NoBS Wealth

Ep. 101 - Millionaire's Secret Weapon: How Modern Family Offices Are Crushing It for the Not-So-Rich

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Alright, buckle up because we're diving deep into the world of family offices with Andrew Windham. This isn't your grandpa's wealth management strategy - we're talking about a modern, badass approach to handling your money and your life.

First things first: forget what you think you know about family offices. This isn't just for the ultra-wealthy anymore. Andrew's breaking down how entrepreneurs and business owners making anywhere from $5 million to $200 million in revenue can benefit from this concierge-style financial management.

Here's the deal: running a business is hard enough. You're juggling a million things, and let's be real, most of you are better at making money than managing it. That's where Andrew and his team come in. They're not just crunching numbers - they're coordinating every aspect of your financial life so you can focus on what you do best.

But here's the kicker - it's not just about the money. We're talking about legacy, purpose, and living a life that actually means something. Andrew's passion for helping faith-forward, purpose-driven founders is palpable. He's not here to help you buy a fancy car - he's here to help you build a life and a business that matters.

Fair warning: if you're looking for a get-rich-quick scheme or some bullshit investment advice, this ain't it. Andrew's dropping truth bombs about the complexities of wealth management, the importance of having a team, and why your values matter more than your bank balance.

But don't worry, it's not all serious talk. We're riffing on everything from the origins of family offices to the Dunning-Kruger effect in entrepreneurs. Plus, Andrew's got some killer insights on how to buy back your time and focus on what really matters.

Whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur or just starting out, there's something in this episode for you. We're breaking down the myths, sharing real-world examples, and giving you a peek behind the curtain of what modern wealth management really looks like.

So, if you're ready to take your financial game to the next level and build a legacy that lasts, this episode is your wake-up call. Let's dive in and start reimagining what's possible for your wealth and your life.

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Stoy Hall, Host:

Today's episode is near and dear to my heart because it's what my firm does at Black Mammoth. But for others out there, truly understanding what a family office is and what the modernized version of it looks like is totally different. So today we're going to have a great conversation with Amy Winnem. We're both going to attack this family office perspective, whether that's some new stories that just popped up, he told me off air or getting you to understand what they, what has been a family office, what truly is one now, how you can be a part of them. And then we're probably going to riff off that for a little bit. So I appreciate your time, sir.

Andrew Windham:

Uh, welcome on. It's great to be here man. It's so fun to talk shop with people who get you

Stoy Hall, Host:

Sure,

Andrew Windham:

absolutely

Stoy Hall, Host:

and it's in as we get into this concept like we don't have a really big pool of us Um, I think you're the first one in probably a very long time that I have actually spoken with that has the same mindset In his building it the way, you know similar to how I am and not the The old school traditional model of, you know, 25 mil and just talk about investments. So I definitely appreciate what you're going on and I'm ready to get into it.

Andrew Windham:

Cool. Let's do it, man.

Stoy Hall, Host:

All right. So let's start off with what is your definition of family office? Um, and within your practice as it stands.

Andrew Windham:

So I, I, I think if you'll give me a little liberty here, I want, I I want to do it more from a contrast because There you go. Um, I, I love just like knowing what the origin is, right? Yeah. So I'm a little bit of a, a nerd like that, at least in the finance world and those kind of things. So, you know, really, as you know, family offices started across the pond, as they would say, and, um, really was like a, a. You know, a concept that was effectively a business enterprise that the sole, the sole, uh, modus operandi, if you will, was to do what to really manage all the personal and business affairs for royalty, you know, the Rockefellers, the high net worth folks, right? Um, And so, you know, they just integrated every piece of, of finance. Right. And so you go, wow, that sounds pretty cool. And we see books like, you know, like the Rockefeller's this, or like the Vanderbilt's that, and all of those things. And I think those books are well meaning because what they're trying to do is, you know, A little bit of it is marketing and pomp and circumstance of secrets of the ultra wealthy, right? but the the reality is I think the real secret while uh There are things that they do that other people don't do the real secret is They have a plan And the plan is, it's not like in a silo, like an investment plan or an insurance plan or a protection plan. Um, it's a wealth management plan. Um, Or rather a strategy, right? Because a plan, I think in people's heads, it's kind of like you pull out the, uh, the plan to put the box of Legos together for your kid. And you know, it's static. It's like paint by numbers, right? And you know that that's just not how it works, you know, ultimately with, um, with finance, there's always multiple variables, right? So our definition of a family office with a, a little bit of a very intentional tweak is we operate. In a similar fashion to the traditional family office, which by the way, if a traditional family office was operating as a business enterprise, then anybody that would have any type of input on a financial decision, due diligence, management, execution, um, they would all be self contained inside that business entity. Well, I mean, Stoy, what the frick, man? No wonder it was like the rock of like, what kind of wealth do you have to have? And I'm not talking about like you have a bunch of real estate, obviously you got to have some liquid assets. So there's some argument there. Um, Is, you know, what, what's the number, you know, it's somewhere between 200 million to 400 million worth of liquid assets, like to really, for that to be a positive business, um, endeavor. Well, okay. So what happens to all the folks that are making a million dollars in revenue or 200 million dollars worth of revenue And so I just use that to dovetail my heart my soul my passion my wiring my dna as entrepreneurs Specifically founders man, like this country is just founded on folks Not folks that pull themselves up by their bootstraps and do it all by themselves. That's a bunch of garbage. Nobody does it by themselves. It's, it's people that see a need, see a problem and they're so obsessively committed to solving that problem, meeting that need, that they disrupt some way something's being done. My current favorite story is Melanie with Canva. Um, I mean, the gal was turned down over and over and over and over again. And now she's running a 200 billion company. Why? Because when she was 19, growing up in Australia, They were doing a high school yearbook and they had some financial constraints and some, um, constraints where they couldn't go out and hire a firm. So these high school kids, you know, they need a way to drag and drop and all of those things. And everybody said she was crazy. Well, how crazy is she now? Right? Like, I don't know what percentage, but I would suspect a huge, overwhelming percentage of, uh, the artwork, the, uh, creative visuals that we're seeing on. TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook, et cetera, especially from a business perspective. Or flyers we're seeing for events. They're coming from canva, right? And so bro, I just think that that is just It's just aphrodisiac man. It's it's just awesome, right? So Who helps those folks right because nobody goes from? Every you know, everybody is my coach would say when I was in high school Everybody's got to put their pants on the same way Everybody's got to tie their shoes. You know, we don't have those shoes like in back to the future. Michael J Fox drops his feet in and they just, you know, one day maybe we'll have those, but not yet. Right. So who serves those folks? And so I think the way that we came about this is I just got frustrated with business owners and entrepreneurs being so good at making money, but actually being more impressively capable of giving it away. Or, um, not knowing what they don't know. I like to say like founders and entrepreneurs are a living, walking paradigm of the Dunning Kruger effect. Um, where, you know, just like when they started a business, they didn't know what they didn't know, and they just keep getting deeper and deeper. And then all of a sudden, like the sandbar drops off and it's like, Oh, Whoa, I'm like shoulder. Shoulder deep or in over my head, like just running the business. How could they possibly manage personal finances and in all of those things? Our goal is to provide a similar thing like that traditional family office, but to leverage technology, coordinate all these subject matter experts by identifying, vetting, hiring, and managing them so that the business owner can spend 20 hours a year. or less on all of their decisions and the execution. Now, that means we're doing all the due diligence, all the running all the numbers. But the reality is, that's not what most business owners or founders are actually good at. Um, Yeah. So that, you know, that's what we do. We call it concierge and, and pure transparency. We tell prospects clients, look, we're not the cheapest in town. Um, that's not a brag. Like we don't want to race to the bottom. We want to provide a concierge service. And I'm, I'm really grateful. Recently we had a mortgage person. We've got a client that's relocating and a networking thing. She said, you know, people throw around these words and terms. You've known Andrew in our networking group for a little over two years. He says concierge and just candidly, I'm kind of like, yeah, right, whatever. But in my first interaction with him, like I've been blown away. My experience is like, you remember the first time when you were a kid and you went to a hotel and then maybe you won an award trip or you got to go with a wealthy friend of the Ritz and you're like, Oh wow, holy cow, like working with him and his clients is like a Ritz Carlton experience. And so, I don't know that it's like that every time, every moment for every client, because we're human and we make mistakes, right? Incredibly, incredibly just, um, rewarding that at least some of the time, hopefully more times than not, we're that's the standard where, you know, we're trying to hit is that type of an experience. So, and for founders, I mean, we feel like we're giving them the greatest gift they could have discretion of time back. Absolutely.

Stoy Hall, Host:

Yeah. And you use concierge. I use modern family office. They're both one in the same in terms of it's about the experience, right? Business owners wear too many damn hats. But truthfully, they're good at a lane or two. There is countless lanes that they have to think about, right? Whether that's, you know, your payroll, your books, your financials. Oh, by the way, personally, how are you investing? How's your life going? Life insurance, all those things that like a normal everyday person, let alone if they're a business owner or not, still can't grasp. Right. Sure. Money, the money game is so complex. That people get overwhelmed and just don't deal with it. They're like, I don't want to touch that shit. I'm done like help me or they stay where they're at. And I think that is one of the biggest misnomers or reasons for people not truly building up their wealth and creating generational wealth. Is that simple fact of it's so complex. It is overwhelming and if you get it wrong, you really get it wrong. Right. And then, you know, you translate back to what a traditional family office is and they're doing all those things now. Are they making a lot of money on it? Yeah, obviously. But the family says, Hey, I'm going to pay you because I don't want to miss anything and I don't want to do. Well, guess what? Just because they're wealthy doesn't mean the poor don't want to do it either. Right. Right. Now, is there a sweet spot? I do believe so. Obviously, business owners are one of the, I guess, best clientele for the situation because of the complexity. Uh, but it comes down to being able to take some of that situation off of them. So they can do what they're really good at. And then figure it all out on the back, the back end, right? I think one of the toughest things for me when i'm explaining what we do Is not necessarily the tangible items, you know your investment plan your insurance plan and all the stuff It's all of the other stuff behind that the conversations when they want to jump off a cliff and deal with things the the crazy Opportunity or the crazy thing that comes up from the irs when they send a notice and oh no payroll taxes or hey I need to vet this deal out And I'm sorry, but I need to know in 24 hours, right? Like, all of those other scenarios and conversations never come to light in traditional planning. Um, obviously, the traditional family office model that you're usually really private. Those things are what truly matter more to the clients than my investment plan, my insurance plan, you know, my goal plan, like those matter, but it's those intermediate things. How do you let, you know, active clients know anyone listening to us now or others in this industry know, like, yeah, the plan's cool and all, but it's that intangible part that that you just don't know of what, how do you talk through and let people know all of the other things that go on behind the.

Andrew Windham:

Well, you know, I think there's a couple of things, um, to consider there. Number one, just in, um, just like with, you know, whether you call them personality tests or, or all those things, you know, think this, think Colby, think all those different things that measure what, whatever, you know, I think you have to think about who are you and who can you serve best. So, I, I think just a general business fallacy is, um, is Zig Ziglar would say you can be a wondering generality or you can be a meaningful specific. Okay. And, and so if you're busy trying to help everybody, then you probably are not really exceptional at helping anybody. Right. Or if you're trying to make everybody help happy, Um, I'm not sure that's doable, but I'm virtually certain it'll make you extremely unhappy. Right. And so, you know, I, I think that's a component. So in speaking about that, you know, there's basically nine different types of personalities of high net worth folks. Um, I have a strong, strong, I mean, our, our focus is founders who are faith forward, purpose driven and legacy committed. Okay. So, um, one of the personalities would be, uh, you know, might be called a mogul or a power broker. Like they see money as power. Right. And so, um, and that's okay. That's just not who, for instance, I personally resonate with. Right. Um, there are some folks that see growing a business is a direct validation or reflection of who they are or, or, you know, something like that. Um, I used to think that was cool till I was playing golf with this guy. And, um, he had, I learned it at the second tee. He had just sold his business for 300 million. And so I just asked him, um, story. Hey, so I'm curious. If you had to do all over again, would you do it again? And if so, would you do it exactly the same or what you would do different? And actually what was crazy about that is you said, no, if I had to do over again, I would not do it again. And you're like, wait a second, 300 million, like less than 1%. Right. Um, get in the 10 million plus, like, are you smoking crack? What's wrong with you? Right. It ends.

Stoy Hall, Host:

We're back wearing different clothes had some technical issues, but we're going to continue on with part two here a little bit more Andrew, I know what's funny is we did this over a couple days and you you had said something about family offices Someone brought stuff up. I tweeted this morning about Uh diving into deep what a you know, modern family office is It's starting to blow up a little bit. Uh, which is funny because One of the advisors, uh, one of the planners on there said the reason people do not have family offices, they don't know that they can get to be part of one. They didn't know they could hire this service. They think it's left for, you know, the multimillionaire billionaire type. So I want to kick it off with, you know, this topic specifically right there. Why, in your opinion, is there not more of us? Uh, in this industry, in the family office side of things, offering services to those that really, truly need it, but aren't worth multi millions and billions of dollars.

Andrew Windham:

That's a big one to unpack. And I think there's a lot of reasons. Um, But to, uh, minimize the risk of going on a huge rift, um, that I'm really capable of. Um, I think the core things, if we keep it really common sense simple, that might not seem so common sense. Number one, the reality of a more modern family office. It is a disruptive entrepreneurial endeavor in and of itself, period. Okay. So, you know, I mentioned previously, like our core focus is founders. Okay. Why? Cause that's who I am. It's how I'm wired. It's what's in my DNA. And so on a, a, a basic service level. Um, I think we're most equipped to help those folks that are similar to us, not like us, not mere images of us, but, but very similar, right? We've had similar experiences. They're five years, 10 years behind us. So we kind of just have a wisdom that they don't have. And coachable, teachable, those things, or is it the person we all. You know, run into on the regular basis story that I know, I know, I know. Well, so then the question is, if you know, then why don't you do, and you don't know, like that, that's really without running down that rabbit trail. That's the problem that we have in higher education and just education in general, right? It's like, I go get a degree or I go check the box and take a test that says I know the knowledge And in our world man, like you go get a securities license. Let me just tell you like All that does is make you dangerous as hell to everybody that that that you know thinks just because you have that. Um I've got this love hate deal with cfps and all that kind of thing like I get that but there's a piece of the cfp That's actually outdated not even applicable and You We all know folks that are, they're book smart, but can they, can they apply? Okay. So to circle back, it's an entrepreneurial endeavor. Number two, I think it takes a very special type of individual or person, especially from a maturity perspective, an emotional intelligence perspective that can serve with their hand open, not their hand closed. Okay? And I run into this all the time with new clients. You probably do too. Hey, I have a guy or a gal. I would expect that you do. Right? But, you know, as you evolve in particular, and I'm going to stick to what I know, which is entrepreneurs and founders and business owners. You know, a lot of folks have heard of Gerber's E Myth, right? Well, so, you know, we started out kind of playing shop. We were working for the plumber. We were working all the late nights. We got a little bit jealous because he was at home at the pool in the nice house while I was out at one o'clock in the morning, making the emergency deal. You know what? And I only got paid 30 bucks an hour. Screw that. I know what he charged. I can make 50. And that's the myopic approach we have to running a business. Dunning Kruger effect shows back up. Oh, I got to have somebody run the books. I got to pay taxes. Somebody's got to do, somebody's got to actually prepare my taxes. Oh yeah, I forgot I might need a way to market or get somebody to show up. And so if I was going to use an analogy of the family office as you progress, Let's just go with sports because I love it, right? It's like first time you're playing football in the yard It's like hey dad's quarterback. You're playing your sibling, right? He's all time quarterback and you're guarding each other So so that's your first introduction to football then you watch it a little bit on saturdays At least if you're in the south, right? We're watching SEC college football. If you're in the Northeast pit, that kind of place, well, you actually have an NFL team that's worth cheering for. I mean, you got to remember, I got the Falcons, you know, so we're, we're late. So I get it. I feel it. Well, I guess I have to be a, a small Falcon stand just purely and simply because they're in Atlanta. Right. But I mean, you know, it's like, how the heck did we let Brady come back and beat us like that? But yeah, that was worth cheering

Stoy Hall, Host:

for. Oh,

Andrew Windham:

it does, brother. It's deep, right? So, um, but you know, then you grow up and maybe you play a little, little peewee football or, or you get exposed to it like that type of a deal. Right? But if, if we think about the essence of a family office, we watch people play on Sundays, Falcons or otherwise, right? And it only takes 1 to 3%. to be the difference in a win. Like the year the Falcons made it to the Super Bowl as an example, they won six games by less than the field goal. Okay. The following year they lost nine by less than the field goal. I mean, like, it was like we lost by one point, a field goal kick at the end of time. Like, it was just like I was watching the same movie over and over again that year, right? So, what we don't appreciate is, because we don't know, is that behind the scenes of those NFL organizations, and even now with college organizations, with NIL and all those things, There is staff out the wazoo that supports all the preparation all those things So bring it back to a business owner. They start out and they're making, you know enough to pay themselves Well, then they break through a bottleneck now. They've got a little extra. Maybe they go escort, right? Why because they'd like to eliminate the fika tax on on a portion Then they have a breakthrough and they're able to pay themselves, you know, six seven hundred thousand dollars a year well now the complexity You know, uh, gets bigger. We're not just like drawing up a, a route, you run down and out on your hand in the backyard now, you know, now we need, now we've got some complexity because the opponent gets bigger. Well, finances is the same way because you know, we're, we're in a war to, you know, realistically for our time or money or attention, right? And so I just don't, I think it's, I think it's. It's, it's new, like, we don't know what we don't know and we don't understand something. And so I would say, Stoy, that's incumbent, which is why our conversation today and more of these are important. Like we've got to communicate better. Like we have to, we have to be able to help somebody understand the essence. And I've spent two, three years like to get down to our team simplifies, automates, and coordinates every aspect, including hiring and coordinating your subject matter experts so that you can spend 20 hours or less on all your business and personal financial decisions. Like, bro, that's a, that's a slog. That's a slog fest, right? It's like how. Because you don't have 45 minutes to tell somebody what a family office is, you know, so I think there's that piece, but I also think that there's a piece that sometimes we don't know how good it could be. And so we have a hard time valuing it at a base level. How many business owners don't have a bookkeeper? Like a bunch. You know what I'm saying? And so, You hear business owners say, well, I can't afford one. Like you can't afford not to. Right. It's just where you, where are you spending your, where are you spending your time? So I don't know if that answers it a hundred percent, but you know, that's kind of the random musings of, of that piece. Um, and the other thing is, You know, when a cell phone came out and you had to have a pickup truck to carry that big old, you know, thing, well, time and innovation and all those things and, and. You know, you get to look at every situation is either a problem or an opportunity. I seek to look at COVID as an opportunity. It forced the financial services world to be willing to be more digital. I mean, before it was like 50 50 shot, you could do paperwork, applications, things digitally. Now, you know, financial institutions had to go, okay, well, we don't really like it, but we're not going to be relevant or have a business if we don't. So I think it's just a combination of those things. I personally think, um, the family office space, there's so much opportunity. And what I really hope we see more of is people like you and me story. They're like, hey, This is not a zero sum game. Like, you know, who do you serve? Well, who do you know? Well, I throw them over the fence to you, vice versa, so that we're staying in the area that we're good at. Like, I mean, I've had opportunities to work with professional athletes and we talked about offline, like, that's just not who I can relate to and serve. I'm, I'm, I'm doing a disservice if you will, if. If I say yes to them, right? No, and I

Stoy Hall, Host:

agree with everything you've said and laid out the analogies. You're not, you're not wrong. And saying it that way is very, very important for people to try to grasp it. That's the biggest issue we have and why it took you two to three years to even get that nailed down is because how do we do this? You know, in business, it's always about that elevator pitch. We can't do an elevator pitch for what we do. It is just not possible because of the complexities. And I'll go back to being an athlete as well is. There were things when you're in middle school and high school as a football player that you did, you worked out, you watched film and maybe learned some things. When you get into college, you are not only doing those things, you're studying, you're taking care of your body from a nutrition standpoint. It's all these other levels. Then you get to the pros, and they're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on their body every year. Both physically and mentally, and that just keeps adding, you know, layers and layers and layers and ultimately what they learned in when they're pros and if they would have instilled it when they were in middle school, high school, where would they be? That's the same thing you're talking about is you just don't know based upon your history or your experience. And I think what you had said is 1 of the big issues. I think the other issue is. Our industry is scared, scared, and the other ones want to silence it and not have it disrupt the industry. So those are two sides of that coin.

Andrew Windham:

Well, Winks all over that without truest. And, and, you know, um, I, you know, maybe this will sound like a man crush or a crush fest for wink, but you know, I was at one of his, one of his things in Nashville earlier this year and just mad respect for Jason, you know, he. Again, you know, I sound like a broken record on the Dunning Kruger, but he kind of set out to do something and he actually shared his heart. He's like, I woke up one morning scared as hell. He's like, Oh my gosh, like I have dug a hole and I'm down here in it. And, um, like, there's no good way to get out of it other than just to go all in and build. And, and, you know, he, he, He's creating massive disruption with custodians. I mean, we're starting to hear Schwab's calling people's clients and taking away from them, right? Um, Fidelity went to the deal like where for us, they were charging 10 bucks a month for every account just to have an, an account. Right. And so, um, but then you had the crowd strike situation happen. Guess who didn't go down? Altruist. Guess who did? Fidelity, Schwab, because they're, they're not innovating in those types of things. So, you know, I think it's all in how you see it. Um, do you see it as an opportunity? Do you see it as a problem? Um, you know, It's, uh, for lack of a better way to say it, it's kind of like when you join the church, you get all the privileges as well as the, as well as the responsibilities. And I, and I do think we have a very heavy responsibility as we innovate, as we lead and hopefully try to inspire more great minds of people to do stuff. Um, right. But I look at it as. You know, I don't love watching the market every day, but that's a necessary piece of the wealth management, right? Um, I don't know everything there is to know about charitable giving. Um, I know enough to go find the right who to do that exceptionally well. And what I love is, Every time we add a small layer of that complexity, like with the game of golf, we learn, Hey, approach, how do we line up? How do we, um, you know, how do we think about the shot? Not just walk up to it and whack the ball, right? What does that give for us? Like to me, that's the most fascinating, fun, interesting thing. And. You know, I've often told a couple of our clients, they're like, you know, I'm just, uh, I'm amazed. And I said, humbly, I just do these things, you know, a lot more times than you do, because that's just the reality, right? I mean, you buy a car once every three, four years, hopefully.'cause that's kind of a painful deal, right? For our clients collectively we're buying 10 to 12 a year. We're just better at it just because. With anything you do repeatedly, you build relationships, processes, those kinds of things. So let's, let's transition to like the,

Stoy Hall, Host:

the value both from a, uh, a family office perspective, but also from a client perspective, um, a lot of people always say you have to have a firm. That's 200, 400 million in family office to make profitable. We had talked about that earlier, a lot of that, because you're doing everything in house. When you, you said COVID was great for our industry. I think it was one of the best things ever. Because it allowed us to go digital and allowed us to go. Virtual and hand things out and spread it across the board, which has allowed us to be innovative, which has allowed us to get better tech, which has. Ultimately reduced the cost of having the ability to, to get to others or have all those services in house. Right? Sure. The way we're built is there's a lot of things we take care of in house. A lot of what we do is we go hire those professional or our clients. Like, I'm going out there talking to attorneys, lenders, car dealers, et cetera, going out there on their behalf and interviewing and figuring it out and figuring out a plan. And What that allows us to do is not to have all of that staff in house to take care of it. We can go find the best deal, right? Which now means we're deal makers, ultimately. Which is good, and the client doesn't have to deal with it. At the day, the client is paying us to get the best deal for them. Whatever that deal may be, right? Insurance through the board. That part of it allows us to bring in the value both for us and the client. We don't have to charge 250, 000 a year anymore because we have 200, 000 of salary for them. And that's, what's bringing it back down to the modern age and taking it from the multimillion billionaires. down. And that's really what's going on and how it works. It's just there's a huge trust level within.

Andrew Windham:

Yeah. You know, the other thing about that, though, also, as you talk about that story is, you know, if I think the older I get, the more I appreciate it's not what you know it to, you know, because there's really only three ways to transfer knowledge, right? You can read about it. You can have somebody, um, mentor you, or you can do it yourself. The problem is the do it yourself or read about it. There's also a learning curve of the application is you read and learn about it, right? When you've got somebody that does that really well. And I think this is one of the issues that business owners, similar to the bookkeeper thing, have to get their head around, and that is, you know, the tendency is. You know, I watched my father do this. He tried to build a surgery center. And so he'd go to the banker, he'd go to the real estate attorney, go to the real estate and, and he would pitch the idea and they would all give him advice. And then he'd go back and decide what he wanted to do, but because he doesn't know what he doesn't know in those things. And frankly. The subject matter experts have a limitation to the breadth of what they know as well, but collectively with them, which I think is what's so special about a family office wealth team approach is you benefit from that professional oversight in integrity and accountability because the real estate agent's not going to let the mortgage person take advantage of you and hide fees in the origination. Why? Because they deal with multiple mortgage folks. So they, they don't work in the mortgage world, but they know what a going rate is just by proximity. Right? I mean, like recently I had a CPA that referred over. He's like, Hey, got a client. I want you to do a SEP with, I'm like, okay, well, he doesn't want to have to fund, uh, you know, the employees. So that's why he doesn't want to do a 401k. Okay. Well, a SEP doesn't get him out of that. Right. And. The CPA is not making the referral, like he's not trying to make a mistake. It's like, it's just, he doesn't know what he doesn't know the power and the synergy of that is so important. And you know, that's where small wins make it worth spades for what we get paid the quarterback, because. Said simply, it's, it's the analogy we've all heard where the guy goes into the factory, it's not working, he's in there 15 minutes, comes out, hands him 100, 100, 000 invoice, the owner says, whoa, like, what the heck? You were only in there 15 minutes. I need an itemized bill. So he, you know, five bucks for the bolt, the rest of it to know which bolt to replace and, and, uh, where, where to screw. I think that's the one thing that technology and, um, innovation that, that people have to begin to warm up, up is when you get crucible moments like COVID. People tend to revert to what their core is to survive, which are their unique capabilities, right? And so, you know, when you hear somebody speaking or an expert in an area, you're not paying for the individual service. You're paying for the education, the reps, the knowledge, experience. I mean, you're not paying, uh, Jaden up it. at Washington because he's going to, like, he spent years throwing, crafting, lifting, taking care of his body, working on his mind, working on his leadership. Like those things take time. That's why people pay what they pay for Rolex. So I think you have to decide, do you, are you willing to pay or, uh, what it requires to have a standard? Of excellence and there are different levels, of course right, um Yeah, but the other piece about a family office I think that's easy to miss is The cost of it can be scaled up and down based off of what you need. And that's what's so, that's what's so beautiful. I mean, the place I struggle is our market's not that entrepreneur doing a million dollars in revenue that's a services. But brother, there's a need there, right? It's just, that's not where my heart is. And, and all, I mean, I think there's so much room for growth and it's, it's not a zero sum game where there's only X number of pieces of the pie. So I don't want you to get. Clients because then I won't be like, it's just not that at all. It's so much bigger than that. It's way bigger than that It

Stoy Hall, Host:

goes way Let's hit upon that a little bit because I want to talk about the differences in our services. Everyone's like, well, you guys do the same damn thing. We don't. Right. So talk us through, and I want to call them minimums or talk us through your, your ideal clientele and what, you know, your average, obviously we all have ranges in terms of what charge them, but talk through a little bit of that, of a normal person that comes to you that is in your pipeline, exactly what you wanted, kind of what you would charge. And then I'll, I'll do the same.

Andrew Windham:

Yeah. So we work with founders only. That's it. You walk in, you're Bill Gates, that's awesome. We're not a quit, like, well, I guess technically he would be a founder. Um, but, but in fairness, that's also outside the realm of where we play in terms of, of, of capability. And Bill's got his own family office, of course. We're, um, generally working with business owners that are doing 5 million to 200 million in revenue in between. Um, And from a wealth perspective that can run a full spectrum, whether they're running retail, obviously, or whether they're running professional services, right? But generally, when you get somebody up around 5 million in business revenue, um, retail, you know, 10, 12%, they're doing 500, 600, 000, but there's a lot of moving parts and complexity on the business side. So there's really, really high value for that. Obviously, you know, you're in that top tax bracket around 500, 000 of, of, uh, gross. You know, depending on what state you live in, you're paying somewhere between 30 and 40 plus percent in taxes. So, you know, when we come on board, we're effectively hired as a consultant to the business, which means they're not paying us net what our cost is. We end up being a fractional employee. So effectively, um, if we charge you five, five K a month, 60 K a year, There's no workers comp. There's no all those things. So it's like hiring a fractional executive that kind of is the, the overlay. Um, and I think often people are like, well, isn't that what a fractional CFO is for? Not really because the somebody who's a great fractional CFO still doesn't have the capability to coordinate on the personal side. So. A lot of times we're a huge wingman to that fractional CFO, if you will. So, so you, you've got that component that's there, but you could also have somebody doing 5 million in revenue in personal, in professional service or something like that. And they could be doing 4 million in revenue. Here's what I know though. When a business owner, given all that he has on his plate, is they begin to get over half a million dollars, the complexity of taxes and the complexity of lanes that they have gets greater. And there is no greater joy story than I get getting a hold of a business owner. Um, and you could put like a research and development tax credit that they just don't even know is there. And all of a sudden they're not making 500, 000, they're making six 50. Right. So, you know, we're working with founders, typically faith forward, purpose driven legacy committed, meaning it's more than just the money. I routinely see LinkedIn and otherwise where folks are talking about, you know, slats, crats, you know, And all of that's all of those and all of that's right. Um, and, and the reality is That solves the problem of the money transfer. It does not solve the problem of the wealth transfer sustainably. And so it's the skills, the values, the experiences, those things must be foundationally there. And when they're not, that's why we see less than 3 percent of wealth. Transferred past G3. So that's where my heart, like, that's the, that's the part that like, keeps me like really inspired and motivated because it's, I try to figure out that for myself and teach my boys that then I get to, I get to apply that also with, um, with our clients. And, you know, for example, one of the things we're looking to do story is to start doing a annual family meeting for all of our clients, right? Um, we've met transparently, we've never done one. That's something we're working on in 2025, where we just progressively try to grow the value in the, the impact. You know, uh, of that offering. It would be the

Stoy Hall, Host:

entire family for everyone listening. He doesn't just mean like. Mom and dad, he's talking about the entire chain, right? Yes. Grandkids. If they're at that level, the entire family, not just his annual meetings, I would assume you're doing meetings and meeting with them always to the entire generation.

Andrew Windham:

Very good. And, and thanks for that clarification. So I would call it more like a family might think of it like a family retreat. There you go. With a focus. And, um, two great books for folks listening. Um, I love Andrew Lowell's, um, uh, book called riveted. It talks about, um, 40 something values. And so that's a, that's a thing where, you know, my value is not the same core values as my kids, but they're usually close. So it's a function of helping them understand, you know, why we are what we are, how, how they can be who they are, but it's not exclusive, mutually exclusive one another, you know, they're, they're. A progression or derivation and a lot of it's just good people skills. You know what I mean? So that's who, that's who we want and, and, um, love to serve. But just as importantly, we want and love to get people who don't fit in that to somebody just like you, um, which is really how we started this conversation that led to the podcast. Right?

Stoy Hall, Host:

Yeah, you're right. Because ours are drastically different and drastically the same at the same point, right? You're looking for, you know, five to 200. We really start at, um, I think your gross income for your business is in the 500, 600 range on up, um, to about 5 million. That's where our sweet spot is. Again, we work with minority and female business owners almost exclusively because we love the ones that are, they care more about people, money, right. First and foremost. They're wanting to leave some type of legacy, but also they're building right. They're in this really big growth build mode. They just don't know. They just don't know what they don't know. And ultimately that's where our sweet spot lies, which is, you know, different than yours, but we're doing very similar services and I run across all different sorts of people all the time. And it's like, they don't fit, you know, exactly what we want to do. And that's okay. Right. Right. And so we'll scale it up and down, but typically we have an intro of like 1500 a month for various limited services through 9, 000 plus, depending on your complexity, and I get asked this question all the time of like, what the hell does that mean? It's like, sometimes we get in and I'll do this. I'll set it up as an agreement of first six months. We'll run at a number and then we're going to figure it out. Cause we got to grow together. In the next six months, probably a different number and the next 12 is probably different because there's these complexities that take time. I think a lot of what we do takes time and people don't understand that either. This isn't you hire us. And then 30 days later, everything's perfect. You know, fishing and everything like some of these things take time. Some of them come up at a different timeframe taxes, for example. Yeah, we can handle them now, but you also don't file them for later or tax codes change or, you know, the cycle of business changes. And so I try to reiterate to everyone, this is a journey we're in this thing together, you know, whether you call it your fractional employee or where your fractional family to like, that's how close we need to be with things in order to either get ahead. Or just as we go,

Andrew Windham:

yeah, you know, in, in, in really to that, to speak to that is we want to engage somebody who we don't feel like is honestly committed to a 1 year, a 1 year foundational scenario. And, but I would also say with that story, at least me personally, I feel a really high level of burden obligation. to, to deliver, to deliver a wow experience, you know, if you will, you know, it's interesting, there are nine, um, categories that, um, have been identified as ultra high net worth or high net worth folks, family stewards, um, independence. Phobics, uh, which is a really weird word. I, I don't want to be a phobic, but anyway, um, and that doesn't mean you have phobias by the way. Um, you know, there's, there's moguls, there's accumulators, there's gamblers, there's innovators, um, there's anonymous, meaning folks that, that want to be completely off the grid as much as possible. A lot of those tend to be, you know, way up in the, in the wealth spectrum for obvious reasons. But you know, the ones that I really, really relate to are the family stewards, the people who, like you said, Um, the finances are a function to care and love and to grow the people and the causes or the people inside the causes that we care about, you know, you know, so deeply. Um, and what I love most about that group and I sense is similar to you would love your thoughts is I love their stewardship and desire to mentor and lead and to grow personally, but also for their kids and for other people versus nothing wrong with the mogul or the VIP who needs the quarter million dollar car to validate. But that's just not how I'm wired. I love being in the stickiness, the richness of relationship.

Stoy Hall, Host:

Yeah, a

Andrew Windham:

hundred

Stoy Hall, Host:

percent. Absolutely. A hundred percent in the good and bad with that. Like the stickiness is what you're talking about. Yeah, sometimes it, things pop up, things happen, right? For example, one of my clients right now had to fly to Seattle with her mom's not doing well and fell on her face and had to go to the emergency room and being able to support that and be in it with it and feel that obviously nowhere near feeling the pain and the anguish she's going through. Sure. Feeling and putting some of that on our own shoulders to then make sure, Hey, the business is still operational and doing everything on the back end. To make sure that my client can focus on her mother, right? It doesn't have to focus on those. And that type of relationship one doesn't usually happen overnight. And two is so deeply rooted in, you know, or beliefs and values and wanting to give back that if someone comes to me and is like, Hey, I just want to take this million and make it a hundred million by next year, like that, those things don't align with, right. Good luck. Have fun doing that. But it's that core just down, right. It's real, real people having real conversations always. Uh, those types of people that exactly who I want to work with.

Andrew Windham:

Yeah. You know, I got a text this morning. I want to share this. So I've got a client that, um, is relocating to Kansas. Um, he owns a business, but she's got an executive position and he's restructured his business. Thanks to COVID where he can do it, you know, almost anywhere. Right. And so, um, inside 30 days where we've helped them locate a house, finance it, close it, which is, That's tough to do, right? And so, um, we're in the closing week of that, but we had to decide where we were going to take the funds for the down payment on the new house while there's, you know, the 60 to 75 day lag of selling their existing house and proceeds. And, um, you know, she called with a problem of, well, I can only move 100, 000 per day per transaction. Um, and I said, well, we could wire, you know, 20, 40 bucks total for the wire. Oh, that's awesome. And then she says, you know, there was a point in time, not so long ago that this type of transaction would be unheard of. Or not even fathomable for we'll call them the smiths Thank you. And and frankly, that's the best paycheck I could get right like that's somebody who's winning at life That it's not because of me, but we've been able to support that being You know more true and if there's any piece that I could say for somebody who might be listening to this Um, you know, you, me, uh, we have the ability to give the most incredible gift back to these business owners and these entrepreneurs. That's time, discretion of time where you can get back, you know, because of multiple layers of efficiency, like you're talking about. Um, you can take somebody who Was making 500, but now they're making, they're making six, they're getting to keep 600, right? It's, it's not what we make, what we get to keep that matters. True. So you go, okay, well, that's a hundred thousand dollars extra. But if you do that a couple of times, and if you leverage it smart in your business, now all of a sudden. You're buying your time back. We think about buying our time back from a bookkeeper or subject matter expert, but what if we just flat buy our own time back because of the lifestyle and the reserve that we have to do that so that we can get to our last half, best half? Or last chapter, best chapter, um, quicker, faster. Um, I think if we had more people moving to that, all this, you know, upheaval and political discourse that is just so, uh, toxic and nonproductive, I think we'd, we'd be a better place, uh, to, to live in, in community, to live in, you know, at least that's my goal.

Stoy Hall, Host:

People will be more joyful. They

Andrew Windham:

would

Stoy Hall, Host:

just be happy. It really comes back to that and that's the time right and the time for all the little things, right? So, I mean they've got bill pay they've got books. They've got hr. They've got marketing You've got your personal stuff of getting your kids to practice and travel and hey, how do we feed ourselves? Oh, I gotta cook. Uh, oh, I need to buy this car. Oh an accident happened Like there are so many things that eat up your time Buying it back and having someone to your right side that is there for hey this happened and it can be dealt with That value when I talk to my clients are like this is what we want the most like this is what? Brings us more values the fact that I needed this by this day. I didn't even know how to do it. And you got it to me in five minutes. I'm like, how did you even know? It's like, because I've done the reps, the time, right. I've done all of that to cut down your time ultimately. And that value, uh, when my clients talk about, they're like, it's far not there, there is too much return there that I don't even know what to tell you. And that, those conversations are what make me feel good and what every day is to make sure we can.

Andrew Windham:

Well, I mean, it's a game for us. That competitive gene for me is okay. So we buy the car the first time. Okay. It took us, uh, it took the client 45 minutes. It took us three hours. Okay. Next time, how can we make it 30 minutes for the client and four hours for us? Right. But you know, the other thing I'd be remiss to say is one of the things that I experienced, I'm, I'm curious if you have a similar. Um, set of experiences as well is I often hear clients prospects say, you know, I love what you do. I'm not sure if I'm big enough that I deserve it yet. And here's the key word, deserve it. Right. And recently this came out because I was having a conversation with my wife about, you know, we were going back to hire somebody to clean the house. And so I asked her to fill out what we call an impact filter because I've hired somebody before and it got to be more of a frustration with her not being happy. And if mama ain't happy, nobody's happy. Right. Right. So I said, I just want to be really clear that whoever I'm hiring to do this for us, like, it makes you happy because that's the reason I'm doing it. Right. And one of the things that she shared in an email story was, I don't want to lose my value of. Washing clothes, whatever. And we actually sat down, um, cause we spend a lot of Friday mornings having coffee cause she doesn't work on Fridays and the boys are gone. So we, we spend some of that time together, which has been awesome for deep conversations. But I said, you know, one of the things that I don't know if you saw this, but I read it, I don't want to read into it, but I want to make sure you appreciate that your value to me in our relationship is not. It's not you cooking a meal. It's not you washing clothes. It's not you cleaning the house. Those are things that need to be done, but I'm perfectly willing to pay somebody to do it so that we can have more conversation time like this. Um, and we both cried a little bit, right? But that's what I'm talking about. The stickiness and the richness of, of life. Um, so that we major in the majors, we don't major in, in, in the minors. And so sometimes, you know, we have a lot of mental work that, that we get to. Facilitate, lead, observe, and bro, there's nothing better than cheering somebody on from the sidelines. It's like, yeah, they killed it. You know what I'm saying?

Stoy Hall, Host:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, between our conversation, this is amazing. I want to stop it kind of right around here. Because I want the feedback and the comments for us to do and guide our next conversation. Sure. Cause I want to keep going deeper and deeper with you. If there's more family offices out there like us that want to jump on, we just need to keep putting this out here and be louder and louder and louder because ultimately people know and they need to know what's out there, but as we end every episode of what is one thing that you people, you want everyone to take from this conversation to help them in that next step forward, whether that's step forward and hiring us. We're at least a step forward in moving on their welfare.

Andrew Windham:

You know, I would say we, we're, uh, putting the finishing touches right now on basically a survey that somebody can take. I think the number one thing in every problem is we have to self identify that we have an issue or something that we want to address. And so rather than trying to explain or convince or cajole somebody into they could use a family office, I think to a degree it's good for them to discover that maybe they, they want to explore one, meaning they're, they're coming at it from a curiosity perspective versus a, for lack of a better word, a little bit of a, uh, psychological, emotional manipulation piece. And so, um, we've, we've got a 25 question. Takes less than five minutes literally to answer that just allows you to do a quick eval of like Team, um, leadership, synergy, you know, those types of basic things just so that we can facilitate more dialogue because I believe when there's more demand, there will be more supply like me and you show up when more supply shows up and we have conversations like this more and more where it's not taboo or whatever. Um, then I think everybody wins, wins that way. Think of it like a bunch of college kids with nothing but time on their hands and they're trying to figure out what life is. I mean, that's, that's what we're doing here. We're doing life together and I love that.

Stoy Hall, Host:

Absolutely. Well, I appreciate you, your time and what you do and look, I look forward to the next time we get together. It'll be awesome. Thanks man. Affiliated

Black Mammoth:

third parties or publications are in no way of the advisors, future performance, or any individual client's investment success. No award ranking or recognition should be construed as a current or past endorsement of black mammoth. Information regarding specific awards, rankings, or recognitions is available on the Black Mammoth website, www.black mammoth.com. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. Investment strategies such as asset allocation, diversification, or rebalancing do not assure or guarantee better performance and cannot eliminate the risk of investment losses. There are no guarantees that a portfolio employing these or any other strategy will outperform a portfolio that does not engage in such strategies. This broadcast should not be construed by any client or prospective client as a solicitation to affect or attempt to affect transactions and securities or the rendering of personalized investment advice due to various factors including changing market conditions. The information discussed in this broadcast may no longer be reflective of current positions or recommendations. While information presented is believed to be factual and up to date, Black Mammoth do not guarantee its accuracy, and it should not be regarded as a complete analysis of the subjects discussed. The tax and estate planning information discussed is general in nature, and is provided for informational purposes only, and should not be construed as legal or tax advice. Listeners should consult an attorney or tax professional regarding their specific legal or tax situation. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

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Stoy Hall

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Andrew Windham

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