[00:00:00] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Hello, my name is Nikki Toyama-Szeto. I'm the executive director of Christians for Social Action and your host for today's episode of 20 Minute Takes. Today, I talk with Dr. Ruth Padilla DeBorst and she talks to us about Christian witness and empire. And what it means to wrestle and reimagine what the gospel might look like lived out.
Join us for this conversation.
Ruth Padilla DeBorst thank you so much for joining us on this episode of 20 Minute Takes.
[00:00:55] Ruth Padilla DeBorst: I'm happy to be with you, Nikki.
[00:00:58] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: One of the things that I appreciate in your work with the networking team for INFEMIT is the hosting that you all do of the Stott-Bediako Forum. A couple of years ago that happened in Romania and I understand that that was very intentional and that this summer there's going to be another Stott-Bediako Forum happening in Colombia.
In 2022, one of the themes that the community engaged with was this idea of Jesus and Empire Christian witness in the context of power. And I understand that the choice of hosting this conversation in Romania was very intentional. Can you tell us a little bit about the choice of that theme? What led to the choice for that?
And what were some of the themes and insights that you think spring up from that conversation?
[00:01:42] Ruth Padilla DeBorst: Yes. So, so as an international fellowship for mission as transformation, we engage as theologian practitioners from around the world in deep analysis, critique, and reflection. constructive proposal around themes we see as essential to dig beyond the established Christendom models of doing theology, of living as a church in the world, of mission and such.
So, So these are all things we have to question, but also contribute alternatives to. And so thinking about Christian witness in context of power it's, it's one of the challenges that we all deal with around the world. And so in this case, we were in Romania, obviously a country marked by years of imperial communist rule, but also people coming from all kinds of other backgrounds.
You know, current Latin America still feeling the imperial hand of North America other places feeling the, the power and the, the question then is a lot of it has to do with what does it mean to be witnesses? Witness meaning not just going out and, and expounding on the four spiritual laws, but actually living as embodied
testimonies of God's good purposes that has to do with social ethics. It has to do with our lifestyle. It has to do with our priorities, with our values, with how we engage with power, precisely in this case. And so we had contributions from around the world, both brothers and sisters from, from Africa, from Asia, from Latin America, from the Middle East saying, okay, now, what does this really look like?
What questions come? What does it mean to, to think outside the bounds of Christendom and this, and this acritical allegiance between power and Christian faith that is so problematic. And so, yeah, so that's, that was, that was at the core of our questioning and, and questioning then what do we mean by Christian mission?
Do we, is, do we operate out of a paradigm of Christendom and colonizing and civilizing and Christianizing as so much of the efforts have been through the centuries? Or is there a different way of being in the world? That witnesses to God's way of being.
[00:04:12] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: And what were some of those alternative options of being that popped up in the midst of that discussion in the midst of the research?
[00:04:22] Ruth Padilla DeBorst: I guess there was, there was always that in some ways just the dissatisfaction is one first step is saying we are not going to settle for things as they are. And we have to envision, imagine and concretely embody alternatives. For us personally, Casa Adobe and our intentional Christian community is one of those expressions.
And then also thinking about alternative modes of theological education, what does it mean to form people's imagination for a different way of living in the world? What does it mean to exercise mission in as a non-colonialist mode of mission of being with people rather than for, or, or or against people in our mission endeavors.
And so contributions with, I would think in some ways, one of the biggest contributions of INFEMIT is allowing people to ask tough questions to engage with questions that maybe are not welcomed in more established settings. And out of those questions, then being willing to experiment with alternative ways of being.
[00:05:39] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Yeah, no, that's fantastic. I know one of the topics that I found very interesting that arose from that conversation was the very different views people had of neighboring. Cause I think this idea of like being a good neighbor, I think folks kind of sort of readily see the connection and just sort of scriptures and parables, but understanding some of the different ways in different countries and context, neighboring proximity those mean very, very different things. So that was, I think, fascinating to unpack a concept that I think has strong biblical resonance, but walk around it a little bit in different ways. I was also very struck with the power of story and, and this idea of healing and these healing journeys folks had in the context of Empire.
So yeah, I think those are some of the insights that sort of stuck with me.
[00:06:33] Ruth Padilla DeBorst: And just the beauty and the provocation of hearing people from very different regions, right? Being a global family that shares some of the same passions and, and searches but comes from different places and consequently has insights that are unique to their context.
[00:06:54] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Yeah, that's really true. I think as in our context for CSA, this North American context, there's a growing relationship with the media and truth that some of our brothers and sisters in Sri Lanka and in other communities of the world, they've been wrestling with that for a very, very long time.
So I think some of those, you know, Also side conversations can really sort of inform as different church communities are at different stages and different levels of experience. This year, I believe the theme is "Transformation Revisited: Mission and the Gospel Imagination." Did I get that right? Yes.
[00:07:30] Ruth Padilla DeBorst: Mission and gospel imagination. Yes.
[00:07:33] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: And is it Transformation Revisited or just Transformation? Yes.
[00:07:37] Ruth Padilla DeBorst: No, Revisited because we are celebrating a significant we've been around for several decades and transformation has been kind of one of the, the brands of INFEMIT. It's actually the name of the journal that has been published for, for decades.
And so in recognition of our history, we're saying, okay, what does it look like? To engage in, to advocate for, to, to live out transformation today. That's why transformation revisited
[00:08:07] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: And transformation in this context. Can you unpack what that means?
[00:08:10] Ruth Padilla DeBorst: Well, you better come to Medellín in July because that's what we're going to be doing unpacking.
What do we mean by transformation? Um, do we, you know, so often I think we can reduce. Christian mission to projects. We do this, we do that, we execute this. And so you have the whole business of development projects. And, but transformation is, is far broader, deeper, and has to do with who we are as God's people in God's world.
It has to do with how we live, what our values are. Are we enamored with consumerism? That ends up eating up not just resources, but also people because it's just part of the grind. Or, or, or do we dare question that? And that's why the gospel imagination, what is the imaginary that the gospel provides so that we can live alternatively in the midst of the pulls and tugs of our, of the current status quo?
[00:09:20] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: That's fantastic. So it sounds like it's really engaging and making space to ask questions about this old paradigm of transformation, which was sort of, we're coming into a community, we're transforming the community for the gospel. And it looks like this and this and this a church that's bigger a people that is happier growth that is numerical.
So it, it looks like it's taking some of these maybe narrow understandings of transformation and then asking making space for a new question. Is that is that a good?
[00:09:52] Ruth Padilla DeBorst: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, very much so.
[00:09:56] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: I appreciate that because I think in this context There's also a lot of rethinking of church and rethinking of what is evangelical mean and all these sort of things.
So Can you tell me a little bit more? About Christian imagination? Because I think some people get a little bit scared with that phrase, because does it just mean dreaming whatever you dream and then just letting go? Like, what is, what is particular or specific about Christian imagination?
[00:10:22] Ruth Padilla DeBorst: Well, we specifically did not put Christian imagination because there are all kinds of things Christians can imagine.
[00:10:28] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Gospel, sorry, gospel.
[00:10:28] Ruth Padilla DeBorst: Gospel imagination, very intentionally, because that is the proposal. We need to go back to the good news of God's good purposes of God's good creation of God's acts of salvation. We need to go back to the gospel, to the goodness of the gospel.
[00:10:47] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Yes.
[00:10:48] Ruth Padilla DeBorst: And that is what needs to nourish our imagination.
Not and again, it very intentionally contrasting with Christian or Christendom because too often those have been co-opted by the powers that be, by, by the context in which we live. And so we need to recast our imagination by, by steeping in, in the gospel and the good news of the gospel.
So. We don't just have papers. We have some, somebody bringing a biblical reflection out of the Old Testament, out of somebody else from the New Testament and a, and a closing one. So three Bible expositions that are kind of the backbone for nourishing a gospel imagination.
[00:11:37] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: That's fantastic. Cause I think what you're doing is you're just really rooting that in the gospel.
And, and that's where I think that engages with some of the things that people get concerned about, of like, doesn't it just become permission for anything? What are some of the themes that you are a little bit surprised are starting to come up from some of the community conversations in the lead up to this forum, or are there any people you are particularly interested to hear from?
[00:12:04] Ruth Padilla DeBorst: Yeah, yeah. So what's exciting to me again is the fact that we we have people from very different contexts and that so enriches the, the conversation and the opportunity to learn and be challenged. And so we have somebody like Shadia Qubti talking about how can we nourish this recasting, revisiting of transformation in light of the contributions of Native peoples.
In, in her case, she's been working on a conversation between Palestinian theology and First Nations theologizing in relation to the land in Canada. And so it's just beautiful to see, okay, what, what difference does it make to look through that other alternative lens? And then complimenting that we have a Bible study out of the New Testament and saying, okay, By another Palestinian, Tony Deik, who's going to be sharing about how alternative the living, the mode of life of the early church was in relation to Greco-Roman expectations of ethics.
Um, and so, rich, rich explorations in that sense. We have a kind of thinking of a fresh eschatology because some of our how we live today also has to do with our understanding of of what's to come of what the future is and we live in light of some of those expectations we also will be exploring art as kind of the language of imagination.
So we'll have some artists bringing in provocations, artistic provocations. What does it mean to refashion culture in light of our expectations of gospel of the gospel? So all of these are just rich, rich conversations. And the neat thing is we've, we have been kind of having some of these conversations as a warmup for the event.
And INFEMIT also has these circles that gather monthly. So some of the circles that are very inter-regional, inter-generational, inter-denominational, inter-everything. Are discussing some of these things. So, so in a way, the forum is not just an event. It's really a process. And of course there's the beauty of gathering in person and then later on online later in the year.
But but it is very much an ongoing conversation, provocation, questioning, exploration.
[00:14:54] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Yes. No, I love that. It is a process that you all are embodying and reflecting. What difference does it make that it's being hosted in Medellín, Colombia by that community?
[00:15:06] Ruth Padilla DeBorst: Well, so as the INFEMIT Networking team, we have very intentionally rotated regions because we want to be able to give opportunities to people from different regions that are probably have better access, less expensive to connect.
To move, you know, to attend. So we've had forums in you mentioned Arad that was in 2022, but we've been in Ghana, in Accra, Ghana, we've been in Seoul, we've been in Amman, we've been in Oxford so we've rotated regions very intentionally, and this is the first time we will be in Latin America. So this time it'll be absolutely bilingual.
We are investing in, in full on interpretation so that we can have participants from across Latin America, both contributing and, and listening in and they will be able to be fully integrated in the conversations. So Medellín is also rather symbolic. It's a significant city in Colombia where that was quite a significant a site for the gathering of the bishops, Roman Catholic bishops after Vatican II, where they kind of gathered to see, okay, what are the implications of Vatican II for Latin America?
So it's a symbolic city. It's also one that's more accessible and somewhat central to people from North and South of the Americas.
[00:16:35] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: Oh, that's fantastic. Well, I'm so excited for the conversation that you all are curating there. And I hope that you will come back and share with us some of what you are discovering about gospel imagination, about transformation revisited.
Ruth Padilla DeBorst, thank you so much for joining us on this episode of 20 Minute Takes.
[00:16:53] Ruth Padilla DeBorst: My privilege. Thank you, Nikki.
[00:17:01] Nikki Toyama-Szeto: 20 Minute Takes is a production of Christians for Social Action. Our music was created by Andre Henry, and this episode was mixed and engineered by Wiloza Media. If you liked this episode, spread the word by subscribing, reviewing, or sharing. I'm your host, Niki Toyama-Szeto. If you want to find out more about our work, visit the website at ChristiansForSocialAction.org.
