393. How We Honor God And Live In The Secular Space Simultaneously With Jared Haley

Ever wondered how to authentically live out your Christian faith in a secular workplace? Our special guest, Jared Haley—an experienced pastor and public speaker—shares his invaluable journey from Colorado to Florida and how his time at Quaker Ridge Camp profoundly shaped his spiritual walk. Jared's rich background in ministry is a treasure trove of practical insights on moving beyond superficial faith and becoming a genuine beacon of hope in challenging environments. This episode promises to teach you how to be blameless and pure, shining like stars in a world that often questions our values.

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https://thelionwithin.us/podcast/393-how-we-honor-god-and-live-in-the-secular-space-simultaneously-with-jared-hayley/

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Transcript

Chris Grainger: 1:46

Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast serving Christian men who are hungry to be the leaders God intends you to be. I'm your host, chris Granger. Let's jump in. All right, guys, it's your meat episode. I'm excited to be here with you, so let's get right into it. So you know how we're going to start. Right, it's the same way we start every episode with God's Word.

Chris Grainger: 2:02

So this week we've been focusing on the book of Philippians. Okay, so, philippians, chapter 2, two verses though 14 and 15, it says do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure children of God, without fault, in a crooked and depraved generation in which you shall shine like stars in the universe. So, guys, that's what it's all about. We're going to be digging into this today. How can we shine like stars in the universe? So, guys, that's what it's all about. We're going to be digging into this today. How can we shine like stars in the secular workplaces that we find ourselves working? We spend so much time at work. What can you do to be set apart and to really do all you can to pull people to come to know Christ?

Chris Grainger: 2:44

So, to have this conversation, I brought in my buddy, jared Haley. He's a follower of Jesus First and foremost guys. He's a pastor, a public speaker. He he believed that God created design for strong faith and healthy families and we talk a lot about this. He's been 20 years professional ministry fellows and with he has a master's degree in transformational leadership and spiritual formation and he's really just all about investing in people. He's a relationship guy right, and anytime he gets a chance to speak publicly to share with others about the wisdom he's learned from God's word, he's going to do that and it's just. We talk a lot about his journey from Colorado, how his route took him to Iowa, to Ireland, all over the place, how he's using podcasting now to really lean in and point people to help them grow in their faith. And he's still active in the local church. He serves as a leader. He sings on the worship team. He's big into volunteering and stuff like that.

Chris Grainger: 3:46

He also has four kids, you know, ranging from, I think he said, 14 or 13 down to nine years old. So he's old to go all the time, been married for 15 years. Lots and lots of good things ahead of him for sure, but just a great conversation with him. He gets to some practical truths in this conversation on how we can really move past this surface level, trying to try to just kind of fake it throughout our day, to to be intentional about walking out of faith and being an opportunity to be that beacon, to be that light of hope to others around us. So hopefully you guys take some takeaways from this one. Jared's a fun guy, just a good one, a fun guy to hang out with. He lives in Florida now, by the way, for you Florida guys out there. So he's down in Tampa and hopefully you're just going to enjoy this conversation with my buddy, jared Haley. Well, jared, welcome to the Lion Within Us. How are you doing today, man?

Jared Hayley: 4:45

Good man, so glad to be here.

Chris Grainger: 4:47

I'm excited to have you here, buddy. I mean we did swap so I went on your show. I was like man, we've got to have you on the Lion.

Jared Hayley: 4:59

So before we get into, it, man, tell me something fun about you that not many people know about. Something fun about me, man, I don't know. Everybody knows everything about me, right? Um, you know I I'm not. I'm originally from Colorado, um, and so we're living down in the uh, clearwater Tampa area now. But, uh, growing up, uh, I'll just, I'll give a shout out to a camp camp.

Jared Hayley: 5:30

Quaker Ridge Camp in Colorado is where my, my spiritual formation happened, and so it's, it's a place where God called me into ministry the first time. It's a place that throughout it's funny God always brings me back. So I went there going like as a family camp. We went as a family up there growing up, went there for like middle school camp and high school camp. Uh, in college I was part of a traveling worship team where we helped lead music there, been a speaker for camps there, and then when I got my master's program, that's where we had our cohort with me meet there, and so it's just it's cool to have a place. When people talk about having a mountaintop experience, yeah, this is right, in the Rocky Mountains, and so it's like, if I ever need to to get away or go somewhere where I'm like man, I really want to connect with God man. That's a beautiful place to do it.

Jared Hayley: 6:29

And so it's on my mind, because my sister and brother-in-law are now the directors of that camp and they were just visiting me, visiting our family, this last week, and so it's something that I was thinking about, like where we are now. We've only been here for a couple of years and it's hard to find places of seclusion and solitude where we are. I was thinking about camp and how easy it is just to walk out into the woods or walk up on, go wherever and be just alone with God.

Jared Hayley: 7:09

Those are all wonderful special times.

Chris Grainger: 7:12

Amen, just to be quiet and to be still. There's something about that. Well, that sounds awesome for sure. I mean, I guess you're just a flight away, though, right, just Tampa to Colorado.

Jared Hayley: 7:23

Yeah, it is. It's one flight away, you know, but it's a long, long expensive flight. Oh yeah, that's right.

Chris Grainger: 7:30

That's right, that's right, Well, man share a little bit about your journey. I know you have an interesting background.

Jared Hayley: 7:42

Would love to just let the listeners get to know you a little bit of your path to where you're at right now. Yeah, so I, like I said I grew up in Colorado. So I, like I said I grew up in Colorado, it was in middle school that I was listening to a missionary speak at Quaker Ridge and, as I think it was actually before he was speaking, it was during the worship and music portion. I say worship loosely because worship is more than just the music. But the music time where we were specifically worshiping God, I heard his voice ask me to take my shoes off and I thought that's weird. And I didn't make the connection until later with Moses and the burning bush, when God said remove your feet, for the place you're standing is holy ground. But for me it was really an obedience thing of hey, can I ask you to do something and will you be obedient to it even if nobody else in the room is doing it? So, sure enough, after a little bit of wrestling with it, I took my shoes off and just continued to worship God. And that was the night that, as the, as the, you know, the, the speaker was speaking. I can't even tell you who they were what their name was. But God said, hey, I want to use you, I want to call you to be in, to be set apart for ministry. And so, you know, off away I went, you know, and, uh, you know, through I it wasn't like things were perfect from then on out, but, you know, I knew what college God was asking me to go to and in high school, you know, started, you know, got on the worship team at church and started a Bible study at school and kind of started getting my feet wet and things. I went off to Bible college and, you know, out of that experience, met some people where I was able to go to Ireland for a couple of years and do youth and music at a church out there, got married, came back to Colorado, was a worship pastor for several years, ended up moving to Iowa and was a senior pastor for about five years at a little church in Iowa. Went back to Colorado to more of a medium-sized church where I did youth for about eight months and then moved into I was a campus pastor and then I was a pastor of innovation, which is basically, you know, really evangelism in the digital spaces. Okay, you know.

Jared Hayley: 10:06

So a some youtube shows. We did, like a the not so late show, which we only did one episode of that, but it was really fun, um, you know, interviewing different people, uh. And then we did a show called practical living, which is where I would go and learn a skill, uh from uh somebody, and then we would also get their story, um, and so we did a welder, we did a tattoo artist, a race car driver, an MMA fighter um, where it was cool, you know, getting to learn these different skills and talents that these people had, but then also really getting to hear how God impacts them and then also how they take Jesus into that space, um, whatever that is. And so, um, that was, that was a really cool deal and something that, you know, maybe down the road we'll be able to pick that back up again. We only we ended up doing, I think, five or six episodes of that, but the idea with that is, you know, we wanted to to minister to, to minister to men in the digital space, and recognizing that typically, men, if they want to learn something, they go to YouTube, and so, hey, what if they're looking up welding and all of a sudden, you know, this guy's video popped up and they could learn welding, but then they would also get a little bit of the gospel, so right, so that was, that was cool stuff. And now after that, because of all of that experience, I started doing video production for the church and that's how I ended up.

Jared Hayley: 11:33

Down here in Tampa is I'm actually do video production for a company called Critical Bench, and Critical Bench is a fitness publishing company and they also have we have our podcast that we put out called Strong by Design.

Jared Hayley: 11:48

The owner is actually a Christian guy and he wanted to give back, and so Strong by Design is all. We're created in God's image mind, body, spirit and so how do we get back to that? You know, how do we get back to the original design and take care of our bodies through fitness and nutrition, take care of our minds through learning and growth and he'll talk like entrepreneurial stuff a little bit as well. And then they asked me to cover all the faith-based stuff you know. So we do faith and family and all things you know spirituality and getting back so kind of made in God's image. So we want all of who we are to go back to that original design. So that's kind of my quick story. You know, got married in 2009. We have four awesome kids. You know, our oldest is 12. We have an 11 year old and then twins that are nine.

Jared Hayley: 12:44

So I mean, life is busy, life is great, but just trying to enjoy every season that we're in you know, I feel you man.

Chris Grainger: 12:52

I was getting ready to say you don't have a lot on your calendar is what I'm hearing.

Jared Hayley: 12:57

We basically just sleep in every day and, you know, at times we try to convince ourselves to get out of bed.

Chris Grainger: 13:03

So that's right, that's right, yeah, I feel you, I got four myself, man, so I'm with you there, brother. Well, I'm curious because you, you've made this transition to this new company. Obviously, you're able to bring your faith element into it, but you know, I know one thing that you're pretty passionate about is helping guys understand how you can honor God and kind of the secular places that we find ourselves working. Yeah, and I'd love to get your insight on how to do this, because I know this is a struggle. This is a struggle area for lots of guys being able to close that gap for who they are on Sunday versus, you know, wednesday afternoon. You know.

Jared Hayley: 13:38

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, I mean it's. I'm blessed to be in a good culture where I'm able to express my faith, and and most of the people here not everybody, but most of the majority of people are believers, you know as well, followers of Jesus as well, but that hasn't always been the case. You know, I've had lots of jobs, one in particular, when I was working as a music pastor in Denver. I was only part-time at the church, and so that wasn't enough I mean, it's ministry money anyway and so I was full-time working at the Westin, which is a hotel.

Jared Hayley: 14:16

I was a bellman for you know, we did valet, we did room service, you know we did all kinds of different stuff, and it was actually a really, really fun job and, honestly, it was some of the best ministry that I've ever had, because you're working hand in hand with people, you're, you're in the trenches with people. They, you know, you're, you're suffering the same sufferings with people. So it's not in ministry like, especially as a pastor. People are coming to you and you're trying to empathize with their situation, but when you're on the job with somebody, you're like you're in it with them.

Jared Hayley: 14:53

You're like we're, we're, we're struggling together through this thing. You know our, our finances, especially with those who are on the same playing field with you. We all have the same financial struggles. We all have the same time struggles. You know all of these different things.

Jared Hayley: 15:08

So to be able to relate with someone on that level and then for you to be able to have a different attitude in the way that you approach life, without even having to say things, you know, it didn't take people long to be asking me questions about why I am the way I am, you know, and really praying and asking the Holy Spirit to open up opportunities to share my faith with people.

Jared Hayley: 15:37

My wife and I always say you know, earn the right to have the conversation. You know where you're investing in someone and caring about them as a human being first, and then that allows them to trust you, to bring up your faith and to bring in Jesus and to say, hey, you know, I know this sucks, but here's hope that we have beyond this moment, you know, and to really be able to start speaking into people's lives. You know, to really be able to start speaking into people's lives, you know, and helping them see how non-religious Jesus. You know Jesus as the person who, the God who cares and loves them, can actually help them in their situation and nothing ever has to change, other than my perspective begins to shift and change because I understand that God is bigger than what I'm going through and really whatever I'm dealing with is only for a moment and eternity is a really long time and helping helping provide that eternal perspective in the midst of whatever's going on.

Jared Hayley: 16:42

So I would say, for for guys, it really starts with if you want to follow Jesus, you know it starts with praying and inviting Jesus into your workspace and saying God, help for me to have character. That is a good reflection of Jesus number one. Number two God, give me opportunities to speak with people that are ready to hear. So those are kind of my two encouraging things for people, and that's tough. You know, I have a good friend of mine. His name is Wally and he's a welder and like, especially in like those types of, you know, construction.

Jared Hayley: 17:24

You know I have another guy, phil, who's in construction. You know another guy, uh uh, who is in the oil fields. You know. I mean these are like rough, rough areas where where guys are are really, you know, hard and rigid, but they're doing it, they're bringing their faith into these spaces and and seeing other people. And there's going to be some people that are just put off by it and want nothing to do with it and there's nothing like that's their decision, that's their choice, but at the same time, those few people that they're able to really invest in and God's really able to open those doors and they're able to see transformation in other people's lives because of how God is working through their life. It's a cool thing, it is. It's a cool thing it is.

Chris Grainger: 18:08

It's a very cool thing, hey guys. We'll be right back If you're a man who's looking for greater spiritual guidance into how to become a better leader. Finding resources that you can trust and then implement can be daunting For me personally. I thought it was a lost cause and I decided to take the action, knowing that I wasn't alone. It was because of this wide gap that we created our line within this community, and the areas that we're helping Christian men grow are incredible. For instance, we've built ways for guys to lean in and grow through fun events like our daily spiritual kickoff, where you get that much needed boost directly from God's word, our Bible studies that always focus on how to discern and apply what we learn, and even our amazing form where you can speak your mind without fear of getting shut down or judged by the extreme rules of modern day social media. On top of all that, we know that many men want help overcoming issues and becoming stronger in many different areas. That's why we created several mastermind groups, where the iron truly sharpens iron. Our community is about having a growth mindset, accountability, intentionality and transparency. In other words, just leave fake you at home and come to community just as you are.

Chris Grainger: 19:26

I fully believe what we've feel. I see the impact it's making on men right now and I would love to have you check it out. So start your very own 30 day free trial today to see how we can help you be a better leader. So if you're ready to take that first step, head over to thelinewithinus and get started. Your journey begins here. Visit thelinewithinus and I'll see you inside the den. Hey, jared, I'm curious, man. The work that you did at the at the Westin do you have any stories or any examples of that just stand out, of where you're able to really make that connection with someone and that relationship? Maybe I don't know if this was like peers you're working with, or just like guests, or, or, or what I'd just love to get some you know firsthand account of where you saw this come to fruition.

Jared Hayley: 20:17

Yeah, definitely with other employees. You know being able to, because, as a bellman, we have some downtime, like you know, there's there's surges, right, but sometimes, you know we're in the back, we're able to have conversations, or we're just hanging out in at the, at the lobby, at, like the valet station, or to have have these conversations where people are. They were able to ask me real honest questions about things that they struggled with or or their faith, or even having opportunities where, uh, I'm able to pray with people. You know that maybe wouldn't normally want that Um, there's a one guy that, um, he he was a believer as well and just really uh able to uh encourage him in his faith and what God was was calling him to do, um, and seeing him flourish as a father. You know he had a young family as well, so flourishing as a father.

Jared Hayley: 21:19

Um, you know, I wish I had like a really cool like conversion story. You know I, I know I, you know I don't where someone was like no, I, I hate God and now I love God. You know I didn't right that never happened, but there were people that were on the fringe, um, but then they're, you know they, they started uh getting back involved in their faith. You know, they started going back to church, um, and so I think a lot of times I hated this idea that if I'm a pastor, all of a sudden I'm different than everybody else, I'm like no, like I'm not, I'm no different than I'm still a human being and just trying to figure it out.

Jared Hayley: 22:05

And so I loved having those conversations with people where they would go wait, you're a pastor at a church too, you know, I just thought you were a normal person, you know. And for them to to have that epiphany of, hey, people are just people, we're just trying to get together, and for them to go, ok, okay, I can do that, you know. And so to me, that was, it wasn't the sprint in people's lives, it was the marathon and helping them to see the marathon. You know, and I still have connections with some of those guys where they will, if they have questions, they they'll still message me on instant message, you know, through Facebook messenger or whatever where we may. We established that relationship where they trust me as a person, that if I have questions about God or if I have questions about my faith, I can still reach out to Jared, and then I know that he's going to give it to me straight and love me where I'm at A hundred percent Jared.

Chris Grainger: 23:12

So I'm just real curious. So you had that, you know you. Obviously you had that training. So you, you came into it with a different light. So there's lots of guys out there who didn't go to seminary that had the background that you have. Give them some some advice on how. I talk to guys a lot about mixing in, not blending in. So it's kind of correlated to like a chocolate chip cookie, like you can see the chocolate chips in that cookie but it's not part, it's not blended into the dough, it's still distinguishable. And you know how how do you go about doing that without being like that that weird dude? Right, that's just hitting people with bible verses. We have a coffee cup with philippians, you know, on it or something like that. Right, it's just how do you do that in a natural way?

Jared Hayley: 23:54

to mix in. Uh, so, first of all, know your word. You, you know so. So people that are like I I never been to seminary today, like it's kind of like going to college or going to the library Like you can, you can learn the same information. You know what I mean To a degree, I mean it's nice to have a teacher. So, uh, I would say, get in your word and find a good mentor that can invest in you. You, I would say, get in your word and find a good mentor that can invest in you.

Jared Hayley: 24:18

You know, those are two really important things Someone you can bounce ideas off and bounce questions off of. Not like a weird relationship where, like, there's accountability mentors or accountability partners Not necessarily that but find someone that you can trust spiritually, that you can bounce questions off or that they can. You know you can have conversations with about the Bible when you're, when you're having questions about it, you know. But really just reading and that's the beauty is is that Jesus left so that the Holy Spirit could come and so that he can teach us Right, and that's that's part of his responsibility to us as a believer is the Holy Spirit wants us to know his word and so tapping into that and recognizing that the Holy Spirit is in you and he wants you to understand the Bible. And so really, it's just getting over ourselves and getting over that pride and being intentional to get in there and read. And you know, I always, you know, I take five, 10 seconds before I read the Bible and I just say you know, lord, teach me, holy Spirit, teach me as I read, help for me, give me that understanding, give me that wisdom that is beyond me, so that I can understand your truth.

Jared Hayley: 25:33

As you start to understand truth now, that carries with you that, you know, the whole point of prayer is not, it's relational with God, to where you can ask him things and sure God can respond to those things, but a lot of prayer is being willing to allow God to transform you and transform yourself and transform your character. And so, as that is happening and you're going into the workplace, so now you have understanding of the word, you're bringing in the character of Jesus and there's going to be somewhat of things of being weird because I don't know how you can. I mean, you are going to stand out as a chocolate chip cookie because you're going to look different, but at the same time, it's bringing truth and having genuine conversations with people without feeling like you have to reference scripture all the time, like you can tell someone something that's true and you can tell them a story, especially based on your own experiences. People can't argue your experiences right. They can argue the Bible's not real and the Bible's not true. And so until God brings that revelation to somebody else, you speak truth to them.

Jared Hayley: 26:46

And so many times I've seen people share truth and they don't even realize that they're sharing scripture. And so for you to to share truth with someone and for them to have a positive response to that, and then for you to be able to go back later and say actually, I didn't come up with that, this is actually what God says in his word and this is why it works. You know what I mean? It's, it's almost, um, helping them to experience the truth of God without labeling it that, so that then, when they have a positive experience with it, you can say see, this is because God knows what he's talking about.

Chris Grainger: 27:24

Amen. So I mean I tell you guys I encourage them all the time that, look, no one can refute your testimony. Yeah, you know, like you said, man, they can debate what's in the scripture all day long, but you can't debate something that's happened in your life and how you saw God move. Nobody can go against that. So I'm curious too. You just sparked something in my brain I want to ask you about when you're reading God's Word and you're reading the parables and the teachings. You say connect your stories. Because people do connect with stories, particularly personal stories. Is that a practice we should try to be more intentional about? Maybe we're reading about the parable of the soul, or are we trying to think through how does that manifest in our lives? And if we wanted to share that story, would that just trying to think? Would that help, guys, be make that more intentional?

Jared Hayley: 28:10

absolutely I I think I mean guys, especially when we're working around other guys like it's weird for guys to go and like sit down and have coffee necessarily, or like hey let's have a let's have a guy date. But as we're walking and you're having conversations, I think if you are listening um to to what they're saying, uh, you're going to start hearing where they're at and you almost need to start with their story first. Sure at, and you almost need to start with their story first.

Jared Hayley: 28:40

Sure, like, hey, tell me your story Right, and then you find pieces that you relate to with your own story and then that can then connect to Jesus's story. You know it's all story, you know, I think it's it's, it's figuring out, kind of. It's almost like that order. You know what I mean. And at the same time, god can do what he wants to do. I mean, if the Holy Spirit is with you and he's telling you, hey, you need to go share this with that person, like you do it. You know what I mean. You're having that connection with the Holy Spirit who's leading us and guiding us, I think is the most important thing.

Jared Hayley: 29:16

Uh, I mean, if we look at Jesus's life, jesus was very intentional with where he went and who he talked to Um, and that was because he had that. He was one with the father and the father was telling him where to go and what to do. And so I think sometimes we put all of this pressure on our shoulders, feeling like, oh man, I gotta do. I gotta tell everybody everything you know. I got to do. I got to tell everybody everything you know, I got to be everything to everybody, and I just don't think that that's true. I think that if we're one with Jesus as Jesus is one with the Father and we have the Holy Spirit in us, the Holy Spirit is going to speak to us and tell us who we need to talk to, what we need to say, you know, and he's going to open up those doors of opportunity if we're paying attention.

Chris Grainger: 30:06

What about the man? You know the world we live in today and it's a very politically correct culture and it's a lot of different types of worldviews out there and some of these businesses you know. I talked to a gentleman uh day before yesterday and he's in a a fortune 500 company, very let's just say, very woke company, and he's like I'm struggling to really uh, to fit in and connect. I mean, and sometimes you can even be uh, you know you, you can face some persecution if you are too bold in your approach. Any advice, any tips, any recommendations for guys to find themselves in those situations?

Jared Hayley: 30:48

I mean honestly, at some point there's going to be a line drawn in the sand and we're going to have to decide where we stand. You know, I mean that's you know that all of the disciples had to make that choice right which side of the line are they going to stand on? And it resulted in their deaths, all of them but one, you know who was exiled. And so, as much as that sucks and I don't want that for anybody I do believe that at some point we have to face that reality that people aren't going to believe what we believe or where they're going to. We are going to have to face some some kind. You know the world is going to hate you because of me, like Jesus said that. And so when that happens, we have to recognize OK, well, jesus said this was going to happen and it's happening.

Jared Hayley: 31:44

Does that mean that we start treating people poorly because of it? No, does that mean that we break on our beliefs? No, I don't know. I mean I don't want to be in that situation and I don't want others to be in that situation. But if it arises, I mean I don't know that I have any advice other than you got to stick to your guns. You know you got to speak to biblical truth. You can't bend on it just for the sake of fitting in.

Chris Grainger: 32:12

Right. Well, I mean some of the stuff's, even now, you know you have, you know, certain months designated for certain rights and it's like some of these stuff. These guys get forced into it. I'm trying to give them encouragement to you know what, like you said, you know you can't hate the center, for sure. I mean we have to love, we have to leave with love, but but that's in, you know, we, you know we do not have to align with that, right, I mean, and and making sure that we are clear on our values. So I'm with you. For me, this is an area that I'm trying to think through, you know, kind of thinking through it on the air with you. Okay, if I'm a guy in a situation in a, in a woke corporation like that, what steps should can I take and when are the lines?

Jared Hayley: 32:55

at. The two things that come to mind as you're talking is number one is remember that your battle is not against flesh and blood, right, it's against the darkness and the evil principalities. So recognize that there's a spirit there. We'll call it a woke spirit, right, a spirit of wokeness which has its hold on people, Right, and it's blinding people.

Jared Hayley: 33:24

And I think of these, these people that Jesus spoke to, even Paul, where he had, you know, scales on his eyes that fell off and all of a sudden you could see, you know, and it's like God can do miraculous things in people. And Paul was like all about, I mean, he was trying to extinguish Christianity. Right, he wasn't just woke, he was like let's get rid of these people, you know, and let's kill them, actually put them to death. And you know, god was able to get a hold of him and transform him. So I would say, take heart that not all is lost. Recognize that it's a spiritual battle, not a battle of flesh and blood. So, as you're going in there like, put on the full armor before you go to work every day, get up and intentionally say, man, I'm going to put on the gospel of peace on my feet, I'm going to put on the breastplate of righteousness. I'm going to put on the helmet of salvation, I'm going to pull out my shield of faith so that when the woke people are throwing their lies at me, when the enemy is throwing the flames and lies at me, you know I'm protected from that. You know and I know the word. You know, I know God's word, which is the sword of the spirit. Right, like that is the thing that's going to cut through it all. And if you can speak to people God's truth, if you can speak his word to people, again, you don't have to say well, in Matthew 28, eight, it says you know, we can speak the truth and it can be normal conversation. I don't know, different people have differing views on the chosen, um, but something that they did really really well is incorporating scripture into normal conversation, right, where all of a sudden Jesus is talking and you're like, oh my gosh, he just said scripture, but it just sounded like normal conversation. They did that really really well.

Jared Hayley: 35:08

And I think if we can learn how to speak God's word and his truth and normal conversation in a way that's not weird, like that, that's, that's the sword man, that's what cuts through it. I just would encourage people to recognize in that space what's really going on. There's the reality that we're in, which is the flesh reality, but then there's also above it, simultaneously is happening that, that spiritual warfare that's going on, all of this stuff that's happening that we can't see, but it's actually probably more of a reality than even the reality that we're in. You know what I'm saying, yeah, and so I encourage guys be prayed up, make sure that sure that you've spent time with God to be ready to go into battle, put on that full armor and go on with the expectation that God is with you and that he can actually bring transformation to the people around you, and don't feel like you have to force it, but just know that God is with you and wait for the Holy Spirit to open up those opportunities and then just take advantage of those things.

Chris Grainger: 36:24

I love that man, I love that. Hey guys, we'll take a quick break. I find it helps me to have a guide at times when I'm reading, studying the Bible. When I'm reading and studying the Bible, one way that helps me is by using devotionals to guide not only what I read but insights into the scriptures themselves. So we were blessed to become an author on the YouVersion Bible app and we saw an immediate opportunity to help others with devotionals around the areas that we spend the most time talking about at the Lion Within Us. So if you enjoy the show, you may enjoy these devos as well. We have some guys that are using them as part of their small groups as well, as they're a great way to get conversations going. So to see the ones that we've created, head over to thelionwithinus slash uversion, and that's Y-O-U-V-E-R-S-I-O-N. To learn more. So that's the lionwithinus slash you version. To get started with your own men's devotional today.

Chris Grainger: 37:33

And I mean, jared, you're talking about, you know, putting on that armor, and I was thinking about this a few weeks ago I was teaching on this topic. I was thinking about I have a 17-month-old son. He's awesome, but he's little. He's growing. If I were to put on the armor on him. He wouldn't know what to do with it, he couldn't pick it up for a while. At some point though he would be able to use it.

Chris Grainger: 37:59

And I think there's so many times for guys man, we have the armor, we don't know how to use it. We definitely forget to put it on. Just give some encouragement. I think because I go back to the tip you talked about earlier about having that spiritual mentor that can help alongside, to kind of help you grow as a disciple, because I feel like we've lost the whole mindset of being a disciple. We just want to be Christian, check that box to get out of hell, versus being a disciple, walking with him every day, and just maybe speak to that about. Maybe you're not ready to go out to that battle by yourself right now, but maybe we need to be putting some practices in place so that we can put on that armor and actually utilize it, cause you think about like a Navy SEAL. You don't just, you know, show up on day one and all of a sudden you're a Navy SEAL. No, there's training that you go through, right?

Jared Hayley: 38:50

Yeah, I mean, you can certainly break it down. You know, we we actually do with our kids, uh, we put on the full armor every morning, like, okay, we have this little thing that we do, you know. And so you know, put the belt of, you know, we do the actions with them because they're young, right, belt of truth, right, you know, belt of truth. We put the belt of truth on around your waist, you know. And so we've talked to them. Okay, what is the belt of truth? Okay, uh, that that's god's truth, understanding that god's truth is going to look different than the world's truth, right, so we want God's truth on, that's, that's what we want to walk with, you know, put on the gospel of peace around our feet, you know, so we can, we're always ready to go spread God's word, to go evangelize and tell people about Jesus, right? So, you know, we break those things down. And when I was candidating to be a pastor, to be the senior pastor in Iowa, I went and I actually spoke on this very topic about believing in Jesus and being a disciple of Jesus and how it has crept into our culture that, as long as we prayed the prayer, we're good to go and we can go about our lives, and that's completely different than where Jesus said come and follow me, follow me is such an important piece to that, and it's not follow me, perfect and be perfect. It's saying where's the state of my heart? Is my heart, hey, I want to honor God and God is God? Or is the state of my heart like, hey, save me, but really I'm still God in my life? And so it's really two different camps that we can be in, and so, if we're following Jesus, it's so important to glean on the wisdom of those who have done it before us.

Jared Hayley: 40:33

Right, and so I think that's what you're speaking to is finding a good spiritual mentor, someone that you look up to and you say, man, I want to be like you when I get older. You know, I've looked at guys. Then I look at their families and their families have grown up and they all love the Lord and they're all in ministry now and I think, ok, how did you do that? Yeah, okay, how did you do that? Yeah, because I've seen other pastors and their kids grew up and they went crazy nutso and, you know, are far, far away from god. And I say crazy nutso, I just mean that they they've turned away from their faith. Oh yeah, and I'm like I don't want that for my kids. And so there are two people that I I talk to. It's not like I'm talking to them every month, but I talked to them regularly, um, and I'm able to ask them questions hey, how did you do this? Or how did you do that? Or you know, um, what was it that you did uniquely in your family that you feel like uh helped your kids grow up in an environment where, when they turned 18, they still loved Jesus and wanted to follow him and didn't want to rebel against him, you know, and so there's just so much value in learning from those who have done it.

Jared Hayley: 41:47

Right, right, and there are things in the Bible that don't speak to things that we have to deal with today. Right, there's nothing in the Bible that says how old should your kid be when they get a phone. Right, you're going to find that answer, you know, in scripture. And there's, you know, how do you? How do you deal with the idea of hey, there, there aren't two genders, there's 162, whatever it is. Whatever that number is right, like Scripture doesn't necessarily speak specifically to how to handle that situation.

Jared Hayley: 42:26

I mean, I think it speaks into the truth of that situation, but not, you know, you don't see that story playing out and okay, well, here's how Paul handled that.

Jared Hayley: 42:35

You know what I mean? Right? So how do we love that person that's struggling in that and still bring truth? So, finding other people that have more wisdom than I do and have more knowledge than I do, that I can glean from and learn from and walk with, and that I know are going to be faithful, to pray for me, and again, coming back to that reality that we're in a spiritual battle, someone that you know is going to not only give you practical advice but also give you, uh, that spiritual support that we need in order to go into battle. Um, and so you know, sometimes I would just say we have to be intentional to go find that, because it's not. I don't think that the, that person just magically shows up at a doorstep. I mean, god could bring them to your doorstep, but we have to be intentional to seek that out and to seek that, that person, that that we would, we trust and want to invest that time with. So there's an intentionality there.

Chris Grainger: 43:38

And that can be scary for some guys too. I find, man, sometimes I don't know about you, but a lot of churches they set up the life groups or Sunday school, whatever you want to call it right, and they're usually by certain demographics. And I'm telling you, man, I don't agree with it because I think a bunch of 20 and 30 year olds that are leading that are, that are meeting together with no counsel, that that's passed them in life, I think that's a recipe for disaster you know, and it's just something we should be guarded for.

Chris Grainger: 44:07

I'm not saying you shouldn't have your small group, don't misread what I'm saying, but I think you need to have some wisdom there to help rein some things in or at least be able to reach out to help rein some things in or at least be able to reach out.

Jared Hayley: 44:18

The way that I would speak into that, and I hope that maybe you have some older listeners that are listening to this, because this is really, really important.

Jared Hayley: 44:24

Young guys are always going to have a hard time reaching out to the older guys. Where we're failing is the older guys are not being intentional to reach out to the younger guys Like. This is a call out on them to be like look, you gotta quit being apathetic, you gotta quit being uh, lazy and you need to go find three guys that you can invest in. Right, you know, pray that god would give you the right people. And look, some of the guys that you reach out to are gonna turn your way, and that's okay. You go find somebody else. You find someone that's willing. But I've seen as a pastor in a church over and over and over again, these guys that are like nah, they don't want me, or they have all of these excuses about why they don't want to put the effort in to invest in the next generation, or that's the youth pastor's job, or that's the that's the pastor's job all of these different excuses, and I'm like you are hurting the church by not being intentional to invest in other people right, right, we can't.

Chris Grainger: 45:29

We somehow. I'm so glad you said that because we feel like we can outsource that and that is someone else's job, and just like it's not the pastor's job to lead my kids, like it's my job, you know, and we but we try to outsource that being a mentor. So I can't touch down on that point. You're right, and I mean, if you're further along in your walk, you need to be intentional intentional about being a mentor to others. So, uh, so glad you called that out man. Yeah, well, look, let's, uh, let's, let's as kind of wrap it up here what do you think is the hardest part? What's going to be the hardest part for? For being that, that guy who's honoring God in the secular workforce? What do you just maybe speak to? The hardest challenge that you think you see guys out there facing today? Yeah, long-term tenacity.

Jared Hayley: 46:15

Get wore out right. Yeah, that you're facing today, uh yeah, uh, long-term tenacity.

Chris Grainger: 46:20

You get wore out right.

Jared Hayley: 46:21

Yeah, yeah, you're going to get burned out. Um, you're going to get tired. Um, you're going to uh get worn down, um, by the world and the that that you're around it's. It's easier to just submit to the world around you than it is to stand up. And so, uh, that's the reality of uh needing, needing to be spiritually ready every day. Um, that's the reality of having healthy rhythms. Um, that's the reality of knowing your boundaries before you hit them.

Jared Hayley: 46:56

Um, you don't set healthy boundaries at work. Um, that's the reality of knowing your boundaries before you hit them, right, um, you don't set healthy boundaries at work. Um, when conversations go to a place, you're just going to slide right in with it, right, um? And so I used to work for a company, um, and it was marriage. Uh, it was healthy marriage, like prevention, care, it was like how to not get into trouble. It's called PrEP, great organization.

Jared Hayley: 47:21

But one of their three keys to a successful marriage is decide, don't slide. And so that means you're making conscious decisions and not just sliding into things. And so for us, as believers, when it comes to the workplace, we have to know where our boundaries are, and we need to decide on those boundaries before we're in the situations. So, if someone starts telling a nasty joke, we got to be ready and prepared to be like hey guys, I'm really I would I would prefer if you didn't speak like that around me and you know, or, uh, you know, deciding, hey, god has put this person on my heart.

Jared Hayley: 47:56

I've been praying for them. When God opens that up opportunity for me to speak, I'm going to have the courage and the boldness to speak, because I've already decided to. I'm not wishy-washy about it. So I think all of that stuff plays into it, you know, and all of these things play into long term success. Right, you know, we all I'm sure you say this all the time too Like, our faith journey is a marathon, not a sprint. All of it make it the long haul, um, you know, in order to fight the good fight and to finish the race strong, uh, all of these things play into, uh, being able to, to, to stay faithful, um, to the end, and that's the goal. That's what we're trying to, trying to land.

Chris Grainger: 48:51

Amen, brother, Amen Well, Jerry, before we wrap up. Amen, Well, Jerry. Before we wrap up, we always do a lightning round at the Lion Within us and we have a little fun. At the end we call it feeding time. You will play with this man.

Jared Hayley: 49:01

Yeah, let's play, man, I'm ready.

Chris Grainger: 49:07

All right, let's go. I got to get you know situated, I'm ready. Ok, there you go, brother, so let's we'll jump right in. What's your favorite hobby? What are you doing for fun?

Jared Hayley: 49:13

Oh man, right now it's kind of being on the worship team at church and just being a vocalist. For a long time I was in a band and things like that played guitar a lot, but it's really fun to just do that. Just have a microphone and that's it. You know, to be able to do that Outside of that, anything athletic you know. I like to play pickup basketball, I like to play pickup soccer, I like to play golf. Anything that's active, um and and competitive is is fun for me. Awesome, awesome.

Chris Grainger: 49:46

What about a super, a superpower? If you could have one superpower, what would it be, man? What would you do with it?

Jared Hayley: 49:51

Man, I would fly, uh. Only here's why. It's not because of anything else other than I hate traffic.

Chris Grainger: 49:57

That's it. Yeah, that's where I'm the furthest away from my spiritual journey is when I'm in traffic. Man, that's it.

Jared Hayley: 50:07

Absolutely, that's the word. I hate traffic.

Chris Grainger: 50:10

What about favorite food?

Jared Hayley: 50:13

Chicken.

Chris Grainger: 50:15

My man, we are cut from the same cloth. That's it. Any kind, that's it. What about favorite cartoon man? Any cartoons that you go back to? I grew up watching.

Jared Hayley: 50:28

Dragon Ball Z that was a big one for me and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles those are my two that I grew up with, alright, so who was your favorite?

Chris Grainger: 50:36

turtle man Donatello. Okay, so we definitely have to sit around Ninja Turtles those are my two that I grew up with, all right, so who was your favorite turtle man? Donatello, okay. So we definitely have to sit around and have a chicken sandwich and talk about Donatello man, cause that's it. Very few guys, ninja.

Jared Hayley: 50:47

Turtles secret of the ooze, the second movie. Yes, that's like my favorite version of Donatello, right version of Donatello. He was smart, he was funny. You know, I feel like in some of the newer ones they made him like way more nerdy and I was like you can be nerdy and still have a really good personality.

Chris Grainger: 51:04

That's right. That's right. I always connected with him, man. That was, that was my. It was never Raphael or Michelangelo, no, it was always Donatello. Yeah, so anyway, good stuff, good stuff. So, when you think about the last year, man, what did you spend too much time doing? Being on the phone, actually talking, or social media.

Jared Hayley: 51:25

Playing games. I got you.

Chris Grainger: 51:27

I got you.

Jared Hayley: 51:30

I'll tell you just so you don't get it. Don't get the game, man. What is it?

Chris Grainger: 51:38

Royal match Royal mash.

Jared Hayley: 51:39

That it's, it's, it's, it's it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's why that's the problem. Because I'm not engaged with them, I'm not present with them and so it's not fair to them for me to unwind and be on my phone. And same with my wife. It's not fair to her for me to be on the phone that much.

Chris Grainger: 52:10

Right, I'm with you. Yeah, called toon blast, that's that. That one yeah, so it doesn't get. No, I plug my ears so I don't hear that one. Yeah, yeah, no ads. But like, yeah, it's ridiculous how good I am at that game, but anyway. So, uh, what do you think about god man? What's your favorite thing about him?

Jared Hayley: 52:31

my favorite thing about god is that he is beyond the rules, um, and so I mean, he's definitely organized and in the rules. I just heard a fun the Transfiguration. Have you heard the theory on the Transfiguration? Uh-oh, this is really fun. I can't prove it by any means, so just take this with a grain of salt.

Jared Hayley: 52:53

But so when Jesus took James, peter and John up the mountain, and Jesus meets with Elijah and Moses on the mountain, remember now, elijah met with God on the mountain, moses met with God on the mountain. So the theory is that Jesus, at that moment, transcended all time and actually met with Moses and Elijah in their time, in real time, in real time, and so, and he was talking to them about the things to come, and so, like Moses now, remember, moses came down the mountain and his face was glowing because he was face to face with God. Maybe he was face to face with Jesus and the disciples were able to witness what was going on and were confused by it. All you know. But we think, oh well, maybe I used to think, well, moses and Elijah, they're just like in this purgatory state or whatever. Yeah, but what if he was actually meeting with them in their timeline Um, because God is outside of time. That's so cool.

Jared Hayley: 54:00

Yeah, Anyway sit with that one for a while, because I think it's awesome.

Chris Grainger: 54:03

I'm going to have to go sit underneath the tree and just think about that for a little bit.

Jared Hayley: 54:06

Yeah.

Chris Grainger: 54:08

So let's flip it 180. What's your least favorite thing about the evil one?

Jared Hayley: 54:11

About the evil one. Yeah, he's clever. I hate how smart and clever he is and, uh, that he knows the word better than I do and can manipulate it.

Chris Grainger: 54:24

Amen, amen, brother. Well, last one, jerry. What do you think? And that? What do you think? What do you hope? That the guys listening remember the most about our conversation today, man?

Jared Hayley: 54:34

um, I hope the things that they, I hope to remember that God is with them and that it's a spiritual battle and that God has promised to never leave them or forsake them and, no matter what their circumstance is, that they're there because God placed them there for a reason, that it's not an accident that you're in a difficult situation. It's not an accident that you live where you live where you live, that you are where you are and that God wants to use you where you are and that, uh, he recognizes the spiritual battle that's happening and that you're a spiritual warrior that he wants to build up to, to fight well, um, to be a part of that battle. So, please take that battle seriously and, uh, and go get them and reckon you got the victory, so run with it, enjoy the victory.

Chris Grainger: 55:26

Love it, love it. So, jared, where do you want the guys to go to connect?

Jared Hayley: 55:30

with you to learn more about what you're doing at Strong by Design or on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm not the only host. It's me and we have three other people that are hosts. We have Chris, who tackles a lot of our fitness related stuff. We have Tanya she's talking nutrition and health, and then Mike will talk about entrepreneurial and leadership stuff, and I'm talking about faith based stuff and we'll like do stuff together. You know we'll have other guests on and things like that.

Jared Hayley: 56:03

But, um, go to go check that out and and just know that it's going to be a mixed bag depending on who's hosting. You know you'll listen to me talk about spiritual rest and then you'll talk tanya's talking with the lady about how to deal with, you know, menopause, you know. So, whatever it might, you know. So I mean we're kind of all over the place, but, um, it's nice to have that wide spectrum of stuff. Um, if you want to connect with me personally, um, I'm on Facebook and Instagram. Jared's Aria um is the best place. You can hit me up there, follow me, or, or, or just send me something in the DM and I'm happy to. You know, talk and have any conversations that you want to have, but J-A-R-E-D-S-A-R-I-A, and Aria is a solo and an opera. And so in college I'm like, oh, jared's Aria, jared's solo, so that's where that comes from. It confuses people when I tell them Jared's Aria, but that's where that comes from.

Chris Grainger: 56:51

Nice brother. Thanks for sharing that. Guys Be sure to connect it out. Go check out the show notes for more information there as well. Jared anything else you want to share today, buddy?

Jared Hayley: 57:01

No, man, thank you so much for having me on. I hope that we get to continue to connect down the road.

Chris Grainger: 57:07

Amen, brother, you have a wonderful day you too. Are you a manager, solopreneur or business leader? Are you a manager, solopreneur or business leader? Are you a husband or father? Do you have people counting on you to guide and direct them personally and or professionally? Get the guidance and confidence you need at the Summit Leadership Development, an intensive, biblically-based mastermind group that transcends the boundaries of conventional leadership. Where there is no vision, the people perish. That's why we focus on the perfect, inerrant Word of God to become strong men and leaders in our business, home and community. Join other men who are ready to speak and embrace truth. Learn how to refine your approach and become a beacon of light in a dark world in all aspects of life. Our intentional monthly sessions will give you an accountability partner to dig deeper throughout the month. The summit is empowering leaders like you to amplify their influence in the workforce, home and community. Don't miss this opportunity to become a strong leader in a weak world. Secure your spot today at thelionwithinus slash leadership. That's thelionwithinus slash leadership. All right, guys, I told you that was gonna be a good one. So Jared is an awesome guy, so go check out his podcast by the time this drops. I'm not sure was going to be a good one. So Jared is an awesome guy, so go check out his podcast. I'm not, by the time this drops, I'm not sure if my episode will be out with him or not. We did a swap where he came on the line and I came on his show strong by design, so check it out. You can also go to our featured page on our podcast with on the website and you can see any of the shows that I've been on to share just encouraging word with others. So hopefully you guys enjoyed that one.

Chris Grainger: 58:58

The question I really want you to think about this week is how does the world identify you as a follower of Christ? And then here maybe is a little bit more personal, can they? Right? I know we're stepping all over toes, chris. Okay, I get it. Sometimes those toes need to be stepped on. Remember, if you get angry at a question, it may be the Holy Spirit, it may be conviction instead of anger. So just think about that for a second, okay. So hopefully you enjoyed something here with Jared. I mean great, great, practical tips here for sure. Apply them, simplify it, put it into your life, design it. Be intentional about it, okay.

Chris Grainger: 59:33

So head over to thelionwithinus that's the to the lion withinus that's the lion withinus for all our resources guys. The devotionals on YouVersion we have lots and lots of devotionals. I think close to 30 devotionals now. We're getting right there at 30, if it's not 30 yet, so just go check all those out in our community If you're, if you're feeling like you're disconnected, you're alone, or maybe you're just looking for some more resources to be a better leader, the Lion Within Us community start your 30-day free trial right now.

Chris Grainger: 1:00:00

Get plugged in. Come to our discipleship groups, come to our Bible studies, Come to our Lion Lunches, come to our daily spiritual kickoffs where we just give you a little bit of boost of God's Word. Monday through Friday, all that starts at thelionwithinus. Now for you business leaders out there who are trying to really take this topic, what we dug into today how to bring your faith into your career our Summit Leadership Development is for you. We built this program to help you grow to be the leader God intends you to be. This means you have to be that leader at work as well. You can't just be a leader at home. You know you got to be at and you can't just be a leader at work and not at home. You've got to bring it all together.

Chris Grainger: 1:00:37

We're going to help you do that. So again, thelionwithinus slash leadership. If you want to check any of that stuff out, alright, guys, give us a rating review. That would help Come back on Friday. Prayer for the good low willing. We'll be here with some good tips for you. We know we'll have a lot of fun on our fun Friday episodes.