"This Is Not The End": Nina Sossamon-Pogue's Path from Olympic Aspirations to Emmy-Winning Transformation

Can resilience be learned, and how do we redefine ourselves after life's most challenging setbacks? Tune in to find out as we sit down with the incredible Nina Sossaman Pogue, whose journey from elite athlete to Emmy Award-winning journalist and high-tech executive offers invaluable lessons on overcoming adversity. From the heartbreak of missing the 1984 Olympic team to a life-altering injury at LSU, Nina's story is one of relentless transformation and self-discovery.

Nina opens up about the emotional toll of losing her gymnastics career and the profound impact of mentorship and self-kindness in her journey to find new purpose. She brings us into the pivotal moments that reshaped her life, including a heart-wrenching incident involving a friend's child and the guilt that followed. Through her candid recounting, Nina emphasizes the importance of reframing our internal dialogue and viewing failure not as a definitive end but as a stepping stone toward growth.

We also explore Nina's philosophies on resilience, including how to map life events to gain perspective and the significance of 'chapter six thinking' in appreciating the potential ahead. This episode is a treasure trove of insights, from the power of choice in overcoming life's obstacles to the value of a supportive community. Whether you're navigating personal challenges or seeking inspiration for a fresh start, Nina's story offers a roadmap to resilience and optimism.

Here's more information about Nina:

Book 1: https://www.amazon.com/This-Not-End-Strategies-Chapters/dp/1642798061

Book 2: https://www.amazon.com/But-Want-Both-Working-Creating/dp/B08M1QXZK3

Website: https://www.ninasossamonpogue.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ninasossamonpogue/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NinaTheAuthor
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nina_sp.eaks/

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Hey everyone, welcome to this week's show. Hey, stay tuned, because in a few moments you're going to hear the story of one of the most powerful women I've ever spoken with in my life. You're going to hear from Nina Sossaman Pogue. She's a sought-after speaker, a best-selling author and a podcast host, and her story is so extraordinary. She started off as an elite athlete, then went into television news, then into corporate America.

Speaker 1: 0:29

So here's a cool thing Nina left home at age 13 to go train with the USA gymnastics team and during that time she graced the cover of magazines all over the world, all alongside, right alongside with Mary Lou Retton. But unfortunately she failed to make the Olympic team in 1984. So as a young girl 16, 17 years old her entire identity was in question. So she went back to high school, picked herself up, went on to LSU, became an elite gymnast there. But once again, bad news she blew her knee out and that ended her gymnastics career.

Speaker 1: 1:07

So now, at a young age of roughly 19, again, her entire identity was in question. She had to ask herself who am I? Her entire life has been dedicated to gymnastics and that's over. But she didn't stay down long. She graduated and then she went on to a 20-year career as an Emmy Award-winning journalist and news anchor. This woman's life is ever-evolving and transformative. She went from gymnastics to television, to the high-tech world and as a celebrated executive. She actually navigated her company to go public. This woman is a resilient powerhouse. She has conquered life's obstacles with grace and courage. One question she'll ask you in this episode is when you're going through difficulties, when you're going through challenges, who will you be on the other side of it? So please stay tuned.

Speaker 2: 2:08

Hello and welcome to the Bamboo Lab podcast with your host, peak performance coach, brian Bosley. Are you stuck on the hamster wheel of life, spinning and spinning but not really moving forward? Are you ready to jump off and soar? Are you finally ready to sculpt your life? If so, you've landed in the right place. This podcast is created and broadcast just for you, all of you strivers, thrivers and survivors out there. If you'd like to learn more about Brian and the Bamboo Lab, feel free to reach out to explore your true peak level at wwwbamboolab3.com.

Speaker 1: 2:51

Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the Bamboo Lab podcast. As always, I'm your host, brian Bosley, and today we have, as you already heard in the earlier bio, we have the triple threat, nina Sassaman-Pogan. So Nina, my new friend, welcome to the Bamboo Lab podcast.

Speaker 3: 3:06

Hey, Brian, thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here today. It's a pleasure man.

Speaker 1: 3:10

I've enjoyed our conversation before we started recording.

Speaker 3: 3:14

Yeah you're really kind, because I was all over the place when we were chatting, so, yeah, I'm looking forward to sharing with your tribe there.

Speaker 1: 3:21

Yeah, let's do it, man, you know so I've learned a little bit about you, but if you could just share what you want to share about just who you are share with the Bamboo Pack. Hey, I'm Nina, here's who I am.

Speaker 3: 3:39

Maybe your childhood, a little bit about you, what inspired you to growing up, and then we'll get into all the amazing things you've been doing with your life. Yeah, I'd be happy to Hi everyone. So right now I'm in Charleston, south Carolina. That's where I live and I'm in my 50s. So if I and I'm a speaker and author and all those things, but if you play my resume backwards, I was a news anchor for lots of years. I was a tech exec. For lots of years I was also a gymnast and a member of the US gymnastics team. I've had three kids and so part of who I am is all of those.

Speaker 3: 4:06

But if you started my childhood and play my resume forward, it's a lot of ups and downs. So as a kid I grew up in Navy Brat and I found gymnastics and I loved gymnastics. It was kind of, you know, my safe space, no matter where we lived or who was around. That's where I felt most at home home and so I moved away from home. At 13 I made the us team, which was a big deal uh, some of the cover magazines and I'm traveling all over the world japan, hungary, germany, australia and then I don't make the olympics in 84.

Speaker 3: 4:38

Those were the years when mary lou was there. Remember mary lou retton, oh yeah, um, yeah, so m Mary Lou was on the team and we got to room together some too. But it's because it was Retton and Rofi my maiden name's Rofi it's not because we were number one and number two. I actually, the first year that Mary Lou won the USA championships, I won Miss Congeniality really. So, yeah, so I'm pretty proud of that. But yeah, she was always number one and I was always the one. That was not number one, but everybody liked being around.

Speaker 1: 5:05

That was fun but you didn't make the weedies box I didn't make the weedies box.

Speaker 3: 5:09

Yeah, you know, her daughter ended up going to lsu, where I went, so we reconnected and stuff, uh, as adults, and so it's been fun to, you know, reconnect with her anyway, so it's awesome. So, yeah, so I was on the us team. I didn't make the Olympics Ripe old age of 16. Had to go back to my high school with my, you know, tail tucked between my legs and felt like my life was over and I was embarrassed and thought I was a loser and really a difficult time in my life. But then I, you know, found my way forward and ended up going and competing at LSU, which is one of the top programs in the country, back then D1 school and they just won the national championships.

Speaker 1: 5:47

Go Tigers.

Speaker 3: 5:49

Yeah, super psyched for those girls. It's the first time they've ever won in all the years that LSU has been in the game. So I competed for them and I really thought that I was in a good spot, found my tribe and happy way up on top again. But then I blew out my knee in a gymnastics competition. Um and uh in competition too. So a room picture the pmac, the pete maravich assembly center, full and I land and scream the f-bomb loudly many times when my knee went out not my proudest moment can I find that on youtube, you think?

Speaker 3: 6:22

no, thank goodness, youtube wasn't a thing back in the well, somebody must have recorded it no, they don't have it. Or if they do, I've never seen it in all these years.

Speaker 1: 6:30

I'm gonna be, I'm gonna look this afternoon.

Speaker 3: 6:32

I'm telling you okay, good, good, if you find it anyway. So I blow up my knee. Another real low moment in my life. I, I lost my identity. You know I identified as an active gymnast back then and I think about it. So back then it was like my bumper sticker and it was on my sweatshirt. I mean, that's how I identified. Nowadays you have these young people and it's on their Instagram and their TikTok and their everything. So losing your identity is really difficult in those young adult years. Your identity is really difficult in those, you know, young, young adult years.

Speaker 3: 7:08

Um, so I I went through a really tough time there but, uh, fortunately for me I there was a couple of people who pointed me in the right direction and I ended up finding journalism and I loved television. I became a news anchor, a reporter for a lot of years. I did political reporting. I started out as a sports reporter, you can imagine, and I did stories on the athletes at LSU kind of the minor sports track and field and gymnastics and volleyball and golf. I did lots of stories on that starting off. But then I really found my legs, got my legs under me in journalism and became a political reporter, an investigative journalist, and then I became a news anchor and I spent almost 20 years in news, which was a really cool time. I mean, I've flown through hurricanes and met presidents and it just was a big part of my life.

Speaker 1: 7:53

Was this in Charleston Nina?

Speaker 3: 7:55

I started in WBRZ of Baton Rouge first. That was my first station and then I moved to Charleston. I've been in Charleston for most of that time. Yeah, I became a news anchor. The only place I ever anchored was here in charleston. The news anchor here, uh, for many, many years, uh, and it was back in. It was like anchorman days. I mean, if you picture that movie, I mean literally big hair, big earrings.

Speaker 1: 8:18

It's embarrassing, but fun were you kind of a big deal?

Speaker 3: 8:22

oh, I was kind of a big deal.

Speaker 1: 8:23

well, I see on was kind of a big deal. Well, I see on your website I saw an Emmy Award, yeah, so I had some great success there.

Speaker 3: 8:30

Yeah, I won an Emmy for Best Newscaster in the Southeast, but that came after. So I'm going along doing really good in television. Charleston's voted Charleston's Favorite News Anchor seven times in a row. And then another big this in my life on a Thursday I get that award year seven of that. And then on Friday the news director calls me into his office and he says um, hey, we are releasing you from your contract without cause. And uh, and they pull in the little HR girl and they packed a box and handed it to me and walked me out the door.

Speaker 3: 9:04

I was full, I was walking to the news set to go cut a news brief when it happened and it was just nationwide budget cuts for the big conglomerate that owned us and I just was in the mix and so I was let go. I remember sitting in my car thinking now what, yeah, exactly? I mean I just won this award for you. So then I went and popped over and worked at the other TV station in town, Because at the time I had just gone through a divorce, not long before that, and so I had my kids right here. I couldn't actually jump to a new town. I had my ex-husband and stuff. I had the kids with me, we were co-parenting. So I went across the road and they made me a great, great offer and I went to work for them and that's when I won the Emmy for best newscaster in the Southeast, Because you know how motivated you are after somebody's done you wrong. That was a little bit of an F? You to the folks who let me go.

Speaker 1: 9:55

So after you got terminated from the one news or news television, you went to the other competitor and won the Emmy.

Speaker 3: 10:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:04

Fuck yeah, exactly that's.

Speaker 3: 10:05

Fuck yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 10:07

That's balling right there. That's awesome.

Speaker 3: 10:10

So so I did that. So that was, that was a thing and one of those moments in my life where I was really proud that I had not just, you know, gotten through that, but they rose my game to a new level. A little bit of a poke in the eye of those guys, yeah. So that was a big part of my life. And then during that time, while I was, you know, charleston's favorite news anchor now for the ninth or tenth time in a row and I was best newscaster in the Southeast and won the Emmy for that I went through the hardest thing in my life.

Speaker 3: 10:42

We'll talk more about it, but I went through a car accident not a car, an accident in which I went from reporting the headlines to being in the headlines and I went through a really dark time but I found my way through that and I got back up on my feet. And then I ended up going from TV to tech and I had huge success in the tech sector. So I became a vice president at my friend's startup and we grew it from 250 people to 1200 and took the company public and I was running marketing comms during their IPO. So back and forth to New York all the time on a little jet, like a whole new chapter in my life, and had big success. So the long, long answer that I've given you is my life has been high, highs and low, lows and it has brought me to this moment now where I really like to share the low lows and how I got through them so other people can make sure that whatever they're going through they, whatever struggle they're going through, there's always a fast, fast forward.

Speaker 1: 11:41

Let's. Yeah, I'm not even going to follow my typical protocol with you with my questions. We're just going to walk through this man. There's so much to unpack with you. I don't know if I mentioned this already to the Pamu Pack, but I want to share right now. Stop for a minute. I want to have you. When you're done with this episode, please go to the show notes, go to the bottom of the show notes. You're going to hear, you're going to see three in two or two, her two books this Is Not the End Strategies to Get Through the Worst Chapters of your Life, which I'm getting a free copy of. I heard after this podcast, so I'm happy for that, and then you won.

Speaker 1: 12:14

Yeah, man, and the other one is, but I want both. The Working Mom's Guide to Creating a Life she Loves. Those were. One was rated a 4.8 star on Amazon, the other one a 4.9. So these are books. You want to mention it again before we're done today, but I want you to, please, I'm going to invite you and actually kind of nudge you to go look at those books.

Speaker 1: 12:27

So let's go through this man. Let's start talking about the lows, because I think so many times, nina, when people the feedback, as I shared with you earlier, that I get from so many of the Bamboo Pack subscribers and listeners out there is they love to hear these incredible people that come on the show. They want to hear that these people also have gone through some really dark shit in their lives. You know those dark days and because so many people tune into this show because they're struggling with something or they, you know there's something's holding them back. They're the hamster on the hamster wheel, you know, and they're trying to dig through that. So if you can start unpacking some of those lows, of the lows you've had because you've certainly had a lot of highs and I want to bring those back up again but if you want to go through whatever you share, what you want to share, but I'm going to let you take the wheel for a minute.

Speaker 3: 13:12

Well gosh, there's a lot to go with there. But I think, in honor of the Olympics which are just kicking off and part of our summer here as we record this, let's talk about the gymnastics lows a little bit. I think it's really important and I think your audience will appreciate this too. When I lost my sport, like it was everything that I knew in my life, I truly felt like my life was over, like I had wasted my whole life in a gym, like I was a failure At the rightful you know as a teenager. I was 19 when I blew a knee out. So not only did I not make the Olympics, but then I blew my knee out and I spent my whole life. I'd never been to a high school football game, I never dated, never done anything, um, but gymnastics, um, and I say that. On the other hand, I traveled the world and all those things, but in the high school the teenagers had I felt like I had wasted my life and I I think it's really great to know now, with all the you know perspective that I have at that time and I talk about this in my book it's my favorite thing to talk about.

Speaker 3: 14:11

It's my chapter six thinking. It's what my daughter calls it. She says her friends are all she's 25. So my friends are always a mess. I have to do chapter six on them all the time. Yeah, so yeah, I have to do chapter six on them all the time. Um, but the thinking is so. When I lost my score, I do a little math, I make you make a take. I ask you to look at your life in a timeline and, brian, you can do this too. Uh, you, if you turn a piece of paper sideways and you just draw a line from zero to 100 and you put 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, how you know all the way to, if you live to be 100, which I'd like to live to be 100, but I need to drink less wine and take better care of myself.

Speaker 1: 14:48

That's the goal, Dude. Ag1 is the ticket. Ag1 and AlphaBrain, two of the greatest products out there, I'm a big fan.

Speaker 3: 14:59

Yeah, yeah, I like the Golden Mind too, that other product. But yes, I'm all on board with all of the things. The cold therapy.

Speaker 3: 15:06

Cold plunges yeah, yes, but anyway. So you draw this line and then you can take whatever you're dealing with now and you can take today. So, however many days old you are today, like drop yourself onto that line of your timeline of your life and you can do a little math and look at your life differently. But put on there all your years you were, did a certain career or married to a certain person or lived in a certain place. You could draw that out on that timeline and when I did that I could see um, the gymnastics.

Speaker 3: 15:39

When I was 19, gymnastics was 75 of what I knew in life. So of course it felt like my whole life. My life experience at 19 was pretty. It was 75% gymnastics. I've been about four years old. I've been a gymnast. They put me in gymnastics. I was hyper and couldn't sit still in dance class. So all those years, 75% of my life was gymnastics.

Speaker 3: 16:05

When I was 19 and lost my sport, picture that. But then, if I play it forward, when I was 50 and my kids left for college and I was in that space in my life, my time that I've been in television and my time that I've been a parent and my time that I've been in tech was all bigger compared to gymnastics and I could see that at 50, it was 28% of my life. Gymnastics was 28% of my life. It wasn't my whole life, even though it felt like it then. And if I lived to be 100, it's going to be 15% of my life. So I can look at it really differently. You can do the math.

Speaker 3: 16:36

Of course it felt like everything because my life experience was different. But when you lose your sport, it's really. Or when you go through a divorce, you just feel like life is never going to be the same. And for me and I hope for your listeners too if you do this and you can put yourself on a dot and even on my bad days, I will put myself on that dot now and go look at all that blank space ahead. Anything can happen in the blank space ahead. The magic of that is the blank space ahead. Magic of that is the blank space ahead. You can kind of put some math around how long these things have gone on in your life and then you can see the percentage of your life it was and you can play it forward and go look at all the blank space ahead and that's frigging mine. I could do whatever I want with it. I could go off the rails tomorrow and get like a face tat, do my hair purple and, you know, ride across the country on a Harley. And that motorcycle scare me.

Speaker 1: 17:23

And you need to, you have to send me a new headshot.

Speaker 3: 17:25

if you do that, then yeah, yeah, it'll be a little different, but those of you who are, I haven't seen me and that is not my luck, just for the record.

Speaker 1: 17:34

Yeah, I love that exercise. I'm going to commit to this to you on Friday I have a little extra time. I get done coaching at like 1130 in the morning. I'm going to do the chapter six exercise. I started doing it here but I and I put some ideas down. But, um, cause I'm 57. I'm like I like the magic of the blank space.

Speaker 3: 17:52

So I think I get caught. We're the same age. Hey wait, we're the same age, Maybe 66?

Speaker 1: 17:55

67.

Speaker 3: 17:56

Okay, well, I'm a little older than you.

Speaker 1: 17:59

Well, trust me, your, your, your headshot does not make you look older than I do.

Speaker 3: 18:03

Trust me. No, I'm 57 as well, so we're on the same page.

Speaker 1: 18:06

I'm a March 20 baby.

Speaker 3: 18:09

Gotcha, I'm a December baby.

Speaker 1: 18:10

Oh cool, I'm just four months older, so three months older, so I'm sorry.

Speaker 3: 18:14

Anyway, when you do that exercise, you can see what your life looked like. And then you do the math and go oh, this segment of my life was this percentage of my life. It really helped me with relationships Like, oh, that marriage wasn't a waste, it was just like a little percentage of my life and I learned a lot from it and got these great kids. All good, you know, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 18:31

Wow, I love that. Should I wait to get your book before I do the chapter six exercise?

Speaker 3: 18:37

No, you can go ahead and do it. There's more to it, but I do prompt you with places you lived and have all the prompts. I actually do a workshop. I do a lot of corporate speaking. Now they're like executive off sites because I'll have them think what is your legacy? What are you leaving behind? Is it just what you're doing? Is it who you're being? It's a really cool concept. You can find commonalities in the things that you did in life. That's how I figured out that. Oh yeah, I've always been everybody's cheerleader and helped people. I was Miss Congeniality.

Speaker 1: 19:17

I was.

Speaker 3: 19:17

Miss Congeniality, I was Charleston's favorite news anchor. I did a bunch of nonprofit work. It's kind of who I am. You're like Sandra Bullock.

Speaker 1: 19:23

Right, one of my favorite movies, by the way, I don't know if I've ever seen it, but I know.

Speaker 1: 19:29

Okay, that's your homework for Friday. I've got to go back and watch that. I'd rather do the chapter six exercise. Trust me, I don't want to diverge to or get you to distract on this, but I want to ask you how is it really, at 19 or 16, not making the Olympic team devastated Go to LSU, blow out your knee at 19. I mean, I can't imagine what that does to you. Like you said, you lose your identity.

Speaker 3: 19:50

Yeah, well, they put me in. You have to work for the university in order to keep your scholarship back then. So I have, and my coach was none too happy. She brought in this, you know, top recruit, and then I blew out my knee and I ended up working in the laundry room. I used to joke. I still joke. There's a chance. There was a moment there where my claim to fame was going to be I washed shaquille o'neal's jockstrap. That might have been it, but thank goodness I found a path forward.

Speaker 1: 20:16

Um you didn't rest on those laurels no, no so.

Speaker 3: 20:20

But I worked in the laundry room and, um, you know, back then I mean I had, I was in a wheelchair for a few days and then I had this big thing on my leg and I'm crutching around and I would work in the laundry room. You know how to get up and go to therapy. I would take my two Percocets with a shot of Jaeger. I was just in a bad spot.

Speaker 3: 20:36

I was not a happy camper, I didn't have all the great choices I'm not going to pretend that I made all the best choices in life that space in my brain and I went through a tough time there and I was really fortunate. One day I was doing laundry and I would put, you know, change it all out and and this was under the stadium and then I'd walk out of this laundry room and I'd lean up against the wall and kind of lean my crutches up against the wall and sit in the sunshine and all the other athletes are walking to practice and going back and forth and, um, you know, nobody really talks to you because you're kind of the example of what could happen. So it's not that you're a leper, but it's not like I was and I wasn't real approachable either. I was pretty grumpy at the time but I was always alone in that space and I had this one counselor who was an academic counselor. Um, they didn't have mental health counselors back then. You just were left out to take care of yourself.

Speaker 3: 21:30

Oh yeah, but this one guy came by every once in a while and he would say, hey, how you doing? And I would say something snarky like great, can't you tell Best day ever? You know, because that's me. And then one day he actually sat down and we started chatting and he would stop every once in a while and talk with me. And then he said what are you going to do? What do you think life's going to look like after this? What else do you want to do? And I had had no thoughts of that. I hadn't thought that at all. All I'd been thinking about was how pissed I was at where I was and how I ruined my whole life. I'd all thinking in the past, which is, you know, that's where depression lives, and I hadn't thought about the future at all. And so he got me thinking about the future and he encouraged me to work for sports information instead of the laundry room and try to get in there. And then I found my way to television and found my path forward.

Speaker 3: 22:19

So, but I went through a really tough time trying to figure out not just the physical. I mean, I can remember being in a little harness thing. They put you at and they put you in a swimming pool and they put you in a harness and you try to walk and like, put your feet down and use that leg again. My leg was mangled. It was my third surgery, there was not much left to fix in there Took stuff out of my ankle and they put screws in and stuff, which, of course, later in life, I did triathlons on, which I just think is funny now.

Speaker 3: 22:45

But back then they put you in the swimming pool and they try to get you to start walking and I think it's one of those universe speaking to me moments, and I think it's one of those universe speaking to me moments.

Speaker 3: 22:55

They had drained the pool the night before and they were just filling it back up and I'm doing this exercise and my foot touched the bottom, and so I had this moment where my foot touched the bottom and I could feel like the muscles twitch and I was like, oh, I'm going to be able to walk again, I'm going to be okay, and that was another turning point. But, yeah, going through that, you really have to figure out who you're going to be on the other side of it, and and and it took that person having, you know, taking a moment to talk to me every once in a while, and it took myself touching my foot down and realizing that leg was going to work again, and you know a few other things that happened in my life to get me to move forward, because I went straight to trying to make up for lost time and all the other bad decisions. I like to say I graduated from LSU in booze and boys.

Speaker 1: 23:44

That was my degree.

Speaker 3: 23:46

That was my degree booze and boys. I had three more years to go through, which took four. I was on the five-year plan to get out of LSU. It took me a little while I'm a six-year veteran of college.

Speaker 1: 23:59

I think it was five and a half actually. What was your degree in?

Speaker 3: 24:04

Journal studies. That's what it says on the piece of paper, something like that. I went into journalism but it was going to be another. I didn't have the credits to go over to get a journalism degree, so was going to be another. I didn't have the credits to go over to get a journalism degree. So I did the whole line, the whole track to communications and journalism, but I didn't have money. If I didn't have scholarship, I couldn't go to college. So I ended up getting out with a general college degree, but I already had an internship at the TV station, so it was not a true journalism degree, though. It's just general studies with the with the in parentheses.

Speaker 1: 24:38

There it says communications, yeah so having that internship, that's what you got you into journalism and television correct.

Speaker 3: 24:45

Yeah, I had internship and it was because I knew all the athletes and I could tell other stories and they liked me again. I was likable and so I became the go-to in the newsroom to do all the other stories and you know, obviously in Baton Rouge LSU athletics is a big part of the sports department, um, and what they're doing each night. So I found my way in that way.

Speaker 1: 25:04

So how long did it take before your identity began to shift from you know gymnast to then obviously being injured and not being a gymnast any longer, to being a news anchor? When did that? When did you start noticing shift Like my identity has re. I've reclaimed a new identity.

Speaker 3: 25:18

I think it was about three years. It wasn't quick. So I I always tell everybody it's okay to not be okay, it's just not okay to stay that way. That's one of my biggest mantras, I think it took me about and I was in college. I was still figuring out who I was, and that's a great place to figure out who your identity is. I found like-minded people and I went in different directions. I got into bodybuilding. I got really into training really heavy and health and fitness in college, because it was new and different. I taught aerobics and I coached some gymnastics and I got big into bodybuilding.

Speaker 3: 25:51

That became this. That became this new thing I was really focused on. And then journalism really became. As soon as I stepped in the newsroom and felt the energy of the newsroom, I was like this is me, I'm all in on this. I just knew it in a minute. Yeah, I do sometimes joke that if Cirque du Soleil had been around back then I'm not sure it wasn't a thing I think I would still be like the old lady in tights trying to do things jump on trampolines.

Speaker 1: 26:18

Hey, it's not too late. A lot of blank space. That's right, a lot of blank space, my friend.

Speaker 3: 26:23

After I get that face tat, I'm going to go out to Cirque du Soleil and try it out.

Speaker 1: 26:27

Go back to Percocet and Jagermeister.

Speaker 3: 26:30

No, never do that one again.

Speaker 1: 26:32

My son will like to hear that. My son, that's kind of what he likes to drink. He's in college. He'll drink some Jägermeister sometimes and I'm like dude, I don't. That stuff tastes like poison to me.

Speaker 3: 26:42

It does now I don't know what like. I would never drink that again. It tastes like alcohol, licorice medicine, licoricey alcohol medicine.

Speaker 1: 26:59

Like it's not. It's not doesn't taste like food product.

Speaker 3: 27:01

I don't like medicine or licorice, so I don't know, I'd want to drink anything. I think it's a rite of passage for people, though. I drank yager last night. I haven't done it since college, so there's that.

Speaker 1: 27:06

So that was obviously the. The gymnastics experience was, I mean, the, obviously when you had not, when you didn't make the team, and then when you got your, when you blew your knee out. Those were your low points of that. And then talk let's talk about, like as your, your, your next phase of your as being a news anchor and, uh, obviously very well acclaimed news anchor, reporter, journalist um, how, what was that like? What were some things you went through during that period of your life?

Speaker 3: 27:31

yeah. So I loved television. I love telling other people's stories. I love meeting people. I think everybody has a story.

Speaker 3: 27:38

I'm one of those people that can find the good in whatever I'm reporting on. I took it very seriously. If I'm going to have to tell you bad news, I want to be the one to bring it to you and break it to you in a way that's fair, balanced and accurate and with some kindness. I really love that space. But then in my 30s I was doing great in it. I had these two beautiful children at home. I'm in a. Well, I was Charleston's favorite news anchor. When you saw a picture of me you would think I was pretty much perfect and living the perfect life. It's pretty and I had a good job and I had a handsome husband, all the things. But then in my 30s I went through this downward spiral where my marriage fell apart, I lost my job and my dog died. It was like a bad country song. You know it was like a standard. I call it a bad country song. My marriage fell apart, I lost my dog.

Speaker 1: 28:27

That's a trifecta. That's like a perfect storm of bad shit happening.

Speaker 3: 28:31

It was, and I call it. My life became a country song. My marriage fell apart, I lost my job and then my dog died. And those things happened all within the same year. It just was this downward flippity-floppity down into the depths again and I had to figure out who. I was fortunate. After I was let go. I told you that story.

Speaker 3: 28:54

I sat in the car for a long time after they packed my box and said you're done, and I didn't know. It was one of those now what moments I call them. I didn't know what to do, like I couldn't go home because my sitter was there with the kids and I wasn't ready to talk to her or the kids deal with that, and I couldn't go out anywhere. I was full of makeup and hair. People would be like why aren't you on the news, nina? And back then everybody watched the news. It wasn't in your pocket. Everybody tuned in at 6 o'clock so I couldn't go anywhere and I went, drove past my parents lived in town. I drove past their house. They weren't home and I went in my mom's closet and I got a pair of sneakers because I had heels with heels. I got a pair of sneakers which were size too small and I squeezed my feet in those and I went and walked along the beach. I live in Charleston, thank goodness, and my happy spot has always been near water, so I walked along that beach in my suit, with my mom's shoes on. It's kind of funny to think about now, trying to figure out, like how did I get here, what's next, like what am I doing with my life? And I finally, you know, went home, dealt with things, and then I got to a point where they made me a deal and I had six months, as long as I said nice things and I didn't say that they let me go, that it was no, it was, we both had agreed to it. They didn't want it out in the press that I had been terminated. They just said we're going to say we parted ways amicably or whatever, and they would pay me my full fee, my full salary, for six months. And I was like I'm just going to take the six months.

Speaker 3: 30:39

And so one of the things that I did to get through that is I spent six months playing with my kids on the beach and being the mom that I wanted to be and being a very different person than I had been in my very driven years doing television and living life and figured out who I was, and I think that's probably the first time in my life that I really looked at is it what I'm doing or who I'm being? That concept of it's not what you do, it's who you're going to be, and I said I just want to be this person. This is the mom I want to be, this is the friend I want to be. This is the person I want to be, and I wanted to be successful. Don't get me wrong. There was not a part of me that didn't want to be successful in there too. Um, letting all unicorns and rainbows. I wanted to work, um, and make something. And that's when I, you know, realized I really loved television and I wanted to get back in it, no matter what, because I'd spent years figuring out how to do it. I was good at it.

Speaker 3: 31:21

But that phase through there and I have a framework that I share with folks when they're going through a tough time now that I created much later in my 50s, and I can look back at all these things and look back on all these things but one of the pieces of it I learned in that timeframe in those 30s, when going through all those things, was this first the timeline piece, and what exactly am I dealing with now? But the people like who do I need to pull into my life, who needs to be different than what has been in the past, like who's helping and who's hurting, and how am I going to do that? Moving forward, you can't go by yourself. You got to figure that out, the kind of person and parent and all those things you want to be. And then I was like, what is the story I'm telling myself? Because I was back to saying I was a failure and a loser, like I was when I was 16. And here I was not a failure or a loser. I was successful.

Speaker 3: 32:14

Two weeks ago, like actually two hours ago, I felt very successful, right, like, right, you know, I'm still the same person I was then, and so I used that time to go wait a minute, I still was an elite athlete and was an award-winning journalist at the time and I had these two great kids and all these other things I could look at and go look, I'm not a failure, I'm just failing. Right now I'm not a failure. So I had to change the language in my head. But that was a tough time to go through and I did decide. During that time I went sat and made lists, like so many others to do, and went what am I good at? What do I like? Why do I like this? What don't I want to do? And that's when I realized I really like television. I like news. I wanted to get back into it, so I made the decision to do so.

Speaker 1: 32:58

I love that statement. I'm not a failure, I'm just failing right now.

Speaker 3: 33:03

Yeah, I think I just said that on your show for the first time. I just wrote it down when I said it. I'm like that was good.

Speaker 1: 33:08

No, it's your quote, not mine, but I'm going to use it again. I will definitely give you props for it whenever I use it. I love that Because I think a lot of us I know myself included at times when things aren't going well, I'm making mistakes, I'm doing stupid things or, you know the business might be, I might lose a client or do a bad show. I go, I'm hard on myself inside I don't talk about it openly, but I'm hard and I start going down that deep rabbit hole, a dark rabbit hole of oh, maybe I'm a failure in life. You know, maybe I'm never going to be. You know I'll never be the man I want to be. But really it's like no, I like that Right at this moment. I failed at something, but I'm not a failure.

Speaker 3: 33:42

Keep it that simple, yeah and 100%. I'm going to use that over and over. I really like that. It came out of my moutheralize that's one way like this always happens to me. You know that's not healthy. Or we catastrophize. This is never going to work. Everything's ruined. That kind of like that's horrible language. The words in your head come out of your mouth and that becomes your frigging story. You know, or we exaggerate. I got a million things to do. I got this is you know so many miles to go and we just got to get ourselves out of, out of that language. Or we the other pieces of the labor, piece of the self-sabotage, like if I'd only done this, if I'd have married that guy, if I'd have done this different, if I had chosen a different career, if I hadn't gone to work that day, or something. You know we, we do that self-sabotage so dangerous.

Speaker 1: 34:48

Well, and I think we look at failure as a negative, and I have a really good story. I was privileged to be part of a team when I got out of college. I worked for American Express Financial Advisors and I was a couple of really good friends of mine. We were financial advisors. I think he's the wealthiest man in Detroit now. He's just a really incredibly intelligent guy. He got his master's degree from Harvard in 10 weeks through an executive crash program and we were working for him and just a genius of a guy.

Speaker 1: 35:07

And we were at Monterey, california. We were at a leadership conference. This is back in the early mid-90s and we were at this buffet table and John was a time. I think he was like 35 years old, maybe 33. And he was a division vice president, group vice president. There were probably about 30 of them around the world at a high level at American Express and he was by far the youngest by far. Sometimes he was half the age of the other people who his peers were. But our group, our division that he was in charge of, was doing twice as much in sales as number two was, so we were by far the superstars in the company. His team was led by him maybe 500 people or maybe a thousand people, I'm not sure, but anyway people didn't like him because he was young, good looking, brass, highly intelligent. He was a technical genius for sure, and by far the most successful.

Speaker 1: 35:54

And we were at this table or at this buffet and I was kind of two people from him as we were getting our food and somebody said Mr Hans, because we made a lot of mistakes in our group, we were the Detroit region, which was Toledo. It was a big group of people or big bunch of cities, but that was his division. And he said I see, you crashed some planes this year, you know like made some mistakes. And john stopped for a minute, he paused and he said, yeah, I don't forget who. The other guy was an older guy. And he said, yeah, I did, but I crashed planes. You don't have the fucking balls to fly and I'm like man and everybody. Everybody just stopped and it was like everybody was didn't know how. The guy was red in the face, he couldn't respond. It was like then we just got our food and kept going and I'll never forget that moment and it taught me a valuable lesson. I don't even know if we spoke about it afterward, but that that's perfectly stated perfectly perfectly, that is epic.

Speaker 3: 36:43

I love that story so yeah, and I'm big, I'm gonna fail fast. Keep trying things. You know we you're gonna regret us as a bitch, you don't you don't want to live life and have that. You know, that's the one I will never have. I will always go out and try and do and yeah dude, you have got me writing down so many quotes here.

Speaker 1: 37:02

Regret as a bitch that sounds like a good book title.

Speaker 3: 37:07

That's your next book regret as a bitch make regret your bitch, make regret your bitch yeah oh my gosh, I can't believe that we went down that road I liked it.

Speaker 1: 37:18

I know we I liked at the beginning of the show, before we started recording, that we both said the f word yeah, well, I wasn't.

Speaker 3: 37:24

I'm really careful when I'm on podcasts and when I'm doing things and I never curse from the stage no but yeah, I do have a bit of a you know, a penchant to curse a lot. My kids will, my friends are coming over. Can you not drop the F-bomb in the first five minutes? That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 37:40

They're teaching you, they're scolding you for cursing.

Speaker 3: 37:42

Yeah, they're all in there. No, they used to in their high school. Now they don't care, they don't care, they're like Mom, it's not. But when they were in high, school they thought, wow, who's that?

Speaker 1: 37:58

So you've gone through some dark periods. I mean it's so amazing and I want the audience to hear that. I want that person out there listening right now who's going through something troubling, going down that dark rabbit hole. I want you to really pay attention to Nina's story because I mean, obviously the successes are there. Attention to Nina's story because I mean, obviously the successes are there. The successes make the website, but it's the struggles and the tragedies and some of the major challenges she's gone through that have made her successes so much more glorious and so much more exponential. What would you say and this is a question I know you've gone what would be one of the biggest challenges, nina, that you've ever gone through in your life? And then how did you overcome it? Is it one of the things we've talked about so far?

Speaker 3: 38:42

No, actually my biggest challenge is one I don't always talk about openly. Obviously, I've written a whole book on it, but when you read, this Is Not the End. It is about my biggest challenge. I talk about my five big thises. Whatever I use the word this, as in whatever you're going through, so my thises, because I don't know, I don't know what anyone listening or what you are facing as a challenge, but it's your thing. This thing that you're dealing with is your this.

Speaker 3: 39:13

So my biggest this, as I call it, was not not making the Olympic team or blowing out my knee or divorce or getting fired any of those. It was not not making the Olympic team or blowing out my knee or divorce or getting fired any of those. My biggest this happened when I was 37 and I was a very popular news anchor and I went through this really traumatic experience that just changed me as a human and made me not sure if I wanted to go on. And I don't always share it, but you know you and I talk a little bit beforehand and I will share it here because this is the type of podcast and the group your tribe. Wait, you don't call it a tribe. What do you call your people? Again?

Speaker 1: 39:40

Family pack yeah.

Speaker 3: 39:41

Family pack. I think it'd be, a tribe.

Speaker 3: 39:43

I went to LSU. I went to LSU. We're always a crew Crew, okay, yeah, with a K. Anyway, my biggest struggle I think your audience, your pack, would appreciate to hear, because I think everybody goes through tough times and that's why people tune in here. So I was, and it can be triggering. I'll just give you a little trigger warning for anybody who has some PTSD or around accidents of children and things. So I was 37.

Speaker 3: 40:17

As I mentioned, I had three young kids at home, popular news anchor, and I had decided that on this day I wanted to be like all the other moms and just pick my kids up from the bus stop because I never got to do the normal things, and so I took the afternoon off. I drove over to the bus stop because we were going to run some errands afterwards and the bus came into my neighborhood down the street at my best friend's house. One of my best friend's house, my co-anchor's wife so my co-anchor lived in the same community I had in a big suburban neighborhood in Charleston, south Carolina, and so they lived right down the roads and his wife and I were friends. So I drove over there, parked in their driveway and spent time with her before the bus got there, because they had a new baby and we were playing with a new baby. Then the bus comes and comes around the corner and kind of like you can imagine in a suburb on a beautiful fall day you kind of hear the kids before they even got off the bus. But then you know they opened the doors, opened the bus. The kids crawl out, you know, pile out like ants. Our boys throw their backpacks and they were in the first grade together and they're running around and playing and you know lots of moms and kids and siblings there at this crowded bus stop.

Speaker 3: 41:24

And then it comes time to go and like, hey, we got to run some errands. Grab this backpack, jump in the car and I'm, you know, buckling my son in how was your day? What's going on? And then I go to to leave, and then in that hustle and bustle of a crowded bus stop on a gorgeous day, with all those people, no one had noticed that my friend's baby, who was 11 months, had crawled under my car and I backed up and in that moment my whole world changed, obviously. Um, he survived and I'll tell you he's in college and he's okay. So, yeah, so this has been. We're coming up on 20 years ago now, but it's been what? 17, 18 years now, more than that, coming up on 20. So, and I didn't write my book until 15 years after this happened.

Speaker 3: 42:13

But in that moment the tire hit his skull and so in that moment, in the days and weeks that followed, we weren't sure if he was going to make it, and so I went to a really dark place in my head and thought this is who I am for the rest of my life is I'm the lady who injured the baby, or, worse, the one who, you know, killed a baby. And I thought this is who I am Now again, he lived. So that did not become the case, but he could have very easily. It was a million little miracles that saved him. So he ended up getting out of hospital in a few weeks. His mom and I held hands and walked down the hall of that hospital and said we're going to get through this together.

Speaker 3: 42:54

Obviously, his dad and I weren't back, didn't go on the air for weeks. The morning show people had to do the news. There were news trucks on my front lawn. There were prayer vigils all over the town. It was a traumatic experience for our whole community. But then he got out. He got better, we went back on the air, the world went on to other stories and the world kept turning.

Speaker 3: 43:18

But I had a really difficult time. This is not just my story to tell. Obviously, they have their own experience with this, so I don't always tell it. But I had a difficult time me my part of it with trying to figure out who is this new person that I am, because I didn't want this to be me. I didn't want this to be part of my story. I just wanted to be everybody's favorite news anchor and the world-class athlete with cute kids. That's all I wanted to be. I didn't want this to be part of me and I didn't see a way forward in which this was going to be okay to be part of me. And so I would have this suicidal ideation all the time. I'd want to step into traffic Before I went back on the air.

Speaker 3: 43:55

I remember standing in front of the mirror. It was the day I was supposed to go back on the air. After a few weeks he was out of the hospital, everything was doing better and I told my co-anchor. He and I met. We sat on the end of his dock and I said I'll go back on first. You spend some more time with your family. When you're ready, you come back. And so that was our plan.

Speaker 3: 44:13

And it was the day I was supposed to go back on the air and I stood there in front of my mirror and I grabbed my husband's razor I had just gotten remarried right before this had happened and I grabbed the razor and I thought, if I just slice up my face, then I won't be pretty and they won't want me on TV. And then I thought like yeah, or I could just be done with this all. And I'm looking at the bathtub and I was like whoa, whoa, whoa. And I realized how crazy these thoughts were in my head and I did what my therapist I had a good therapist at the time told me to do I put down the razor and I called him and he's like whoa, we have a plan.

Speaker 3: 44:50

You've got to trust me this is not going to be the headline forever. You got to trust me that life's going to be okay on the other side of it. Stick to the plan, stick to the script, go back on. You know, I my our plan was I would go back on the air for one year and then decide if I wanted to keep doing this and decide what life looked like one year. We set a one year target and all the things planned out, so I did that and I sat down the razor and I was fine. The world saw what it looked like to lead with love and go through an experience like that and all get through it together. This little guy went on to elementary and then high school and then college and had an amazing life.

Speaker 1: 45:28

What's his first name?

Speaker 3: 45:29

His name's Sam. I talk about him in my book Sam.

Speaker 1: 45:32

Hey, Sam, this one goes out to you, brother. Now go change the world.

Speaker 3: 45:36

He is.

Speaker 1: 45:37

He's an amazing human.

Speaker 3: 45:38

He is going to change the world.

Speaker 1: 45:39

I'm happy to hear that.

Speaker 3: 45:40

Got great stuff going on, wow, yeah, so. So this became obviously changed all of our lives, um, um, and I share it because, as horrible as it sounds, I think it's important because there's people who feel like they're never going to be on the other side of something, especially with someone. Everything's so public. Now, mine was very public pain. I call it public pain. But now, with everything on social media and everything out there, everything's public pain. Everybody knows all your business. It's very hard to do something in private. So this concept of public pain you feel like it's always going to be a part of you and who you are.

Speaker 3: 46:19

By the time I worked in tech, I'll tell you this wasn't even part of the story. Half of our technology company had come in from other parts of the country. They didn't know anything about that when I was working with them. They just knew that I was, you know, a vice president of the company and I worked hard and I was doing my thing and nothing could faze me. Obviously, nothing could faze me because I'd gone through something so tough. Like you bring it, I got you. Um, that's what I was known for. I was known for being that person. Um, I wasn't known for this.

Speaker 3: 46:46

But at the time I couldn't imagine my life one ever being happy again or feeling joy, especially in the weeks and months that followed. I couldn't ever imagine that because I was so numb. Your body goes through these weird phases of grief and numbness, and then I couldn't imagine anybody looking at me differently, like going back on the air and being anything but that. But within a few months that story was long gone. Everybody was back to. I won Charleston's favorite news anchor the next year. Oh shit, yeah, for the next two years. That next year and then the year when I was off the air and I wasn't even doing the news anymore. I wanted that year too, after I'd left for tech.

Speaker 3: 47:23

So people don't realize when you're really gone. I've just been there so long. People voted for me, so that's what they remember me for, who I was and for how I've done the news for those years and all my nonprofit work and all the other things in my life. But I share the story because it's just really difficult when you're in the middle of something to think that life will ever be okay again. You won't be the same, I will tell you. If you're going through something and you're listening, you won't be the same on the other side of it, you will be different. That's what resilience is. That's what resilience is. You will adapt in a positive way somehow, and you will be different on the other side.

Speaker 1: 47:59

But the new, you can be even better if you choose for it to be. Nina, can I ask you a question? I think of this often and you made a really good point Earlier. You said who will I be on the other side of this? And then you just now said you will be different. Do you think in a lot of cases, we have the choice? And I think when COVID hit, when we found out everything was shutting down, I called all my clients and I told my son the same thing Nobody will be the same after this is all over. We will either be stronger or we'll be weaker, and the choice is ours. It's how we handle the situation. Do you think we have that choice to decide if we're going to be stronger or weaker, better or worse after something?

Speaker 3: 48:30

Absolutely. Yep, that is up to you how you handle that is what resilience is. It's it's your ability to adapt in a positive way to the things that happen in your life. I say it's your ability to adapt in a positive way to this. Whatever this is that you're dealing with, and it's and it's your ability and it's a learned response and that's why I you know I put together this framework. It's taken me years to come up with this. I I call it my resilience route navigator, kind of this GPS that you can tap into when you're going along on the path and all of a sudden, you have to recalculate your route. This is my framework for that, but you absolutely, I 100% agree with you. You have a choice of how you're going to come out on the other side.

Speaker 1: 49:12

So it's your ability to adapt in a positive way to this.

Speaker 3: 49:16

To learn. Yeah, so the definition of resilience that I lean into in all my research and my writing is your ability, a person's ability to learn, grow stronger, learn, grow stronger and adapt in a positive way to whatever happens. And so I spend a lot of time thinking about, well, what the frick does that mean? Adapt in a positive way, like? Somebody explained that to me. So that's what right? Like, just throw that out there, what does that mean? So I spent a lot of time, you know, is it stoicism? Is it neuroscience? Is it behavioral therapy, like cognitive behavior therapy? How am I supposed to adapt in a positive way? So that's what my books and my speeches are around, like, how do you do that? But yes, you have a hundred percent, it's in your power. It's in your power to come out on the other side and be whatever, whatever the hell you want to be, you can say it.

Speaker 3: 50:04

I was trying to behave you almost. I caught the.

Speaker 1: 50:09

I caught the so you said stoicism. Are you a fan of stoicism?

Speaker 3: 50:20

Oh, big fan, I'm a big ryan holiday. There you go, I wear. I wear a quote by marcus release around my neck, really the amor fati and I wear it. He and emerson I'm a big emerson fan too. What lies behind you and what lies before you are tiny matters compared to what lies within you. Um, yeah, a a big Emerson fan, big Ryan Holiday fan.

Speaker 1: 50:36

I am too, but the Obstacle is the Way. I think I've read it five or six times. And, of course, the Daily Stoic, his daily affirmations book. I've read that. I mean this is the first year I changed it over to a Gay Hendricks who's a big fan of his work the Big Leap and he was on the podcast a couple of years ago and his book is your Big Leap and he was on the podcast a couple of years ago and his book is your Big Leap Year. So it's a daily workout book. I've changed over this year from the Daily Stoic to that, but I think I read the Daily Stoic like five years in a row, every day. I love that material. When I read the Obstacle is the Way the first time it stunned me, I was like this is fucking amazing. It's so well done.

Speaker 3: 51:15

It's so well done. It's so that I had all four of his books on my shelf and his daily. I get his newsletter every day and I'm a fan. I mentioned him in my book. I actually do. I do a segment on tattoos and I I mentioned I mentioned Ryan holiday because there's stoicism too, but I have a segment in there about tattoos. And I, but I have a segment in there about tattoos and I mentioned him having certain tattoos Are you pro-tattoo.

Speaker 3: 51:40

I am tattoo agnostic. My friend, I'm tattoo agnostic. You want to hear my tattoo story? I do. You can edit this piece out.

Speaker 1: 51:44

I don't edit anything out, oh okay. Nothing gets edited.

Speaker 3: 51:48

It's in the book. I mean there's a section on tattoos in there. And I like to say we started this thing when my kids were little, um, and we would go to the beach and at the beach you kind of see everybody's artwork, uh, and then on the way home from the beach I would go. They would tiny, they could be like first grade, and then they were their whole lives, although on the way drive home from the beach is like 20 minutes for us, maybe half an hour if there's traffic, and so on the way home I'd go okay, today's the day we're all going to get tattoos, what are you getting? And then they'd all have to come up with something. And my daughter I remember my daughter going my little pony, and at one point my son wanted to do this whole minecraft up his leg. He actually designed it once, um, and you know then an infinity sign. And my other son, my middle son, pie, and then I'm gonna have the whole, all the like as many numbers that I can have all the way down, like we had all these fun things throughout their lives of all the different tattoos they had.

Speaker 3: 52:39

My son who had Tommy John's surgery. He was a baseball player, even in college. After, after his surgery, he's like I'm going to have a tattoo where I put flames of my arm Once I start, you know, throwing a hundred again, and so it's always been a thing, but no one had ever gotten a tattoo because I would remind them. Okay, if you had gotten that that's what you love so much, right, then you're willing to put it on your body. That would still be on your body and you've got so like.

Speaker 3: 53:06

I believe life is full of chapters and change and you can decide who you're going to be. I don't want anything on my body that's going to define who I am right now, because I may not want to be this person in the future. I may want to be a different version of me, and so good or bad, you know. So I would always tell my kids that, like, just think you would have my daughter, would have like my little pony, and then a heart and then an infinity sign and then her best friend's name, who's not her best friend anymore. She hasn't spoke to that girl in 10 years, all the things. So, anyway, that's my tattoo.

Speaker 3: 53:34

And then I mentioned Ryan Holiday has his book up one of his arms and, in Obstacles the Way and one of the other books up the other arm and I'm like he's so young I guess I'm older than he is I'm like he's going to run out of space. That boy needs to stop writing. He needs a smaller font. If he's going to do this, he needs to choose a smaller font. He says he's going to run out of space to put all his books on his body.

Speaker 1: 53:56

Yeah, I have a tattoo, I got a tattoo. So actually, my best friend from college, we, when we he just actually he and his wife visited last night, they left. I told you. They left this morning and he and I went in when we were in college we were both playing rugby and at the time rugby was our thing. You know that we are just diehard rugby. Uh, you know fanatics and um, we both got a rugby tattoo. He got Andy Kapp, um and what's the our team name on it. And then I got another, just a rugby player that a friend of mine had designed and drawn. And the weird thing is we left and about a week later maybe not even that all the ink from that tattoo. This was back in the day.

Speaker 1: 54:32

This was in the height of the aids crisis and we went to a guy who we paid to have him do our tattoos in his house. We didn't know him. I said, well, what do?

Speaker 3: 54:41

he goes go to the store.

Speaker 1: 54:42

All of this sounds bad it's all bad, thank you, we survived this. But he didn't even change the ink from one person, the other or the thing he just dipped in alcohol. We watched him and we didn't think anything. I mean how I paid the guy. I said so what do we owe you? Go up to the store and get my old lady a half gallon of vodka, that'd be good. That's how we paid the guy. But anyway, the the ink was faulty and it rose to the surface and just peeled off. So we had to go back in and get our tattoos redone on the open scar tissue wound of the original one and it hurt like hell. It hurt like hell. That's commitment, right, it's commitment.

Speaker 1: 55:22

I wanted that tattoo, so I still have it. It's getting faded now. Now my daughter has on her wrist. I always told her when she was younger remember who you are. And so every letter, um, everything was r-W-Y-A. You know when I wrote her letters and stuff. So she has R-W-Y-A on her wrist. Now my son, dawson, he loves the tattoos, he's got some tattoos on his arm and he's a fighter, he's a boxer, he's a black belt in karate. So he has that. You know he's got some stuff. But everything I tell them you can get tattoos, but they have to mean something. You can't just go pick something out of a book and say I want that drawing.

Speaker 3: 55:54

No, they have to mean something, to symbolize something well, you know, that's a very on brand for your son to have tattoos. So mine never got any until my son got married uh, my oldest uh and he and his wife got little matching tattoos, so that's kind of cool, um, but I and I think you know, know, and she's so funny, she has other artwork and she's one that doesn't have to mean anything, she just thinks it's pretty and wants to put it on her body. I'm like that's fine too, I guess, for some people. But I was on the same vein as you for my children. I think my biggest thing was, until they were out of college, I said I don't want anything to define you. I want you to decide who you want to be, and that's what college is for. I don't want you to put anything on your body. I actually need to deal with them. No ink on your body and no babies, no pregnancy, and I will pay for college every freaking penny of it. So they did. They got out and they knew that was part of the deal.

Speaker 3: 56:51

I probably would have smudged and done it anyway because I wanted them to have an education, but that was the deal and they took me seriously because I just wanted and it wasn't anything pro or con for other people who take other routes, but for my guys, who I know very well and how smart they are and how driven they are, and they're my kids, unfortunately they're a lot like me and fortunately and unfortunately, but Um and and, unfortunately and unfortunately. But I just wanted them to have a clean slate when they got out of college. I wanted them to be able to go to college and have to be whoever they wanted to be, without any commitment to anything, cause once you write something on your body, you kind of you're that guy, you're the one that you're committed to that thing. And I just wanted them to have a clean slate. And, uh, now, you know they, they are all very different. My, you know, they are all very different.

Speaker 3: 57:35

My daughter's an AI in New York. My son's fourth year med school. My other son's in the Air Force. He is out in Tinker Air Force Base. He's doing his thing out there. So I just wanted them to have a clean slate. That was my thing with tattoos, just until you figure out who you want to be and it's up to you to put them on you. And if you're Ryan Holiday and you're listening, please choose a smaller font, because you're going to run out of space.

Speaker 1: 57:54

We try to get. Actually I didn't, but one of my guests has been trying to get Ryan Holiday on the show, so hopefully we'll get him on someday. I would not have. I would have been the black sheep of your family because in college I had a baby and a tattoo, so my college would not have been paid for if you were my mother.

Speaker 3: 58:10

Yep, you wouldn't have.

Speaker 1: 58:12

And I wouldn't be able to talk to you on this podcast right now either.

Speaker 3: 58:15

Well, you know, that's why I said everybody's route is different. That's the route I wanted for my children. Yeah, it's the route. You know, my brother's kids didn't go to college. They went on and did their careers right out of high school and they've had great success. It's whatever your route is.

Speaker 1: 58:37

But that was the route my kids, you set expectations and that was my expectation. I said well, from what I can tell, the route you, they've chosen, that you helped create for them, has worked is working for all three of them.

Speaker 3: 58:42

So so far so good. You know, parenting is is uh, you don't. You get it. I always say I always lost parent of the year by January 3rd, like really I don't ever get it all right, but I try my best, I did the work and I feel like I made really good humans, you know.

Speaker 1: 58:56

Well, I hope your son in the Air Force knows how much we appreciate his service to our country too.

Speaker 3: 59:00

So that goes without saying Thank you for saying so, Of course of course, I have a question for you Right now.

Speaker 1: 59:07

You've got I mean, we're going to do another show together. I hope you know that. Oh, I hope you know that. Oh, I hope so. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna do another show. But I want to ask you right now, with all you've accomplished and all you've gone through, what do you consider to be a victory in life right now? What's a big win for you?

Speaker 3: 59:23

well, we just said it. A big win for me is my kids all happy and healthy. That is it like that to make humans and I always go. And I made little humans and they don't suck and I'm out, I'm done. So big, big wins for me are I'm only as happy as my saddest kid. You know that's a big win for me.

Speaker 1: 59:39

And how many quotes do you have in your, in your arsenal?

Speaker 3: 59:42

Oh, I got a bunch of them. If you consider that a quote, that's a good one, though, but I think a lot of parents are that way. I think you're like as much as I built mine, built mine to go out and be in the world and have wings and do their own thing when they're struggling. It's, it's all. It's on me like it's on my mind, it's in my brain, it's who it's part of me it eats, ass, it eats.

Speaker 1: 1:00:11

Yes, it does. It's just like. Oh, I can't like. I was um, my son and I were having an argument, uh, maybe eight months ago, and I was um it just something. It was via text, I think, you know, maybe this phone call just a stupid argument on the phone, you know, then we both kind of I gotta go and you know, just immature on my end and I was reading a book.

Speaker 1: 1:00:31

Um, my goodness, I'm gonna feel awful if I can't think of nudges from the other side. I believe I had mary on my end and I was reading a book. My goodness, I'm going to feel awful if I can't think of it Nudges from the Other Side. I believe I had Mary on my show, the author, a couple of times and as I was reading her book before she came on the show the first time, she had lost her son to a car accident and I was just reading the book. And I'm teared up reading this book, nina, I'm sitting at my house alone. It was like last fall sometime up reading this book. Nina, I'm sitting at my house alone. You know, it was like last fall sometime, and December maybe, and I'm tearing up reading this book and I thought and here I just had an argument with my son over something I at the time was like 20- minutes later.

Speaker 1: 1:01:02

I'm like what did we even argue about. I think we're just both in bad moods. So I shot him a call or a text and said, hey, I and I texted him. I said, hey, I want you to know I love you and I'm so very proud of you. And and of course, right away, hey, dad, I love you too, I can't wait to see you this weekend type of thing. I'm like we are kids. Emotions, good and bad, they pervade us, they, they, they carry me or they bring me down. I mean, because they're always like I love that I'm, you're only as happy as your saddest kid.

Speaker 3: 1:01:28

It's powerful dude.

Speaker 1: 1:01:30

Thanks, I like it too. I think that way a lot.

Speaker 3: 1:01:32

I'd even call you dude, by the way.

Speaker 1: 1:01:33

Dude, you can totally call me dude, I want to be a dude.

Speaker 3: 1:01:35

I mean, that's kind of a dude.

Speaker 1: 1:01:37

I was talking to a prospect yesterday on the phone for the first time. I'd never met her before. We talked for like 40 minutes. I'd love to get this client on. I'm pretty positive that I will. But I was talking to her the first time and like three times I called her dude and I kept correcting myself. Finally she goes. You called me dude again and I said I know I did and at the end she goes when you come into town we're going to have to get dinner together because this is an interesting conversation. But you know I knew she was not like I felt awful because I had just come off vacation. I'd spent like a week and a half with some friends and I, you know my mouth got a little vulgar during that week and a half and you know calling my friends dude and man, you know just stupid and I just that, both that vernacular, that vocabulary, just kind of carried over through the work week.

Speaker 3: 1:02:22

So, um anyway, so I take it as a compliment. I feel like if you call me dude, we're now friends. Yeah, that's how I think of it. You wouldn't call me dude unless you felt really comfortable with me and thought I was a friend or someone you'd want to be friends with. I'm taking I'm taking dude as a compliment. I'm owning it.

Speaker 1: 1:02:37

You made the mistake of calling me from your cell phone, didn't you?

Speaker 3: 1:02:40

I did.

Speaker 1: 1:02:41

I'm a texter man oh there you go. I'm one of those texters at five. Hey dude, get up and tackle the world. Man I think it was one of my uncles would say get up and piss the world's on fire.

Speaker 3: 1:02:55

Oh my gosh, there's a couple of those morning mantra folks who say hilarious things that I do tap into some mornings.

Speaker 1: 1:03:02

I know One of my friends. Every time I call him I'll say how are you today? I call him Chum. His name is Steve. He'll say if I was any better, vitamins would take me in the morning.

Speaker 3: 1:03:12

That's good.

Speaker 1: 1:03:17

I haven't was any better. Vitamins would take me in the morning. Okay, I have another question. I love this question. You know, and I think I probably you've given so much, uh, really useful wisdom, a very practical wisdom today. But and so I kind of think I the gist of the answer that I think I'm, I think I think I know what I'm going to hear, but I don't know if I'm going to fly down to charleston today. I'm not coming up. I'm going to bring my time machine with me and we're going to go back in time. You pick the time of your life. I don't care if it's 16, 19, or 37. Pick a time frame in your life and you sit down and we go down and we visit your younger former self and I'm just going to sit and observe.

Speaker 3: 1:03:58

What lessons would you tell that younger nina? Oh well, I thought about this. Um, uh, younger nina's nina in general, and better at it. Now that I'm a little older, I'm tough on myself. I would tell myself to be kinder to me, especially kinder to me as I age. Uh, because we all you know that that useful energy and exuberance and all of that is fantastic, but you do have to be a little kinder and gentler with your brain and your body as you get older and take care of yourself. But I would tell myself it's okay to not be okay, but don't stay that way and be kind to yourself and give yourself some grace when you are not being a rock star.

Speaker 1: 1:04:34

Okay, I'm just trying to write this down. So I'm going to repeat this. Back to the bamboo pack, because I know somebody out there right now, one of you right now, is thinking that you're just not in a good place. I know that, and many more than just one. But I'm talking to you right now. You're not feeling okay. It's okay to feel that way right now, but just don't stay there. Don't stay there.

Speaker 1: 1:04:57

Think about who will you be on the other side of this. As Nina said, you will be different. You won't be the same and it's your choice to be either a stronger, better version of yourself or a weaker, less version of yourself. Who will you be? And give yourself some grace. Just give yourself some grace. Take care of yourself, your mind, your body, your spirit, your heart. Take care of who you are right now and be okay with where you are, but just make sure you don't stay there very long, because you will come out of this a different person and it's your choice who you will be when you come out of it. So thank you for that wisdom. That's amazing.

Speaker 3: 1:05:32

Very well said. I like the way you said it. You put it all back together there. That was really powerful, Brian.

Speaker 1: 1:05:37

Thanks. Well, you're welcome. Thank you, man. You're just giving me so much ammunition here. Like I, literally as we're going through the show, I always think, okay, what is going to be today's title of this episode? Now, AI generates a bunch of potential titles for me. Sometimes I choose them, Usually, I mean sometimes I choose them.

Speaker 3: 1:05:57

Usually I doctor them up a little bit with you. I'm like I don't really know there's so many. It's been. You know. It's interesting because I had a hard time as I'm a keynoter and I had a hard time describing what I talk about and what I do, because there's a lot to it. So I'll be interested to see what you come up with.

Speaker 1: 1:06:11

You'll get the view. So how it works and and I was going to tell you this after, but for the bamboo pack, I don't know if you know how this works. When I shoot an episode, it goes through AI editing really within an hour or two after we're done recording and then I doctor it up. My mother, who happy birthday mom yesterday. My mother, dolores, turned 89 years old yesterday and she is Happy birthday mom and she is thank you, she's going to love it.

Speaker 1: 1:06:32

She, she is the most amazing woman. My friends who visited me last night. They stopped on Monday and spent an hour at her house and brought her flowers. And my friends got here last night and my, my friend, gretchen. She said I want to be your mom when I get older, cause she's 89. She still works. Nina works part-time. She walks every day with her best friend, opal. Um, she's incredibly active. Her mind is as sharp as it ever has been. I mean, she just continues to continue to get better and better.

Speaker 3: 1:06:59

Amazing.

Speaker 1: 1:07:01

Yeah, she's an amazing woman. So happy birthday, mom. I love you so much. So my mom is the first one who gets a copy of the show. I text it to her and she listens to it when she goes to bed. So then, nina, you'll get a copy right away and then you can look at the title and if you like it, you know we'll, we'll stick with it. If you think of something better, let me know.

Speaker 3: 1:07:16

So anyway, I trust you, I trust you and AI and your mother.

Speaker 1: 1:07:21

Yeah, my mom always gives me thumbs up or thumbs down. She'll say, oh, I love that one. I didn't really like that one so much. That person talked too fast. I'm like, okay, so she's. My mom is so brutally honest, so I like it. We all need a mom like that. Oh my gosh, she is the greatest. Okay. So I have one more question, anina. Um, and this is the, is there any question that I didn't ask that you wish I would have asked? Or is there any final message that you want to capsulate? Leave with the bamboo pack gosh.

Speaker 3: 1:07:51

Well, my final message is always that it's okay to not be okay. Just don't stay that way. No, I think we've captured everything. We went through it. I call. I'll throw this out there to end with.

Speaker 3: 1:08:04

When you're going on a road trip, folks, and you hit an obstacle or you hit something in your path, your GPS will say recalculating route and figure out a way to get you there. It may not be the nicest route that you want to do, or maybe you want to pull off to the side of the road and wait a minute and get back on that same road. Whatever it is, be it traffic and what we're talking about today. This is your internal GPS saying recalculating route and figuring out a way forward. Like, wouldn't it be nice if the universe had something where this is where you are, this is where you're going? Let me recalculate that for you.

Speaker 3: 1:08:39

But this concept of putting it in your timeline and figuring out exactly what you're dealing with and pulling out some people and working on your language and self-sabotage and that self-talking story, that is your, what I call your resilience route navigator, that is your internal GPS and you need to build that. You just need to build that into your practice of how you handle things when they don't go right. There we go. Long answer to a quick question.

Speaker 1: 1:09:04

Resilience route navigator. Now is that in your book?

Speaker 3: 1:09:07

That is not. That is in the book that I'm working on now.

Speaker 1: 1:09:10

That's in the middle of the.

Speaker 3: 1:09:11

this is the research and work that I'm putting out now. So when you said, what else have I not shared? I haven't shared that as much, but that is the book that's in the works now, and I really think it's going to be helpful for so many people.

Speaker 1: 1:09:22

Now, when is that?

Speaker 3: 1:09:25

When's the release date scheduled? For that? It is not scheduled. So this is a book I'm writing for, really focused on corporate America and people who are in what I call the excellence exhaustion so not burnout, but just constantly raising the bar and doing more, and raising the bar and do more, and the goal was to get this out. I would like to get it out in February, march of next year. That would be my goal, but I have there'll be a lot of my blogs and all of that from here, so then will be a lot of this content.

Speaker 1: 1:09:51

OK, so let's do this, let's informally, right now, commit to you coming on the show right when your book, right before your book, is released, whenever that is next year and we can really, I really want to maybe I can get a pre-copy of that book.

Speaker 3: 1:10:03

Oh, I would love that If you want to be one of my early readers. I like that.

Speaker 1: 1:10:07

I would love to. I had a lady on well, gwendolyn Bounds is her name, wendy Bounds. She's written a couple of amazing books. The first one was Little Chapel on the River, which I highly recommend. She was in her apartment right next to the World Trade Center when the planes hit and she had to escape the city and then she and her partner went up to upstate New York to kind of regroup and they found this little Irish bar and they fell in love with the people and she wrote a book about it. It was, it was cap, it encapsulated, it just was one of the most amazing books I've ever read. And, um, I got a hold of her a few years ago. We became friends and and she was on the show a couple years ago and she wrote another book never too old or not too old about her now journey in her 50s of becoming a Spartan racer and doing all these high endurance runs and races.

Speaker 3: 1:10:54

Oh my gosh, I've done some of those.

Speaker 1: 1:10:56

She was a journalist as well. She was on Good Morning America. She was a journalist and an on-air personality. Then she worked for Consumer Reports. Now she works for Upstart News Source. But her book that book right there is so good. It's so good when you're in your 50s and you just want to start over or change a little bit of who you are. It talks about what you can accomplish in the second half of your life. It's really good, I love that it really ties into your stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:11:23

So I know Wendy's listening to it, so shout out to her book too. That's a great book, all right. So let's get you back, would love that. I I'd like to do another episode in the fall with. You've got so much to unpack here and I know I just sense that we've just scratched the surface of this iceberg well, I would love to, brian, you call me.

Speaker 3: 1:11:40

You let me know um, I'd love to. In the fall I can talk to you more about this, my new concept around burnout and the work that I'm doing in that research too.

Speaker 1: 1:11:48

It's really fascinating what we're doing to our own bodies, so yeah, I think I need to that that story just as much as anybody does. So, yeah, I will. Well, I got your number so I can text you anytime now. And, by the way, I do want to show it to to Amilca, your publicist, from from. Podcast Cola, she's the one. Is it Castillo? Yes, amilca Castillo. I know she'll be listening to this Excellent work getting us together. I was so impressed with her.

Speaker 3: 1:12:16

I am new. Yeah, I am new with them and I have had some great experiences. They've really been fun to work with. They found me, they found me you, so I'm thankful for that.

Speaker 1: 1:12:24

I love it. Yeah, she reached out to me after listening to one of the episodes or something and she said I love the way you, who's an author and, um, I, yeah, that sounds great. So she sent me all your bio and your website and all your links and this and that. So I'm like, yeah, let's get her on. So I appreciate it, thank you, and I'll go appreciate you getting us together.

Speaker 3: 1:12:42

Now I have a new friend absolutely you're gonna get early morning text from me now, because we're both on the east coast.

Speaker 1: 1:12:49

At least that's not a problem that's true it's my clients on the west coast and I forget. I you know I get up at usually 5 to 5.30 is my time frame every day and I'll be sitting there doing my stuff and I'll text clients out. I'm like oh, it's only three o'clock their time. I hope their phone's turned off. I've had a few people get pretty upset with me. I'm like sorry, won't happen again.

Speaker 3: 1:13:07

Well, hopefully they have.

Speaker 1: 1:13:08

Of my bonus sons Evan and his wife Sandy just had a baby last Wednesday I believe Tuesday or Wednesday and I have to remember all my children are in in Michigan, um I so I have two biological children, ashley and Dawson, and I have three bonus sons, adam, evan and Taylor, and they're all three are now married and, uh, I can't text our family texts, which I text for five to six times a week. I can't text all my kids and their spouses until like nine o'clock because they're they're in Lake Tahoe. Evan and Sandy are. They just had a baby.

Speaker 3: 1:13:42

So I always have to wait, and they've got little ones, yeah, yeah, they've got little ones, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:13:45

They just got a like a literally a week old actually a week old today, so anyway, Anyway, all right, my friend, hey, I just want to let you know this was an incredible honor to get to know you today and it was such a pleasure to have you on the show.

Speaker 3: 1:13:58

So fun, Brian. I'm excited to hear how this all turned out. This has been a winding conversation, but I've got to find out where your website is here on my computer. There we go.

Speaker 1: 1:14:17

I want to leave with a quote, because in your website you have quoted yourself. Your quote was I want to be in a room full of smart, hardworking people who are facing a challenge or change and embolden them to keep going. Then give them the tools to handle anything that gets in their way. You have done exactly that today on the Bamboo Lab podcast, so I can't thank you enough.

Speaker 3: 1:14:39

My pleasure and thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 1: 1:14:41

Oh, you're welcome. All right, everyone, I know you're all going to be remember, send those heart letters in. You're going to love this. I know you're going to love Nina and her content and her wisdom and her experience. So please share with me, so I can share with her what this episode, what her lessons and her wisdom and experience have done for you by listening to her story. Please hit that like button, smash that like button, actually Really rate, review us and please share this episode with three people you love, because there's so much that can help them. Help them change the perspective on anything that they're going through or will go through in their lives. So please do that. I'll talk to all of you in a week. In the meantime, please get out there and strive to be and give your best. Please show love and respect to others and to yourself, and please, by all means, live with a purpose. I appreciate each and every single one of you. Until next time.