E27. Working in English as a podcaster in human rights - with Amélie Tagu

Working as a podcaster in human rights, living in Brussels, learning English abroad…

Just some of the topics I discussed with this week’s guest, the wonderful Amélie Tagu, a Communications Officer based in Brussels, Belgium.

Amélie is originally from Rennes, in France. Like most French children, she learnt English at school. But she really discovered the language by traveling, during a linguistic immersion in New Jersey, and more recently through a voluntary service in Czech Republic. 

She has lived in Brussels for four years and works for the NGO Euromed Rights, defending human rights in North Africa and the Middle East. There, she uses English to produce a podcast series featuring human rights activists, who speak about their fights and achievements in their countries.

Interviewing Amélie was such a great pleasure and I really think you will enjoy our conversation together.

You can listen to Euromed Right's podcast at the following link

https://open.spotify.com/show/7xz1gy3G71ut3rN22X4Ome

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This podcast is completely free.  Show your appreciation for this podcast and buy me a cup of tea here

For more info on the English Changemaker Club see my website here

Transcript

0:04

Welcome to the English for change podcast, a place for you. If you are an ambitious English learner and you confident voice in English, so you can make positive change for yourself and the world. My name is Ruth wile and I am an English language teacher. Join me here each week. As we explore ways you can improve your English and your. And use your voice in English to speak about important global issues. Hello, everyone. Welcome to this week's podcast episode. I am delighted this week to be joined by a guest. Emily taboo. From France. And she has a very interesting profile and was a really great. A conversation. Hearing about her career has she's learned English in different countries, actually, not always English speaking countries. She actually practiced her English a lot in the Czech Republic. But her job, she is based currently in Belgium, where she works for a human rights organization and NGO where, which defends human rights in north Africa and the middle east. We connected online. Actually, we also had our conversation online, even though we're not very far away because we're both based in Belgium. But she is based in the capital of Belgium in Brussels. And I heard about her podcast that they release with the NGO and she had on that was coming out. To celebrate pride month and that was interviewing. LGBT activists in Turkey. So I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. Lots of great tips as well for learning English and also hearing about her story and background. And so let's get into the episode. Enjoy.

Ruth: 1:51

So hello, Emily. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for coming on. Hey, thank you for having me. Yeah, it's really great to have you on the podcast and to talk all about your experience learning English and what you do as well, professionally at the moment. Could you perhaps introduce yourself to the listeners? Sure. So my name is Emily. I am French. I come from Ren, but I live in BRS for four years. And before that I was one year in Czech Republic where I could learn few check, but very basic. Yeah, and I, I studied journalism, radio journalism. And then I went to Brus to study European politics and here I am. And I worked for an NGO, which is called Euro rights in audio visual communication. Excellent. Yeah. Great. Thank you for introducing yourself. And it sounds like you have a lot of great experience and you've really traveled as well. You said that you lived in the Czech Republic and maybe you didn't learn so much check, but was the language you used English? Yes, exactly. English was my saver. yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, I can elaborate a bit more if you are interested. Mm-hmm yeah, go ahead. Yeah. So it's a program that was called European voluntary service EVs, but now it's called European solidarity corrupt, I think. And you can go from your 18 years old to U 30. In a country and have an experience, which goes from two weeks, till 12 months. And I did 12 months INO in the Moravian region of Republic. Ah, and yeah, that was amazing. It's a bit like a gap here. You get to meet. I met we were 14, 14 volunteers. That's come coming from Ukraine. And the S like Eastern Europe and health was from like me, Western Europe. And it was very interesting. The mission itself was in a leisure time center and I I was with a multimedia workshop, like with teenagers making movies and everything. So that was nice. And yes, English was needed. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Because check people don't speak very well English, even less French, but mm-hmm, For Western Europeans, it's super complicated to learn SL language like check. So like English was like deeply did it helped to be more confident and to speak like daily English. Yeah. And were you teaching the teenagers English or did they have a good level of English? That's complicated. No, I wasn't teaching English. I tried at some point I took over some English teacher left and I took over, but come on, I, I have a French accent and so it was a bit like complicated for me as a French to teach English. I did not have the good pronunciation for some world and everything. So I didn't feel very credible but yeah, I tried, no, my, my mission was more in helping them doing movies and short movies. The biggest, like the. Boys who were 15, 17 years old, spoke a good English. So we had a communication. And then for those kids, like 10, that was more like a body language. and my my two or three words, stuff like that. And there are two or three English world. So we had some connection, but it was more like a, from far away. And yeah, to go back. I mean, it, it is great that you were able to go and live in another country where you didn't speak the language, but you had that language in common often with the people English. How did you start learning English? And did you enjoy it from the beginning? I studied at school, I think like every French person when I was, I'd say eight, like but it was like a topic like math or geography, or like it was included in the program. So I didn't enjoy it, like especially. Especially more than another topic. In France, we are more, more into written language than spoken. So that made it a bit boring sometimes. We had like lines of sentence to complete with a good grammar. And I mean, you don't really practice. But yeah, what helped me was in 10 years ago, actually I went for linguistic travel to the. For one month. Okay. Yeah. With my best friend, we were one month in New Jersey and that's where I really enjoyed and learned English cause like I was, I was 17 and I had yeah, I was in, in America and no one speaks French. So this is where we, we really, our level went really high higher And were you in a school there, in, in the us when you were there? Or what were you doing for that month? No, it was in a family and with a, a group of French people. So we had a half time visits with a group between French and half all the other time with the family. So this, yeah, this helped for English and also watching movies. Like I want to just say like watching series and movies, like when I grew up series became most, mostly popular than before. And so it helps also. Yeah. Great. Yeah, because there are many well, I, I teach a lot of people from France and other European countries and they go through the same process as you, they, they learn it in school. And yeah, some of them do exchanges as well. Like you, would you say that living abroad in an English speaking country really helped you, do you think that's something that was necessary for you to advance? Yes, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm, it's very different because if you speak with, in English with foreigners, I noticed the level of English goes down because we all adapt to each other language. Like if I speak English to my friends who is from Russia and and there is a Ukrainian in the room and another French, we speak like basic English, you know, like we adapt. And if you are with native, of course, it's more challenging and you have to be more careful. Things they say, cause they have the accent and everything. So yes, I think it's necessary. And yeah, you touched on that a bit, but what would've been the, the greatest challenges for you when you were well in the us, or just speaking English in general? What? Or even now maybe you still face some, some challenges or even mental, mental things about speaking or communicating in English. Yeah. It's to understand it's the most challenging mm-hmm if, like, for instance, you don't have so much accent, but some Irish people have a very strong accent. So this is very complicated. And yeah, so this to understand and to have also the vocal bureau. I can give you an example. When I was studying European politics, it was all in English, almost all in English like 80% in English. And this master degree was a hardcore cause you. It was European law European politics, all in English, teach by a non-native English speaker So that made it super complicated first to understand the topic that was completely new for me, like economics or law and everything. And then to understand the words and to understand the person who is speaking. So that's. And how did you, I mean, you, you succeeded, you did your, was it a master's you did in, in Belgium? Was it in Belgium? Yes. Yes. Ah, yes. Okay. And so they have programs that are in totally in English. Yeah. This one? Yes. Yeah, we supported each other. That's good. Why did you decide to do that? Why did you decide to do a master's completely in English? I, I didn't decide to do it in English. okay. yeah, it was in English, but no, I decided to study European the, the European union, because I was mm-hmm I did Amus and then I did this. EVs yeah, European voluntary service in, in Czech Republic. So I was interested in the function, the functioning of the European union, like how it works and yeah. Who decides what? So I chose this master degrees and in BR. It was this place. Yeah. But then it was all in English. The, the fact it was well, it, it was by chance or it, maybe it was a good, a good challenge for you. I'm sure it helped to advance your English even further. Yes. It was a challenge for sure. Yeah. And if there are people listening who, you know, I, I, to be honest, I relate to this as well, because I think I never dared to do a course in French and I have this, you know, limitation. Oh, I'm not good enough. I'm too shy. I can't speak French. Or I won't understand all of these things. It's really bad because it kind of stops you from doing things and I, it stop. It has stopped me in the past as well. Do you have any advice for me or for other listeners? Yeah, I understand it's complicated because also French is not so easy to learn as English, but to go in a place where you do not have. that's my advice like if you go in a country where no one speaks English like for instance, in France, people do not really speak a good English. So if you decide, if you go there and you live there and or you make friends who don't speak English and you are forced to speak French and for studies, yeah. You just yeah. Try. I don't know your level of French, so so it's complicated. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and a, B2, intermediate, upper intermediate. Okay. And I so I live in, in Belgium as well as the listeners would know, but I, yeah, I don't. So you're in Brussels. Yeah. I'm. 30 minutes away in in a small town in the, in the wallow need park, French speaking park. But I found that being, cuz I lived in France before I lived in Paris, also Bordeaux and I will be moving back to France yeah, I haven't actually, I think maybe I said it on the podcast before, but I, I'm not sure on my social media, but that's another well, it's a great challenge to go and live abroad and to go to another country. But I have found being in Belgium. People are much more friendly and open and patient with you know, if I don't pronounce something completely in the correct way when I was in Paris, people would just, and maybe that's Paris as well. The, the capital city, they just, if I, oh, I don't know that word because you said it not exactly the correct way, or so I found that, and then, you know, I. I do stop then because I lost confidence, but I think being in Belgium, I really regained that confidence. And yeah, they are really good tips and advice for others. So what I'm hearing is go somewhere where you're kind of forced into it, that you don't really have a. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So then you really have to just face the challenge and just do it yeah. Yes. And I think it was Paris for your experience. yeah. Yeah. If you go to other cities, maybe you have a different I hope you have a different appreciation yeah, I think I know. I really, I really love France. It is an amazing country and But I do think people, people want to speak because I'm an English teacher as well. People are like wanting to speak English to me. and it can be a bit of a disadvantage being a native English speaker in that way. But again, these are just maybe excuses and I'm really impressed by how you are kind of mentality mindset of just going, doing these, these opportunities, going to the Czech Republic and then doing your master's in English. Yeah, actually just quickly there are lots of check who do not speak English, so I feel you, like, I had to speak, check, speak, check like mm-hmm in brackets. And I felt lonely sometimes and people look at you, like you're an alien, like what so it's, it's, it's tough. It's tough. But for instance, there, I didn't have choice if I need to ask my way. And people do not speak English, which is very usual. If they are a bit older, like older than 40 or stuff like this, then you have to make it happen yeah. That's very interesting. And it sounds like you're kind of. Passion or the things that you have studied are journalism and also the European studies, European politics or law, or I'm not sure which one. Well, actually in, in the organization you're working in would be more policy politics. Yeah. Could you tell me about, well, the question, like what parts of your life do you use English now? How do you use English in your personal professional? I use English on a daily basis at work. We are mostly with between colleagues. Mostly people understand French, but not everyone. So we speak both French English. Okay. And so, yeah, and I still have friends from my EVs. So also chat with them in English and stuff at work it's English. And can you tell me more about your, your job and your organization that you work for? Sure. So I work for Europe rights at NGO that defends human rights in the Euro Mediterranean region. Meaning mare and middle east, middle east countries, such as mare is north Northern Africa. Oh yeah. North Africa as well. Yeah, north Africa, middle east first. Mm-hmm mm-hmm okay. Yeah. So there are different topics. There are like it's it's it is divided into programs women's rights migration in asylum economic and social rights, cultural rights stuff like this. Also countries specific countries like Turkey, Egypt, Algeria. And I work in communications. So I have to navigate between all programs with the com team and I'm in the audio visual part, kind of like I take care of the audio visual contents. So I also do podcast like you and videos, grace. And what are the, what are. Kind of videos and podcasts. What kind of topics have you been dealing with lately? I saw your most recent one, or I don't know if it's the most, the one from pride month. Yeah. The most recent you had. Yeah. Mm-hmm yes. Well, the fact is it's advocacy works, so it means like my colleagues mostly. Draft reports or go in meetings with academics, and this is not very attractive. And the general audience doesn't understand. The point, like what we are doing. So my work is to make human rights, like advocacy for human rights human. So to make it more understandable. And also I think attractive, if you can say, so I in the podcast, I interview activists from the region, the, the north Africa, middle east region who struggle or who are Active in I don't know how to say this word, but humiliate. It's for one, cause maybe fight against yeah. Who fights against yeah, one cause and then interviews them on this topic. So it makes it make something more concrete. And it's very interesting for the one you say it about prime months. For this one, actually that the first time I was there, I went to Istan. And I met yeah, yeah, that was usually it's on the phone. But for this time I was lucky. So I met some students who are L G B T IQ plus activists, and who faced their discrimination since since seven years, since GaN is took over power. So they, they explained their struggle, like how it evolved since 2015 and what can they do now for the pride? Because it was pride months. That's why we decided to do this topic. Mm-hmm and I can tease like we are preparing one about migration I have some colleagues who went to C in the north of France. They interviewed local associations who explain also like the struggle they have with the police with the regulations and discrimination. So it's very interesting. Yeah. I think kale has been in the news a lot, especially I, I would say in, in Europe anyway, I don't know for other countries, but And what I think, yeah. There are a mix of nationalities there generally. Well, generally the, the countries that you are dealing with actually in the me middle east more now the yeah. Yes, yes. Mm-hmm so yeah, they, they are free to speak. English, French, or Arabic has a. If it's Arabic I don't speak Arabic. So my colleague from con takeover but mostly it's in English, the podcast. Okay. Oh, okay. That's good to know. So I will definitely link it in the show notes for the, for the listeners, cuz there are definitely some who, well, I think a lot of my audience and my English change makers as well, I have a club where they're all. We have these shared values and want to make positive change in the world. So I think listening I think there's something very powerful of having that voice in English, you know it might not be their first language, but being able to communicate on such a, well, they have such a big platform with English it's that global language. So, yeah. That would be interesting to listen to about migration. I had a question and I'm just trying to think. I can't, I don't know if I. Remember, is there anything else you wanted to add about that, about your work and about the videos, the podcasts? No. I mean, like you said the aim of this is to, or this podcast is to deliver a positive message, not to say like or it's all going wrong, but to have some kind of hope, a message of hope and positive. So that's exactly what we try to. Brilliant. So I think we have shared common, common interests and values. That's that's great. Oh yeah. What I did want to mention, we got in contact over LinkedIn and I was sharing with you that, you know, I was an English teacher in Brussels before the pandemic, and it happened that I taught one of your I guess associate somebody that you were associated with a human rights defender from Egypt, and it was really eye opening for me and really just showed me how much how much power. It can have to, yeah. To be able to speak English, to be able to communicate your messages and ideas. He had some very important messages that, yeah, he spoke Arabic, but I suppose going to a European audience in, in Brussels, he was able to, to communicate more in English. So yeah, that was my connection with your med rights. And when I saw mm-hmm your connection. Yeah. I was interested to talk to you. So, yeah, it sounds like you're doing a lot of great work to highlight like these these issues in this region. And the people that listen then are you have members you have, cuz you're, you are making these. Big issues sometimes very complex legally and politically you're, you're simplifying the message and you're simplifying that in English, which is interesting, but the people who listen then are organizations or members or what, what kind of audience do you have? I know from the stats that there are health from mostly from the south countries, Southern countries and Denmark, because we are, we have an office in Denmark. Okay. But yes, we send it by email to our mail list, mailing list, which is composed of members, because your made rights is a, a network of NGOs. So it's it it'll, it relies on members and members. NGOs on the ground. I would say like NGOs based in the countries we work on. And usually we work with them for the podcast because we interview people from these NGOs if possible. Mm. So yeah, the audience is maybe some politicians because they are on the mailing list. EU. People who work for in the EU institutions and And with the social media, I hope to reach more general audience. Oh yeah. But I cannot really tell you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So it's, it's, it's a, it's a mix. So yeah, you do want to make sure that the message is well understood by everyone who listens and no matter maybe if English is their second or third language or they speak it at, you know, a lower level or that they can, is that, is that some kind of. Challenge, maybe it's something you kind of have trained as a journalist to be able to communicate in an easy, like a concise and clear way for everyone to understand a complex issue. Yeah. It's a challenge, especially for Euro mid rights, because it's as I say, it's not a communication friendly organization because it's it's advocacy. So drafting reports low about low and everything. So yeah Usually if, when my colleagues send a script for the podcast, it's like four page long and I reduce it from two page max it's an, an eternal struggle. if my colleagues, if my colleagues listen, they will understand like yes, I was trained for drafting effective, like straight to the point and the most important in full information first and then develop following a precise angle. Like a journalist article and my colleagues are more academics, so they like to spread all details going in all directions. So it's I like this part of my job, actually. Yeah. I like it to try to see one message and stick to it and not going around. And excellent. Yeah. It's definitely sounds like a challenge, but something that you enjoy doing, and that is usually in English, like how do you find it differs between English and French and how you communicate in a, in a clear. The way you structure things in French, it does, it is different, you know? Yeah. I didn't learn English journalistic practice. So I just adapt from French to English. Yeah. Mm-hmm I don't know if it's a way people do it in UK or America, but no, I just use what I learned and do it in English. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's good. It's sometimes when I see French texts and they have these really long sentence, Yeah. Or yeah, for this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. French is always longer. Yeah. But it's a language. So this kinda change. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. And English, I think. Yeah. What would you say about English in terms of how you communicate when you write? Yeah, it's shorter. It's mm-hmm, it's shorter. Mm-hmm, nothing special, but yeah, I, a lot of my students struggle with this, like would struggle with writing in a clear way, because they're used to using, especially European speakers, Spanish, Italian, French. So, so they're kind of used to that kind of more, more words, but not, and then English is like less saying the same thing, but with less words. So, yeah, that's an interesting differe. Yeah, so very interesting. And I think we've covered a lot here, but one question I'd like to ask you, would you consider yourself to be an English change maker from the definition that I've spoken about on my well, it's on my website. It's saying that an English change maker, someone who uses their, the resources are knowledge of English, their voice in English to make positive change in the world. Yes, if it's the definition for sure, because it's it's what I do in the podcast. Cause we have a voiceover and I record my voice. So I would say in the sense, yes. Yeah, yeah. Excellent. Well, it's very good. Very inspiring for, for my listeners and for my audience. Are there any other tips that you would give to English learners who would like to advance their English? Any other tips from all of what we've said or anything you'd like to add? No. No. No, I don't know, but I had something in mind. When you spoke about writing. I had my teacher, like at school, I learned the journalist school. One sentence is one word, one verb, and one, one sentence, one info. And it shouldn't be longer. It shouldn't be longer than 12 worlds or stuff like this. So it's like yeah, I'm used to write like it's better to have like lots of short sentences than one that make five lines and lost two. So yeah, I heard about this. When you spoke about the way people write English, like just stick to one sentence, one in food and dot and new sentence one. Oh yeah. When you said one, one verb as well, if possible, that that's actually a very good guide or good rule. And if you, and in our previous, so usually, so I do the podcast every two weeks now I used to do every week, but it's a lot of work, especially on your own, as you can imagine what podcast, but. Two or no, actually this episode will come out in August, but for you, we're, we're recording this in July, but the last guest I had on, she was from she's from Belgium. She's from she's teaches in LUN mm-hmm or. Louvin like the, the Dutch, the Dutch university she was saying exactly what you were saying about writing. She actually teaches academic writing. She gave a lot of really great tips and was saying that she would encourage her students to actually write maybe shorter sentences, even if it seems a bit too short, simple, then trying to make long sentences and then, you know, making mistakes or just getting the kind. Tone wrong, you know, mm-hmm so that is a very, that's a good, a good tip. Yeah. Well, it's been really nice to have you on, is there anything else you'd like to add before we finish? No, I mean, thank you for reaching out to me. It's always mm-hmm, nice to speak in exchange, so thank you. Yes. What was yes, absolutely. Yeah, me. Yeah. You're very welcome. And it was really nice to, to talk to you as well. Thanks for coming on and I will link if you can send me definitely the podcast of ed rights. I. Be great to, to link that and for the listeners to look it up as well and look up your organization maybe also in, in their own country, cuz you, you cover quite a few countries. Yeah. Yes. My pleasure. Is health English, half French. So we just send you the Spotify link and they can choose. Brilliant. Thank you very much, Emily. Thank you. Yeah, have a nice day.