Phillip [00:00:10]:
I'd say, like early twenty s, I would go down to Belmont and like, go down the shore and stuff. I would like to hang out with, like, women in their forty s. That was, to me, like, I was genuinely attracted to that. Then I got older.

Phillip [00:00:22]:
I would beat him either way. But we were saying that we would do wrestling or like judo or something like that.

Vemir [00:00:27]:
So he's muscular? No.

Phillip [00:00:30]:
If you look at his body and just how he handles himself, he's a big martial.

Vemir [00:00:36]:
Yeah.

Phillip [00:00:37]:
He's like a doinky dinky. Like walking around like Doinky and Dinky.

Vemir [00:00:43]:
I'm going to see this.

Vemir [00:00:45]:
It's also your temperaments are different. That's important.

Phillip [00:00:48]:
Oh, yeah, I can definitely switch. Zero to 100. Very angry.

Vemir [00:00:56]:
That wasn't the advantage is that you're calm. He's reactive.

Phillip [00:01:00]:
I got really angry and I got in his face and like, I wanted to fight him.

Phillip [00:01:12]:
I've been having interactions with people that have been very hostile, I guess confrontational. Oh, no. In this when you have a full physical advantage.

Phillip [00:01:30]:
I do agree. If there is an even matchup, I would say the even keel calm guy would probably win. But in this one, I'm going to.

Phillip [00:01:41]:
Oh, no.

Phillip [00:01:43]:
Steamroll what? I'm actually saying to myself, I'm a humble guy, and you don't get that. Your level of attachment to these things.

Phillip [00:01:51]:
And ours is next to nothing.

Eldar [00:01:52]:
Ours is next to nothing. You hear this?

Phillip [00:01:54]:
He's going to be like having his dumb little face on and I'm just going to be walking towards him. I'm not going to stop and I'm just going to keep going until he drops.

Eldar [00:02:01]:
Oh, my God.

Phillip [00:02:01]:
It's going to be one of those compressor things like that. This push, push, and like he just goes to the ground and then he just explodes.

Phillip [00:02:17]:
I'm a humble guy.

Eldar [00:02:34]:
All right, Vermeer. We blocked them out. We blocked this one out for you, man.

Vemir [00:02:38]:
Lucky me.

Eldar [00:02:39]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:02:39]:
Or lucky you, because Mike.

Eldar [00:02:41]:
Yeah. No, it's probably lucky lot. We've had a lot of Mike part 12345.

Vemir [00:02:46]:
So it's like Mike part five.

Eldar [00:02:48]:
Yeah. And Dennis got tired of it. He's like, yo, what the fuck? Why am I cogging? The know. Gotta listen. Give it to some other. So. So it's great. And you have yours.

Eldar [00:02:55]:
And what do you want to talk about?

Vemir [00:02:57]:
Well, dude, this is bound to evolve. So it's not, like, fixed to the topic. Yeah, but I was very honored, like you wanted to talk about the subject. I sent you a video on moral progress. So, the video I sent you is based on Peter Singer's book, the expanding circle. Essentially, parts of it are justifying why non human animals should be included in the circle. And this is more of, like, expansive. I think this could and should expand to many of the things in moral progress, like the base of morality, what we can do with AI when, you know, you're justified or not.

Vemir [00:03:39]:
Is it possible? All that good stuff. I think a lot of people in philosophy get stuck in base principles. But that's the whole point, right? It's very hard to figure those things out.

Eldar [00:03:50]:
Sure.

Vemir [00:03:50]:
But there's.

Eldar [00:03:51]:
Yeah. The most important thing is obviously being able to apply certain of those things in real life and be able to actually live your life a certain type of way.

Vemir [00:03:58]:
I love when people. You ever watch those YouTube shorts to some millionaire or whatever, he's like, what's the most thing important in life? Right? And he's immediately going to the top of his hierarchy. And you could see how low the hierarchy is. Like, if they say it's their legacy or you see where their cap is. Anyway, so the thing I sent you was the drowning child experiment?

Eldar [00:04:19]:
Yes. Can you briefly explain to the audience? Let's wait.

Vemir [00:04:25]:
Yeah, let's wait. It's a quick one, too.

Eldar [00:04:28]:
It is. Yeah, it's good.

Vemir [00:04:30]:
Are you familiar with it, or did you just.

Eldar [00:04:32]:
I read the thing, the book? The thing that you said.

Vemir [00:04:35]:
Oh, the excerpt.

Eldar [00:04:36]:
The little excerpt.

Vemir [00:04:37]:
Did you like it?

Eldar [00:04:38]:
Yeah, I did. It's a quick read. I forgot I don't have my phone. Yeah, so he was going to explain it, and we'll chop it up. You sent it to me, but I forgot to read it. You were sick. Yeah, it was sick. Here or here? Both.

Eldar [00:04:51]:
A little bit of both. Yeah. You know, when you get sick here. Yeah, you get sick here.

Vemir [00:04:54]:
It all works. That works.

Phillip [00:04:56]:
I thought you told me you're part of your dick.

Eldar [00:04:59]:
No, that didn't get sick.

Phillip [00:05:02]:
Then you're definitely.

Eldar [00:05:03]:
Then you're in real trouble.

Vemir [00:05:04]:
Yeah, you wouldn't be here.

Eldar [00:05:05]:
Yeah. Although I had like a couple of nights ago. You're sick. You drink a lot of water and tea and shit while I laid in bed. Peed yourself to pee four times in like half an hour. I'm like, yo, something wrong with me? Every time I would lay back down that you have to pee bad?

Vemir [00:05:22]:
Who, you?

Eldar [00:05:22]:
Yeah. When? Like a couple of days ago. Really? Yeah, when I was sick, I would go pee, go lay down and like five minutes later you have to pee bad again. Bad. What the fuck? Really? Were you drinking a lot of water? I drank mad water, mad tea all day. Like, all the shit. Yeah.

Vemir [00:05:41]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:05:42]:
I got scared. I was like, yo, something about to happen to me. Like, yo, what the fuck is happening?

Phillip [00:05:45]:
When I'm sick like that? Sometimes I'll hold it in because I don't want to get up. Any marks wasted.

Eldar [00:05:50]:
You had enough. But like, bro, it's fucking 10:00 p.m. 11:00 p.m. About to go to sleep.

Phillip [00:05:53]:
Oh, yeah, it's bad.

Eldar [00:05:55]:
You have to get up. It's bad. Fine. If you're not going to go to sleep, you can hang out for half an hour, 20 minutes.

Phillip [00:06:00]:
If you had depends or like a.

Eldar [00:06:01]:
Diaper, would you pee there? Can you give me.

Phillip [00:06:04]:
I'll have to pee on myself.

Eldar [00:06:05]:
We'll say my sweater over there. Have you ever peed yourself behind the door? Please.

Phillip [00:06:08]:
Conscious maybe from laughing. Some pee probably came out. Probably like a little bit. Yeah, I would say probably a little bit. Did I ever pee myself, though?

Eldar [00:06:16]:
Not that I can remember. Not in adult life.

Phillip [00:06:19]:
I definitely had some shrapnel come out on the other side.

Vemir [00:06:21]:
I never had that. Yeah, but I had. When I was eleven, I was on the conversation with my best friend and I peed myself because I didn't want to leave the convo.

Eldar [00:06:30]:
Really? Holy shit.

Vemir [00:06:32]:
And then I finished the convo and then I went to change. That's loyalty, baby.

Phillip [00:06:37]:
Yeah, like, I've had like, a turtle head out and then, like, the turtle.

Eldar [00:06:39]:
Head, like, fell out.

Phillip [00:06:41]:
Loyalty over, like a bait in, like, a bathing suit.

Vemir [00:06:44]:
It's such a huge fear, you know.

Phillip [00:06:45]:
Like when you, like, you're.

Eldar [00:06:46]:
Oh, my God, you're like a pool.

Phillip [00:06:47]:
Like a swimming club or something like that. And they have food and all that. So you're eating, you're in your bathing suit, you're kind of hanging out. And then for me to get to the bathroom, I had to do like.

Vemir [00:06:55]:
The duck walk there on the way.

Phillip [00:06:58]:
Yeah, like on the way to the bathroom. And it would like, kind of.

Eldar [00:07:00]:
You got to pretend like nothing's happening but, you know, I'm bow legged.

Phillip [00:07:03]:
My duck leg duckwalk, like in the bathing suit. Going to the bathroom after you had.

Eldar [00:07:07]:
Like a hot dog and fries.

Vemir [00:07:08]:
Oh, my God, my dad was a.

Phillip [00:07:11]:
Cowboy on bowleggers and, like, bikinis. And you're trying to be cool and you're trying to.

Vemir [00:07:15]:
Then you do the reverse duck walk.

Eldar [00:07:16]:
Gut and stuff.

Phillip [00:07:17]:
And then trying to be, like, presentable. Yeah, it's very.

Eldar [00:07:20]:
With cell phones, it's easier just walk slow.

Phillip [00:07:24]:
If I had a distraction. If I had distraction. But when I was ten or whatever, eight or ten, whatever, it was like swim club, nobody had cell phones. People had beepers. And the flip phones are starting to get popular. But yeah, now everybody was looking at me walking.

Vemir [00:07:38]:
What age did you crumble and you got a phone crumble? I was like twelve or 13.

Eldar [00:07:45]:
Yeah, probably somewhere around there.

Phillip [00:07:47]:
Probably in the high school realm was probably in like the sophomore to junior realm. This is probably 15 to 16 years old. Yeah, same like a BlackBerry, maybe a flip phone, something like this.

Eldar [00:07:56]:
Mid high school, like, hey, you can.

Phillip [00:07:57]:
Have it to stay in touch. And then it was like, all right, a freshman is 1514, so a junior is probably 16. And then. Right, a junior, 17.

Vemir [00:08:08]:
So mid high school, how was that like, did the high school dynamic change? High school in two years because of the phones? My middle school definitely changed.

Phillip [00:08:17]:
You know, it was a big thing that changed. The communication was AOL instant messenger, the group chats. So if you're a kid and you can't go out, you don't have a car, you don't have anything. So you would have the dial up modem. You'd be in like a cool parent's basement. And you can be in these chats and you can say what age you are. And then you say, like, 18, female, whatever. And then you'd be like, yo, can you send me a pic? And then you try to get naked pics from girls and stuff.

Phillip [00:08:42]:
Like in the group chat.

Vemir [00:08:43]:
You don't know this or.

Eldar [00:08:44]:
No, this is the thing.

Vemir [00:08:45]:
Naked pics in the group chat.

Phillip [00:08:47]:
So we would be on a chat and we would say, I was a.

Vemir [00:08:49]:
Nerd when I was, we would say.

Phillip [00:08:50]:
Like 18 m. And we would have a picture of some, either an older guy, like in our high school or something like this.

Eldar [00:08:56]:
Right.

Phillip [00:08:56]:
And then we would say, how old are you? And then she'd be like, oh, let's exchange pictures. And we'd exchange pictures and you want to try to get a boo pic or something.

Vemir [00:09:04]:
Did you get.

Phillip [00:09:07]:
Success rate was very high.

Vemir [00:09:08]:
Is this underage porn? Because it was like teenagers?

Eldar [00:09:12]:
No.

Phillip [00:09:14]:
Well, the legal age in New Jersey is 16, so we were probably a little younger. In New Jersey it's 16.

Eldar [00:09:22]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:09:23]:
New York is 17.

Eldar [00:09:25]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:09:26]:
Well, that's useless info for me. Yeah, I heard it was 16, but there's like 16 and 18.

Eldar [00:09:33]:
There's a difference there.

Phillip [00:09:35]:
I think there's a different dynamic when a male is going after an older female versus a male going after a younger female. I think there's more protection for a woman in that a guy. Honestly, my dad's not going to have a big problem with, I don't know, older woman showing me.

Eldar [00:09:52]:
Thought it was your sales.

Katherine [00:09:53]:
No, it's different.

Phillip [00:09:54]:
I think it's very different dynamic.

Vemir [00:09:57]:
Yeah. I mean, in most cases, yeah. Do you think that this has nothing to do with drowning child experiment? But do you think it's a hard and fast rule or like, as I get older, I'm figuring out different dynamics by getting older. A 55 year old person dating a 25 year old person. It's legal, but people most think it's creepy. What do you think?

Phillip [00:10:24]:
25? So which one? The woman is the 25.

Eldar [00:10:29]:
Usually the girly is 20.

Vemir [00:10:30]:
Typically it's a guy.

Eldar [00:10:31]:
Yeah.

Phillip [00:10:32]:
So the examples now are like the Robert De Niro's and like the Vincent Queso.

Eldar [00:10:36]:
Yeah.

Phillip [00:10:37]:
These are like, they're having babies with these women.

Vemir [00:10:41]:
I think creepiness factor comes from the energy of the person. But some people have like a hard and fast rule.

Eldar [00:10:48]:
Well, the thing is, probably in most cases, there's some psychological things that the older guy is having.

Vemir [00:10:54]:
I would say issues.

Eldar [00:10:56]:
Yeah. Like midlife crisis. Yeah. For you has a lot of money.

Phillip [00:11:00]:
Let's say this, right. For a life experience for a guy who is 55 to 75, do you think that you can genuinely connect with an 18 to 23 year old woman? I personally do not think so.

Vemir [00:11:09]:
What if she's like illuminary?

Eldar [00:11:11]:
You can.

Phillip [00:11:12]:
Yeah, but on what type of levels, though?

Eldar [00:11:15]:
Well, yeah, it depends on your criteria.

Phillip [00:11:18]:
I'm saying it needs to be. The woman needs to have some type of, like, it could be a fetishy thing, but there also has to be a financial level. Like, these guys are very financially successful. I think a certain type of woman wants certain type of lifestyle but then.

Vemir [00:11:31]:
I think there's also potential for manipulation.

Phillip [00:11:35]:
Yeah, I think.

Vemir [00:11:36]:
But what if you're not a manipulative person?

Phillip [00:11:38]:
Yeah. There has to be a vulnerability in the woman, naturally, that guy, to me, to gravitate towards that. What's your pattern? Are you consistently going after that age? Are you changing it up? I think that would be indicative in terms of, are you going after this consistently?

Vemir [00:11:55]:
Yeah, because I feel like I have been constantly on the side of, like, it depends really, on the context. I think you can have, like, a 21 year old PhD woman who's a luminary and well traveled because her father was a diplomat and she's too mature for some 40 year old guys. Right. And then most of the time, it's like some guy just wants some young pussy and he takes advantage. But I feel like the context matters because it matters to me. Like, I've dated older women. For me, it's also, like, my age group in terms of maturity or the criteria I've raised my standards. I think it's harder for me to find someone that I want to be with.

Vemir [00:12:47]:
In terms of your own age? Yeah. Or at least as I'm getting older, the people I'm attracted to are getting a little bit older, just naturally. Like, I don't even ask their age. And then when I go on a date, they're like 26, 28.

Phillip [00:13:00]:
So I had that same thing is when I was younger, I always gravitated towards older. Now that I'm older, I gravitate.

Vemir [00:13:06]:
No way.

Phillip [00:13:07]:
Why is that the same thing? So when I was in my. Probably, like, that's funny. Early to, like, I say, like, early twenty s, I would go down to Belmont and go down the shore and stuff. I would like to hang out with women in their 40s.

Vemir [00:13:17]:
Milk.

Phillip [00:13:18]:
That was, to me, like, I was genuinely attracted to. Then I got older.

Eldar [00:13:22]:
Yeah. You better be careful. Dennis is going to use this against you, bro.

Phillip [00:13:26]:
Did you date one of my challenge?

Vemir [00:13:29]:
You'd challenge Dennis to beat you in the milk?

Phillip [00:13:32]:
No, no. He doesn't know about this yet, but I found it interesting.

Vemir [00:13:37]:
Did you bug this thing?

Phillip [00:13:39]:
Maybe it's more typical that as a man gets older, they want a younger woman. I think that's, to me, more. I see that more common. Well, I was reading about a couple of things in terms of, like, sexual peaks in men and women, which I think is pretty interesting.

Eldar [00:13:55]:
Ramire, can you push your mic just a little bit back towards.

Vemir [00:13:57]:
Too close.

Eldar [00:13:58]:
It's too close. Yeah.

Phillip [00:13:59]:
There's different schools of thoughts. People on peaks and things like this. But I think as a man gets older, I think for whatever reason, maybe like sexually, there's a different kind of important. There's a different kind of chemistry. I think there's definitely a sexual component, but I think a man would probably mature later in life. Also, typically, I think a woman matures usually quicker. Like if you see a woman in high school, you see the guys. I think the women are crazy.

Phillip [00:14:29]:
More mature than the men at a younger age.

Eldar [00:14:32]:
So it's easier to trick the younger.

Phillip [00:14:34]:
It's really normal.

Eldar [00:14:35]:
The younger guys. For an older man, it's easier to trick a younger girl.

Phillip [00:14:40]:
Yeah, I think that goes 100%. That's why we were saying so.

Eldar [00:14:43]:
It's not necessarily attractiveness.

Phillip [00:14:44]:
I think there's a manipulation vulnerability element.

Eldar [00:14:47]:
Like if you're a loser at 40 or 50. You know what I'm saying? If you're a loser at 40 or 50 and a 40 year old already knows. They've been through life, they've seen life, they're like, yeah, this fucking gig is not going to play with me. Yeah, but it will still play with a 20 year old.

Phillip [00:15:04]:
Right. That's why I was asking what do.

Eldar [00:15:06]:
You shouldn't be that man person should or not? No, but so many guys, so many.

Vemir [00:15:12]:
Guys who are older than me by decades are using the tactics that I gave up at 22. Embarrassing.

Eldar [00:15:19]:
It is, but it's what they know and what they can do is so.

Vemir [00:15:24]:
Important because we're just talking about so many different types of people.

Phillip [00:15:28]:
But do you think if you're 45 year old man, you genuinely find something interesting that you're connecting with on a 20 year old woman? Besides that she's vulnerable? I personally don't think it's a predator thing. I think so.

Eldar [00:15:38]:
Also.

Katherine [00:15:41]:
Agree with him. Maybe not always the case. Of course, I think it's possible for a young woman who, maybe she's really mature, maybe whatever. She has a hard time with people her age and goes for an older guy. But I feel it's very driven by vanity.

Phillip [00:16:00]:
Like physical, I think.

Eldar [00:16:02]:
No, but I also think that it's because it's easier. You got to understand, right, to those women, older guys like, oh, shit, he knows some shit. He saw life, he might be established or whatever. That older guy can put noodles on that young girl's head. Easier.

Vemir [00:16:17]:
Much more tested what is based by the older women. They're seasoned, they can filter easier. They look for long term, not just sex.

Eldar [00:16:24]:
Exactly.

Phillip [00:16:25]:
Isn't that what you have? It's easier. It's like, okay, what do you have, I have my car. I have my job. I have this. I have nice clothes. You don't almost have to have a conversation. It's just like, hey, you can be my accessory. You want to go on vacation?

Eldar [00:16:38]:
I agree with you. Listen.

Phillip [00:16:42]:
That'S how I think the conversation goes, though without even maybe that actually happening. It's kind of just like it's already assumed. It's assumed thing. Yeah.

Vemir [00:16:50]:
Maybe the woman has an older guy fetish.

Eldar [00:16:53]:
No, that's very successful guy. I don't think it's successful guy. No. You guys got to also understand that.

Vemir [00:17:01]:
If lifestyle is an extension of you.

Phillip [00:17:02]:
Though, if a woman, I can actually afford it.

Vemir [00:17:07]:
I have people in my life who are very wealthy, concerned about women chasing them for money.

Phillip [00:17:13]:
Well, because they're open to it. That's their problem.

Eldar [00:17:15]:
No, because they're stupid. They don't know how to make it properly.

Phillip [00:17:17]:
Yeah, that person's stupid.

Vemir [00:17:18]:
But again, the question comes up often, do they like me for me or my money? I often say money is an extension of you. You are a money maker. You are someone who can make money. That's also an attractive thing. Like, you know how to navigate the world in order to get.

Phillip [00:17:34]:
Well, this is what I found with that.

Vemir [00:17:35]:
That's not only a bad thing.

Phillip [00:17:37]:
Well, when you are that type of person, I guarantee the type of person that you're talking about is going to be somebody who's going to drive a certain type of car, live in a certain type of neighborhood because they're stupid. They're not going to basically hold back on their wealth. They're basically going to showcase it in some type of way and they're going to be nervous that it's going to be very easy to pick up that they're wealthy. They're not going to rely on the conversation and connecting on a genuine way. They're probably going to take them on a crazy first date, crazy vacation, and be like, why does she like me for my money? Because you took her to like a $20,000 a night vacation. What do you think the level of expectation you just set for this woman?

Vemir [00:18:13]:
Yeah, I have a funny story about.

Katherine [00:18:14]:
This has to do with values, too.

Eldar [00:18:16]:
Yeah.

Katherine [00:18:16]:
If you have the wealth, but also you love the wealth and you like money, that's going to come out in your conversation. It's part of your interest.

Eldar [00:18:27]:
If you thrive, you need that.

Katherine [00:18:30]:
That's going to come out in your conversation.

Vemir [00:18:33]:
So wealthy.

Katherine [00:18:35]:
Exactly. And then guess what? She's listening. Attention. And not to say, sure, there are gold diggers who are gold diggers that are just after that specifically. But it is an attractive trait in general to see a guy that may be successful or just has his shit together. You said it really well. That just can navigate life with.

Eldar [00:18:59]:
Well, no, you also not. Because if it's about money, the younger women have young insecurities. Right.

Katherine [00:19:04]:
Of course. You're broke in your 20s. Typically you're a student or you just.

Eldar [00:19:08]:
Figure, yeah, you probably don't like the zits on your face.

Katherine [00:19:10]:
We were broke in our 20s.

Eldar [00:19:12]:
You know what I mean? Yeah. And the older man can provide and alleviate some of that anxiety.

Katherine [00:19:17]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:19:18]:
I have a funny story about this. I went to visit me.

Eldar [00:19:20]:
We were broke. You're not still in your 20s. You know what I'm saying? You're not in your 20s.

Katherine [00:19:25]:
Struggling students there.

Vemir [00:19:27]:
So I went to go visit a friend.

Eldar [00:19:29]:
You see what I'm wearing right now? Hold on 1 second. Wow.

Vemir [00:19:35]:
Is that the Rolex?

Eldar [00:19:36]:
The yachty, baby.

Phillip [00:19:37]:
You switched it.

Eldar [00:19:37]:
You got the yachty? You got the yachty. I'll check it out. All right, cool.

Vemir [00:19:41]:
After we got priorities, let's talk about it.

Eldar [00:19:44]:
Let's give him the moral value first.

Vemir [00:19:46]:
I went to visit my friend, and he's staying with his family, and they live in a huge, complex, gated community view, top of the mountains, you name it.

Eldar [00:19:57]:
Right?

Vemir [00:19:57]:
Just stunning place. And it was the morning, and we were a little bit hungover, and we went out to the beautiful vista of the mountains. You can only see four houses, and they're all on the mountains. And he goes, yo, man, I can't pull anybody. I said, why? And it's because of, like, he kind of looks. He has a distinct look. I think he's attractive guy, but he's balding. He looks, like, way older than he is and just doesn't dress.

Vemir [00:20:28]:
Anyway, Walmart's fine, but that's what he wears. Only he drives this shitty car where you have to connect the wires to look at the top down, light and shit like that.

Eldar [00:20:37]:
Oh, man.

Vemir [00:20:38]:
He drives this real bum car. And I love the aesthetic. There's McDonald's in the back, and he drives into this huge complex, right? So, yeah, he was just complaining. He can't convince a girl that he has a mansion, looks like this homeless dude in this beat up car, and he's trying to say, oh, yeah, let's come back to my place. It's this huge mountain area, whatever. So he really tries to get someone to like them. That's not true, actually. He will leverage it when he wants to there you go.

Vemir [00:21:09]:
But he's not coming in, like suv, truck and shit like that. The only proof is what I know that his family is very wealthy, but there's no proof on the exterior. So he has to figure out how to connect.

Phillip [00:21:25]:
In that example, what I heard is that this guy has money, and it sounds like it could be inherited money and family has.

Vemir [00:21:33]:
Sounds like I'm bringing him here next time.

Phillip [00:21:36]:
But this kind of guy, I've seen this guy before also, and this type to me is that they understand that they have money and then they don't have to try. So not having to try is basically shown in. I don't need a nice car. I don't need nice clothes. I don't need to take care of my body or my hair or anything like this. And somebody's just going to like me for me. I don't think that guy.

Vemir [00:21:59]:
Interesting point.

Phillip [00:22:00]:
To me, that's like the ultimate level of lazy. And I usually see that in inherited.

Vemir [00:22:04]:
Well, okay. To his anonymous credit, he's one of the most beautiful humans I ever met. Like, just amazing person, personality. Let's say he has a lot to work on, but women don't like. So interesting Philip. I even brought him to my family, and they all shook his hand and said, we've heard a lot about you. Because I talk about him all the time.

Phillip [00:22:28]:
But he kept his clothes.

Vemir [00:22:30]:
Yeah, he kept his clothes on.

Eldar [00:22:32]:
Nobody wanted to see him make it.

Vemir [00:22:33]:
No, but they turned to me after.

Eldar [00:22:35]:
They're like, hey, what's the matter with him?

Vemir [00:22:38]:
I don't get it. They're like, I don't see what you see. And I'm like, it's my access I'm activating.

Phillip [00:22:44]:
Have you ever.

Eldar [00:22:45]:
They actually didn't see it.

Vemir [00:22:46]:
They didn't see it. Okay. I have experienced the magic with him.

Phillip [00:22:52]:
In the name of love and helping your friend. Have you ever considered hooking up with.

Vemir [00:22:56]:
Him in front of another girl to.

Phillip [00:22:57]:
Show how good he is?

Eldar [00:22:58]:
Oh, my God. We've showered together. Yeah.

Vemir [00:23:02]:
We're like, tender, but not gay. I've showered with him, and he's stacked, baby.

Eldar [00:23:11]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:23:12]:
He actually does, like a reverse setup for me. We'll go out, he'll bring girls, and he'll be like, vamir has the largest cock I've ever seen. He gave the eulogy at Steve Jobs'funeral, and then I can't come back from that. I'm like, I'm gay.

Eldar [00:23:29]:
Keep it humble. All right?

Vemir [00:23:32]:
Many stories there.

Eldar [00:23:33]:
Yeah, but tell us about what you wanted to say.

Vemir [00:23:35]:
The drowning child experiment. We waited for that. Right?

Eldar [00:23:37]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:23:38]:
So it's a thought experiment in philosophy.

Eldar [00:23:41]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:23:42]:
Essentially, you're walking in a park that you know very well.

Eldar [00:23:45]:
This is not blinding you while you speak, right?

Vemir [00:23:47]:
No, I'm looking at it for the.

Eldar [00:23:50]:
Record for that reason.

Vemir [00:23:53]:
That's why you turn the lights off. You got two lights on right now?

Eldar [00:23:55]:
Yeah. Okay, cool. I just wanted to make sure.

Vemir [00:23:57]:
Yeah. Now I'm thrown off. I'm, like, intimidated by. I can't even make eye contact. Essentially, you're walking in the park, and you know this park pretty well, and you see like, a fountain pond, and it's shallow enough that you could walk in it, but it's like 4ft, 3ft, whatever, and you see a kid splashing around. It looks like he's drowning, looks like he's in trouble, whatever. Classic signs of drowning. And you look around, no parents, no babysitter, nothing.

Vemir [00:24:32]:
It's nobody in sight except a kid and you. So now you have to act. You have to save this drowning child. Only problem is that you have your favorite shoes on and favorite pants. They're very expensive, so you don't have time to take them off and whatever, you have to immediately act. So what would you do in this scenario? It's kind of like pinholing you into an easy answer, right? You would obviously save the child, ruin your pants and your shoes. Now, the analogy being that there is global poverty, kids dying every year, maybe like millions, millions, maybe 10 million, I don't know. So instead of indulging in a restaurant, indulging in another pair of shoes, or otherwise, why don't you spend that money and give it to a charity that would provide a child's life to be saved? Something that's preventable is often a kid dies from preventable things.

Vemir [00:25:36]:
Right. Poverty or whatever else. The immediate pushback is like, I don't know which charity, because they'll manipulate. And first of all, there's infrastructure set up where it's completely transparent and, you know, 100% of whatever profits. So the administrative thing. But they say as an extension, maybe even if part of its bureaucracy, you still get to save a kid's life.

Eldar [00:25:59]:
Like it's proven, just to eliminate the.

Vemir [00:26:02]:
Unnecessary variable that your money will save a child. So why don't we do that? And this is from Peter Singer. It's a famous thought experiment, and I actually just wanted to present one more that I know personally. I took Peter Unger's class at NYU. Peter Unger is also very famous. He has a book called Empty Ideas, which I would recommend destroys analytical philosophy.

Eldar [00:26:25]:
Oh, shit.

Vemir [00:26:26]:
And so Dennis would love that one.

Eldar [00:26:29]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:26:30]:
He probably has the know. He, like, introduces that. Yeah. Peter Unger says his official statement, I don't know if this is his personal sentiment, but his official position on this is that you should give everything you have away to these charities besides your basic food and necessities in society. And even if you have to steal from your family and friends, you should do so in order to get as much money as possible to those who are dying of preventable issues or whatever classification you want to call it. So there's a lot to play around with this.

Eldar [00:27:07]:
Why? Well, you have to explain why. What's his reasoning?

Vemir [00:27:11]:
His reasoning for why you should do that?

Eldar [00:27:13]:
Yeah, because it's like, how does he calculate impact?

Vemir [00:27:16]:
Who? Peter Singer. Peter Unger.

Eldar [00:27:17]:
Peter Unger. He's the one who's saying, look, any access that you make, don't put that shit in the savings. Right. Save the world. Right. How does he calculate.

Vemir [00:27:30]:
Mean? Now, I'm pulling from my memory, but I would assume it's a utilitarian weighing of things. You're not suffering as much, and that suffering is not justified in comparison to someone dying. Like, your loss is far too minimal to be justified against their gain. Things like that.

Phillip [00:27:49]:
So he's saying that he's basically giving.

Vemir [00:27:51]:
Maybe an evening out of the world in terms of their balance, life quality, whatever.

Phillip [00:27:55]:
But if you have to sell everything and give it to an organization, you're basically saying, I'm not empowered enough to help anybody, that I need an organization.

Vemir [00:28:01]:
To do it for me. Well, because it's far away to some degree.

Eldar [00:28:05]:
Yeah, because there's a distance.

Vemir [00:28:08]:
And what's funny is there's two things I want to also note here. There's a counterexample that we see in people's actions. Why don't we do this more? Whatever. You go to New York City, you pass a homeless guy. That happens all the time.

Eldar [00:28:20]:
What? You throw him a bone.

Vemir [00:28:21]:
Throw him a bone.

Eldar [00:28:22]:
Right.

Vemir [00:28:22]:
A buck or whatever else, but a bone?

Eldar [00:28:25]:
Yeah, like a chicken wing bone. Literally a bone. Not throwing him a bone.

Vemir [00:28:31]:
Throw him like a half eaten, because you don't know how to eat chicken wings.

Eldar [00:28:36]:
We actually gave some homeless guy. We were driving somewhere.

Vemir [00:28:38]:
A bone.

Eldar [00:28:39]:
Yeah, before the UFC fight.

Vemir [00:28:41]:
That's insane.

Katherine [00:28:42]:
Elder always.

Eldar [00:28:43]:
No.

Phillip [00:28:43]:
Didn't you give him like a whole. You gave him a whole.

Eldar [00:28:45]:
We went somewhere to eat recently.

Phillip [00:28:47]:
No, we were in Patterson. Didn't we have a nice.

Eldar [00:28:48]:
Oh, yeah, we're in Patterson. I had chicken tray, big ass. Dish. Yeah.

Vemir [00:28:54]:
So the emotional sentiment is often, I think, the barrier. Like, we feel good when we donate our clothes to thrift stores and churches and stuff. We feel like we've done a lot or we help somebody out that we know that we love, which is a neat. Which is, I think, actually a measurable, definite impact. However, one more thing to present is Sam Harris. Sam Harris paralleled the statistics from somewhere. He said the difference between the middle class, like, the average person, and the top 1% in terms of life quality, the difference is as if we had cured cancer.

Eldar [00:29:33]:
Significant. Yeah.

Vemir [00:29:34]:
Their life quality is as if society had cured cancer.

Eldar [00:29:39]:
Really? Yeah. Can you give me again? I want to fucking.

Vemir [00:29:43]:
He just gave that bite there.

Eldar [00:29:45]:
That's all I heard from.

Vemir [00:29:48]:
Didn't.

Eldar [00:29:48]:
Okay. No, it's fine.

Vemir [00:29:49]:
I can look that paper up for you or whatever.

Eldar [00:29:52]:
That's a crazy statement, because he said, I want to know what the fuck are the quantifiers and what are the definitions of those?

Vemir [00:29:59]:
So Sam Harris also said that he donates to causes that he wouldn't necessarily be attracted to as an offset to your constant, typical psychological predisposition, meaning that he'll donate to, like, random things. Estonian homelessness, specifically for the mexican community in Estonia.

Eldar [00:30:21]:
Whatever.

Vemir [00:30:23]:
I'm armenian, so I would probably donate a million dollars to church. As an average human, I care about the issues that I struggled with or the people that I know.

Eldar [00:30:31]:
You got to go the opposite.

Vemir [00:30:32]:
He tries to offset.

Eldar [00:30:33]:
I don't know what you got to.

Vemir [00:30:33]:
Do, but he offsets that by doing that kind of stuff. So there's a lot of strategy. And on the drive here, I was thinking about, like, this is an extremely good motivator for improving yourself. Like, if you take the drowning trial experiment all the way down, instead of.

Eldar [00:30:51]:
In which sense, you said, it's improving.

Vemir [00:30:54]:
Yourself, in which sense, I'm just going to say, if you micro it, like, the reason to improve yourself, that pain of discipline is far smaller than other people's suffering. So if you discipline yourself enough to become very influential, impactful, wealthy, otherwise capable of philanthropic endeavors, that means that it's good for society. You should push yourself as much as possible, maybe so that you can help other people because their pain is greater than little discipline pain. And we take that for granted. That's something I thought on the way here.

Eldar [00:31:30]:
It's almost like the desire to. The only desire that the Buddhists are okaying, right? Buddha is okaying, is for you to get enlightened, because your desire to get enlightened benefits the world, right?

Vemir [00:31:44]:
And that's an impediment, right? Because desire is an impediment. But there's one thing about enlightenment which is interesting, is there's a bifurcation. There's two types. First one is you explode out of your body and you enter the astral plane and you become one with the universe or stuff that I don't understand. Like who?

Eldar [00:32:04]:
Like James.

Vemir [00:32:04]:
Who's Hamas?

Eldar [00:32:06]:
Our friend James. You know, James, long hair or short hair?

Phillip [00:32:09]:
His name's Hamas.

Eldar [00:32:12]:
James Hamas.

Vemir [00:32:15]:
Wait, James is the bald guy or the long haired guy?

Eldar [00:32:20]:
Facial features.

Vemir [00:32:21]:
Don't move with James.

Eldar [00:32:22]:
Come on. You forgot. This is your friend. Oh, James Salazar. He exploded into Colorado. There you go. He's coming back in February.

Vemir [00:32:35]:
Sorry, I'm not good with names. Faces.

Eldar [00:32:38]:
Who's bad with faces?

Vemir [00:32:39]:
People with that disorder, right?

Eldar [00:32:41]:
When people say, I'm terrible with names.

Vemir [00:32:43]:
When people say I'm good with faces, who's bad at faces? Like, one person. Anyway. So, yeah, James is in the astroplane. But everybody else, when you become enlightened, maybe you become like a osha or a Jesus Christ or a Buddha. You stay here to teach other people. So, yeah, I mean, that's probably one justification for why you go sweep with a broom in some temple or ashram so that you can help the world. This is a reason why people say, don't go into the cave and meditate for 40 years. You're here to serve.

Vemir [00:33:16]:
You're up too high. Other people are here suffering. You know what I mean? So is it selfish and whatever else? So, anyway, I've presented a lot at once.

Eldar [00:33:24]:
I just, like you said, absolutely nothing.

Vemir [00:33:26]:
What?

Eldar [00:33:27]:
Just to keep you humble.

Vemir [00:33:30]:
I'm a piece of shit, right? I got to learn to be kind to myself. I love when you look at somebody.

Eldar [00:33:35]:
And you wait, and I hear them.

Vemir [00:33:37]:
Sing a bunch of.

Eldar [00:33:38]:
And you just go, you know, you say absolutely nothing, right?

Vemir [00:33:41]:
You just look at them for their emotional reaction.

Eldar [00:33:44]:
Anyway, what is your question?

Vemir [00:33:47]:
My question is, what is your opinion, and would this change your behavior, this argument?

Eldar [00:33:54]:
Well, you presented three, so which one do you want to.

Vemir [00:33:58]:
What stance do you have right now as an immediate reaction to these arguments?

Eldar [00:34:03]:
Which one, though? You did present three. It's either one that you want. These are different opinions. With the drowning child?

Vemir [00:34:10]:
Yeah, you obviously saved the child. Why aren't you donating your money that's used on frivolous things that shine in the dark like a watch?

Vemir [00:34:22]:
Let me hear it, baby.

Mike [00:34:23]:
You're next. Be careful. Question pertaining so the thing is, why are you shopping and not donating? Go ahead. The thing is about donating. Right. From a person's perspective. Right. I think generally, if you survey the people and you were to get honest answers, people don't feel like their cup is full enough.

Mike [00:34:41]:
Right. I think you yourself have to be fulfilled as an individual in order to give back if you're at a deficit. And most people, I think, would say, like, hey, if you hear people complaining about all the time, about their job, their life, they're this, they're that. They're at a deficit. They don't have enough to be at a place that their life is quality.

Vemir [00:35:02]:
Well, they're wrong, right?

Eldar [00:35:04]:
No, they're not. No. They might be wrong, but they are right. Right. But they might be objectively wrong. But they're subjectively right. Yes.

Vemir [00:35:13]:
Why does that have any meaning?

Eldar [00:35:15]:
Because we live subjective lives.

Vemir [00:35:17]:
Yeah, but you're not justified just because you feel away when it doesn't get.

Mike [00:35:21]:
We're not trying to give him.

Vemir [00:35:22]:
He gets upset.

Eldar [00:35:23]:
He's not. Right. Yeah.

Vemir [00:35:24]:
You're just explaining their behavior.

Mike [00:35:26]:
I'm explaining the behavior. I'm not trying to give them a pass. They're bound by that thinking.

Vemir [00:35:31]:
So how do you unwrap that if they're objectively wrong?

Mike [00:35:34]:
Send them to Dennis rocks. Oh, shit. And let them listen in. Yeah. That's my number one thing that came to mind, is that most people, they're walking around complaining about life, about all their problems that they can't solve, that they probably don't really want to solve. Most of the time she's saying that the people that are at a deficit that might not look like they're at a deficit, they actually. Deficit. They're actually the drowning child.

Eldar [00:35:59]:
Why? Well, because they have their reasons. Right. But if they're. They're saying, like, hey, I'm going through a divorce. My wife is cheating on me. Would you consider a person who's in depression drowning, or the person has to be actually drowning in a place that they're drowning.

Vemir [00:36:12]:
You have to be not dying of hunger to deal with the issues of depression.

Eldar [00:36:16]:
That's a very idealistic statement.

Vemir [00:36:21]:
I'm not saying it's my opinion, but.

Mike [00:36:23]:
I'm explaining to you that in the world that we live in, that's very idealistic. Nobody lives like that. Nobody's like, okay, I have everything that I need. My stomach is full, I have roof over my head. Very humble everything. Humble house, humble fucking car, humble diet. And then now, because the person that jumps off the George Washington Bridge. I don't think he's.

Eldar [00:36:43]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Vemir [00:36:45]:
Suicide is a.

Eldar [00:36:46]:
Uh oh.

Vemir [00:36:47]:
Is that Dennis rocks?

Eldar [00:36:49]:
What the fuck?

Vemir [00:36:52]:
I think it's dying.

Katherine [00:36:54]:
No, that happened yesterday.

Eldar [00:36:56]:
It happens. That's what we heard. I started talking to her. I thought it was you. Yeah, like suicide, right?

Vemir [00:37:04]:
Suicide is the definite argument on your side.

Mike [00:37:08]:
Yeah, no, but the thing is, again, you don't have to die in order to suicide. Right. If you're living a life, you're depressed, you can't function. Are you alive or are you dead?

Vemir [00:37:18]:
Do you think it would be better if the whole world, nobody went hungry, but more people were depressed and alive.

Eldar [00:37:25]:
Like a kid that. Are we saying that under impression that if we die, death is actually like hell and it's the worst thing that can happen to us?

Vemir [00:37:34]:
Death is definitely the worst.

Eldar [00:37:36]:
That's the impression that we're under.

Vemir [00:37:40]:
Maybe some arguments in philosophy are that long term torture is worse than death.

Eldar [00:37:46]:
Sure. But even in religious texts, right. Certain. Like, what's happening in the Middle east right now. You know this, right?

Vemir [00:37:51]:
What's happening? I'm just kidding.

Eldar [00:37:53]:
You know what's happening in the Middle east, right? A lot of people are dying. Know, moms and dads are losing their kids, let's just say. And a lot of them are turning to God and saying, like, hey, it's God's will. You know what I mean? He took them from us or whatever. Right. And they're kind of embracing that process of, like, this is part of it. Okay, so they're not necessarily judging that dying is a bad thing. It's like being a martyr for the cause.

Vemir [00:38:19]:
Do you think that's justified in their eyes?

Eldar [00:38:22]:
Probably, but it's like, again, it's up to interpretation. We don't have a universal law or a rule to go against.

Vemir [00:38:31]:
I'm at the point where I don't feel like moral relativism is anything. Just because a million people have a perspective doesn't justify it.

Eldar [00:38:40]:
I agree. The reality of the. I agree with you. Yeah, but people get it wrong all the time. I agree. Especially massive amount of people. So how do we fix that? But nonetheless, until you prove to me that death is bad, isn't it? I don't have an argument with you to say, like, that child was bound to drown because what the fuck is he doing? Fucking splashing himself in the thing in the first place.

Vemir [00:39:00]:
I can present something.

Eldar [00:39:02]:
What you can present is, if you were to be honest, is you're going to say Darwinism and Darwinism, right. Is survival of the fittest this motherfucker got in there for what? Cause he didn't have parents? He didn't have this. He didn't have a life jacket. He ought to drown.

Vemir [00:39:16]:
He's innocent.

Eldar [00:39:18]:
See, that's an assumption, and I got a problem with that.

Vemir [00:39:21]:
Don't we take the fact that kids are mostly innocent?

Eldar [00:39:24]:
No.

Vemir [00:39:24]:
From their actions.

Eldar [00:39:25]:
How so? You believe in reincarnation, for example? No, they're not.

Vemir [00:39:28]:
Okay. All right. Let me do that high level thing. And you can deconstruct that?

Eldar [00:39:33]:
Sure.

Vemir [00:39:33]:
The high level thing is like when people say that death and war is God's will, they're kind of right when a kid drowns. Darwinism, it's also kind of right, being.

Eldar [00:39:44]:
That we have many of examples in nature to show that.

Vemir [00:39:50]:
Look, nature is not justified either.

Eldar [00:39:53]:
You know what I mean?

Vemir [00:39:53]:
Just because there's rape among dolphins and many, many other animals doesn't mean it's.

Eldar [00:39:58]:
Justified eating their own hamsters.

Vemir [00:39:59]:
Just because it exists doesn't mean it's the right thing. I would say today was the first day I imagined a dolphin getting raped. Yeah, they plan it. They organize and corner other dolphins to rape them. They strategize it.

Katherine [00:40:11]:
Well, I think I'm going home.

Vemir [00:40:13]:
Sorry.

Eldar [00:40:14]:
I'm going to go home.

Vemir [00:40:18]:
What I wanted to present there is like, let's say that you're trying to approach the divine, the ultimate right, realize who you are. Enlightenment. We are all one in that process. In the global sphere of tens of thousands, millions of years, whatever, there's going to be these acts of illusion.

Eldar [00:40:37]:
And how is a lion eating a gazelle an illusion?

Vemir [00:40:41]:
He doesn't know better. War. We don't know better. A kid drowns, it doesn't know better.

Phillip [00:40:46]:
How is the nature? I would argue that the animal only knows that and that's what is embodied.

Vemir [00:40:53]:
It's not wise. It's like it only knows things out of automatic behaviors.

Phillip [00:40:58]:
But how else does it survive?

Vemir [00:41:00]:
I'm saying that if a lion could be fed grass or something or whatever else, right? You could say veganism is justified because less suffering and less death, let's say.

Phillip [00:41:10]:
Then they have to be reliant on.

Eldar [00:41:12]:
Then you undermining.

Phillip [00:41:15]:
You're undermining nature.

Eldar [00:41:16]:
Yeah. You're undermining God. Yeah.

Vemir [00:41:18]:
No, I don't think so. I don't think that God is against nature. I'm saying that this is all part of the process of learning who you really are. If you become more conscious, then you cause less suffering.

Eldar [00:41:32]:
The assumption that death is suffering, that's the thing you're going out of that premise.

Vemir [00:41:36]:
No, I'm not assuming death is suffering.

Eldar [00:41:38]:
Or death is bad.

Vemir [00:41:39]:
I'm saying. Well, death, I think, is part of the natural process of reincarnation and all this stuff.

Eldar [00:41:45]:
Right, okay. Sure. There you go. So what's the problem with the kid dying?

Vemir [00:41:48]:
It's not a problem. I'm saying that it's possible to fix it.

Eldar [00:41:53]:
Why fix something that's natural?

Vemir [00:41:55]:
Because being natural doesn't mean that it's, like, perfect. You're assuming that something that's natural is the way it should be. That's not true.

Eldar [00:42:05]:
Why not?

Vemir [00:42:05]:
Because there are other, better ways to live. There's more beautiful ways.

Eldar [00:42:09]:
How so?

Vemir [00:42:10]:
If you are sitting in your garden and you get attacked by a lion.

Eldar [00:42:13]:
We fight.

Vemir [00:42:14]:
No, I'm saying you die. Yeah, let's say you die. In that scenario, sure. You're being deprived of a beautiful experience.

Eldar [00:42:21]:
Well, how do you know that I'm not going into another beautiful experience? I'm being like, there's no way into a portal into the next. Holy shit experience.

Phillip [00:42:30]:
Okay, so wouldn't then, in that lesson, if I had, like, a kid, right?

Eldar [00:42:34]:
The thing is, he's operating out of an assumption that I'm being deprived of an experience. Nonetheless. How does he know that I'm not going to get hit by a bus?

Phillip [00:42:44]:
Right?

Eldar [00:42:45]:
I didn't get eaten by a lion. I survived that. I got hit by a bus.

Vemir [00:42:48]:
Part of nature.

Phillip [00:42:50]:
No, but then what I'm saying is.

Vemir [00:42:51]:
That you can't become enlightened if you're dead.

Eldar [00:42:53]:
No.

Vemir [00:42:53]:
You don't even have the chance the next life.

Eldar [00:42:55]:
How do you know this?

Vemir [00:42:56]:
You're going to come back.

Eldar [00:42:57]:
But how do you know this?

Vemir [00:42:58]:
How do I know it? I'm just going off of what I've read, what I know, what I'm trying to reach towards.

Phillip [00:43:03]:
But if this is a problem, how.

Vemir [00:43:05]:
Do you know this is like. There's no way for any of us to. That's unfalsifiable. We can't talk about anything then.

Eldar [00:43:11]:
Okay, so if this is a problem.

Phillip [00:43:12]:
Then that guy would literally have to not be in the moment, not enjoying his gardening, anticipating constantly a leopard coming around and not being. Enjoying his life. I would argue that if he was anticipating this all the time, it would be a problem. Now, I think there's a happy medium where if he knows, okay, there's lions or there's bears coming around, it'd probably be smart that he would have a gun on hand. And I would say that person would then probably say if they died, right. And they had a kid, their kid would probably learn the hard way that they have to probably have a gun on location. And if a bear comes, they're going to probably have to grab the gun and try to try to kill the bear over time. To me, if I'm thinking about that, and then I'm not going to want to be outside and then I'm going to be in that example.

Phillip [00:43:57]:
I don't want to go to the bus station, I don't want to go to the city, I don't want to do anything that's potentially dangerous. And my life is going to be like a shell of itself. That's how I look at that.

Eldar [00:44:05]:
That's paranoia.

Vemir [00:44:07]:
There's a word like agrophobic. No, there's a necrophobia where you get into the point where you don't leave your house because you're so.

Eldar [00:44:17]:
We have this, we have a case of this. Our friend the bald lives next to a neighbor, is a young kid who doesn't leave his house.

Vemir [00:44:23]:
Agophobia.

Eldar [00:44:24]:
Correct. Ago. And he has this condition.

Vemir [00:44:26]:
This is wrong. But however in nature, tigers have anxiety. Why? Because sometimes. No, they have anxiety most of the time. I can't say most, but a lot of the time I see a lot.

Eldar [00:44:41]:
Of them basking and stuff.

Vemir [00:44:42]:
Yeah, but tigers specifically have anxiety because they're usually solitary versus lions, who are usually in a group and.

Eldar [00:44:49]:
Great.

Vemir [00:44:50]:
So tigers have anxiety because it takes a lot of energy to pounce and hunt for their prey. So they have to be constantly aware of when prey, which is not always, like, abundant, it comes by every so often. They have to be ready and aware to pounce. Otherwise, if they fuck it up, that anxiety, I'll tell you, because they get anxious because they have to anticipate their prey if they don't get it, the act of hunting is extremely exhausting and they lose more energy while they're already hungry.

Eldar [00:45:16]:
They're not efficient in their process.

Phillip [00:45:18]:
Universal for all tigers or only the bad ones?

Eldar [00:45:20]:
No, the ones that he came across.

Phillip [00:45:22]:
Yeah, because I'm saying I don't think.

Eldar [00:45:24]:
All tigers, the natural nation of a tiger. So he knows. He's speaking from experience, Philip. You can't say nothing.

Phillip [00:45:31]:
So this is like human speaking from experience, Philip, that's like generalizing humans and saying, like, all humans have anxiety because of this. And I would argue that if you have anxiety as a human, you're probably thinking about your past or anticipating the future and you're not dealing with now.

Eldar [00:45:46]:
I have a bigger question, babe. Why are you not doing anything to the kids in Africa. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Why are you shopping? Why are you shopping every day?

Katherine [00:45:57]:
Babe, it's complicated.

Eldar [00:45:58]:
What do you mean it's complicated? Just say how it is.

Katherine [00:45:59]:
It's complicated.

Eldar [00:46:01]:
Don't side with Mike. No, she's gonna.

Katherine [00:46:04]:
No, I agree.

Eldar [00:46:06]:
It justifies a fucking cause. Sorry.

Katherine [00:46:10]:
That. But also I have.

Eldar [00:46:13]:
You're the drowning child, babe. And shopping therapy is your rescuer. Yes. Do you know this? I said this. This is elderism.

Katherine [00:46:22]:
But I'm not saying that I'm right.

Eldar [00:46:26]:
But is your raft shopping? Is your raft.

Vemir [00:46:29]:
Isn't there a better raft? Like, can't you find land?

Eldar [00:46:32]:
I think that everybody has a process of. Everybody has their own raft, though.

Vemir [00:46:36]:
But they're not all effective. People use drugs. It doesn't work long term.

Eldar [00:46:40]:
Yeah. Nobody says. But I think it's case by case, however, right away.

Katherine [00:46:45]:
I do want to say one thing, though. Is that the times that. Am I donating or helping family out every single week? Probably not. But the times that I can help my family is in a third world country. They're Columbia.

Eldar [00:47:00]:
Babe, you don't got to do this plug.

Katherine [00:47:02]:
Okay? But there's always something going on. And if I can help out with something.

Eldar [00:47:07]:
You're a good person.

Katherine [00:47:07]:
I do.

Eldar [00:47:08]:
I love you, and you're a good person.

Phillip [00:47:09]:
And you have great.

Katherine [00:47:10]:
But you know what? I will say this. I don't do it for the pattern. No. I do it just generally because I want to help or it makes.

Eldar [00:47:19]:
His argument is saying that you could do more.

Katherine [00:47:22]:
No, it's true. Can I do more?

Eldar [00:47:24]:
Yes. No, I disagree with you.

Phillip [00:47:28]:
No, because Catwood chick, she likes. She knows good spots to eat. She knows good brands. She knows. I think that's value. I like that, too.

Eldar [00:47:35]:
Sure.

Phillip [00:47:36]:
That to me is valuable. I don't think that'silly.

Eldar [00:47:39]:
We're not examining the ripples of the effect that she's having on the world. Right. You see, she's making you happier. I like. Maybe if you're happier, then maybe you'd fucking donating.

Phillip [00:47:47]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:47:48]:
He's not dying of hunger, though. No, he is.

Eldar [00:47:52]:
We're all dying of hunger. Not the men dying for a bare knuckle. Listen, I think everybody has their progress.

Phillip [00:48:00]:
But we're talking about crutches, though. We're talking about crutches. Everybody's got a vice. Some people like drinking.

Eldar [00:48:07]:
Right now you're letting a woman speak.

Vemir [00:48:08]:
I'm just saying.

Phillip [00:48:10]:
What do you mean?

Eldar [00:48:11]:
Let gasses speak, bro. Get a word. I'm just joking, Phil. No, but don't you like oppressing women? Yes or no? A little bit.

Vemir [00:48:26]:
You're under oath, baby.

Eldar [00:48:27]:
Go ahead.

Phillip [00:48:28]:
I love women, and I love all races of people. I love everything, especially cat.

Eldar [00:48:34]:
Go ahead.

Katherine [00:48:35]:
Okay, so what are you asking? I don't know.

Eldar [00:48:38]:
Maybe that was just a joke.

Katherine [00:48:39]:
Okay.

Phillip [00:48:41]:
Yeah, but don't you think everybody has a vice? Like, certain people like to drink and go out, certain people like to maybe go shopping. Certain people like to listen, stay home.

Katherine [00:48:51]:
My thing is, how do you measure impact in America? We're lucky enough to have.

Eldar [00:48:58]:
I mean, you can, but it's goals met, but it's not valuable.

Katherine [00:49:01]:
Our needs are met. And so now, well, that's the thing. There's people in the world who don't even have food.

Eldar [00:49:06]:
What if I.

Katherine [00:49:08]:
But do I guilt myself every. You know, like, I'm not sure how to find a healthy medium where you're not guilting yourself every day. Like, oh, I'm waking up and I'm so blessed and I'm grateful, of course, but I don't know. I don't know how to bridge that gap.

Eldar [00:49:21]:
Listen, and I think it's a difficult dilemma, and that's why this is a very important topic, and that's why he brought it in.

Katherine [00:49:26]:
I mean, I've seen hunger since every time I go to Colombia. It's heartbreaking to see hunger like that. You see not just kids, but animals, dogs everywhere.

Vemir [00:49:36]:
And the fact that you visited the place gives you that visceral experience.

Katherine [00:49:40]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:49:41]:
A lot of people. It's just too far.

Katherine [00:49:48]:
No idea. A lot of people have not even left the US. Or even if they have, maybe you went to a luxury resort, or maybe you did this. A lot of people don't really know.

Eldar [00:49:57]:
Let me ask this question. Let me ask you this question. And this is the challenge to the ones that you read. Obviously. It's obviously the question to Peter Singer and stuff like that. Okay.

Vemir [00:50:12]:
What if I'm filling my cup and.

Eldar [00:50:15]:
I'm becoming slowly, I'm not going to say Elon Musk, right? But I'm going to say that I'm going to become somebody bigger than I am today. And therefore, based on my trajectory, I will be able to donate and make a much bigger impact if I was just giving away slowly a little bit of my paycheck. So what I'm saying is that. Right? We don't know. We don't know. Some people will make millionaires. Some people.

Katherine [00:50:39]:
You might make impact. I'm sorry. You might make different impact than just a monetary or financial impact.

Eldar [00:50:45]:
Correct. I'm comparing oranges to oranges, right? In the case where like, look, Vermeer, I'm not going to donate my money right now because actually I'm going to invest my money into education. My education. I'm going to go and finish master's degree. Then I'm going to go doctor's degree. And then doctor's degree will allow me to work here. And I'm going to ten x or 100 x my salary. And when I get there, I can then make a bigger impact because I'm still a good person and I can funnel a lot more money now.

Vemir [00:51:17]:
Thus, what I said before is like, that justifies you improving yourself because the pain of discipline is less than your ability to potentially impact way more people in the future. Like, example, if you agree with me once, I'm just going to say this is a very tender conflict. Actually, this is not easy. Let's say that you're 19 and you volunteer for a weekend. Good job. If you're like, oh, let's give a hard one. Andrew Tate. Andrew Tate donates 25 million a year.

Vemir [00:51:46]:
And how he got there was not so ethical. So I had this conversation when I was like 20 in a coffee shop with former friend, and he asked me.

Eldar [00:51:59]:
Vamir, I have those two.

Vemir [00:52:01]:
Don't worry, it's okay. Not my fault. Yeah, never.

Eldar [00:52:05]:
Not a philosopher who came.

Vemir [00:52:06]:
Not even once.

Eldar [00:52:07]:
No.

Vemir [00:52:08]:
So he said, well, vamir, I want to be a shark. I want to climb my way and step on those wealthy, greedy assholes and become the top of the hierarchy. Collect as much money as I can. When I'm 45, I'll donate $100 million. What do you think about that?

Eldar [00:52:23]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:52:24]:
And I think there is a weakness there. Not saying this is the main weakness, it's just one that points out to me is like, in 20 years, how many people have died on your path to success? There's people you could help.

Eldar [00:52:37]:
Now you're making a judgment call.

Vemir [00:52:39]:
There's that tender balance between, yes, if I give away all my resources now, it won't compound. Therefore, in the future, I'll have less. And I'm putting a disadvantage to myself a little bit. But there's people dying right now. How the fuck am I going to contribute now?

Eldar [00:52:53]:
Sure, because the people will be dead.

Vemir [00:52:55]:
By the time I am.

Eldar [00:52:58]:
You have to bring time as a variable in this whole situation. Because you say, okay, look, I could definitely help now and I can help 100 people, but if I wait ten years, I can help 1000 people. Right. Let's quantify the.

Vemir [00:53:10]:
This is what utilitarianism leans on. It's not the complete solution. I can tell you that very easily. Like, utilitarianism has its issues.

Phillip [00:53:18]:
But this sounds like we should talk.

Vemir [00:53:19]:
About time as an illusion also. That should be our second half of the podcast.

Phillip [00:53:22]:
That's very hard, but we're saying. But it sounds like money is the impact. What about the person?

Vemir [00:53:28]:
What's easily quantifiable?

Phillip [00:53:30]:
Yeah, but what about the person that's giving their time? If you just have money and you're giving money, right, is that necessarily a big impact?

Eldar [00:53:38]:
My problem is that he cannot quantify to me my kind action and where it leads to. Right? So, example, me and you, we know each other, but we really know each other, right? One day I come and I'm very kind to you without anything in return. You don't get anything in return. I held the door for you. I spoke to you a little bit or whatever. I made your day. I changed your life. And then you somehow did something else, and it's passed on, but we never know where it lands.

Eldar [00:54:06]:
You throw the rock into the lake and you see the ripples, but you don't see how far they actually go. Yeah.

Vemir [00:54:12]:
Can I push back?

Eldar [00:54:13]:
Of course you can.

Vemir [00:54:14]:
Richard Williams. Michael, you know where I was headed with this?

Eldar [00:54:18]:
Yeah. Okay.

Vemir [00:54:18]:
Michael Jackson's dad, Richard Williams. Elon Musk's dad, Errol Musk. They all were brutal and fucking tortured their kids. Maybe Richard Williams is number three on that list in terms of severity and descending order. But the issue is, like, those people brutalized those kids to get their outcome, and then they became great. So just being kind isn't always the path to helping someone make a huge impact either.

Eldar [00:54:47]:
Not one example.

Vemir [00:54:47]:
The most common CIA psychological tie is that childhood trauma breeds great success, breeds ambition.

Eldar [00:54:56]:
But even then, right, it's hard to measure the success of the impact itself.

Vemir [00:55:00]:
Because you can't throw your hands up and say, I can't do anything.

Eldar [00:55:04]:
You can say, steve Jobs created iPhones and brought everybody together, right? Put everybody on the quote unquote same page. But look at these motherfuckers with their attention spans now. They're fucking losing their minds because of social media, their self esteem and everything else. How did he contribute to that? It is fucking. Fucking think about what he was doing at that moment. We esteem him, right?

Vemir [00:55:27]:
But it's not evenly. Like, for example, okay, I don't agree with this argument because it's more murky than this, but Sam Harris says that Bill Gates is considered to be probably the most philanthropic guy financially he's like cured malaria, whatever.

Eldar [00:55:40]:
Well, the reason why he is, I think you realize what the fuck he fucking did, right? But he fucked everybody.

Vemir [00:55:45]:
He's an asshole. He was an asshole. All these kind of, like, depiction is of his character that kind of hits you deeper than billions of dollars, which is a bigger impact.

Eldar [00:55:54]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:55:55]:
So we're weighing in our mind the fact that someone's an asshole, even more so than donating so much damn money to these causes. And that is, I think, a cognitive issue. It's natural to do that, but it's not justified. I'm not saying that Bill Gates is to be worshipped. I'm just saying we often think being kind is the thing.

Eldar [00:56:19]:
I wonder the individuals, that being the kindest, with their philanthropic efforts, why the fuck are they doing that in the first place, you know what I'm saying?

Vemir [00:56:28]:
Being philanthropic and an asshole.

Katherine [00:56:31]:
Philanthropic.

Eldar [00:56:32]:
Philanthropic as much as possible. Why do you have that fucking urge?

Vemir [00:56:39]:
Does it matter?

Eldar [00:56:40]:
Yes, it does. Because at the end of the day, you have to understand what's the fucking intention behind this shit and why you're doing this in the first place. Are you fucking feeling guilty? Maybe.

Katherine [00:56:49]:
But if you're guilty for the write.

Eldar [00:56:52]:
Off, okay, I'm not even going in there. I'm not even going to. That's a low level.

Vemir [00:56:58]:
Do you care if it's $25 million? But it's a write off, but a million families get to eat? Is that a problem?

Eldar [00:57:03]:
Yeah, because I care about the 100 million that you affected.

Vemir [00:57:06]:
In terms of what?

Eldar [00:57:08]:
Of brainwashing everybody into social media. Yeah, but you see what I'm saying? What you're saying is that this motherfucker sat there, created a motherfucker thing. Right? Created a motherfucking thing, and said, I'm under the impression that this shit is going to connect the world. And it fucking did. And what fucking happened? Now he's seeing the fruits of his fucking labor, which he did not think through properly.

Vemir [00:57:32]:
Is that possible, to think it through properly?

Eldar [00:57:35]:
Well, then I'd be careful with creating shit. And that's a moral dilemma. That's the philosophical thing. Right? Poetry. You fucking know this shit about Plato, he said, yo, stop fucking making illusions out. Yeah, be careful.

Vemir [00:57:47]:
I'm not your guru.

Eldar [00:57:49]:
Yeah, you're influencing the fucking minds and the minds.

Vemir [00:57:52]:
That's why he criticized the state.

Eldar [00:57:53]:
Correct.

Vemir [00:57:54]:
But other people will do it if you don't. This is the conflict.

Eldar [00:57:58]:
But that's what I'm saying. No, I'm tying this to, ideally, we should be. What I'm saying is that why the fuck is he helping so much? You helped enough, bro. You created a computer enough.

Vemir [00:58:08]:
Why?

Eldar [00:58:09]:
You know what I'm saying? You're saying if you under the impression that you did so right for the people, why the fuck you have to do more? Okay.

Vemir [00:58:16]:
You're driven to be seen as a God in the eyes of other people, but you save 100 million lives. If you're fucked up. When you're dead, you're dead. But a lot of people were significantly, directly impacted positively. Maybe that guy has to go on to the next realm and then become enlightened one day. I'm not saying it's resolved.

Vemir [00:58:47]:
So do you do nothing?

Vemir [00:58:50]:
Because other people will take your place. Plato said, don't treat me as your guru. Ultimate humility. But the state took its place and influenced the people. So someone's going to do it, but.

Eldar [00:59:04]:
Nonetheless there's going to be consequences and they're going to be in accordance to what the merit was.

Vemir [00:59:09]:
So you're saying you should move forward with the knowledge you have and seek to improve and pay attention so that you can become more awakened on the journey.

Eldar [00:59:17]:
Correct.

Vemir [00:59:17]:
Okay. That means it's a tenuous line between helping, which, well, that's why realizing your mistakes and then moving on.

Eldar [00:59:24]:
But you're trying to subject individuals to say, look, you already have enough because some people don't have enough. That's the premise. And what I'm saying is that be careful with that judgment call.

Vemir [00:59:35]:
I had a manager, I'm not kidding. And I can reveal this because it's anonymous. He told me he had a discussion with his indian employee and he said, I'm glad the people in India are poor because they're not contributing to climate change.

Eldar [00:59:51]:
That's crazy.

Vemir [00:59:52]:
That's the craziest shit I ever heard in my.

Eldar [00:59:54]:
There you go. I agree with you.

Vemir [00:59:56]:
I got like chills even talking about it. It's sick.

Eldar [00:59:59]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:00:00]:
And as a leader of an organization, sick, sick mentality. But think about that.

Eldar [01:00:06]:
I think it's very typical. Think about that. I heard it. I think most people are going to be poor or lacking or not filled unless they have philosophy in their lives. Yeah. Because if you have the foundation that you're going to actually think about the right way to live, you're going to be very cautious in the choices that you make and you're also going to be very calculated how you treat people.

Vemir [01:00:32]:
It's hard. We can be too thoughtful also. A lot of people who are considerate are also. And I can discuss this directly because I'm in a risk. Existential risk reduction. And those circles, these people, I tell them, you're thinking too much about the best way to be sure, and then you do nothing.

Eldar [01:00:52]:
What's this?

Vemir [01:00:53]:
Beautiful. The thinnest possible line you can walk. What the hell are we doing? How the fuck you do that?

Eldar [01:00:58]:
Yes. You know what I mean. I agree.

Vemir [01:01:00]:
This is extremely difficult to calculate.

Eldar [01:01:04]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:01:04]:
So, action and reflection.

Eldar [01:01:07]:
If you do have that foundational philosophy, it's impossible not to ripple other people unless you live in a fucking box.

Vemir [01:01:12]:
Yeah, but my annoying head right now is justifying argument saying in two years of you learning philosophy, you could have done contribution. No, you couldn't follow the leader.

Eldar [01:01:20]:
Maybe you think you've been learning philosophy.

Vemir [01:01:22]:
No, I'm saying instead of doing philosophy, you should work in camps to help refugees. Yeah, but then you didn't learn enough. So, like, in ten years time, you're going to do less.

Eldar [01:01:33]:
Yeah. I don't want to make assumptions for people, but I think that the journeys that the people that are on, that are not willing to jump into that fucking little fountain.

Vemir [01:01:43]:
You have compassion for them.

Eldar [01:01:45]:
Yeah. They have a story. And until I understand the story is the reason why they're not able to save a life, I can't make a judgment call. You know what I'm saying? Yes, I have a hard time.

Vemir [01:01:56]:
I'm not saying we should judge them and guilt trip and force them. Is guilt trip efficient? Maybe it's a balance in your day, reflect on your sins. We don't even have the infrastructure. People will spend 6 hours on Netflix. That's fine sometimes, but it's like no meditation time. They took philosophy out of first grade.

Eldar [01:02:19]:
Did you know? But the thing is.

Vemir [01:02:21]:
Because they asked too many questions.

Eldar [01:02:23]:
Sure, but you'll miss your education system. You're underestimating how much of a gap that individual currently has in their life. Maybe this nearly hours. The 6 hours that they need to sit there and watch Netflix. And I preach this to my wife, which has been in a deficit for a very long time, said, yo, if you feel like this is what you need, fucking do it. Do it to the point where you can't do it no more. Because I personally think. Right.

Eldar [01:02:51]:
I personally think that you can watch Netflix. Only for so long. Only for so long. Trust me, bro. Tell all the alcoholics, no problem.

Vemir [01:03:02]:
40 years wasted.

Eldar [01:03:04]:
Why you say that? They taught a lot of lessons. I mean, I had a friend who was an alcoholic who passed away.

Vemir [01:03:09]:
You can learn a lesson a little bit easier than that, right?

Eldar [01:03:12]:
Sure. But nonetheless, it's a lesson. And whatever it takes, even if it takes a life.

Katherine [01:03:17]:
Yeah. We have so little control over.

Eldar [01:03:19]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:03:19]:
We have almost no control over it.

Eldar [01:03:21]:
Right.

Vemir [01:03:21]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:03:22]:
I think you have to be respectful towards the process.

Vemir [01:03:25]:
Maybe the way I'm describing it is too strong. Like I'm judging or hating.

Eldar [01:03:29]:
I think you're judging it. Like I said, I tell her, hey, the way I want to. Pressure. Stop guilt tripping yourself into cleaning a damn house. Right. Because it's stressing you out. It's putting pressure on you because you're fucking sleep deprived. Take a fucking nap.

Vemir [01:03:43]:
I needed that when I was there. I'm saying, like, that's.

Eldar [01:03:48]:
You became angry.

Vemir [01:03:50]:
What? No, I needed that nurturing sanctuary when I was down there. I'm saying that I recognize that from years of experience being lack of love. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this was extremely brutal. So it's like, what I'm saying is I probably could have avoided that too, right?

Eldar [01:04:17]:
Maybe.

Vemir [01:04:17]:
So I hope that we can set up an infrastructure for society to blossom and avoid these pitfalls.

Eldar [01:04:25]:
Elderism.

Vemir [01:04:26]:
Elderism, maybe.

Eldar [01:04:27]:
Sorry.

Vemir [01:04:27]:
Instead of the.

Eldar [01:04:28]:
Hold on 1 second.

Vemir [01:04:29]:
They should change the state of Israel to elderism.

Katherine [01:04:32]:
So you don't think those pitfalls are important, though?

Vemir [01:04:35]:
I don't think everybody needs to be a heroin addict as an extreme example.

Eldar [01:04:39]:
Oh, no. Yeah.

Vemir [01:04:40]:
You don't have to learn from that. Like my dad always says, people learn from their mistakes. Smart people learn from other people's.

Eldar [01:04:47]:
I'm telling you, that heroin addict gets.

Vemir [01:04:49]:
Fed up or dies.

Eldar [01:04:52]:
Sure. And that's part of it. But you don't. That's part of the gig.

Katherine [01:04:56]:
Led him or her.

Eldar [01:04:59]:
What I'm saying is that with enough acceptance, love, right.

Vemir [01:05:02]:
You don't.

Eldar [01:05:03]:
Unconditional positive regard. Unconditional positive regard. Heroin addict is no longer a heroin.

Vemir [01:05:09]:
This is the essence of God, essentially, what people point to, right?

Eldar [01:05:12]:
Sure.

Vemir [01:05:12]:
So we need more of spiritual awareness to teach people philosophy. Working. It's all ingredients.

Eldar [01:05:19]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:05:20]:
I'm saying, like, this goes back to the really difficult problem of government. Do you force people to do the right thing, or do you give them ultimate freedom? These are the two extremes.

Eldar [01:05:29]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:05:32]:
Like you tell your kids you can do whatever you want.

Eldar [01:05:34]:
No, the thing is, but the government is a necessary evil right now because we're all imbalanced.

Vemir [01:05:44]:
So I think we're eventually. Please go with me here, do you think we're eventually going to lead towards a trillion buddhas or we're going to destroy ourselves and reset until we get to that point? That's, I think, the long term thing.

Eldar [01:05:58]:
I think part of, if it's looking like destruction, then I think part. That's what we need, right? Destroy and destroy and rebuild. Destroy and rebuild.

Vemir [01:06:07]:
So that's the natural order of the universe? Yeah, for now, I'm saying we're part of that universe, the five of us, and we're aware. So you can poke something and it'll pull out. So I'm saying, like, the more you get aware, the more other people get aware, the more we all get aware. The less we avoid that destruction, the more we have somewhat of a utopia bullshit term.

Eldar [01:06:30]:
And what do you think we're doing here?

Vemir [01:06:31]:
We're doing it right now. I'm trying to work on the mechanics of extrapolation. How do we like. Let's say that I am trying to be the highest version, right. The most awakened I can. That includes with me being aware of these steps along the way. Like, I have fixed this, but I haven't fixed this in myself. The Japanese have fixed this, and the Syrians haven't fixed this, let's say these kind of things.

Vemir [01:07:08]:
So I'm saying it is all within us and at a larger scale, at every step of the way, there's this kind of like, yeah, but why are.

Eldar [01:07:16]:
You setting this bar for yourself?

Vemir [01:07:22]:
I have a justification as to why it's worth it is because you live a better life as a person.

Eldar [01:07:28]:
Who are you in the place that you currently are to think that you actually can make that judgment call?

Vemir [01:07:32]:
I don't have the full answer, but I have reduced my own suffering. And part of that spiritual process. Remember said level one, two, or three? We kind of hated that distinction somewhat, but somebody did.

Eldar [01:07:45]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:07:46]:
It works in the sense of when you wake up a little bit, you start to cry almost. You think so many people are.

Eldar [01:07:52]:
Do you not think that so many.

Vemir [01:07:54]:
People are going through this shit? Sure, and I evolved from it so I can help other people.

Eldar [01:07:59]:
Have you evolved fully or.

Vemir [01:08:00]:
No, there's no way I can say I would be fully evolved.

Eldar [01:08:03]:
Are you in a place where your cup is full?

Vemir [01:08:06]:
I think everybody's cup is overflowing. They're just not aware of it.

Eldar [01:08:10]:
Yeah, you're not lacking for anything.

Vemir [01:08:12]:
I'm saying that my lack of awareness is the only thing lacking.

Eldar [01:08:16]:
Well, that's a very, like.

Vemir [01:08:17]:
That's true for everybody.

Eldar [01:08:18]:
Very magical way to look at it, I think it's true. But day to day people don't feel.

Vemir [01:08:23]:
Like that because they're making a judgment call on their life, which is an illusion.

Eldar [01:08:29]:
Well, it's not an illusion to them, though. They're not just, it might be looking at it from the outside, you're like, yo, this guy, he has this, this and that. He's a billionaire. He must have everything that he needs, but he doesn't have the stuff that he actually needs. The stuff that will get him to a place where he's actually, I lived.

Vemir [01:08:46]:
In the same house in a year span. I was suicidal, and then I was very blissful and laughing. It's the same house, you know what I mean? It's my perspective that changed, and a lot of other things, of course, but it's like, this is why the victim mentality is very dangerous. This is like my tenet, I think. I think that in any situation, you can look around and see what you can control and what you cannot control. And I learned this, obviously, other places. But it's like if you learn that distinction, rather than thinking that the world is against you, which it might be, rather than you got a bad card handout, which it might be, if you can change something, you can make your world better, no matter the situation.

Eldar [01:09:26]:
So that means that he loves you.

Vemir [01:09:28]:
I think so, too.

Eldar [01:09:29]:
I think I got both of them.

Vemir [01:09:31]:
That means that I feel like your active is the only thing that matters. Maybe this child drowning thing donates $10 million.

Eldar [01:09:40]:
It might matter. But if your perspective that you're a world class swimmer and you go jump in the pool, you don't know how to swim, your perspective is not going to help you. Right?

Vemir [01:09:46]:
So you're wrong. You learn and then you learn. Well, illusions are 100%.

Eldar [01:09:49]:
That's what I'm saying.

Vemir [01:09:50]:
I'm saying everybody is filled with illusions, including me, that's for sure. I've cleared away some. I see, my friend.

Eldar [01:09:56]:
But the truth, the truth is the truth, though. If your cup is not full and you go out there, you try to do shit, it's going to be clearly pronounced.

Vemir [01:10:02]:
Yeah, but someone can give me business advice, and I give them romantic advice. Different cups.

Eldar [01:10:09]:
Yeah, sure. I think like a sad guru, there's a fundamental cup. There's this thing that's a fundamental cup. To be in a good place, I don't know if it's all encompassing, but I think that cup is the main one. And then you can go and you can add things to your life, but there's a baseline where you need to be in a good place in your own. And we could be delusional about that, I think. So maybe you're setting this dream from a place where, why do you feel like you have this, I don't know, maybe arrogance that you think that you can make this claim. Like, I want to do this great, great things where you're not even in a place where you're in a good place.

Eldar [01:10:55]:
Kind of like standing on your own feet, self sufficient, empowered to make that call. Maybe you might be a place when you reach that place. Like, actually my best benefit would be something. Not donate money, but donate my time. Open a school, I don't know, whatever.

Vemir [01:11:08]:
I think people set their bar too low. That's most people's problem. I can only do this or actually.

Eldar [01:11:18]:
The root of that is I think people.

Vemir [01:11:20]:
I can't do something.

Eldar [01:11:21]:
Okay, cool.

Vemir [01:11:22]:
So why I set my bar impossibly, let me tell you this, is because it brings me higher.

Eldar [01:11:26]:
Let me tell you this. Most people will hit their bar low and reach it. I personally think that people set their bars exactly for where they're at.

Vemir [01:11:33]:
Exactly what do you mean?

Eldar [01:11:35]:
Well, exactly where they're at.

Vemir [01:11:36]:
It sounds nice. And I think I know what you mean. Can you elaborate?

Eldar [01:11:39]:
Yeah. I think that you should not underestimate people's words about what they actually feel. If they have some kind of a blockage or some kind of a limit, that's exactly what they're going against. So if they say, that guy can only do ten push ups, but even though you might think, like, yo, based on your body, based on your physique, and based on what I saw, you can do 20, no, their mind is going to fucking write them a ten.

Vemir [01:12:03]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:12:05]:
For that moment.

Vemir [01:12:06]:
Their feelings can be wrong, though.

Eldar [01:12:09]:
Well, sure.

Vemir [01:12:10]:
You're not justified because, and I'm saying this about myself, obviously.

Eldar [01:12:13]:
Yeah, but you're not.

Vemir [01:12:14]:
I'm not justified because I feel away.

Eldar [01:12:16]:
Yeah, you know what I mean?

Vemir [01:12:17]:
Just because you feel something doesn't mean it's true.

Eldar [01:12:19]:
Agreed.

Vemir [01:12:20]:
There's no connection.

Eldar [01:12:21]:
Agreed.

Vemir [01:12:21]:
I mean, there's like an intuitive and spiritual connection, and that's very delicate and intricate, but it's like, just because you feel angry doesn't mean you're right. That's obvious. So why do we think that someone who's suffering and tells you, honestly, I'm really suffering because of this, that and the other thing. They're not. Usually, their reasons are not the reason why they're suffering, usually, but nonetheless, they're suffering.

Eldar [01:12:45]:
It could be illogical it could be.

Vemir [01:12:46]:
This is the fundamental cup you're talking about.

Eldar [01:12:49]:
Well, that's what I'm saying. People don't have the ability to logically look at things. They're going off of emotion and illogical. I just think you have a problem with their process.

Vemir [01:12:57]:
Yeah, I am impatient. I'll say that.

Eldar [01:13:01]:
You don't have the ability yet to extend the acceptance of. To say, like, okay, this person is at that level. You're definitely not ready to help people. No. Holy shit.

Vemir [01:13:11]:
The frustration is not like, I'm better than everybody else and I need to speed your process up. I accept that people may die without taking my advice. I'm trying actively as of two years, year and a half to reduce the outcome expectation. And that's what I think. In the Bible, they say, don't cast pearls before swine. This means that, yeah, your outcomes live.

Eldar [01:13:34]:
In the future and that do not.

Vemir [01:13:36]:
Give people advice when you know they're not going to take it.

Eldar [01:13:39]:
Correct. You have to teach when that ass.

Vemir [01:13:41]:
Being a good guru is also like knowing what level somebody 100%. So I'm just saying, like, if I give you some cold water and say, hey, donate more, maybe you'll think about it. Or like, hey, you're doing something wrong. You need to have the voice of truth. You can't coddle people's like, also, Sam Harris, a different podcast. He said, when I need my books edited, he has his wife as the editor. But he's like, when I need my books, like, honest feedback, I'm not going to ask a guy so that I get coddled and my little emotions now are good. But long term, I get it fucked up.

Vemir [01:14:19]:
It's a worse book. I want someone to give me honest criticism.

Eldar [01:14:21]:
I would say that.

Vemir [01:14:23]:
So I give people honest criticism. When I see something's wrong and I'll take the hit, I'll be that martyr or whatever else.

Eldar [01:14:30]:
I think that you might don't have the real ability to see whether or not your advice is being asked for that.

Vemir [01:14:38]:
I have worked on this, though, okay?

Eldar [01:14:41]:
That's what I think.

Vemir [01:14:41]:
That's where you maybe 30% better.

Eldar [01:14:44]:
You underestimate or you don't actually think or feel or listen enough or hear enough of what they actually are saying.

Vemir [01:14:53]:
Well, I talked about this with, sorry, Mike.

Eldar [01:14:57]:
No problem. You were going to say something. Yeah, I was going to say, I think it's easier to throw $10 million at a group of 10,000 people versus sitting down with one person individually and listening. It's easier getting to know and that's the challenge. Nobody has the patience or the time or the thing. Stamina. Yeah. Money is easy, bro.

Eldar [01:15:17]:
You take the money, you throw out this charity. You did good. You checked the box close. Everybody sit with me, right? Spend six months with me. Deal with my depression, my anxiety, my problems. So you're finding time for that.

Vemir [01:15:29]:
But now then you're saying the harder journey is to get people to wake up rather than donate $25 million. However, that means that. Extrapolating that you're saying, I'd rather there be ten people alive who are buddhas than 70 million suffering people.

Eldar [01:15:48]:
No, I think that that is why we have wars.

Vemir [01:15:51]:
Why? Because people don't sit down and understand each other.

Eldar [01:15:55]:
I think it's inevitable. I think the clashes of belief systems if come close enough. Like clouds, right? Certain clouds, what is it called? Them, I don't know, the nimbus clouds. You know, the clouds, there's a lot of different when they connect, right? One cloud versus the other. We have a storm. These are clouds.

Vemir [01:16:12]:
Nice analogy. I never heard that.

Eldar [01:16:14]:
Okay, cool. I just made that up.

Vemir [01:16:16]:
Gangster.

Eldar [01:16:17]:
One belief system, it's elderism. One belief system versus another. As soon as they come close enough together, they can't live together.

Vemir [01:16:22]:
Do you know why clouds are gray? Density raindrops are all clouds. Are only raindrops. If you have only a few raindrops, it's almost see through.

Eldar [01:16:31]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:16:31]:
As it gets more raindrops, the light cannot pass through as much, so it gets grayer and then it drops because of the weight of the cloud, is more raindrops. Isn't that so cool?

Eldar [01:16:41]:
That is cool. Yeah. What I'm saying is that's why you cry probably too. That's why. Polar opposite, the white and the dark clouds come together. They form a storm, a thunderstorm, and all this other stuff that happens, right? The reaction. I think that's what happens with a lot of people tuning into those belief systems, especially the incorrect ones, especially radical ones, right? And the life process takes itself. So let me ask you what happens is, right? They fight, they kill each other.

Eldar [01:17:08]:
A whole bunch of people are eradicated, right? It's not the people, okay?

Vemir [01:17:12]:
It's the belief system. Let me tell you something that I'm recognizing coming up a lot in my discussions. Sometimes I talk about what could be and people think I don't know about what is. For example, sometimes I'll explain how you can be spiritually, emotionally connected to a woman and you don't feel that you're getting played or you don't have to dominate. And they're like, yeah, but the average thing is the man dominates and tells the woman what to do. And they're just explaining to me the way that things are in nature. And I'm like, how do I communicate that? I know that without giving 40 paragraphs and say, look, yeah, we can move on from that, though, because of its toxicity or negative. What you're saying about war is.

Vemir [01:17:55]:
So, I mean, first of all, it's very beautifully explained, but it's also, like, to me, this is obvious. How do we move on? I'm trying to look at what's next, and people think, I don't know about what's happening.

Eldar [01:18:06]:
Yeah, but the war is super necessary, though. It has to take its course.

Vemir [01:18:10]:
If you're aware, can't you become someone who influences that? We don't need to always have wars.

Eldar [01:18:16]:
Who said that? The individuals that are prone to that kind of gravity. They have to go. They have to go. They have to go early.

Vemir [01:18:25]:
What do you mean? Oh, you're saying the Hamas people, they need to die because they're going to die?

Eldar [01:18:30]:
Yes.

Vemir [01:18:30]:
Not that we have to kill them. You're saying they're going to do that.

Eldar [01:18:32]:
Because of the way their makeup is. Right. The Jews and Palestinians or Russians and Ukrainians? Right. Because of the way their makeup is, they're not going to move. They're going to go and fight, and they ought to die.

Vemir [01:18:45]:
That's explainable. But how do we change that? That's clearly wrong.

Eldar [01:18:48]:
Education. How so? Well, yeah, that's definitely the answer, but how's that wrong? I don't understand how that's wrong. If we got to this point where these individuals have gotten these viruses and this Guy got a virus and these viruses don't coincide with one another, we got to kill each other, bro.

Vemir [01:19:08]:
You're in the game. You can fix that.

Eldar [01:19:10]:
No, but you're making it sound like. That's too late, bro.

Vemir [01:19:14]:
It's not too late.

Eldar [01:19:16]:
You want to fix it today, I'm talking about education. Education. 100 years.

Vemir [01:19:20]:
Who can I be to change that?

Eldar [01:19:22]:
Educator. Educator. You're making it sound like these people got here by accident. Yeah. Know what they're doing? They know exactly not doing.

Vemir [01:19:29]:
No, they don't know what they're doing.

Eldar [01:19:30]:
They were not taught love. Okay.

Vemir [01:19:32]:
If you knew the implication, you would never do it. So they don't know what they're doing.

Eldar [01:19:36]:
Yeah, but why? They think that they were grown this way. They were grown.

Vemir [01:19:41]:
That's a way to explain the way things are. That's true. I'm saying, how do we get to.

Eldar [01:19:45]:
The way things should be? Educating only through education.

Vemir [01:19:50]:
And I'm recognizing directly that you're saying this educational process is so long, they won't get it.

Eldar [01:19:55]:
And that's a normal thing.

Vemir [01:19:57]:
So you should be the example over your whole lifetime of the higher position.

Eldar [01:20:03]:
Yes.

Vemir [01:20:03]:
So how do I get there faster?

Eldar [01:20:05]:
People are. Why, again, coming in. Yeah. People are suffering. He's a sinner, bro. He's a sinner. Why can't he accept this? Because he's a sinner.

Katherine [01:20:14]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:20:14]:
He needs to make up for a sin. Why does he have this guilty conscience?

Vemir [01:20:18]:
No, I have an advantage.

Eldar [01:20:20]:
You used to be a fucking pharaoh, bro. You fucked a lot of people. What? Oh, yeah.

Vemir [01:20:25]:
I did one of those past life regression things. That's James.

Eldar [01:20:28]:
James.

Vemir [01:20:29]:
That's James World, baby.

Eldar [01:20:30]:
Astral plane.

Vemir [01:20:31]:
They told me I was a chinese emperor.

Eldar [01:20:34]:
See, you are bad, motherfucker. I got to do good. I got to compensating a lot. You're trying to buy your sins back.

Vemir [01:20:44]:
But I'm speed running, bro. I killed a lot.

Eldar [01:20:46]:
I did it all. I robbed.

Vemir [01:20:47]:
Now it's the life.

Eldar [01:20:48]:
Yeah, because you won't be able to live and liberate yourself.

Vemir [01:20:50]:
That's so funny. In the price my karmic bank account.

Eldar [01:20:55]:
You won't be able to actually enjoy yourself here and now. In the moment.

Vemir [01:20:58]:
Maybe next life, I'll be Osho. I told you about 40 years. Yeah, but I feel like. But I'm just now talking about my subjective experience, which is I feel like I was born with a little bit of a head start. Intuitively. I had such an averse reaction to things like gossip or some things that I learned people are still doing later in life that are toxic. I'm blessed, but it's also a huge responsibility. This rushed feeling is actually like, I feel like I'm waking up faster.

Vemir [01:21:32]:
I give people advice about porn and masturbation. I started that journey eight years ago. Let's say, like, a long time ago. I recognized.

Eldar [01:21:42]:
What, you helped people with this? Yeah.

Vemir [01:21:43]:
They had addictions. They couldn't connect to women. They couldn't control their proclivities in a healthy way. And they recognize themselves that it's an issue. Not even me. I'm telling them about my thing. They're like, oh, my God, I had this fucking issue. And so I have several guys who I talk to and give advice about relationships and avoiding the whole epidemic of pornography and all that shit.

Vemir [01:22:07]:
So I recognize, just objectively, I did that. I recognized that the jump when I was a teenager. It took me so long to fix it. But now I have the awareness to help guys who are my age, older than my age, younger, whatever else, and imagine my little cousins. I implant that in him strongly, and he has that awareness that nobody else is telling him. He'll be ahead of me, maybe.

Eldar [01:22:31]:
How many people did you guilt trip into not masturbating?

Vemir [01:22:35]:
I check on them in their room.

Eldar [01:22:37]:
To me, my wife is not available 24/7 you know what I'm saying? What the fuck you think I'm doing?

Vemir [01:22:41]:
You know what I mean?

Eldar [01:22:42]:
She's asleep.

Vemir [01:22:43]:
Are you using your watch hand? Are you using your watch hand for the weight?

Eldar [01:22:49]:
Yeah. No, I sit on my hand as long as possible. When it falls asleep, the stranger.

Vemir [01:22:54]:
Stranger.

Eldar [01:22:54]:
And it's like, oh, you close your.

Vemir [01:22:57]:
Eyes, you know what I mean? The stranger.

Eldar [01:23:00]:
This is Donald Trump talk. You know what I'm saying?

Vemir [01:23:04]:
The greatest sand job in the world, it's a stranger.

Eldar [01:23:11]:
Philip's like, wait a second, that works. A lot of people coming home today.

Phillip [01:23:14]:
Oh, that was one of the first ones that you learned, you tried and.

Eldar [01:23:17]:
You'Re like, yo, this is the stupidest shit I've ever seen. This is ridiculous.

Phillip [01:23:22]:
It's like when your hands, or like feet have like pins and needles in it, it's very uncomfortable. Yeah, I don't like those things. I don't want to self enjoy this.

Eldar [01:23:30]:
When you take a long shit and your feet fall asleep. I do not like it done.

Phillip [01:23:34]:
If I do this with my hands, I don't like it.

Vemir [01:23:37]:
That outweighs the benefit.

Eldar [01:23:39]:
I think Catherine wake up with this.

Phillip [01:23:41]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:23:41]:
To wake her hand up. You understand?

Phillip [01:23:43]:
No. If you're good at masturbating, you don't need to pins and needles your hand.

Eldar [01:23:46]:
No, the ants, I call them the ants.

Phillip [01:23:49]:
Yeah, you don't need the ants.

Vemir [01:23:50]:
That's what people say about giving yourself head. Like if you, you know, the people remove their ribs or.

Eldar [01:23:55]:
Oh, my God, malam.

Vemir [01:23:56]:
They said it feels more like you're giving a blow job than getting one.

Eldar [01:24:05]:
What they want.

Vemir [01:24:10]:
This is the police.

Phillip [01:24:11]:
What did you say that person said.

Vemir [01:24:13]:
To the employee, how can I help you? They said, the guys in India and the other guys, somewhere else.

Eldar [01:24:20]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:24:20]:
And he says they were having an argument about poverty. And the guy who's the american manager is somewhere else. Somewhere else.

Eldar [01:24:28]:
Okay.

Vemir [01:24:28]:
And affluent. More than indian poverty.

Eldar [01:24:31]:
Okay.

Vemir [01:24:32]:
And more, much more. And they said, I'm glad that Indians are poor because they're not contributing to climate change.

Phillip [01:24:40]:
Contributing to climate change.

Vemir [01:24:42]:
And that if they were in infrastructure and they had cars and they had electricity that they would be contributing to the global climate change.

Katherine [01:24:49]:
And it's such a large hug.

Vemir [01:24:51]:
He wants them to stay poor.

Katherine [01:24:53]:
That's crazy.

Eldar [01:24:54]:
How fucked is that, dude?

Vemir [01:24:58]:
I thought I was talking to a demon when he told me. He told me that. Candidly.

Eldar [01:25:02]:
Yeah. Proud of it.

Vemir [01:25:05]:
He had some wisdom or insight.

Eldar [01:25:07]:
Yeah, he thought he was all that.

Vemir [01:25:09]:
What the fuck, man?

Eldar [01:25:11]:
So what are we saying?

Vemir [01:25:12]:
And that also extrapolated to other things about him in terms of, like, you cannot hold that fucked up thing in isolation.

Eldar [01:25:21]:
No, it's everywhere.

Vemir [01:25:22]:
He treated women poorly everywhere. Cashed, hidden and toxic. And I found out his father, his father was angry, man.

Eldar [01:25:30]:
Oh, yeah.

Vemir [01:25:30]:
So there you go.

Eldar [01:25:32]:
Passed down.

Vemir [01:25:33]:
So he hates the rich, maybe, and the poor.

Katherine [01:25:40]:
I think what the world needs is healing.

Eldar [01:25:42]:
Well, that's the thing, again, attention. Making that statement again is going with what Vermeer is saying. We need something, right? And I think that the natural process is occurring and it is right.

Katherine [01:25:54]:
Is it crazy that I can agree with both?

Eldar [01:26:00]:
Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

Katherine [01:26:04]:
Why do we need healing? Because people are suffering.

Eldar [01:26:07]:
Sure. We definitely do need it. You know what I mean? And you can definitely promote certain things, but there is a process, and I think that the process will allow for things to come in only if it's part of the process. Right. So if you're not ready for it, for a certain type of knowledge, understanding. Like yoga, right. Five years removed, baby, let's go do yoga. What? Weird.

Eldar [01:26:31]:
Right now, babe, let's go do yoga. Hell, yeah. Why? There is a process and you had to ripen true for yoga. You might. In five more years, you might ripe into something else. You might ripe into God knows what, volunteering, whatever, right? Right now you're like, I need to fill myself. I can't give back. I don't have enough to give back.

Eldar [01:26:54]:
You know what I mean? But in five years, you might ripen to that. So there is a process. And a lot of times, I think as humans, we have a hard time understanding what that process is. And people like Vermeer, who are ambitious and want to help the world, they want to speed up that process. Like, wake up, wake up, wake up. Let's do good. Let's do good everywhere. All the time.

Eldar [01:27:13]:
All the time. The truth of the matter is you don't have the stamina. Because I believe you're the drowning child.

Vemir [01:27:20]:
That's, I think, true. We're all subtly drowning, or we choke on our water or whatever. I'll give you an example. And I really think that I need to go more within and just to serve without talking.

Eldar [01:27:33]:
Okay.

Vemir [01:27:34]:
But my voice also helps people, too, so just different layers. But when I was eight years old, my dad had a health crisis, and he went to doctors, whatever else. So he went to an ashram, and the guy took him in as if it was a normal thing. Just no embarrassment, no trepidation or hesitation. And he started doing yoga. And then when I was eight years old, he brought me to the yoga center. It's funny, because if you do the lion's pose as a kid, right, like all the adults are doing, it's funny. That was my favorite part.

Vemir [01:28:09]:
And the masala chai was really delicious. So that was my advantage there. Going. Being with my dad. We got nice lunch. I went until I was 18. When I was 18, I started getting severe depression, or being aware that it was depression, not just the way you should feel. And I started using yoga, meditation.

Vemir [01:28:28]:
The stuff in the teachings of the text really helped. I continued that journey for a long time. It's not the only source, but it was one of the main sources of my true spiritual path. I've met now. I still go. I went last Sunday to the same ashram. So it's like 20 years I've been there.

Eldar [01:28:48]:
Wow.

Vemir [01:28:49]:
That guy, the yoga instructor, he's still there. He's like, we got to do a changing of the guards. We're getting old. You got to take over as yogis and stuff like that.

Eldar [01:29:00]:
So he aged.

Vemir [01:29:02]:
Yeah. And I was on a hike with a dear friend of mine, and she was saying, like, you know Vamir, when we went on those hikes, those monastery retreats at the Lugos, he gives his regards, by the way, I got dinner with him.

Eldar [01:29:20]:
Oh, yeah. Nice.

Vemir [01:29:20]:
He sends his best to everybody here. Of course he remembers you.

Eldar [01:29:23]:
Obviously, we were talking about.

Vemir [01:29:25]:
I'll tell you about how the philosophy club meeting is going now. It's crazy what he told me. But my friend, she said, you know, I didn't know.

Eldar [01:29:34]:
We got to fucking pop out one day.

Vemir [01:29:35]:
Let's get dinner.

Eldar [01:29:36]:
Let's go in there. No, not dinner, but going. Oh, I'm going rocking over there at Bergen. Yeah, I got to pop in one time.

Vemir [01:29:43]:
I'm going to tell you that right away. I'll tell you the update.

Eldar [01:29:45]:
Okay.

Vemir [01:29:46]:
Just this last thing I was going to say is, she told me, like, vamir, I had no idea the impact you and everybody, whatever, had on planting those seeds eight years ago.

Eldar [01:29:58]:
Wow. I hike.

Vemir [01:30:00]:
It fills my spiritual cup. I don't know how other people go without it and how long it replenishes me to where I deplete and I need to go back. Maybe I should just go in all the time consistently. But it's like this little seed just going on hikes. My dad put that in me to go to yoga and go on hikes and stuff. Being in nature, I didn't understand it back then, being all these lessons, of course I learned. And now it's so clear to me. Right.

Vemir [01:30:26]:
And that took me 20 years. Ten years, whatever else.

Eldar [01:30:30]:
Yeah, but do you realize that the point of yoga is to never do yoga ever? Yeah.

Vemir [01:30:33]:
It's integration for meditation that prepares you for that Osho and stuff. They criticize yogis as being stuck there. Like they're like animals, right? They can do their contortions. And I thought this was very profound. So I think about when it comes to impatience and whatever else, there's this drive in me to improve because I see how much it impacts people and I feel like I need to be hard on myself and loving.

Eldar [01:30:59]:
Is that because you don't accept the world for what it is?

Vemir [01:31:01]:
Not at all. I accept the reality and the reasons why. Are there evolutionarily, biologically? Okay, let's say biologically. And how evolution has influenced society and the dance it's done. That doesn't mean that I want it to be that way. I accept the way it is, but I see the light in the future. Okay, I'm an egomaniac.

Eldar [01:31:24]:
Sure.

Vemir [01:31:24]:
Megalomaniac. Fucking crazy ego, maybe. But also I genuinely see that I have suffered less by doing these other things. Society taught me men can never be friends with women. How wrong was that? I have so many dear friends who are women, not sexual.

Eldar [01:31:41]:
Oh, shit. All right, new topic. New topic. That's it.

Vemir [01:31:46]:
I have friends who are extremely attractive. And my friend last week, she said something so beautiful. She said, there are people in my life who I recognize we would only go so far romantically. So I put them in the friend zone because I knew our longevity would be better as friends. She made that judgment call early, so.

Eldar [01:32:08]:
It'S like she's probably way off. If she's listening, she's way off. But okay, this woman, she also said.

Vemir [01:32:13]:
Like.

Eldar [01:32:15]:
Here comes the guys.

Vemir [01:32:17]:
People think that I can't be friends with girls without it being. I'm like, if you're mature enough, you can recognize attraction, hold it there and still be respectful. And it's not like you have to run towards all your biological tendencies. And why wouldn't you, like females, give.

Eldar [01:32:32]:
Me operating a little bit higher.

Vemir [01:32:34]:
That's what I'm saying. I'm saying you can do that and it's so beneficial to do that. And I'm, like, really passionate about that possibility because I've done it myself. Do you know what I'm saying? That's what feels right. I'm not saying I should force line up in the fucking census. One man and one woman. I'm saying that my life is so much better for having female friends. Genuinely? Yes.

Eldar [01:32:58]:
How so?

Vemir [01:32:59]:
I don't have one.

Eldar [01:33:00]:
I don't have one either.

Phillip [01:33:01]:
I've never had a woman in my life that there wasn't a component where there was some kind of attraction. There was some type of hanging out, hooking up, awkwardness, and then it kind of lingered afterwards. But I've never just met a woman and be like, wow, I really just want to hang out, get to know you, and there's nothing there. Then to me, I would then question either my sexuality or my sexual drive and where I'm at and why I don't want to do anything more with her. I think a true friendship to me is with a man. If you're a heterosexual man, I think you can have a true friendship by definition, because there's no sexual component. And I know that what we do is just based off of values conversation, and that can never cross over and be that because we both don't genuinely want that. I think if you're with a woman and you're a straight man, there's always a possibility that there is that different thing, that sexual component, and I think that changes the whole course of the relationship.

Phillip [01:34:01]:
And by definition, you can only be friendly with a girl. I don't think you can have a true friendship.

Vemir [01:34:07]:
Why not, girl?

Eldar [01:34:08]:
Because of what I just said.

Vemir [01:34:11]:
Why can't someone be attractive and you're still friends?

Phillip [01:34:15]:
Yeah, but what is your definition of.

Eldar [01:34:18]:
What's your definition of.

Phillip [01:34:19]:
What's your definition of friendship, though?

Vemir [01:34:21]:
I have family who's attractive and they're far enough away, you know what I'm saying? Where it's not like my mom. My mom was a model.

Eldar [01:34:29]:
What the fuck are you doing?

Vemir [01:34:30]:
I'm saying, like, I have friends.

Eldar [01:34:32]:
Doesn't schmidug himself. So he's all fucked up. Yeah, that's true. His thing doesn't. Wait, no. What is your definition?

Vemir [01:34:38]:
You can't have good relationships with your sister or your aunt or your daughter or your mom, your cousins, your second cousin.

Eldar [01:34:46]:
Family, though, it's not friends.

Vemir [01:34:47]:
Yeah, hold on.

Eldar [01:34:50]:
A family. Are you attractive to them?

Vemir [01:34:51]:
Wait, you never had a cousin. You thought, oh, beautiful or, like, a little bit closer to attracted than family. They're kind of, like, in the gray area a little bit if we're being intellectually honest, right? Yeah, there's some ambiguity, but you don't act on everything sometimes. I see.

Eldar [01:35:07]:
But there's plenty of strangers that are attractive. Why the fuck?

Vemir [01:35:09]:
I'm not saying you wouldn't go down that line, but you're still a good relationship with your cousin. So this is like, maybe a bridge.

Phillip [01:35:16]:
That's not friendship. That's very different.

Eldar [01:35:17]:
Okay.

Vemir [01:35:17]:
It's not very different.

Eldar [01:35:19]:
We have to discuss friendship.

Phillip [01:35:21]:
Yeah, I'm just asking what the definition of friendship.

Vemir [01:35:23]:
Are you getting my point? It's like your feelings might not be entirely platonic, but you can hold that maturely, recognize that.

Phillip [01:35:32]:
See, you can't be your genuine self.

Vemir [01:35:34]:
Yes, you can.

Phillip [01:35:34]:
You have to hold something. You have to hold something back with me and Mike are never going to the bathroom and be like, yo, bro, I've been needing to do this. That's never, ever going to be a component of our relationship.

Vemir [01:35:46]:
You're accepting it, not holding it back. Do you understand? There's a difference.

Phillip [01:35:51]:
I don't think you can be your genuine self. I think in that scenario that you're saying there is something.

Eldar [01:35:57]:
You got to actualize yourself, bro.

Phillip [01:35:59]:
There's something that, you know what I'm saying?

Eldar [01:36:01]:
And that individual, if you're really getting deep, like, yo, you're either going to, like, you're going to go even deeper. You got a nibble on this thing or not. You know what?

Vemir [01:36:10]:
Wrong. Don't.

Phillip [01:36:11]:
Don't you think that you're in that?

Vemir [01:36:12]:
Not true.

Phillip [01:36:13]:
That person's not being their true self.

Vemir [01:36:14]:
Not true.

Eldar [01:36:15]:
If you actually go into a friendship thing with a girl, it's funny, but if you go into a friendship with a girl, I don't know, I would say I have a deep friendship with Aldar. Right? Share with him a lot of deep things about things I'm going through. He supports me. He's a good friend. Like, true definition of what I would consider a good friend. If I had that with a girl, it would be impossible for me not to be attracted to her.

Vemir [01:36:36]:
That's your problem. I'm sorry.

Phillip [01:36:40]:
Why is that a bad problem?

Vemir [01:36:41]:
I retract that. It's normal for you to be attracted. It's not impossible for you not to engage and physically express.

Eldar [01:36:51]:
Well, you can hold. Yeah, you can develop self control is what you're saying. Nonetheless, the firing is the fire.

Vemir [01:36:56]:
But fuck my friend's wife. I want to fuck my friend's wife. I don't do it.

Eldar [01:37:00]:
Yeah, sure, but why?

Phillip [01:37:02]:
Yeah, but that natural. No, why is that a problem? Why is that natural thing inside of you that you are saying that you have to suppress or accept? Why is that a bad thing? That's a natural thing that's happening.

Vemir [01:37:13]:
I've been attracted to people who I shouldn't be attracted to.

Phillip [01:37:16]:
So then your relationship with that person, to me, is not true?

Vemir [01:37:19]:
That's not true. It's like you recognize someone's disabled, you don't laugh in their face, but it's still funny. That's self control. You accept that. It's fucking hilarious the way their face looks, but you don't laugh in their face.

Eldar [01:37:33]:
Dishonest. Tell your friend how you actually feel about them.

Vemir [01:37:36]:
I've told women how gorgeous they are. We're still friends.

Eldar [01:37:40]:
But you don't tell them that you want a schmiding them.

Vemir [01:37:41]:
No, they've told me they want to. Don't do it.

Eldar [01:37:45]:
Why not?

Vemir [01:37:46]:
Because my cup is full, baby. I'm in a relationship, for example. Not now, but I'm.

Phillip [01:37:53]:
What's friendship then? What is the friendship with that woman? Tell me that you're attracted to and you're showing acceptance to that. You're not going to act on it.

Eldar [01:38:02]:
Right.

Phillip [01:38:02]:
So you're being a gentleman, I guess, by definition. Right. But what are you extracting from that? And what's the definition of that versus a relationship that you would maybe like that Mike is describing with Eldar, to me the way that he described that, that's, to me, the idea of a.

Vemir [01:38:17]:
Friendship, if it's with a female.

Eldar [01:38:21]:
This is a foundation for a relationship to fall in love. The friendship. Why?

Vemir [01:38:25]:
Why are you putting in that box?

Eldar [01:38:26]:
Because that's what it is.

Vemir [01:38:27]:
It's not. This is an old world thought I.

Eldar [01:38:31]:
Wouldn'T know how to become, be so vulnerable with the opposite sex, share all my personal things and they would do the same to me. And for me not to have a connection with beyond friendship.

Vemir [01:38:41]:
I'm saying that you can learn how to do that and those feelings can learn.

Eldar [01:38:45]:
But why would I want to?

Phillip [01:38:46]:
Yeah, why would you want to when there's another option? So you don't have to go against your nature with Mike. We're not sitting.

Vemir [01:38:52]:
Nature is not justified.

Phillip [01:38:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:38:56]:
What would you get out of that? For what?

Phillip [01:38:57]:
Yeah, what is the point?

Vemir [01:38:59]:
I work through.

Eldar [01:39:00]:
He gets inside info. That's what it is, bro.

Vemir [01:39:02]:
She gives me, okay, my insider trading, my friend.

Phillip [01:39:05]:
Yeah, he gets the understanding of what.

Vemir [01:39:07]:
They should get, a woman's perspective. But I will tell you what it gives me. That's important. That's an important question.

Eldar [01:39:12]:
And then you have to be honest with us. Yeah. If you hung out with these attractive girls, which you call friends, and you got deep in the conversations and you never schmidook yourself afterwards, you hang it about them. Yeah. Thinking about them. You have to be honest here.

Vemir [01:39:26]:
What's the question?

Eldar [01:39:28]:
Whether or not you should off to them after?

Vemir [01:39:29]:
Yeah, no, I mean, not now, obviously, but used to. I will bend the knee here, or.

Eldar [01:39:37]:
Like.

Vemir [01:39:39]:
I'll give you what you want. There are women who I've been friends with, who I've had sex with after being friends. There's women who I've had.

Eldar [01:39:47]:
Why? Hold on. Why would you do that?

Vemir [01:39:49]:
Hold on.

Eldar [01:39:50]:
That's a violation.

Vemir [01:39:51]:
No, it's not a rule. There's women who I've been romantic.

Eldar [01:39:55]:
Keep going.

Vemir [01:39:56]:
This is good. There's women who I've had sex with, who we were friends. After the whole constellation of what you can imagine.

Phillip [01:40:01]:
Yeah, it's different.

Vemir [01:40:02]:
Each person. It doesn't mean that, do you want to fuck all of the women?

Eldar [01:40:08]:
That's the thing. If you box them in, into a friend, you ain't fucking fine. But you said, yeah, I boxed them in and then I fucked them.

Vemir [01:40:16]:
No, I don't want to box anybody in. It's always been ambiguous, wherever it leads, whatever else.

Eldar [01:40:21]:
So then this is some kind of dynamic that I don't understand.

Phillip [01:40:23]:
I don't understand it either.

Eldar [01:40:25]:
He's like a free flowing, like, I'm not just orgies all over the place. Whatever comes, whatever happens, happens.

Vemir [01:40:31]:
Maybe you would be uncomfortable if your wife was, like, really good friends with the straight guy. Right?

Phillip [01:40:39]:
I think that would be a very od relationship.

Eldar [01:40:41]:
Very od. At least in my thing, it's like, it's a little bit weird.

Vemir [01:40:45]:
What if they were childhood friends before you together, and never had the respect.

Eldar [01:40:50]:
That you have for your loving relationships? You understand the things around it that it's like you're not even willing to fucking compromise this kind of shit.

Phillip [01:41:00]:
You know?

Katherine [01:41:00]:
What does that.

Vemir [01:41:01]:
If you trust, you don't compromise.

Eldar [01:41:02]:
Yeah, why would no, like, the few.

Katherine [01:41:04]:
Guy friends that I did have and then once I met you, I was.

Eldar [01:41:08]:
Just like, because there's no motherfucker out there that can give you what.

Katherine [01:41:12]:
I think that could be true, too. There is almost like a natural distance that happens.

Eldar [01:41:16]:
I agree, because it's a respect.

Katherine [01:41:20]:
It's almost like, Mike, I'm good at what I do. In truth, it just kind of just happens on both ends. Everyone is kind of just, like, understanding.

Phillip [01:41:27]:
Of it, but it brings their.

Katherine [01:41:29]:
I think I would be a little, like, if you had a really close girlfriend. I'm not sure. I don't think I would be, like, a fan of that.

Phillip [01:41:38]:
Because I agree.

Vemir [01:41:40]:
Unless she's a laser. What?

Eldar [01:41:43]:
Or, no, a laser.

Vemir [01:41:44]:
Unless she's a laser.

Eldar [01:41:45]:
Yeah. What's a laser?

Katherine [01:41:51]:
A lot of times when you do.

Vemir [01:41:52]:
Have, like, Hillary Clinton.

Eldar [01:41:53]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:41:54]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:41:57]:
She got that little nub. You know what I'm saying? She got the nub.

Vemir [01:42:02]:
Oh, now we're talking decathlon. Decathlon. You know what I'm saying? The Wheaties. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, babe.

Eldar [01:42:10]:
Go ahead.

Vemir [01:42:11]:
All respect.

Eldar [01:42:12]:
Yeah.

Katherine [01:42:12]:
I will say, though, that I think that. I don't think it's impossible for you to have a genuine friendship with the opposite sex. I do see where they come from, but growing up and I don't have. This just doesn't happen anymore.

Eldar [01:42:29]:
You were that girl that used to have guy friends.

Katherine [01:42:30]:
Listen, I was the girl that had guy friends.

Eldar [01:42:33]:
That's right.

Katherine [01:42:33]:
I found it very. To hang out with girls. Girls were caddy, and they would talk about each other, and they would gossip and just, like, it was just. I never vibed. So my friends were guys.

Vemir [01:42:45]:
Was it comfortable?

Katherine [01:42:46]:
It was very comfortable. It was very comfortable. Guys. There's just something about guys that's just very easy and comfortable. However, I did have close girlfriends. Like, I still had one or two girlfriends that were very close. However, this happened a couple occasions where it was strictly friendship, and I don't find myself, like. I don't think I give confusing signals.

Katherine [01:43:11]:
I feel like I'm very clear.

Vemir [01:43:16]:
It works with Eldar.

Katherine [01:43:17]:
That was misconstrued on multiple occasions. And then eventually it was like, hey, they would tell me that they like me. And I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. It's just a friendship. I'm not interested in you.

Vemir [01:43:30]:
All of them.

Eldar [01:43:31]:
Why would you invite confusion?

Vemir [01:43:33]:
What were the type of guys that could sustain it that were really genuinely not looking to get in one day in the crowd?

Eldar [01:43:39]:
Those were the guys who were scared to tell her how they actually feel.

Katherine [01:43:41]:
I think ultimately, maybe they did like me, and then they just entertained the friendship as a way to probably have an in with me.

Vemir [01:43:49]:
I'm not like that. Can you genuinely say right now it's common? This is very common. It's not what I'm doing, but it has.

Eldar [01:43:56]:
You're saying you upper echelon we don't know, though.

Vemir [01:43:58]:
I'm not a God. I'm just saying I have.

Eldar [01:44:00]:
Next time bring this. Stop buying it.

Phillip [01:44:02]:
Can you genuinely say that out of all the girls, that there is an attraction?

Eldar [01:44:06]:
Right.

Phillip [01:44:06]:
So it's either intellectual, physical, or a combination of both.

Vemir [01:44:09]:
Right. If you're attracted, attracting. What do you mean? I'm attracted to my friends who are guys for their intellect.

Phillip [01:44:14]:
No, but I'm saying with these women that you're saying that you're friends with, you're attracted to them in some capacity, right?

Vemir [01:44:20]:
Physical or intellectual?

Eldar [01:44:21]:
Well, yeah, he's saying that they're beautiful.

Phillip [01:44:22]:
Yeah, there's something beautiful.

Vemir [01:44:23]:
Many of them are very beautiful.

Phillip [01:44:25]:
Okay, so you're saying that, but not all of them.

Vemir [01:44:27]:
Dude, I'm not saying all of them are. Like, I'm holding them on when I need to fuck. It's not like that.

Phillip [01:44:33]:
Okay, but you're saying that there are some. That if you guys were having fun that you guys wouldn't think about sleeping with each other.

Vemir [01:44:41]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:44:41]:
Ever.

Vemir [01:44:42]:
And I think that's natural that we would want to have sex with each other.

Eldar [01:44:46]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:44:46]:
Then I don't think that you're attracted to that.

Vemir [01:44:48]:
No, I'm saying there are women that I'm friends with who we might have sex one day. I don't know. There's some that I don't really.

Eldar [01:44:55]:
I mean, I see how that would be, like, lucrative for you to keep that in your back pocket.

Vemir [01:45:00]:
It's not the strategy.

Phillip [01:45:00]:
It's like an insurance policy.

Eldar [01:45:03]:
Yeah, I don't want to say that out loud.

Vemir [01:45:05]:
If you want to use that strategy, you should probably be friends with them so that they introduce you to their friends. I would do hot.

Phillip [01:45:12]:
I would pretend to be gay, and I would go shopping with them and I would have a whole brothel of them. I would let them feel comfortable, and.

Eldar [01:45:20]:
One day I'd be like, you know what? Turn me the other way.

Phillip [01:45:23]:
And all of a sudden, one day I come in, like, fucking super cool at yo, fuck it.

Eldar [01:45:28]:
I feel inside. Yeah. You know what? Give it a lot of thought here. You know what I mean?

Phillip [01:45:35]:
And they already trust me. They already like me. So it's just like a split personality, like, weird thing that comes about.

Vemir [01:45:40]:
That's so funny. You have to accept me for who I am. Schmidugal. I love this schmidugal.

Eldar [01:45:46]:
All of them.

Vemir [01:45:47]:
So are you saying I'm being ingenuine?

Eldar [01:45:49]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:45:49]:
I don't, because I'm definitely not being ingenuous.

Katherine [01:45:52]:
It's impossible to have. I feel like it can happen. But we've had this conversation before where we believe that. I guess maybe it's different when we.

Eldar [01:46:03]:
Took it to our next level. We wanted to schmidug each other. You know what I'm saying?

Phillip [01:46:06]:
Absolutely.

Katherine [01:46:08]:
But also, I'm happily married. I also don't crave to have friendships with guys. Sounds like you're satisfied.

Phillip [01:46:17]:
It sounds like you give me a.

Katherine [01:46:19]:
Couple of relationships with girls. Yeah, I don't have that. I guess maybe it's different. Maybe our view on that is different.

Eldar [01:46:27]:
Sure. Yeah.

Phillip [01:46:28]:
If you're in a relationship, I'd ask you the same question. And then I think then I would be interested in your response. Because being single, too. Oh, yeah. I like the concept of being able to have a bunch of girlfriends. But now that I'm older and I've had a bunch of relationships, I realized that I was somebody who I had, say, multiple girls, even in my phone, and maybe I wouldn't even text them. I remember I was in a relationship where I wasn't hitting somebody up and I was considered that maybe I thought I was friends with somebody, right? And they were texting me. And then my girlfriend was like, oh, who is that? And I was like, oh, it's so and so.

Katherine [01:47:01]:
Did she see your phone and say, hey, yeah.

Phillip [01:47:03]:
It's just like, yo, who is this? And I'm like, oh, it's so and so. Like, yeah, we're cool. And then she would ask me, what is that relationship? And I was like, oh, we used to hook up and then we don't anymore. There's nobody to me that's a girl, at least in me, in my life that I can think of genuinely that I stayed in touch with, that there wasn't some sort of attractiveness that we acted on or that was there. And then we realized that, hey, if you're in a relationship, I'm in a relationship. I'm going to respect your relationship. Because if I'm in your life, then there's then a possibility of me trying to then be attracted to you.

Vemir [01:47:42]:
That last part doesn't make sense to me. For what? If I respect your relationship, I can't talk to you. Or it's like, I mean, if you're building a home, it's going to be limited by the dynamics of the logistics. But it's like I've been in a relationship at the same time that my friend has been in a relationship who's a girl, and we're still friends. Like, we were engaging, laughing.

Phillip [01:48:05]:
She's in a relationship.

Vemir [01:48:06]:
Now, at the time, I'm saying both of us were in relationships separately. It's like, okay, maybe other people get jealous. How is that my fault? I don't understand. I'm not crossing it. I never cross that line between a.

Eldar [01:48:18]:
Relationship and a love. But I think there's a difference between a relationship and love. What he's saying is he had relationships. You know what I'm saying?

Vemir [01:48:27]:
I was in love.

Eldar [01:48:28]:
Okay, you were in love.

Vemir [01:48:29]:
Let's say, to my knowledge of what love is, I was in love.

Eldar [01:48:32]:
I would probably say.

Phillip [01:48:34]:
I would say you weren't.

Vemir [01:48:35]:
That's like a cop out. Like, your heart only belongs to one person. It's ridiculous.

Phillip [01:48:41]:
I would argue when you're married, argument.

Vemir [01:48:43]:
But, like, when you're married, you still find other people attractive.

Phillip [01:48:46]:
I would argue, but that's a typical marriage. And typical marriages don't work. So I would argue lack of fulfillment in that relationship. And I would also, just because you're.

Eldar [01:48:55]:
Married, you love your wife doesn't mean you see a girl that's attractive or a guy. You're not going to say, they're not attractive.

Vemir [01:49:00]:
Yeah, that's okay. So in the same way that you have restraint in a relationship when you're a friend with a girl, you find her attractive. But you could still talk to her, get lunch with her. I've gotten lunch with girls alone when we were both in relationships. I don't hide it.

Eldar [01:49:16]:
Yeah. Listen, you Armenians are built.

Vemir [01:49:19]:
No, Armenians is on that side. The other side, the french side of me. The french side of me.

Eldar [01:49:27]:
French is even worse than French.

Vemir [01:49:29]:
No, French is the most opposite of Armenian. So the French, they get dinner altogether with their ex wife, their mistress. They're all having dinner.

Eldar [01:49:40]:
So maybe why introduce that confusion into your relationship?

Vemir [01:49:42]:
Like, not confusion if you have respect for yourself? It's not confusing to me. I don't see it as a conflict.

Eldar [01:49:50]:
What I know are you getting from these people. Yeah, that, to me.

Phillip [01:49:53]:
What are you getting from that you can't get from a man?

Vemir [01:49:56]:
Friendship.

Eldar [01:49:56]:
Okay? Especially if you're attracted at the end of the day, like, yo, what can.

Phillip [01:50:00]:
You get from a man?

Eldar [01:50:01]:
Friendship.

Phillip [01:50:02]:
Yeah, but what can you get? What am I.

Katherine [01:50:05]:
These women have nothing to offer with me and Mike.

Vemir [01:50:09]:
No emotional resonance.

Phillip [01:50:11]:
No. We're talking about a definition of friendship.

Eldar [01:50:14]:
Right. Because once you say you're a definition.

Vemir [01:50:16]:
Only, how can I prove it to you? Look, women have different perspectives. There's an emotional resonance.

Eldar [01:50:23]:
Oh, yeah.

Vemir [01:50:24]:
We're using each other to flirt, but we're not hooking up. Okay, that's bullshit. So loved ones, that's bullshit.

Eldar [01:50:30]:
This is stroking, not your baloney, but your ego.

Vemir [01:50:33]:
There are women in professions where I learn about their profession. I can bullshit you all the way.

Phillip [01:50:37]:
Yeah, but you're a single guy and you're exploring women. I've been a beautiful thing.

Vemir [01:50:41]:
I'm not exploring these women for relate. I am hooked. Let's say at a time, how many.

Eldar [01:50:46]:
Of these attractive women do you have as friends and why didn't you bring them to the. Yeah, why are you disrespecting Michael, Phil? They're good looking philosopher.

Vemir [01:50:56]:
God, I didn't know that was welcomed. Like, I can bring girls for you guys.

Eldar [01:51:00]:
No, attractive ones. Attractive ones.

Vemir [01:51:02]:
But there's girls, that's what we call. Sorry for the phrase feed your boys.

Eldar [01:51:07]:
You know what I mean?

Vemir [01:51:07]:
You bring girls to set up a situation, we feed our boys. That's a different section than women you're friends with.

Eldar [01:51:16]:
What do you mean? Why would you not.

Phillip [01:51:17]:
He has different definitions.

Eldar [01:51:19]:
Wait, first of all, these are not the type of guys that are feed your boys type of guys. These are good guys.

Vemir [01:51:23]:
No, feed your boys is for guys you respect. You want them to have sex, you want them to have good relationships, you hook it up for your boys, you go out with your friends, you invite four girls to be with you. That's feeding your boys.

Eldar [01:51:35]:
No, but that's like.

Vemir [01:51:37]:
Okay, I'm talking about we want the best money.

Eldar [01:51:40]:
We want the cream of the crop. We want the best friends of girls that you're attractive with. That's not night out.

Vemir [01:51:46]:
That's not for a night out. That's like an introduction.

Eldar [01:51:48]:
That's different. We want falling in love. Only here, bring them over.

Phillip [01:51:55]:
I want a girl. Okay, so your friend, she's got sweatpants on, like no makeup. And you're just talking about fucking makeup shopping.

Vemir [01:52:05]:
See the way he's talking about it? We talk about shopping and makeup.

Eldar [01:52:09]:
What are you talking about?

Vemir [01:52:10]:
Like you being funny. There's no way that you think that I'm talking about makeup with a girl and it's all about girl.

Eldar [01:52:15]:
What do you talk about with a.

Phillip [01:52:17]:
Woman that you're attracted to and that does not lead to anything sexual.

Eldar [01:52:23]:
I don't want to say it. You don't want to say it? I don't want to bury the kid. What type of company.

Vemir [01:52:25]:
See how programmed it's impossible for you, right? It's fucking impossible, dude. Listen, you see how that this is a frustration. It's real to me. It's not real to you.

Eldar [01:52:36]:
No, the gap there.

Vemir [01:52:37]:
I think it's not that I'm better than you.

Eldar [01:52:39]:
It just ties into the initial conversation about lack of education and I think another part of his evolution.

Vemir [01:52:44]:
It's a good example.

Eldar [01:52:45]:
People are not having evolved, right. Mentally to live a life of virtue or philosophical lifestyle. It's lack of education and evolution. Right. And the same thing with this. It's also men are predisposed to do that. Have not involved from the animals that have sexual desires.

Vemir [01:53:04]:
Your family is for sex, but it's not true.

Eldar [01:53:06]:
It's the way.

Phillip [01:53:07]:
I don't want to not have sexual desires. I like my sexual desire. What the fuck? I love this makes babies.

Eldar [01:53:14]:
Yeah. This creates the greatest thing in life. I love it.

Vemir [01:53:18]:
I have them on full display. I never shy away.

Eldar [01:53:20]:
How many of these women do you have? Yes. How many you have in your attractive.

Phillip [01:53:24]:
I think it's called the hair.

Eldar [01:53:25]:
Just friends.

Phillip [01:53:26]:
How many do you have in your hair?

Vemir [01:53:29]:
It's not haram.

Eldar [01:53:30]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:53:31]:
If I give you a number. It's not that all of them are close. All of them are. You know what I mean? It's like I'd say, well, you're not allowed.

Eldar [01:53:36]:
Are they online friends? That changes everything.

Vemir [01:53:41]:
If I include professional, it's a lot more. But in terms of just friends, that doesn't count.

Phillip [01:53:45]:
Professional does not count.

Vemir [01:53:46]:
Why they're attractive.

Phillip [01:53:47]:
That's being women. Again, friendly versus friends.

Eldar [01:53:50]:
Very different.

Vemir [01:53:51]:
Friends is like seven or something like that.

Eldar [01:53:53]:
You use the word dear friends. This is a very specific.

Vemir [01:53:55]:
Oh, that's like.

Eldar [01:53:56]:
I don't even know what that means. Sounds very. What you're doing is right now you're doing fucking Haram. And you are holding Haram out guys away from all these girlies. What's happening here? No, you're talking about saving a drowning child. You got to fucking introduce people to one another. You know what I'm saying?

Phillip [01:54:12]:
If my father had friends that are.

Eldar [01:54:14]:
Women attract, that would be the weirdest.

Phillip [01:54:16]:
Shit I've ever heard in my life.

Eldar [01:54:18]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:54:18]:
My mom be like, yo, what the fuck is going on to me?

Eldar [01:54:22]:
What's his name? Mario. Mario. Mario.

Phillip [01:54:24]:
No chance. If my dad had just friends that were girls. That's fucking attractive. That is weird. Just think of like.

Vemir [01:54:31]:
Listen, think about like, imagine if my friend one day became the head of the UN.

Eldar [01:54:37]:
Okay?

Vemir [01:54:38]:
That's a good friend to have. Like, imagine you and your wife, you're going over to my friend's.

Phillip [01:54:47]:
There's something. That's why I asked what is the definition of the friendship? There has to be some other type.

Vemir [01:54:53]:
Of motive that maybe it's not an other type of motive.

Eldar [01:54:56]:
Possible not to have a motive. If I'm having so much fun with my friend, it's okay. Sooner or later, no nerve endings are going to meet.

Vemir [01:55:07]:
No.

Phillip [01:55:09]:
Then you're denying yourself the pleasure.

Eldar [01:55:10]:
Especially then you're sipping out somewhere.

Phillip [01:55:13]:
Yeah, you have to be sipping out somewhere.

Vemir [01:55:15]:
Bro, you just said is like you.

Eldar [01:55:17]:
Extrapolate that we can fix your problem.

Vemir [01:55:19]:
We'll be raping in the street.

Eldar [01:55:21]:
We can fix your problem.

Vemir [01:55:21]:
We'll be just having sex with everybody we see.

Phillip [01:55:24]:
No, this would turn into dating. The attractiveness would turn into dating women. Like a normal person.

Vemir [01:55:30]:
No, a normal person.

Phillip [01:55:33]:
Why am I putting that in a friend? What am I doing? I'm saying, like, oh, I'm attracted to you. I really like talking, but I'm going.

Eldar [01:55:38]:
To hold myself away.

Phillip [01:55:39]:
As soon as this comes out, I'm going to zen out and accept that this sexual feeling is going to come up. And I'm not going to deal with you, but I'm going to put you in this. Congratulations. You're in the fucking friendship zone. The dear friendship zone. There's only three. What is that person getting? Why are you not dating that person? But why are you not.

Eldar [01:55:59]:
He's asking, give it to us. If I'm a girl.

Vemir [01:56:02]:
Listen, I'm trying to answer like six times. You don't want the answer.

Eldar [01:56:05]:
What's the difference between what do you get from them? Yeah, what do you get from.

Vemir [01:56:11]:
Wait. Name a friend that's not here, that I don't know, I don't have. Just give me a name of somebody.

Eldar [01:56:17]:
Joe.

Vemir [01:56:17]:
Joe.

Eldar [01:56:18]:
Sure, there's a difference. He listens every week.

Vemir [01:56:20]:
What's up, Joe?

Eldar [01:56:21]:
Yo, what's up, Joe?

Vemir [01:56:22]:
Is he an average Joe or a trader Joe?

Eldar [01:56:24]:
No, he's a real Joe. He's the realest Joe I know. Okay.

Vemir [01:56:28]:
Joe and Mike have different qualities that you pull from. You have different conversations. They're both your friends. I have a friend who's a woman. I have a friend who's a guy. Way different experiences.

Phillip [01:56:41]:
Why do you stop yourself from dating the person that you're attracted to that's a woman?

Vemir [01:56:44]:
Because I have already that option with other women.

Eldar [01:56:47]:
How many girls are you dating at the time?

Vemir [01:56:49]:
Nobody.

Phillip [01:56:49]:
This guy didn't commit. He's able to do this as a result of not committing. He is able to come up with the illusion that he is able to be friends with these women if he picked one, committed to one. And he let you call this very strange behavior. This is very strange.

Eldar [01:57:03]:
How is.

Vemir [01:57:04]:
Oh, I love this definition. That's usually reserved for the other homies.

Eldar [01:57:07]:
No.

Phillip [01:57:11]:
Then to me, I would argue that not very strange.

Vemir [01:57:14]:
It's strange to you because you don't know what the outcome, what the quality, what the value is because you don't know what it's like.

Phillip [01:57:19]:
I've done this already.

Vemir [01:57:20]:
You told me you have no female friends.

Eldar [01:57:22]:
Yeah.

Phillip [01:57:22]:
Now, as a result of going through it, thinking that, I just asked me, what's the value?

Vemir [01:57:28]:
And you don't want to hear the answer. Okay, give it a rhetorical question for you. Give it to me. Right. The answer is there's like, of course, emotional resonance. I can talk about those kind of things, and they're better intuitively than a guy.

Eldar [01:57:40]:
Give us an example. What is it that we can't hold here, bro?

Vemir [01:57:46]:
And then they have the capacity to give perspective like you do. Are you saying that all men are better than giving a perspective than any woman?

Eldar [01:57:53]:
I'm not saying that.

Vemir [01:57:54]:
So you have to submit to the argument that women, specifically, my friends, whatever else, can give a unique perspective who know me, who we can talk about my relationship with another, move on, bro.

Eldar [01:58:06]:
Then life happens. No, they have bro.

Vemir [01:58:08]:
No, they have cultural interesting things that we connect on.

Eldar [01:58:13]:
If they're from another.

Phillip [01:58:15]:
Why do you not want to date?

Eldar [01:58:16]:
They grow.

Vemir [01:58:17]:
They're interesting people.

Phillip [01:58:18]:
Why does he not want to date this one, though?

Eldar [01:58:20]:
If you like her, you're interested. That's what I'm saying.

Phillip [01:58:22]:
Doesn't the natural progression say, I'm going to date them, or then you move on?

Eldar [01:58:25]:
Everything lines up. Like, everything lines up. Yeah. Feminist couch.

Katherine [01:58:29]:
Feminist couch. I don't know that. It's just not.

Vemir [01:58:35]:
How do I get through, though?

Katherine [01:58:37]:
That's what I'm trying to say. No, not about that. I don't know. I feel like they feel so strongly about it.

Vemir [01:58:42]:
Praise God.

Phillip [01:58:42]:
Yeah, but I did this as a person also. I went through and said, you try this thing. I have girls that I was friends with. And then I realized as you get older, if I am attracted to them, if we didn't have a relationship and it didn't work out, I would change my definition of friendship to friendly. I had a conversation with one of my good friends, and he has a wife now. And we were talking, and I was honest with her, and I was like, if he wasn't here, me and you would not be talking, we wouldn't have a relationship.

Eldar [01:59:15]:
Right.

Phillip [01:59:16]:
And she was kind of turned off by it, like, yeah, that's kind of weird. And I was like, listen, we were friends growing up, and it doesn't mean that I don't value her. I don't like her. I actually like hanging out with her. It's great. But if I started to hit her up and started to text her and I didn't include him in things, and then he would probably be like, yo, Philip, why are you talking to my wife and not talking to me? We have a friendship. I think that's very, very od behavior.

Vemir [01:59:43]:
Territorial.

Phillip [01:59:44]:
No.

Vemir [01:59:45]:
You're hiding something.

Phillip [01:59:46]:
No.

Vemir [01:59:46]:
You're saying that I wouldn't tell him or include him. That's a mistake. You hiding anything from me? No.

Phillip [01:59:53]:
Properly.

Vemir [01:59:53]:
And then him being territorial is his problem.

Phillip [01:59:55]:
No.

Vemir [01:59:56]:
If he sets the boundary, that's fine.

Phillip [01:59:59]:
But I properly defined it. Me and her are not friends. We are friendly as a result of my friendship with him.

Vemir [02:00:06]:
It's just a word.

Phillip [02:00:06]:
No, but if I was not friends with him, she would not be in my life. And if she was, then I would. Then possibly, if I did like her, I was attracted to her, then I would think about, oh, why don't I date that person? And if I didn't want to, then she wouldn't be in my life at all.

Vemir [02:00:23]:
That's your choice from your perspective. But it doesn't mean that's the way it has to be.

Phillip [02:00:28]:
Yeah, I just find it.

Eldar [02:00:31]:
I'm not sure. Obviously, I didn't do enough surveying, but I wonder, when you fall in love, Amir, like, actually fall in love and actually have a mate, whether or not how the dynamic of those relationships will change.

Phillip [02:00:42]:
That's what I'm saying. He needs to get to the point where he's in a committed relationship and he loves somebody and then ask, I did that. And you still felt the same.

Vemir [02:00:50]:
You're just telling me that I've never been in love then. Because I've had three girlfriends long term.

Eldar [02:00:56]:
And you still mingle with all those other ones, and the girl was okay with it, or you didn't tell her about it the way you manipulated them into it.

Vemir [02:01:04]:
Of course it's not manipulation if you're a certain type of person good at.

Eldar [02:01:08]:
What he does, he thinks, well, listen.

Vemir [02:01:11]:
There'S always some angle, right?

Eldar [02:01:15]:
Yes.

Vemir [02:01:16]:
You know what's funny? That's maybe the way you think. Do you know what I mean? And I'll give you an example.

Eldar [02:01:22]:
Are we good at what we do, or we're just a little bit behind?

Vemir [02:01:25]:
I am not the judgment.

Eldar [02:01:31]:
Wait for me, teacher.

Phillip [02:01:34]:
I want to know.

Eldar [02:01:35]:
I'd love to have girls that aren't anything yet I love that so much. I'm pouring my heart out.

Phillip [02:01:44]:
So let's do this. Take your girlfriends that are friends, bring them here, and then we'll all be friends.

Eldar [02:01:51]:
Would you love to observe this dynamic?

Phillip [02:01:52]:
I would love it. I wouldn't even say anything.

Eldar [02:01:54]:
How much money would you pay for?

Phillip [02:01:55]:
I would put a ski mask on and you can muzzle my mouth.

Eldar [02:01:58]:
You can duct tape it. I wouldn't say one thing.

Phillip [02:01:59]:
I'm just going to watch the whole.

Eldar [02:02:04]:
Right. You willing to go to dinner with them, pay for the meal and just sit silently?

Phillip [02:02:07]:
The whole. I'll get a table behind them.

Eldar [02:02:09]:
Would you use a Harry Potter invisible cloak to be there?

Phillip [02:02:13]:
I would.

Vemir [02:02:13]:
So we could jerk off.

Eldar [02:02:15]:
Obviously.

Phillip [02:02:16]:
That's when I get home because I'm a respectful gentleman.

Vemir [02:02:21]:
Don't lie to me.

Eldar [02:02:22]:
Don't lie to me.

Phillip [02:02:23]:
I would get a table behind them. I would just want to listen in, and I would maybe go to the bathroom. I would just visualize how they interact, what's happening, body language. You would take notes, conversation and just take notes. And I would pay for the whole meal. Uber black them there.

Eldar [02:02:36]:
Set it up, baby.

Phillip [02:02:37]:
I'll do the whole thing.

Eldar [02:02:38]:
You're saying that you'll probably encounter some strange behavior. No, you wouldn't. I'll pay for the one strange to you. Okay, can we do this?

Phillip [02:02:49]:
There's like, you provide the car service, I'll provide the dinner, and we meet in the middle and we get it done.

Eldar [02:02:56]:
You have to send us pictures of these seven girls, and we're going to choose the date. Okay. Yes.

Phillip [02:03:02]:
The dear friends.

Eldar [02:03:10]:
Wait, we're out of control.

Phillip [02:03:11]:
You have three or seven deers.

Eldar [02:03:14]:
War room.

Vemir [02:03:15]:
What's funny is are we good at.

Eldar [02:03:18]:
What we do or we're just, like, lacking behind completely?

Vemir [02:03:20]:
Oh, you're way behind.

Phillip [02:03:21]:
We're like, on the evolutionary chart. We're monkeys. We're like the little ones. Yeah.

Vemir [02:03:27]:
This is my favorite sarcasm that they do.

Eldar [02:03:29]:
They talk to themselves because they're making fun of me.

Phillip [02:03:39]:
If they see his watch, it's over. Yeah, no chance.

Eldar [02:03:45]:
Talking to me right now.

Phillip [02:03:46]:
Yeah, you have to take the watch.

Eldar [02:03:47]:
Your t's have to be crossed, and your I's have to be dotted, bro, when you're talking about.

Vemir [02:03:51]:
All right, so for example, just as an aside, I'm sure there's things people do in sex that other people think are very strange behavior, right. But it works for them and all that kind of stuff. There's dynamics that other people think are weird, that are normal and whatever else we have to go into that, maybe. But there's one really interesting part of this. I'll give you an example of an actual conflict that I face in my life constantly and why I'm a bit nervous sometimes in some situations, how this.

Eldar [02:04:21]:
Whole strategy is actually not working for me. No, cool. Listen, you might like he does that, I'll respect him a lot.

Vemir [02:04:26]:
No, I have nothing to hide here. I'm telling you how I think it is. Yeah, a lot of guys think that I'm trying to fuck their girl because of the way I behave.

Eldar [02:04:38]:
Oh, we could have told you that. We could have told you that without even.

Vemir [02:04:40]:
But I in my heart am not doing that. That's a serious difference.

Eldar [02:04:45]:
I know that. Yeah.

Katherine [02:04:46]:
No, I mean, it ties into what I said earlier about our relationship. It's not like we don't have some secret rule that, babe, you cannot have girlfriends. I cannot have guy friends.

Eldar [02:04:57]:
It's not necessary. Yeah, it's not needed. I don't know. I don't like anything from females. I would think that I don't like anything from females unless you uncover something to me like, yo, Elder, but you're missing out on this. Holy shit. Is that what you're saying? No, I have a woman.

Vemir [02:05:14]:
Wait, I mean, you're in a really healthy, beautiful relationship. I'm just saying like for the guys who are not even when you get married.

Phillip [02:05:22]:
Wait, so what if he misses from that one? Even when you would get from another one.

Vemir [02:05:27]:
Even when you get married, you spend less time with your guy friends.

Phillip [02:05:30]:
In general, I wouldn't say that's true for his relationship.

Eldar [02:05:34]:
That's why I said.

Phillip [02:05:37]:
Would you say you spend a good amount of time?

Vemir [02:05:39]:
Listen, Philip, in general, I actually think.

Eldar [02:05:41]:
I'm in love, guys. And part of being in love is considering one another and understanding each other's needs. Right? Catherine happens to love me and therefore she understands that part of me being with my friends is also an important part of me being myself, which fills me, and then I can give back to her.

Vemir [02:05:56]:
I think I've never been fulfilled enough that I actually chase women for their emotional. Otherwise, even if we're not in relationships, that's not how it is. Life is so much more full.

Eldar [02:06:06]:
Why are you getting frustrated? Because I feel, I do feel like.

Katherine [02:06:09]:
He'S going to take off his sweater.

Eldar [02:06:11]:
Yeah, he needs to. He's getting hot right now. I think he needs a pee. Like my body count.

Phillip [02:06:16]:
Wait, we pulling up the girls or no?

Eldar [02:06:19]:
What are we doing over here?

Phillip [02:06:21]:
Are we voting or no, we're a bunch of pigs. We're just going to label them one to ten.

Eldar [02:06:25]:
Get this fucking it. 9.5. Yeah. Show me. Harass. Yeah.

Vemir [02:06:32]:
One bite. Everybody knows the rules.

Eldar [02:06:34]:
Yeah.

Phillip [02:06:36]:
We're just a bunch of fucking rugged guys.

Eldar [02:06:39]:
Rugged guys. Yeah.

Phillip [02:06:40]:
We don't know, like, spiritually sound friendships with these french progressives.

Eldar [02:06:49]:
We don't travel to the south. They got hairy arms. I fell in love. All the girls that was dating or I was friends with, I called them up. I was like, yo, dating. I fell in love. Yeah, gigs up.

Phillip [02:07:00]:
Yeah, gigs up.

Eldar [02:07:00]:
Don't call me ever again.

Phillip [02:07:02]:
Done dating.

Eldar [02:07:03]:
Hear this. You know why? Because I was fucking focused and fulfilled by my wife or by my, at that time, girlfriend or my lover at that time. I was fucking so immersed. Like, what are you talking about, bro?

Vemir [02:07:16]:
You don't hang out with your sisters or aunts or cousins or mothers.

Phillip [02:07:20]:
That's the family route.

Vemir [02:07:21]:
But you get along with.

Eldar [02:07:22]:
Yeah, I do. But it'll provide anything, bro.

Katherine [02:07:25]:
With his very attractive younger cousin, Maria. She's over at her house.

Vemir [02:07:29]:
So what's the problem?

Katherine [02:07:30]:
His aunt.

Vemir [02:07:31]:
Yeah, there's a boundary there.

Eldar [02:07:32]:
Obviously.

Vemir [02:07:33]:
Naturally a boundary.

Phillip [02:07:33]:
The problem is, if I was at the house, I'm not at the house when she's there. That would be a problem. Maria wants my cousin.

Vemir [02:07:43]:
Yeah, but do you see? That's a woman to man relationship. That has no need for any escalation.

Eldar [02:07:52]:
I guess you can go deep, actually. Explain to us what it is that friendship means. I am friendly with her. With my cousin.

Phillip [02:08:00]:
Friendly.

Vemir [02:08:00]:
I'm not friendly friends.

Eldar [02:08:02]:
No. The truth is, Yvonne is attractive, and I'm friendly with her.

Vemir [02:08:06]:
Can't you accept the ambiguity of life?

Eldar [02:08:09]:
What does that mean?

Vemir [02:08:10]:
Yeah, we don't know. Not everything is hard lines.

Eldar [02:08:12]:
Well, this one, I think we're pretty sus.

Vemir [02:08:15]:
No, it's like, just the way that you're attracted.

Eldar [02:08:17]:
No, but that's how hard lines is. The way he's able to operate in these.

Vemir [02:08:22]:
I'm not a snake. Most people are snakes, maybe.

Eldar [02:08:25]:
No, you don't have to be a snake.

Vemir [02:08:27]:
No, you don't understand, though. I have to actively. In bars, when I'm really trying to date a woman, I have to actively fight against the fact they think all guys are trash. Fuck boys. This, that, and the other thing. Why they are programmed this way. So I have to convince them through my actions that I'm not like motives.

Eldar [02:08:46]:
Eldar. It's not ulterior motives. I feel the resistance all the time. What?

Vemir [02:08:51]:
They're precondition.

Phillip [02:08:52]:
He wants to present a good guy.

Eldar [02:08:56]:
Look at these fucking that's why you fucking ended up different. That's multiple angles. I'm going to tell you right now, bro. Holy shit. Yo, let me tell you right now. Sunday. We're going now. Sunday.

Eldar [02:09:12]:
Yeah, that's it. Coming with yeah. We're going to do this tactic that you do, bro.

Phillip [02:09:16]:
I want you to teach me men are good. Let me show you why. This is a good guy, good guy. But this is what happens with that guy. That guy ends up with a lot of female friends and he never dates.

Eldar [02:09:32]:
Out even though he got a hard on he'd like to pop up.

Phillip [02:09:38]:
That's where the lie is.

Eldar [02:09:39]:
He goes, he goes to a really hot one because he wants to befriend them.

Vemir [02:09:44]:
And then my filter is also there.

Eldar [02:09:47]:
Like if they're sober and I have.

Phillip [02:09:50]:
To helping all of us by saying, hey, you know, they're not men.

Vemir [02:09:54]:
Stock.

Phillip [02:09:57]:
You're welcome, guys, I got this one.

Eldar [02:10:03]:
I'm a martyr.

Phillip [02:10:04]:
You guys keep fucking doing crazy shit, talking about boobs. I'm going to approach with sophistication.

Eldar [02:10:11]:
Sophistication.

Phillip [02:10:13]:
He's saying he doesn't like, he doesn't like lions.

Vemir [02:10:19]:
And engage.

Eldar [02:10:20]:
He's afraid my standards get higher for the women.

Phillip [02:10:22]:
I'm afraid of natural things. And I think that he fucking takes the morning boner. He talks down.

Vemir [02:10:29]:
Being around women more.

Eldar [02:10:30]:
Allows you figure it out. What's the matter with you? What did I tell you? Why are you doing this?

Vemir [02:10:41]:
Having female french.

Eldar [02:10:43]:
Oh, guys, crazy question. Crazy question. Do you throw cold water on the morning boner?

Vemir [02:11:13]:
I got like a protein shake bottle. So what we were talking about, there's other reasons, but there's a crystallized, a crystallized reason. When you have female friends, you can understand women more. You can understand women.

Eldar [02:11:34]:
Okay. For what? For what?

Vemir [02:11:40]:
They can give you perspective from a woman's perspective.

Eldar [02:11:43]:
For what?

Vemir [02:11:44]:
This gives you knowledge and understanding about the world. What with your girlfriend or wife, you.

Eldar [02:11:49]:
Can understand how they think to get.

Phillip [02:11:52]:
In their loving relationship.

Vemir [02:11:54]:
Not for them. Not for them. Women can give you perspective. So you understand women in general?

Eldar [02:12:00]:
Yeah. A lot of times you're under the impression that women actually understand what the fuck they're saying.

Vemir [02:12:04]:
They definitely can give you something.

Eldar [02:12:06]:
And I'm telling you right now, and I'm going to tell you right now, and I'm going to tell you right now, are those women in a healthy, loving relationships that you're talking to?

Vemir [02:12:14]:
Sometimes.

Eldar [02:12:16]:
Give me some.

Vemir [02:12:17]:
And I would say that it's true. When they're in a healthy, loving relationship, it's a little bit more. Less time with each other and stuff. And that's natural. Doesn't take away from the value of the premiere.

Eldar [02:12:28]:
Whatever. You said. Sunday, we're going to Brooklyn to a russian party. All right, I want to see this kind of tactic that you simp. You try to bring out the simp.

Vemir [02:12:39]:
No, I don't simp. Not even one percentage? I try not to. I don't like simping. It's unhealthy and it's lying.

Phillip [02:12:45]:
Honey, I'm going bike riding with Vermeer. Oh, I love that guy, man. Good straight guy, good body, really smart. I love it.

Eldar [02:12:53]:
You know what?

Phillip [02:12:54]:
Take my card, go out.

Eldar [02:12:56]:
You know what?

Phillip [02:12:57]:
Get a hotel room. I fucking trust the shit out of.

Eldar [02:13:01]:
Spend the whole day with.

Phillip [02:13:02]:
I love it. One day. That's not enough.

Eldar [02:13:04]:
You need a weekend. Get out of the house. Yeah, okay.

Vemir [02:13:14]:
That's a real issue, though. But even when I was insecure, I went away to Coachella and I left my girl with my boy. And I said, can you take care?

Eldar [02:13:24]:
Coachella is where they do all the drugs.

Vemir [02:13:25]:
No, I was at. No, sorry, I didn't explain it.

Eldar [02:13:30]:
Okay.

Vemir [02:13:31]:
I went to Coachella. She was in my apartment in New York. I asked my boy, can you take her out, keep her busy while I'm gone?

Eldar [02:13:36]:
Whoa, what the hell? What kind of friendship do you have? How many times a day did he have to walk her? Yeah, how many times did he have to walk her?

Phillip [02:13:45]:
Make sure you fill up her water. She needs to take four anxiety pills.

Katherine [02:13:53]:
Genuinely, she's got her special pjs. Why was that necessary?

Eldar [02:13:58]:
Well, somebody has to keep an eye on her. What do you mean?

Vemir [02:14:01]:
She was new to New York, she's none of my friends.

Katherine [02:14:04]:
And she was visiting my apartment, she.

Vemir [02:14:07]:
Was going to school there. She just didn't meet anybody that much. And good friend. I trust my friend.

Eldar [02:14:11]:
What's the problem? Did he. Schmidinger? Because I know you had the cameras on.

Vemir [02:14:15]:
You saw pulp fiction, right? John Travolta goes out with. They get milkshake and it's a little tense, but he's super respectful because he respects his boss.

Eldar [02:14:24]:
Yeah, but he was going to do her if she didn't overdose. I don't know. Isn't he a hitman? I don't know this movie. So you know this movie? Very good movie.

Katherine [02:14:33]:
Oh, my.

Eldar [02:14:35]:
It's with Tarantino. Movie, unbreakable guy, Samuel Jackson. Samuel Jackson. Yes. It's good.

Vemir [02:14:45]:
I don't know. You don't have to accept it, but my life exists very healthily with female friends.

Eldar [02:14:51]:
Now, listen, we want to learn. You know what? No. If it works for you, more power to you.

Vemir [02:14:58]:
Thank you.

Phillip [02:14:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:14:59]:
If it works for you, more power to you. If you're happy. Shit, let it work.

Phillip [02:15:03]:
You know what I mean?

Vemir [02:15:04]:
There is one thing that I've mentioned.

Eldar [02:15:06]:
Before that's eating the thing. Drop it.

Vemir [02:15:10]:
There is one thing, though, because I.

Eldar [02:15:12]:
Have two girlies now, and one has eight nippies.

Vemir [02:15:17]:
Nice.

Eldar [02:15:17]:
Nine nippies. Nine nippies. That's okay, yo.

Vemir [02:15:23]:
So sometimes, because of my. I remember I had a girlfriend who. She was crying once, and she said, vamir, I know it's who you are, but can you stop flirting with everybody? And it's like, this is my personality confusion. No, it's confusing for her, but not for me. I had to explain. No, it's not. It's who I am. I'm an outgoing person.

Vemir [02:15:46]:
You can say nice attributes that other people. I don't want to say it, but it's like, sometimes I notice when I meet a guy and a girl, like friends of friends, the guy gets more territorial around me than other guys. They're threatened because you're trying to figure out. But I'm not. I'm just having a conversation. They think I'm trying to fuck because.

Eldar [02:16:06]:
They'Re programmed that you can ability to listen. And anybody who has the actual ability to slow down enough to listen to a woman, especially if she's not getting that from her own man, probably. Duh. You know what I'm saying? Most relationships, perhaps even most likely, most.

Phillip [02:16:20]:
Likely most of my friendships that I thought were girls, came as a result of me being the guy that listened. And I had pointed out to me that, Philip, you are listening and you are paying attention to them.

Eldar [02:16:31]:
So, yes, they do want to talk to you.

Phillip [02:16:33]:
And then when it came time to be romantic, some of them didn't want to. And I was like, yo, why did that. Why is that be a thing? And it's because I presented myself a certain way. And that when I did that, it put me into a certain type of box because I was not being true. I was just listening because deep down, I did want something more from them.

Vemir [02:16:56]:
That's on you.

Eldar [02:16:56]:
Yeah.

Phillip [02:16:57]:
I was not being honest, especially if.

Eldar [02:16:58]:
You'Re a good listener. Plus, you can talk. You can talk really well, and you can give real good advice. So therefore, those dudes you are fucking threat.

Vemir [02:17:09]:
It's true. In my heart, I would never do that. I'm so loyal.

Eldar [02:17:14]:
Yeah.

Vemir [02:17:14]:
And I have a really hard story to tell about, like, someone close to me, their girl tried to make a move and then lied and said I would. You know what I mean? And then I suffered a year and a half of that relationship, and then it came out that she was likely cheating. So I was fucking right at the end, and I stand that ground for a year and a half of everybody thinking that I was another way. So I'm used to it, fellas. I don't care. I am in your apartment.

Eldar [02:17:43]:
What?

Phillip [02:17:44]:
Did you lock her up in your apartment for bad behavior?

Eldar [02:17:46]:
No.

Vemir [02:17:47]:
It really upsets me when people think I have ulterior motives, because I don't, and they're not used to it.

Eldar [02:17:53]:
I used to work as a counsel with people and women especially, right. When they pour their heart out to you and stuff like that about their problems and stuff, they naturally start gravitating to an individual who understands and listens.

Vemir [02:18:07]:
I'm not naive to that.

Eldar [02:18:08]:
Yeah. And obviously there's ethics behind that, and that's what you're talking. I'm just not sure if I would as a professional at that time. I'm not sure if I can cross the boundary of being a professional to a friend, let alone a fucking.

Vemir [02:18:23]:
That's different.

Eldar [02:18:24]:
A lover.

Vemir [02:18:24]:
Therapy is, like, very tenuous.

Eldar [02:18:26]:
Yeah, you got to be very careful there. You know what I'm saying? To them? It's a very natural process of, like, okay, the next thing is like, yo, invite you to the barbecue and all this other fucking crap. But it's fucking dangerous. As dangerous because those individuals are not thinking as far as you might be thinking, as a philosopher. Okay.

Vemir [02:18:45]:
Thank you. But my friend's wife, one time, we went for a walk, she started crying. She said, I don't know what to do. He's not listening.

Eldar [02:18:52]:
All this stuff.

Vemir [02:18:54]:
I talked her through this stuff, and she was very thankful. And we were, like, working out. My boy was at work, and that's the end of the story. Nothing happened. And she was very thankful that I could talk to her, and I could, because I know him intimately. We talked it through, and maybe his family members, who are women, will come to me and talk about they're concerned about him or something else. Like, would I ever touch someone's wife? Are you kidding me? Sometimes I've had sex and I found out later that they were married and they didn't tell me. That upsets me, stuff like that.

Eldar [02:19:31]:
No, that's not on me.

Vemir [02:19:33]:
I'm saying that boundary exists across my whole spectrum. I don't like this disrespect. If you are committed or not committed. Make a decision. So it's like, can I talk to my friend's wife? Respectfully all the way. You put us in a prison cell for ten years, I won't have sex with her. Well, okay, if they're married ten years. I'm just saying good at what you do.

Vemir [02:19:56]:
I have my lines, and when people think I don't, it's an insult to my character.

Eldar [02:20:01]:
Yeah.

Phillip [02:20:02]:
Again, but if you remove that guy in that scenario, it's different situation. Why are you. To me, it's identifying where the relationship starts. Also, if it is a result of a friend and then it's their wife.

Eldar [02:20:14]:
Yeah.

Phillip [02:20:14]:
I think that's normal. If we're talking about a cousin and family member.

Eldar [02:20:17]:
Yeah.

Phillip [02:20:18]:
There can be a lot of women in your life that you have access to that you can build nice relationships.

Vemir [02:20:24]:
To, including single women.

Phillip [02:20:26]:
Yeah. See that to me, sorry. It exists. Yeah, but it exists in a world that is delusional.

Eldar [02:20:37]:
Yeah.

Phillip [02:20:37]:
Then to me, exactly to that question, if you said you're not looking, then I think that it can exist in that world where both people are maybe not open to love and you're both maybe in a state where you maybe would be talking to a counselor, maybe you're more of a therapy blanket to them where they feel comfortable talking to you. And it's something where you're both maybe working on yourself, but maybe you're not open to a relationship. I think if you're genuinely open to love in a relationship, I do not see in what world that it would work, where I would have to be getting to the point where I would be attracted to that person. And the natural spillover would be, I want to be physical with them because it's just our nature. So I would have to be limiting myself to that relationship if I genuinely wanted to be in it. The only way I can think would be, again, I'm talking to them, I feel comfortable and I'm not looking for a relationship. Yeah, I guess you can call that a friendship, but I don't know really what you define that as.

Vemir [02:21:36]:
Because just because you have a feeling, you shouldn't always act on it. That would be what an animal does.

Phillip [02:21:43]:
Yeah, but if you have an attractiveness to somebody, there is going to be a genuine curiosity to get to the next thing. So if you do not get to that next thing, it's always going to be a possibility. And then what?

Vemir [02:21:56]:
If you're attracted to your friend's wife, you have a boundary.

Phillip [02:22:00]:
If you're attracted to your.

Vemir [02:22:01]:
You're not going to explore that.

Eldar [02:22:03]:
Yeah, but you're not friends with her.

Phillip [02:22:04]:
But are you genuinely looking to become friends with.

Eldar [02:22:07]:
Yeah.

Phillip [02:22:07]:
Are you genuinely friends with.

Eldar [02:22:08]:
Then there's like, yo, what's happening here? Yeah. I mean, then obviously cheating happens, but, yeah.

Vemir [02:22:14]:
Nice. I feel like you can explore very deeply a friendship with a woman. And I'll say it again, and it exists. If you feel like it's impossible, that's because your proclivities. What is the way they are?

Eldar [02:22:28]:
What are those?

Vemir [02:22:29]:
Your proclivities, like, very sexually attracted to them. And you can't control it so much that it's all you think about when you're with them and you're just hoping for a.

Phillip [02:22:37]:
To me, it's a natural spillover.

Vemir [02:22:39]:
It's a natural spillover in your behavior. It doesn't mean it has to be actionable.

Eldar [02:22:44]:
Animal, bro. You can't control.

Phillip [02:22:45]:
Yeah, you're an animal, Phil. Yeah, maybe I can't see it. I don't know in what world that.

Vemir [02:22:52]:
Professional partners. You're an actor in a movie. You're a female actress.

Phillip [02:22:59]:
That's a business.

Eldar [02:23:00]:
That wasn't going there.

Vemir [02:23:01]:
Female actress in another movie. She just won an Oscar. You're both married. You can get lunch and discuss her prowess, what she learned.

Eldar [02:23:09]:
Yeah, but that's not friendships.

Phillip [02:23:10]:
That's not friendship.

Vemir [02:23:11]:
Friends over years and years, you haven't become friends with your professional colleagues.

Phillip [02:23:15]:
That's way different. That's a not way different.

Vemir [02:23:20]:
I have friends who. I admire the work that.

Eldar [02:23:22]:
I don't understand what that means.

Phillip [02:23:23]:
That's a professional dynamic.

Vemir [02:23:25]:
That's like saying classmates can never be friends because that's a school system setting. It's ridiculous.

Eldar [02:23:31]:
We have to define friendship. That's the next topic. Why?

Vemir [02:23:35]:
I don't understand. I'm friends with people who are my dad's friends. I'm friends. We hang out, just the two of us, me and my dad's friends. He hangs out with my friends who are older. Just the two of them.

Eldar [02:23:46]:
We have to define what it is.

Vemir [02:23:47]:
What's the problem? It's like your boundaries are there, but they're not real.

Eldar [02:23:56]:
Listen, like I said, if it makes you happy and you're doing it and it's more power to you, then I can't knock it.

Vemir [02:24:02]:
Maybe my frustration is that you think it's unthinkable, but that's.

Eldar [02:24:07]:
That doesn't make me think that it's. My challenge to you is only like, look, if you're not in a relationship, if you're looking for love and these girls are attractive. What's going on?

Vemir [02:24:16]:
My thing is you're connecting about life and perspective and having nice hiking experience or whatever else, man. Like, you're all having lunch together. You and mixed genders.

Eldar [02:24:26]:
Last time I had that, I fell in love, and I'm 14 years in.

Vemir [02:24:29]:
I'm saying that can happen. I've gotten into a relationship with a friend before, but it doesn't always have to be like that. Anyway.

Eldar [02:24:37]:
Sorry.

Vemir [02:24:37]:
It's not that.

Eldar [02:24:38]:
You operating on a different level than us.

Vemir [02:24:41]:
Well, I went through all the stages of being a friend with a girl so I could fuck her and not feeling genuine. I went through all that. I'm not saying I started that way. I just learned that there's more value in opening the lens rather than thinking it's this, that, or the other thing. My friend who thinks there can be no female friends, I would love to have. He has a bad relationship with his female family, and he does not treat women the way that I would treat them. He doesn't have the perspective about women. He thinks that they're not capable of friendship with guys because men are always better at other things.

Vemir [02:25:15]:
I don't agree with Michelle anyway.

Eldar [02:25:18]:
I thought Brian was also similar. No, but Brian was straight into sexual relations.

Phillip [02:25:23]:
Brian was sexual?

Eldar [02:25:24]:
No, but he was saying, like, I'm not a relationship. I'm friends with them, too. Remember he was saying, no, he had sex with them.

Vemir [02:25:29]:
You felt like he was lying.

Eldar [02:25:31]:
Right.

Vemir [02:25:31]:
Did you feel like he was lying when he said it?

Eldar [02:25:34]:
No, but he was okay with open relationship completely. Where.

Phillip [02:25:37]:
Yeah, he had a different having sex.

Eldar [02:25:38]:
No, he was not having sex with all them. He said some of them. Some of them listening, like he's saying too.

Vemir [02:25:44]:
He was sneaking in, talking, like, having fun together, doing.

Phillip [02:25:50]:
Yeah, he did say. He did say some of them were just an emotional support.

Eldar [02:25:53]:
Yes.

Vemir [02:25:54]:
It's not just emotional support. Yeah, it's a huge part of it.

Eldar [02:25:56]:
But he would side with Lamir. Interesting.

Phillip [02:25:59]:
Oh, he would?

Eldar [02:25:59]:
Yeah. Is there a groupon for these things or no groupon?

Vemir [02:26:03]:
Like, I'm trying to show my boys that it's possible. They think it's possible.

Eldar [02:26:08]:
And have you have succeeded. You're having a hard time.

Vemir [02:26:13]:
I am having a hard time. I get frustrated because they say things that are clearly wrong. Very confident.

Eldar [02:26:17]:
Are we saying the same things that they're saying?

Vemir [02:26:19]:
Yes, the pushback is similar. Not as bad, though.

Eldar [02:26:22]:
Not as other friends.

Phillip [02:26:23]:
The pushback from who?

Vemir [02:26:25]:
Pushback from you guys. That it's unthinkable.

Phillip [02:26:26]:
No, but the pushback other guy friends.

Vemir [02:26:28]:
Yeah, but they don't have friends who are girls.

Eldar [02:26:32]:
Yeah.

Vemir [02:26:32]:
So they don't have no idea what it's like because they're always trying to fuck. Somehow it's a little bit arid. You know how a desert is dry, their cup is not full there. I also in junction with being able to date gorgeous women and all this stuff at the same time, I learned how to become friends. Like, I was unsatisfied before. Maybe I was in a scarcity mindset. So any girl, you know what I mean? But now it's like I can pick and choose. I'm not actively pursuing.

Eldar [02:27:02]:
He did statistics on it.

Vemir [02:27:03]:
I'm not actively pursuing women, especially right now. I'm just kind of like focused on my stuff. So it's not like a huge need, priority, hunger to fuck. So now I can genuinely sit there and be an ear. Not an ear, be like a friend and have a good experience. It's like, fuck, man. Can some things escalate? Of course. And they have.

Vemir [02:27:25]:
Do they have to give us a.

Eldar [02:27:27]:
Percentage of the times that it escalated?

Vemir [02:27:30]:
Twice out of three times out of how many girl friends have I had?

Eldar [02:27:37]:
But those usually stay, right? Friends usually stay for a long period of the ones that stick around.

Vemir [02:27:44]:
Okay, one girl, we've been friends.

Eldar [02:27:45]:
We've been friends with Mike for a very long time.

Vemir [02:27:47]:
Okay, so one girl, we're friends like eight years now.

Eldar [02:27:51]:
Yeah, that's a good.

Vemir [02:27:52]:
She's.

Eldar [02:27:53]:
You never puppet her. Yeah.

Vemir [02:27:54]:
I'll tell you the story.

Eldar [02:27:55]:
Okay.

Vemir [02:27:56]:
So she and I have been friends in the mutual groups. I was dating somebody else when we were friends. It kind of like grew in that group, actually. So I was dating this one girl, and the other girl was my friend. We all went hiking, did fun shit, climbing together. And my relationship, we broke up. And then later her relationship.

Eldar [02:28:15]:
They're not wearing tight pants while you're hiking, and he's not at the bottom of the mountain.

Vemir [02:28:19]:
Every time by chance.

Eldar [02:28:20]:
You're not at the bottom, you're leading the pack. I want to double check. What the fuck you want to make sure you have an animal. I'm an animal, correct. Yeah. I got my wife every day.

Phillip [02:28:30]:
All the ducks in the sunrise, twice, 100%.

Vemir [02:28:35]:
All the ducks were in a row. But let me just finish this. So she had been dating my other friend in that same group for like five years, whatever else. And they broke up. And we were just like, catching up. And then we came back, we had tea, we watched a movie, we had sex one night. It's great.

Eldar [02:28:54]:
You understand what's happening here.

Vemir [02:28:55]:
We had sex twice. It was great. And that one night, it was really excellent.

Eldar [02:29:00]:
And you're still friends then?

Vemir [02:29:01]:
We all went out to the club a few times, and she felt like advancing towards. And I was like, no, I just felt like it was. And I didn't really want to keep pursuing it. Why not? After that, we were still friends. And now she's engaged.

Eldar [02:29:16]:
It was great sex. What happened? There's a multiple things.

Vemir [02:29:22]:
It can still be healthy if you had sex once. That's one example. There's women who were very attractive. I never had sex with. There's women I was friends with who had escalated into a relationship. That's all kinds of things.

Eldar [02:29:33]:
He did the math, although he ran the numbers. He get more rejection when you're trying to get a relationship, but you do the friend thing, there's a higher chance of you pop up in it.

Vemir [02:29:43]:
No. Sometimes I'm outside dating, and then I hang out with my female friend. We talk about our dating life, we go our separate ways.

Eldar [02:29:49]:
That's a crazy theory.

Vemir [02:29:52]:
It's not crazy.

Eldar [02:29:53]:
That's a crazy. It's not crazy. He said you were just dead.

Vemir [02:29:55]:
No, I was that tactical before.

Eldar [02:29:57]:
Tactical simp. You're saying, bro, I've never met any.

Vemir [02:30:00]:
Of these, but that's like the long game. Sometimes you think, oh, maybe I'll stick around.

Eldar [02:30:04]:
How long ago into your nine year friendship did you have sex with her?

Vemir [02:30:07]:
Six years.

Eldar [02:30:08]:
So six years. Wow. You fucking good, bro.

Vemir [02:30:10]:
I was in a relationship for four of those. Four and a half.

Eldar [02:30:13]:
Two years of friendship.

Vemir [02:30:15]:
And you get not two years of friendship, son.

Eldar [02:30:17]:
No, but two years.

Vemir [02:30:18]:
You're trying to find a crack, bro.

Eldar [02:30:21]:
That's good.

Vemir [02:30:23]:
I didn't do that.

Eldar [02:30:24]:
You said you're not patient, bro. You're mad patient.

Vemir [02:30:26]:
Yeah, that's funny.

Eldar [02:30:29]:
You have to admire that kind of shit. Yeah, I like it. That's a lot of legwork, but he ran the numbers, bro.

Vemir [02:30:35]:
Wait, I mean, you think that there's girls that I'm friendly with that I still want to fuck? Yeah, that exists, too, if you want.

Eldar [02:30:43]:
To use his terminology. Waiting. Why are you sitting duck? He doesn't want to show his cards yet.

Vemir [02:30:50]:
It's not like this. Okay, here's something. No, wait. This is important.

Eldar [02:30:57]:
There is a bar, and it's only creeping right towards the end.

Vemir [02:30:59]:
I realized something in my last relationship. This is someone who was a friend escalated to relationship. Yeah, we had sex. It was unbelievably good. We had a lot of sex, and I realized each moment was really nice. In our day, we cooked together, we enjoyed our time together. It wasn't just about the sex.

Eldar [02:31:18]:
Okay.

Vemir [02:31:18]:
So that actually I translated into I can enjoy moments. Of course, not just that, but that was a factor of me thinking, like, oh, I can enjoy the company of a woman. You can even say there's mutual attraction. But it doesn't have to escalate to sex for it to be a quality engagement.

Eldar [02:31:36]:
Why would you judge?

Vemir [02:31:37]:
In some cases, yes, it's not bad, but in some cases, it's not necessary. And in some cases, as you know, it might tarnish that friendship. If you escalate it, that'll complicate it. You don't want that. You don't want to lose that person just because you had sex at one time. That's also a factor. Because sex is a very deep thing.

Phillip [02:31:57]:
Like a weird reality show where some of them, you're not going to do that with. Because you want to have the intellectual relationship where like, okay, maybe there's not a possibility now, but I remember that when you do this, you are getting in with the nice card. It's very easy to get with the nice.

Eldar [02:32:20]:
Real estate campaign. He has a lot of branches out.

Vemir [02:32:25]:
I'm on the chopping blog, baby.

Eldar [02:32:27]:
I like it. They hatch at different times. Yeah.

Vemir [02:32:29]:
Not all of them are chickens. Not all of them are chickens.

Katherine [02:32:33]:
He just said not all of them.

Eldar [02:32:34]:
Are chickens, but they all hatch at different times. That's good. That's why you have to have ongoing stabilization. Sorry, Mike, were you going to go down this route if you weren't going to solve this shit? No. You're pretty creative with this kind of stuff, but I don't know, this strategy is wild nonetheless. You respect it, right? I respect the fuck out of it. That's why I invited him on Sunday, bro. Yes.

Vemir [02:32:57]:
Oh, yeah. I'm also a good wingman, though, because I can get friendly with the girls and help them.

Eldar [02:33:01]:
Yeah, for sure. Get the friendly. I'm going to be just the dog, the animal that I am.

Vemir [02:33:08]:
Yeah, but I only do that with women that I don't want to have sex with. I'll set you up. You can't have what you think.

Eldar [02:33:17]:
She's waiting on the hatch.

Vemir [02:33:18]:
You can't have her if I want her. No, I'm just kidding.

Eldar [02:33:21]:
Of course. Anyway, I know, Mike, you're a good sport. Yeah, you're a good sport, Mike.

Vemir [02:33:27]:
Not a game. It's not a.

Eldar [02:33:30]:
Fine, fine. Listen. Not a game. We're going to say this on the record. We're not onto you here.

Vemir [02:33:34]:
What do you mean?

Eldar [02:33:35]:
We're not on gig?

Vemir [02:33:37]:
No, you mean you're not subscribing.

Eldar [02:33:39]:
We're not onto your game. We're not onto your game. We have no idea what's going on. Yeah, we don't know. Wow.

Vemir [02:33:44]:
This is great. You have a new perspective. Like the drowning child.

Phillip [02:33:49]:
He'S hunting, but with a gun that shoots like a marshmallow of love. Like a care bear.

Eldar [02:33:56]:
Sometimes it hits. Yeah.

Phillip [02:33:58]:
Like a heart comes out. Nice.

Vemir [02:34:03]:
Can we switch gears? I want to talk about time.

Eldar [02:34:05]:
What we can do. We finish this. You said she loves you, bro. Yay, Uncle Vermeer. Uncle Vamir.

Katherine [02:34:22]:
She has the ball.

Eldar [02:34:23]:
She has the ball. Yeah. She's like.

Vemir [02:34:25]:
I don't know what she wants.

Eldar [02:34:27]:
No, she just wants to kiss it. But come here. Pen went some love. Wow. Very loving dog. Yeah. Don't. Don't hump.

Eldar [02:34:42]:
Hump me. Me.

Vemir [02:34:42]:
Don't hump me.

Eldar [02:34:43]:
No, she's not humping.

Katherine [02:34:44]:
No, she's not going to.

Eldar [02:34:45]:
She wants to rub her sensitive area friends. Don't hump. Don't worry, she's straightforward with her feelings.

Katherine [02:34:56]:
Easy, Penny.

Eldar [02:34:56]:
This one is easy to get. Samir, you had a hard time.