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Ep. 94 - Diversity Isn't Dead: How to Fight Corporate BS and Build Real Inclusion w/ Victoria Pelletier

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Buckle up, folks. We're diving deep with Victoria Pelletier, a corporate powerhouse who's built a career that'll make your head spin. From running a hair salon at 11 to becoming a COO at 24, Victoria's journey is anything but ordinary.

In this no-holds-barred conversation, we tackle the evolving landscape of work, the rollercoaster of diversity and inclusion efforts, and why corporate life isn't the soul-sucking monster some make it out to be. Victoria drops truth bombs about what employees really want post-pandemic (spoiler: it ain't just a paycheck) and why DEI initiatives need to be more than just a box-ticking exercise.

But here's the kicker - Victoria's not just talking theory. She's lived it. From overcoming a traumatic childhood to navigating corporate politics, she's developed a resilience that's downright inspiring. Her five-step approach to "healthy resilience" is something you'll want to tattoo on your forearm.

Whether you're climbing the corporate ladder, running your own gig, or just trying to figure out what the hell you want to do with your life, Victoria's insights will light a fire under your ass. She's proof that you can thrive in the corporate world without selling your soul, and that side hustles can be more than just a pipe dream.

Don't just take my word for it. Hit up Victoria's socials and see for yourself:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Victoria.Pelletier.Speaker Website: https://victoria-pelletier.com/ Twitter: https://x.com/PelletierV29 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/VictoriaPelletierNoExcuses Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/victoria_pelletier_unstoppable/?hl=en LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/victoriapelletier/

Now, stop making excuses and start making moves. Your future self will thank you.

Follow our Host, Stoy Hall:
Twitter, FaceBook, Instagram, Tiktok, Linkedin

Stoy Hall, Host:

The world, as we know, it has changed quite a bit since the pandemic. Since before that, we've got older generations. We've got the most generations working all at once, but ultimately, what's more important is who you are and what's going to happen today. We have Victoria Pelletier. I did it. And today we're going to focus on what the future of work looks like. A little, diversity and inclusion, the good, bad about that as well, and ultimately how she got to where she's at from a mindset perspective. Without further ado, Victoria, why don't you lay it on us?

Victoria Pelletier:

Thanks for having me. I'm very happy to be here. Now lay it on. What would you like to know?

Stoy Hall, Host:

Yes. Let's start with how, which is how your career started in general, right? And then how you decided from corporate to, now having your own speaking, being on podcast, what we've envisioned that to drive you that far.

Victoria Pelletier:

So I have a really unique background, although I'm sure most people think their journeys are unique. But so I started working at age 11. I know child labor laws now would not allow that. But I worked in a hair salon and then my first leadership role came at 14. I was the assistant manager of the shoe store that I worked at while in high school. I actually thought I was going to be a lawyer. I think my mom who, made me watch her television shows had me watch a lot of LA Law back in, and that gives away my age. I'm now in my late forties. And so that was the plan. Went off to university did my undergrad and then worked in financial services in banking and got promoted up through the ranks. And when I was graduating the bank I worked for offered me a relocation across the country to, I'm originally from Canada. So to Toronto, which is the largest city in the country. And I thought, great, like I'll take a year off before law school. And if I love Toronto, I'll switch schools and go there. Otherwise I'll move back out West. And I ended up doing neither of those things, never moved back. Toronto became home and I realized I love the corporate world. And so I moved up the ranks pretty quickly. By age 24, I got recruited into my first. executive role. I became the chief operating officer for an outsourcing company. Big stretch role for me. I had everything but finance reporting to me, but they had large banking clients and I had been running large banking call center operations, which was their business. I should note I've actually built and bought Businesses my entire life. My first was at 20. I bought the casting agency. I was a like part time actor about the casting agency that represented me, sold it after I got relocated to Toronto and then have built in and bought other businesses since then. And so I love. The journey, I've got this incredible entrepreneurial spirit that I've, been leading within some of the big fortune 500 companies that I work for, as well as always maintaining a side hustle. And so the current side hustle that I want to remain quite frankly, my side hustle business, I've built a portfolio career so that by the time I actually retire and my husband jokes, that's never happening. But if it does, it will already exist. I sit on boards, I do a little bit of coaching and consulting, and I'm a public speaker. And so I do that now currently and speak on a wide variety of topics. And then last thing I'll say, wife, mother to two great now adult humans one for baby and I'm a fitness fanatic foodie and wine lover.

Stoy Hall, Host:

Ooh, foodie. I can get behind that. I love me some food. I got two boys as well not grown and nor should they be yet. They are not ready for this world. That, that, that is amazing. And I, the, I want to talk about your side gigs that have happened over time. Have they became because of passion because of happenstance? What are the side projects to you and how did they come about?

Victoria Pelletier:

It's both. So I think of the first one, the casting agency was opportunistic. I wasn't about to leave my job in, in banking at that point. I bought my first house at 19. So it was, I didn't think that acting, even though I was getting paid for some of what I was doing, was going to pay the bills, the two guys who'd moved from Vancouver to Calgary where I was at the time wanted to go back. And I had been helping them out with some education for like new people, like think extras, just educating them a little bit, what it's like on sets, et cetera. And so they were ready to go. And I think almost shutter, shutter it up and walk away. And I was like whoa no. And so that one, it's not like I had, I thought this is the business I was going to be in. And I knew it wasn't going to be full time for me. So that was that one. One was pure passion. So I think in my early twenties, I've always loved natural bath and body works products, and I learned that it's not as hard as you think to make them. And so I started making them at home for myself, but you don't make a single bar of soap, right? You need to make a loaf for which you cut up into 10 or 12 bars, and then You know, moving into creams, lotions, again, not very different. And so I ended up making like a plethora of products and I created gifts, gift baskets for friends over the holidays and they were hugely popular. So I turned it into a business. I enlisted my entire family and I had a nanny at that point who, she also helped out a little bit with it. And then it grew to a point where I couldn't maintain it. And so I sold. The business. And then one of the more recent ones in 2017, I bought a data and analytics company. I had been looking at buying something more in the health and wellness space because I met my husband on vacation. So he retired 25 year career in health and wellness to move to my city and subsequently adopted my children. My ex had passed away. And so it was going to be a business. I was the finance person coming into it, but he was going to run it. But I was coaching my youngest hockey team. Again, as I said, Canadian proud, proud Canadian play hockey, kids played hockey. And the moms of one of the other kids on the team she and I just clicked and we went out for lunch and she said, Oh, I have these different businesses. And this newer one that I have this, really it was market research, but really what I saw was, no, it's a technology platform that's. Currently doing mostly market research, but can be broadly utilized for data and analytics of all sorts. So I saw an incredible opportunity and then acquired it. And so six months later, it was mine. Husband ended up working in that, which was weird because he's not a corporate guy. And and then sold it, I don't know, 18 or 24 months later.

Stoy Hall, Host:

So opposites do attract. You're a corporate woman. He's not a corporate guy.

Victoria Pelletier:

Correct. Correct. Works very well.

Stoy Hall, Host:

I love that you. One represent corporate and love the hell out of it. Not everyone does, but ultimately also have the side gigs, have the entrepreneur spirit, if you will. Do you ever look back at your childhood or how you were raised to go? Yeah, that makes sense. Now, like I, I was already on this track because of how I was raised or any of that.

Victoria Pelletier:

For sure. I actually, I think, so I've got a a backstory that is it's a big part of my why and my drive. And I tell it openly, so as I share it now, you might go, Oh, ouch. I'm very comfortable with what I'm going to share with you. So I'm born to a drug addicted teenage mother who beat. My first many years of life. I'm fortunate to have been adopted out of that situation. Remained an only child. But my parents were, from a lower socioeconomic position. My mom was a secretary and my dad was a janitor. And I remember my mom saying to me when I was 10 or 11 years old Tori, you need to do better than us. And that was. I was fortunate not to be gifted academically, so she didn't have to push me too hard that way. But she wanted to make sure I maintained those marks so I could go off to university and achieve more and better than they did. And I don't think she actually had to say those words to me because there was something, innately in me that wanted to probably prove something to the world that I was gonna be better than either the biology. or the circumstance. And so I pushed hard. And my def definition of success has evolved substantially particularly when we think about wealth. Because for me, I achieved that by moving up higher and higher up the ranks and having material possessions meant something more to me because again, it was an outward, reflection to the world of my success. And it. Like I said, it later changed for me. So now my definition was success means many different things. And although it's nice to be able to go on vacations and things like that, I really look at happiness and joy and success from a career standpoint and a life standpoint very differently.

Stoy Hall, Host:

Yeah. And that's what my definition of true wealth is that happiness, that joy, ability to live life and do things on your own or the way you want them to be done. And money is just the tool to that. I don't have as similar as a background, but I was a single parent or a single child with a single mom who worked 12 hour shifts at the bar. And so I have some of that feeling as well when you were saying that. And so when it comes down to the materialistic, I was the same way. I thought that same thing. And then we went to Tanzania when I was in college to play a football game down there and work on the orphanage. And it clicked to me what wealth was like what life was about. And that's. Just about your community being happy and joyful because that's all they have there. They don't have a, a hundredth of what we have here, even in the States. So it's really cool to hear that from a different perspective and a Canadian. Of course that's always different. So I can see how that kind of put you on your path and put you into a corporate. What do you love so much about corporate? I cannot, I am not a corporate person. I can't do it. I, it just eats me alive. I had to get out of mine pretty quick. What, what makes you so happy and passionate about the corporate? Life style, I guess

Victoria Pelletier:

it what I have found, and particularly after I moved out of the world of like banking and which was like a business to consumer business, I moved into the world of B to B professional services. There came an added level of complexity. All business is complex, but in that instance, I had one, I other stakeholder to serve. So you've got your, shareholders. And in this case, you've got clients that you're serving who pay the bills and you're supporting either their customers or their employees, as well as your own employees as part of that. And so for me I found the corporate world created much more complexity. I am I've, Even though I have started and bought small businesses, I'm not really a startup girl. I'm about scale and growth and transformation. And that has been offered to me to like really great extent, really huge challenges to solve for by working in large corporate. My first two executive roles were private. Companies still many thousands of employees, but then when I got into that fortune 500 and even in my last many years, it's fortune 100 companies. So they're massive. I just left Accenture last year. 750, 000 people IBM before that. So there's. I'm not going to say I love this, but I've learned how to navigate and navigate it. And this in itself creates complexity and challenge for me is the matrix and the politics. And I'm, I've got this maniacal focus on trying to, Build successful businesses, but by doing it the right way. And actually I've had to fight back in some of these organizations to, to do that, because there are some trade offs sometimes in this huge corporate environment to meet shareholder objectives, which don't always align with employee or long term customer success.

Stoy Hall, Host:

Yeah. And I think that's what most people think of, right? And we think of the corporate greed, if you will, which by the way, is out there, even in good companies, I still believe there's some facet of corporate greed, and that's why a lot of people just don't like it. And don't want to be a part of it, but it is a game to be played. I don't like politics either, which is mainly the reason to get out of corporate for me. But ultimately that's what it comes down to. What have you seen over last five, 10 years in the corporate setting that has drawn it a little more away from corporate greed and a little more to culture and focus on the employees?

Victoria Pelletier:

The employees demanded it, quite frankly, I think not even in the last five or maybe it's close to five now. I think the pandemic shifted incredibly what employees want and so wanting to work for a company and work for leaders that were connected to purpose. impact and shared values. And so then we heard, I hate like that the headlines that have been grabbed by talking about the great resignation or quiet quitting. But the reality is that employees were demanding something very different than when I entered the workforce of this whole command and control type of environment. So not just the companies, but again, as I said, leaders, they want to work, for people. And we know that Most people leave their leaders. They don't leave their companies. And so they're looking to work for and with people again, that are aligned to values where there's a great sense of belonging where they can show up their whole selves, where they feel trusted, where they feel appreciated, where they recognize, I think the definition now for, and I look at my older son is, In the workforce, he's 24 when he, was coming out of colleges and we were, and I was talking to him about, what work was going to look like and where you should go and apply their definition of success. And that Gen Z population is much more or not success. I should say security job security is more around investment in them and making sure that we're going to continue to improve their skills over time because they're changing so rapidly. And so that's incumbent upon the leaders to help. Identify what propensity to learn and skills people have versus where the need and where they're going towards.

Stoy Hall, Host:

What does someone do if they're in that, right? They want that, but that leader isn't there or that culture isn't a fit. Now, obviously I say leave and go find something else, but is there a better route than just saying peace out? Is there something that employees should be looking at or even managers, leaders, listening that. I really should tune into this and start to learn and change.

Victoria Pelletier:

I think there is a benefit to working in some of these large companies in that there's a lot of opportunity to move around. I've found people in the likes of, so I've moved around every few years. I've been a part. Or supported 40 mergers and acquisitions, a corporate restructure. And so I've moved, which is a little bit more unusual for the Gen X er that I am. It's much more common now for the newer generations. But in these big companies, you have the opportunity to move around. I have talked to colleagues at the likes of, IBM, Aon, Accenture, the last few companies I worked for, and they've been there for 20 years, but they've said, Hey, I had a new job every two. So that is something that is great. So for those who experience a poor leader in a company that would allow them to move around I'm, I sign a lot of my social media posts with two hashtags. One is unstoppable. Nothing is going to prevent me from achieving a goal or objective. I've set for myself to. Is no excuses. And by that, and my children hate it, but but by that, you can't always prevent the challenge, the adversity or having a crappy boss, but you do have a choice how you're going to respond to it. And so attempt to make a change. Ideally it's. It could be within the organization. If you believe in the company holistically, products and services, you feel that there's opportunity for growth, then find a way to navigate and make a change. If they're like a really toxic, horrible person, then go to your HR team and have a conversation. And then if after attempting to make it work. It doesn't then to your point, leave. And if you choose to stay, stop bitching about it.

Stoy Hall, Host:

Absolutely. I just stopped bitching about it at some point, if you're not going to do anything like it's time. This is a off the cuff question. Cause I was just with a group. What were we talking about? It was on Twitter yesterday and it got brought up that and I had, someone had said some question about some employee did something, but didn't talk to anybody in this company. And this is where I said, I believe all HR should be third party. Now that is obviously in the smaller sense, when you're looking at a 750, 000 people, That's probably a little more difficult, but what is your opinion on like the HR departments being third party? So they don't represent, the business themselves, but they truly are there for the employees.

Victoria Pelletier:

There's, so I'm a little biased in that I have run human capital businesses. So many companies that have outsourced a large portion of their HR to the companies I've worked for. So clearly I'm a supporter of that, but I do actually think that the critical roles of HR, the leaders for each of the kind of functional areas of HR need to be with, within the company itself and the role of the HR business partner, which is that strategic business partner to each of the business leaders, which is always often that touch point. Should again be, within the company just because there's so much around like strategy and other I think they need to be we need to view HR as a strategic business partner. For me, if HR doesn't report directly to the CEO, that tells me a lot about how they think about culture. Many times it's with, finance or somewhere. And sometimes that's where, the decisions get made on bonuses. Okay, fine. But it needs to be the strategic business partner to to. The business leaders themselves, but I think there always needs to be opportunities and places that are safe for them to report. And whether that is a separate HR contact center that receives it 1st, that's independent and then many times there's a separate group. Within HR, the HR function that handles these type of things and absolutely a big part of their role should be around remaining completely unbiased in neither the position of, for the company, or the employee, but hearing both sides and trying to do the right thing.

Stoy Hall, Host:

It's a big piece. Everyone like your HR department is supposed to be there for you. To bridge with the company and not, yes, they get paid by the company and I get all of that stuff, but ultimately they're here for you to help build on the culture and to deal with, whatever issues that may pop up, which I'm glad my staff is small and they can come directly to me and I go buy him a drink and we'll be fine. So it's a little easier when it's a smaller group. When you've seen this change since the pandemic and something that's gotten, it spiked because we had the black lives matter movement. We had a whole bunch of the civil rights stuff. Prior to the pandemic that no one talks about anymore, which then brought up a huge run on DEI stuff, right? I don't know how many job offers I got in that space. Probably weekly for a good two months on that. And now you're starting to see companies get rid of those departments and the heads of those. Can you talk to us about like why you believe they popped up and now why you believe those are dying off, if you will?

Victoria Pelletier:

I'm saddened by the steps back we've made here in the U S on the diversity front. I think there was an outcry because as you said, there were just so many incidents that were continuing. It wasn't new. We're continuing to happen. So it just, it brought it to the forefront to highlight the difference in lived experiences for those from, diverse backgrounds, particularly are black or brown or LGBT friends, colleagues, neighbors And so I was happy to see that we, saw it come to the forefront with more investment for chief, I'll say chief diversity officers. I do not believe the CDO owns diversity. They should be the subject matter expert that helps report on things and help give guidance. We all own it as employees and most certainly as a leader in the business. It's always happy to see that because there's. There's a lot of education that has to happen going through, unconscious bias training, even having the conversations around what lived experience looks like for you as a black man, for me as a queer woman, like what does that look like? Although, sadly. Those of us who come from diverse backgrounds are expected to educate others. So it's this double edged sword. So I was happy to see that so saddened to see us take a step back. And I know we shouldn't be getting into any kind of political conversation but the politics changed that, and I, now I moved from New York to South Florida a few years ago, and I'm like, I'm sickened by my own governor and, how, canceling like diversity programs to save money, the reality is we are. So far from, having a diverse workforce, senior levels. And so many times I just want to present data to people. When you look at the fortune 500, less than 10 percent or in and around the 10 percent mark or female CEOs, there are only six black CEOs venture capital funding. Less than 2 percent go to women. And like maybe half a percent to black founders, like there's a problem here. And so we need to be reporting on the data. We need to create realistic goals to move that needle forward and create policies, procedures, and create education and allyship to, create a much better culture and environment for all. And I, I often talk to leaders and I'm like, stop talking about this, like a tick in the box. The reality is it actually drives better business outcomes, not to mention is great for all of us working within these environments.

Stoy Hall, Host:

Yeah, and that's where I wanted to bring that up is because it's always felt like a check mark to me in a box. Affirmative action was the same way. I feel like it was just the people that power, which are usually just the ritual white guys are the ones that are like, we should do this to smooth everything over. As soon as it's in the wayside. Okay, cool. Let's flip it back and move forward. And I believe that's where we're at with the diversity conversation. And it does sadden me, but on the flip side, I talked to a lot of those CDOs, if you will. And they're exhausted. They're exhausted because they represent basically everyone else, right? There's a lot of people you got to represent, but they take on the brunt of the education. And like you said, why should we you as a queer woman, me as a black male, be the ones to not only educate, but also have to deal with it and go back and forth the whole time that gets exhausting. And I just believe though, just like a lot of things happen in America, once things get tired, it just gets put on the back burner and then we move forward with the next thing. And that's what happening this year. It'll be the same way. It'll, it's. Stupid presidential election. That's going to be the focus. We're going to move through things and then we're going to be on the other side. And so I just want to shine light to it and all that are listening that there's people here for you to talk to, to highlight my message. And I'll say that the end is just be loud for others in what they're doing, because there's power in all of us coming together and really helping that. Appreciate that. And what you do as well. Thank you. That being said though, there's been a lot of changes since the pandemic. Both in like how we work some of them, why we work and in the real estate game, which I'm huge in, we've got commercial real estate properties and obviously people not working in office. Some are going back. Where do you see the future of work specifically in going forward to the next, five, 10, let's get past the presidential election. Cause that's always a stupid thing we got to deal with. But after that, where do you see the workforce going? What does it look like?

Victoria Pelletier:

So I see there being a hybrid. Like work environment. I know we're hearing about all of the companies that are forcing a return to a physical office. And I think it's detrimental for those who are forcing it on a near full time basis. The reality is. The workforce proved to their employers that we were able to work remotely for a couple of years and did so successfully. And in many instances, much more productively than prior that said, I do believe in incredible value of being together. Creativity and innovation, the ability to network with people that you wouldn't naturally just be on a zoom call with that, particularly for those who are earlier in their career and advancing. So it is important, but I want, and I think employers should be creating a hybrid environment, creating more flexibility for its workforce, like not forcing it on certain days. Like we have doctor's appointments or this or that, and we managed it before, but I've always had a saying, there are no schedules, they're just deliverables. And so I've created that for my teams for long before COVID. So I think that's where I think we'll land on, maybe it's three days a week, whatever it's going to be, but a hybrid environment. The other thing that's clearly going to impact us is the way we work with the use of technology and particularly with AI. We all hear about that. And I think there's, Right now I'm seeing everyone slapping on AI to things to maybe to sell or whatever. And it's okay, it's a technology, but it's not actually AI. Companies right now are holding back on hiring or they're laying off. I look at, it was fairly public message, but so I'm not breaking confidence in my old former employer, IBM. They're like, we're cutting 8, 000 jobs because AI is going to take over. There, there's a lot still to be learned about AI, how to use it effectively. There's an orchestration across business units, across processes, et cetera. So we need to be thinking a little bit more about the finite skills of our workers that are required. Doesn't get automated. The stuff that gets left behind is exception management. It's much more of the human skills that quite frankly, people aren't being taught in schools, right? I think that's one of the biggest detriments to those who, decide to go and get MBAs. You can go through and build an amazing business case, but talking about how to be a really Human leader and engage and create these great kind of cultures are missing. And that's what's going to become more critically important going forward. So the, where we work hybrid, the way we work and how we're integrating technology and looking at the skills of our people and building skills for future. To maintain the team members and institutional knowledge within the team who need new skills.

Stoy Hall, Host:

Yeah, I love that. I, you nailed it. I agree. I've been saying it too. I believe that's where it'll go. And I also believe this, yes, label it AI, whatever the technology is, has just made humans more efficient. You, I don't think there's many industries that you can cut out humans specifically. I know in the financial industry, you definitely can't because financial decisions are emotional and humans are emotional, so you have to have a human, but I really do believe that it's just building on the efficiency and being able to learn that. And then back to the culture I left my business partner what is it? About a year and a month ago when we had our team and I just said, I'm going remote, I got to get away from you. A lot of issues with that, but you still miss the human element. You still miss the, just going to be with someone in shooting the shit in their office for way too long, right? You still miss that part, but I do believe it has caused us to be more efficient. So I agree a hundred percent with you as we get to the end of our session here, can you talk through what is like one thing you want everyone to take from you and learn from you today? That allowed them to move forward and take that next step in their life. Whether that is a promotion in the executive level, whether that is piecing out corporate, like I did what is something you can leave with them to allow them to take that next step?

Victoria Pelletier:

I. Yeah. I recently gave a TED talk on resilience. The theme for the event was around resilience, which is something I spent a lot of time talking about. I refer to it to be successful with dealing with the challenge as healthy resilience. So my. Unstoppable and no excuses is very much rooted in an extreme amount of resilience, overcoming significant trauma in my childhood. And, beyond that from, my ex wife had cancer, we separated, her cancer came back, she passed away. My kids had to, suffer the loss of a parent, like lots and lots of adversity. So I said earlier, you can't always prevent. The challenge or adversity that's going to come your way, the choice is how you respond to it. And so for me I wouldn't say I had the healthy in my, up until my sort of probably late twenties, I didn't have the healthy way. I think I compartmentalized, they didn't process all of it, build a shield of protective armor. That's not healthy. And so for me, how I've learned to move forward with all of this, and even just the corporate adversity of all these M& A and restructure has been. I have this five steps to do to being healthy and resilience. First is be really clear on the goal objective or the vision you've set for yourself. That becomes the anchor for you. Always. The next is to be incredibly self reflective and self aware. When you have emotions, it's fear, insecurity. Where is this coming from? And then what I refer to as strategic intentionality, that is then with those two first pieces in place, modeling the thoughts, the language, the actions and behavior that move you towards that goal or objective, having a community. You said that earlier when talking about like diversity, find your tribe, right? Like the community that's going to support you, they'll raise you up. They should challenge you as well. And ultimately, love you. And then the last thing is just give yourself permission to fail. We will. And then when you do, if you need to grieve, do but then anchor back to your goal or objective. And just remember one foot in front of the other is progress. There

Stoy Hall, Host:

you go. You heard it here. Now, my only ask for everyone listening is to comment, engage with us. We're here to communicate with you and help you on your journey. Be loud for others. Okay. That there's another thing to say is share and do all those things. Not because of social media and all of that, but what it does is it allows someone who's out there to see it and maybe hear it and hear a message. And you don't know how it's going to change their life. So as always be loud and we appreciate you, Victoria.

Victoria Pelletier:

Thank you.

Black Mammoth:

Graham was sponsored by Black Mammoth. Any awards rankings or recognition by unaffiliated third parties or publications are in no way indicative of the advisors, future performance, or any individual clients investment success. No award ranking or recognition should be construed as a current or past endorsement of black mammoth. Information regarding specific awards, rankings, or recognitions is available on the Black Mammoth website, www.black mammoth.com. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. Investment strategies such as asset allocation, diversification, or rebalancing do not assure or guarantee better performance and cannot eliminate the risk of investment losses. There are no guarantees that a portfolio employing these or any other strategy will outperform a portfolio that does not engage in such strategies. This broadcast should not be construed by any client or prospective client as a solicitation to affect or attempt to affect transactions and securities or the rendering of personalized investment advice due to various factors, including changing market conditions. The information discussed in this broadcast may no longer be reflective of current positions or recommendations. While information presented is believed to be factual and up to date, Black Mammoth do not guarantee its accuracy, and it should not be regarded as a complete analysis of the subjects discussed. The tax and estate planning information discussed is general in nature, and is provided for informational purposes only, and should not be construed as legal or tax advice. Listeners should consult an attorney or tax professional regarding their specific legal or tax situation. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

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