Flag Hunters Golf Podcast
Hello and welcome to Flaghunters ! It is a privilege to bring to you this powerful insight into playing better Golf. In all my years of being in the game of Golf from competing at a high amateur level, to caddying, teaching, and being a overall Golf geek, I have an insatiable, curiosity driven desire to get down to the bottom of what it takes to truly get better playing the game of Golf that we all unconditionally love. This has been one of the greatest journeys of my life and I am deeply grateful for all that Golf has given me. Thank you for joining me in this incredible journey. This is my ever evolving love letter to Golf. Jesse Perryman P.S. Please Rate, Review and Subscribe !
Flag Hunters Golf Podcast
From Tee to Tech: Gabriel Hjertstedt Journey Through Golf's Evolution and Innovative Coaching Techniques
Feel free to text me at (831)275-8804
Unlock the trade secrets of a golfing maestro with Swedish legend Gabriel Hjertstedt .As we sit down with the former PGA Tour pro turned ingenious coach, Gabriel maps out his extraordinary path through the world of golf, from teeing off as a young aspirant to coaching today’s rising stars. We zero in on Sweden's knack for producing top-tier golf talent, with Gabriel attributing this to the nation's accessible golfing landscape and nurturing club environment. His innovative contributions to golf equipment design, like the Surgeon Wedges, are not just products of his imagination but are deeply rooted in his extensive on-course experience and understanding of the game's nuances.
Feel the intensity of the mental game as Gabriel recalls the psychological stamina that's imperative for golfers to dominate the green. He sheds light on the Swedish Golf Federation's comprehensive support that sculpts exceptional players. Personal tales of triumph over adversity, discipline, and the impact of standout coaching styles unfold, spotlighting how a player can silence the cacophony of the crowd and rise to PGA Tour victory. It's a testament to the unwavering resolve and inner vision that guides a golfer to the pinnacle of success.
Step into the future of golf training with our exploration of Gabriel's groundbreaking training aids and his philosophy on keeping golf instruction simple yet effective. From addressing common misconceptions in coaching to dissecting the swing with an inventive four-tiered approach, we cover it all. Plus, get the scoop on the availability of Gabe Golf's innovative products, ensuring that you too can experience the cutting-edge of golfing technology. Join us for an episode that promises to elevate your understanding of the game and maybe even shave a few strokes off your handicap.
To reach Gabe easiest, go to www.gabegolf.com
To reach Justin, either email him, justin@elitegolfswing OR on Instagram @elitegolfswing
To reach Jesse, email is jesse@flaghuntersgolf.com OR Instagram @flaghuntersgolfpod
Once again, thank you to Taylor Made and Adidas for their incredible support.
Hello, this is Jesse Perryman, your host of the Fly Hunters Golf Podcast, bringing you another great addition. We want to thank you, alongside with my co-host, justin Tang, out of the Tanamera Golf Club in Singapore. We welcome you to another great addition. What's cool about this week and what's cool about what's going on right now in the world of teaching and learning? You've got some former players that are out there teaching. We've had Rick Farron, who's one out there on the PGA Tour. He's now teaching in the Seattle area, bradley Hughes, of course, john Erickson and several others, and Parker McLaughlin included.
Speaker 1:This week's guest is along the same shot and I think it's just really cool. His name's Gabe Yerdstedt, gabriel Yerdstedt. He's originally from Sweden, two-time winner on the PGA Tour, and now he is culminating his career and going into teaching and has been teaching for a little bit, and he is best known as being an absolute short game wizard. Gabe is a very interesting guy. This conversation was incredible. I'm not going to give it up here in this intro, but I do want to direct you to a few of ways that you can get ahold of Gabe and check out his website. One thing that a lot of people don't know about Gabe is he has his own wedge that he's designed. They're called the Surgeon Wedges and I have seen him and they're really cool. They look amazing and what's cool is you have a player that played at the highest level, that has won at the highest level, that has put his knowledge, his feel, his expertise into designing these wedges and they're really cool. You can find him easiest if you go to gabegolfcom it's all one word gabegolfcom. Gabe also has a speed training device and he also has a speed trainer and a golf trainer, a swing trainer that he has invented. I think it's cool when somebody who has achieved that level of mastery and they come back full circle, they teach what they know and they design clubs that just absolutely make sense. It's really cool, and Gabe is certainly a part of this. I think it's cool, on a personal note, that you have these guys all of them that have played at the highest level, have won at the highest level, had struck the ball in ways that we can only imagine us being amateur golfers, and they're coming back and they're teaching, through their graciousness and their generosity, all of the hard-earned knowledge that they've accrued out there playing on the various tours all over the world, and they're very battle-tested in these techniques and the equipment that they're providing or recommending or designing comes from the gauntlet of professional golf and being out there at the highest level. I think that's so cool and we are the beneficiaries of it.
Speaker 1:The conversation is cool. I'm not going to give it up too much here, but you can get ahold of Gabe, like I said, gabegolfcom. And you can get ahold of Justin, the easiest. You email him, justin, at elitegolfswing, and you can find me probably the easiest on Instagram at flaghunter'sgolfpod, and you can also email me, jesseathlaghunter'sgolfcom. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe and don't hesitate to reach out to either myself or Justin. If you want to hear somebody in particular or you want us to approach a subject that maybe we haven't thought about or anything like that, don't hesitate to reach out. You know we're here to streamline and get the best information out there as it relates to golf improvement and we're happy to do it and we're happy to talk about it and it is our honor.
Speaker 1:And we want to give Gabe a special shout out and a thank you for coming on. He's a busy man, he's teaching a lot and also he's teaching in Scottsdale. So if you're in the Scottsdale area and you want to book a one-on-one lesson with him. I think you could do that via the website. His website is easiest, and thanks for listening in advance and almost forgot. We want to give TaylorMain and Adidas a shout out for their incredible support and their continuance of putting great products out there. Cheers everybody and have a great week.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome again to another edition of the Flag Hunters Golf Podcast. I am your host, along with my co-host, justin Tang, from the Tanahara Golf Club In Singapore. We proudly bring you today our guest, and this man is pretty well known in the golf circles. His name is Gabriel Yertsted. He's from Sweden, playing on the PGA Tour, and is now a coach a very good coach, primarily around the short game, but he teaches all things primarily to juniors. He is now in the Scottsdale area and we welcome him. Thanks, gabe, for coming on, child.
Speaker 2:Thanks very much for having me Appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Thanks, Gabe. It's such an honor to have you on the podcast. As I mentioned, I started learning the game of golf in 1998, and that was when there was this massive Swedish invasion. But before we get there, can we talk a little bit about how you got into the game of golf?
Speaker 2:You know I kind of started late late for junior stand, it's around 10 years old and my dad introduced me to the game and I think the first time I swung at a ball I was addicted and obviously I sucked for the first three years playing junior events because I was a late bloomer. But you know, I took a few years and I started catching up and, you know, reached a late level at amateur golf and then turned professional from there.
Speaker 3:Why do you think Sweden is so overrepresented on the professional golf tours around the world, given its size and harsh weather?
Speaker 2:There's a couple of things. So one, golf is pretty cheap in Sweden. The access for people is, I mean, it's easier for kids to get access to golf. Second, the clubs. It's sort of they look at it more like other sports, like soccer or ice hockey or whatever they actually have they create inside the club. It's a lot of training. So all the young kids, they should get a lot of training there. You usually have training sessions two, three, four times a week during the season, so and they end up getting good coaching. Plus, I think that if you look at the sports that they play, they play ice hockey, they play soccer and they're very eye coordinated sports. So what happens is you have these young kids that obviously have really good hand eye coordination and you move them into golf. But I think that access to golf is very different than if, you say, the US or where you are in Singapore it's hard to get access to golf. So indoor facilities, just a lot of good coaching.
Speaker 3:I feel like so what you're saying is this right you need access to the field of play as well as to good coaches, and I think the issue with a lot of modern day juniors is that they tend to specialize too early, and that's where the benefit of being a multi sport athlete comes in the play.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. And I think that's what you'll see is like, because part of the part of the deal is the strength building and obviously the coordination. But I feel like those sports really develop, especially ice hockey develop very good muscles for golf, kind of like baseball wooden wooden. In the US it's slightly different. And then you look at Australia, because my parents moved down to Australia when I was 10 years old, 10, 11 years old and the same sort of thing. There was very cheap for golf that the parents didn't need to be members for you to have a junior membership. So again, that's why Australia produces good players is because there's more access.
Speaker 3:So there's this paradigm in modern coaching where you've got to practice in the field of play to become good. So practice makes perfect, but it must be representative of what you're actually trying to do in competition. Could you talk a little bit about what training is like during the winter season in Sweden that helps these golfers achieve such good results?
Speaker 2:I think what you have in the wintertime you have a lot of indoor practice, a lot of technique practice, so maybe they start taking breaking down a little bit, improving their swings, improving their techniques, doing more physical training. So I think that's where you have a little bit of an off season and then they start going into the season. So it still comes down to and listen, if you go to a Swedish golf club some of the better ones you'll have a lot of juniors practicing together. So what you have is kids pushing those kids, so people pushing themselves. So, anyway, where you get a lot of juniors together, even if the coaching is mediocre, you'll produce good players because they end up sparring against each other.
Speaker 2:So it's about creating the environment for these kids to thrive. Whether it's if I look at Australia, where I grew up from 11 to 18, it's like I still went over and played the Swedish national team, but every weekend there was competition within a two hour radius of what we lived. And I see, if you look at LA, for example, here in California, so you have within two hours there's multiple junior events every weekend. So these kids get to spar against each other at an early age and this is where you start seeing massive improvements with these kids, and plus they become better competitors, able to handle the pressure and all that stuff.
Speaker 3:So what you're saying is train them from young. So, despite the curriculum differences perhaps in Australia and Sweden, what's similar is the exposure to competition at an early age.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and I always say might you just play as much as you can, because it's like now, competition is more important than a lot of other things. Don't try to perfect it too early. You're going to perfect it as you go, but competing and learning how to score is more important.
Speaker 3:So you were the first sweet to win on the PGA Tour, and then twice with the BC Open and the Touchstone Energy Tucson Open. What was the path you took to getting to the top of the golfing world? And you played in all four majors.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think one of the things is, you know, at a pretty early age I mean I had a different upbringing I stopped, I left school at 16. So after grade 10, I left school and I said to my parents I said I want to be a golfer, so I want you to drop me off at the golf club first light and pick me up when it's dark. And that was my for two years. That's really what I did and you know I wouldn't recommend that to other kids, but I was very. I had plan A. I had one plan. It was plan A to be a professional golfer and and I had some good success. You know, when the European boys at 16, I won the Doug Sanders Walsh Jr at 17. And then I was on the winning ice and heart trophy team at 18. And then, you know, I went to my coach at the time, charlie Irb, who is the same coach as Greg Norman. So and I said to Charlie, I said, after I was on the winning ice and heart trophy team, I said Charlie, and I was very nervous going up to him because I was, I wanted to tell him I was going to turn pro and so I was hoping for his, you know, for his blessing on that. So, as I said to Charlie, I said you know, I want to turn pro and he said you know what? I make money flat and I said, no, so you can stack it. So he said, go and stack it. But I think what's what's important about that is like I had a coach, you know, because many people, many coaches, could have said, listen, it's too early, you're only 18, you know, wait a couple of years or whatever. But he encouraged me to go and gave me the belief and I went out and got rookie of the year on the Australian tour that's back then when you can Monday qualify and stuff. And I just went.
Speaker 2:So from there I played the Australian tour, japanese tour, european tour. So you know, when I was 21, I was ranked like, I think, like 112 in the world or something like that and but then I got injured, so I had, you know, two years of crap. And then I came over to the US and did the tour school and somehow got through with a 20 yard slice, but at least I know where it's going. So, and then, you know, I just went from there. But you know, I feel like I left a lot out there on the table because I've had several injuries and stuff, so but, but the main thing is I worked most people, so that's really what it was. And I think a lot of people say you know, practice smart. Yes, practice volume. Because the volume really you watch every good player that's got volume. They all, they all beat other players.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's kind of like in bodybuilding and the other Olympic sports. Yeah, you could change smart, but at the end of the day it's about total volume. Right Like Arnold.
Speaker 2:Schenning yeah, yeah, he trained six hours a day and other people would say, well, that's too much, but he was the best.
Speaker 3:You know, there's this old thing there's no such thing as overtraining, only under eating.
Speaker 2:I like that. I like that.
Speaker 3:So you were part of the initial Swedish invasion to the US with Jesper Panavik, Patrick Sholan and Jarmus Sandelin, whom I recall you partnered with in the Dunhill World Cup. Yes, yes, what was it like to be part of that era, that historic era. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I mean it was interesting because you know, you didn't really. You know, I don't know if you thought about it that way, because the goal was to get to the US, the goal was to win tournaments, the goal was to play majors or win majors. I mean that's really what you thought about. So I think the vision was so clear and focused that going along that process just seemed normal, you know. And one of the things is like, you know, being competitive, it's like it's weird because it's like you're just normal. And then you get onto the golf course and there's like a switch that goes off in your head, like you become more primal than anything else. But it's like.
Speaker 2:That was the part that I think I liked. I liked the preparation a lot. You know, I loved the preparation for events, but I think the path going there was never a doubt. That's really what I think it was like. It was a clear path to where I wanted to go. Obviously, there's a lot of hiccups in the way. There was a lot of. You know, playing this game for a living can beat the shit out of you, so it's like. But then you end up coming back.
Speaker 3:So the Swedish Golf Federation has done a fantastic job of nurturing players to the professional ranks. You know a guy by the name of Gunnar Muller. Gunnar Muller, yeah, yeah, I remember that name. Was he your, I guess, national coach when you were in the team?
Speaker 2:No, I had a. Well, I don't know. We had several coaches and I'm trying to think who it was. But you know, I think what it was was like it was very professionally run from. I think they just pulled from other sports, you know. So it was like the same sort of training as other sports. And you know they paid for all the trips and they paid for all the stuff. You know, so it's like didn't matter. You know what background you had. If you're if you're a good golfer, you could go and experience all these things. And you know, traveling on the Swedish team was great. You know it was a little bit of a. You know I didn't really fit the mold of falling directions too well, but it's off to my own stuff. But I feel like they gave everyone very good exposure to, to high quality training. And you see it now. I mean this generation that's coming out now, with or Berg coming out. I mean he's a super story, you know, it's really fun to watch.
Speaker 3:Another guy that I know of, hendrik Lindquist, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Hendrik Lindquist, yeah.
Speaker 3:He was also a part of that transformation. Yeah, I could use that word. What was the instructional philosophy back then, besides being inclusive?
Speaker 2:I think that worked a lot on the, the physique, the mental, the food intake, you know things like that, which I think they you know. Obviously, if you look at now, there's a lot of it was wrong, but they made you believe like it was the right stuff and I feel like the coaching now has obviously gotten even better. But they had had good, solid coaches and I think the coaches that they had went and started a lot under the US whatever the best coaches of the US were at the time. But you know, I think everyone there still had individual coaches that they relied more on. So but now it was an incredible, incredible program and I think it went away for a long period of time. Now it's come back. But also back in the early nine is Sweden had a very good tour, the Swedish tour, so I played on that for a while too. They had probably 18 events. You drive to all events and play, so it was a pretty good deal.
Speaker 3:You said you did your thing differently when you were on the national team. What were some of these different things that you did?
Speaker 2:They would do workouts and I wouldn't. They would get a bed early and I wouldn't. That was like yeah.
Speaker 3:So nothing technical then.
Speaker 2:No, nothing technical, it was more. You know, if you've got to look at the Swedish system, it's very systematic, even from school. But I never fit that mold.
Speaker 3:So like you care for nature. Yeah, exactly, step two, step three.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I wouldn't read the instructions, I would just go.
Speaker 3:Well, maybe that's why you're the first Swedish professional player to win on the PGA tour.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's what happens too, is because you don't care what other people think. You know, and I think that's one of the biggest things. It's like you know you get. I think you try to find your own stuff, be creative, and if someone doesn't like it, it doesn't really bother you, you just carry on. And I think you see a lot of athletes do that. It's like they do their own thing. It's like you know Michael Jordan the way he practiced it, or you know a lot of these other guys. They overdo it. You know, when other people said, listen, let's go home, I'd go another two hours, you know. So that's, that's the little extra, I think, and maybe it doesn't help you that much, but it helps you mentally when you, when you come down the stretch or you're trying to make a cut or trying to keep your tour card or whatever it is, that you know gives you that confidence.
Speaker 3:So can we talk a little bit about Charlie and his instructional philosophy, what you guys did in your formative years.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Charlie obviously worked with Greg Normans. I got a lot of good insights. So back when I was I started working with Charlie when I was 13 years old and the first thing he said hit it as hard as you can, hit it as far as you can every single time. And back then that was like unheard of, because people you know in the 80s they say swing smooth.
Speaker 2:But obviously he'd come out on the golf course and say, listen, greg Normans can drive this green here. So it puts you in this like you're coming up way short. So you got to be like, okay, I got to, I got to hit it hard. So I learned to hit it far. You know and for I'm not very you know 160 pounds, but even today at you know 162 and I'm 52 years old, I can still hit it 120 miles an hour. You know club at speed. So it's like he taught me how to hit it a long way. And you know swing mechanics might not have been great but you know it, they were good enough. You know big extension on the back swing, big turn looked a little crazy but you know it's still very good.
Speaker 3:Did he influence you much on your short game philosophy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot. They just taught really what you know and you got to think about it. Growing up in Australia was very tight grass so it was a little steeper. You know you'd get a little steeper and you know you can be a little bit more aggressive down on the ball. You know when you came to soft conditions you'd take massive divots and you wouldn't realize why. But you know that's, that's really what it was. So growing up on bad condition golf, of course I think it teaches that a chip better.
Speaker 3:So, as you transition from a 12 player to being a golf instructor, what was it that made you focus on the short game?
Speaker 2:It was interesting because I stopped playing because I had a bad injury in 2008. Well, I'd actually played with it for like five years. I had a big tear in my bleak. So anyway, when I stopped playing, I started, you know, just teaching regular people and I'd still get on practice a little bit. So a couple of the pros said you know, can you help me out with my chipping? Because I was always a good chipper.
Speaker 2:So, you know, I started helping them out a little bit and before I know it, I had like four or five players that I was working with and you know I really enjoyed it. So I was, you know it was with Kevin Chappell, kevin Kisner and Graham Dillet, colt Nost, kevin Struelman. I had a bunch of guys, you know. So I was and you know that was going good for four or five years. And then I got sick of the traveling, being out there and figured maybe I'd play some senior golf and start practicing a little bit and just staying home teaching.
Speaker 2:But you know, now I'm back out there working with some guys again and I really enjoy it. I mean, I enjoy the teaching, but a lot of it's because I'm at the golf course, I'm in the game. I'm helping with the strategizing on the golf course. So even though I'm a short game coach, I'm still. I've played a lot of these golf courses and so you can strategize for the player and come up with good game plans and things like that. So you know, working as a team, together with the caddy and the swing coach and whatever whoever else they have.
Speaker 3:You give them dietary advice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, they look at me the way I eat, so they always. I'm pretty good. I'm pretty good at the diet and working out, so I try to set that influence on all the kids, you know. So it's, it's. I can take most of the kids in the gym.
Speaker 3:So you know you talked about your 120 mile per hour club head speed. Do some of your players ask you for tips on how to hit that?
Speaker 2:further. The juniors do. Obviously the players they're pretty good. I mean, justin Sar Cruz is a 120. Oh yeah, and but Chris Gutter up that I'm working with now, he's at 126. So that's his crew speed, so it's like the other one. This morning it flew at 345. You know, it's like it's good, but a lot of the juniors, but a lot of it has to do with strength. I mean you have to be strong enough to slow the club down. Yeah so, but you know it's swing hard. That's what it is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so let's expose our listeners to your number system. Can you talk a little bit about how it was developed and go into some detail about how they could use it to improve their short game?
Speaker 2:Like the one, two and three, yeah, yeah so. Yeah, it was interesting, and I even use this with the tour players. So if I look at the number one, which is a lower shot, to say we're using a low bridge but we've got a lower shot, so with a low shot, obviously I'm putting it anywhere from the middle of my stance back Okay, so middle of the stance back with a square face, would be a number one. If it goes five yards or 50 yards is the same shot. And number two would be middle of the stance forwards, all the way up to the left toe, which would be a number two. And whether I open the face or whatever, you know, I'm driving forwards on the shots and they're always leading with the hands on number ones and twos.
Speaker 2:And then the number three is the flop shot, which is long, to long so, and really what it helps, even like the average guy and even some mature plays is a one. So all of a sudden it just pulls on ball position and the shot, and it's been a simple way to sort of teach both professionals and and to replace. So there's actually a number four as well. So that's, that's a fast, that's a fast number three so, which is a long to long. So a number three would be a long to long swing with the weight on the left foot. And then number four is long to long weight on the right foot with a fast swing.
Speaker 3:So what do people misunderstand about tool coaching? A lot of the non professionals that I speak to have this idea that we, when we teach to players, it's very complicated stuff. In reality, it's quite the opposite.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very much, because you have to give this simple.
Speaker 3:So what's, what's a typical week like for you out out there? So, for example, let's say to a player that issues with the, say, distance control, for example, or the issues with the trajectory of spin, what's your process when diagnosing these errands?
Speaker 2:There can be several different things the tempo of the swing sometimes. So what you have is, if you think about, like so, you want to have a low smash factor, right? So for example, if you, if so the tempo of the swing, the back swing really sets up the speed of the chip. So I'm never really like too much accelerating through the shot, I like to keep constant speed through the shot. But it's at that level is diagnosing.
Speaker 2:You start knowing the player. For example, like a bow hustler gets a little inside to hooky right, chris gutter ups, the opposite, it gets too cuddly. Justin Sa tends to back up out of it. So it's like it's little things that you always that you always try to work around. So but you know, I know all this stuff. Now, when I, when I go to a new player, I run them around the green maybe for 30, 40 minutes, look at all their shots, and then after that I sort of get to decide. You know, sort of start looking at what is it that he needs, where's he missing, and then you start analyzing it from there. Same with a regular amateur player. When I've never seen anyone before, I normally watch them for like 15, 20 minutes.
Speaker 3:So the thing you mentioned about smash factor, that's really interesting and seldom talked about.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:What's your ideal smash factor? Obviously, for different shots you require different smash factors, given you want to try to match or speed, spin and trajectory, but playing, playing vanilla. What kind of smash factor are you looking for?
Speaker 2:A square phase, regular chip shot, say, we'll talk a 15 yard chip shot, square phase, probably 0.90, with a square phase open phase, from that same distance, anything from 0.62 to 0.80. So very low smash factors, super low actually. So and that's how you optimize the spin. Obviously, when the phase is open you can you can have more friction, so dead in the shot, even more so. And that's why you want to have chip with an open face and and get that dialed in like that.
Speaker 3:Are you an advocate of using different parts of the face to achieve the desired smash factor?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do a lot of chip off the toes. So I mean Sevvy one time told me that he hits it between the second and third grooves on the toes. I figured that's a good place to start.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's probably too much for the average Joe that you're teaching. Yeah, yeah, there's this picture circling the internet of Fred couple's 60 degree wedge. Yeah, a one out spot on the low low toe.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and that's really where every single good chip or hits from.
Speaker 3:Okay, I like to talk about your inventions. Yeah, you have the swing trainer and the swing pipe. So what brought you into the invention business and can you talk a little bit about these two products?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I got the swing trainer and the speed pipe. So the swing trainer was really like. I was just sitting at home one day and I thought about it. I thought this seems I wonder if this would help my swing, so I made it. I made it when I made. One wasn't very good, but I made when.
Speaker 2:I got one made, made it and I thought you know what? I've never seen this thing before anywhere. So then 30 minutes later I called a good friend of mine. I said do you know a good patent lawyer in town? He said yeah, yeah, I know someone said an hour later, after my invention in my head, I was down at the patent office and I had him draw up the patent for these two devices, wrote him a check for $10,000. And then I hoped that that was good and sure enough. Like six months later, you know, I got a patent for these devices and then I started producing them and I think that you know the swing trainer is obviously very simple Got some marbles, got a few couple of stoppers inside the shaft, I've got a, you know, a diameter shaft, that's that allows the marbles to go up, and down.
Speaker 2:But I have, like Gary Woodland uses it all the time, you got Charlie Hoffman uses it all the time. So I've got like probably five or six PGA tour players that use it. Tiger's coach, chris Como he ordered three of them at one point when he was working with Tiger, so I'm sure Tiger has ripped a few with it, because that's the drill that he hates the most. And then the speed pipe is that's something that I use on a daily basis. It's a pipe with an adjustable magnet inside that I can change the pressure. So I can I can move the magnet up and down inside the shaft to make it harder to swing it, and that's what I do. So that's why I can still keep my speed up.
Speaker 2:And then you know, and the speed pipe I don't sell very many of because it's too expensive. It's too expensive to make because I wanted to make it like I wanted it to, so I had to use airplane grade aluminum for the pipe and it's ridiculously expensive. So even at $250, I don't make much profit on it. So but that's like that's where I look at stuff. I want it to be made right and I'd rather have it do right and know that it's a good product instead of making something cheap and sell it.
Speaker 3:Are there swing trainer marbles, also airplane grade marbles.
Speaker 2:They're pretty, pretty, pretty stout marbles. They're expensive, little guys.
Speaker 3:So what made you get into this invention business, was it? Just born out of a desire to help your students.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a little bit of like I don't know, just have a go, you try it. And I mean it's like, it's weird. Like you bring a product like my swing trainer with the marbles out on the range and you got tour players there and you ask someone to try it and you don't know what they're going to say. They might say this sucks, or you know what I like this. But the difference is it's like my club it was a forged clubhead.
Speaker 2:The shaft is top of the line shaft, you know. So it's like they start hitting and say what is this shaft? What do I? How do I get this shaft? So it's like. So I kind of knew there, like and that's how it sort of started, because it was such high quality that a tour player could pick it up and hit it and actually think it was a good, cool, cool product. The speed pipe is great for older players, older than 50, they love using it because they pick up a few yards, normally within five minutes. I can have them gain four miles an hour or so.
Speaker 3:It works great and the speed pipe is very different from the over speed training devices that we see in the market because it forces you to engage in centrifugal acceleration.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:And then something that a lot of players sorry, a lot of amateur golfers don't do is trying to use their body instead of using their arms, where ski discreet is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly that's what a lot of people don't realize. There's so much speed in the arms. You know, if I do a body swing, I can swing it maybe max it 114. If I do an arm swing, I can get it up to 121, no problem. So it's like it's one of those deals. But I think that teaches you to actually get your arms accelerating and really teaches it to release the club properly. And because I was able to get it at 540 grams that's the weight of the pipe, which is for what it is it's very light and so it doesn't put too much burden on you on the way through either, because some of these devices, when you start swinging heavy stuff, you have to be very careful because something has to stop it and you see a lot of people hurting themselves. Plus, if something's going down the barrel, it's like a release mechanism, the same as you feel, very similar to hitting a golf ball.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think with the current crop of over speed devices, a lot of people try to swing it around them. Yeah, that's a great way to injure your thoracic spine.
Speaker 2:No, no it's crazy because you're not going to. I mean, think about it If you're swinging, you're hitting something.
Speaker 3:These people are swinging without hitting anything, and that's where the pipe is good, because it feels like you're hitting something, so it gives you a little bit of a, and from my experience with some players, the speed increases that they gain with the over speed devices doesn't carry over on the golf course.
Speaker 2:No, not at all.
Speaker 3:Because you're not going to swing like a caveman when you're on the first tee box.
Speaker 2:No, no, exactly, and that's why you see, like Adam Scott, swinging smooth and still able to get it 121, 22, because he's able to bring the speed at the right points.
Speaker 3:So when I was watching you in the late 90s, early 2000s, you were one of the rare guys to be rocking a ping beryllium copper head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I love those clubs. I had those. I played beryllium copper my whole career. And most interesting was I had like six sets at home and I took them down to ping and I said can you just put these together and refurbish and make me two nice sets? I never saw those clubs again.
Speaker 3:But I'm sure they gave you two copper. But, as golf, go play with this yeah.
Speaker 2:I got four in there, I got for the wins and a couple other things. So it's pretty funny. But it's like, yeah, they took the clubs and they said I said they're lost, We've lost.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, they just down the road from where you are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's crazy so.
Speaker 3:I want to talk about the surgeon 6102. Let's talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 3:So, for the benefit of our listeners, tony Fina, adam Scott and Justin Rose have tested and given it the thumbs up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and Tony Fina is actually playing it right now. He's been playing it all season. So what's interesting with this? I had someone come to me and wanted to design a wedge and I just said I thought to myself, let's just do it myself. And when I started this project, obviously I looked, I knew what I wanted. I knew what I wanted and there was a few wedges that I played in my career that I felt like these are really great wedges. But then my main goal was to say, ok, if I had to play a wedge around Augusta, how would it feel? What would I want? Because that's where it's based on, because I feel like if you can chip around Augusta which is very difficult to technical you can bring that club anywhere.
Speaker 2:So when I started I knew that I wanted a little bit bigger face. I wanted a leading edge. That was so I've shaved a little leading edge bounce on here. I've got all the weights that have come set onto the toe, so there's a lot more weight in the toe, so that brings the CG from the heel more into the middle, so it helps you hit full shots a lot better. And then also you know nine degrees of bounce, which I feel like is a neutral bounce for a good player.
Speaker 2:And you know, I just tweaked it a little bit. I took a head and grinded it and I sent it to some engineers to sort of fix up, took it back a few times, went backwards and forwards and finally had a plastic copy that I felt looked good. I was hoping that was going to be good and I actually made two heads. And when I got the two heads to try, when I got to the 61.09, I hit some chips with this and right away I knew I had a winner, because it was like it was coming off perfect every single time and I was able to hit all the shots with it. And then the big test was to go from the fairway to the bunker, because I felt like I've got a winning club, a prey, that it works in the bunker. And I got into the bunker and I had great shots with it right away.
Speaker 2:So you know and I think the difference too is like being a really good wedge player I can understand how the design needs to be to be able to work in the conditions. So you know this. This club is, you know, without any grinding anything. You know, tour play can pick this up and amateur can pick it up and then going to enjoy it. So a lot of the times when I do clinics, I have them compare their wedge to this wedge and it takes literally three, four minutes and they said, all right, I'll have one of those. So just the quality of the builders, it's a little. And again, it's an expensive club. It cost me a lot of money to make the club, but I'd rather build something that that I want to use for a long time than something cheap.
Speaker 3:What about sheep? What do you like in a good wedge? I feel, like I want to see.
Speaker 2:I want to see a little bit of offset, like Bernard Lange looked at this wedge and he loved it, but he wants to see even more offset. So I tried to bend it as far as I could, but he needs a little bit more than than what I've got. So but I have a little bit of offset. It just feels like you can lead with the hands a little bit more, and I'm a big believer leading with the hands through wedge shots or chip shots, a bigger head. You know I went with mini grooves, that my grooves are like super, super small.
Speaker 2:But, and the reason for the mini grooves is when it's wet outside you still retain a little bit of spin out of the rough. It's not going to jump as much, it'll grab a little bit as well. And you know when a club is dry it doesn't really matter, it's going to spin pretty much. They all spin pretty similar. But and then with the mill grooves I'm able to take it to the limit. The USGA limit the way I mill it. So you know it's right on the edge of of. You know where it should be Now when I'm. When the USGA came back to me they said it's right on the edge and I said great. So and you know it's, it's it really. Listen, I could tweak it a little bit more and stuff, but it works great, so don't mess with it if something works.
Speaker 3:So you know. You talked about horizontal center of gravity, where you moved it from the heel to the middle of the face. Yeah, you can't get it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You can't get it all the way to the middle of the face, you know, because there's too much mass. But I'm able to get it a lot further than other wedges and you know being so a lot of the wedges today they add weight at the top of the head you know, but my, my head is longer, so my, my, the actual size from the bottom up is a lot longer than most people.
Speaker 2:So I gained the weight that way over there and it's a lot longer this way as well, you know. So it's, it's a pretty, it's a pretty big head. But you know, knowing what I wanted, like that's why, when I played the Ping-Ai 2 wedge head, that was a big head. So a lot of the times out of the rough you might hit it up there as you come underneath and stuff. So, and being a big head, I'm able to get it more down on the toe and toe bounce when I want to use it that way as well. So, or that mean the length of the head.
Speaker 3:Well, it doesn't have the Ping-Ai 2 offset for sure.
Speaker 2:No, exactly, but it has a little offset. And you know what's crazy is like today's kids or today's young players, they want less offset. And you talk to the old time, as they all want more offset. So it's a little bit, little bit strange.
Speaker 3:Do you think it's a result of the cost conditions and green conditions?
Speaker 2:You know, it's a lot tighter today than what it used to be when we played.
Speaker 2:So I mean it's like and you know you look at like I was watching Sam Burns today chipping a little bit. He was out with Scottish Shelfler and I watched. But you look at their wedges. They have like four degrees of balance. You know five degrees of balance, but that's in tight conditions. I mean it's the only way that you can lay the club and look at it and make sure it's going to get underneath. So if you got a, if you got like country club grass, it's a big difference, but out here it's really cut tight.
Speaker 3:What about line angle of your clubs? Do you prefer more upright or flannel angle? Fish for your wedges.
Speaker 2:The wedges? It depends. I don't mind being like just a standard lie, because when I, you know, if I get a little closer to it, I want it to. You know, lean down a little bit. I play mine one degree flat, but it's all that is. So individual, you know it really is, but I'd rather have my heel off the ground a little bit than digging down that way.
Speaker 3:What about shot? How do you advise your players? And shafts?
Speaker 2:So in the lob wedge definitely go softer. So what I do in my lob wedges I put an eight-iron shaft in and that's really what they used to do back in the day. So because I didn't have wedge shafts, you know, you just took an eight-iron shaft or a seven-iron shaft and put in there. So it's got a little bit of softness. And because you're operating at slow speeds all the time, I think it's great, you know, if it's very rarely hitting it flat out with a lob wedge anyway. So a little bit of softness in the shaft is very important.
Speaker 3:So what does a good wedge shot from, say, 50 to 100 yards look like the so-called distance wedge? What are you trying to get your players to do from that distance?
Speaker 2:It depends I mean. So if it's a back flag, obviously you want to fly it up, skip it up to the flag. For a front flag, you're playing more like a flop shot from that distance. So it's a little bit. You know, I encourage my players a lot to you know switch, you know trajectories all the time and even go into hook trajectories depending on the shot. But most guys will hit a fade from that distance just because it's easy to control and we're always playing around with the trajectories and depends what you're playing Like. You're playing on these PGA2 of greens. It's so firm that sometimes you have to hit it high just to stop it on the green.
Speaker 3:So let's move to practice tips. How can our listeners practice to get better?
Speaker 2:Make sure you don't practice with range balls, practice with the same balls. You play, clean your club after every couple of shots, I think you know you grab four or five balls and you go around in different shots. You know a lot of people will drop a bucket of balls and just stand in the same spot and hit, while if I'm practicing I would have moved all around the green in 30 minutes, you know. So I'll hit five balls, find a different spot, five balls, different spot, five balls and just keep working around the green, working around the green, different shots, and if there's a shot that I'm struggling with, hit a few more from there and then carry on. So it's more. Chipping is more about getting a volume on different lice. So it's like because really what we're, what we're doing, is a chip shot. Very rarely is a straightforward chip shot. The balls below a feet, above a feet, side lice, you know all sorts of stuff. So you got to expose yourself to all these different lice.
Speaker 3:Let's move a little bit to the mental game of scoring. Do you work with your players on having a mindset of going low?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's that's an interesting question because you have some players that want to shoot for a score. Some players just want to play one hole at a time and see what happens. So it's like, you know, I'll have a player where we might say at the start of the week, what do you think the winning score is going to be? We might say 16, 18 under a case. So we know that we got to go. You know a certain number, 400 or 500, or a day, whatever it is. To have a chance with.
Speaker 2:Someone else might think that's that's way too much to think ahead. You know, I just want to play one hole at a time and sort of see what happens. I was the type of player that really wanted to go out and say, okay, if I shoot, you know 500 today, I should be right there and I keep going with those sort of numbers, you know. So they kept me engaged. But everyone's very different VJ would be like that. I know Tiger would go out on a Sunday thinking, you know what, if I shoot 64 day, I'll have a chance to win.
Speaker 3:So thanks very much, Gabe. Where can our listeners find out more about you and your products?
Speaker 2:Yes, I got a Gabe golf, gabe golf Instagram, that's it.
Speaker 3:You'll find a bunch of stuff there, so I heard your surgeon wedges were in low supply. Have you fixed that?
Speaker 2:Yes, the back, the back, yeah, and I've got a good good little supply right now, so hopefully I just keep supplying to my players.
Speaker 3:Great. Thank you so much again for your time today. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:You got it, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Gabe.