12:34]:
Writing.
Mike [01:12:34]:
He thinks he's a writer, but he's clearly not a writer.
Tommy [01:12:37]:
I do think I'm a writer.
Tommy [01:12:38]:
See, that's why he's able to be.
Mike [01:12:40]:
Two places at once. He's a writer, but who's actually not a writer.
Eldar [01:12:44]:
Therefore he's not actually a writer. He's an actor.
Tommy [01:12:47]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:12:47]:
And actors are the ones that could be in two places.
Tommy [01:12:50]:
One.
Phillip [01:12:50]:
So what we should be talking about is, like, the artist. That's where he had a great example, was an artist, a general artist. So it's not defining, like the whatever thing. So I think when you're talking about an artist in their flow state, whatever their medium is, whether a painter, they're a writer, they're an actor, they're a musician, whatever it may be, the way that I understand anybody in that world being in their flow state, and that's an artist example, is there's no thought involved. You are tapping into something bigger than yourself, and it's coming through you. Through you.
Tommy [01:13:20]:
That's.
Phillip [01:13:21]:
Whenever I hear any artists talk like that, whether it's John Lennon or Tupac, any.
Mike [01:13:26]:
Close my eyes, God, do its thing.
Phillip [01:13:28]:
Exactly. So all these, these people, my understanding is that they're shutting off their brain. They're in a total place of stillness, like Eckerdahl talks about, like being in the. In the now, in the present. So my understanding from him, Eckhart Tolle is the writer.
Eldar [01:13:42]:
He does Eckertoli.
Phillip [01:13:44]:
Eckertol.
Eldar [01:13:44]:
Eckhart Tolle.
Phillip [01:13:45]:
He does the power of now. And he had a new earth were his books, and the whole thing was basically talking about ego and being in the present moment, and how thoughts are basically like, convoluting your, your basically ability to be in the present moment. But the point is whether you're a writer, which he's a writer, actor, whatever, that flow state is achieved by having no thought and fully immersing yourself in the moment. Like right now, if I'm thinking about what I'm saying, I'm not in the moment, and I probably wouldn't be articulating my words as well as I would be whether now I'm just talking to you and I'm not really thinking about what I'm saying. I'm just saying what I, what I feel based off of what you're saying. And I'm questioning and I'm going back and forth. I'm in a more of a flow state now than I would be if I was thinking about it. If I was writing, hey, like, what should I be writing right now? To me, that's, that's like what we're talking about.
Phillip [01:14:45]:
It's that observer of maybe thinking about, oh, I have a bad habit or I have a bad thought. It's like, no, no, no. If you're a writer and you're in the present moment, that's when all the.
Tommy [01:14:54]:
Good stuff comes out.
Phillip [01:14:55]:
So, to me, when I hear about writers talk about writing, the hardest part is getting started. So I agree. Like practicing and leading up to all that, I understand. Correct.
Tommy [01:15:05]:
But once you're in that part is not doing anything at all.
Phillip [01:15:09]:
But that's not flow. So there's, to me, nothing. Flow state is related to any of the practice or any of the things leading up to the writing. Now, you can be writing and not in the flow state. I agree with that. But that's when a bunch of shit is just coming out. It's not good. So when you're in the flow state, all the good stuff comes out.
Phillip [01:15:26]:
That's my understanding from any writer that I've ever heard talk about writing in the flow state.
Tommy [01:15:31]:
The writers who I've spoken to all agree. This is, this is almost like the golden rule. To be good at it, you have to do it every single day.
Tommy [01:15:42]:
I don't agree.
Phillip [01:15:43]:
I don't disagree.
Tommy [01:15:44]:
I 100% agree with it.
Phillip [01:15:45]:
But we're talking about, we're talking about the habits.
Tommy [01:15:49]:
In order to do, in order to create, you must bring yourself to that chair. That's the point. The whole point is that often I, what I hear is, you know, that Socrates never is what will lead, but.
Mike [01:16:05]:
He wasn't right at all.
Tommy [01:16:11]:
I hear that that's what will lead you to doing it.
Tommy [01:16:14]:
Yeah.
Tommy [01:16:14]:
If you have, like, a positive habit that you. That you. You act on, like, if you have a positive habit that you. You do every single day, that that sort of starts the measure for what. What's consistent? The problem.
Eldar [01:16:31]:
The problem with, you know, forcing yourself to sit down and write and force.
Tommy [01:16:38]:
Yourself into a flow state.
Eldar [01:16:41]:
It's like, I'm not sure forcing is the result that you're gonna get the right result if you're forcing anything at any time. What I'm trying to say is that we underestimate, and we don't actually know how to get into those full states because of the fact that we underestimate that being so multidimensional as humans, how much nonsense we up against, how many problems we actually deal with.
Tommy [01:17:10]:
Yeah.
Tommy [01:17:10]:
And I think on the specific and might like more, the smaller. The smaller points that we. That we deal with, these kind of, like, you know, confusing. Confusing things.
Tommy [01:17:26]:
Okay.
Tommy [01:17:26]:
Like, to use my example that I can dealing with, like, going to school. For me, going to college is a strange thing. It's me being an adult in a classroom where I'm surrounded by teenagers or 20 year olds or whatever. If you just take that example of being in a classroom and learning something and having your schedule and being present in your classes and doing this thing for yourself, it's the little things, like, not fitting in or that being a little strange or what the.
Tommy [01:18:01]:
What.
Phillip [01:18:01]:
What's your definition of being present in the classroom, though?
Tommy [01:18:04]:
Like, just physically present?
Phillip [01:18:05]:
Oh, physically, yeah.
Tommy [01:18:07]:
It's. It's.
Eldar [01:18:08]:
It's those.
Tommy [01:18:09]:
It's those things, uh, that later.
Tommy [01:18:12]:
No.
Tommy [01:18:12]:
Despite the struggle.
Eldar [01:18:14]:
No, they won't, uh, uh, what I'm saying. No, they will not translate to success.
Tommy [01:18:17]:
No, no. Here, you know, here's the thing.
Eldar [01:18:19]:
Here's the thing, Tom.
Tommy [01:18:20]:
What I'm saying.
Phillip [01:18:20]:
This is going on a discipline here.
Tommy [01:18:22]:
What?
Tommy [01:18:22]:
No, no. What I'm saying is I learned.
Phillip [01:18:24]:
There's lessons.
Tommy [01:18:24]:
No.
Phillip [01:18:25]:
The first week that I started.
Tommy [01:18:27]:
Hear me out instead.
Eldar [01:18:29]:
Yes.
Phillip [01:18:30]:
No, it's not.
Tommy [01:18:31]:
It's not about success. It's not, it's not. It's just about the very basic fact of having had a. An experience that rewarded in some way. And I find knowledge as an absolute. To be an absolute reward.
Phillip [01:18:50]:
So why don't you just.
Eldar [01:18:51]:
Yeah, but not when you're sitting there, just your body's present, but your mind.
Tommy [01:18:54]:
That's my point.
Tommy [01:18:55]:
That's.
Tommy [01:18:55]:
That is absolutely my point.
Phillip [01:18:56]:
Well, you have to force for me, that's right.
Tommy [01:18:59]:
What I understand is flow state. Flow state has, in some ways, its way of being there and not being there. And despite whether or not you're sitting and you're doing the same thing.
Eldar [01:19:12]:
No, state can be very calculated. Like, it's, it's just. I told you, it's a matter of number one, understand about the classroom.
Tommy [01:19:19]:
Don't think about it through the class.
Eldar [01:19:21]:
Yeah, but then we made the example. It's about just being present, Tom, and not be fucking actually present.
Phillip [01:19:25]:
Yeah, you're just saying your body's. You're saying presence is you just being like attendance here.
Tommy [01:19:30]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:19:30]:
That's not present.
Eldar [01:19:31]:
There's plenty of people that are there, but nobody's actually there.
Tommy [01:19:34]:
Look, if we were all working at a company where flow state was a hundred percent necessary, and if you were not in your flow state, you'd get fired. Okay, just imagine what kind of like, environment you might be living in. Imagine what.
Eldar [01:19:48]:
That's a hypothetical. You can't even fucking reproduce. It's impossible, bro.
Tommy [01:19:52]:
I think about it like, you know, just say, just saying to myself, like, at times I'm not in my flow.
Eldar [01:19:59]:
State or trying to force yourself. It's like scolding yourself into having fun. Like, that makes no sense.
Tommy [01:20:05]:
I'm saying when I'm in my flow state, I'm definitely having fun.
Eldar [01:20:08]:
But yes, that's what I'm saying. But you can't force.
Tommy [01:20:10]:
Nevertheless, I know that I don't, if I don't act, I. I don't enter a flow state.
Eldar [01:20:15]:
You cannot. Entering a flow state is actually in a. You have to be in the process of removing. Removing things that actually don't serve you. And naturally, flow state will start occurring more to you when you don't have distractions that actually make your life harder.
Tommy [01:20:28]:
Here's the thing you understand then the.
Eldar [01:20:31]:
Flow states come more naturally because you actually are enjoying your fucking existence and your being. Therefore, the engagements that you get yourself into, writing, biking, walking, talking, whatever it is, become flow state. Like, because of the fact that you are enjoying yourself and you don't have other nonsense that you're fucking thinking about. So it's process, I think, more so of elimination and allowing yourself to actually have fun and justifying into your own head that it's okay.
Tommy [01:20:58]:
Good point.
Eldar [01:20:58]:
A lot of it.
Tommy [01:20:59]:
We don't have control over some things.
Eldar [01:21:02]:
You don't have control over this. That's why, that's why discipline for a lot of people is. It's key to know you're things out and trying to.
Tommy [01:21:12]:
We may not have. We may not have a choice about, you know, one thing or another happening in our lives, right?
Eldar [01:21:19]:
Yeah, but that's the thing. As humans, as a thinking being, you have the choice, right, and have the ability to think things through. Now, if you're not doing a good job of thinking things through, that's on you. That's not on anybody else. That's not the universe. That's not an empowered way of thinking. You constantly seeing that the world is oppressing you, and you are powerless. When you start thinking, you actually are empowered, and you have the ability to think things through so you can control more states.
Phillip [01:21:48]:
So to this example, if you do feel these kind of things, then it's almost necessary to have to put the things in place, like discipline and routine, in order to make things work, because you're fighting so many things coming in. So if he wants to be a writer, so if he has this, it makes sense, though. But this is how it makes sense, then I think maybe you'll get it like this. Because I. When I got it with the discipline thing, it just hit. But I realized I wasn't liking what I was really doing, and I wasn't really being myself. And I'm putting myself in these situations with all these, like, certain structures and routines in place and what's really serving me and what's not. And then, essentially, I was holding myself back from being myself.
Phillip [01:22:29]:
So, essentially, if you're writing or you think that you like writing and you have to put all these things into place, what I would do is bring the observer in and say, is writing really something that I do enjoy? Or maybe it is acting, or maybe it's something else. But if you have to start putting all these things in place, like discipline, routine, and associating them with being successful with writing, I don't think that that's the, that's the thing that's gonna serve you and put you in the flow.
Eldar [01:22:55]:
State.
Phillip [01:22:58]:
At least in the way that you're thinking about it now. It doesn't mean that you can. You can't be a writer. All I'm saying is the current way that you're approaching writing is not gonna get you in the flow state, and it's make. It's gonna make it a lot.
Tommy [01:23:09]:
I haven't said any way that I approach writing.
Mike [01:23:11]:
Whichever way you are approaching it, it's not working for you.
Tommy [01:23:13]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:23:14]:
Tom, know, the way that you approach.
Mike [01:23:15]:
You focus on being a writer, and instead of being a writer, tommy, your example.
Tommy [01:23:19]:
I am a writer.
Phillip [01:23:20]:
No, no, Tommy, your example.
Tommy [01:23:22]:
I'm focusing on being a writer.
Phillip [01:23:24]:
Your example was when you said about writing, all writers have to have to write every day and do these certain type of regimens.
Tommy [01:23:32]:
So you had to say that.
Phillip [01:23:34]:
You did say that was your example.
Eldar [01:23:36]:
You said every day.
Phillip [01:23:37]:
Your example was, writers have to write every day. So there is a certain discipline and routine or a certain idea of what you have of writers should be. You don't have your own right.
Tommy [01:23:46]:
So what I said, somewhat similar to what you said, you should strive to be always in your flow state. And in a way, if we just take what I said, it sort of applies to what you say. They're different. Of course, I I did say that. Writers say that in order to be able to manage your life, to be able to create something and live the rest of your life, you have to continue to write every single day. And that's sort of a way of saying you should strive to be in your flow state without really saying you should strive.
Eldar [01:24:20]:
Okay, so what if. What if there was a successful writer.
Phillip [01:24:22]:
That came out and said, I write for six weeks, and then I don't write for a whole year, then I'm done. So there's a lot of actors out there that do a movie. They film for six weeks.
Tommy [01:24:32]:
Okay?
Eldar [01:24:32]:
But for those.
Tommy [01:24:33]:
For those six weeks, I guarantee you they're chewing pencils. They're actually at that desk probably 16 hours a day.
Tommy [01:24:40]:
Right.
Phillip [01:24:40]:
So I just made an example of someone that doesn't write every day.
Tommy [01:24:43]:
I think that's the case, you know?
Eldar [01:24:47]:
No, I think we got somewhere, but. But Tommy's buck. The question is booking.
Tommy [01:24:51]:
The question is, Phil, it brings us back to, like, why do we do this?
Eldar [01:24:54]:
No, what are doing right now? Understands that we are actually attacking him. And he defend. Yeah, that what she does.
Tommy [01:25:01]:
No routines. I actually think it's about growth, development. I think it's about growth.
Eldar [01:25:07]:
And I know what you're trying to.
Tommy [01:25:08]:
Do, and it's got to be about growth and development. But the idea is that if you.
Eldar [01:25:12]:
Have a dream and you're gonna fight back shooting lasers.
Tommy [01:25:16]:
Yeah, it's very. It's.
Eldar [01:25:19]:
It's true.
Tommy [01:25:20]:
I think it's about where you desire to go in your life. My brother, he desired to be an actor, and he saw. I saw him grind better than, like, than anyone I've seen grind in my family. Like, he made that leap of being someone who's just chilling in his room playing video games to being in a feature film. That's a huge leap to me. A huge leap.
Eldar [01:25:42]:
I don't have to sit on Weinstein's lap.
Tommy [01:25:46]:
Personally. I didn't. I did not even have that ethic or whatever. I didn't have that word.
Eldar [01:25:51]:
But if you set him down, your brother, right, right now, and you actually examine as to what actually happened, you quickly find out that the reason and where he found that energy to actually focus, to actually do the shit, it's probably because he actually wanted to do it.
Tommy [01:26:04]:
That's nice. I like that.
Phillip [01:26:06]:
But that's what I'm asking you.
Mike [01:26:07]:
That's what the challenge is.
Phillip [01:26:08]:
What are you, that's what the challenge is with.
Mike [01:26:10]:
You don't actually want to do.
Phillip [01:26:11]:
You have to put all these things into place to make no writer.
Tommy [01:26:14]:
No, no.
Phillip [01:26:15]:
So you have a different philosophy than what these successful writers are saying is the philosophy. So you're.
Tommy [01:26:20]:
Wait, wait just a moment. What, what things into place?
Phillip [01:26:24]:
You're saying that writers have to have these certain things in place, right. They have to write every day. They have to do these certain things.
Tommy [01:26:29]:
To do certain things. Yes, they have to. They. It's an ordered thing. It's.
Phillip [01:26:34]:
You believe this for, like, a primary.
Tommy [01:26:36]:
Reason and a, like a first order and secondary.
Tommy [01:26:39]:
Us.
Tommy [01:26:40]:
First order, belief and secondary.
Phillip [01:26:41]:
So as a writer, do you believe that also?
Tommy [01:26:44]:
I believe that in order to write a book, you have to write. And so that's how it works. I have to write in order to write a book.
Phillip [01:26:51]:
You say tricky things.
Eldar [01:26:54]:
That's why.
Tommy [01:26:57]:
So take, take this from me. And he's gonna directly disagree. I think you're gonna disagree right away that, like, you don't write unless it's to get paid.
Tommy [01:27:08]:
What do you think? No, what?
Tommy [01:27:10]:
You don't write. You don't write unless it's to get paid. You don't write a book unless it's to get paid.
Eldar [01:27:15]:
We think about nothing about that.
Phillip [01:27:25]:
Answered nothing.
Eldar [01:27:26]:
That's why he moves.
Phillip [01:27:27]:
He answered zero questions.
Tommy [01:27:31]:
What I said today. So you can directly against this nonsense.
Eldar [01:27:34]:
To other people that he doesn't know. And they eat.
Phillip [01:27:36]:
It's the first time I understood what they were all saying. I understand.
Eldar [01:27:40]:
Now you get.
Mike [01:27:41]:
That's why I was trying to help you out to not be the dead horse. But it's good that you did, because now you understand.
Phillip [01:27:46]:
Now I think. Now I understand you.
Mike [01:27:48]:
Okay, good.
Tommy [01:27:49]:
But today, today I actually mentioned while we were eating lunch that it's possible to actually create things and not reading, not seek any payment, not seek any, any fame.
Eldar [01:28:00]:
That's why you should be the actor.
Tommy [01:28:01]:
That never did anything, never wrote anything, just have fulfillment.
Eldar [01:28:05]:
Watch it.
Tommy [01:28:08]:
Okay.
Tommy [01:28:08]:
So the idea is, how do you fill up this spiritual energy? And, and I think that's what, that's what matters. Can we say that you need spiritual energy to get into flow state before.
Phillip [01:28:21]:
We get to anything?
Eldar [01:28:23]:
No, you don't.
Tommy [01:28:24]:
You.
Phillip [01:28:25]:
You have to say, nice feel is.
Tommy [01:28:30]:
Good.
Mike [01:28:30]:
Phil, your.
Phillip [01:28:31]:
Your belief system is in line with these, these writers, or you have your own philosophy on it? Oh, I need to know yes or no.
Tommy [01:28:42]:
Oh, you're asking, do you have your.
Phillip [01:28:43]:
Own philosophy, or is your philosophy what the general, other writers pretty much have said, which is you have to write every day.
Tommy [01:28:53]:
Okay.
Phillip [01:28:53]:
And you have to do x, y and z in order to be that. Do you think that you can go off the beaten path and do your own thing as a writer, or do you think that you have to fit into that mold in order to be a writer? And as a result of that, can you be in flow state from that?
Tommy [01:29:08]:
That's a good question.
Phillip [01:29:10]:
Just you, not anything else. I'm just asking you not example of anybody else that you've talked to.
Tommy [01:29:17]:
The thing I would say is, I'm definitely more on the side of being in tune with my own self as a writer and the things that I want to express as an artist, rather than fitting the mold. But this is a difficult question, because to even receive that advice is to maybe be a little bit too meretricious, like, to have little effect, but to seem of importance.
Phillip [01:29:54]:
All right, I'm going to simplify it. Do you write every day?
Tommy [01:29:56]:
Yes, and I do that as a choice for what results in more positive energy in my life as well.
Eldar [01:30:05]:
You don't. What happens when I don't?
Tommy [01:30:07]:
I feel. I feel the difference.
Eldar [01:30:08]:
You feel bad, right?
Phillip [01:30:09]:
He said he writes every day, though, so he doesn't know what it feels.
Mike [01:30:11]:
Like, how many days he'd been writing.
Tommy [01:30:13]:
That's why I think that there are exceptions to the rule. That's why I think that it is.
Mike [01:30:18]:
Also somewhere outside the box.
Eldar [01:30:21]:
Cigarettes every day.
Mike [01:30:22]:
Exactly. Look, when I go to sleep, here's.
Phillip [01:30:24]:
Where I agree with t. T, if.
Tommy [01:30:25]:
You hear me, this is it. There are people who may say, following a super routine, as he said, is hypocritical. Hypocritical of them, and they don't do it themselves. Is this the same? Can we apply that reasoning? Like that idea, I guess, that we sometimes slip up or we sometimes don't do what we say we do or one should do.
Mike [01:30:52]:
It's very complicated, that question.
Tommy [01:30:54]:
You can.
Mike [01:30:55]:
You can say you are follow routine, but some days I don't. But it depends. Is that routine made out of discipline, out of love? And if it's made out of love, then you allow yourself to take routine.
Phillip [01:31:04]:
Where is it coming from?
Eldar [01:31:05]:
You don't have.
Mike [01:31:06]:
Harden yourself like you don't. If you want to write, you write everything.
Eldar [01:31:08]:
I try to turn out Tommy right now.
Tommy [01:31:10]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:31:11]:
I mean, he's. Yeah, he needs to, bro. He needs something, bro.
Phillip [01:31:15]:
It's coming from a good place, though.
Mike [01:31:16]:
He's floating. It's like a floating log and a river, bro.
Eldar [01:31:20]:
He's a floating log in driftwood. Yo, I'm getting your t shirt wood, Brock. Yeah, dude.
Tommy [01:31:33]:
That's how I see creativity. I see it as like a river. And, and being part of that river thing is, is accepting it in your life and allowing it, like you said, being present, I think, is about allowing that creative flow, that creative energy hearing us, or no creative energy to flow through you.
Eldar [01:31:51]:
No, you gotta understand Phil. Even though he doesn't hear us, his inner self, inner being understands us.
Phillip [01:31:57]:
That's why I keep going at it. And that is why there's something in there.
Eldar [01:32:00]:
Every time he comes back, every time he comes back from wherever he's traveling, he feels good and comfortable here. He can't understand it for himself. Why? Yeah, one day he will.
Phillip [01:32:08]:
Because that thing inside of him, he's not trusting it yet.
Tommy [01:32:11]:
That's right.
Phillip [01:32:12]:
That's what I'm trying to ask him. He's cut, he's contradicting. His words are contradicting the inside thing that I'm getting every time I'm asking you something. I think you do know the answer.
Eldar [01:32:23]:
Why do you think that's happening, though?
Phillip [01:32:24]:
He's not trusting himself, is it? But why is he not trusting.
Eldar [01:32:28]:
I'm trusting you.
Phillip [01:32:29]:
He's not trusting me. But I think there all the other factors and stuff that we were kind of. That he was talking about, we were talking about in the beginning, I think he's allowing those things to, to come into his thought process.
Eldar [01:32:40]:
No, it's him, bro. It's him.
Tommy [01:32:42]:
All those things.
Eldar [01:32:43]:
It's overall, that's his belief system and understanding of how things should be.
Tommy [01:32:47]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:32:47]:
And that's where his comfort zone is. He built this little fortress for himself.
Phillip [01:32:51]:
Yes, yes, yes. That's what we're, that's what we're basically fighting right now. We're fighting the force field.
Eldar [01:32:56]:
Hundred percent. That's been built over many, many years.
Phillip [01:32:58]:
It's very strong.
Tommy [01:32:59]:
It's good.
Eldar [01:33:00]:
No, it's not strong at all. It's weak as fuck.
Tommy [01:33:02]:
But.
Phillip [01:33:02]:
I know, but it's strong enough to keep, to keep going.
Tommy [01:33:06]:
Yeah.
Tommy [01:33:06]:
I think this is why it's important to ask what are these things and what if my expectations are a little bit too high of myself? See, my expectations of flow state are very low. And I understand that some things may not be clear, that along my path, sometimes I may not see the path very clearly, like between a number of options that I have to do, that I have of what to do in the next few months. For instance, there were a few things that I, there was, there was this trip that I was supposed to take this summer that I had striked down. It was very difficult. And I thought about it day after day after day that it's, those kinds of decisions like that will affect how you perform.
Tommy [01:33:54]:
Yeah.
Tommy [01:33:55]:
How you live your life. They'll have consequences.
Eldar [01:33:57]:
And so we don't disagree with that tomorrow. And so this, we just disagree on.
Tommy [01:34:02]:
How to get there.
Eldar [01:34:04]:
That, yeah, you want to do it. Force, I think what is, and we don't.
Tommy [01:34:08]:
That flow state, that's the difference. What are you happiest doing?
Phillip [01:34:10]:
It's important. The example. So if you need that Mike's the example of when he goes out.
Tommy [01:34:15]:
And first of all, I don't agree that exactly that Mike is the example.
Phillip [01:34:18]:
Mike. Mike is the example of what when he connects, wait, can we just call.
Tommy [01:34:22]:
Mike like Mike sub one or something like right now? So we can just say like Mike is a fictional being who like chat GPT is just designed to receive parameters.
Phillip [01:34:35]:
Yes, Mike sub one in this example.
Tommy [01:34:38]:
Yes, Mike sub one.
Phillip [01:34:39]:
Mike sub one goes out, he connects with people. He gets content without even trying. He's making all these connections. We're walking down the street, random trucks are waving at him. He's in Cape May, he's like getting dinners bought from, I don't even know what's happening.
Tommy [01:34:52]:
Right.
Phillip [01:34:52]:
This is the kind of guy we're talking, talking about. About, right? This guy, this guy could be the mayor of any town that he wants. He can easily be right now, if Mike wants to be mayor of Hackensack and he put his mind to it.
Tommy [01:35:03]:
Oh yeah.
Phillip [01:35:04]:
If he just said, I want to be mayor, he's being, he'll be in flow state for the next year, he will become mayor. He wants to mistake that these type of characteristics and people that are not, they naturally gravitate people. So this type of person in that type of flow state, that's the example of what we're talking about. So what we're asking you is, you know, when you're writing and you have to put all these other things in place, versus Mike, where he's not thinking, he's just going out. All these things are happening. It's like, is it coincidence? It's like, no, he's trusting in the moment and he's allowing his natural characteristics and gifts to shine without a purpose for a purpose. No, he's not thinking about a purpose.
Tommy [01:35:40]:
I think.
Tommy [01:35:41]:
I think the idea is that's why.
Eldar [01:35:43]:
We try to break it.
Phillip [01:35:44]:
But that was in the beginning, we were trying to figure it out.
Tommy [01:35:47]:
That focus can be purely, purely a reason to do something that you do as, as pursuit, you know, and that's important. I think that's what holds together my fortress. It's for this pursuit. That's what it is.
Tommy [01:36:05]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:36:05]:
And that's, that's the thing, right? Going into that, then what happens when you become so entrenched in these things? All you see is that negativity. All you see is the stuff that's gonna just keep holding you back. So you gravitate almost like with gravity.
Tommy [01:36:19]:
Right towards that stuff.
Eldar [01:36:20]:
And all you see is the negative looks and all these, like, people cutting them off and stuff like that. People that are focused in that state are going somewhere. We'll see nobody, they don't see any of that.
Tommy [01:36:29]:
It doesn't exist, you know what I'm saying?
Eldar [01:36:32]:
Just like, you know, to be what's.
Tommy [01:36:35]:
His name, I guess, non pc or whatever.
Eldar [01:36:39]:
But you know how people say about like, racism and all this other stuff and some people like that doesn't exist.
Tommy [01:36:44]:
Even why to them it doesn't exist, right?
Eldar [01:36:47]:
Lil Wayne said that, Morgan Freeman. Freeman said that. There's a couple of people said that, right? Because of the fact that they have, they know what they're doing, they're after it, and there's no, nothing else that's stopping them from doing that. So that stuff doesn't even touch them and negates them completely because that's such.
Mike [01:37:04]:
A low level for you thing.
Eldar [01:37:06]:
Correct.
Mike [01:37:07]:
You can't touch it. When you're on the, when you're on top and you're doing things in accordance with the truth, you're living a right life and you living, you know, in harmony.
Eldar [01:37:15]:
They got no time for that.
Mike [01:37:17]:
Time for that nonsense.
Phillip [01:37:18]:
Yeah, I get it, you know, but.
Eldar [01:37:20]:
If you are right, if you are so zoomed in on these little things, you will see it all. You will see all the dirt in the world, and the world is a very, then the world becomes a very scary place, right? And then you start becoming paranoid. And you're very careful building your little fortress to make sure you don't let anybody in.
Phillip [01:37:38]:
Yeah, well, the perfect example, I think, was when he was described, when Tommy was describing education and learning, and he was describing it, and I think he was trying to talk about all the stuff that he liked about it. He was actually naming a lot of negative things and actually describing struggle versus passion.
Tommy [01:37:56]:
That's right.
Phillip [01:37:57]:
So I think to your point, once you have, like, this lens over yourself and you allow all these. This self talk and, like, this negative things to come in, this is where I think you need the observer. And the observer is going to observe these negative thoughts, and they're going to bring them to the light and they're going to say, hey, why am I thinking about these things? Why am I letting these outside forces basically deter me from my flow state and doing my creativity? And I think once you allow that, that, to me is then allowing you to get to the flow state. It's to Mike's point, it's humility, not.
Eldar [01:38:29]:
Oh, yeah, there you go. You're going back to humility.
Phillip [01:38:31]:
Humility, ego and stuff like that.
Eldar [01:38:33]:
Yeah, but. But where do you have. Where do you have to be? And how do you have what you have to value in order to be able to be humble and to have that humility, to be able to receive the gifts of that which you're talking about, the truth, you see?
Tommy [01:38:45]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:38:46]:
You have to have a different guiding principle of life.
Tommy [01:38:49]:
That's right.
Mike [01:38:50]:
Which is to seek the truth, not to seek validation. Validation or ego or, you know, having all your pride over somebody. Ego over somebody.
Tommy [01:38:59]:
Or knowing somebody.
Mike [01:39:01]:
Tell me that somebody else doesn't know.
Tommy [01:39:02]:
To prove them wrong.
Phillip [01:39:03]:
Just stripping down all your layers, believing you're connected, but everything is you taking full accountability for you.
Eldar [01:39:11]:
Yeah, like, are you saying you are connected again, those words?
Tommy [01:39:13]:
Right?
Eldar [01:39:14]:
Like, yeah, it's like it's the Reiki world. Like, what are you saying?
Tommy [01:39:18]:
You know what I mean?
Eldar [01:39:18]:
It's not like you said in third grade. They said energy, like you. That's fucking weird hippie shit. You know? It's the same thing, like, until you really break it down to, like, rudimentary level.
Tommy [01:39:27]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:39:28]:
It's hard to understand where you're coming from. I understand where you're coming from.
Phillip [01:39:31]:
I'm saying that from like a molecular, like, cellular level. If you broke it down, we are literally connected and made of the same. We're made of the same things.
Tommy [01:39:39]:
Yes.
Phillip [01:39:40]:
We have different circumstances. We have maybe different upbringings, whatever it may be. But we're connected at a very deep molecular level. Then it's beliefs, ideas, and truths. And there's other things that connect us also.
Tommy [01:39:54]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:39:55]:
So we're connected by many things, so we can communicate. Those things, they're easier to communicate, but the molecular things, we have to almost, like, look under a microscope and we have to show that, like, hey, this wall, like, there's nothing here breaking. There's nothing separating us right now.
Tommy [01:40:08]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:40:09]:
The thing that, like, that's inside of us.
Tommy [01:40:10]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:40:11]:
We're all sharing that right now. It's a big pool.
Tommy [01:40:13]:
We're all in it.
Phillip [01:40:14]:
But to me, the truth, the virtues, the things that, like, we can communicate. We can have examples of those things, and we can say, hey, you know, there's a lie and there's a truth. Like, we can actually put words to that and it's easier to describe.
Tommy [01:40:28]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:40:28]:
But I guess I don't. I don't know. What was the difference of before? Like, the energy, belief, and then after, I don't know if it's something that just hit. I don't know if it was a word that struck or it was a visual. But now I just have that inner belief.
Tommy [01:40:42]:
So I don't know.
Phillip [01:40:42]:
Maybe I'm not describing it properly.
Eldar [01:40:45]:
Oh, no. I think that you. Yeah, you probably just have a lack of words, which we all do all the time when we have this experiences where we collect. We collect. You collected a lot of stuff that finally struck and made sense to you.
Tommy [01:40:55]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:40:55]:
You know what I mean? But to be able to explain your whole life experience, why you got here so fast, it's difficult to do.
Phillip [01:41:01]:
Yeah, I don't think I've ever probably thought about it in the sense of explaining it in, like, a podcast, 100% no.
Eldar [01:41:07]:
And you did good.
Tommy [01:41:08]:
You did good.
Eldar [01:41:08]:
You got the ball over the net for sure. But I'm just saying that to the general public, it's fucking mumbo jumbo.
Phillip [01:41:14]:
No, I get it.
Eldar [01:41:14]:
I think most of the things that we're saying right now to the general public would be probably mumbo.
Tommy [01:41:18]:
Yeah. That I get.
Mike [01:41:20]:
Most people have time for this kind of stuff. They think the priority in life, they think they're focusing on racism, valuable. Is actually meaningless. And we think what's meaningless is actually valuable.
Tommy [01:41:31]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:41:31]:
They're like, if I don't have to listen to this, like, I can get ahead. And it's like, get ahead to.
Tommy [01:41:34]:
What.
Phillip [01:41:37]:
Were you trying to get, bro? Yeah, that's right, brah. Like, whoever. Like, yeah, those guys.
Tommy [01:41:42]:
We're all good.
Eldar [01:41:44]:
Even though, you. You are the gatekeeper to the under that understanding.
Phillip [01:41:47]:
Yes, but that's what I'm saying. The accountability.
Tommy [01:41:50]:
Right.
Phillip [01:41:51]:
Like it's taking accountability.
Tommy [01:41:52]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:41:53]:
Having humility. And we're all saying it's. We'll talk about energy. We're saying it's the truth to keep it simplified.
Eldar [01:41:59]:
So this is what you value and this is what you're saying. That's what you gotta go out there, like you doing right now and took your shit. Yeah.
Mike [01:42:05]:
That's why she knows you guys got.
Eldar [01:42:08]:
To go out there and talk your shit.
Mike [01:42:09]:
That's why we got to keep bullying people, Phil. Hundred percent on and off the court.
Tommy [01:42:14]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:42:15]:
I mean, because if you know this and you understand and you believe in this, there's. I only see one.
Tommy [01:42:21]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [01:42:23]:
I mean, through these conversations. What do you think? I made the phone call to you, the first person that came to mind.
Tommy [01:42:29]:
Right.
Eldar [01:42:29]:
Is you because of the impression that you've made. And I know my abilities or what.
Tommy [01:42:32]:
I have, and I was like, I'm.
Eldar [01:42:34]:
Gonna put it out there. I told Mike, I'm like, yo, let me just give him a call.
Tommy [01:42:36]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:42:37]:
And now you're sitting here, you're benefiting, and I'm benefiting, too. And there's a mutual give and take relationship.
Tommy [01:42:43]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:42:44]:
Which both people are benefiting.
Tommy [01:42:45]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:42:46]:
And it feels great. Like, I already feel, what, four or five weeks in? Like, I feel really good. Like, overall, like, I feel like I'm giving value from a business perspective. Making a sale already, like, feeling good, you know?
Eldar [01:42:57]:
Okay. Keep it humble. Keep it humble.
Tommy [01:42:59]:
Sorry.
Mike [01:42:59]:
Yeah, humility.
Eldar [01:43:03]:
Yes, you do. It's a good sale.
Phillip [01:43:07]:
We're saying value.
Tommy [01:43:08]:
Right?
Phillip [01:43:08]:
Like, there's value from, like, a. But in these scenarios, communication, just being part of the group. But then also there's the. The business element where.
Eldar [01:43:17]:
Sure.
Tommy [01:43:17]:
That's.
Eldar [01:43:18]:
That's definitely, like I'm saying. I wasn't trying to say about. Okay, the business value.
Tommy [01:43:22]:
Okay.
Eldar [01:43:22]:
You know, I mean, I think the business value is gonna come, and it's gonna be ten fucking folds comparison to the little sale that you're talking about. You know what I mean? I just think that's where it's headed, and it's inevitable.
Tommy [01:43:31]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:43:32]:
I'm praising your character more than anything. Got it. You know what I'm saying? Like, in business, you still amateur. You know what I mean?
Tommy [01:43:38]:
So you'll feel. Take a.
Phillip [01:43:38]:
Take a character applaud.
Tommy [01:43:40]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eldar [01:43:48]:
You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, no, I was leaning towards. More towards the characters, you know, because it's. It works, and it's great. You know what I'm saying? I mean, even through listening to you talk about this stuff is already, like, it's just.
Tommy [01:44:02]:
It's.
Eldar [01:44:03]:
It's awesome.
Tommy [01:44:04]:
You know what I mean?
Eldar [01:44:04]:
And yes, yes, for sure, you're gonna get really good at that, too. And you will. And it's gonna be value there, too.
Tommy [01:44:10]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:44:10]:
A lot of it is. Again, but what we talked about earlier is that byproduct.
Tommy [01:44:14]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:44:15]:
The, like.
Tommy [01:44:15]:
Not to say, like, the goal is not that. The goal is something else.
Mike [01:44:23]:
And that's gonna come naturally.
Eldar [01:44:25]:
Yes.
Mike [01:44:25]:
You know? But it's doing the right thing.
Tommy [01:44:29]:
Right.
Mike [01:44:29]:
You're trying to live an examined life, trying to, like, examine your shit, and you're trying to live to a certain standard. Those things. Like, I'm not to say that they're trivial, but they're, in a way, they're like, they're just gonna come because they're not. I don't see them not coming. You know what I mean?
Phillip [01:44:44]:
I agree with that.
Eldar [01:44:45]:
That's why we have to go back to your incident that you had. Defender Bender.
Tommy [01:44:48]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:44:49]:
You know what I mean? Until you get to know me as a character, then you can, you know, you can relax a little bit and not be as paranoid as to, like, oh, what's gonna happen? This and that. Because, yeah, at the end of the day, you know, I mean, if part of me, maybe you haven't been listening, maybe you don't know me well, but what. What I value is supposed to be the key here. You know what I mean? To you, being like, I'm a PCI.
Mike [01:45:10]:
We had a funny little thing about this, actually.
Tommy [01:45:12]:
Oh, yeah.
Phillip [01:45:12]:
Yeah, we did.
Mike [01:45:13]:
I could tell you.
Tommy [01:45:14]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:45:14]:
So my. So now I'm understanding myself again, even better than usual. And it's my. I think I even told you, too. It's, you know, when you make a mistake when you're little and you have an example of, like, somebody scolding you or you have a certain idea, I don't want to make mistakes, and especially when it's somebody else's things, I always want to take. I always take really good care of my things, and when somebody else gives me something, I want to take really good care of it. So, like, I feel like I let you down in this.
Tommy [01:45:42]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:45:42]:
So, like, I was like, I don't even want to tell Eldar it happened. I want to go figure it out. And then I was like, no, you know what? Like, it's his thing. I have to ask him first and be honest, because he might want me to go to a specific place and let me not, like, you know, like, be stupid with it. So then, you know, besides the situation of me not handling it correctly in the moment where I should have took her information down, the point was, I went to Mike after, and I was like. I was like, yo, seriously, I know Eldar said, like, he. He wasn't bothered by it, but I was like, I said, you know him better. Like, do you honestly think, like, part of him is, like, a little upset? Because, like, I didn't want to upset you, and, like, he was like, do you think that he's not being honest with you? And I'm like, no.
Phillip [01:46:20]:
No, he definitely is. And I'm thinking, I'm like, no, you're not. But it's just really hard for me to accept somebody, to be really cool about a situation like that.
Tommy [01:46:27]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:46:28]:
And not, like, make a big deal, so it's me having to accept it.
Tommy [01:46:33]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:46:34]:
That, like, somebody cool.
Tommy [01:46:35]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:46:36]:
It's on you.
Tommy [01:46:36]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:46:37]:
Because at the end of the day, like, what are we talking about?
Phillip [01:46:39]:
Yeah.
Tommy [01:46:41]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:46:41]:
You didn't do it on purpose. Like, if you did it on purpose, I have a problem with it.
Tommy [01:46:44]:
Right. You know what I'm saying?
Eldar [01:46:45]:
But you did some shit like that out of spite. You know what I mean? Like, okay. Like, accidents fucking happen.
Tommy [01:46:50]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:46:50]:
You know what I'm saying? They happen, and they will continue to happen. She just blew the tire again.
Tommy [01:46:54]:
Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
Phillip [01:47:00]:
I was trying to even come from a better place and saying, I don't want to put it through insurance. I want to take care of it. I didn't even want to tell you because I'm like, I don't want, like. Like, everything's going so well. I'm like, fuck. I, like, messed up the car. Like, is this gonna, like.
Tommy [01:47:11]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [01:47:13]:
To me, this is even better that this happened.
Tommy [01:47:15]:
Okay.
Eldar [01:47:15]:
Because you get to know each other a little bit better.
Tommy [01:47:17]:
That's cool.
Mike [01:47:18]:
And we get to question your values.
Eldar [01:47:19]:
Yeah. We get to question your value.
Mike [01:47:21]:
Add some bad values, that is.
Tommy [01:47:23]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:47:23]:
You're saying that you value a tire over.
Eldar [01:47:25]:
Over relationship? A relationship?
Phillip [01:47:27]:
Like, yeah, no, no, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that. I'm not willing to accept. I'm not willing to accept that you. That somebody can be really cool in this situation, like, where I don't have to be super meticulous about you, but.
Eldar [01:47:43]:
Yeah, but see, but internally, that's. The truth is pointing to that.
Mike [01:47:46]:
Right.
Tommy [01:47:47]:
Relax. Yeah. Yes.
Eldar [01:47:49]:
It's a you thing.
Mike [01:47:49]:
It's pointing back to you, actually.
Eldar [01:47:51]:
I understand this and I promote this as best as I could, as conscious as I am trying to be in those moments, I'm trying to promote that.
Phillip [01:48:00]:
So you're saying the relationship with myself or the relationship with Elder.
Mike [01:48:03]:
Elder is a bystander here.
Phillip [01:48:04]:
So you're saying the relationship with the.
Mike [01:48:05]:
Only thing that you have a problem with yourself, that you are tied to keeping things perfect and this is coming.
Phillip [01:48:11]:
Out that I agree with. That's what I was trying to say with acceptance.
Mike [01:48:14]:
What we're, I guess with this lesson is trying to, but ultimately what he.
Eldar [01:48:17]:
Wants, he wants the acceptance that he never got. Maybe when he was younger and messed up certain things, he made accidents by accident, you know what I mean? Where he was scolded for.
Mike [01:48:25]:
Oh, yeah, of course.
Eldar [01:48:25]:
He ultimately wanted kind of an approval.
Tommy [01:48:27]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:48:27]:
Okay.
Mike [01:48:28]:
Uncle Giuseppe would slap around Uncle Joseph.
Eldar [01:48:31]:
You will slap him around.
Tommy [01:48:32]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [01:48:34]:
So when he comes, like, across me and my reaction, he's like, what the fuck? I'm flabbergasted. Like, so he has to go and double check with you whether or not it's an actual reaction.
Tommy [01:48:42]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:48:43]:
You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's not that serious.
Tommy [01:48:46]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:48:46]:
And like, if I'm putting, like I told you, like, if my dad is putting dirty dishes over our relationship with him, right.
Tommy [01:48:54]:
It's wrong. Hmm. I told you that. Example.
Phillip [01:48:57]:
No, I, example.
Eldar [01:48:58]:
For a week or two, we were having a good relationship, and then one day I was rushing somewhere. I didn't do the fucking dishes. And I come home and he's yelling to me about the dishes.
Tommy [01:49:07]:
I look at him like, dad, are you serious?
Eldar [01:49:09]:
We're doing so well. And now you talk to me about these dishes?
Tommy [01:49:13]:
Yeah. Nothing to say.
Phillip [01:49:14]:
Yeah, this, this is definitely a big one because everything, to me, like, everything's going great for, like, everything. Like, I'm, like, I'm loving work. I'm loving connecting.
Eldar [01:49:24]:
Sounds like you need a couple more fender benders.
Phillip [01:49:26]:
Yeah, this one definitely was like, like, oh, damn. Like I was.
Eldar [01:49:30]:
Look, you got a small one. Next one's gonna be bigger if you don't, if you don't calm down, because.
Phillip [01:49:33]:
I have to let it go.
Eldar [01:49:34]:
Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely.
Mike [01:49:36]:
All these things that, all the prisons, this is one of the many prisons.
Eldar [01:49:39]:
That you built for yourself, our friend. Yeah, I agree.
Phillip [01:49:42]:
No, I very much agree with you on this. And, like, thinking about the example, I kind of was thinking about it yesterday and asking myself, like, why did this happen? And I remember I was the, the woman came out of the car, and I remember, was she.
Mike [01:49:59]:
Be honest here. Was she really attractive and that's why you let her go?
Eldar [01:50:02]:
No, no, she wasn't.
Mike [01:50:03]:
If she was attractive, it was a higher chance of you letting her go.
Phillip [01:50:05]:
I mean, that's a whole different podcast.
Eldar [01:50:08]:
But my favorite is a mic.
Tommy [01:50:10]:
You're bad.
Mike [01:50:11]:
But what happened was, I'm busting him a little bit.
Phillip [01:50:13]:
But what happened was this, though. I knew that, like, where I grew up, like, in the town that I grew up, if those situations happen, somebody usually gets really, really angry. They usually get out of the car. They make all these crazy demands. What I was proud of myself in the moment was that I got out of the car.
Tommy [01:50:29]:
So you're from the hood?
Tommy [01:50:30]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:50:31]:
I looked at it and I was like, I looked at her and I said, like, oh, you know what? It's not a big deal. I was actually proud of myself that I did that. Now, I was disappointed that I didn't notice the dent because, like, I probably should have got an information just like a smart.
Tommy [01:50:43]:
Do you get into that? Like, you know what, I'm not going.
Tommy [01:50:46]:
To make a big deal.
Mike [01:50:47]:
I'll be nice about it.
Tommy [01:50:48]:
It's just so that you could avoid some sort of confrontation.
Phillip [01:50:51]:
So I know I'm like that. I think there's part of it. This is the part of it that, so picture this, like, coming home, like, after the walk, right? I wanted to go grocery shop and do the whole thing, so I had an agenda in my head, but ultimately, there's like 15 cars just kind of sitting there. I'm looking and I'm saying to myself, do I want to make a really big deal out of this now? Get a cop involved, make a police report, or, like, take all of her information down if it's just a little scratch? So I didn't see the dent. And I'm saying to myself, you know what? Yeah, I don't want to make a big deal. I don't want to have a confrontation that, like, doesn't need to be there. So I probably, maybe minimized it, to your point, as a result of not wanting to have the confrontation. But it, but what it did was it didn't allow me to look at the full scope of the car and really examine it, where then I could have probably made a better decision.
Phillip [01:51:34]:
So I think, to your point, I allowed the outside circumstance and maybe some pressure of timing and other cars and stuff like that to then say, hey, you know what? Just, I'm gonna sweep this under the rug and just maybe be the nice guy for a second.
Tommy [01:51:46]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:51:47]:
So. So, yeah, I do agree that part of it was there, but also part of me truly doesn't like to make big deals out of those situations.
Eldar [01:51:54]:
So there you go.
Tommy [01:51:55]:
You see that?
Eldar [01:51:56]:
You don't want to get into that anyway.
Phillip [01:51:58]:
Yeah, I don't.
Eldar [01:51:59]:
So you actually want somebody like me who's like, oh, it's not that serious.
Phillip [01:52:02]:
I do.
Tommy [01:52:03]:
So.
Phillip [01:52:04]:
But it was hard for me to accept that you actually exist.
Eldar [01:52:07]:
No, exactly. This is the same thing that's happening with you and Tommy right now.
Tommy [01:52:10]:
Ah.
Tommy [01:52:12]:
The same exact thing happened just two weeks ago.
Eldar [01:52:14]:
You need to calm the fuck down.
Tommy [01:52:15]:
I'm not fucking kidding.
Eldar [01:52:16]:
Yo, you had the mic for a very long time.
Tommy [01:52:20]:
This guy backed into my car, almost crushed my knees. He didn't see me.
Eldar [01:52:26]:
So I was literally not really hearing you. I told you to my speech.
Mike [01:52:35]:
Because.
Eldar [01:52:36]:
Why? Because you living out something else in your head.
Phillip [01:52:39]:
So the attachment of the past.
Tommy [01:52:42]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:52:42]:
Allowing me to live in your jail. This present.
Tommy [01:52:45]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:52:45]:
You cannot appreciate the moment.
Mike [01:52:47]:
You cannot appreciate you canceling the 18 appointments you have for next week or.
Tommy [01:52:50]:
No.
Eldar [01:52:51]:
And you can't take things for what they are saying that he has to continue to be the dead. Not trusting.
Phillip [01:53:01]:
Okay, so this is the thing. Has a Monday appointment, and I know that there's a pop possibility that I put a microperson.
Tommy [01:53:08]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:53:08]:
Part of me is saying to myself, even if it is less than a. Want to do it.
Tommy [01:53:13]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:53:13]:
That is that I'm gonna. Am I gonna crash again if I don't let go?
Tommy [01:53:16]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:53:16]:
If you get it done. If you get it done. I'll probably sit there like, yeah. I can't wait for him to get another one. You know what I mean? Yeah. Cheer for that.
Tommy [01:53:23]:
Like, he would.
Tommy [01:53:24]:
He would. So.
Phillip [01:53:25]:
Okay, right now, in this moment, right now.
Tommy [01:53:27]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:53:27]:
For me to fully accept this, if you guys tell me this, what it is, I will.
Eldar [01:53:30]:
I will definitely copy paste this little clip.
Phillip [01:53:34]:
The appointment that I was gonna have on Monday and the one that Mike, I have to basically say this done.
Mike [01:53:43]:
But you have to actually, we have to discuss and understand why it's done.
Tommy [01:53:47]:
Why.
Mike [01:53:48]:
What is the reason that this is not valuable? You have to understand it. And hopefully, with time, you make this your belief system that, you know, what things actually carry value and are worth getting, you know, worked up over. The things that you don't have to.
Eldar [01:54:01]:
Get worked up over. You know, I'm saying, if you. If you like, you come out of this, like, you know what I mean? Like, like we talked about Nate situation, right? When we sat down a year before, he cried to me, asked me like, yo, I want to work here. I want to be part of the team. I want to do all that, but I'm scared to leave my job and all this. I'm like, yo, no problem, man. No problem. I'll wait for you, don't worry.
Eldar [01:54:21]:
You know, when you quit, you know, it's all good. Then you could, come on. Eleven months pass. Twelve months pass, right? You finally quit.
Tommy [01:54:28]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:54:29]:
And I'm waiting for him, open arms because we still had a conversation. And then he goes interviews behind my back.
Tommy [01:54:35]:
You know what I mean?
Eldar [01:54:36]:
That shit that don't fucking play with me. You understand? Like, that's fucking backstabbing shit. You know what I mean? That's fucking ratty shit.
Tommy [01:54:44]:
That's. Okay.
Eldar [01:54:44]:
You know what I'm saying? No, this fucking minor shit. Fuck about that.
Tommy [01:54:49]:
The fuck.
Eldar [01:54:50]:
What are we talking about? A bumper that I never see?
Tommy [01:54:53]:
Like, who cares?
Eldar [01:54:55]:
Like, who cares?
Phillip [01:54:56]:
Look, okay, do you understand? Okay, now I. Everything they're saying, I totally get.
Tommy [01:54:59]:
I definitely learned this mindset from you.
Tommy [01:55:01]:
Elder, but let's take a.
Phillip [01:55:03]:
So let's take it. So do you understand my mindset? Even taking out, like, the spilled milk and maybe getting yelled at when you're a kid? But so do you also understand that maybe it's attached to this thing also, and it probably is that I want to take care of your stuff? Because to me it's like, attached to.
Eldar [01:55:18]:
Respect and that is, that is fine, but accidents happen.
Phillip [01:55:21]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eldar [01:55:22]:
Take care of my stuff. And I expect for you to be respectful and take care of my stuff. Yes, a hundred percent. Yeah, that would be very nice for you to be respectful and take care of my stuff however shit happens. This, to me was shit happens. This was not a calculated event, but.
Phillip [01:55:37]:
In my head, this is what will happen. Is that, like, in my present state now of, without accepting it, my present state would be like, okay, I'll put it away for a little bit, but then, like, maybe in like eight or nine months, like, I should definitely get it. Like, that's how my mind will work right now. It's like that. Eventually I should get it.
Eldar [01:55:52]:
This is, this, like, that's how I think that's the thing. That's, that's you. Because again, not understanding that in eight, nine months we might be doing like, like we were, we were hanging out and fucking electric lemon, right?
Mike [01:56:04]:
We're just chilling.
Eldar [01:56:05]:
We're already tired, exhausted. And he whispering to Catherine on the side, goes, hey, so, uh, when you're gonna try Venmo? You right now for the money, you know, like, what happens is a break of the moment. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you should venmo for sure. That's a good courtesy, you to say that reminder, like, that you don't have to do it right now.
Mike [01:56:21]:
Yeah, but he also has in place.
Eldar [01:56:25]:
Of course.
Tommy [01:56:26]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:56:26]:
It's like owing people and all this other fucking shit.
Tommy [01:56:28]:
And dead.
Eldar [01:56:29]:
I get it.
Tommy [01:56:29]:
I'm the same way.
Eldar [01:56:30]:
You know what I mean?
Phillip [01:56:31]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [01:56:33]:
But, like, it's not that serious. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not judging you based on, like, you're not gonna pay. Like, you have, like, you have, like, a track record of being like a, like a lally gagger or a liar. You know what I'm saying?
Phillip [01:56:44]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [01:56:45]:
Like, you on point with you, your shit. So, like, it's okay. Like, I get it, you know? But, like, what I'm saying is that in seven, eight months, this shit is irrelevant. We might be celebrating something, enjoying ourselves bigger wins. And you over there whispering like, you go get this fucking done. Like, it's ridiculous.
Tommy [01:56:59]:
You know what I mean?
Eldar [01:57:00]:
It's like a. We have bigger fish to fuck you. Don't you want to move us to.
Mike [01:57:05]:
Lunch and had a meaningful conversation that's worth more than thousands of dollars?
Tommy [01:57:09]:
Yes.
Mike [01:57:09]:
Instead, you went and you did Mama Luke shit.
Eldar [01:57:11]:
Correct.
Tommy [01:57:12]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:57:13]:
For 2 hours doing God knows once.
Mike [01:57:14]:
And what kind of get a job done. And he didn't get the job.
Eldar [01:57:17]:
You know what I'm saying? Talking about, I'll get it done. You know, I got two estimates. Yeah, smack me in the face.
Tommy [01:57:23]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:57:24]:
Exactly. $2,000 damage. You know, like, that's true. Food we had. Yeah, we did.
Tommy [01:57:30]:
We tried the new Korean.
Eldar [01:57:31]:
Oh, yeah. Which was popping. You were hungry, nuts, and Mike's fucking.
Phillip [01:57:36]:
Anybody tried the bone broth with no noodles yet?
Tommy [01:57:39]:
No, but they got the ramen.
Tommy [01:57:40]:
No.
Phillip [01:57:41]:
Okay.
Tommy [01:57:41]:
They got the ramen.
Eldar [01:57:42]:
So you know what I'm saying?
Phillip [01:57:43]:
No, so it is.
Tommy [01:57:44]:
It is.
Eldar [01:57:45]:
Again, at the end of the day, it's putting knowing kind of on the fly and understanding what you should put.
Tommy [01:57:50]:
Value on, you know what I'm saying?
Eldar [01:57:52]:
And if I'm talking shit, you should hold me accountable if I said the things that I said on record or off record. You should say, hey, you should hold people accountable to those standards, you know, without having to even check with Mike. Hey, is elders really about that life, the way he's talking? You know what I mean? You should be able to be comfortable, say, hey, like, you. You'll see me do this all the time. When people say, talk out of their ass, I'm like, oh, you said that?
Tommy [01:58:14]:
What happened?
Eldar [01:58:15]:
You ain't about that life.
Tommy [01:58:16]:
You know what I mean?
Eldar [01:58:17]:
I'll call people out and say that stuff. You should call me out and tell me about this. If I ever come around and be phony, I would hate to be phony. That would be the worst thing for me. That's not what I'm about or that's not what I preach. That's not what I want my friends.
Phillip [01:58:30]:
To be that I totally get, I guess it's just I'm so deep rooted in my little system.
Eldar [01:58:37]:
It's a sickness.
Phillip [01:58:38]:
My system right now is sickness. My system right now is everything that you just said. I do believe you, but my system is overpowering in saying that I have to fix that.
Eldar [01:58:48]:
His system is saying the same stuff.
Tommy [01:58:50]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:58:50]:
He has to continue doing what he's doing.
Phillip [01:58:52]:
I understand.
Eldar [01:58:53]:
Even though he might understand you, he can't do it.
Tommy [01:58:56]:
You're a sinner. Yes.
Eldar [01:58:58]:
Against yourself. You've been sinning for a very long time. You've conditioned yourself to respond this way, to these things. So I'm an anomaly in your world?
Phillip [01:59:06]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I never said this is not supposed.
Eldar [01:59:08]:
To be this way.
Phillip [01:59:09]:
You've never been, like, the example that you are right now, how you dealt with the situation. I haven't dealt with that in my own personal life yet.
Tommy [01:59:17]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:59:17]:
So you're the first example that I've had in this.
Tommy [01:59:20]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:59:20]:
In this world of, like, making mistake and just being like, no, everything else is more important. Don't worry about it.
Eldar [01:59:25]:
I was like, yo.
Phillip [01:59:26]:
What? Like, I was anticipating you, like, maybe being, like, upset and, like, kind of being like, hey, I told you it hurts me more.
Eldar [01:59:33]:
It hurts me more for you to say something and not do it. Like a promise to me, for example.
Tommy [01:59:37]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:59:37]:
Versus a fucking dent in the car and accidentally got it. I mean, but it should, and it should be for everybody.
Tommy [01:59:43]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:59:43]:
Because that's, that's what really carries weight, you know?
Tommy [01:59:47]:
What do they say?
Eldar [01:59:48]:
You only have two things in your end in your. In this life. You, James, word, you, word, in your balls. And I don't break any for anybody.
Tommy [01:59:57]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:59:58]:
You know, I like it. It's character.
Tommy [02:00:01]:
Yeah. You know what I mean?
Phillip [02:00:03]:
So if I go on Monday, I'm a total nut.
Tommy [02:00:05]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:00:06]:
No.
Tommy [02:00:06]:
And I'll be accepting of you because.
Mike [02:00:08]:
We understand that the journey you have.
Tommy [02:00:09]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:00:10]:
You have, like, Tom has to go on his journey.
Eldar [02:00:12]:
So I'll pack you. I'll pack you up when you say, no problem. No, but I internally, I disagree that.
Tommy [02:00:18]:
I disagree with this Phillips next week.
Eldar [02:00:22]:
Well, that's the thing. That's the awareness that I talked about before. And now if you do go, you.
Mike [02:00:27]:
Now, you know, with an over the awareness now, you know, you're gonna be.
Eldar [02:00:30]:
And that is gonna be a dirty dummy to go.
Tommy [02:00:32]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:00:33]:
Be a dirty little estimator.
Eldar [02:00:36]:
Yeah. Like a complete, total nut that.
Tommy [02:00:38]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:00:39]:
Wants to control everything.
Phillip [02:00:40]:
I was referred here, but I don't feel good about it.
Tommy [02:00:42]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:00:43]:
Can you tell me the best price? I don't want to be here, bro.
Tommy [02:00:48]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:00:49]:
You know, this is a big one.
Tommy [02:00:51]:
For me because it's a big hurdle to jump.
Phillip [02:00:53]:
Because it's bigger. This is what it's bigger than. It's bigger than just, like, aesthetic.
Eldar [02:00:57]:
And that's why I think that look. That's why he has a lot of qualities at Dennis House. It's to the t, bro.
Phillip [02:01:02]:
It's not. It's not. Look, on the car, to me, it's attached to me. Fully accepting what you just said.
Tommy [02:01:08]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:01:08]:
And allowing it to be.
Eldar [02:01:09]:
You don't trust me. It's okay.
Tommy [02:01:10]:
Mm hmm.
Mike [02:01:12]:
But you can't trust somebody when you.
Eldar [02:01:14]:
Don'T trust you also don't trust you. You don't trust me. It goes all the way around. There's so that connection that you're talking about. We all human at that level right now. You don't believe that.
Tommy [02:01:23]:
And I.
Phillip [02:01:23]:
And I agree with you in this moment. I do agree. Not to mention there's also maybe a possible, like, amount of guilt that you're.
Tommy [02:01:29]:
Now saying, like, you know what? I really should have taken that lady's information.
Phillip [02:01:32]:
Oh, no. All that's coming into play. Of course, there's, like, a little bit of that.
Tommy [02:01:36]:
But that's the thing.
Eldar [02:01:37]:
It played out the way it played out. Because then he's gonna be, like, chasing her for fucking money and shit, like. And doing all this fucking.
Phillip [02:01:45]:
And I didn't want to do that. Now, that was the part of myself that I was proud where I said, like, I don't want to deal with it. So that's the positive that I took from it.
Eldar [02:01:52]:
And now you realize that you got even more positive to take. But you might not be able to because the fact that you have conditioned.
Mike [02:01:57]:
Response now I gotta go.
Tommy [02:01:59]:
What are you doing? Yeah.
Eldar [02:02:00]:
What's the matter with me?
Phillip [02:02:01]:
What is wrong with me, bro?
Tommy [02:02:03]:
Play the cat. Yeah, kill the cat.
Tommy [02:02:06]:
Oh, my goodness.
Tommy [02:02:07]:
Penny.
Tommy [02:02:08]:
Well, at least we have Penny.
Phillip [02:02:09]:
Yeah, but I got to see.
Tommy [02:02:10]:
She came at the right time.
Phillip [02:02:11]:
So perfect. And I got to see a cat. I made so good eye contact with that.
Tommy [02:02:16]:
There was a cat out there.
Eldar [02:02:17]:
There's a squirrel.
Phillip [02:02:17]:
We're gonna have hummingbirds. There's robins out there.
Tommy [02:02:19]:
Do you understand?
Tommy [02:02:20]:
I was back there knocking out the.
Phillip [02:02:21]:
Window Steve Carell and what's the movie? When he like. Yes, I love it.
Tommy [02:02:33]:
Good.
Phillip [02:02:33]:
All right, so I gotta accept this shit.
Tommy [02:02:35]:
Fuck.
Eldar [02:02:36]:
But, no, I think you have to understand. I don't think you just have to, like, don't take our word for.
Mike [02:02:42]:
We got. We got a whole weekend potential walking. Tell me more about this.
Phillip [02:02:47]:
Educate me more on this. Help me understand it from a logical, intellectual level, and not just, like, just a.
Eldar [02:02:53]:
It's all logical. I think what's more important right now, you valuing one sale? I'm valuing your fucking character that I called you. I said, mike, y'all, I want to call him. Because I remember something inside of him.
Mike [02:03:04]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:03:04]:
Like, was us, part of us.
Phillip [02:03:06]:
I always felt like I was party.
Eldar [02:03:07]:
You fought, you fuck with him. Everybody fucked with him.
Tommy [02:03:10]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:03:10]:
It was just bad timing. Yeah, but agreed, maybe good timing.
Tommy [02:03:14]:
Right.
Eldar [02:03:14]:
Well, everything I said, I'm gonna call. I'm gonna say my piece. That's all I needed to do. I needed to put my piece out there into the world, into the universe, and see what comes back to it. When he talked to me, I heard a dead person on the phone.
Tommy [02:03:25]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:03:26]:
A dead, scared person. And I said, you look, this is where he's at, Phil, no problem, man. You know what I mean? Hit me up. He said, give me a year. I was like, all right, cool. You know, I took it, no problem.
Tommy [02:03:35]:
And then it came back to me.
Eldar [02:03:37]:
And this is the way it came back.
Tommy [02:03:38]:
Yeah. You know?
Eldar [02:03:40]:
And this is what I value, and this is. This is what I want to continue to be able to.
Tommy [02:03:44]:
To do.
Eldar [02:03:45]:
I'm not always good at it, or it always works, but when it does, it feels really good. And I'm not talking about the sale that you made. That's good. Sure. You know what I mean? I'm talking about the vibe that you brought in, the value that you already bring in to Tommy.
Tommy [02:03:59]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:03:59]:
From having this conversation.
Tommy [02:04:01]:
Yes.
Eldar [02:04:01]:
Last time on last Friday, you brought a lot of value to Tony.
Tommy [02:04:04]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:04:05]:
You know what I mean? I think that you're taking some of the vulgar shit that we might say and you breaking it up a little bit more. More, you know, to the general public that they can understand it.
Tommy [02:04:13]:
Like, the idea that you brought to Mike being in a flow state, like, allowing himself to open up to be more of what he is, which is surprising to me because I tend to think in terms of, like, producing and, like, creating things. And I'm finding that the more and more that I think about this, the more and more it's calling me to do that. And so, like, what I'm saying is I put my focus on a little bit towards what cat was saying, you know, actually taking it to the next level, and why don't you do this for a living and stuff? And I tend not to think, really, that people say that, that people actually say these things. And then I pull myself out of the moment instead of just appreciating. Okay, I've got friends around me who are trying to support me, uplift me, just help me, and doing that are compassionate. These guys are compassionate and caring, and that allows me to stay in the moment by just appreciating. I'm here right now, and I'm surrounded by people I care about, and I'm surrounded by good people. And that, like, adds value.
Tommy [02:05:22]:
And so I like, I like that you think about that as, like, a state of mind that one can do, that one can be in, or one can have to just, like, be more of themselves. And that takes me out of my element a little bit because I'm like, wait a second.
Tommy [02:05:38]:
Flow.
Tommy [02:05:39]:
Like, that results in work. Work is actually doing something that people look at and care about. Then you become. You become more of a. Become more of a well known or become a better, more creative person. You know, it's interesting because I'm like, you know, maybe just a little deterred by the idea of, like, a flow being something that can just be given or. And that to me, it sounds like it has to, like, create something, and that's not such a bad thing at all. Like, I just see it as being, you know, I think I see it as being, like, an amazing thing to help yourself.
Tommy [02:06:23]:
Um, Eldar, you said to me last, or, like, a couple weeks ago, or whatever it was people be, when we talked about the National Guard, you said, people will be inspired by your story. I know. I remember you. What you, uh, what you were like back then, and the distance you've come is very, very long. And so that in itself is gold. So, like, hold on to that. And anyway, I think what you're saying is the same thing. I think what you're saying is, like, um, you get the Obama finding that flow state is just allowing yourself to know that you are gold.
Tommy [02:06:55]:
And that's not something that I come around to so easily.
Tommy [02:06:59]:
Wow.
Eldar [02:06:59]:
Very well put.
Tommy [02:07:00]:
Yes.
Phillip [02:07:00]:
It's great.
Mike [02:07:01]:
That was a very.
Eldar [02:07:03]:
Took a little while to get to, but thank you, Tom.
Mike [02:07:05]:
He was silent for, like, last hour.
Eldar [02:07:06]:
And that's what it is.
Tommy [02:07:08]:
That's what it is.
Eldar [02:07:08]:
If we gonna. If we're gonna. If you're gonna. If you want to mock this. These moments and like I said, these things, this gold that we're talking about with that little bumper thing, that's your choice. You want to be the nut, then do it.
Mike [02:07:23]:
But you also been away for three years. We understand.
Tommy [02:07:26]:
Yes. You. Yeah.
Eldar [02:07:26]:
You actually lost your mind a little bit.
Tommy [02:07:28]:
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Which is. Okay.
Phillip [02:07:32]:
I totally get that. And.
Tommy [02:07:35]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:07:35]:
Like, so my mindset today was when I was coming back.
Tommy [02:07:38]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:07:39]:
Like, I think you started to say some things, and, like. Like, we got into, like, we were having, like, fun, and we were laughing again. Kind of broke me, like, my character, but, like, I was, like, definitely, like, really, like, I was down when I came back after, like, the estimate.
Tommy [02:07:51]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:07:52]:
I was like, fuck, I'm not gonna. I'm gonna go home. I'm not gonna do podcast. I'm just gonna say, like, I gotta go home. That was my mindset.
Tommy [02:07:58]:
That was my.
Phillip [02:07:58]:
That was my mindset. My year I came back, my mindset was, I, like, I'm really down. I feel really, like, disappointed in myself of, like, how I handle the situation, and I'm like, I'm just gonna go in. I'm gonna finish my work, and then I'm just gonna go home. I'll come back.
Tommy [02:08:16]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:08:16]:
So that was. I was definitely disappointed myself then. Like, I think, like, I talked to you about the estimate, and then you. I think you were making a joke, and then, like, we were talking about something, and then.
Tommy [02:08:28]:
I don't know.
Phillip [02:08:29]:
I don't know what else happened.
Mike [02:08:30]:
We're looking at funny pictures up before.
Tommy [02:08:31]:
After lunch. I don't remember.
Eldar [02:08:33]:
Probably after.
Phillip [02:08:34]:
Yeah, that might have happened to whatever happened. It just. It just got me into, like, you know what? Like, I just felt a lot more relaxed and a lot more comfortable. And now we're addressing it now.
Tommy [02:08:42]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:08:43]:
On the podcast. So that's like. But yet that's how my mind works, is when I have those type of situations where I let somebody down.
Tommy [02:08:50]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:08:50]:
You didn't.
Tommy [02:08:51]:
Okay.
Eldar [02:08:51]:
That's the thing. You perceive that you let somebody down.
Tommy [02:08:54]:
Yes. Okay. You know what I mean?
Eldar [02:08:55]:
But that's not what actually happened in this case. In this case.
Tommy [02:08:59]:
That's not it.
Phillip [02:08:59]:
But I was attaching it to other examples when I did actually let somebody down, maybe probably deep down, didn't. It's probably just them being correct.
Eldar [02:09:08]:
It's what they value. So if your dad or your mom value things over your relationship with them, right. That's what happened.
Phillip [02:09:15]:
Understood.
Eldar [02:09:16]:
They scarred you there.
Phillip [02:09:17]:
Right.
Eldar [02:09:17]:
Other people scarred you there, then you became a nut.
Tommy [02:09:20]:
You.
Eldar [02:09:20]:
Like, yeah, this is the most important thing. Things is the most important thing. You know what I mean? Like, that's why you.
Phillip [02:09:25]:
So I. I see that, though.
Tommy [02:09:26]:
You know?
Phillip [02:09:27]:
Like, I see that pattern.
Tommy [02:09:28]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:09:28]:
But seeing it and then also just having it as an example, like I said, you're the first example that I had that with. So it's still. It's still definitely a hurdle to fully, fully accept that being real, even though I'm experiencing it and I know that it's there.
Tommy [02:09:44]:
Yeah, no, I get it. I get it.
Eldar [02:09:47]:
I think it's necessary because I think that you've been conditioned for a very long time, so it's almost gravitational. You cannot. You cannot come out of it just naturally, like, right through words or through whatever. It has to kind of come with reflecting actions and stuff like that and seeing a little bit more.
Tommy [02:10:01]:
Yes.
Eldar [02:10:02]:
Really important.
Tommy [02:10:02]:
What's.
Eldar [02:10:03]:
What you really value.
Phillip [02:10:04]:
It's like you putting the seed of, like, you called me and then you kind of just, like, let it kind of just, like, let it just go for me, like, today, like, this is, like, the seed. I'm getting it, and it's like, oh, it's probably later.
Eldar [02:10:14]:
A lot of times, I'm gonna let it sprout.
Phillip [02:10:16]:
That's how I'm looking at this now, because I'm getting everything you're saying. There's nothing I'm disagreeing with, but there's, like, a inner conflict of, like, all these things. Like, I literally feel it, like, put, like, resistance.
Tommy [02:10:26]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:10:27]:
Like, in my body.
Tommy [02:10:28]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:10:28]:
And like I said, like, if you want to go, continue to travel down that lane, life will teach you. Life will teach you nonetheless, of that. It's not serving you that you're actually taking away from the moments. Like you said you could have potentially left today and actually didn't enjoy this. What you're enjoying now.
Tommy [02:10:44]:
Right.
Eldar [02:10:44]:
Because of that fucking minute thing.
Tommy [02:10:46]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:10:46]:
That I see for what it is. And you don't have that ability yet.
Phillip [02:10:50]:
I'm not going on Monday.
Eldar [02:10:51]:
Good.
Tommy [02:10:52]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:10:53]:
But you may go to see my guy.
Tommy [02:10:55]:
Right.
Phillip [02:10:55]:
I'm not asking Mike either. That was my second thing.
Eldar [02:10:57]:
I'm not asking yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mike [02:10:59]:
And I knew what you were doing.
Tommy [02:11:00]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:11:01]:
There was, there was a moment in the conversation.
Tommy [02:11:03]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:11:03]:
And I explained to him, I was like, yo, the other would not give you a different answer versus me.
Tommy [02:11:08]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:11:08]:
That's not his character. He would give you the truth regardless, for longer or not. And then he's like, okay. And then he's like, can you call your guy? I'm like, wait, but we just talk about this.
Tommy [02:11:19]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:11:19]:
I didn't say anything because I understood.
Eldar [02:11:20]:
Like, okay, he wants to continue doing this.
Tommy [02:11:22]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:11:22]:
I have to let him keep doing it. You know, I gave you, like, this.
Phillip [02:11:26]:
Is kind of like the pretty wild place here.
Eldar [02:11:28]:
What do you think?
Mike [02:11:29]:
This is the thing with Tommy.
Eldar [02:11:33]:
You already said 303. Remember this? Three or three or 30303 or three. 3 hours, three minutes, 3 seconds. He said, this is a wild place. I like it.
Phillip [02:11:48]:
I'm staring at that guy's head.
Eldar [02:11:49]:
Is that something you see? That he also learned and understood that you have to allow people, you can't sometimes take them off away, especially if they have attachments.
Tommy [02:11:58]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:11:59]:
You know what I mean?
Tommy [02:12:00]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:12:00]:
This is amazing.
Tommy [02:12:01]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:12:02]:
See it through, you know?
Tommy [02:12:03]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:12:03]:
That's like the same thing that was we're telling you about time.
Tommy [02:12:06]:
Understood.
Mike [02:12:06]:
If you listen to him, I listen. You listen to him carefully from the first time or the second time that he gave you those rebuttals, you and said, okay, you on that type of flow?
Phillip [02:12:15]:
Now I really do you.
Tommy [02:12:16]:
No problem.
Phillip [02:12:17]:
Yeah, now I really get it.
Tommy [02:12:19]:
Okay, good.
Phillip [02:12:19]:
Your guys level of patience and understanding. But I said patience, understanding before, but now I'm understanding the scope of it, and it's even a lot more than I thought.
Tommy [02:12:26]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [02:12:28]:
If Tony was here, he would give a lot of personal examples where I.
Tommy [02:12:32]:
Sent him packing to try to experience.
Eldar [02:12:34]:
You know, do whatever he still believed just to prove to himself this is the way he needed to learn.
Phillip [02:12:40]:
You're allowing life to be his teacher.
Tommy [02:12:42]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [02:12:43]:
You come to me, he'll ask me for advice, and I give him the advice, give him the answer, but he can't take the answer.
Phillip [02:12:48]:
It's impossible. The Leonard Skinner example in the car, right?
Tommy [02:12:52]:
Oh, yeah.
Phillip [02:12:52]:
Kid rock and Leonard.
Tommy [02:12:53]:
Yeah, yeah.
Phillip [02:12:54]:
He wasn't listening to perfect example.
Eldar [02:12:56]:
He cannot trust.
Tommy [02:12:57]:
Yes. Yeah.
Eldar [02:12:58]:
So he had to go to the, you know, his ego and his pride or whatever it is. Not wanting to be wrong or whatever.
Tommy [02:13:02]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:13:02]:
And prove himself is gonna get him there, you know? So take away from the moment, like you said, to enjoy an actual music.
Mike [02:13:08]:
Yeah, yeah.
Eldar [02:13:09]:
And that's what it is.
Phillip [02:13:10]:
So he lost his music privileges.
Eldar [02:13:12]:
That's right.
Mike [02:13:12]:
And that, too.
Tommy [02:13:13]:
Yeah. Yeah, totally.
Phillip [02:13:15]:
You heard that? You're never gonna play music in my car.
Tommy [02:13:18]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:13:18]:
Until you change this.
Tommy [02:13:19]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:13:20]:
Give you the remote.
Eldar [02:13:20]:
That's right.
Tommy [02:13:22]:
Yeah. Good stuff.
Phillip [02:13:24]:
We had a couple of breakthroughs today.
Eldar [02:13:26]:
Yeah, sure.
Tommy [02:13:27]:
But some of the stuff definitely makes me want to discuss the. Fair enough.
Tommy [02:13:36]:
Fair enough. Tom.
Eldar [02:13:37]:
Welcome home, Tom. Welcome home, Tom. I'm glad you always find your way home.
Phillip [02:13:41]:
Maybe it makes a stand up comedian.
Mike [02:13:46]:
You don't even want Phil.
Phillip [02:13:47]:
I think you can do anything.
Eldar [02:13:48]:
Swiss army knife, remember?
Tommy [02:13:50]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:13:51]:
He said he just found. He just found a grubhub. Plus, I can sign up for free through Amazon and like. Yeah.
Eldar [02:14:00]:
Resourceful guy.
Phillip [02:14:01]:
He's the most resourceful.
Tommy [02:14:03]:
Yes.
Eldar [02:14:03]:
And then, bro, you understand how I met him or.
Phillip [02:14:05]:
No, no.
Eldar [02:14:06]:
I met him in detention. I was cutting school and he was cutting school in fair lawn.
Tommy [02:14:11]:
You know what I'm saying?
Eldar [02:14:12]:
I'm sitting there and he's sitting there and like, yo, what's up?
Tommy [02:14:15]:
What's up?
Eldar [02:14:15]:
Where you from? I'm from Brooklyn. He's like, oh, I'm from Brooklyn, too. What's up? I'm like, damn, you know, you got caught. Whatever. I'm like, I just moved here. I want a job. Like, I got you, bro. Come to my gym, I'll get you a job as a lifeguard.
Eldar [02:14:25]:
Just like that.
Tommy [02:14:26]:
Sick.
Eldar [02:14:27]:
Yes or no?
Mike [02:14:27]:
100%. You understand?
Phillip [02:14:29]:
That's pretty cool.
Eldar [02:14:30]:
I got you. He said, I got you a job. I'm like, what? Who is this fucking person? You know, come. He doesn't give me the job. I play basketball, but he got me.
Mike [02:14:39]:
No, he couldn't.
Eldar [02:14:40]:
I don't know what happened.
Tommy [02:14:41]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:14:42]:
Certification or subsidiary? He meant well. He's like, I got you, you know? Got me into the gym and the job. I was playing basketball at the same exact time back then.
Tommy [02:14:54]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:14:54]:
Like, he was always connecting dots, helping people. Pretty much, you know, trying.
Tommy [02:14:59]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:15:00]:
So very natural.
Tommy [02:15:01]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:15:02]:
Because by the time you figure out like, that, you have a problem, he already solved it ten times over. You know it's true.
Tommy [02:15:08]:
Yeah, yeah. Oh, because.
Eldar [02:15:11]:
Yeah, the place, sometimes it works against him, obviously, because he gets too excited.
Tommy [02:15:17]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:15:17]:
Like, I also want to help people before, you know, how their problems before.
Eldar [02:15:21]:
That's right.
Mike [02:15:21]:
Prematurely. I definitely have that, you know, like, what you. What you were trying to do with time, you trying to help them. So solve problem. But he's not ready for it. I have that, too.
Phillip [02:15:30]:
But solving mine, you just.
Mike [02:15:31]:
I just have a problem solving mine because the way I see, I see things like, yo, it's not a problem. It's like, let's figure it out. Let's solve it. That's what we're trying to accomplish here. Everybody wants to be.
Eldar [02:15:41]:
Everybody's on their time.
Tommy [02:15:42]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:15:43]:
To Mike. To Mike. When he's presented with problems, right. All these different people, he's like, that's not a problem. I got you. You know what I mean? But again, he underestimates where those people are in that moment sometimes and why they're there and why they're there. And he gets disappointed sometimes with some people because he's lending the hands and, come on, I'll help you. I'll help you.
Tommy [02:15:59]:
But they're not there.
Eldar [02:16:01]:
They can't respond as quick as he can.
Phillip [02:16:02]:
So being hopeful and, like, seeing, like, glimmers of positivity in people can sometimes be a negative.
Tommy [02:16:08]:
Oh, it's very bad.
Eldar [02:16:09]:
And helping them not seeing things, what they are. Being a realist sometimes, yes. Is a bad thing, and it's not a good. It's good thing to be a realist sometimes because you, you get to see things for what they are. Because if you don't see things for what they are, you'll be in the hopeful state thinking that people have good hearts and all this other shit, that they're gonna turn around little, that, you know, there's this fucking closet skeleton.
Mike [02:16:30]:
I actually been experiencing a lot of that. The opposite of it.
Tommy [02:16:35]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:16:36]:
Because all these lately, the people I've been meeting, including Tony.
Tommy [02:16:40]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:16:41]:
I'm understanding where these people are coming from.
Tommy [02:16:42]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:16:43]:
I'm understanding, like, that they. This conversation, it was great. Did it just a tiny bit. Whatever it did for them is great, but I have no attachments. Them succeeding in failing, and that's where I.
Eldar [02:16:54]:
Someday. You don't know when.
Tommy [02:16:55]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:16:56]:
That's why you keep putting the seeds.
Mike [02:16:57]:
Out there to see.
Eldar [02:16:58]:
To see when they sprout. And that takes time.
Tommy [02:17:00]:
Sure.
Mike [02:17:01]:
But more and more, as even, like, people I'm interacting with.
Tommy [02:17:04]:
Yeah.
Mike [02:17:04]:
You know, even, like, these hard to hard conversations.
Tommy [02:17:07]:
Yes, I know.
Eldar [02:17:09]:
Like, you used to hold more.
Mike [02:17:10]:
I used to hold more attachment. Now I'm like, I understand. Like, whatever happened in the moment, it's good. It may contribute.
Eldar [02:17:16]:
You made an impact for the moment being.
Tommy [02:17:18]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:17:18]:
But this does not overtake the person's life. A person's life is comprised by a lot of shit. A little moment that you had, even though it was impactful.
Tommy [02:17:26]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:17:26]:
It installed that seed very, very deeply.
Mike [02:17:29]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm learning that.
Tommy [02:17:32]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Eldar [02:17:33]:
I mean, when Philip talked about some of his turnarounds, you know, he's surprising us with some of the turnarounds that he's like, yo, I got it. And then he's like, yo, he's running with it. He's changing stuff.
Tommy [02:17:42]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:17:42]:
It's impressive.
Mike [02:17:43]:
It is good.
Tommy [02:17:43]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:17:43]:
You know what I mean? Like, if you.
Tommy [02:17:44]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:17:45]:
If you don't go on Monday or whatever, you know, like, that's impressive.
Tommy [02:17:48]:
Turn.
Eldar [02:17:48]:
If you really get it.
Phillip [02:17:50]:
If, you know, I'm hearing you, like, I'm hearing the truth, and I'm getting it.
Tommy [02:17:54]:
Okay.
Phillip [02:17:54]:
It's almost like I believe it.
Tommy [02:17:59]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:18:00]:
But the accepting part of it, like, there's still that layer of muck. We're like, I see the muck.
Tommy [02:18:05]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:18:06]:
I see the truth. I believe it. But to fully accept it, it's like I have to remove the muck completely. And I think that's where time isn't necessary.
Eldar [02:18:14]:
I think that's when. Then the truth becomes yours and not mine.
Tommy [02:18:17]:
Yes.
Eldar [02:18:18]:
And you don't have to trust me anymore. You go trust yourself. Then it's inside of. And in turn, and in turn, when you start trusting yourself, you start trusting me, because me and you share that same truth. And that's the way we're connected, though.
Tommy [02:18:29]:
So there's a.
Phillip [02:18:29]:
You understand there's a peanut butter sandwich right now. There's a layer, and there's the peanut butter. Yeah, I basically have to. I have to eat the peanut. I have to eat the peanut butter.
Tommy [02:18:39]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:18:40]:
And then we can just have jelly. Jelly sandwich. So the peanut butter is the muck right now.
Tommy [02:18:46]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:18:46]:
It's definitely holding me back, right?
Tommy [02:18:49]:
Correct.
Eldar [02:18:50]:
Because I have my reasons as to why I believe what I believe, and I understand what I understand for what it is.
Phillip [02:18:55]:
Understood.
Eldar [02:18:56]:
And you yet don't have that same thing. You're not connected to the same stuff because you grow up differently. You believe different things.
Phillip [02:19:01]:
Right.
Eldar [02:19:02]:
You know, you don't have the same experiences. You know what I mean? You don't have the same values. But when you start to turn to them and start being open to them, and if they really work for you, like, yo, that shit works now. I want to fuck with that. And if it feels good and if it's the truth, you're gonna start slowly adopting to those things, it's gone. All right, so, final thoughts, guys, on this fucking shit that we talked about.
Tommy [02:19:22]:
Everything is awesome.
Mike [02:19:24]:
Yeah, definitely.
Tommy [02:19:25]:
Yeah. Very good.
Tommy [02:19:26]:
It's interesting.
Mike [02:19:27]:
We went to a lot of different places.
Phillip [02:19:29]:
Yeah, we do. We went to a lot of different places.
Tommy [02:19:31]:
I can't say anything that I sort of, uh, I'll say this. I'll say that, um, I took something from this conversation, um, and, uh, I enjoy listening to, um, the different things that were said.
Tommy [02:19:54]:
Um.
Eldar [02:19:57]:
And I hope, um.
Tommy [02:20:00]:
Now we talk more about, like, how. How, like, what it means to be a good son, how to engage in.
Mike [02:20:12]:
I know he's my son.
Tommy [02:20:13]:
Right.
Tommy [02:20:14]:
In more creative things, because it's like, about a sort of, sort of more.
Tommy [02:20:21]:
More deep thing to, like.
Tommy [02:20:27]:
To, like, go into, like, the unknown and, like, and see what. What that might put out. Like, I think we. It's interesting how things flipped in a way. Like, how, like, a small thing can, like, sort of, you know, result in, like, a great, a great change. And that's, that's what's interesting. It's just, like, within itself, like, that ability to, you know, like, to see that, I don't know, something has more meaning despite, like, you know, through humility and through trust, like, something can sort of emerge from that. And that's what's unique and amazing about this.
Tommy [02:21:09]:
So I I took away from this. That, hey, that just appreciating that could be great. Just appreciating that, like, you know, something. Something creative that can come out of it is great. And I want to talk more about that stuff. So that's great.
Tommy [02:21:24]:
Cool. Very good.
Mike [02:21:26]:
Said something important.
Tommy [02:21:28]:
Nice.
Mike [02:21:28]:
Made sense, actually.
Eldar [02:21:29]:
That's great.
Mike [02:21:30]:
Yeah, he was, he was quiet for that whole hour we were talking. He maybe got a little bit humble.
Tommy [02:21:36]:
No, not like the classic Tommy.
Phillip [02:21:37]:
Tommy.
Tommy [02:21:38]:
Classic Tommy 1.0.
Tommy [02:21:39]:
No, no.
Mike [02:21:40]:
This might be Tommy 1.1.
Tommy [02:21:42]:
Come on.
Tommy [02:21:42]:
You guys don't remember me being quiet back in the day?
Mike [02:21:44]:
That's because you didn't know how to speak. Yeah, so far, I had to teach you English.
Tommy [02:21:49]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:21:49]:
So today for me, was a, was reminiscent of. So my understanding of a curvy enthusiasm episode is that Larry David would write one paragraph, and then the actors would basically just, like, improvise, like, really on the scene, whatever it was.
Tommy [02:22:03]:
Yeah.
Phillip [02:22:03]:
So I think we had, like, you know, maybe, I don't know, you call it a gender. We had maybe like, a semi script of, like, hey, we're going to talk about passion, but it led us into all these other realms, and we allowed ourselves to, I think, be in a natural flow state in the present moment where all these other conversations of, like, variations of different things that we maybe didn't set to talk about came about as a result of us just all connecting. So I think today was, yeah, I think just almost like a showcase or an example of, look what happens when you're in a flow state or you're just connecting and being in the moment with people that you trust and you feel good about. All these other conversations that you didn't plan on happening were happening. And that's what I got from today. I learned a lot about myself individually, all the stuff that we talked about, but today we definitely covered a wide range of topics that were all not only beneficial, but just very interesting, and I enjoyed today.
Eldar [02:23:02]:
Nice, nice cat.
Tommy [02:23:06]:
No additional cost.
Tommy [02:23:07]:
Hey.
Mike [02:23:12]:
Ya know, I think so kind of build upon the building, I think all the time, you know, all the time. Every time we have a, you know.
Tommy [02:23:21]:
Podcast, we always come in with like.
Mike [02:23:24]:
Some idea in mind, but we never know where, like a philosophy is like a journey that you never know where's the destination. And I think that's the beauty of it, because you maybe think you come in to learn about one thing or to understand one thing, but you come out learning and understanding so much more and so much other stuff. So I think that's the beauty in it. I think that requires, maybe it requires, I don't know, or maybe it's just natural being open minded to explore different areas and, you know, to go wherever.
Tommy [02:23:54]:
It'S gonna go, because you never really know.
Phillip [02:23:57]:
I think on the other two, we did two so far. So this is the third one, maybe, or maybe four. Yeah, I think the other ones I had throughout it, I had the topic in mind, and I really, like, thought we were like, you know, sticking to the topic, or at least I had it in my mind. This one started with that and I liked that. At least I allowed myself to go more on an adventure and not think so much about the topic and be like, rooted in like the, I guess you can go back to the routine or disciple, whatever, whatever it was.
Tommy [02:24:25]:
Yeah.
Eldar [02:24:25]:
So you have fun today?
Phillip [02:24:27]:
I definitely had, like, more fun in it. And I like that it came, like, to Mike's point, like, we let it kind of go to a journey and there was no, like, set destination. We kind of just let it go.
Tommy [02:24:37]:
No, yeah, Mike is right.
Eldar [02:24:40]:
I think if you keep an open mind, this will, this is the type of effect that it might have, and that's great. But, but I think that you guys don't underestimate the fact that, because of the fact that we use real life examples, right. Those provide so much value.
Tommy [02:24:57]:
Right.
Eldar [02:24:57]:
Tommy's example, your example, my example, Philip, you know, Philip's example, stuff like that. Those are real examples, real life examples that we can learn from, you know, why do we act this way? Why do we perceive this, you know, why do we have those values, this value, you know? So I think that's huge when it comes to philosophy. So if you allow that, you can go to different places and really enjoy, I think, different fruits that it has to offer.
Tommy [02:25:19]:
So keep an open mind.
Eldar [02:25:20]:
But however, I also think that before keeping an open mind, I think that.
Tommy [02:25:24]:
You have to have courage. You know what I mean?
Eldar [02:25:27]:
And the reason why you have to have courage is because coming in and coming in, a lot of the times in these types of conversations, your ego and pride, no matter what's flaring up somewhere, you know, so without having the courage to be able to be, get humbled, be humble, have that humility that you're talking about, I think the receptiveness to this is not going to be.
Tommy [02:25:46]:
There, you know what I mean?
Eldar [02:25:47]:
So have encouraged to actually step in. It's these conversations, be vulnerable and open up to these types of things. To be, you know, challenged and stuff like that. It's the only way to, I think, to reach the. These types of enlightened states, I think, yes, we or the flow states that you talk about, you know what I mean? Where those states will teach us, guide us. Hopefully they'll stick long enough for us to really change our behavioral patterns, to.
Tommy [02:26:11]:
Be happier and better people.
Eldar [02:26:15]:
Courage and open mindedness, for sure.
Tommy [02:26:17]:
Thank you, guys.
Eldar [02:26:18]:
This was great. Thank you guys, for sure, as always.
Tommy [02:26:21]:
Yeah. Bye.