Guiding The Youth Towards Positive Mental Heath: Jeff Howard's Story - Latter-Day Lights

Note: This episode discusses various issues that our youth are facing today, including suicide and how to recognize and help those who may be struggling; however, the overall message is positive, and emphasizes faith and hope.

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In this episode, Jeff Howard, a high-school counselor discusses the alarming mental state of our youth and the difficult issues and challenges that they face today, along with some positive breakthroughs that he's had through the power of connection and communication.

Our conversation also discusses the intricate tapestry of spirituality and mental wellness within the LDS community. With Jeff's guidance, we confront the stigmas and silence that can cloak these issues, shining a light on the importance of open dialogue and the role of resources that can support our children's journeys.

By embracing the notion that each soul is a treasured child of God, we recognize the power we hold to uplift, heal, and perhaps even save lives through the simple act of sharing a story with a message.

*** Please SHARE Jeff's story and help us spread hope and light to others. ***

To WATCH this episode on YouTube, visit: https://youtu.be/w_DtThH6I_I

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To READ Jeff's book "Screw You Van Gough", visit (direct link): https://www.amazon.com/Screw-You-Gogh-Jeff-Howard/dp/B08JVLBXK8

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Also, if you have a faith-promoting or inspiring story, or know someone who does, please let us know by going to https://www.latterdaylights.com and reaching out to us.

Transcript

Scott Brandley: 0:00

Hi everyone, I'm Scott Brandley.

Alisha Coakley: 0:02

And I'm Alisha Coakley. Every member of the church has a story to share, one that can instill faith, invite growth and inspire others.

Scott Brandley: 0:10

On today's episode we're going to hear how one school counselor is helping spread the message of God's love to students struggling with mental health. Welcome to Latter-day Lights. Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Latter-day Lights. We're so glad you're here with us today and we're really glad to, and excited to, introduce our guest to you today, jeff Howard. Jeff, how are you doing today? I'm great, thank you.

Jeff Howard: 0:45

I'm doing just fine.

Alisha Coakley: 0:52

Yeah, thanks for joining us and thanks for reaching out to us too. We are definitely excited to hear more of your story, and we think that it's got a really, really great message, and so we appreciate you finding us. How did you find us, actually?

Jeff Howard: 1:05

I uh uh wrote a book and I'm looking for opportunities to promote it. And, of course, I went online and and, uh, I did look up LDS oriented podcast. You came up, I sent out a proposal, you know, a query to be connected. That was great.

Alisha Coakley: 1:22

All right. Well, I'm excited to have you, and so is Scott, so that's really cool. So well, now we know you're an author, so what is the name of your book?

Jeff Howard: 1:34

I'll be the first to admit that it's a rather irreverent title. It's called Screw you, van Gogh. But that's an important part of the book. It's a squeaky clean novel. Anybody can read it. But I recognize that that's a rather different title.

Alisha Coakley: 1:54

I love it. It instantly makes me want to read it, just to find out, like, what the heck it's about. So I think that's fantastic.

Scott Brandley: 2:03

Yeah, I'm in marketing and I think, yeah, you got to stand out, right, you got to do something to get people's attention. So, right, yeah.

Jeff Howard: 2:14

No, when the editor began first contacted me, she said I want to find out what Van Gogh could have done to make you so angry. Nothing, in fact. It's complimentary about the man, oh okay.

Alisha Coakley: 2:29

Well, it's definitely got us intrigued. That's for sure Very cool. Well, other than being an author, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, Jeff?

Jeff Howard: 2:39

Okay, well, I have been some sort of a writer my whole life. Early in my adult life, I was what you call an outdoor freelance writer. I love the outdoors, being from the upper Midwest, and I would write newspaper stories, magazine articles, television scripts, things like that regarding the outdoors. But life progressed and I got in more into the public relations, marketing, writing, copywriting, things like that, press releases and such, and I'm kind of a classic example of a person life where you have different careers and things, and I certainly did and.

Jeff Howard: 3:23

But I decided to reinvent myself and I got a my teaching certificate in high school language arts or an English teacher, and I did that about 20 years ago and loved it. But I always was envious of the school counselors, what they were doing, and so I, during the summer, would take courses and eventually earn my license and applied for an opening and spent the last 17 years as a high school counselor, and though I continued to teach English as needed, sometimes I taught some English online courses, college level courses, so, uh, so that's what brought me to uh being a writer as well as a school counselor, and by writing. For a while there was essays and poetry and things I put I'd publish on the internet and sell the magazines and things.

Alisha Coakley: 4:20

So that is so cool, that's awesome. Yeah, and then what about you know? Are you married kids, Any of that kind of fun stuff?

Jeff Howard: 4:31

Yes, I got married in a timely fashion after I came home from my mission.

Alisha Coakley: 4:35

You were in a menace to society.

Jeff Howard: 4:38

I heard that twice today about referring to menaces of society. No, my wife joined the church and was living with a family in my home. I came home and met her and it was meant to be. We got married. Yeah, we have four children, adult children. Now They've all got 10 grandchildren. So, yes, it's a good life. That's cool.

Scott Brandley: 5:07

Awesome. Well, why don't you share your story with us today, Jeff Sure?

Jeff Howard: 5:15

I've given you my background, my career, and I was an English teacher and loved it, and I quickly would become very attached to my students and it was my second year and again, you know, attached to all my students and find out that one of my students had taken his life and died a result of suicide One of my past students, and that was obviously a shock. But the big question was how come? Why? Because he always seemed like such a pleasant young man, happy and well-disposed, just a nice young guy, and I was taken with how it affected the other students too. Now they had already moved on to 10th grade and they were in another building and how almost every one of those fellow students who came back to the school and would come into my room and talk about this young man and it was just a side of things that was not pleasant at all. And I don't think it's any secret today.

Jeff Howard: 6:28

The situation with mental health and teenagers today it's a terrible trend and over the years I had six of my students die from suicide. Oh my gosh, and we had one. And then we're just a typical, you know, minnesota, rural, minnesota school and you find out that that is going on everywhere. And then we had a particularly difficult one where we had a young man take his life and of course, when that happens the school counselors become. You know, we get out amongst the kids, we invite them to come in and talk to us and one particular student was taking the student's death really hard. I can still see him now sitting on the floor of the hall just sobbing. His uncle came in and sat with him. His uncle was a teacher to help him through this and then, horribly, three weeks later he took his life. And that's when it came to me, as I said, what is going on here and that is making these young people do it. Because those two boys both came from well-adjusted families, they were active in their churches, they were in sports, they were popular in their class. At least one of them had mentors through his church and I remember just sitting there going what is happening and I came to the conclusion that we as a nation, a country, as educators, are missing the boat here. We're missing something Because both these boys, all these kids, but particularly these two boys, they'd been to assemblies where people came and spoke. They had the wristbands, you know 1-800, you know, you know suicide hotlines. They had all this awareness that in their lives, yet they chose to do that and I thought number one, why are they doing it? Number two, we need to change or adjust what we're doing here.

Jeff Howard: 8:49

But I didn't. I didn't, yeah, I just kept it in my own head. I didn't think how, and different people are talking about and I would talk about. You know my experiences as a school educator and as a council of people that said you need to write a book, you know, and I'd go like, no, thank you. You know, I'd written some people and say you need to write a book, and I'd go like no, thank you, I'd written enough and I was not interested in writing a book.

Jeff Howard: 9:07

Well, after this event, and I remember, with my English students, english class students, we'd have literature circles where kids would read a novel, discuss it in depth for a period of like three weeks, and all the experts will tell you that the best thing that fragile youth can do is to talk to somebody, hopefully a responsible adult, and rather than do something terrible, they would talk to somebody. It would save lives and I put it together. Somebody. It would save lives and I put it together. Why not write a book that kids can read and discuss mental health, suicide ideation, what causes it and the proper way to respond to it.

Jeff Howard: 9:57

And I thought I would write a book if I could come up with something. And I sat on it for a while. And I attended a conference, a mental health conference down in St Paul, when I thought a really, really sharp guy. He gave a talk and he said that these kids need to understand one thing he said, and that is suicide. If you had the chance to survive a suicide, you would tell people how much of a terrible, regretful decision that is. And he cites an actual event. There's a man named Kevin Hines who's a pretty prolific speaker and he jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge and survived the fall and he's becoming more and more people are recognizing that now.

Alisha Coakley: 10:43

His story is fantastic and he's becoming more and more people are recognizing that now.

Jeff Howard: 10:46

His story is fantastic. It is, and he really reaches kids because he tells them. He said the minute that I pushed off the bridge, he says I immediately highly regretted what I did. He said there's just that most kids can't tell people about that. You know, with the nature of suicide, he says I've been able to and I thought to myself there's the hook, that's what these kids need to know.

Jeff Howard: 11:13

Because I would have kids come in my office and say, like you know, they were so sad that so-and-so was now dead and they were my best friend. And I would say well, how do you see them now? And they always picture these kids as, oh, there's some disembodied spirit now. They hover over us and love us and care for us and they have this in their mind that that's not a bad way to go, where, in reality, kevin Hines says no, you have a high level of regret. You will wish that you hadn't done it. And this guy said so. Kids need to hear this. So there was my. What I wanted to. One of the messages of this novel, screw Van Gogh, is that and I'm sensitive about telling the story or the what's the word? The telling the story beforehand. You know, spoiler alerts. That's what I'm thinking. How do you go for a spoiler alert? You know?

Scott Brandley: 12:12

Yeah.

Jeff Howard: 12:15

So anyway, yes, so I did over the course of the next year, during the summer, of course, I did write the story and self-published it, and it's been out for a little while now and had awesome reviews. I've read the book with either parts of the book, the whole book, with probably over 70 students. Wow, and had awesome, dramatic results that I was hoping for. So I'm just starting off now trying to figure out what to do with it a little bit Wow.

Scott Brandley: 12:51

So is it written as a story, or is it more just like informative information that they can discuss? What's the format? It's a novel.

Jeff Howard: 13:01

It's a fiction story. A fiction story Main characters both of them are two young ladies who, in their own way and I should talk to somebody, and to do that I had to do certain things. With the book Number one, I had to make the story very relatable. The story is actually a composite of hundreds of my students, especially a few actually events with students and conversations, the whole screw you, van Gogh and the whole. I'll tell you more about the puzzle thing was an actual young lady that I worked with and had a great relationship with. What they do and say are things that I've had students tell me and I knew I had to make the story relatable and it does. I had to make the readers learn to really really love these characters and become very attached to them.

Jeff Howard: 14:18

I knew that my favorite authors, like with Murder Mysteries, are very good at getting into the mind of the criminally insane, the bad guys, and so I wanted to talk from the main character's point of view. When it comes to depression, fears, what it's like to have a panic attack, fears, what it's like to have a panic attack, the rationale, the thinking that goes on, and I talked to a lot of kids about that and it was a goal of mine and I believe I was successful in capturing those feelings to these main characters. So yeah, it was, and I'd like to think that there was some inspiration here. The book and the ending, the way that the one of the characters comes back from the afterlife, is I go back in our church experience of there is an afterlife, that we continue to grow, and so I use that in the book.

Alisha Coakley: 15:30

Wow. So I don't know if I'm staying on topic or going off topic, but I'm curious. One of the thoughts that I have is in your experience as a school counselor and with your training and building these relationships with kids and everything like that, do you feel like there has been an increase in, like mental health struggles and suicidal ideation, or do you feel like it's kind of always been there but it's just more talked about now?

Jeff Howard: 15:59

We would have a program in our school of twice a week. Kids could pick what they do for a 45-minute. We'd hope they would go, get help from teachers and get their academics going. But we gave them choice and one of mine was a what to do if your days aren't good in high school. In other words, it was. You know. I would have kids come in and I probably over the course of the year, had maybe 70 different kids attend that and I would ask them almost every week.

Jeff Howard: 16:30

I said now, do you feel that you have more mental health issues today than, for example, your parents or grandparents? And I got lots of answers, but the most common one was no. They said it's just that today there are more things that exacerbate depression, anxiety, and they're saying that that's and it's becoming more. You know, kids as a general, as a whole, are tend to react more to things today and those things are. They won't be surprises to people. We have our culture wars today, we have political unrest, we have a pandemic we just went through, and students will always their number one answer always is, of course, social media, what it does in so many ways, and the numbers are really interesting Students that are on seven or more platforms in other words, if they're on YouTube, twitter, tiktok are dramatically more susceptible to mental health issues than students who aren't on many platforms. Yeah, there's all kinds of research and evidence today now more susceptible to mental health issues than students who aren't on many platforms.

Jeff Howard: 17:48

There's all kinds of research and evidence today, now that social media. When you think about it, if I asked you two and all of our listeners when their most difficult times were emotionally, they almost always will say high school years, because it's just that perfect storm of hormones and growing and figuring out who you are, and mostly it's just that intense social life that they spend. It's who's who, who's popular and their self-image is at an all-time low. With all of us, when we're teenagers, we're always worried about how we look and how we seem. So all these kids all have this little thing in their pocket, their phone, that at any moment this little thing can send them into a euphoria of people love me or it can send them spiraling down into people hate me in just moments. And so if that had gone down with our parents, our grandparents, who knows how they would have reacted? So kids will tell you again that they don't necessarily have it more today. It's just that things are drawn out more today and kids are more prone to act on things today negative things.

Alisha Coakley: 19:07

That's a really interesting perspective. Yeah, like I've always struggled with that, I'm like, well, I don't understand, like what's making it more so? But I guess, yeah, that feels pretty accurate to me that it's not that they have more, they just have a lot of other triggers, I guess.

Jeff Howard: 19:23

Right, yes, exactly.

Alisha Coakley: 19:25

So that's really, really interesting. Do you feel like um? I mean, I know when we look statistically at the numbers it's typically um boys or teen, like teen boys, men. They tend to have a much higher suicide rate than than girls do. What do you think, what do you think contributes to that?

Jeff Howard: 19:51

Well, the evidence is sound that more boys commit suicide, die from suicide than girls do. In fact, it's five times as more boys do. However, three times more girls attempt suicide than boys.

Alisha Coakley: 20:10

Really.

Jeff Howard: 20:11

Yes, and it's kind of an ugly thought, but it's just what boys can do tend to be a little more bold. Boys have access to firearms. Girls often use drugs and drugs is a me, you know and there is a lot of cries for help, where they'll take some drugs and be rushed to the emergency room. Boys tend to use methods that are final, but the gap is closing. It is closing.

Alisha Coakley: 20:53

Oh, it's so scary, I did not. I had no idea, yeah, oh, my goodness.

Scott Brandley: 21:01

So where does the title of the book come into play?

Jeff Howard: 21:06

Well, I love this part of the story, but some years ago I had two colleagues in my high school with me, two other counselors. We'd split the kids up just by their last name, alphabetically, and we always would talk. You know what we can do. We always would talk. You know what we can do, and a lot of times when you call a student down to your office, it's to discuss. You know why aren't you. You know what's wrong, you're failing classes or some of the reasons, and they're not really happy to come in and see you, of course. But so I wanted to do something where a student could come down and see me and we could do something together. And I thought why not a good old fashioned jigsaw puzzle? We all will walk by. If someone's got a puzzle going on their house, everybody wants to add a piece here. So I decided I was going to get a puzzle and I would talk to my two colleagues and I would say what's it going to be of? And I was, I don't know. I said, but eventually, the one thing that so many kids find interest in is Van Gogh and his most famous painting, which I bet you can fill in the blank Starry Night. Okay. So I, in fact I knew I was gonna do this tonight, so I have it here. Okay, there's my, there's my puzzle of starry night right here. That's, that's the, that's the one. And I brought this to school and I was going to do it with my students while we talked, it would come, you know, calm them down and we would have something to talk about. And, of course, the life of Vincent van Gogh is full of relatable things addiction, relationships, everything and kids tend to enjoy, you know, not enjoy, but talk about things like that. So I got it and I had it in my office.

Jeff Howard: 22:57

Well, at the start of a school year, kids move into towns during the summer and then they come to school, they go come see their counselor to pick their classes and things. They're new to the school and that's just a very big thing at that time of the year. And so I was going to have a young lady come in with her mother, and so she did. She was from out of town and they came in and I did something that was really wrong, and that's I stereotyped them. You know, they looked like they had. Things have been kind of tough. The mom was making very little money girl, a lovely young woman, but she had this garish makeup on, which is okay, you know that in itself, but you couldn't help but notice she had. She took her eyeliner and she would draw way up here like wings. You know, and you learn early in a career that you know kids do all kinds of things to express themselves and it's all good, you know, it's a nice thing, but you couldn't help but notice it.

Jeff Howard: 24:08

And so I, part of the she was behind in credits and I kept thinking, oh, this is not gonna go well, and so we were kind of wrapping things up and I said well, do you know any kids in Brainerd here? Do you have any friends? And the girl sat there for a while, going to be a sophomore, so she's like 15 years old, and she says no, she says but you can be my friend, right, and I had never had a pet, said to me before. And I said of course I can. You know. I said, in fact, I'll have you come down and see me regularly when the school year starts. She said she did, and of course, her first visit.

Jeff Howard: 24:51

I said I've got a puzzle for us to work on here. And so we, over the course of probably about a month and a half, would work on that puzzle and the painting is such, if you look closely at it, van Gogh used these very short jabby strokes gray, blue, gray, light, blue, dark and so the puzzle's really difficult to put together. And so we're working on it one day and she's just going oh, this is frustrating, I can't get these pieces right, and all that. And I said, darn you Van Gogh. And she came back and said, yeah, screw you Van Gogh. And she said, in fact, fact, she started saying I was like no, stop, stop there. But she literally said that to me and um, uh, and that was so interesting. My experience heard that that is an integral part of the book um, of that, that. And um, uh, she's since graduated. Uh, lovely woman, and uh, does well and it's, it's a beautiful thing. But that phrase screw you Van Gogh comes up more than once in the story.

Alisha Coakley: 26:00

So I love that. Yeah, that is so neat.

Jeff Howard: 26:03

Yeah.

Alisha Coakley: 26:04

So when did you, uh, when did you publish your book?

Jeff Howard: 26:13

How long has it been since it's been out? Well, I've completed it and they call them indie novels. They're independently published it actually more than two years ago, but if you know anything about the independent publishing it's it can be a nightmare. You can have the greatest book in the world, but to get it out there without the aid of a publisher is Amazon, is the black hole for hundreds of thousands of novels. It is really hard, and so I've worked with some different groups and we kind of got some traction there. So it was actually reintroduced this past fall with a little bit of a tweaked cover and working with some different printers and things like that. So probably more accurately, the big rollout was this past fall.

Alisha Coakley: 27:02

Okay, awesome. And you said you've had what 70 students that have read and discussed it. Is that what you had said earlier?

Jeff Howard: 27:09

That I have personally read at least parts of the book with Now, and of course, my argument was and I was an English teacher and I know that when it's part of standards in every school district in the United States they have English standards that they have to do, and one of them is reading and understanding text, and so kids read books and the best way is when they do it in groups. They'll read out loud to each other or read quietly or something like that, and the teacher picks the books and there's at the same time, so books are a big deal with kids. They read these books together. At the same time, there is a lot of pressure put on schools now to have mental health support, in fact to be assertive in reaching out, and so in my mind I'm going like, ah, this book and I've got, of course, a copy here this book would be incredible for that. It not only is it a great story, it's a way for schools to help their kids, and so I got permission to use it in what we call a credit recovery class.

Jeff Howard: 28:26

This was an interesting group of students and over my years they I became my favorite set of students. They had failed junior English and they were seniors, ready to graduate. So they had to make up that credit and most of them had failed it during the lockdown, during the pandemic, so in 1920 or 21. And so I said, okay, and there's only eight kids. I said, all right, you're going to come with me on every Thursday after school for two months. You're going to regain your credit. And so I said, and you're going to read this book with me. And they're like I don't know. Well, these kids had failed an English class. They were reluctant readers. One boy he had the most severe case of ADHD that I had worked with. He was taking maximum medication, but I loved him, he was such a fun kid. So they all come in. Now these are 18-year-old kids, ready to go to college or into the workforce the next year. And so we pull out the book and they of course go whoa, what's this name? It's something else you know. And my hopes were really substantiated.

Jeff Howard: 29:40

These kids got into this book within days. They were anxious to read it. They would come in and grab the books and sit down and let's go, mr Howard, let's go, mr Howard. And at first I first. I go like, okay, I'm going to read out loud um, but I want you all to read out loud. Eventually, no, we will not do that. And again, these are kids that fail the english class, but within a few weeks they were all reading out loud and they couldn't wait to get into the book.

Jeff Howard: 30:08

And this was a very representative group. I had the Native Americans, I had African-American students, I had kids that came from the rural side of town, I had kids come from affluent parents that were business owners, and it was really a great experience with them and they all I would ask them, and they all got that message like what to do if you ever were tempted with self-harm, or how you should deal with it if you do have bipolar feelings, anxiety. Anyway, it was a great experience and so they were my favorite ones. But I read it, at least partly, with many other students that I would meet with during the week.

Alisha Coakley: 30:56

So yeah, wow, that's really neat. Huh. So how is this? I mean, obviously it's not like a gospel-centered book, but it has your beliefs you were able to incorporate. You know some truths and stuff like that in there about afterlife and things like that. So, spiritually speaking, how do you feel like this book is helping kids? You know, on a spiritual level?

Jeff Howard: 31:27

Maybe I'll kind of work up a little bit. The book does deal with loving your fellow man a lot. A big part of the book is these two girls come together and they're very different in how one reaches out to her the other one and takes her in. So there's that aspect. There is a mother and a daughter, a single parent, household mother. They have a fight. Then there's reconciliation. You know, forgiveness is a huge part of the story, part what I call faith promoting. Again is at the end of the story, when the school counselor meets with this one of the main characters and they talk about death.

Jeff Howard: 32:16

Now, when I was a counselor, you are in a public education, you are not to. That's not the place to push any religion at all. But I had no problem asking students if they had faith-based feelings at all, particularly when somebody died or they had a tough time. And I would often ask students, I said do you have faith? Do you believe in higher power, which most did.

Jeff Howard: 32:45

Now I talked to them about having faith. You know, to I said, because when someone close to you dies, whether that's a parent or a cousin or a fellow student, I said that's all you got to go on. It's a faith that you will see them again. You know that this isn't the end and the the book. It's pretty strong in the end about that, where this girl is. She's just debilitated by her grief and she, the counselor. Again I use what I learned the counselor answers do you believe in an afterlife? Do you believe that she's not really gone? And they have that conversation Right. So I was like, yeah, it's a sweet little part of the story so were you guys able to like talk about that openly.

Alisha Coakley: 33:36

When you read this book with your kids, were you able to kind of like go a little more into depth on that? That I guess section, or is it? I mean, obviously it's school, so you have to play a line.

Jeff Howard: 33:50

Right, there's a line you gotta play there very much so and that's that line of you. Keep it very generic. You know, do you have a faith? You call them the faith-based community. You know, uh, uh, do you have a faith? You have a belief in an afterlife and in a god, and um, uh, I, I can't say that. We got into that a lot, particularly with the daytime group, because we had only a short period of time and we were reading the book. That's only at the very end. But with this group of seniors we did, and it was pretty much the same conversation.

Jeff Howard: 34:29

Interestingly, most kids do have an innate faith and a belief in God, whether they go to church or not. Most kids would tell me that they don't go to church a lot, but they've always believed in God and they believe that this is not the end. Again, that's that very important part. I think we've all had that experience of people who don't have a faith in an afterlife and that death is something that's horrible to them because it really is the end and it's only that. And you know people can come up and say, oh, I'm so sorry someone died, you know they're in a better place or their pain is over, and those are very shallow comments. That's all we have, that we all say that. But when you can say like, okay, do you believe that you are going to see them again? And if you do, you're so fortunate to have that feeling that this isn't the end. So, yeah, I would have that conversation with students.

Alisha Coakley: 35:29

Have you thought at all about, like, reaching out out to the youth in your ward and seeing would they be interested in reading it, and seeing how the conversations would go from that perspective where you're taking it out of the school and you're like, okay, let's look at this spiritually, just the whole book spiritually. Have you thought about doing anything like that?

Jeff Howard: 35:50

Well, I, I have thought about that, but I have, I'm a little, very hesitant to do something like that, the, simply because I don't know how appropriate it would be to bring a book that you're quote, you know selling into the church. You know those, some of the kids in the in our ward and my own grandchildren have read it. In fact, many of them have read it more than once. Um, um. So I, I can't say that I've, uh, uh, haven't intentionally, uh, introduced the kids or anything like cause I'm a little bit afraid of being Mr Salesman, if you all know the truth at church, but a lot of some of the kids have, and it's always had the desired outlook. And that brings up a point too.

Jeff Howard: 36:45

We as members of our church, we like to think that sometimes we think that we've got the market cornered on faith and spirituality and youth, in which we don't, though our youth as a whole tend to have more faith and more belief and things like that. That doesn't stop LDS families from having troubles or LDS kids from having anxiety and depression, and sadly, in our own state here we've had one, if not more, suicides. So members of the church are not exempt from these things at all and so, but they do have that advantage and we maybe talked about this a little bit earlier but a belief in our personal value, being children, daughters and sons of God, that we have divine capability. Again, that doesn't stop kids from having tough times, so really tough times in the church.

Alisha Coakley: 37:52

How do you think we juggle that? I mean, I know um Scott's daughter, clarissa has she's.

Alisha Coakley: 37:59

she shared how she had suicidal thoughts when she was a teenager and Scott had no idea, and Deb you know like, like nobody in their family knew about it because she wasn't sharing and myself and in our family we have a child who really recently made an attempt and it's really hard to as a parent, it's really hard to know what to do and what to look out for and I can't. I mean, like I said Scott, they had no idea. In our situation it was a little different, like we. We had an idea.

Alisha Coakley: 38:37

I even went through and took like the suicide prevention courses and stuff like that a few years ago, and so I learned about how to talk and how to do this and it still didn't. It didn't stop the attempt from happening. And so I guess, from your perspective, like how do we, especially as members of the church, how do we look out for that? How do we have these conversations? How do we help to protect those who are struggling, especially our teenagers? It seems to be a really, really high rate with teens, like you said, how do we have those conversations? And I think a lot of people, I think sometimes are afraid that if they bring it up that it's putting the idea in their head.

Alisha Coakley: 39:31

right, yes, but what do we?

Jeff Howard: 39:33

do? Where do we go from there? Um, first of all, uh, that's some reservations I've had about the book, sometimes like, do I create the ideation, as I thought about suicide? Awareness in any form does not plant the seed in the young person's mind. They've had that seed already there. This doesn't.

Jeff Howard: 40:01

Reading this book or going to hear a suicide survivor speak does not make a student or a young person say, well, I'm going to do that. They've got that feeling well before that. Okay, that's one thing that parents need to know and that is and in fact, that feeling of protecting kids from it is one of the problems Not saying, oh, we need to talk, let's go secretly somewhere. But needs to be a outward, very conversation with it. The kid doesn't think that, that they don't think like, well, this is different. They need to know that this is something that it's out there. We need to talk about this. And the more conversation the better, and because that's if anything they're going to. In other words, if a parent come up to their son or daughter and said, have you been feeling like you want to hurt yourself, they'll say no. They usually say no right away, you know, and maybe eventually they'll tell you but one. I call them one, and dones One. And dones are not good. I mean, you need, you got to do more. It needs to be a sustained effort, whether it's reading this book or having conversations with your kids, and you need to make them feel like it isn't out of the ordinary to come to them and say, mom or dad, man, I'm having a really bad day. They need to know that they can do that, and if you keep it a secret or push down, that's the worst thing you can do. You want that common, that frequent conversation is what you want, because it's not those conversations never, ever, ever drive a student towards suicide. Now, granted, a young person feeling, uh, like they're a burden is one of the biggest reasons students do die or kids do die from suicide. But that constant, that appropriate, frequent, sustained conversation is critical. The kids need to feel that they can come and talk. They talk about it being the stigma, and there is a stigma, but the more you talk about it, the more open you are about it, the less stigma there is, and so that's critical to have that, and so that's critical to have that. Fortunately, the vast vast majority of those kids who have rough times grow up and move on and become happy people. Most do.

Jeff Howard: 42:36

Now I think, if everybody was honest with themselves as adults, that did I ever think about committing suicide? No, but did I think about suicide? Of course I did, you know. Everybody thinks about that, you know. But again, that getting out, and that's again. And I don't mean to turn back to salesmen, but this book, if I was a parent and had a child that I thought was fragile and they liked to read I'm the author but I would still say that'd be the first thing I would do. I would read this book with my child Because, again, it's not a one and done, it's a sustained conversation over many days. And these students, these young people, they don't often want to come out and say like man, I've been having dangerous feelings, but I'll talk about Cassidy Towers in the book, who had feelings. So it's like a vicarious experience too. Anyway, there's a lot of good reasons too. This is a good stimulus for frequent and sustained conversations, which I think is the greatest thing you can do today.

Alisha Coakley: 43:34

It almost takes the spotlight off them, but still allows them to express their feelings or their thoughts or their questions or whatever.

Jeff Howard: 43:41

Exactly, it gives a. It gives a vehicle for questions and conversation.

Scott Brandley: 43:46

Yeah, Well, and I think story is a great way to do that, because then it's something that they can relate to, but it also grabs their attention, right, right.

Alisha Coakley: 43:57

Yeah, well, and that's I mean, if you think about it, one of the things that Scott and I talked about when we were first putting this podcast together was just the way that Christ used stories. I mean, if you look at the scriptures, like Christ told stories all the time to help get teachings across to people so that we could understand them in a way that made sense, right. And so I think you know, in situations where whether it's like a podcast like this, where we're just sharing stories so that people can know one that they're not alone, and then they can have some type of direction on where to go and how to address things that they're dealing with, I, you know the same holds for you. I love that. You actually, you're kind of like stories within stories, right, like you used actual real stories, real experiences, to create a fictional story, right, but it has all of these things that are real, things that students can relate to, obviously, things that they can discuss.

Alisha Coakley: 45:01

I think, even as a parent, we get scared sometimes. We're like, oh, I don't know. I don't know if we want to do, we really want to have those conversations Because if we just focus on all of the good stuff, right, we just focus on all of the good stuff, right?

Scott Brandley: 45:14

And if we?

Alisha Coakley: 45:15

don't think about any of the hard stuff. Instead, we just keep focusing on the positive all the time. Sometimes we think that that's the best route to go. But even Christ would share things that were hard right. He would share circumstances that were difficult, and he wasn't always telling us just to just to always think positively.

Scott Brandley: 45:41

Right.

Alisha Coakley: 45:42

Like we need to be grateful. You know, I'm wondering do you feel like? Do you feel like gratitude plays a part? I mean, I've heard before that it does, but but just from your experience and stuff, do you feel like the kids who show more gratitude and who express more gratitude have like a less?

Jeff Howard: 46:06

I don't know less of a tendency to yeah.

Alisha Coakley: 46:09

Yeah.

Jeff Howard: 46:12

By the way, you said that very, very well what you were just saying there. That was great, and a child, teenager, adult who can show gratitude is in a good place place. It shows that they have their thinking out of themselves, which is the first step. You don't want to be in yourself. That's when trouble happens, and so I think gratitude which has been really linked with good mental health or improved mental health I think that it's actually a sign of a healthy mind is being able to get out of yourself and be grateful.

Jeff Howard: 47:00

I forget her name and I probably shouldn't do this unless I can think of it, but she came and spoke and she has this, what you call it gratitude jar, where every day she would say something and she's got a website and she speaks and things, things. But part of her program was she had a was that extreme depression as a parent, children, and she shows a picture of her self with her kids christmas morning one year. It's got the tree and everything and she looks like I'm sorry but she looked terrible just run down, and she puts that picture up there intentionally. She said that was me only two years ago and she said and since I've been doing the gratitude thing. Here I am today, and so it was shocking to see the difference that she attributed to gratitude, and I think the key is that gratitude gets you out of yourself. As you know, it's commonly taught in the church, and that is like if you want to feel better, do something for somebody else. In other words, it's that getting out of yourself and not allowing the self-pity or the doom and gloom to overwhelm you. Now, those things I need to be honest here. I'm always a believer in being honest, and that is probably.

Jeff Howard: 48:23

The grateful isn't going to cure you. It's going to help you through times, though, because once a person has depression, they will have depression at some degree, probably their entire life. What they learn is things along the way to take the edge off it, to cope with it, to find happiness, to find joy, but sadly, in most cases, it's always lurking there, and that's one thing that people need to know, too that every one of us have depression. And that's one thing that people need to know, too, that every one of us have depression. Some of us have it at a degree that it actually impairs our lives, but there isn't anybody out there who can't see that they don't have tough days, just that some have them really, really tough. So there are those that cope with depression, and medication helps, therapy helps, but it's like a three-legged stool that's the analogy that a lot of people use, the old three-legged milking stool where it sits up. But then self-coping skills, developing skills those three things are what help people deal with depression. But boy, it's a terrible tough thing when you think about those high-profile people who have died from suicide.

Jeff Howard: 49:53

And people tell their stories and they almost always in some fashion talk about how that depression is a monster that's bigger than anybody can imagine unless you're there at the moment. And that's why a lot of kids will say that death, no matter what it is, is better than what I'm feeling right now. No matter what it is is better than what I'm feeling right now. And professionals say, like what happens with kids or adults or anybody. They have those feelings many times, but they don't act on it. And then finally, at some point, they do. What was it at that one point where they lost the battle? When they've actually won the battle half a dozen times over the years, or a dozen times and it's something that this book can help They'll say I remember that story and how the story enforced that.

Jeff Howard: 50:50

No, I wish that. Life is a beautiful thing, and that's another thing about the gospel that life is a gift. Life is what we chose. We believe in our premortal existence. We wanted it badly. If you want to go even deeper, the third who didn't desire bodies badly, yeah, and we have that. And to give it up, uh, is a tragic thing. That's what? Again, if anyone gets into that quite a bit, how that's, uh, yeah, this life's a beautiful thing.

Scott Brandley: 51:25

So anyway, yeah I think, if you know, I think if you can get this book out to teenagers especially I mean, you're impressionable when you're young and and I still remember the books I read in high school and junior high, and so I think that could be really helpful. So, if you look five years into the future, what does success look like as far as getting this book out there? Like what do you hope to happen?

Jeff Howard: 51:55

Interesting question because you have a book here. I don't mean to sound gratuitous, but my goal would be to just get this book out into as many hands as I could. I'd give it away if that's what it takes. That's more important to me to get it out. So I've tried really hard to see.

Jeff Howard: 52:21

There's a movement called social emotional learning, sel, in our schools in the country. It stands for social emotional learning, and actually every high school in the United States public high school is actually required to have a mental health program. Pardon me, if you're going to get federal dollars, which they all do you're going to have a program, but there's no program police that will come and check on you. So if you go to an administrator and say what's your comprehensive school mental health program, they'll go like, well, we have assembly once a year, we have our school counselors Okay, and that's not enough. We need to do more.

Jeff Howard: 53:08

And so my proposal is that this book be actually read in English classes, because most kids won't pick it up and read it, even if they're semi-avid readers. They just you know. But if you say, guess what, we're going to have to read this if you want to grade, and that's the reality of it that I do. I do believe this book could do great things and that would be great, but I'm finding out that it's very, very, very difficult to uh get get to the right ears when it comes to about getting books in, uh, curriculums and stuff like that. I actually have a curriculum, a three-week curriculum, that goes with the book that I've. I've written that. I haven't been able to. I'm still trying to figure out a way to try and get it out there, so I think that would just take a lot of time.

Alisha Coakley: 54:00

So you know, I I don't know if this helps at all or if this is something you know that you would even want to do but my, my initial thought is, before you can get it to the kids, you got to get it to the teachers.

Alisha Coakley: 54:14

So if you could get it in the hands of the teachers first, who get to pick that curriculum and get to take part in it, it might be a really cool thing for you to even do like a Zoom book club with teachers where they can purchase the book, maybe even purchase it at a discounted price or something like that, like giving them an incentive to where they can get the book, they can read it, you guys can discuss it together and then you can show them the three-week curriculum, have them experience it themselves.

Alisha Coakley: 54:43

That could be something that could definitely get it out there. And then, of course, teachers talk right, like when they have something that they feel works, that definitely expands, because I do think that this is something that needs to be talked about, and I know, like I said just from from my perspective as a parent um yeah, having gone, having gone through that fear of pulling up and and seeing police and a firefighter and an ambulance and stuff like that at my house and not knowing what I would be doing later that week.

Alisha Coakley: 55:30

Very, very scary. To get these kids to understand that they are loved and that they are needed and that there is so much to this life that they still need to experience you know, good and bad, but ultimately that they can't experience it if they're not here, you know, and they can't help others if they're not here.

Alisha Coakley: 55:52

And so I think what you've done is a really, really beautiful thing, and I would not be worried at all about coming across being very businessy, because your heart was in the right place when you created this book and I think it's still in the right place now and wanting to get it out there and sometimes that takes financial obligations right, Like it would be wonderful if we were all established in Zion and we just did everything for free, for everyone, on the goodness of our hearts now.

Alisha Coakley: 56:19

But it's okay, I really think Heavenly Father has given us our gifts and our talents and he wants us to be able to use them for good and for building the kingdom. And what better way to build the kingdom than to help people to understand that this life is a gift from God and one that we should just hold onto with all of our might and and that we should really try to find that joy and that love and that peace. So we'll definitely share a link to your book, um in the description here.

Alisha Coakley: 56:46

So if anyone else wants to check it out for themselves, they're more than welcome to do that.

Jeff Howard: 56:51

Yes, yeah, this is how it starts.

Scott Brandley: 56:54

Jeff, you know you got to get out there and get the word out, so we're glad that we can be a little part of that anyway, oh, thank you, I appreciate that.

Alisha Coakley: 57:06

Yeah. So just before we go officially, can I ask, Jeff, do you have any last thoughts, any testimony, takeaways or messages that you'd really like to leave with our listeners?

Jeff Howard: 57:19

I do, and that is, we know, as members of the Church of Jesus Christ, that if Christ wanted us to do anything, it's to love our fellow man. We know that. Love God, love your fellow man. We know that. You know, love God, love your fellow man. And uh the uh if, if your wards are similar to ours right now, if you go in the primary, go in the young men, young priesthood. There's a number, there's always a number, of um, special needs kids in these classes now and uh, I, I really do know that um, um, these are.

Jeff Howard: 57:57

It sounds gratuitous, but these are very special people, very important to Heavenly Father and Christ he didn't have any qualms about talking to. I think they even referred to the lunatics. You know the people that were struggling and he loved them. The people that were struggling and he loved them. And I'll be honest with you, it can be very hard to love, like as a teacher. You know this kid drives me crazy in class. You know I went through that all the time.

Jeff Howard: 58:30

But how important that is to love them and when we do, I think that we do earn a special place in God's heart when we serve these people that are struggling emotionally and because if they could just, especially in moments of difficult moments, if they could just grasp that one thought and say like I'm here for a purpose and that I am a son or a daughter of God and that I'm worth something and, better yet, they can maybe reach out and help others. You know that compounding thing, and Christ said don't hide your land under a bushel, but open it up. You know, and there's nobody that can do more than someone that says I've been there before and I want to help you. It can be a great thing. Anyway, I feel very passionate about the night of what the Lord does too.

Alisha Coakley: 59:25

I love that.

Scott Brandley: 59:27

Awesome. Well, we really appreciate you coming on and sharing your experiences and your book and hopefully we can get that message out there. You know any of you who are watching you know, if you know somebody that's struggling with suicidal thoughts or depression, let's get this book in their hands or in their parents hands, like let's share this message. I mean this sure this is serious like your book could save somebody's life, and that's a big deal.

Jeff Howard: 1:00:00

I I believe that yeah, yes and no. I uh, I'm appreciative you giving me a platform for a moment here yeah it's been great. So yeah, yeah, yes, well it's a great story, yeah it really is and, if you don't mind, you know the. The book now is available through bookstores. People can go to any bookstore and say you have this book. Nope, Can you get it for me? Of course, it's on Amazon too.

Alisha Coakley: 1:00:26

Very cool.

Jeff Howard: 1:00:27

Awesome.

Alisha Coakley: 1:00:28

Awesome. Well, we really appreciate you coming on today and and not only just sharing your story, but being willing to sit down and to write a story that can be shared.

Alisha Coakley: 1:00:41

You know it it is a lot of work writing a book and it is even more work, getting a book out there and getting it published once it is written and it is not for the faint of heart, for sure, not for the faint of heart, for sure and so just your tenacity and getting that story out there and doing something for these kids, I can already see how it can be such a huge blessing and I really hope that moving forward you'll be able to touch a lot more people.

Alisha Coakley: 1:01:11

So thank you for that. We really appreciate that. And to all of our listeners, guys, we are so grateful that you guys are tuning in for another story, um, and another episode of Latter-day Lights. We really, really enjoy hearing from you. Um, we would love for you to comment on this episode. Let us know what your favorite part is. Or, you know, just tell us like, hey, I ordered the book. Or or if maybe you would like to gift a book to someone, um, let us know, that would be. That would be a really cool thing too. Maybe you know someone's like hey, jeff, let me know who needs a book and I'll, I'll purchase one for them, or whatever it is that would be, really, really neat.

Alisha Coakley: 1:01:48

So we would love for you guys to do that. Hit that button, that little share button, do your five second missionary work and, um, and let's, let's get Jeff's story out there and his book out there too.

Scott Brandley: 1:01:59

Yeah, for sure. And if you have a story like Jeff or you know, you know someone that has a story, go to latterdaylightscom and let's get you on the show. Let's share that, let's share the stories, let's share more light out there and, and you know, make this world a little bit better together. Absolutely.

Alisha Coakley: 1:02:21

All right, guys? Well, that's all we have for you today. Thank you again, Jeff, for coming on here.

Jeff Howard: 1:02:25

Thank you very much. Appreciate it All right, god bless.

Alisha Coakley: 1:02:28

Thank you. We'll talk to everyone next week. See you, Bye guys week see ya. Bye guys.