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Ep. 84 - Navigating Divorce Finances: Expert Insights and Real-Life Stories with Jamie Lima

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Navigating Divorce Finances: Expert Insights and Real-Life Stories with Jamie Lima

Divorce is never easy, especially when it comes to managing finances. In this episode of the No BS Wealth Podcast, we're joined by divorce expert Jamie Lima, who shares his personal journey and professional insights into the financial intricacies of divorce. 🌟

🔹 Why Jamie Became a Divorce Financial Expert 🔹 Personal Stories: Lessons from Jamie’s Own Divorce 🔹 Key Financial Mistakes to Avoid During Divorce 🔹 Building a Support Team: Legal, Financial, and Emotional Guidance 🔹 Strategies for Effective Divorce Financial Planning

Jamie, a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst (CDFA), provides invaluable advice on how to navigate the financial challenges of divorce, from initial planning to final settlement. Whether you're considering divorce, currently going through it, or supporting a friend, this episode is packed with actionable tips and heartfelt stories that will guide you through the process.

Chapters: 0:00 Introduction 2:15 Jamie’s Journey to Becoming a Divorce Expert 6:30 Personal Divorce Experience and Financial Mistakes 11:45 The Importance of a Support Team in Divorce 16:20 Financial Planning Strategies for Divorce 22:00 Common Misconceptions About Financial Planning 28:45 The Role of Therapists and Divorce Coaches 34:10 Advice for Financial Advisors

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Disclaimer: The content of this video is for informational purposes only and does not constitute financial, legal, or tax advice. Please consult a qualified professional regarding your specific situation.

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DISCLOSURE: Awards and rankings by third parties are not indicative of future performance or client investment success. Past performance does not guarantee future results. All investment strategies carry profit/loss potential and cannot eliminate investment risks. Information discussed may not reflect current positions/recommendations. While believed accurate, Black Mammoth does not guarantee information accuracy. This broadcast is not a solicitation for securities transactions or personalized investment advice. Tax/estate planning information is general - consult professionals for specific situations. Full disclosures at www.blackmammoth.com.

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

Divorce.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

What a hot topic that's always in, in the news. I bet you have a lot of friends that have gotten divorced. I've had clients and friends and we really don't talk about the nitty gritty part, right? You get the nasty side, but from the financial perspective, the money movement perspective, We don't talk too much about, I know it's a very important piece. So today we've got Jamie Lima on who is our divorce expert, if you will. And we're going to chop it up with him of how he even got into being an expert in the divorce side of things, as well as some stories in what you can do or what you should do when going through the divorce planning side of things. So without further ado, welcome, sir. Thank you for having me. All right, so talk to us. First of all talk to us about getting your practice started. But why go the CDFA route? Why dive into the divorce situations?

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

If we go way back in the time machine when I was a young boy I was seven or eight years old. My parents went through a divorce. And early on, I recognized that divorce can be financially draining and challenging for everybody involved, even as a young kid, I recognize that wow, my parents have it rough, right? They, my dad worked multiple jobs. My mother worked multiple jobs just to keep a roof over our heads. And. Yeah, they might have been a little bit doomed at the start because they started off, they were young, when they were 20 and 22 years old when they got married and decided to have me, but that I took that experience and that's really what propelled me into the world of finance to begin with, frankly, I remember just how stressful things were and how challenging things were for them. And I, I felt early on that I wanted to ensure that my own kids never had to have that same experience, in their lives. And I think that's effectively what propelled me into the world of finance and learning more about investing and savings and those different types of strategies, which brought me to, working for some big name companies. If I said their names, you would definitely recognize them. I've been doing this almost 20 years now and a few years back. I went through my own challenging divorce, but in 2017, I decided I wanted a divorce and said the dreaded D word and dropped that bomb. And even as a financial planner at that point for probably 13 years or so, 13 or 14 years, Even I made some mistakes as I went through that process, just trying to get the, just trying to get it over with because it was getting very expensive and it was starting to drag on a little bit and instead of, pausing and making, some decisions that I would help my clients make today, I made a couple of mistakes along the way. But that's really what thrust me into the world of divorce. So I had the traditional financial planning background. I'm a certified financial planner, just like yourself. And I decided that I wanted to get my certified divorce financial analyst CDFA designation around that time. And I finished that and then I've since launched my own registered investment advisory firm where we do traditional financial planning. And we also now have a company called Allegiant Divorce Solutions where we do divorce planning, but really it stemmed from, my experiences watching my parents go through that exercise growing up and also going through my own, very challenging divorce myself just a few years back.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

And I appreciate you sharing that because the first question we ask in our planning my firm Black Mammoth. Is always about their first money memory or some type of money trauma. And it always comes back to childhood, right? Something happens good or bad that locks us into to what we feel about money. And that's what we really try to accomplish. And that's what No BS Wealth podcast is about, right? We're bringing no bullshit to you from all different walks of life and letting people know they're not alone, right? We. This is one thing in money that I don't like a lot in our industry is we always care about returns and we always try to keep up with the Joneses. When realistically building your wealth sucks. It's not an easy journey. It is a grind and people need to recognize that there is more than just you. Everyone has a story, but a lot of them are very similar and you're not alone in that. So definitely appreciate that. When you are working with clients in the divorce side, there's a few emotions running around. Good or bad or indifferent there. Talk us through what that process looks like, because there's a lot of folks out there that don't know what the financial piece or what that side of divorce is like. Talk us through how that process works.

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

You're absolutely right. There are definitely some emotions involved. That's the crux of it. And we do have, I feel like a lot of times we're a therapist more than financial planners in that realm. But the process is very similar to the same process. We would take clients through as CFPs as certified financial planners, right? You want to, we first, have an initial conversation with somebody to get an understanding of where they're coming from and what the situation looks like. And we can even help. And then once they decide to work with us, the 1 of the 1st exercises we'll take them through is understanding what their goals and objectives are. We want to understand hey, story I'm sorry this is happening to you. But 1 of these days, you're going to be, you're going to be a newly found single person. What do you want that life to look like? Do you want, are you concerned about your own retirement? Or do you want to travel more? Because now you have all this freedom to be able to do it. You're not bogged down by your significant other. Where do you have, are there kids involved? And do we want to, are we concerned about covering their college costs? And so on and so forth. And we'll spend, the very first meeting we have with them, probably a lot like you take your clients through, which is, Understanding, what's really drives them and what makes them tick. And I think once we can figure out what that looks like, then that helps set the stage and effectively creates our true north of all what we're, everything we're trying to accomplish as we take them through the divorce. And then we'll, once we have the lay of the land there, we'll start to go through the exercise of, gathering the financial information from them, organizing it in a way where we can actually use it at through negotiations. And we work with people in all 50 states, which is 1 of the blessings that zoom in this virtual environment has brought about for us. And since we're not legal experts, we don't have to be legal experts. We can work with people in every state. Every state has different requirements from a financial reporting perspective and the document specific documents. You have to provide to the courts. So we'll give the client those documents and we'll help them or we'll work with their attorney to get those documents to the courts. But it's, understanding the goals and objectives. Let's organize all the information and let's start figuring out a way to use this information so we can help you through the negotiations to get you through this process and achieve a fair number equitable outcome. Very similar to traditional financial planning, but a little more nuanced, so to speak.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

Since you've been through it yourself and obviously you have a bunch of clients that have gone through it. Can you answer this question where or what is the value to having someone like you an expert in that realm? Handling a majority of this as opposed to an attorney from a value perspective But also just you know from a process perspective

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

from a process perspective It's a little more I feel like it's a little more seamless Where, and what I mean by that is, if you, and this kind of ties into the second part of your question, when you have an attorney who is handling the legal aspects of the divorce, and then you have someone like myself as a financial professional handling the financial aspect, and they work cohesively together, It's a it's a much better, it was much more seamless process. What I've seen is in people that don't hire us first, and because we want to come in very early stages, we want to come in the first inning here, right? I don't want to come in two minutes left in the two minutes left in the fourth quarter, because there's not a whole heck of a lot we're going to do at that point. We want to come in very early in the game. And for those people that do come to us and they've gone through this process with their attorney and they, or they've tried to do it themselves, And they don't have the experience that we have on the financial side and they don't have the you know Maybe they're not getting the help on the legal side what we see a lot Happen is the attorneys and god bless them because I could never do the work that they do Facts, but a lot of them fumble through the financial piece. They don't know the difference between them I shouldn't say all of them gonna take that back most of them Don't know the difference between a stock and a bond and a 401k and an IRA or a TSP plan or a deferred compensation plan. They don't, they just don't understand it. It's not their world that we live in this world, they don't understand it. So if we can again be the financial specialist and then we have the legal specialist on the other side, it's a much more, much better experience. And going back to your question about value. It's usually less expensive because we're working with efficiencies where the finance we can do things much faster and more effective and efficiently on the financial side, as well, the attorney on the legal side, if they can just stay in their lane. And I think it'll keep more money in your pocket. It may seem counterintuitive to hire 2 people to help you through this process, but in the end, in my experience so far, it is less expensive.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

Let's tie that back to our traditional side of financial planning. My firm we, I deem it like the modern family office persona, right? Where we're focusing on the bigger picture, hiring people in the right team, whether it is an attorney, CPA, bookkeeping or whatnot. In your practice and in your mind within our industry, how important is it to have that team working efficiently with each other?

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

I tell people all the time, the first thing you want to do, if you think you're going to get a divorce before you even tell your significant other, before you tell your loved ones that you want a divorce. You need to start thinking about creating team you if you think it's going to get contentious and you're going to need the legal help, then let's look at finding an attorney, let's work on, let's hire somebody like myself, and, or someone on my team or other CDFs that there's 3000 CDFs across the country. You can find one in your hometown. You can work with somebody like myself, virtually they're out there, but you should also be adding people like a divorce coach, divorce coaches that are out. And I had no idea these people existed seven years ago when I went through my own divorce and I probably could have used one. They will help you with the emotional aspects of the divorce. They'll help you with understanding what the process looks like, how to handle negotiations through mediation, all of it. And so it's a, they're not quite therapists, but they're But there is some, there's some support from a mental health perspective and a psychological aspects of divorce through a divorce coach. And I'm a big fan of therapists. I'm a big fan of getting therapy and getting the mental health support that you need. And if you hire a therapist surround your and surround yourself with loved ones and bring them into the mix to let them know that you're going to need their support. And if you can do that, it's going to be much, much better experience for you. Now, I don't think you need every single piece of the puzzle. Maybe not. Everybody needs every single piece, but. These are the four people, the four major categories of people that I would be thinking about if you're going to go down this path. And for you personally, you know yourself best. Who do you think you're going to, you're going to need the most support from and start adding them to, team you to help you through this process.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

But Jamie, like you're my planner for our household and I'm going through a divorce. What if we both want you, how do we deal with that? What, what advice do you give when couples have one planner, they work with, it's a household situation. I'm sure that gets sticky.

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

We've had that situation come up a couple of times and the reality is that we can't, as this, we're fiduciaries, right? As CFPs, we're fiduciaries. We have to put everybody else's needs ahead of our own. We have to avoid conflicts of interest and there's an inherent conflict of interest in those, in these relationships. If you. I am a certified mediator, so there's some benefit of doing the work as a mediator and trying to be Switzerland, so to speak, and help couples through this exercise for when you already have an established relationship with someone it's beneficial to them to hire a neutral third party, so we refer people out all the time. In, in our situation it's a little bit different'cause we, with Allegiant, we have, I also have another CDFA and CFP on the team. So we could technically let her do that work and I would just stay out of it. But we haven't gone that route just yet. We usually refer her out and we'll be there to support them through the, distribute, transfer of assets amongst each other and transitioning into their new life and so on. But I personally I can't I would. And

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

that's ultimately, again, that's our duty and our job as the CFPs is to also go help find that, find that person who can bridge that gap for you and you're going to help support that process. Because we can make it more efficient knowing what we know on that handoff. But it does make sense not to be knee deep in, in the divorce. Ultimately, what have you found being the hardest thing, like the most difficult, Whether it's conversation or moving piece when it comes to divorce.

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

Hardest thing is getting all the information needed to provide solid advice. In all facets of the divorce usually and this is I don't want to come off as a sexist person here But what i'll share with my experience so far 99 percent of the folks that we work with are women mostly stay at home mostly stay at home moms people that are you know, They've never really had a career because they didn't have to because they were staying home raising the children and so on they also Don't involve themselves in the financial conversation You probably come across this too, where there's usually one decision maker in the family, and again, not to sound sexist, but this is just my experience. It's usually the dude, it's usually the man and the husband, right? There's one decision maker, they're the ones that come to a lot of meetings, they're the ones that drive the conversation, they're the ones that come to your office and, want to look at their investments and so on. Wife stays at home, she's taking care of the kids, and she's yep. No need for me to be involved that happens more often than not. Unfortunately. So if you're listening and that is you are doing yourself and your family a disservice by not participating in those conversations because 1 day, if it comes to the fact that this type of crossroad and you're going to and you decide to part ways and go in different directions. You're going to need to understand where all the bodies are buried. What kind of accounts do I have? Do I, does he have a, does he have a retirement account? Do I have a retirement account? What about this pension thing over here? What about this deferred compensation plan? What about this brokerage account? So on and so forth. That happens a lot and it makes it really difficult when it comes time for us to gather all that information because we get it in fits and starts. Oh I found this other account. What do you mean you found this other account? We asked you three weeks ago about this account. It happens all the time. And then in many cases, one person doesn't want to give up the information. Maybe they're hiding something. Maybe they're not, maybe they're just trying to make it more difficult and make it more expensive. That was when I decided not to want a divorce, that's what I was told. I'm going to make this as expensive and as painful as possible. That was the, those were the last words I heard before I walked out of the house. Some people just have that mentality, right? And it makes it very difficult to get a fair and equitable settlement. If you don't have all the pieces of the puzzle,

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

That's a very good point. In, in my, experience with my clients, I'm, it's actually reversed roles, but it's always one person in and one person not really caring at all. And you got to do your best, even if you are the one who is the decision maker to involve your spouse as much as possible. Because this is usually in the contention where I've had a few clients go through divorce. It's usually this issue that causes the most stress, the most time and the most money. And when they're all on the same page, usually it's relatively easy, flat, and we can get in and out. So make sure you're, introducing at least having the conversation every now and again, they don't have to go to every meeting, but for the most point, know where everything is, or at least access to get to it.

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

And if it's you, that's trying to, playing that game and trying to hide the information, guess what, we're going to find it one way or another, whether we find it through wet by way of, some of the, we're not forensic, we're not forensic accountants, but you know how it is. You can look at a tax return. You can look at a financial statement and you can start to see where does that transfer come from? What is this deduction for? What is this, you can start to find things through W 2s and tax returns and looking at the account statements, especially if you've been doing it as long as we have. Second to that, if you don't provide any information, the courts are going to compel you to give the information up anyway. So you can drag it out for months and just make it super expensive. But one way, we're going to get them, we're going to get the information. It just may take us a little more time and cost you a little bit more money.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

Absolutely. All right. Talk through since you do work in all these states, let's talk through a little bit of the divorce process. How long does it take? What should people expect? What are some things when they're going into these situations?

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

You're looking at about six to 12 months, depending on the state. I'm in California, so we have a six month cooling off period here in California. If you file July, by July 1st, all goes well, you could be divorced by the end of the year. Nevada, which is, which I laugh about all the time, has a one day cooling off period. So if you go to the little white chapel and get yourself, it's three o'clock in the morning, you've had a couple cocktails and decide it's time to tie the knot and change your mind the next day, No problem. You can get divorced the next day. Not a big deal. But most states are somewhere between, 3 to 6 months cooling off period somewhere in that realm. So it, it can take a little while. Our process is we're at about. Takes us about 3 months or so to start really getting, putting ourselves in a position where we can really start negotiating, and most states will require you to mediate anyway. And it, that could be, there's usually about 90 days, maybe 120 days out from. Our once, once people sign up with us and they start sending us the information, our first meeting, we ask for two weeks and then just to give us time to go through it, make sure we start putting, we put it into our financial planning software and and then we'll sit with the client just to review it, make sure the data is valid and accurate. That's about a two week time for timeframe for us, but it's really the courts that we wait on. Sometimes it, it could take a while. Courts for sure.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

As is everything, right? We're always waiting on the courts or the government or some, somebody or something, right? It's usually not the person. What is it what does it cost to work with a firm like yours when someone's going through this?

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

We take a 3, 000 retainer. And we bill at 300 an hour for the work that we do. Most cases are somewhere between five to 10 hours worth of work. If it's a pretty straightforward case, we're on the five, five hour spectrum end of the spectrum. If it's a little more complex, it could be 10 hours worth of work. So we take a 3, 000 retainer just to cover the full 10 hours. And then if people you know, if we get through it in seven hours and the dust has settled, you just send you the money back for whoever's, whatever's left on the retainer. It's not a big deal. But I think, when you look at the cost of working with an attorney to try to fumble through all this stuff, you're looking at five to 10 grand, easy by the 10 grand for an attorney to to do. That's usually the starting point. And I've seen attorneys we, where we go through this process, we go do all this work and they go back and redo it because they're trying to, they're trying to rack up the billable hours, which is a problem. And. It's just, they'll spend three or 4, 000 just going through the financial piece and we've, we can do it in three hours. It's nothing. A mediation is a little bit less expensive. We charge we do it per session in mediation. It's 300 per one hour session. And I've seen it where we go two or three sessions and it's done. Sometimes it takes five sessions depending on how complex things are. So under 2, 000 for a fully mediated. Negotiated documented. It will even give them the documents that they can take to file with the courts. The document is called a memorandum of understanding. We'll give them the memorandum and they'll take that to the courts and file with the courts and be divorced for less than a couple of grand. It's

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

that's,

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

it's not that expensive. You've all attorneys. It's going to get expensive.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

Yeah. So attorneys listening, can you guys knock the shit out, please? This racking up billable hours, charging 15 per text and email. Like just make it simple. Your life would be easier. I promise. All right. So we've gotten through that. Now let's just talk about your overall financial planning and in our industry specifically. I like to ask this question of other CFPs because I feel like, again, I feel like our industry is doing a shift currently you having, both the divorce side and the traditional side is part of that shift. When it becomes, when you, when we're talking about CFPs and what we do as our industry, what do you think is the common misconception happening or has happened when it comes to. The term financial planning or what we actually do for clients

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

biggest misconception And I bet you would agree with this is that it takes a million dollars in your brokerage account to work with somebody like us

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

Yes, absolutely

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

And that was we didn't really talk much about my background I'll just share with you a little bit about this and it'll fully answer this question And or add some more details on the question But when I started in this career, I worked with you know a company called morgan stanley You And I was there for about five or six years. And then I went to another company called Fidelity Investments. When I was at Fidelity, I had 450 clients and I managed, which I didn't make manage what we had under administration assets under administration. 1. 2 billion across those 450 households. You can not do true financial planning in that environment. You can, you like good luck knowing what's what, story. Does for work. Never mind what his loved ones names are, what his goals and objectives are when you're working with that many people. It's impossible. So I had to be really good at taking notes and making sure I, I did that just to keep my head straight. But when I launched my own firm 4 years ago, my mandate to myself was, I'm going to work with a much smaller crowd. And we're going to work with people that don't necessarily have to have a million dollars to work with you because that was a problem that I ran into. If you work with 450 people at Fidelity, you can't work with somebody that has 50, 000 saved up, but they need the help. Because you just don't have, you're spread too thin, you don't have enough time. But when you, in my new world, I work with 65 clients. We have 25 million, 27 million, somewhere in that range as far as assets under management, which, but we also do strictly just financial planning engagements. We don't, you don't have to bring all your money to the firm for us to manage it. We charge a simple monthly subscription for the financial planning that we do. And we can work with people that are just starting off and need the help because as long as they're willing to pay for it, as long as they see some value in paying for the service and they're willing to pay for it, it's not going to be a burden to their budget. It's a perfect fit for us. We can, so you can work with us for a year or two. Right off into the sunset. And then, we'll see you in five years when things change, right? There's no long term commitment. It's just very different. And I think to circle back to the answer to your question, it's that you don't need a million dollars to get the help that you're looking for any longer. That's the biggest shift.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

Absolutely. And I really will piggyback on that. The shift is getting away from investments and I'm so glad it is because investments are just a tool to your wealth journey. They're not. The end all be all right, and I say I quote this all the time And I just keep saying it is I don't care Jamie if you guaranteed me a billion dollar return if I have zero dollars Able to invest. It's still zero. And so being able to take care of the planning and get things moving in the right direction is the only way people can build their wealth. And if we all had minimums of a million, what is that? 90 something percent of the population wouldn't have a planner. That's just realistic. That's just ridiculous. So I appreciate you going that route. What type of clients are your ideal clientele?

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

Typically, they're somewhere between the age of 30 and 50. So also a shift to working with a younger group. In my old life, most of the people that I've worked with were 60 plus 60, 65 plus retiring and working on spending their money, not necessarily growing their wealth. 30 to 30 to 50, 35 to 55, somewhere in that age range is a typical client that we work with. Usually what I call them, the mid career professionals right there, they're not necessarily just starting off that we work with a few people that are really just, the early stages of the careers, but they're, they've had a job or 2 and now they're director level and maybe an above managers of different organizations. They work, they have things like now they're getting executive compensation, stock options, restricted stock units, those types of things. Things are getting a little more complex. They maybe need help now with more tax planning and tax preparation, which is something we can provide them, but also things like estate planning and insurance needs. Those are all things that are starting to come up now. Those are the typical people that we work with. And it's, I love it. I get fired up about it because there's so many different moving parts. And to your point, None of them have all investments, right? Invent for us, investments are like 10 percent of the puzzle. The other 90 percent is all this other ancillary stuff that if I wasn't in this world, and if I would need help with college planning, things of that nature.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

Yeah. Just everyday stuff. Just help me with everyday questions that I have. That is what I need. I don't need to know the next hottest stock in the world. And. I think a lot of it happens. I was just at the shift conference earlier this year speaking, and we all got together and we were just talking about like clients don't care, really, truly do not care about their investments. They care if whatever plan they have reaches the goals that they want. If that takes a 5 percent return, awesome. If that takes a 20 percent return, okay. They don't really care about the return per se. They care about reaching their goals. It just is driven so much in the media about returns and, beating the S& P 500 and all of those things. It's if they reach their goals, none of that really matters because they're carrying whatever that goal is. If it's traveling, if it's retirement, if it's having kids, whatever that is, that matters more than, a couple extra basis points.

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

Absolutely. If you know that you can drive, you have a plan to get from point A to point B. And if you could, you drove 55 miles an hour there with, your seatbelt on and you stayed in your lane and so on, and you could get there safely on time, you would take that route all day long. But instead, what happens is all this tick tock advice that's out there, makes us want to like, drive 100 miles an hour and like swerving in a lot of lanes because I got to get there. I have to get there. I have to get to the next thing. And it's not. It's not practical. It's not advisable for sure. And I tell people all the time but let's just, if we can get mid single digit returns for the duration of the time that we're working together and your retirement plan is on track, you're gonna be able to achieve the hopes, dreams, wishes, and aspirations that you have. We're not going to take any more risks than that, right? It just doesn't make any sense. So if you're getting your advice from TikTok and not folks like, myself and Stoy, you're again, you're doing your family a disservice.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

Absolutely. Please. For the love of God,

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

do

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

not listen to the tick talkers. Okay, influencers please don't. I'm I'm very grateful. And I say this a lot of the pandemic not for, obvious reasons, but for the reasons that our industry, we went virtual, right? And I technically launched my firm. In 2020 as well, but it's because we're allowed to now go virtual, which is a blessing, which also forced the sec to get a little better on their rules. So we can be involved with these things to get actual, voices out there that, our fiduciaries and have a responsibility to the public, to not spew. Basically the bullshit around. So I'm so glad you brought that up. We could have, I'm really thinking about just having a panel of all of us, just having a couple drinks and just talking about the bullshit we see. It just, it's infuriating, but I divulge as we get to the the finish line here, what are a couple of things or one thing that you want to leave everyone with as they're, maybe potentially thinking about a divorce, have friends that are going through a divorce, anyone in that realm, what do you want to leave them with?

Jamie Lima, CFP®, CDFA®:

I think I would leave them with. The advice that someone very early in my career gave me, and I think about this a lot, it's use your resources. Use your resources. There are a lot of us out here that are doing this work because we're passionate about it, because we get fired up about it, because we like helping people. It's not a money grab for us, right? I think, a 3, 000 retainer to work with somebody like myself for like basically getting six months of work and support, that's not a lot to invest. Especially when you have to worry about your the next 5, 10, 20 years of your life post divorce, maybe even longer than that, depending on how old you are. So there are a lot of resources out here. We have a Facebook group that we just started a couple months back and we have a few hundred people that are just joining us in there just to get some free advice. And I, we're not salesy. We don't, you don't need an email address to sign up and all this other stuff. We have, there's a bunch of free resources on our, on the website. Okay. Again, no first name, last name, email address. Leverage, your friends and therapists, divorce coaches. If you have to hire an attorney, leverage the review. Understand the work that they can do and to be able to support you through this use Your resources because there are a lot of people out here That are willing to that are willing to help that are ready to help that are trained to help people through this process You don't have to go it alone. Right and if other financial advisors are listening to this, you know as well and tuning in which they should definitely be We're not here to poach clients so use us as a resource as well. If I'm just going to guess if you have a case coming up in the next few months, you're going to probably call me to help you through it. We're all here to help each other. So there are teams of us out here that are just willing to help. Use the resources because there's a lot of them out there.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:

He is not a paid actor and the transition I'm about to go to was not designed, but at no BS wealth podcast, we are building the community of these people that are your resources that we call vetted partners. So go ahead, check it out on the website. Let us know if you want Jamie and his team on there. I'm going to be voting for them vetted partners because we need experts in that realm. But truthfully, what he just said is exactly why we have no BS. The podcast. Bring the no bullshit stuff, bring transparency to you, but have amazing people who are resources throughout any industry and anything that you can do that, you can go trust because you've heard it here first and I have vetted them out personally. So I appreciate it again. Thanks for the transition. And I love that, but appreciate everything that you do and we'll likely have you as vetted partners and we'll see you we'll see you soon. All right, man. Thanks for having me.

Black Mammoth:

The proceeding program was sponsored by Black Mammoth. Any awards, rankings, or recognition by unaffiliated third parties or publications are in no way indicative of the advisor's future performance or any individual client's investment success. No award ranking or recognition should be construed as a current or past endorsement of black mammoth. Information regarding specific awards, rankings, or recognitions is available on the Black Mammoth website, www.black mammoth.com. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. Investment strategies such as asset allocation, diversification, or rebalancing do not assure or guarantee better performance and cannot eliminate the risk of investment losses. There are no guarantees that a portfolio employing these or any other strategy will outperform a portfolio that does not engage in such strategies. This broadcast should not be construed by any client or prospective client as a solicitation to affect or attempt to affect transactions and securities or the rendering of personalized investment advice due to various factors including changing market conditions. The information discussed in this broadcast may no longer be reflective of current positions or recommendations. While information presented is believed to be factual and up to date, Black Mammoth do not guarantee its accuracy, and it should not be regarded as a complete analysis of the subjects discussed. The tax and the state planning information discussed is general in nature, and is provided for informational purposes only, and should not be construed as legal or tax advice. Listeners should consult an attorney or tax professional regarding their specific legal or tax situation. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

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