381. It Is Finished With Charles Martin

Ever contemplated the weight of Christ's final words, "It is finished"? Discover the profound impact of these words as I sit down with bestselling author Charles Martin to unravel the layers of meaning behind Jesus' last moments and the transformational journey they beckon us to undertake. Charles, not only a gifted storyteller but also a beekeeping enthusiast, shares the parallels between the marvels of God's creation and the intricate process of writing, guiding us through his partnership with Pastor Joby and their collaborative book that offers a pathway to spiritual pilgrimage.

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https://thelionwithin.us/podcast/381-it-is-finished-with-charles-martin/

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Transcript

Chris Grainger: 1:46

Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I'm your host, chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, guys, it is meat episode time. I'm excited to get with you this week. We're going to dig right into it, okay, but we're going to go straight, as we do every episode, to the Word of God. So we're in the book of John. Book of John this week, chapter 19, verse 30. It says, when he had received the drink, jesus said it is finished With that. He bowed his head and gave up his spirit. So, guys, go back, check out the spiritual kickoff, unpack this verse at length. And this verse we pulled out in particular because the guest today has a really powerful message.

Chris Grainger: 2:31

And his name is Charles Martin. He's a New York Times and USA Today bestselling author. He's got, I think he said, close to 28 books. Now he's out of Florida. I actually got connected with Charles through 1122. He was the writer for Pastor Joby's books and we talked about that. We talked about him, his process of working with Pastor Joby, what does that look like? And recently he put out a book that got a lot of attention with 1122, for good reason and it's called, it Is Finished and it's a 40-day pilgrimage back to the cross. And this book, guys, it's just full disclosure. It's phenomenal. I mean, it's chock full of truth, of insight, of wisdom just regarding everything that Christ did on the cross for us. And so, charles, I was able to connect with him. Come on in today.

Chris Grainger: 3:31

We spent a lot of time just talking about some of the process and some of how that works and his personal journey, but he also shared some things regarding his personal journey of discipleship and discipling others, and that was very insightful, guys. So for you guys who are trying to connect and figure out ways to lead groups or to just be that leader, god's called you to be right. He gave some, really some insights. I think that's insights, that's probably the right word. But also he just pulled back the covers and full transparency to show you I mean, you can look at guys like Charles Martin obviously, new York Times bestseller, us Today bestseller, people all over the world buys books and things like that and you can think you know what guys like. Of course, it's easy for guys like that. No, it's always a struggle, it's always going to be resistance, and he just shares a lot of just, salient truths that hopefully will resonate with you, that you'll enjoy and that will encourage you. So enjoy this conversation with Charles Martin.

Chris Grainger: 4:39

So, charles Martin, welcome to the Lion Within Us. How are you doing today?

Charles Martin: 4:42

I'm great. Thanks so much for having me on your show 100%, man, I'm so excited to have you here.

Chris Grainger: 4:48

I mean absolutely loved the book. I loved your message. By the way, I had to listen to it a couple times to get ready for this, so we'll unpack that as well. But, man, before we get into all that, tell us something fun about you, maybe something that not many people know about.

Charles Martin: 5:02

Well, you know we were talking before you clicked record and, um, one of the things that's been fun for christy and I in the last, well, the last two years, is we bought this little farm and, um, she's gotten into bees and I love it, I'm, I'm, I'm all for it, and at first it kind of freaked me out because when I was a kid I was really allergic to anything that stung you.

Charles Martin: 5:23

Yeah and my folks had to carry the epi pen and all that. But as I've gotten older that doesn't seem to be a problem. So now I've gotten to where I'll get in there and help her and pull the lid off and you know, we'll do kind of all kinds of stuff, but watching bees work has got to be one of the more amazing things I've ever seen. I mean, I don't know how you can't look at that and say, there, only God can do this.

Charles Martin: 5:52

There's no there's no, I can't come up with any other explanation. It's just too perfect, it's too amazing, it's too you know, whatever. So anyway, that's fun for us. That's kind of been a fun thing. We're now empty nesters and I have no idea if we'll ever actually get any honey. I hope that we do, but right now we're just sort of having baby bees and I think currently we have about 45 or 50,000 bees. Christy has three hives. And so we're trying to figure that out, but it's a lot of fun.

Chris Grainger: 6:24

It sounds like a lot of fun. For sure, that's a goal for us. We want to have some hives on our farm as well. We're not there yet, but my wife, I see books laying around about bees and stuff, so I know it's coming.

Charles Martin: 6:36

Hey, that's how it starts. I'm telling you.

Chris Grainger: 6:41

Yeah, she had a duck book a while back and now guess what? It's on the farm. We have ducks now. So it's just, I always go by her literature to know what's coming on my future radar. So that's how it works Well. I'm so excited to have you here, charles, and I mean I heard you found out about you obviously from Pastor Joby, the books that you wrote with him and you know he's been on the show a few times, britt's been on the show. Just love everything that's going on there in Jacksonville.

Charles Martin: 7:13

And how did you get connected with Joby? How long have you guys been friends? We've been friends um six or eight years. Our friendship really struck up in Israel, um, about 10 years ago our oldest son, charlie, was in a youth group at our church. We were previously at a different church, but Charlie started going to this youth group at this church called 1122. And I never really understood the name and even to this day nobody really understands the name, but we. I mean it's just, it's not, it's not the best church name, but it does work Right.

Charles Martin: 7:38

And uh, he, he would come back from from youth group and say, dad, this guy talks like us. And not only that, but they got deer heads in the bathrooms. So you know they weren't anti-hunter, and uh. So Christie and I ended up going one Sunday morning and Joby preached and um man, I just remember sitting there, we she and I had been so hungry to hear someone preach the word with courage and in faith and somebody who actually believed what it says. Yep, and I, just I just fell in love with that brother. I just did, I just I even then I just thank god for him because he just he has a magnificent faith, but it's a simple faith. It's the kind of faith that says, because it says, says that I believe it.

Charles Martin: 8:26

Yeah, and and then about a year later, we went with our church to Israel.

Charles Martin: 8:32

That was my second trip to Israel I've now been six times. Wow, and he and I he was leading the trip and you know, we just you know you've got 10 days on a bus and traveling around all that sort of stuff and we just struck up a conversation and he had been, he had been approached by a lot of people to start thinking about writing a book, but the time was not. He did not feel like the time was right for him, and so he just, you know, we just got to know one another and, uh, then over the years we would bow on a little bit together and, um, then a couple of years ago, he began feeling like the time was right for him to write his first book. And he really hit me up saying, hey, would you ever? Would you ever think about this? And, uh, and honestly, I didn't think I could do it, cause I've, you know, I've written at the time. I've written 20, 21 books and I kind of have my own voice.

Chris Grainger: 9:27

You had your process and all that.

Charles Martin: 9:29

Not to mention my process, but just I didn't know that if I could write in someone else's voice. So I kind of hemmed and hawed for about six months. And then we live in the same neighborhood and we were all kind of at somebody's house one day having a pool party during the summer and he, he said, hey, what do you, what do you think? And I said, well, let me really ask the Lord. And when I got with, the Lord kind of got quiet. It was pretty clear he wanted me to, and so we sat down and started working. And from the moment we started working the Lord turned on a switch in me and I could just write in Job's voice. I never stumbled, I never even had to work at it. It was just like a thing. The Holy spirit just did this thing in me and I I was like, okay, I can do this. It's really sweet thing the Lord did so.

Charles Martin: 10:13

He and I have now written three books together. We were making plans to write number four, which we will write this fall. I'm so grateful the Lord, let me do it. Um, it's been a neat thing in my career to be able to work with someone else to serve someone else and their kingdom, you know, to be able to have a what I feel like is a gift the Lord has given me and been able to use it in his kingdom in a way that I had not thought. I just love and I love. We've gotten crazy stories of people who've written us from. You know, primarily they write him. I'm not taking credit for his content, but occasionally they will include me.

Chris Grainger: 10:52

Yeah.

Charles Martin: 10:54

And it's been amazing you know people literally on death row that somehow the book got to them, surrendered their lives to the lordship of jesus through these things called words that the lord allowed us to put together. That brought him glory, and do bring him glory and bring people to his throne, and so he and I are just blown away with that. Um, it's a sweet thing it sure is.

Chris Grainger: 11:22

I mean, I definitely know about. You know, if the tomb is empty, anything is possible. The third one was what? The grace train or something like that. That's coming. That's not out yet, though, right, no, it's coming out.

Charles Martin: 11:33

This fall it's called Run Over by the Grace Train, and it's what I think is an accurate and right look at grace. The writer of Hebrews says Come boldly, therefore, before this, his throne of grace, so that we might receive mercy and find grace to help us on our time of need. And John says that grace and truth are poured out on the lips of Jesus and from him we have received grace upon grace. So Jobi and I got into this and started unpacking it and really began looking at what is the grace of God. What does the grace poured out on the lips of Jesus really look like? And it's not cheap grace. It's the kind that is priceless because it cost him everything to offer, and I love it, I love the book.

Charles Martin: 12:22

I love what Jobi says and how he says it and maybe how, in some small way, I've contributed to that. I'm not trying to take credit for any of it, but you know I mean the Lord did, did include me in that process to try and help. You know, put the, put the, put the pieces together in some way, and so I'm excited about it. It's good, it's good stuff.

Chris Grainger: 12:43

A hundred percent. I can't wait. I definitely can't wait to read that one. I mean, the first two books I've just blown away. We even did the uh me and my discipleship group did this the bible study that I guess you wrote were you part of that part process as well as a study guide that comes along with it, because that was really great too.

Charles Martin: 13:00

I did not interestingly, on the study guide. Um, I told Joby, I said, dude, I love you, but I don't know anything about writing a study guide. He said me either. And our publisher found somebody who does this for a living, oh, and we said, hey, well, let's just let them give it a try. And this guy wrote the study guide and Joby and I get it back and I wish he could have been a fly on the wall in the room Because we're reading through it, reading the questions, going man, that's good. I don't even know if I can answer that. So we would read these questions and kind of like man, that's good. Whoever this guy is, you need to let him keep writing these things because it's good. So, anyway, no, I did not have anything to do with that.

Chris Grainger: 13:43

That's pretty interesting because I tell you what those questions it took us. And it's not a big study guide, it's a relatively small book.

Charles Martin: 13:50

Right.

Chris Grainger: 13:50

I bet it took us six months to get through it, because I mean we're just meeting every other Saturday. But it was like wow, some of those questions we could camp out the whole time on.

Chris Grainger: 14:00

Yeah so yeah, but just love it, love it, love it. Well, I mean, let's get into your book. I mean, let's get into your book. I mean you had this one that just came out. It is finished. That 40-day pilgrimage back to the cross. I thought it was phenomenal. I mean, what kind of led you to wanting to take this 40-day route?

Charles Martin: 14:20

All right, let me back up just briefly and take you on a little bit of a pilgrimage with me. I've been to Israel six times and it's one of my loves. I love the people, I love the place, I love walking on the Temple Mount, where God has placed his name forever, and I do I pray for the peace of Jerusalem all the time, and I mean the peace of everybody there. I mean I just I love it. I really love the food, yeah, but on my third trip there, they had just excavated an area down along the Western Wall, and the Western Wall we today call the Wailing Wall. It's the area of the wall that would be closest to where the Holy of Holies would have been during the time of Jesus, so that today the Orthodox Jews primarily although almost all Jews will pray there and they'll tuck the prayers in the stones and we Gentiles get to go there as well. And, uh, on my first or second trip, I had a, what I believe a real powerful experience with the Lord just standing there, praying, and I remember there I was standing there and I just sort of put my hand on the, on the stones, and these stones are bigger than a Buick, I mean they're huge. And I know the moment my hand hit that stone. I heard the whisper from Scripture when Jesus says, when the Pharisees tell all those people to be quiet, he says I cannot, because even if I did, these stones would cry out. I just remember feeling like this is the place where my king ransomed all of mankind. So this thing began bubbling up in me. So on our third trip we're there.

Charles Martin: 15:51

They just excavated this area down below that portion of the Western Wall, so it's about 30 feet below, and what they had uncovered was a Herodian road. And the reason this is important is because Herod, who was cray-cray and killed pretty much everybody in his family, was also an incredible builder and he had massive vision. But when he got to Jerusalem some 30 years before Jesus because it took 46 years to build this temple yeah, he basically sawed off the top of Mount Moriah to form a flat platform, then built this platform and then built his temple and along the side of it and around the city he would build his roads. And his roads were part of his signature because the stones were massive and they each one contained this border around the sides. That let you know you were walking on something that Herod had built, okay, well, when they excavated down below and they hit this polished stone with this border, they know they're on a Herodian road. They also know that it's as far down as you can get. There's no more excavation below that really that we know of, because below that is the rock of Mount Moriah, which is also happens to be the rock where Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac. So they hit this road and they know, okay, this is from the time of Jesus. And then they began tracing the road and it and it wound underground.

Charles Martin: 17:23

And today you can take it much further and basically it came to an end point at the base of the steps that lead up to Caiaphas's house, the house of the high priest, the northernmost end, that's the southern end, the northernmost end they felt like, ended in what looked like a soldier's garrison, or what we would call pilots praetorium, and the reason for that is because they found in the stones on the northern end.

Charles Martin: 17:55

They found a hole in the stones.

Charles Martin: 17:57

It's 12 to 14 inches in diameter, totally circular, and then it's deep and I don't know, maybe it's 18 inches deep.

Charles Martin: 18:05

Connected to that hole, there is a groove carved in the stone, a blood groove, because the soldiers would wedge a post in that hole and they would lash a prisoner to the post and there they would flog him, and the groove was meant to catch all the stuff flying out of the person lodged to the last of the pole, and that groove wound its way over to what we understand to be where a gutter would have been, and over there on the in the stone carved into the stone is something that looks like a tic-tac-toe board with about 10 vertical and 10 horizontal lines, and we know from Roman record that this is a. It's called the King's game. It was a gambling game where soldiers would gamble with dice for the belongings of the dude last to the post. So when you put all those things together, I can't tell you for certain that that is where the son of god was made unrecognizable as a man as as Isaiah says but it's highly possible.

Charles Martin: 19:10

And I remember on my third trip we get down there and I'm standing over this hole and the Lord did a thing in me. Like I'm 54. I've known him a long time. That doesn't mean I've always followed him obediently, but at least I know better and I certainly know the stories Right. I remember looking at that hole and the Lord did a thing in me where he took what I knew up here and he migrated it down to my heart. And if you're not looking at me and you're listening, I'm just tapping my head to my heart and this realization hit me and I even think I said it out loud. This really happened.

Charles Martin: 19:50

The king of the universe, seated at the right hand of God, for reasons I will never understand, because he loves us with a love which is inconceivable takes off his crown, gives his ring back to his dad, sets his diadem in the corner, takes off his kingly and priestly robes, dresses himself down to a loincloth or undresses to a loincloth, and takes a swan dive out of heaven to end up here in a gooey mess where he spends 30 years in private family life.

Charles Martin: 20:27

Finally, one day he's walking by the river. His cousin, john, is baptizing. John points him out and says behold the Lamb of God who takes away, doesn't cover, but takes away the sin of the world. And from that moment the son is now identified and all of hell has one purpose, which is to assassinate the son. The father speaks and says this is my son. Jesus spends three years in public ministry preaching about the kingdom of heaven. He heals the sick, the lame, walk the blind, see and 60% of his miracles he casts out demons first, which is something never before seen, and then, on Passover weekend, the religious elite falsely accused and arrest him and marching before Herod and Pilate, and back and forth, and finally they lashed him to this post.

Charles Martin: 21:23

And I remember staring at that post, hearing the echo of Isaiah. In my mind he became unrecognizable as a man and it struck me I am not worth the exchange of the.

Chris Grainger: 21:36

Son of.

Charles Martin: 21:36

God, and it just crushed me and I remember I ended up on the stone and in the same way I just wanted to put my hand on the stone. I know it's been 2,000 years, but I just wanted to touch the stone and I began wondering. I even think I said it out loud to the Lord. Lord, I don't know how to tell this story, but I want to. And I felt like he whispered, not like you're hearing my voice, but more like an impression on my spirit. I felt like he whispered well, walk with me back to my cross and I'll tell it to you.

Charles Martin: 22:13

So I just began sitting down, working my way through the Gospels, primarily the Gospel of John. But I'm trying to tell the story in somewhat chronological manner, as best I can, sort of fit pieces together, and the Lord, the Lord, shared with me his story, as best I'm, as I'm able to understand it, and I'm I'm, so I'm trying to write it. I know that there's the admonition and revelation. It is not good for people who like, like me, who come along and add anything to this story. So I'm trying not to add anything to it, but I am trying to use scripture to interpret scripture, and anytime I step outside of scripture. I try to tell the reader hey, I don't know this for certain, but I think this might be a possibility. So I'm trying to tell his story in a way that he's given me permission to tell it, while being faithful to the text.

Charles Martin: 23:06

And the Lord did as. I sat in my chair and I'm pointing right over there because I ride in that chair with a lap desk as the Lord. As I did that, the Lord did two things with me. We know grace and truth are poured out on his lips. So the first thing he gave me was the truth, the truth of him and the truth of me. The truth of him is beautiful, the truth of me not so much. And he unpacked me and my need for him. And the truth is that when we walk back to his cross, the only thing we bring is the sin that causes us to need it in the first place.

Charles Martin: 23:38

That's all we bring. And he allowed me to see my sin. It's not pretty, and if you knew my thoughts you would agree with me. But he didn't just leave me there, as horrible and as ugly as that is, and I began to understand Romans 7, when Paul says, o wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from this body of death? I began to see that's me. But then he met me with this beautiful grace and the Lord showed me, just from his word, through his spirit, what the grace of Jesus poured out really looks like.

Charles Martin: 24:14

And so I tried as best I could. I'm not a tour guide, I'm not qualified to be a tour guide, but I am a fellow pilgrim, and Psalm 84 said blessed is the man whose heart is set on pilgrimage. So I thought, well, maybe I can lock arms with you, the reader, and maybe you and I could walk back through these events. And I may not be qualified to speak about some of them, but you can at least watch how they impact me. And you can watch me as my face hits the carpet and I raised my hands in worship before the King. So that was, you know, that was just what I tried to do. Yeah, in short, long answer short question.

Chris Grainger: 24:57

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Chris Grainger: 26:36

Charles, I'm just curious. I mean, as you mentioned one thing earlier in your answer, back was the head to the heart, and I find this is so difficult for lots of guys to make that connection. You know we want to have the head knowledge, but until we move the scripture to our heart, man, it's such a gap. So I'd love for you to touch on that. And also, just, you broke this 40-day pilgrimage down into four areas, four parts. Was that part of the revelation? Is that part for the storytelling? I'm just curious.

Charles Martin: 27:04

Let me answer the second question first, as we got into editing that four-part segmentation just sort of presented itself to us. It just sort of became apparent that we were sort of dealing with four separate things. And again I didn't sit down to do I'm not that good, honestly, I really I didn't. I'm not that good, I could not have intended that. So it was neat to see the way the Lord kind of put that together. Yeah, like me, you know, because it just.

Charles Martin: 27:33

it made perfect sense All right, you got to give the credit to the Holy Spirit there because I'm not that good. But on your first question, in terms of what I call this infinite migration from head to heart, I've been reminded several times of it's. In John six we really see that Jesus is separating the shaft from the wheat and he begins talking to his followers. I mean, if you're, if you're in charge of marketing for Jesus Inc. Things are going really well. He's got a massive following. The signs and wonders are following those who believe. He's healing people. The crowds are huge. Food shows up whenever they need it. The blind are seeing the lame are dancing, the possessed are having demons cast out. There's nothing he can't do. Rome doesn't stand a chance. They are looking at who they believe to be their next king.

Charles Martin: 28:34

Jesus has other ideas, and one of the things that he says is he picks up bread and wine, or he refers to it, rather, and he says unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no part in me. Sure, and he doesn't explain it. He never pauses to say hey, wait a minute. I'm not talking about you cannibalizing me. You're not going to take a bite out of my thigh Right. Later you're going to call this communion. You're going to eat bread and drink wine later. You're going to call this communion. You're going to eat bread and drink wine. You're going to remember me in my death. He never says that. He never stops to explain.

Charles Martin: 29:07

And in the most painful script scripture, in all of scripture which happens to be, in my opinion, john 6, 66, it says many of those who were following him stopped following him and followed him no more. They're standing three feet from the son of God and they turn their backs and walk away. And Jesus turns around to his best friends and he says do you want to go too? And Peter, god bless him says Lord, where would we go? You have the words of eternal life. And then he says this he says you have the words of eternal life, and then he says this. He says for we have believed and we have come to know that you are the son of God. Now I want you to look at the progression. Peter says we have believed and come to know.

Charles Martin: 29:55

So the process for them was belief followed by understanding. They believed, they believed first, then they came to understand. We, as people and as men, want to control that and we want to do it the reverse. We want to understand everything, we want to make sure we can control the outcome and then, if we're convinced enough, we'll dip our toe in the water and we will tell you we believe, because now we're in charge of the information. That is not the way God works, right.

Charles Martin: 30:23

So I am grateful that he did that with me and continues to do that with me. It's also one of the first steps of faith. I mean, faith is not an understanding thing. He asks us to walk in faith before we understand most anything. So and I've said this in previous nonfiction that I've written both what If it's True? And they Turn the World Upside Down. And I use this analogy that there is a difference between believing that Jesus is who he says he is and and believing in Jesus as the Messiah. The demons believe that he is the Messiah, but they have not placed their faith in him.

Charles Martin: 31:08

Sure, we believe that he is Jesus and we have postured or placed our faith in him. And I liken this to you and I standing on the side of the Grand Canyon and let's say someone has managed to build a bridge across the canyon and it's a three-mile drop below. And, you know, some circus act has capitalized on this and is now making money and they're charging people to walk out to the middle, strap that little thing around their ankles. You know, make sure the bungee is safe, grab their GoPro and then take a Peter Pan off the you know bridge, fall two miles. While the bungee is safe, grab their GoPro and then take a Peter Pan off the bridge, fall two miles while the bungee stretches nearly a mile, then snatches them back up. Well, it's one thing for you and I to sit on the side of the canyon, point at the contraption and say I believe that thing will hold me if I were to jump. It's another thing entirely to walk out there, lock it around our ankles and sail off the railing. And Jesus is asking us to do that without understanding the physics behind the bungee.

Charles Martin: 32:15

So that faith thing he really, as I wrestled through the writing of this book, the Lord challenged. And I would not tell you I lacked faith. I thought I was a faith-filled person, sure, but as I walked through this, he challenged me to deeper places in my faith that I didn't know I needed, and I'm so grateful that he did. I mean so many times he would remind me the righteous will live by faith. Without faith, it is impossible to please him. The Lord is crafting in us something far more valuable than gold, which is our faith, and so it was a beautiful thing that he did in me. He also helped. He also used it to point out the places where I was walking in fear and I didn't know it. What were some of?

Chris Grainger: 33:04

those. I'd be curious to know. I mean, it just it's always good for transparency. What were some of that stuff that he, I told?

Charles Martin: 33:11

you earlier. Christie and I bought a, bought a farm. Yeah, and for me it's it's been a lifelong thing. I, my family's from Texas. My, the Martins, come from Texas, so from the age of three we would fly out and not spend a summer or so and a week in the summer in Texas, and my grandfather was a cowboy that had a little farm and, and so I grew up with this desire for dirt and farm. And, just so you know, I go through my life. I get Christine and I marry in 93 and we have kids in 97. We raise our kids. I'm a pretty addicted bow hunter and my boys are as well.

Charles Martin: 33:48

We've always wanted a place but never been able to afford our own farm. Then in the last couple of years I just finally said to Christy I said, honey, we've been praying about this too long, we've got to fish or cut bait. I just feel like we need to step out and do this, and if we fail, at least we'll fail in faith. And she agreed and so we found, we got a broker, buddy of mine. We looked for like a year or two. We finally found this place in central georgia. We took a, we took this risk, bought this place. And so now we two, we've, as of two years ago, we now own this farm in georgia and it's great, it's more than I, it's an exorbitant gift from the Lord. I can't, I can't believe we get to walk around there and you know they call it our own. And but from the moment we closed, from the first second, we stepped foot on property that, at least according to the bank, we, you know, sort of shared an ownership with them.

Charles Martin: 34:38

Right, I was hit with a fear that I did not recognize, and it grew over the next six or eight months to the extent that I was trying to control my family's experience on our farm and trying to dictate how we did what we did. And the reason was because I know all of the behind the scenes workings of the finances, and I'm a writer and an artist and I don't get paid every two weeks and I'm not in control of how we live. I mean, I'm in control of what we spend, but not necessarily what we earn, because I can't make people read my books. And so this fear is building and one day we're sitting around the fire pit and I'm not proud of it, but here it is. This had built and I was not dealing with it well and I hadn't recognized it. And all my family is there Christy, our boys, their wives, just everybody.

Charles Martin: 35:43

And I lost my stuff, and there's a better phrase for what I did. But I just I'll save you. You know, I lost my stuff and I manifested anger and I blew up at him. And the reason I manifested anger is because I was afraid. And the reason I was afraid is because I couldn't control the outcome. And the thing that I couldn't control is that I was afraid of losing this thing which, if I'm honest, had become an idol in my heart. And I didn't realize it.

Charles Martin: 36:11

And I it's crickets around the fire pit. I just, I just laid into everybody. And you know, we leave the fire pit. I go to my tree. I'm standing there hanging there, you know, in my saddle or whatever, with my bow, and, uh, you know, I'm just, I'm just shredded, my own heart hurts and I felt like the Lord tapped me on the shoulder and he said really, is this where we are? And I just had not seen that. I was walking in fear. So I, I come back home, come back to the fire pit, everybody. I come back home, come back to the fire pit. Everybody's sitting there, it's really quiet, and I just started repenting and I'm like all right, everybody, I'm sorry, I repent, I lost my stuff with you. I had no right, but I want you to know. Here's what's going on. Your dad is afraid, I'm afraid, and here's why I'm afraid. So I just went on this confession tour and I just laid it out there with them and I said I'm sorry, I ask your forgiveness, and you know, I thought I was better and I thought, you know that was the kind of it, one and done.

Charles Martin: 37:07

About six weeks later the same thing happens this time, probably even worse, and I didn't realize the depth to which the idol had grown, my fear had manifested, and also the extent to which the enemy, who prowls around like a roaring lion, was capitalizing on my own fear. And so I was not only walking in my own fear, but at this point I'm being tormented by a spirit of fear, and I know God did not give that to me. So I blow up again. This time the Lord, he didn't have to say anything, he just tapped me on the shoulder and I was like I look at him, you know he's like yeah, so I go back and I'm like, okay, obviously your dad is still afraid, do you believe me now? And I repent again. And not only that, and I gather everybody and I pray and I just confess and I asked the Lord to forgive me and to heal my kids where I ding their hearts. And then I added this to it, and then I went from being defensive to offensive and I said to the spirit of fear that is attacking me I want you to know something this is not my farm.

Charles Martin: 38:18

This belongs to the Lord and I release it to him and you no longer have this place of purchase in me. You're not my item. This farm is not my item. It's his. If we keep it, it'll be up to him. Now I'm going to pray for faith in my stewardship, but the giving and the taking is up to him. We're guests. Secondly, you may not torment me anymore. So, in the name of Jesus, leave, come off of me, come out of my mind, my heart, my body, come off my family. If there's a stronghold on this property, I bind to the strong man that is set over this property. You can't have us. You're not going to rob us of this.

Charles Martin: 38:52

I'm going to walk in freedom here, and that was the day it turned and it changed, and that doesn't mean I haven't wrestled with it, some sense but I think that's been more of my weak flesh, not the torment of the enemy, and we've had a lot of fun and continue to have a lot of farm fun at the farm and, uh, and I and I'm grateful for how the Lord allowed my kids to see their dad is, you know, just a man and very much broken and I walk with a limp and I'm not perfect and um, you know, it's just opened up fun and they, they knew that beforehand. This was not the first time, you know, but they, um, anyway, you asked me about what fear I'd been wrestling with and why the Lord, you know, challenged my faith. And this was what's going on simultaneous to me writing this book, Wow.

Chris Grainger: 39:43

I think it's so powerful because our families need to see us as leaders, as men, as the chief repenter, and you know they need to see us apologize. And I think there's so many guys who see that as weakness or I'm not sure you know why we just downplay that. But I mean hats off to you for sharing that story. That's a level of transparency that we always hope for, but not everybody wants to go there.

Charles Martin: 40:09

Well, look, like most men, I got more skeletons in my closet and I got buddies that I have done life with for about 15 years 15 years and one of the things I'm grateful for with them is that we have somehow, through the grace of God and by his spirit, been able to walk to our basement doors, fling them open, turn on a light and say, hey, here's everything I don't want you to know about me.

Charles Martin: 40:35

Here's all the stuff I'm ashamed for you to know about me, my past, my thoughts, my actions, my words, my all of that and one of the things I've learned as we've done that because there's only one thing on planet earth that will free you from the chains of those things, and it is the truth, right Period. And one of the things I've learned as we've done that and we continue to do that it's not a one and done. We continue to. When we get together, there'll be about once a month where it's just this repentance fest where we're saying many of the same things but they need to be said again because we're still wrestling with some of the same things, maybe not at the level we were, but we. Our enemy has been fighting folks like us for a long time. He's pretty good at warfare.

Charles Martin: 41:22

So, one of the things I've noticed, though, as we open up those basement doors, is that, while we think the stairwells lead down to a basement that's ours alone, we pretty much all share the same basement. They're just different stairwells that come in on different sides. Right, we all got the same skeletons. So we all think we're ashamed of x, y and z. And we get down there and we figure out oh, you wrestle with that too, you you've been here.

Charles Martin: 41:49

So I'm grateful for brothers, uh, that he's allowed me to not be ashamed with, and, um, the way that has bled into my marriage has been, I think, more honesty with my wife and then more honesty with my kids, so I just I can't imagine doing life without them. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be talking with you right now. Yeah, pretty sure I would never written this book. Pretty sure I never would have written three. Working on four books with joe b, I'd be a mess well, speak to that.

Chris Grainger: 42:28

I mean, because this is something I obviously I harp on this a lot, but I'd love to know what does that look like for you? I mean, do you have a men's group? Do you have guys like are you getting together regularly?

Charles Martin: 42:38

give us some insight there, because I know guys are always searching here 15 to 20 years ago, I just had this thing that bubbled up in me. I'm like, I'm a writer. I spend a lot of time in the room with a computer by yourself.

Chris Grainger: 42:51

By myself.

Charles Martin: 42:52

Yeah, which is, you know, I'm comfortable with and that doesn't bother me. But this would not be good if I stayed here. I mean, there's a reason. A lot of writers start scotch at 10 am. Right, switch to tequila too. And honestly, I'm not knocking either scotch or tequila, but 10 am is the wrong time to be having, and especially if they're medicating, something that the Lord should be invited into.

Charles Martin: 43:17

And so I just began calling guys that I knew, and some of them were good friends and some are guys I just met. I was just asking the Lord, like Lord, who you want me to call? And so I called about Twelve guys and I said, hey, would you all, would you be willing to just get together and us just dig into his word? And and they're like, well, who's going to teach it? Well, I'll, I'll try. And I'm not. You know, at the time I didn't. And they're like, well, who's going to teach it? Well, I'll, I'll try, and I'm not. You know, at the time I didn't. I said, well, by default, I'll, I'll try and lead, I'll try and lead the island of misfit toys. And so we started. And come a couple of my friends said Charles, look man, we're friends, I love you and all. But I'm not even sure. If I believe in God and I'm pretty sure I don't believe in the devil and I'm like, okay, no problem, come on. If his word is true, then he'll do a thing in you and your belief will change. If not, then we'll just eat, drink and be to marry, be married, for tomorrow we may die, no problem. So we started meeting together and the you know the.

Charles Martin: 44:18

Ephesians two says when we were dead in our trespasses and sins, he made us alive. Colossians 1 says because of him we are in Christ Jesus. Exodus 14 says, talking to the Israelites I brought you to myself. In every one of those scriptures the moving agent is God most high and I saw that happen with them and with me and he did a thing in our hearts and knit us together. And next thing, I know guys really are pastuowing, they're placing their faith in Jesus and we're on our face and on our knees, learning how to worship and learning how to repent, learning how to pray with our wives. I mean learning how to pray with our wives. So I just sort of by default, I land in this role of where I'm, I'm the one teaching and it's not necessarily true to say, I was teaching early, early on. I was more more facilitating, trying to create a place where the lord was welcome and his spirit was welcome and we just read his word.

Charles Martin: 45:28

We actually started off in the book acts I said okay jesus resurrected if it is true that he did right raised from the dead and he is seated at the right hand of god. This is what life looked like after that. Right, we just read it with this real kind of okay, does your life look like that? Well, honestly, no, it really doesn't. Okay. Well, should it? Yeah, probably should. Okay, let's pray about that.

Charles Martin: 45:58

We saw the Lord do amazing things. We saw massive, crazy deliverance. We saw beautiful healing. We saw marriages restored from places that, honestly, I thought didn't have a chance. We saw addictions broken like massive addictions broken forever. Right, one of our guys had been a 27-year epileptic having 30 plus 40 plus seizures a day. Saw him totally healed. Hasn't had a seizure in 10 or 11 years now.

Charles Martin: 46:45

Oh, my gracious, um, I mean, you know, just so, um, you know, I feel a little bit like, uh, when peter and john I think peter and john are arrested for speaking the name of jesus. They're brought before the religious elite and they tell him all right, look, you've done cool stuff, but you can't speak anymore in this name. And uh, and they say, look, boo, you do you, but I cannot but speak about what I have seen and heard. That's right, and I feel, I feel that way. I've I've heard, I've had people tell me well, those things, what you're saying, is not true to Scripture.

Charles Martin: 47:21

And I'm like, well, when I look at the ministry of Jesus, yes, it is. When I look at the commandment that he's given us in Matthew 10, to preach, cleanse, heal, cast out and raise, yes, I do believe we've been given that command and authority. And look, your theory, a man with a theory doesn't stand much chance against a man with some experience. And so I'm just going to keep walking in this, in this scripture that I I believe to be true with all as much as I know my heart, with all my heart, I believe it to be true.

Chris Grainger: 47:51

Amen, amen. Hey guys, I'm going to take a quick. I find it. It helps me to have a guide at times when I'm reading and studying the Bible. One way that helps me is by using devotionals to guide not only what I read, but insights into the scriptures themselves. So we were blessed to become an author on the YouVersion Bible app and we saw an immediate opportunity to help others with devotionals around the areas that we spend the most time talking about at the Lion Within Us. So if you enjoy the show, you may enjoy these devos as well. We have some guys that are using them as part of their small groups as well, as they're a great way to get conversations going. So to see the ones that we created, head over to the lionwithinus slash you version, and that's Y-O-U-V-E-R-S-I-O-N. To learn more. So that's the lionwithinus slash you version.

Chris Grainger: 48:52

To get started with your own men's devotional today, charles, one thing that jumped out to me when you went through that, talking about being with your brothers and you just being willing to start that and just being willing to be, you know, I guess, a little vulnerable there, man, that was just that's obedience based off our current experiences and beliefs, versus just leaning into faith, like you were right here. Look, I'm not qualified to teach, but I'm willing to lean into this and facilitate it, and I think from there, obviously you talked about the blessings that flowed from that. So, man, just encourage you guys. How are you so willing just to take that first step of obedience?

Charles Martin: 49:39

Look, all of us are really and I mean this, all of us are wretched, blackhearted, prideful sinners. The biggest hurdle I discovered and have discovered in my own ministry is probably the three things pride, shame and fear. And I think if you unpack those, all of them grow out of pride, arrogance, rebellion and for some reason in that moment, when I began calling guys, the Lord allowed me sort of to circumvent my pride for a little while and not be too governed by it, Because I wasn't too afraid of what they might say or do. That would come later I wrestle with. As guys came and went and I I measured my, the effectiveness of my own ministry by the fact that numbers dwindled or numbers gained or whatever. And you can hear the problem there in my own pronouns I, I'm looking at me, but I just, for some reason, I felt like he gave me a grace in that moment to just regardless of the risk, I felt like the, I had this thought, the possibility of what might happen is way cooler than the possibility of what else might happen, and I thought well, okay, I'd rather risk something really cool with the Lord than and I've said this more recently because I've seen it as I've walked out of this place of fear and into, I think, a more healthy place of faith.

Charles Martin: 51:29

I would rather, now that I've seen it in myself and it doesn't mean I have the monopoly on this, I'm just telling you where I am so I would rather risk a mistake in faith and get to the other side, seeing and knowing that I have made a mistake, but that I made it, or Christy and I made it in what we believe to be faith at the time, rather than sit paralyzed in the tyranny of fear that is no way to live.

Charles Martin: 52:05

I do not want to sit in that place, right, I would. I would rather get to the end of whatever life the Lord has given me, stand before the throne of grace, or I'll probably be on my face. Let's just be honest.

Charles Martin: 52:19

But, on my face before the throne, my hands raised, and him look at me and know that dude made some mistakes, right, but he also made him in faith and that the thing that that, the thing that I arrive at his feet with, was the deposit of faith that he put in me as a gift, rather than the fear that the enemy cultivated in me because I wouldn't follow him in belief.

Charles Martin: 52:56

I also want to be careful. I don't want to make it sound like I'm taking credit for doing those things in me. I'm not. The Lord has done a thing in me. I am Lazarus. He literally has called me out of a grave. He raised me to life. He spoke words, took a dead man, raised him to life. Not only that, but he then rolled away the stone. And because I'm then wrapped in my own sinful grave clothes, he called other people around me to help unclothe me, because I couldn't do it myself, because I'm wrapped up like a mummy.

Charles Martin: 53:30

So, I can't take credit and I don't want to take credit, but I do know I am where he's called me and I do want to be faithful to minister where he's placed me or where he's placed me, and part of that is recognizing the fear that the enemy would use to hinder that life that he's called me to.

Chris Grainger: 53:53

You mentioned too also just the numbers. They come, they go and it's so often guys can get discouraged. Particularly when you start doing ministry you start really leaning into what God's calling you to do. Even with me and my discipleship group there are some Saturdays, two or three, two guys show up. We've got a text chain going to 15 people For me.

Charles Martin: 54:15

I you know what, in our text thread I mean invariably we will ask the question yo, what happened to the rest of you? Jack wagons, where?

Chris Grainger: 54:24

was everybody else. Yeah, Right, but for me I found it early on, it hurt me. I was like why am I not doing right? What is going on At?

Charles Martin: 54:37

the end of the day.

Chris Grainger: 54:38

it's not me I had to decouple. Holy Spirit's going to do what he does. I got to be obedient to what God's called me to do.

Charles Martin: 54:46

Unfortunately, I had a little bit of experience with this because I am a writer. I've now written 25 plus books. I've been on 20 something book tours and while a book tour now maybe, is a little different, in the beginning I would and I mean this happened multiple times I would show up to a signing, sit there for two hours with 12 books on the table because the bookstore really gambled and bought 12 books. And I would sit there for two hours and not a single person would show up. I had this humbling thing where I learned I'm not all that. And you know, people would walk in the bookstore and they would buy every other famous person's book that you can imagine. And I'm sitting there, just, you know, shredded, because nobody's buying my book. And that happened a bunch, and it happened in big cities and big bookstores.

Charles Martin: 55:46

And you know, even today, when I go to a bookstore, I have this little thing inside me and it's fear of rejection is what it is. But I have this little thing inside me that's is anybody going to show up? I'm like, please, lord, please, let somebody show up, because you know you give birth to this thing and you release it to the world and you want everybody to love it as much as you do. And then when you get there and there's not a soul, you're like, well, man, that is painful. So fortunately, thankfully today you know a couple of people will show up and that's more fun and I'm really grateful for that. And I and I mean it when people show up and I tell them look, I'm really grateful you're here. I mean that because I've been in places where not a soul has shown up.

Charles Martin: 56:23

But with regards to the group of guys, it grew, you know, the numbers expanded and then we began really wrestling with the truths of scripture and I learned what Jesus saw in John six that when you start pressing people with believing what scripture says, some people choose not to and some people walk away. And maybe I need to take credit or maybe I need to accept fault for some of that. Maybe I didn't communicate it well, maybe I said something wrong, maybe I dinged some, whatever, I'm not above reproach there. But the truth is most of the people walking away were walking away from Scripture that they refused to believe. True, and to this day, as far as I know, they still refuse to believe that it's true.

Charles Martin: 57:11

So, they didn't want to be a part of a group of guys who were praying in such a way that they were uncomfortable with Right. I mean, literally, I'd be teaching one night and I could still see it A guy got up right in front of me and just walked out. He just walked out. He just just walked out. Really, I don't even remember what I was talking about. I do know we were in the book of acts and I was talking about the lives of the apostles. You know? Yeah, so I don't know. It's a. Yes, I've been rejected. Yes, I do believe rejection is the deepest wound of the human soul.

Charles Martin: 57:47

No, it's not fun, but at the end of the day, ultimately and again, this does not absolve us from trying to figure out how to communicate it well, but at the end of the day, they're rejecting Jesus, and I did take solace, and I do take solace in the fact that Jesus, the one who created communication and the one who created words, when he spoke, not everyone believed him, right.

Chris Grainger: 58:14

Yeah, a hundred percent. And we can't sit there and read our Bible with a highlighter and a pair of scissors. And I think that a lot of times, that's what guys do they cut out what they don't, they highlight what they like. And I think that a lot of time, that's what guys do? They cut out what they don't, they highlight what they like, and you know, and you see this in Mark 7.

Charles Martin: 58:51

Mark 7 is a clash between Jesus and the religious elite and the whole thing has to do with hand washing, which occurs nowhere in the law. But they are talking about why do your apostles not eat and wash their hands, and all that. And Jesus says something to the effect that with your commandments you make null and void the word of God. And then he says it is the traditions of man that nullify or make void the word of God. And I thought man, that's the only thing on planet earth that can nullify or make void his word. It's our tradition and I saw guys who would show up with a preconceived notion of what ought to happen or coming from a tradition, and they were unwilling or unable to see how that tradition informed their belief more than the word.

Charles Martin: 59:42

And they weren't willing to set aside their tradition for a moment and look at the word and ask what does it really say? All right, if it says this, then is there a problem with this word? Or is there a problem with my tradition and my past experience? And a lot of guys I found had been dinged or wounded by the church and they couldn't separate the abuse of the church. And I get this. I'm not knocking them, but they couldn't separate the abuse of the church or the abuse of the priest who touched them when they shouldn't have from the word of God and they translated that abuse to the Lord and we saw some guys freed from that, some guys walk in real freedom and some guys were like peace out, yeah.

Chris Grainger: 1:00:27

Yeah, yeah, and that's, that's that's reality.

Chris Grainger: 1:00:31

That's truth, and I mean hats off to you. I mean I just, I think just the fact that you went through that right there with us. Encouragement to you guys out there if you're in small groups or starting one, just lean in, be obedient, cause you never know that if that blessing may just come on the other side of that one step of obedience that you take by by just leaning in and and and encouraging others, so, man Charles, this has been great man this has been. I've actually loved this conversation. I loved it. Before we wrap up, can we play a quick lightning round with you?

Charles Martin: 1:01:00

Yeah, let me say one thing before you do that 100%, just because I want to bring us back and I'm not even quite sure what a lightning round is, but we'll get there. Well, let me bring it back around full circle, to the book, not to make it about me, and forgive me if it sounds like I'm trying to, you know, hawk books or whatever. The reason that I feel so strongly about the pilgrimage is because the Lord took me from a place where I thought I really knew him, and I did. And he took me to a place with a much deeper revelation through his word, through the power of his spirit that's consistent with his word. And I got to see my King and know my King in a way, and at a level of intimacy and depth and trust and faith and truth about myself that I had not known. And and it's not because I'm a great writer, it's not because I know what I'm doing, it's not because any of that foolishness, it's because the Lord did a thing and allowed me to follow him along and write as best I could with the gifts that he's given me, so that we end up back at the cross, day after day after day after day, and we never took our eyes off of it.

Charles Martin: 1:02:21

Paul in his letter to the Galatians. In all of his letters Paul thanks God for the people to whom he's writing, save one, and that's the churches of Galatia. And he skips that entirely. He just launches from the beginning. He says I'm so surprised that you have so quickly walked away from the faith with which you once started. And by chapter three he reams him a new orifice and he says foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you? Before whose eyes Jesus Christ was personally portrayed as crucified. And what happened is that this group of believers who were eyewitnesses to the resurrection. They saw Jesus walk out of the tomb, they saw him resurrected, dead, buried, live again. For some reason they had taken their eyes off the cross and they had added something to it. And now they were off of the ministry of Jesus. And Paul said I preach Christ in him crucified. God forbid that I should boast. Save anything but Christ and his crucifixion.

Charles Martin: 1:03:22

As I began looking at the life of Paul, paul never took his eyes off the cross and even in his admonition to the Corinthians he said when we do this and he's talking about us remembering the body and blood of Jesus, what we call communion. When we remember this new covenant, we proclaim his death until he returns. Well, why is death? Why not his miracles? Why not the dead? Why not Lazarus? Why not feeding? Why not healing? Why not deliverance? Well, because without the cross, there is no payment that satisfies the wrath of God, there's no return to the father, there's no ability for us to ever get back to the Father absent the propitiation, the payment that satisfies the wrath of God.

Charles Martin: 1:04:14

The blood of Jesus poured out on Calvary and I saw that day after day after day after day, and I just was pierced and crushed with the knowledge that the King would shed his blood really for me, and that over those 40 days I saw at a deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper level, not only me but the love with which he has loved us, and it's a crazy kind of inconceivable kind of love, and I mean it when I say I'm grateful that he allowed me to write it. I told my boys a couple of months ago they were asking I was finishing up edits and all this and I've written 25 or 28 books. And I said, look, if I get hit by a train tomorrow and for some reason you can only keep one of my books. Keep this one, because all the rest of them point to this one, and this one points to the only one who matters.

Chris Grainger: 1:05:14

Amen. Yeah, I was even when I was reading last night, just preparing, I was thinking you know what? So my wife and I we're going to sit down and go day by day with this together, take our time with it, you know, really just spend some time, I mean 40 days, and just I want to do it with her. So I encourage you guys, because the way you lay this out, you know you just there's a lots of, there's obviously lots of scripture references, but then you talk to you take it back to the cross at the end of every day and a beautiful prayer. So I mean, fellas, I'm telling you, if you're looking for ways to just connect with your wife, I mean just just walk through this with her as well.

Chris Grainger: 1:05:50

So that'd be my encouragement to you, cause, yeah, well, charles, let's jump into this lightning round. Man, we always like to wrap up with a little fun on our episodes. Man, this is quick, quick, hitter stuff, nothing, nothing too too scary here, but, uh, just a great way for our listener to get to know you a little bit more. So you've already mentioned you're a bow hunter or you're farming any other hobbies that you like to do for?

Charles Martin: 1:06:14

fun Um, I don't know that I'd call it a hobby but, being a writer, I'm stationary a lot and I, I, I gotta get up and move my body. So I'll like, even after this podcast, I'm going to. I've been working all this morning. I'm here talking with you. I got to get up and do something, so I'll go in the garage and sweat a little while and I and I'm not all that and I'm not a massive crossfitter and I'm not whatever, but I got to do something to get blood flowing, and so I'll, I'll, I'll, I do work out a little bit. Um, I love spending time with Christie. Um, I'm grateful for my wife.

Charles Martin: 1:06:53

I mean that you know, um, I do look forward to September 15th, which is the opening of both season in Georgia.

Chris Grainger: 1:07:04

Ah, I hear you, buddy. I hear you buddy, I hear you I'm down to the day. He knows it, fellas. So that's it. That's it. I see you got the Matthews shirt on there too. So good stuff right there.

Charles Martin: 1:07:14

Yeah, I forgot that too. But yeah I am, I'm wearing a Matthews shirt. I'm a massive Matthews fan, Pearson.

Chris Grainger: 1:07:22

There you go. Good stuff, man. Now how about favorite food for Charles? What are you enjoying? If you had one meal, what are you going with?

Charles Martin: 1:07:31

Oh, that's easy. A ribeye that I cook, that you cook. Oh yeah, I'm a total steak snob and I know how I like it seasoned, I know how I like it cooked, at what temperature, on what fire. And yeah, let me matter of fact, you can keep everything else. You can keep the vegetables, the potatoes, whatever, just let me have the rib eye.

Chris Grainger: 1:07:52

Let you have the rib eye, I'm with you. All right, how about sports teams? I'm just curious on this one. Or colleges?

Charles Martin: 1:07:59

College. You know I'm a I'm a pretty big Georgia Bulldog fan, which is strange because my dad played at Florida back in the 50s. I played one year. I played, I walked on. Play would be a liberal use of the word, but I walked on, was on the team, dressed out, practiced, got hurt at Georgia Tech in 1989.

Charles Martin: 1:08:28

at georgia tech in 1989 and uh, and so I for a long time I wouldn't watch football because I did, you know, my idol was torn down. But then later, uh, as my career grew and people began reading my books, so I I got a, I got a note from a guy who was a starting lineman for the georgia bulldogs, who was a starting lineman for the Georgia Bulldogs, and so I got to know him and go to the games and I really fell in love with Mark Rick, just as a coach and as a man.

Charles Martin: 1:08:52

And so I just, you know, fell in love with the dogs and so last couple of years have been a lot of fun. I have no idea what the future will hold. I think NIL is horrible the name, image and likeness stuff. I think it's just killing college athletics. I see that it was the natural progression and all that, but it's horrible it is. It's the worst thing ever and one of these days these kids will realize it.

Chris Grainger: 1:09:20

But anyway, that's right. Well, I guess that also helps working with Joby. If you have the Georgia background, you know we do share that in common. Sure, that could be kind of tough if you didn't. So how about check any new habits, anything that you started doing, a new habit or a tip that you would encourage guys to check out? New habit?

Charles Martin: 1:09:46

I don't know. I feel like I'm more stuck in my ways. I'm. You know, I'm 54 now I'm probably less inclined to start new habits, although although we are now. We have a farm and I'm putting in irrigation wells and we're irrigating for Christie's flowers and plants and pecans, we got bees and I mean, you know, we're growing a plethora of garden up in central Georgia and it was really cool.

Charles Martin: 1:10:16

This past weekend we were trying to finish up our roads and our roads needed some gravel.

Charles Martin: 1:10:21

So I brought in some machinery and some people, some trucks and dumping rock and I got poking around in these woods where I want to put a little cabin for like a writer's cabin, it's kind of up on a hill and I'll have a view over a field and I don't have the money for it, but I'm dreaming, you know, and um, so I'm poking around in these woods and I find some old, um, some old 10 roofing up.

Charles Martin: 1:10:46

It's real thick, thick, and I found this tin roofing and then I find this pile of brick and it and there's a big pile and it kind of stretches out through the woods and it appears to me like it was a chimney that fell over. Oh yeah, and it's disintegrating. And then I'm walking around and I look down and I see a hole in the ground. It's about four feet wide by five feet long. I throw a rock in there and it sounds to me to be about 15 feet deep and it was the well for a home. And not an hour later the motor grader is going down the road right by there and the motor grader pulls away some dirt from one of the hillsides and a pipe away. Some dirt from one of the hillsides and a pipe. It becomes exposed and it's like a four inch well pipe with a hand pump on it oh right across the road from the well that I found and what we you know.

Charles Martin: 1:11:35

Obviously it's an old homestead, an old farm site, and this road that goes through our property was an old rural route and used to be a main route down to the river and, um, uh, I just thought it was really neat. There's no telling the number of people that have stopped there to get a sip of water and, um, I just love it that the lord would allow us to have a place that has poured water into people for a long time. And we found last year we found some springs on our property that literally bubbling out of the side of the earth. There's flow all the time. That's great and I just love it. So it's a new hobby for me is probably poking around through the woods trying to find old wells.

Chris Grainger: 1:12:22

Amen, love it to find old wells. Amen, love it Well. Last question for our lightning round, charles, is what do you hope the guys listening to this conversation they go on through. It is finished the pilgrimage. What do you hope they remember the most?

Charles Martin: 1:12:37

Look, all of us, whether your theology makes room for this or not, here's what's true One of these days, all of us you, me, everybody that's listening to this and will listen to this is going to find ourselves at the feet of the King of all Kings, and we're going to bow, and we're going to bow in the name of Jesus. Now we have two options we can bow then or we can bow now. Now is a time of our choosing. Then is a time of his choosing. I want to choose to bow now, because if I wait until then, the outcome is not good for me. The way that I do that in my heart, the way that we do that is we as men and you said it earlier we well start off by surrendering and yielding to his lordship, but then walking with him becomes a walk of daily repentance.

Charles Martin: 1:13:31

Luther said that the walk of the Christian is one of daily repentance, and if we get away from that, then we tend to become filled up with arrogance and pride, and we miss that even more so than we are. And so if they hear anything coming out of your or my mouth, it's not about my book, it's not about me, it's none of that, it's? Are you walking in? Not just repentance once? But Paul prayed that God may grant them repentance, and if God grants repentance, then it is a gift. Have you received it today? When your feet hit the floor, before your feet hit the floor, before your eyes cracked open, did you worship before the king? Did you say, lord, I haven't loved you with my whole heart. I'm really sorry. Can we start over today? Will you walk with me? I haven't loved you with my whole heart. I'm really sorry. Can we start over today? Will you walk with me? Can I walk with you? Can I just spend some time in your presence?

Charles Martin: 1:14:31

I think if we, as men, really learned how to walk in repentance and again, I don't have a monopoly on this, I don't. I'm not trying to say that. I just know that our repentance is a sweet fragrance that wafts up before his throne, and that's when we smell the most like Jesus. We are the fragrance of Christ, and so I want to do this with my buddies, I want to do this with my wife, I want to do this with my kids. That doesn't mean I stay in that place where I'm constantly, you know, lashing myself with whips. I mean we do walk out of that place where we repent and we forgive, and then you know we got this stuff to be done, right, but I don't want to miss that step.

Charles Martin: 1:15:17

There is only one path that leads back to the cross of Jesus, and that path is a path of repentance. And so I just, I know all of us want to get to the empty tomb. We all want to jump up and down about the resurrection. Trust me, I'm with you. I want to. I want to celebrate the resurrection we just have. We've just come through Easter, through Passover, and I, as much as anybody, I, I want to proclaim the resurrection until he returns. But there is no path to that resurrection that doesn't pass beneath the shadow of his cross, and the only way you and I get to his cross is on our knees and in repentance and in a recognition that we are not all that we think we are. So I would implore, I would plead, I would beg you, as your brother, sometime Now, a few minutes from now, turn off everything that's dinging, quiet your life, humble yourself before the king, find repentance and then walk out of that place.

Chris Grainger: 1:16:26

Amen, amen. Well, charles, that place, amen, amen. Well, charles. That was beautifully said To be expected. Working with you, where would you like to point the listeners if they want to learn more about you, the things that you've written? Obviously, it is finished. Is there a website, any particular area?

Charles Martin: 1:16:42

Yeah, you can go to my website. It's charlesmartinbookscom. You can find me all over Amazon. You can find me on social media. I don't do social media. I don't consume it, I don't really look at it, but my wife handles it for me and every now and then I'll kind of chime in when she tells me I need to. I find it a distraction, but I realize it's necessary. So so while I'm knocking it, I'm also telling you that you can find part of me there I have a newsletter where I tend to talk about things more personally.

Charles Martin: 1:17:10

You can find that on my website and if you want to skip all that, you can just go to Amazon Guys.

Chris Grainger: 1:17:18

Go check it out, charlesmartinbookscom. So we'll definitely point them there, charles. For sure That'd be in the show notes for you listeners out there. So anything else you'd like to share today sir?

Charles Martin: 1:17:31

Hey man, I appreciate you.

Chris Grainger: 1:17:31

I appreciate you making space for me. Bless you, thank you, it's an honor. Thank you, charles. I hope you have a great day you too. Are you a manager, solopreneur or business leader? Are you a husband or father? Do you have people counting on you to guide and direct them personally and or professionally? Get the guidance and confidence you need at the Summit Leadership Development, an intensive, biblically-based mastermind group that transcends the boundaries of conventional leadership. Where there is no vision, the people perish. That's why we focus on the perfect, inerrant Word of God to become strong men and leaders in our business, home and community. Join other men who are ready to speak and embrace truth. Learn how to refine your approach and become a beacon of light in a dark world in all aspects of life. Our intentional monthly sessions will give you an accountability partner to dig deeper. Throughout the month, the Summit is empowering leaders like you to amplify their influence in the workforce, home and community. Don't miss this opportunity to become a strong leader in a weak world. Secure your spot today at thelionwithinus slash leadership. That's thelionwithinus slash leadership, all right, guys? Well, hopefully you enjoyed that one. I told you it was going to be chock full. There's definitely lots of things that he talked about For sure. Check out the show notes, the website, for everything to get connected with Charles. And what ultimately leads us with this question I really want you to think about that this week is what will you do with this man, jesus? And you have a decision, we all do. We have a decision on what we're going to do. Are we going to bow down and just worship Him, or are we going to choose our own path? And it's my hope, it's my encouragement to you, just as Charles just reiterated in his closing remarks. I implore you, implore, you, do whatever you need to do to just draw to Him, and if things are popping into your life that are pulling you away from him, you got to be on the fence, you got to get him out, you got to have your guard up. The evil one wants you to be distracted. The evil one wants you to pursue your path instead of his path, and I just want to encourage you when it comes to what are you going to do with this man named Jesus. He needs to be Lord of your life. It can't be anything in front of him, and that's my encouragement to you. So, fellas, hopefully you enjoyed this. I'd ask you to share this out with others. That's how the podcast grows. That's how we share our messages. Just, guys like you take, like you take the time, hit the share button, send a text message out to your group. Maybe you have a group of guys or your buddies that you just want to share a message like this with. It could be an encouragement to them. You never know how something that was said here may just be exactly what they need to hear. It could just be that what they need to hear to maybe sure up and start going back to their discipleship group or just leaning back into a small group or just answering your texts when you check in on them. Okay, so check that stuff out for sure. If you can give us a rating and review, that's big time. That helps the big thing you can do. Head over to thelionwithinus.

Chris Grainger: 1:20:59

When I talk about we put tons and tons and tons of effort into that site. Can't emphasize that enough. There's lots of resources there for you. We've broken down things for you to kind of help you understand. Okay, if you come to the site and you want to work on being a better husband, okay, here's some resources for you there If you want to work on stewardship? Okay, here's some resources there. If you want to start putting some guardrails around your mind, what can you do? Okay, here's some resources there. If you want to check out our devotionals the resources there. If you want to learn more information about our Summit Leadership Development Program and how we really lean in to tackle being a biblically ethical leader in our business, how do you do that? Hey, it's all right there.

Chris Grainger: 1:21:42

So head over to thelionwithinus for all those resources. Great ways to get connected. Okay, all right, guys. And by the way, don't forget our community, community, community. We have 30 day free trials. We have meetings happening every day. You can connect with me, you can connect with others within the community. We're actively being intentional about being disciples of Christ and helping just guys be leaders, the leaders that God's called us to be. If you need help with that, if you're encouraged by that, if you're intrigued by that, go check it out. That's why we do a 30-day free trial. We want to just peel back the curtain and let you see what it's like to see. If it serves you, all right, all right, guys, get after it. Have a great day. Thank you again for taking the time to listen Again. Share this stuff out, come back on Friday for some tips, for some good dad jokes, and you know we're going to have a lot of fun with that.

Charles Martin: 1:22:32

Okay, all right, so get after it.

Chris Grainger: 1:22:38

Have a great day and keep unleashing the line.