Lead Different
Redefine Mental Toughness
“We may be born into a great family situation or a difficult family situation that forces or conditions you to be tough, but we aren’t born that way. Toughness comes from how you handle your experiences, what you learn from them, and how you’re guided through them by others in your life.”
Mike Krzyzewski (Jay Bilas, Toughness: Developing True Strength On and Off the Court)
“Mental toughness” is a term frequently used by coaches and players alike, but is often misunderstood as a concept. Russ sits down with Stone Eleazer and 2x NCAA Wrestling Champion and USA Wrestling Gold Certified Coach Braumon Creighton to redefine what it means to be mentally tough, and discuss the true measure of a leader. Because sports often involve emotional turmoil, mental toughness develops in us the ability to maintain emotional self-control and to manage the anxiety that comes with leading and growing.
Episode References:
“We may be born into a great family situation or a difficult family situation that forces or conditions you to be tough, but we aren’t born that way. Toughness comes from how you handle your experiences, what you learn from them, and how you’re guided through them by others in your life.”
Mike Krzyzewski (Jay Bilas, Toughness: Developing True Strength On and Off the Court)
“Mental toughness” is a term frequently used by coaches and players alike, but is often misunderstood as a concept. Russ sits down with Stone Eleazer and 2x NCAA Wrestling Champion and USA Wrestling Gold Certified Coach Braumon Creighton to redefine what it means to be mentally tough, and discuss the true measure of a leader. Because sports often involve emotional turmoil, mental toughness develops in us the ability to maintain emotional self-control and to manage the anxiety that comes with leading and growing.
Episode References:
Eh, not what your country can do for you and what you can do for your country. One word, I have a dream that one day this nation will, has the returns of, well,
Speaker 2:I was like, I, I what I did is I own Jay Bell[inaudible] book. Jay Bellis wrote a book on mental toughness. I've read a little excerpt from his book. So yeah, and his position is that, um, most players don't, most coaches use it as a buzz word. Most players use it as a bud war buzz word. And most people don't misunderstand it. Now I'm not saying I agree with Jay Wells Cause Jay, listen, I don't, yeah, I don't agree with his basketball tactics. So, but I think he's got a perspective that says, uh, he calls it, you know, guys thumping their chest. Um, guys, um, you know, trying to intimidate their opponent, et Cetera, et Cetera, is not mental toughness. Now. And, and I'll, I will just, I'm just going to ask you this. Um, so when I was a kid, uh, in a, in and out, oh, I forgot to say, uh, this is Russ. You'll on lead different with, uh, stony lasers joining us. But our primary guest is a Brahman Creighton. Right. I said that, right. Yup. Uh, and, uh, the big thing you need to know about Ramen, there's a lot more, uh, cause he's coaching and teaching. Uh, but he's a two time NCAA wrestling champion. Uh, and this is an anniversary. He says it's a long time ago. It's not a long time ago as George Meichin. That's a long time ago. Basketball Player, George. Mike is a long time ago, but not 20 years ago is not long ago. That, that, that encompasses Michael Jordan and a bunch of people. Yeah. I mean that's 1999. Yeah, the 28th. That's nuts. Nothing. I was, uh, I was, I was wa I watched the 1972 Olympics on television and watched, um, uh, uh, the, uh, the u s team lose their first basketball, but against the Russians in the 72 Olympics and cried as a little kid. Uh, because I was like, I can't believe this is happening to us. Uh, but, uh, so yeah, I, it, you've got a lot to say on, on the, on many topics. And today we're, we were going to encompass Brahman and stone's thoughts about leadership leading different. And then I just want to lay the framework out there for those listening and as well as for a Brahman and for stone that, um, we're trying to talk to leaders. They both are in silicon valley, working in technology companies to teachers, to coaches, to people that are entrepreneurs doing their own startups to, uh, moms at home or dad's at home or wherever they are. Because, uh, my view, we did a podcast sometime ago about how important sports is for every single person that it teaches, whether you're going to be great at it or not. It teaches teamwork, it teaches inclusion. Uh, it teaches, uh, a sense of sacrifice for others and not promoting yourself. And so we're trying to get a lot of different views on leadership because there, you know, I read a lot of business books and they have, I think almost they, they will, business writers would like this, but it's almost monolithic. It's like there's, there's, there's this one holistic view of leadership and I think sports does a better job of almost anything maybe in the military of showing you, there's a whole lot of ways to lead and a whole lot of ways to motivate. And the way I know you, a is from you, uh, coaching stone son who, uh, I won't mention his name so he doesn't feel bad, but I remember him coming out to one of our programs called east soccer and it was an inclusive program. He was about eight years old and he cried. Uh, cause he was so anxious about, you know, being involved and to watch him win a CCS championship because of your coaching. That was a transformation of a human being to me. And, and accidentally,
Speaker 3:well I can't take all the credit for that will, did all the work and I listened to his name, but that's all right.
Speaker 2:That's okay. It doesn't matter. I[inaudible] guy. He's a special guy. Well, you know, my experience with coaching is, and you can tell me, um, my experience with coaching, cause I played basketball in high school and I was pretty selfish kid, meaning selfish player, meaning I wanted to be the star and I wanted to shoot all the time. My coach had a philosophy that you're supposed to pass all the time. And so he and I were good buddies and had a good time, but he sat me on the bench a lot because I'd get in the game and it took me about two minutes to start, you know, putting on my show. And uh, he calls me one of his best team players ever. But that's how I was. But he shaped me and changed my mind about that. And as an adult I think more like he thought than I did as a kid. So I think coach, I mean my view on coaches is you do transform lives, but I know you want to give the credit cause you are all good coaches give credit to the player. But I think coaching is more important than people think today. But maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 3:Well I tell you with will, um, it's so funny cause the first time he had thought about being a CCS champion was when I said, hey dude, you're going to win the CCS. Oh really? And I remember stone calling me either later that day or the next day and being like, Hey, I'm, I don't want to get his hopes up. Um, let's, you know, let's temper expectations. Yeah. I don't remember exactly what you said. It started with something and I basically told them, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't know what I see and just let me do my thing and uh, trust the process. Wow. And so, and we'll, we, I mean, we'll probably work on the same set of skills from the very first day to the last day. He just happened to be an extraordinarily good athlete. He was, and he would have done. And the things you're talking about as an eight year old, he still had in him at the very end, which is why I think he didn't place at the state term. And he could have taken it to an even higher level. He's a very talented dude. Um, it's emotional, you know, and it was, it was emotional getting him to the top of that CCS poet podium. Um, it was taxing physically. It was taxing emotionally and he had never gone to that sort of deep water. Right. Um, but he did it and I think after CCSC was, he was done. Yeah. Um, but that was such a pinnacle experience for him. Yeah. That we really, he really got everything he needed to get out of rustling from, from that year. And from that journey and that experience, and then having a culminate and winning a championship and the way he did. So it was, it was pretty special nights. Still special.
Speaker 2:I have the footage of that. That was so special. Hearing you talk. Uh, you know, it, it reminds me one of why I love sports, all Sports, why I love coaching. I think as I've gotten older, I watch sports as much for coaching as I do for playing[inaudible]. It's just fascinating for me to watch. Like last night I was in pain because Michigan lost to Texas Tech in March madness and it was brutal. And I love Michigan. I love the players, but it, you know, they did what I did when I was 1819 years old. They got, they got in a bit of a bind against test six tech and it wasn't like their talent evaporated, but I saw something emotional happened to them in the middle of nothing that they had traditionally been doing was working right in the first half. And I bet I bet you know a lot about that kind of lock up that happens when you're young. And so I want to take you back a little bit if you don't mind. Two winning winning national championships. Here's why that matters to me. Because you know, I wanted to play for North Carolina and basketball and I was a kid and I was like, man, I'm going to play, I'm going to do it. And then it just kind of landed on me. Oh No, you're not. Cause you can look at guys and you go, they're just better. But some of what I saw was they weren't just better, physically, faster, taller, they were stronger. But at the ton in my life, I didn't know that they were stronger inside. And I played against some kids who had grown up a lot tougher, a lot harder than I had. And, and they just didn't flinch. Like when a full court press was on, they didn't, that was not the worst thing they'd seen in life for me. I was really spoiled. This is the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. You, where'd you grow up? Did you grow up
Speaker 3:Brassica? I grew up in Nebraska in Omaha and uh, you know, our family's from Iowa and so I was born in Waterloo, Iowa, which I always call the birthplace of wrestling. Uh, Dan Gable is from Iowa gainful. Dan Gable wrestled for Waterloo west high school and my father wrestled for Waterloo east high school. You are kidding. Yes. And uh, same, same error. I think my father was either two years younger or two years older than Gabriel, but, um, uh, and east was the all black high school.[inaudible] and West was the all white high school. And so it was super racially charged here. And there was some unbelievable freak athletes at my father's high school. And, um, she's just got, he had some amazing stories about, uh, about gable and about that time. And I asked Your Dad's name, Leon Leon cray. He's passed now. He passed a couple of years ago. Um, and, uh, yeah, just, he's telling me about pickup wrestling matches in the neighborhood and everybody rustled the coach at, uh, who, the former coach at Wartburg University, which is division three. His name is Jim Miller. He's a hall of fame. Super, super duper coach. Um, they were, uh, colleagues or you know, teammates and friends at the time. So this is some unbelievable blue collar wrestling stories from that time. So I was born there in 76 we moved to Omaha Hall when I was very little and so high school and college in Omaha and went to college at university, Nebraska, Omaha. And then I came out here to coach for San Francisco state in 2002.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well here, here's the interesting sort of, uh, uh, sort of, uh, it's not as segway, but it's a, a, a, our lives kind of come together and my dad, um, tremendous baseball player, tremendous basketball player, scholarship, uh, to a university in the South Lane University. Uh, during a time when, you know, African Americans weren't going to be allowed to go to school with anybody but African Americans and certain universities and, um, and they couldn't play in the baseball league. So he played in Negro Baseball League. Um, and, and, and as soon as he was, as he was, uh, um, selected to start at second base, um, for, at that time it was going to be the New Orleans Eagles, which, you know, I think they were one of the last Negro Baseball League teams to kind of get going and didn't get very far after the, the good thing of the, the, the major league baseball accepting African-Americans. But he had got drafted by the military and so he went in the military and never played again. And, and um, and we, he specimen a lot of time in front of the television watching baseball, which I learned to despise cause I was so bored. Right. But my dad, I didn't understand. I didn't understand my dad like what you're talking about, the stories I didn't understand. My Dad was watching gas, he played with, you know, B in Major League baseball and he didn't close out that part of his life. The reason I bring it up is one, Dan Gable is arguably for those who are listening. Um, there's John Wooden and there's Dan Gable I think when it comes to college coaching, uh, and I'm not sure which one is it. It depends on which side of the aisle you're on. Who's the best of all time as far as college coaches, I mean, cause you have ski is great, but I don't think you, John, wouldn't I like to jet ski a lot at Duke and Dan Gable, man, I forgot what Olympics was portrayal street at 72 72. Okay. Oh Man, he, the sports illustrated would write about that guy. And I wasn't a big, I could rip in Michigan. Wrestling was big. Um, but I didn't know a lot about it. I could tell a story about it, but it wouldn't be probably good for podcast about wrestlers teaching me a lesson.
Speaker 3:I got a little for lessons. Yeah. I got a little mouthy and they were friends of mine though. And they, especially their basketball players and that's what they did. They, that they, I, I can't get into the details, but they took me behind the curtain of the, of the stage and taught me a lesson. And it wasn't, it wasn't bullying, it was educational. And I never, again, they didn't call it bullying and they still don't, those guys still don't. Right. But when I hear you talking about your dad and I hear you talking about Dan Gable, I think a lot of people aren't sure, Stan,
Speaker 2:that, um, the, uh, the, the history that's oftentimes buying champions. That's what I wanted to say. Oh yes. And, and there's a history behind you becoming a champion and the stories your dad told you, the things you saw in her,
Speaker 3:it definitely doesn't happen by accident. I would challenge the whole gable a m wouldn't thing I think heal Sanderson is, is, is right there now with gable. Uh, he's doing something special. Um, we could talk about why that is and the area in recruiting and how wrestling is nowadays. But uh, yeah, there, there's a lot of people that can teach well I think. Yeah, I do tell them here's what they can't as well,
Speaker 2:but tell it to me. Okay. So tell me how, I have so many questions rolling through in mind and stone. You can jump in here, but you just got me going. I mean I'm like, my mind is just on fire right now. You said there, there's a lot of guys doing special things right now in this heel. Sanderson who I don't know much about is doing some special things for now, but what separates coaches? Like just what is that d? Cause it seems like you can get, the s two guys can have the same resources and even one guy can have a little bit less, but the outcomes are so drastically different.
Speaker 3:Well, and this is all just opinion, right? And I've seen a lot, I've seen a lot of coaching, I've done a lot of coaching. Um, I think it's different on every level. I think a college coaches are, have much easier job than high school coaches. Okay. It's a lot of recruiting at the college level, especially. You talk about the division one level, um, and those top 10 big 10 type teams. Um, they're getting some unbelievable athletes. These kids were born on the mat. They Russell year-round. They'd been on world teams. They've been to, they've had, I mean some of these kids have more international wrestling by the time they get to college. Then you know, some of the bigger names you've seen in the past, you know, um, so when you're picking and choosing and then you get them there and you just get to train them. I think kill Sanderson has done something, uh, really unique and where he's taken a lot of the fight and the, and they still fight, don't get me wrong, but he's taken the anxiety and the pressure out of it. And he, one of my favorite sayings that he says is, Hey, just play the sport. Just play the sport. And almost like we were playing basketball, you know, basketball is a game. Wrestling is about, yes, wrestling is a match. Yes. And wrestling is a fight. So that makes it a lot more, uh, emotional, uh, and a lot more at risk. Um, I talk about this in my classes all the time. They actually did a study and they took a junior high to a senior age children and they said, what are the, what's the most anxiety producing thing you can do in school? And it was 12 activities. And number one was a band. Solos was the number one thing really. And they had test taking and everything else on there, band solos was number one. Number two was wrestling, no joke. And the wrestling was because there was this physical element to it where you could get hurt, right? You get embarrassed like, like in a band solo, but you also get hurt. Yes. So, uh, that's why wrestling is very anxiety producing. I think to me, just to um, kind of jump ahead to the concept of mental toughness. Yeah, let's do it. It's a misused word. I think that it really, it means being able to whip anxiety. If I can whip my own anxiety, that flocks up my body so I cannot execute. So I cannot be free to do the moves that I practiced to do. The skills that I practice, it's about whipping that anxiety and being able to whip it on demand. Right. So incredible mental toughness is like consistency.
Speaker 4:I remember one of the things you used to teach to our kids, Brahman was used to say, I don't care if you got taken down 22 times in a row. Oh the 23rd time, I want you to believe that you can win this one. And that's that. That is the ability to continue to overcome not only adversity, but the mental challenge in your head that when you've experienced some failure, you experienced some defeats that you, that's going to define you going forward. And I thought that was a great, uh, uh, exercise, a great way to help the kids too. I thought that was good.
Speaker 3:When you're on your way to being a champion, I think you have to be willing to suspend objective reality. And, and if you take me down 22 times in a row, well you're probably better than me probably. But if I can suspend that objective reality and get one in my mind, I'm better than you. I'm better than you. I'd be, I took it out at one time. I'm better than you. All those other 22, you kind of got[inaudible]
Speaker 5:and maybe I was
Speaker 3:just dumb enough to believe that or had enough ego to believe that. But you know, when I learned, I learned this move called the low single. And once I got this movie, it was like a new toy. And I really, I literally felt like I had got a superpower. Like, I can do this whenever I want to anybody. Right. And so I was John Smith. Yes. And I was constantly looking for ways to practice my superpower. And I had got so much belief in it that, um, and I worked out as a freshman in college, I worked out with our, you know, with this 167 pounder. I worked out with a 174 pounds and 151 26 as a freshman. And I got a lot of weight. I roasted one 35 as a senior in high school. So two years later, I still rustling one 26. So I cut a lot of weight. I coach Oliver, I have a coach that I still talk to now, the coach me, and you know, he says, don't make your sons cut weight. You know, you got enough weight for all of them.
Speaker 5:[inaudible] right.
Speaker 3:They had enough weight. So I would work out with these guys and they would just beat me, batting me around like a little puppy dog. And they were kind to me. They didn't hurt me, but they were just schooling me. But I literally was so had so much self efficacy in this one shot that I'm going gonna get it, I'm gonna get the next one. I'm a guy, I don't care how many times you're taking me. Right. And get it. If I could get one take down, it gets 167 pounds. Why can be it? Anybody my weight and wow. And uh,
Speaker 2:that's a, that's a, um, uh, a mental focus to decision this. Uh, this, uh, um, I forgot the term you used. Objective suspending objectives, objective, reality, objective, reality, objective reality. That, so how do you do that?
Speaker 3:Uh, well, I fell in love with wrestling. Okay. And, um, I fell in love with this move and I fell in love with the style and I fell in love with the idea of being, um, important and I wanted significance. There's a whole reasons, a lot of reasons why I chose to be good at wrestling. Um, but it happened to have nothing really to do with wrestling is more about like just search of significance.
Speaker 2:And that's true for everybody and know. Yeah. I mean everybody thinks identity in a sense of wholeness in their life. Right. And some people find it, some people don't find it. What I'm wondering about, because I don't think I am in sports. I love, obviously it wasn't the athlete you are, but I'm wondering about how you, how you dealt with your own anxiety because I'm going to span this out. The leadership and mental, the mental toughness. And I love your definition and I'm going to read you a definition or concept about mitral chef skin in a minute. But I love your definition about whipping anxiety. Really love being able to do it on domain that now that wouldn't have had any residents in the 80s cause we didn't have anything that was on demand.[inaudible] today we go, Oh yeah, yeah. You know that you can whip it on demand. That's incredible. But were you able to when you were, because you were a champion twice? Like, like I think if you're out there and you're not as someone who played sports or whatever, it's hard to win. I remember just playing high school, we played a team called Grandville and the season twice we beat them. We were, they had only lost I think two games the whole season went through the tournament beat everybody, played them again and the championship of the tournament and lost simply because we could not sustain. We just saw him and we were like, uh, seriously again. It's hard to be people more than once. And I think this idea about anxiety isn't a lot of leaders, people who run startups, people who live life. I know I talked to students that get over academics. Did you identify your anxiety when you were growing up and be able to say, okay, I know how to tackle it.
Speaker 3:So I've told this story so many times. It goes way back to when I was little. I first started wrestling before I even can remember wrestling. Okay. Um, I was pretty good and my dad worked with me a little bit and it wasn't near like it is today. Just wrestling was just different. Like we were seasonal Russell for the YMCA. Uh, my dad was one of the coaches. My uncle was a coach. Um, my cousins were on the team. It was just, it was part of the culture, especially in des Moines, Iowa at the time when I was, when I was a little under 10, eight, eight, six, seven, eight, five, six, seven, eight years old. And I won because, um, I dunno, I had, I don't know if I used call the ability, but I could, I knew my body pretty well for, for a little guy and uh, um, you know, little kids wrestling. So when I got to the fourth grade, I think was the first time I actually lost a match. So I rustled from like kindergarten to fourth grade one everything and would pin everybody to oh wow. The headlock, which is our funny, I'm not a headlock guy. Funny the guy get the head like[inaudible] and using a headlock is the funny part. So, so, uh, lost my first match. I lost this guy named David Keel Guard and he pinned me and he was a second grader. Whoa. And he pinned me and I'd never[inaudible] never been beat. And my dad was like, you got beat by a second grader. And I was so like, um, emotionally wrecked and that the, my father Kinda gave me a hard time about it. I was, I don't want Russell, I'm done. Oh Russell. And I basically didn't Russell til seventh grade. So fourth through seventh grade didn't Russell, I got to the middle school and I was better than the other kids cause none of them had rustled as little kids. And I still dealt with tremendous anxiety, high school, freshman, sophomore year, tremendous anxiety. I would find ways to lose. And I wanted to please my father. I wanted to please my coaches. And it was very old school coaching and I came from quote unquote, a good program and quote unquote had quote unquote good coaches. Um, they weren't bad coaches. They wouldn't be what I consider really good coaches cause they weren't awesome communicators. And to me it's about, I have to be able to communicate what's in my brain. And then your brain, I have to use the right motive and the right action for motivation to get you to do what I want you to do. And the things that I know will get you to a higher level, right? So they would say things like, hey, great and get tough. And I'm like, I don't know how I don't tell me how to get tough, be more specific please. Um, and they'd say, Hey, move your feet. And I say, you weren't moving my feet like this. You want me to feel like that? I don't tell you how to move my feet being specific. And so I, one of the ways I coach, I try to coach like I wanted to be coached. Oh boy. Like be specific with me, you know, tell me exactly what you mean. I'm not that gifted. I'm not Magellan. I didn't wake up knowing how to do this stuff. Nobody knows how to drive a car when they're born. We have to learn this and you need to learn the process. And I'm like, you, I probably wasn't tough enough. Didn't come from a tough enough environment, element, daily basis to just be one of those hard-nosed kids actually. Yeah. It was not hard dosed. And so, um, my mother of all people was, she saw me struggling. She saw me struggling to make waves. She saw me losing matches that I should, when she saw me, I would get to the finish line literally and trip and somebody else would win. And um, that's a metaphor. But that's, I did that on the mat. Understood. Constantly. And uh, I remembered the state term and I got beat out at the state term my sophomore year by a kid that I could beat, had beaten before he'd beaten me. But I kinda just rustled soft. Yes. And they both were like, like, like boy Schwab was that right? And both of my parents were tough enough to say that wasn't good enough. What was that? Yeah, you're just like a wimp. Right. And some moms, my, my wife won't say that to my kids. Yeah. You know, I'll say it. Sure. But my wife won't say it. And I think it's easier when the mom will say it. I would agree. When your mom's gonna go, when your mom's going to hold you accountable. My mom did. You're not, you don't have any place to hide. But yeah. So I didn't really have a place to hide, but she was willing to help. She was my mother. My mother is probably the best coach I've ever had. She's brilliant. She was on, she was anchorwoman 25 years on an Omaha TV hitting really a sharp lady. And so she went and sat in the bookstore and sat there for an hour and read through all these motivational books. And she picked out the book that was for me. And I happened to have a shoulder surgery from football at the time. I was very Phrygia lay, that's French for fragile jails. And, uh, so I got hurt and I was in the hospital. I had opened, uh, uh, uh, inpatient surgery for my shoulder. She bought me this book. It was the first book. I was a junior high school. The first book that it's embarrassing that I ever willingly read cover to cover. I think there are a lot of kids out there listening that would relate to you completely. I mean, you know, when you're in school, you just read enough to get the assignment done. Or I did some adventure, choose your own adventure books. Those were cool, but I was not a reader and I am now, but I was not then. And I read this book and then was like, how do they know so much about me? Oh Wow. And it gave me some practical things to do to work on my mental toughness to work on quote unquote, mental tough to work on my emotional control to work on. Beautiful in the book, the guy who's really has been a mentor without ever meeting. And the guy for me for years, his name is James Lee, or he wrote the book, um, this whole concept of your ideal performance state became like my mantra and how to find my ideal performance state. And it was just as lethal as my low single. Right. So now I have this book and all these mental tools and I have this new found skill and I started working a lot harder. And then I started having these leaps in athleticism. Like I got stronger and faster than I'd never been. And then I'm like almost like, wow, what can I do with this? And, and I made some like decisions, I'm, I'm done losing. It wasn't like I want to win this x type, I wanna, I wanna stop losing what I want to do. I don't want to lose anymore to anybody ever. Wow. Which is a lot of pressure too, because until I was probably 30 some years old, I had to be the toughest guy in every I was in. Yeah. Which is not necessarily healthy, but you've already achieved that in this room. Okay. I appreciate it with me. I knew that when I walked in. But you want to be the one to bring it up. So, no, but this like I'm discovering that stuff all at the same,
Speaker 2:you know, I think that's a key word you just used. Like when I'm listening to you talk, I go, okay. And I was her super reader. Right. But I didn't, the thing that's the thing that I see about you and you know, stone probably had what you had too is even though you stopped wrestling from fourth grade to seventh grade, you're, your reasoning behind it was, it sounds like to some degree you were, I mean, you were very young. You are still discovering yourself, but what your mother did is she helped you discover who you were and what you're basically saying. You said, uh, uh, emotional control. And I, you know, I think I still have trouble with that and I'm long out of high school. But it, that's a tremendous definition for mental toughness and probably makes mental toughness, uh, a bit of a cliche and that what you're really talking about is the capacity to know yourself well enough to control yourself under anxious and difficult times. And here's an interesting quote I'll be, I'll be interested to see what you, you think about it. Microcephaly in the book that Jay Billis wrote called developing true strength on and off the court. Uh, said we may be born into a great family situation or a difficult family situation that forces or conditions you to be tough, but we aren't born that way. Toughness comes from how you handle your experiences, what you learn from them and how you're guided through them, by others in your life. And of course I would put your mom down under there as, as others in your life and that, that and your dad obviously too. Um, but it seems to me that part of your, if I think you develop leaders, so let me just get that out there. When you're working with these kids, whether or not they go on to lead two people, 20 people, 200 people that are just themselves, I think you lead, you develop leaders appreciate that. Um, and so I think sometimes the, and I talked to guys, silicon valley about this who run companies. They, they, they didn't come from a sports background or athletic background. And I, and I tell them, you're missing something about leadership because a lot of what I feel like I learned about leadership internally and most of it unfortunately I figured out after I was done plan cause I went back and reflected and said, why wasn't I better in certain situations? And it's because I didn't have some of the maturity inside that other guys I played with. Did. And talent is always a factor. But I think that not having, if you don't have emotional control, you can't harness your talent. Would that be correct?
Speaker 3:I agree. 1000%. This quote by, by uh, by coach, she said she said he was Jeff Ski just as Husky. He, uh, reminds me a lot of Mike Denny. Um, my, my college coach, he's still coaching at the University of Maryville. He's 72. Wow. I believe. Um, I always tell stories about coach Danny and he gets greater every time I tell this story, he's like, it gets taller, easier as hair, it gets darker. He gets younger. But, uh, uh, coach daily between my mother and coach Danny and my father, um, coaches like a second father to me. I mean, it's really deep and I still get a text from coach Danny every day. You're kidding. Every day, every day. Well, I'm not the only one, so 89 people in this text chain, but consistently, and I'm glad to be one of the 89 slowly and a, it's a motivational thing. Like I could even read you what he sent today. He's, he's, he's very consistent. What does coach did? Okay. Success follows those teams and individuals that are willing to fight for every inch of improvement. Those that are willing to do a hundred things, 1% better coach. Wow. So, I mean, and it goes on and on 1% better every day. So I don't know, I was just talking to some of my colleagues today. Like I think that for you to be a great leader, you have to have been a good follower at some time in your life. That's beautiful. And, um, I know when I lead and my son will point this out about my own coaching and I, whenever your kids tell you something about yourself, it's like, oh Geez, it's embarrassing, but it's like putting a mirror up to your face. And he says, you don't like that kid cause he won't conform. I'm like, how do you know that about me and stuff? But you're right, you need to conform a kid. And because we're trying to go this way and I know where we're going and you need to get on board because I have the vision and um, obviously we're not trying to stamp out any individualism, but we all gotta be on the same page if we're going to have success. And so I had a lot of practice with coach Danny and he set a standard of excellence that is still relevant in my life every day. Um, I think sometimes it causes me problems cause I expect things to be like coach Denny would have them be coach Denny. Yeah. I can't feel coached in these shoes. Um, I don't have coach Denny's. Uh, uh, what's the word? My Guy, Steven, a, uh, Smith's used to Stephen[inaudible], Stephen A. Smith, he says he's a cache. I don't have the cache. Okay. That coach Denny has. But, uh, I want to be coached in Ian's in a lot of ways. And I think everybody that competed for coach to any wants to be him in some sort of way. And so, um, the bay area is not Nebraska and anywhere else in the Midwest. Um, and so things don't work like that here, but the standard of excellence is still there. And that was, that's all.
Speaker 2:And it sounds like what you're trying to do, and I want to take a little bit of a break if you can stay around a little bit longer. Sure. Uh, but just to give us a standup break, but it sounds like what you're trying to do is bring all of the richness of mom and dad, uh, two or three coaches in your life, Denny being be important. The, I grew up in Midwest to the Midwest. There's a Midwest culture. It still exists today and I think it's misunderstood generally in the west coast. A completely, they did this long. I mean we could get into a whole talk about that, but you're trying to bring that, interpret that and communicate that to kids here. And when I, when I was, I was home not long ago, uh, bringing, bringing my mom out and um, I was talking to some of my friends about how it is they're in coll, uh, high schools, sports and college sports and they said it's changed, you know, because obviously the, the coaching culture is changing. You don't say or do some of the things maybe you used to say or do. Um, but the culture of, of it, of sports in the Midwest to me was part of community and it was how you knew people. It's how you made friends. And even I didn't play baseball, but I would go down to the softball diamond or the baseball diamond and where they had all the little league games cause all my friends, brothers and sisters would be playing. I live like a walk from it. I dribble my basketball everywhere. So I dribbled down and I just sat there and talked to my friends and watch it. It wasn't about we're playing baseball, it was about this our community. I went, I went to stone, doesn't even know this. I went to a number of wrestling matches in my school cause I was sports editor from this paper. So I would write about wrestling, which was I had to learn about it and we had really good wrestling teams. Uh, and I was like, I could never do it. I used to be getting ready for practice and I'd see, um, Jeff van Scotter, he was one of our all state guys trying to cut weight, had this plastic thing all on him. He's trying to sweat, he's limerick lemons. And I'm like, I'm like, you know what I said to myself, I, I could never play that sport because I, I just don't think I could bring myself to do it. You know? And when I hear you talk, I think there's so much, and I hope the kids that you work with know this, there's so much you're trying to package and communicate about a culture of sports that is more than about even winning or whatever. It's about family. And when I hear you talk, I hear you talking about family. When I hear you talking about your son, you're talking about family and, and to me that great leaders come out of those environments. And I then when I was reading about this and, and I, and I, and I, and I, I kinda recommend that book for you, although I don't know that you would learn as much as you might be aggravated by some of the things he gets wrong. Uh, but the, the, the thing he says here about, he called it toughness, developing true strength on and off the court. I think that comes a little bit closer to the insights and awareness and philosophy you have is a giving somebody the internal toughness to be able to do what they need to do when that anxiety and fear jumps on them on demand. So next time around I want to talk when we take a break, I want to talk about how you look at developing leaders from that mindset of coaching. Meaning coaching leaders. I know that's not what you don't go into a um, you know, a Facebook and coach up the developer, the, the product managers. But you could, I was going to say you could and so I think they took a look at that and if we decided to get crazy, maybe we'll talk a little about politics and about why, why certain people crumble and other people don't crumble. Not that you have to talk about anything political because I watched some political leaders, they wilt underneath the pressure and others tend to stay on. I mostly think others are from the 60s in the, in the old days. But there's a lot I think we could learn from you about how do you sustain it, how do you keep going? Why do I have a lot to learn about having a thick skin as well as one of the reasons that I would never go into politics. I, I'm, I'm used to adulation. And the fact that you're using them, it shows your intelligence that you wouldn't go into politics. That's just sheer Bruton until, yeah, you gotta be tough for that. And I don't know if I have that type of toughness, but, uh, well, why do it when you can do it? You do. I mean, I was more fun to do this. Well, and you change lives. I can tell. I can tell you the names of all my coaches starting with Mr Eastwood and seventh grade. I can tell you, ms Mr. Vaughn, when I was on football team, I can tell you every coach I ever had and the impact they had on me as some of them didn't know what they were doing. And, but still it was like I learned to follow. Thanks a lot. Ramen. We'll go into the second session and just a little bit and talk more about leadership specifically. Awesome. Thank you.